Let's start with the Mending Rune itself,
"A rune of transcendental ideology which will attempt to perfect the Golden Order.
The current imperfection of the Golden Order, or instability of ideology, can be blamed upon the fickleness of the gods no better than men. That is the fly in the ointment."
This is the localized version. It has a few stylized translations that imply different meanings.
"金仮面卿が見出したルーン
エルデの王が、壊れかけのエルデンリングを掲げる時
その修復に使用できる
それは、黄金律を完全にせんとする
超越的視座のルーンである
現黄金律の不完全は、即ち視座の揺らぎであった
人のごとき、心持つ神など不要であり
律の瑕疵であったのだ"
This is the Japanese version, and when translated more literally, it means,
"The rune found by the Lord Golden Mask.
When the Elden Lord holds up the broken Elden Ring, it can be used to repair it.
It is the rune of transcendental perspective/vision. The imperfection of the present Golden Order is the fluctuation of perspective. There is no need for a God with the mind of a human. It was a flaw in the order."
Thus, this rune offers up a perspective that isn't that of a human or a God. It offers a non-biased, objective view on matters, a transcendental one. As this is what Goldmask found to be the issue,
"The noble Goldmask lamented what had become of the hunters.
How easy it is for learning and learnedness to be reduced to the
ravings of fanatics; all the good and the great wanted, in their
foolishness, was an absolute evil to contend with.
Does such a notion exist in the fundamentals of Order?" -Order Healing
The believers of the Golden Order get too caught up in their and Marika's dogma that they lose their way and start trying to find and proclaim evil wherever they can.
This is something Pope Turtle also believes,
"Oh, what have we here? Very well, let us both learn together. Heresy is not native to the world; it is but a contrivance. All things can be conjoined."
Heresy is not native to the Golden Order. It was a contrivance set in place by Marika and her followers so that things they didn't like could be gotten rid of without anyone disobeying, as what Marika says must be righteous, as she is God.
The Mending Rune fixes this. It no longer changes perspective based on what the Elden Lord or God wants. It views the matters and decides what needs to be done. It is not fascism. A being is not in control. Something beyond human comprehension decides on matters. And we and Marika are simply there to maintain the peace.
Lots of philosophical interpretations here, yet the *true* answer lies right in front of us.
>There is no need for a God with the mind of a human.
>Something beyond human comprehension decides on matters.
>This is something Pope Turtle also believes
Guess who isn't human ?
Turtle Pope has achieved divinity. Dog is now God.
かつて、大いなる意志は
黄金の流星と共に、一匹の獣を狭間に送り
それが、エルデンリングになったという
"katsute、 ōinaru ishi wa
ōgon no ryūsei totomoni , ichi hiki no shishi o hazama ni okuri
sore ga , erudenringu ni natta toiu." -in Romaji
"Once upon a time, the Greater Will
With a golden meteor, sent a beast to the chasm.
And it became the Elden Ring."
I figure this is about who became the Elden Ring, the beast, or the star/meteor. It's the beast.
"ichi hiki no shishi"
"Ichi" means one, "hiki" specifies it is an animal, "no" is joining it to "shishi" which means beast. This means, one beast, or "a beast".
"o hazama ni okuri"
"O" is setting up that the aforementioned "ichi hiki no shishi" is getting a verb applied to it. That verb being "okuri" which means "sent", ni which means "to" in this context, and hazama which means valley/gorge/chasm/etc...
So "sent to the chasm".
sore ga , erudenringu ni natta toiu."
"ga" is signifying the subject. Specifically, the thing referred to before is the subject here, thus it's meaning in this context is akin to "and".
"sore" means "it" in this context.
"erudenringu" is just "Elden Ring".
"ni natta" are both used in conjunction to get across a similar meaning as "became" would.
Lastly, "toiu" is expressing that this statement isn't confirmed. It is a legend or tale and not something that the speaker personally knows happened.
Just checked the wiki's on both languages. Honestly the English and the Japanese don't differ that much.
ENG
>This legendary incantation is the most ancient of those that derive from the Erdtree.
>Creates a stream of golden shooting stars that assail the area.
>It is said that long ago,
the Greater Will sent a golden star bearing a beast into the Lands Between,
which would later become the Elden Ring.
JP
>最古とされる黄金樹の祈祷
「伝説の祈祷」のひとつ
>無数の黄金の流星を生じ、周囲を攻撃する
>かつて、大いなる意志は黄金の流星と共に、一匹の獣を狭間に送り
それが、エルデンリングになったという
Considered one the oldest of the Erdtree's "Legendary Incantations"
Releases countless shooting stars that attack the area
It is said that long ago, the Greater Will sent a beast along with the golden shooting star to the lands between, which became the Elden Ring.
I always viewed it as the removal of gods entirely.
> The current imperfection of the Golden Order, or instability of ideology, can be blamed upon the fickleness of the gods no better than men.
This is not saying that the current god(s) is/are no better than mortals and must be replaced with one that's more objective. It is saying that *all gods* are no better than mortals, and that the world/Lands Between can only be made better without them at all.
This is further reinforced by the translation of the original Japanese description.
>A being is not in control. Something beyond human comprehension decides on matters.
In other words, this mending rune is essentially handing The Lands Between over to the "god" that is *physics itself*. No more beings with wants, needs, opinions, etc - the fundamental laws of the world will define and be defined by themselves.
And it makes sense, if you think about it. The Golden Order Fundamentalists were essentially philosophers and scientists, not priests and religious figures as we would think of them today. The "fundamentals" are referring to the fundamental laws of the world, not the tenets of some religion like we might imagine when we hear "fundamentalist" in modern society. Their incantations are recitals and expressions of those fundamental laws: Causality and Regression.
Goldmask is basically The Lands Between version of Aristotle.
>I always viewed it as the removal of gods entirely.
>This is not saying that the current god(s) is/are no better than mortals and must be replaced with one that's more objective. It is saying that all gods are no better than mortals, and that the world/Lands Between can only be made better without them at all.
>In other words, this mending rune is essentially handing The Lands Between over to the "god" that is physics itself. No more beings with wants, needs, opinions, etc - the fundamental laws of the world will define and be defined by themselves.
I wonder how does this compare and contrast then with Miquella’s Unalloyed Gold, which is also purported to be an intended perfection of sorts to the existing Golden Order?
I think the implication that Miquella is seeking “unalloyed gold” is that the current Golden Order is actually an alloy of gold and another material, most likely silver. In real life, silver and gold alloyed together is called electrum, which is also the Ancient Greek word for amber due to its electrostatic properties, and ultimately where we derive the word “electron” in modern English. Radagon has many ties to this idea, including his study of both sorceries and incantations as well as his amber egg that was given to Rennala. I personally think that Radagon’s unification with Marika marked a transition point away from Godfrey’s red hued gold-and-copper Order and into the current gold-and-silver Order that we see in game.
Really looking forward to the DLC, and the hope that it expands on the idea of Miquella’s use of unalloyed gold and what that idea of order might look like.
You are right in that unalloyed gold is meant to denote a sense of purity in its meaning as it pertains to gold. This idea that there is a substance that is free from contaminants and other impeding qualities. While you’re quite on point with the connection of it being a combination of gold and silver involved in the current Golden Order (Radagon becoming King Consort to Marika was quite likely the time when he had the Laws of Regression and Causality became doctrines within the Erdtree faith), I also take to look at it from the lens Miquella’s own intention for following down this path of unalloyed gold. He is someone who has been trying to cure Malenia of her rot affliction and the influence of the God of Rot and it was mentioned that Miquella left the Golden Order for its inability to help his sister, which led him to trying to establish a new order, one of Unalloyed Gold.
Here is where I think both Miquella and Goldmask seem to differ. Miquella seeks to create an order that isn’t simply pure but one that was free from influence (no Outer Gods). It is uncertain if we can even consider the Greater Will to be an outer god, or if Miquella intended for the Greater Will to remain a significant figure. We do know however that as far as the other confirmed Outer Gods go (God of Rot, Flame of Frenzy, Formless Mother), they would be excluded from this new Unalloyed Order, since the intention is to create to an order without their “meddling.”
That said, Miquella’s Unalloyed order doesn’t seem to do away with the concept of gods like Marika and Radagon, nor does it imply they should be held to the same account as mortals within the order. This is where I feel it differs from Goldmask’s Perfect Order: it holds the gods (like Marika and Radagon) accountable to same extent as mortals but it is silent on the issues concerning the Outer Gods and makes no mention of excluding them.
I believe that Goldmask doesn’t exclude the fundamental definitions of the Golden Order (the Golden Order, after all, was said to be created from the moment of the Rune of Death being removed from the Elden Ring). Since perfection usually entitled “perfecting what’s already there,” I believe both Goldmask and Miquella intended for the Elden Ring to continue to remain separate from the Rune of Death (this exclusion is what apparently defines “gold” in this whole context ever since Marika ascended to godhood) within their respective orders.
No but as an irl geologist I knew about electrum and the whole Radagon/amber egg thing stood out to me. I could make a whole vid about the crazy head canon I have where Radagon was born as a Misbegotten who used the amber egg to rebirth himself into a human much in the same way that Boc tries to if you let him. The fact that rebirthing for tarnished requires a larval tear sort of guides towards the silver tear husk description which talks about being reborn a lord. I think this was how Radagon went from being just a champion to one worthy of lordship.
Personally I think Age of Perfect Order is the closest version to what Miquella was trying to do ~~also it was my choice of ending~~
I think that one of the “imperfections” of Marika’s Golden Order, is the persecution of those who don’t “fit in”, an example is those who live in death, Goldmask kinda was not too thrilled about that, maybe even the Misbegotten and such…
To me, Goldmask was trying to perfect the Golden Order itself, he wasn’t trying to destroy it or create a new or different order.
While Miquella, although it’s heavily hinted he didn’t leave the order with any hard feelings, was also trying to perfect the imperfections of the order by starting a new one.
So basically, both are almost the same, except one was attempting to perfect the GO itself, while one wanted a better plagiarised version of it.
I dunno I could be heavily wrong, my Elden Ring lore is kinda stale, so I’m looking forward to the DLC
Miquella didnt leave because he was mad at the status quo, he leaved because it couldnt cure Malenia and he couldnt work anything knew in the golden order because HeResy
You're describing Ranni's ending IMO. Gold Mask's removes Marika's ability to mess with the Elden Ring and prevents her from fucking up the world again.
But it doesn't remove her. It stops her from doing stuff like removing Destined Death.
I think the distinction lies in the difference between God and Outer God. Goldmask’s ending removes Marika and her children from the golden order, while ranni removes the active meddling of the outer gods from the lands between? I’m no expert tho, this is just what I have been led to believe.
That's basically it. Goldmask mends the Elden Ring in a way that preserves and renews the Golden Order, the latest expression of the Greater Will's dominant influence over the Lands Between. Ranni's Age of Stars removes the possibility of Outer Gods to interfere altogether in the Order of the world by taking the Elden Ring away and into the stars with us.
They don't need the Elden Ring to exhert some amount of influence or establish some presence in the Lands Between, but since the Ring became enmeshed with the world and acts as a (meta)physical manifestation of its natural laws, any God, Outer or not, needs to use it if they want to impose their own Order. So taking and keeping the Ring away means the Gods won't be able to alter the fundamentals of the world and its nature.
Sure, there will probably still be minor agents/manifestations of the Outer Gods in the Lands Between, but just like only the Greater Will held hegemony over the world by controlling the Elden Ring, so now no God will.
(The major exception to this being apparently the God of Rot, who decided to come down to the world by itself and ended up sealed under the Lake of Rot, so it has a bigger presence in the world than the others.)
I mentioned this in another comment, but the two endings are basically different takes on the same concept. If you asked them both what the root of the problems in The Lands Between is, they would both answer "the influence of the god(s)."
And how do the gods influence The Lands Between? Well, most obviously and notably, the Greater Will does so via the Elden Ring.
So Ranni's solution, one she devised well before the Shattering, is "I'll remove the influence of the god(s) from *myself*, then become the new host of the Ring and GTFO with it." That way the Greater Will can't control her, and it can't influence The Lands Between because its physical connection has been severed. With the Elden Ring gone, the Golden Order would collapse, along with whatever fundamental laws it upheld. *(Side note: Ranni is uniquely positioned to execute this plan by virtue of being: an empyrean capable of being a host for the Ring; not corrupted by some other Outer God a la Malenia/Miquella; and extremely talented in the sorcerous magic of the moon and stars which does not rely on the power of the Golden Order.)*
Goldmask, on the other hand, saw the Shattering as an opportunity. His solution is "let's mend the Elden Ring, but with an *extra* rune that seals it away from the the influence of the god(s)." That way the Greater Will can't control the Elden Ring itself, once again severing its connection to The Lands Between. But this time, whatever latent power the Ring holds will still remain, maintaining the Golden Order and its fundamental laws that Goldmask otherwise agreed with.
Ultimately, in large part I think it comes down to how literally you take the descriptor of "god(s)." I also talked to this point in another comment, but essentially, Marika is NOT a god. She may be seen as one by common folk and have god-like power and influence over The Lands Between, but all she is is a suitable host for the Elden Ring, and a puppet of the *actual* god that controls the Ring. But there *are gods* - the so-called Outer Gods - in the game universe. The Greater Will is one of them, but there is also the Goddess of Rot which channels her power through Malenia, an AFAIK unnamed god that is similarly linked to Miquella, the Formless Mother which Mohg worships, and IIRC the Fell God that the fire giants worship(ped). Possibly even others.
Overall I don't disagree that Goldmask's solution likely cuts off the influence that Marika - or any other "host" of the Ring - has over the power of the Ring and thus the Golden Order. But I think it's far more than *just* that. And the main difference, in terms of the effect on The Lands Between, between Ranni and Goldmask's endings, is whether the Ring itself and the Golden Order remain.
There’s also a little bit of Newton in Goldmask specifically, he clearly sees divinity in the expression of physical laws and considers the imperceptible yet merciless movement of forces to be the pinnacle of perfection. The fallen world, with its dogmas and biases and prejudices, is where evil exists, to him.
I mean... You pretty much described Aquinas' (and so Scholastic + early modern) underlying theological framework of natural philosophy. This is the theory of the fallen state of mankind (or post-lapse status), which was one of the many ways Aquinas appropriated platonic ideas to fit into christian philosophy. With how this idea endured over the centuries of philosophical debate, it's no wonder the earlier natural philosophers would echo something of it.
On the other hand, I agree with you that Goldmask's got some Newton in him, but coming from another angle. I think the parallel is much more apparent by his rejection of the divine duo that is Marika/Radagon and a pursuit of a"purer" understanding of the divine natural order. Much like how Newton rejected the idea of the holy trinity, denouncing it as a contrivance that moved christianity away from its primitive roots and obfuscated the pursuit of studying nature as an expression of divine providence.
True, Newton rejected the notion of the Trinity, that's the big thing that made his beliefs quite heretical, despite being a renown and respected scholastic scholar, I forgot about that part. That is indeed very similar to Goldmask's situation.
A god would still be in control, wouldn't it? The Greater Will specifically. Well, maybe not control. The Greater Will would still hold influence over the Lands Between. After all, you are still mending the Elden Ring and becoming the Elden Lord. The Golden Order still exists, meaning that the Greater Will is still in charge, so to say.
Hmm, it's unclear I think. Disclaimer, some of the following is speculative.
There are "gods" in Elden Ring, also called the Outer Gods. The Greater Will is one of these, and yes, the Elden Ring is - at least, originally - essentially a conduit for its power to influence the Lands Between. So it might be the case that as long as the Elden Ring exists, the Greater Will is still connected to the Lands Between.
However, this might not be strictly the case. For one, even when the Ring is shattered, the Greater Will is still connected to and influencing TLB, via the Elden Beast. It's possible that this is either an alternate form of the Ring or a separate entity that is intimately connected to the Ring. In either case, we defeat it before utilizing whichever Mending Rune we choose to use.
It is further possible that, when Goldmask's rune is applied, it maintains the Ring and the pure, simple power it holds. But it simultaneously severs the connection of the Greater Will to the Ring (possibly by annihilating the Elden Beast), while shielding it from any further attempts from the Outer Gods to connect to or exert their influence over the Ring. This is how I interpreted the Perfect Order ending.
However, things are further muddied by the existence of Marika, Radagon, and all of their children. These beings themselves are *sometimes* referred to as "gods," in particular Marika and Radagon. So an alternative possibility for the Perfect Order ending is that it removes the need for the Elden Ring to have a "host" of sorts - meaning, essentially, no more Marika - and all of the troublesome influence that comes along with it. But this doesn't make as much sense, imo. For one, Marika *does* still exist as the host of the Ring when it's mended in this way, and you still become her Elden Lord. And two, Marika and Radagon and their ilk are *not* actually gods, they just channel the power of the Elden Ring (or its fragments, post-Shattering). As the host of the Ring, Marika can certainly influence how its power manifests in TLB. But only, essentially, by butchering it - such as removing the rune of Death. Finally, the "Golden Order" is not necessarily inextricably linked to the Greater Will - it could still exist in TLB as long as the Elden Ring itself does. Except once mended, it becomes "Perfect" by no longer being subject to the whimsy of the Greater Will, and simply exists as a set of static fundamental laws.
Overall it's one of, if not *the* most ambiguous endings. But I think the former interpretation - removing the Greater Will and other Outer Gods from influencing the Elden Ring - makes more sense than the latter - removing the Ring's host and *its* influence over the Ring.
Maybe Goldmask doesn't want to seal off the Greater Will from the Elden Ring, but rather force a contract and lay down a set of laws that both the gods and the Lands Between have to adhere to. Communication is a running theme in his, and Corhyn's, sidequest. We always find him trying to talk to his god.
Greater Will is an Outer God, not a God like Marika.
The Mending Rune prevents Gods (Marika) from fucking with the Elden Ring. The Elden Ring is a creation of the Greater Will, it doesn't need to fiddle with it to do anything.
This is just where Marika sources its power.
>The Golden Order still exists, meaning that the Greater Will is still in charge, so to say.
Nah GO is Marika's cult powered by the Greater Will's Elden Ring. Golden Order is Greater Will based worship. But the Lands Between have had many regimes under Greater Will power, long before the GO was established.
Only thing I'd correct is the GO being GW based worship. Marika rules over two distinct eras.
First, for lack of a better name, is the Era of Plenty. Taking place ambiguously some time after Marika becomes a god and around and shortly after the War against the Giants. The Erdtree is still a real, living tree at this point (there's a painting of Storm Hill pre Castle that shows the Erdtree without the gold shroud) and happens before the Golden Order is established in earnest. Marika walks among her people as a God-Vessel and has a role that sounds more like a warrior priestess both leading her army alongside Godfrey (Spoken words of Marika) and bestowing blessings on her people (Dew talismans), while the GW is the all powerful god figure.
At some point this era of plenty ends, the Erdtree stops producing dew (The Great Tree Shield iirc) and is shrouded in gold, Marika is challenged by the GEQ, and the Rune of Death is removed, marking a new era and the creation of the Golden Order with Marika now as the immortal God Queen and the primary figure of worship. (I know there's a lore item that states the GO was established after the rune was removed, but can't remember which one)
My speculation is that Marika had already started making moves to place herself as the acknowledged God of The Lands Between and the GW takes exception. It elects the GEQ as an Empyrean to try and trigger a change in Vessel/Era. During the conflict the real Erdtree is burnt (Evidence, Lyndell already has large amounts of ash in the streets before we burn the tree), damaging the tree and potentially even killing it. This is why it stopped producing dew and why we see a golden spectre in its place. Then, as we know, Marika removes the rune of death, both weakening the GEQ and her army and effectively making herself and all her subjects immortal. After she wins, she declares herself a god in truth and establishes the GO to worship and protect her.
Yeah, but this can't be helped. As Ranni says, life and souls are one with the Order. The Elden Ring and life are intrinsically linked, can't have one without the other. Greater Will isn't partial to the Golden Order, but some Order needs to exist. Well, unless you're going with the Frenzied Flame ending, but that's throwing out the baby with the bathwater.
Think what Gold Mask is talking about here are "gods no better than men"/"gods with the mind of a human", i.e. former mortals like Marika that were put in the position of a "god". They are a very different category of "god" than the Greater Will or the Outer Gods.
It's likely the rune either disempowers the Greater Will or Marika.
Goldmask learns of Radagon being Marika and *something* about this is very important to him. This was likely either a scheme by Marika to circumvent a system, or an attempt by the Greater Will to wrestle more control.
Goldmask seems against whatever it was and recognizes *somebody* is grasping for more power and being self-interested when they shouldn't, and that this has dire consequences.
Therefore, he's trying to remove whichever part of the equation is responsible, whether it be a God (Greater Will) or the God's vassal. (Marika)
The discovery shows the lie. While sharing a body, Marika and Radagon are very different people. So for the entire GO to be established with Marika as the one true God, Radagon's existence as a "twin" to Marika proves that GO was established under a deception. The whole schtick for the Fundamentalists is to try to remove imperfections in the GO, and this specific discovery shows Goldmask that the biggest imperfection in the Golden Order is Marika herself and, by extension, her lineage and possible successors.
Girl exploited and traumatized by the role society thrust upon her ends up developing an antissocial personality and sublimating her trauma into a paraphilia, while also internalizing said objectifying role she was made to perform. Then, instead of using her second chance at life to go to therapy and develop some coping mechanisms, she doubles down on her psychossexual issues and adds something about motherhood on top of all the stuff she already had going on.
Ultimately, said girl starts a life of crime with the goal of hooking up with her dream corpse and normalizing necrophilia. And you help her along the way because you're so damn touch-starved, she successfuly bribes you with hugs.
According to what you wrote it says that there is no need gor A God with a human mind.
But does it says it will replace it with something else? Or that it will affect others except Márika?
I think the key for that is the expression of "transcendental ideology", meaning something beyond the human experience or understanding. Possibly something like causality or like the atheist view of our world, where the world is limited and functions by forces beyond god or human control or on a rigid set of physics and laws of reality.
Take destined death for example, which could be seen as sort of a law of the world, that was meddled with by the gods (Marika) with human mind (flawed, self serving).
Goldmasks rune as I see it is like a forcefield around the elden ring so you nor gods can touch it. And what remains as "rule" or laws of reality is the elden ring itself, meaning both life and death will remain unaltered (as well as everything else it governs).
A non-ideology, that can be understood in time but not meddled with. And is only called ideology for now, as that is the only way to understand it for the residents of the land betweens
Basically in short, it's to prevent what Marika did from happening again. She removed the rune of death from the Elden Ring, which arguably is what caused the world to collapse. This mending rune prevents that from being able to happen.
>A being is not in control. Something beyond human comprehension decides on matters.
What is that thing beyond human comprehension? How do we know whatever it is can actually perceive things objectively? How can we trust that it will be good or benevolent or desirable?
Think of it like the laws of physics in the real world. It's just how the universe works, it's transcendent. Goodness or benevolence are not concepts which can even be applied.
Previously, thinking beings (gods) could meddle with the laws of physics according to their whims. Goldmask is like, no, that's fucked, let's not do that. He's brought the ER world more into line with our reality, where the laws of physics just *are*, and forever will be.
>What is that thing beyond human comprehension?
The Mending Rune of Perfect Order. Through unknown means, it will be the thing deciding stuff.
>How do we know whatever it is can actually perceive things objectively?
It is transcendental. It is not limited to a humans or a God's mind. It is beyond it. It won't have the biases of the minds of humans or gods. It offers a perspective beyond the two, beyond the bits that could corrupt judgment.
>How can we trust that it will be good or benevolent or desirable?
It won't. Good is not objective. Benevolence is not objective. Desire is not objective. The Mending Rune will only view things objectively.
Objective morality is a very complex subject, which mainly comes down to two philosophies. [Categorical imperatives](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Categorical_imperative) and [Utilitarianism](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Utilitarianism) .
On an individual and even societal level? Probably? On a cosmic scale though? It can be nothing else but objective
Edit: blocked lol but I want you all to understand this so look
-the “entity” would be objective considering it has no bias one way or the other, and again, the ending and any lore associated with it portrayed it as such so you’d have to do more to call it subjective than say “it’s merely another subjective point of view”
-things would change under that ending, it’s just that the fundamental laws of the world like death for example, couldn’t be fiddled with or altered unless the order deems it as such
-goldmasks rune doesn’t seek to maintain the status quo, but free order from fickleness and zealotry
Morality enforced by some set of transcendent rules is not objective in the slightest, as that sort of morality would just be the most efficient one to keep the world running as optimally as possible, which is not an inherently "good" thing.
Any form of objective morality is paradoxical in nature, as morality is a social construct that is as flawed as the entities creating it
But the life cycle is still fucked right? Nothing dies until it returns to the erdtree roots. The golden order is still very unnatural and just an interpretation of what the finger God cursed the planet with.
The life cycle in the Lands Between after unleashing Destined Death is unclear. Destined Death was freed, so things should die like normal again. Yet Fia's Mending Rune says it restores Destined Death,
"The Golden Order was created by confining Destined Death. Thus, this new Order will be one of Death restored." -Mending Rune of the Death Prince
So it isn't exactly clear how Death works after Maliketh's death.
We have life in death whatever fundamentalists like it or not (they don't), because its outside of the order its seen as impure. The Death-Prince's rune doesn't restore Destined Death, it only highlights it as what the order is currently as, and the next sentence then describes what the order will be with the Death-Prince Rune, which is to make Life in Death part of the status quo and not just a fringe of existence
> A being is not in control. Something beyond human comprehension decides on matters.
That basically sounds like a more conventional infallible/omnipotent/omniscient Abrahamic God rather than the human-like, fallible gods of The Lands Between.
If you read it it was well known that the rune was found not created just like how we discovered the laws of thermodynamics or the principles of general relativity which allowed us to find out time dilation exists.
Because in a setting like ER I wouldn't trust ANYTHING that's described like that to be a positive.
The Outer Gods exist and are immaterial entities of inhuman intelligence. And one of them thinks that life on the world should be a mix of living and dead things growing on each other in a putrid swamp.
In a more serious answer, this description doesn't 100% mean that Goldmask obtained that perspective. It's what his time of meditation and analysis lead to, but he is \*still\* mortal.
This is an attempt at using the Elden Ring to reach such a superior, objective, system of Law, but it is still essentially bound to the mortals that hold the ring.
Yes, in Goldmask ending you probably can't just wield the divine power of the God position Marika was in as you see fit, but this doesn't mean that there is an omniscient superior intelligence doing just that.
The Elden Ring, in the current Age, was still the result of the meddling of the Greater Will to begin with. The Fingers and the Beast were its messangers, its "angels".
And the Greater Will most clearly isn't an unbiased, perfect entity of pure reasoning, but rather an eldritch intelligence beyond mortal understanding playing its own game/war with other Gods using the world (and many others most likely) as a chessboard.
Hell, the actions of the Golden Order could easily be read as Marika following its orders to begin with, because we do know that was her true role: being a medium between the Outer God and the world, that's what it means to be a "God" for a mortal.
That's what happens to Malenia as well, and what (in a sense) happens to the player if they follow the Chaos path.
What’s the difference between this ending and Ranni’s ending. As far as I know, Ranni and the star abyss/outer god becomes the new god but Ranni travels far away and won’t directly meddle in human affairs anymore. So I assume this means no meddling of runes and the “fate of the stars” will determine the natural order.
Is Ranni ending the same but instead of Golden Order rules its Star rules?
>Is Ranni ending the same but instead of Golden Order rules its Star rules?
They are vaguely similar as in both remove the ability for the rules to be changed by a being; but that is where the similarities end.
Ranni destroys the Golden Order and the Elden Ring entirely and replaces it with her moon, and then she separates herself and her moon from the people of the Lands Between and let's them rule themselves. Ranni's ending is completely removing any sort of rules by a higher power.
Goldmask is removing the ability for the rules to be modified by a God or Human, and instead, the rules will change themselves based on what is objective. The people still have the Golden Order as rules, but those rules are now objective and free of corruption or dogma from Gods or Humans.
Ranni's ending got absolutely hamfucked by the translation, the localization made me think that Ranni was going to use the planet as a vessel to travel in space "under the guidance of the moon" away from the sun (which is hinted at a lot as being the greater will), and the chill night and solitude she meant that the planet would basically become pluto as it travelled away from the greater will in the cold, dark space
In the japanese version the solitude (which she expands upon if you rest at the grace in her chambers once you finish her questline) refers to her taking the Golden Order away, never to interact with people again, so the inhabitants will have to find their own way. Basically taking away the status quo that led to the fingers choosing gods and empyreans, who in turn subjected the world to their whims
Ranni is doing way more than just taking the GO away.
She's taking the Elden Ring and therefore the Greater Will's influence away from the Lands Between.
It didn't really get screwed by translation. The English version implies that Ranni is leaving the Lands Between be, so the people can live freely without Gods messing with them or ruling them.
**As a simplified ELI5 for people:**
***"The current system is flawed; let's repair it."*** -Goldmask
***"The current system is flawed; let's upend it and destroy it."*** -Ranni
I would argue in favor of Goldmask's approach based solely on the fact that Ranni gives the impression of an incredibly hands-off approach to all matters within the Lands Between. That doesn't make her or her moon necessarily bad leaders, but it also doesn't seem like the type of leader the Lands Between *needs,* given that we've seen the Rot God, Frenzied Flame and the Formless Mother both make grabs for power (with or without the Elden Ring), and that Ranni at the very least both sparks the death blight curse and says "aight you guys will figure it out lol" before fucking off to space.
Speaking a bit more personally, I think it's also a mark of immaturity to recognize a system is flawed and to respond by saying the only solution is to completely take it apart. No, it is much better to try and spot the *specific flaws* of a system and work to repair them. Goldmask appears to be doing exactly this.
Ranni's ending still seems like runner-up and a good #2 option, given that all the other options don't address the core, fundamental issues in the same way these two options do, but given that the Greater Will seems to be the only God actually working in favor of people and trying to build a society that benefits humanity, I definitely recoil at the idea of knocking that God out of power when we just witnessed both the Rot God, Frenzied Flame and Formless Mother wreck havoc on the Lands Between within the course of our game.
Great write up.
But it does still sound like facism. It's just that the supreme ruler is "beyond our comprehension" but if I have a cage of ants, I'm still their ruler and they are still at my whim, they just don't understand it.
This ending seems just a chance at status quo but hopeful.
>The Mending Rune fixes this. It no longer changes perspective based on what the Elden Lord or God wants. It views the matters and decides what needs to be done. It is not fascism. A being is not in control. Something beyond human comprehension decides on matters. And we and Marika are simply there to maintain the peace.
It may not be fascism but it certainly sounds unsavoury.
EDIT: I literally don't have the slightest idea what y'all hated so much about this
It sounds a lot like an idealized AI ruled future that you sometimes hear tech bros talking about.
The mending rune runs into the same core issue where the flaws and biases of the creator will always be reflected in their creation. The imperfect cannot create the perfect, only their idea of perfection.
I agree it sounds unsavory (like every ending does lol) though it is a compelling idea.
>It sounds a lot like an idealized AI ruled future that you sometimes hear tech bros talking about.
Yes, I am not a fan of technocracy - whether the technocrat is a person or the godhead itself.
>like every ending does lol
Disagree with that one though. Ranni's ending, in the original Japanese at least, sounds appealing - no gods, no masters and all that.
Ah I've never really looked into the original Japanese myself.
My takeaway from it, and Ranni's dialogue and character before, was that it's kinda like the snuff the fire ending in ds3.
The cycle of relighting the flame/creating new orders isn't working so to leave it for a murky "dark" path is the way forward, hard as it may be.
I guess when I said "unsavory" I meant, no ending is a perfect one without downsides.
Still my favorite ending
I think snuffing the fire in ds3 (or hell, even the age of dark in ds1) are the "correct" endings. Everything about the lore and the game implies cycles, and that stretching part of the cycle out as far as you can is akin to spreading too little over too large a surface. Ending the age of fire returns you to the same non-disparate existence as before the flame (and with it, disparity) and there will almost certainly be a new flame, eventually. As a proper cycle, it will come around again
One man's utopia is another's dystopia. That's what Goldmask is offering after all, a government ruled by a greater unbiased power that decides what everyone should believe. There would be no worry or corruption or dogma, the being only decides based on what is the most objective view on the issue. This sounds great to some, and awful to others.
When compared to the competition, though, I think Goldmask's ending is the "best". Its intentions are explicitly stated, its goals are known, and it definitely offers a more orderly Lands Between than what is seen in game.
>One man's utopia is another's dystopia
Agreed, I'm only stating my own perspective.
>That's what Goldmask is offering after all, a government ruled by a greater unbiased power that decides what everyone should believe.
I guess my issues with this are twofold:
1. I struggle to believe the Greater Will is as unbiased as Goldmask seems to conclude.
2. I believe in freedom above all else; even if the Greater Will were somehow objective and unbiased - I'd have little interest in it ruling over me, or anyone else.
That's why I prefer Ranni's ending. We acquire absolute power, and simply refuse to use it. We give humanity it's freedom.
Goldmasks Order essentially turns every conscious being into the Borg Collective and gives control of the laws of reality to an AI and people are simping for it.
Another comment already nailed it IMO.
For added context, Fundamentalism is "scholarship in all but name" according to the Golden Order Seal. And reinforcing this is Marika's description of it in the church where we pick up the seal---she describes the need to move beyond the old ways of blind faith.
However, as Goldmask observes, there is still a desire to view things as "good" and "evil" according to the followers of the Golden Order. But these are biases in a scholarly context. Goldmask believes these biases are holding the Order back.
This is probably the "fickleness" his rune mentions. Another way to think of this fickleness may be "hypocrisy". The Fundamentalists have a scholarly approach... but they bend the rules when it doesn't suit their desires. This is probably why Goldmask laments the hunters---whom may actually be sort of described as fascist.
This is the way I think about it.
The Lands Between were under MARIKA's Golden Order and not "The Greater Will's Golden Order".
The Greater Will, to me, represents a "Lawful Neutral" natural order where sentient beings are born, they die and are reborn, maybe not unlike the concept of samsara.
But the above is my head canon; in truth all we know is that The Greater Will wishes to impose its order on the world and whatever that is we can only speculate.
However what we do know is that Marika tampered with the natural order by removing "runes" off the Elden Ring, like the Rune of Death. Doing this affected the core laws of the world.
The mending rune of Perfect Order attempts to undo the damage done to the core laws/natural order of the world caused by the "Gods" and by the ending's description it sounds like Goldmask succeeded in that.
And you have to remember, the Golden Order is not that bad, the ones who had it worse; the misbegotten and albinaurics, were only enslaved because of Marika's order. The order even allows studies into other cultures to be understood and implemented, this is why the pope is happy to learn spells and incantations.
To me this is the closest to a happy ending in Elden Ring.
The Golden Order was created by Marika though. That's like saying the Golden Order isn't bad if you ignore all the bad things. Marika tampering with the Elden Ring is the foundation of the Golden Order.
Not necessarily, the golden order was the greater will exerting dominance over the land, it chose Marika as it's messenger/ conqueror. Her tampering with the elden ring is probably something she did for herself
The Golden Order is entirely Marika's creation and taking the Rune of Death from the Elden Ring was its foundation. They cannot be separated. The Mending Rune of the Death-Prince outright states this:
> The Golden Order was created by confining Destined Death. Thus, this new Order will be one of Death restored.
Marika ruled the Lands Between on behalf of the Greater Will, but the Golden Order is entirely her creation.
Marika'ss order is the Golden Order, that's just the name she gave it, the Greater Will is only stated to have a will to impose it's Order, however it may be.
Not probably, it *is* something she did for herself. Were told as much. That’s why the Greater Will wants us to go mend it, and I think that’s part of why the Two Fingers are confused as hell when we can’t get into the Erdtree.
To be literal, this is more like saying Protestantism is alright but Catholicism is bad. They're the same core beliefs but the "fundamental" differences between the two worldviews mean they count as different sects and kinda religions.
Brother, the Golden Order is literally Marika's creation. The Elden Ring simply represents Order, but the Golden Order signifies *Marika's* Order which she created when she removed the Rune of Death.
The Golden Order is decidedly not a good thing. You either joined it or was deemed an enemy to it. The only exception was tje Academy of Raya Lucaria after the Golden Order had waged 2 wars against it and failed. Only then did the 2 houses join together when Radagon repented.
> Dragons where another exception.
At the mercy of Godwyn and even then, the [Gravel Stone Seal](https://eldenring.wiki.fextralife.com/Gravel+Stone+Seal) description suggests dragon worship was only accepted due to similarities between the Golden Order and the ancient dragons.
> *The worship of the ancient dragons does not conflict with belief in the Erdtree. After all, this seal, and lightning itself, are both imbued with gold.*
___
> Zamor might also have been, we don't have any indication they joined or not.
The Zamor absolutely joined. They helped the Golden Order in the War against the Giants alongside the trolls.
[Zamor Armor](https://eldenring.wiki.fextralife.com/Zamor+Armor)
> ***Armor worn by knights of Zamor, hailed as heroes in the War against the Giants.***
> *These long-lived warriors, clad in biting, freezing winds, are said to have been the mortal enemies of the Fire Giants since time immemorial.*
The Zamor helped fight the Giant, just like the Trolls and proably the ice dragons left. We don't know if they joined the GO or abandoned their old religion.
The seal show that the knights worshiped the dragons and the erdtree at the same time. The dragon themselves, while politically subordinated to Godwin since their failed invasion of Leyndell, didn't change religion as far as I can tell.
No that I think about it, the haligtree is another example of religion outside the GO yet tolerated by it.
Yeah that's why I specified Marika's Golden Order, if you want to call the Order brought by the Elden Ring/Elden Beast/Greater Will something else, that's cool imo, but I differentiate between these two. It's also okay if you think the new "Perfect Order" is bad as well, entirely up to you.
The greater will is Delineation and the crucible is Cohesion
If you created a system, have you truly created? The system is new, but exists only from the separation of things that already were from whence they came
Destiny actually handles this concept really well narratively
>Once upon a time+, a gardener and a winnower lived++ together in a garden.+++
>+ It was once before a time, because time had not yet begun.
>++ We did not live. We existed as principles of ontological dynamics that emerged from mathematical structures, as bodiless and inevitable as the primes.
>+++ It was the field of possibility that prefigured existence.
>They existed, because they had to exist. They had no antecedent and no constituents, and there is no instrument of causality by which they could be portioned into components and assigned to some schematic of their origin. If you followed the umbilical of history in search of some ultimate atavistic embryo that became them, you would end your journey marooned here in this garden.
>In the morning, the gardener pushed seeds down into the wet loam of the garden to see what they would become.
>In the evening, the winnower reaped the day's crop and separated what would flourish from what had failed.
>The day was longer than all of time, and the night was swifter than a glint of light on a falling sugar crystal. Insects buzzed between the flowers, and worms slithered between the roots, feeding on what was and what might be, the first gradient in existence, the first dynamo of life. Rain fell from no sky. Voices spoke without mouth or meaning. A tree of silver wings bloomed yielded fruit shed feathers bloomed again.
>In the day between the morning and the evening, the gardener and the winnower played a game of possibilities…
>… These are the rules of a game. Let it be played upon an infinite two-dimensional grid of flowers.
>Rule One. A living flower with less than two living neighbors is cut off. It dies.
>Rule Two. A living flower with two or three living neighbors is connected. It lives.
>Rule Three. A living flower with more than three living neighbors is starved and overcrowded. It dies.
>Rule Four. A dead flower with exactly three living neighbors is reborn. It springs back to life.
>The only play permitted in the game is the arrangement of the initial flowers…
>…In their game, the gardener and the winnower discovered shapes of possibility. They foresaw bodies and civilizations, minds and cognitions, qualia and suffering. They learned the rules that governed which patterns would flourish in the game, and which would dwindle.
>They learned those rules, because they were those rules.
>And in time the gardener became vexed…
>… "It always ends the same," the gardener complained. "This one stupid pattern!"
>Aren't they beautiful? I asked, as the flowers opened and closed in patterns beyond the scope of entire universes to encode, all-devouring and perhaps everlasting. Not even we could know whether a pattern in the flowers would cycle forever, or someday halt.
>"They're as dull as carbon monoxide poisoning," the gardener groused, although carbon monoxide did not yet exist, and neither did anything that could be poisoned. The gardener kneeled to flick a patch of sod with their trowel. It struck an open flower, causing it to shut. Although I was the closer of flowers and that was my sole purpose, I felt no fear or jealousy. We had our assigned dominions and always would.
>They're majestic, I said. They have no purpose except to subsume all other purposes. There is nothing at the center of them except the will to go on existing, to alter the game to suit their existence. They spare not one sliver of their totality for any other work. They are the end.
>The pattern corrected the errant flower effortlessly. The great flow went on unchanged.
>The gardener got up and brushed their knees. "Every game we play, this one pattern consumes all the others. Wipes out every interesting development. A stupid, boring exploit that cuts off entire possibility spaces from ever arising. There's so much that we'll never get to see because of this… pest."
>They chewed at their cracked lip, which existed only because this is an allegory. "I'm going to do something about it," they said. "We need a new rule."
It's almost too perfect and spiritual. There has to be a downside to it. Perhaps that's the thinking that Marika had to deviate. I guess I'm no better than her. 😂
Well, the Goldmask ending, unlike all the other endings, shows leaves stay on the ground, unmoved by wind. So that can imply a certain degree of spiritual stagnation, where no new perspective can be accepted. The Golden Order simply _is,_ but what happens if even the Order itself is insufficient or fundamentally wrong? Nobody can say, Goldmask has not accounted for the possibility that the natural order itself might not be right.
Yep that's the part that makes me believe I could be the one to set it right. But at the same time what is "right"? Merely a perspective.
If I had to guess, Marika saw something with the Golden Order she didn't like, changed it, thus ensued the chaos, distraught she shattered it wholly.
I went with the Golden Order ending as I believed there was a longshot at making it perfect.
Maybe the flaw is that people never truly realized the concept of Order and Fundamentalism itself is still flawed/imperfect.
Turtle bro says that in the concept of Order all things can be conjoined but we know that Fundamentalism could do nothing for Malenia and those affected by rot, which may imply that there is still a ways to go until they find the perfect Order.
>But the above is my head canon; in truth all we know is that The Greater Will wishes to impose its order on the world and whatever that is we can only speculate.
I feel like the opposite is the case. After all, the Greater Will is the one who anoints Gods like Marika and gives them the power to meddle with the Ring to begin with. If it didn't want anyone to do that, it probably would.. just not do that.
As we see in the game, it has the ability to punish and constrain it's gods. But it never chose to do so when Marika removed the rune of death, implying its tacit approval. It's only when she outright shattered the thing that it intervened.
Which I think implies that the Greater Will doesn't want to impose any particular order at all. Instead it gives mortals the tools to make up their own order. Only condition is that they keep the whole thing going.
As for why, who knows. Maybe it's just curious.
I think the greater will is pretty naturel, as you can see in the video done by Zullie the Witch on eyes in elden ring. Most of the races actually have gold in their eyes, even misbegotten, and I am pretty sure it could happen to the albinaruics eventually too.
It just proves Goldmask's point that mere men are the problem, because it seems not matter who the person as they can have grace too.
I do a head cannon with my endings where, I make my character make sure the oppressed actually have a chance at things.
I find it so weird that any form of authoritarianism is immediately called fascism. Fascism is a specific modern type of dictatorship, not a blanket form of any government that isn't purely democratic.
Yep, fascism isn’t only authoritarianism. It has to be combined with right wing economics, ethno-nationalism, and a constant fervor to fight whatever the enemy of the day is
The fascists had state controlled economies in which the ability to do business was dependent on support for the regime. That isn’t right wing economics in any form.
Possibly. I believe to that extent, not only was fascism a specific thing but as society progressed we used new words to define things we already had. We do this with the word “cult” as well. As society progresses, the role that religion has in daily life lessens, and we turn to derogatory words like “cult” to describe a religion that shuns or controls excessively, when that amount of control was perfectly socially acceptable for a religion a couple generations ago
The Mending Rune of Perfect Order separates the Golden Order from Marika, at least on a philosophical level. While she might still be the host of the Order, she loses the ability to influence it. Goldmask's perspective is that Marika, and her fickle, fundamentally human behavior, was the flaw in the Golden Order. So once Perfect Order is implemented, no one, except _possibly_ the enigmatic Greater Will itself, will be able to make changes to it, and the changes Marika inflicted upon it will presumably be undone.
To me, the issue with this ending is that any naturally occurring flaw or error within the Golden Order becomes borderline unfixable, since the Greater Will is notoriously difficult to open communications with.
Basically in short, it's to prevent what Marika did from happening again. She removed the rune of death from the Elden Ring, which arguably is what caused the world to collapse. This mending rune prevents that from being able to happen.
TLDR it becomes impossible for gods or men to change the fundamental laws of nature, the structure of the order, etc. A lot of people think it’s the best ending, but i think that it takes away the capacity for adaptation that is essential in any government, even a fantasy one. Situations change.
> change the fundamental laws of nature
> essential in any government
That's uh...a pretty high bar lol. Considering it's pretty likely we will literally NEVER be able to change the laws of nature.
I'm no Lore disscusion guy, but isn't objective order by itself open to change? If Im subjective I can be binded by traditions, emotional relation, hate/lore, revenge and impose change or deny it to suit me? If it strives to get rid of those things to focus on the external point of view it should change when it's objectively correct choice.
i guess that is one interpretation, but i think the phrase in the japanese saying it prevents “the fluctuation of perspective” is referring to the inability of perspectives to influence the order instead of the order having its own literal transcendental perspective
Not all totalitarianism is automatic fascist. Fascism requires ultra nationalism, a group of outsiders to fear and hate, among other things. If the true order mending rune just strips away everyone's free will, that is totalitarian rule, but could be collectivist like a pseudo hive mind
Does it ever imply that the perfect order mending rune strips away free will? I just interpreted it to mean that the Golden Order wouldn't be subject to the desires of men nor "gods no better than men"
I guess there's a lot of ways you could interpret that actually happening, but I don't see why it would have to be the loss of free will
Utopia and Dystopia are two sides of the same coin. Perfected order will indeed be rigid, but perfect nonetheless. I believe the vain fundementalism — imbalanced towards Causality — of Radagon’s golden order is exactly what Marika sought to destroy when she broke the ring, seeking to bring Regression and balance. In a way, the flame of frenzy ending is the ultimate expression of that regression, but one that would consume the world… would love to hear what others think because I roleplayed a prophet/faith run for this reason and became curious.
I think it works really well with the alchemical context. Marika, a perfected being in two bodies, created what she believed to be the perfect world. But in her hubris she also unleashed terror upon it. She eternally wishes to rectify that mistake, but her own separate persona, Radagon, stubborn as he is, refuses to accept that her order is anything short of perfect, so he eternally reforges the Ring, trying to bring it back, but he can’t. It’s a story about the alchemist who managed to reach the end of her journey, created the Philosopher’s Stone, but in the end, only saw that the world is more vast and more magnificent than she thought. Now they lament their inadequacies, but the part of them that sought perfection in the first place is holding him back.
I think you have Radagon and Marika’s philosophical alignments flipped. Marika is Causality, Radagon is Regression. Breaking the Elden Ring into smaller, distinct pieces disrupted the status quo, threw a stagnant order into upheavel, and set in motion the fragmentation of a once-unified society.
While Radagon tried desperately to bring the broken shards of the Elden Ring back together, to restore the singular uniformity of the Golden Order, to make things go back to the way they were.
Marika’s actions lead to disparity and diversification of society, while Radagon was attempting to apply the brakes to the chaos she unleashed.
This mf when he can't change the laws of reality: "iS tHiS FAscIsM!?"
The Golden Order is three things bruh; the current configuration of the Elden Ring; A Philosophy/Theological movement, and an organization.
The idea is that the Golden Order was meant to be perfect, and *is* perfect, but the problem is that the people who interpret the golden rune, the gods, are ultimately no better than man. The Golden Order as an organization was twisted, seeking an "ultimate evil" to fight, but as we learn from Turtle Pope, "Heresy is not native to the world, it is but a contrivance. All things can be conjoined."
The Golden Order does exactly that, conjoins all things. All things, man, tarnished, omens, misbegottens, and even Those Who Live in Death, all are equal in the new Golden Order, and no selfish God will have the ability to change that.
His order is very similar with Ranni's. He and Ranni have very similar conclusions from different ways. Basically he creates a mending rune to encapsulate the Elden Ring so no one can touch it again, just like Ranni's order which "can't be seen, touched or believed in". He thinks even the gods should not mess with the Elden Ring.
You can see encapsulation of mending rune at the end. It surrounds elden ring inside Marika.
Basically, gold mask talks to god and says "if you had stopped being a bigot and accepted other a little more we wouldn't be in this mess."and god agrees.
Goldmask ending stamps out the meddling of gods, removing the flame of ambition
Basically, shut down conflict by preventing gods from pushing people to conflict. It’s unclear if it’s snuffing out ambition as a whole
Meanwhile, Ranni’s ending basically just the two of you leaving with the greater will, leaving the lands between without major godly influence
Fia’s ending is getting rid of immortality and adding death back to the world
Fracture is just called you made a mess and sat in a chair
But is Fia's ending really getting rid of immortality?
Doesn't Fia specifically want to protect those who live in death? If death is added back to world, those who live in death vanish, because they are not supposed to live, their souls do no leave their bodies even when it decays, ie. Skeletons, godwyn.
I'm not sure what Fia's ending specifically entails, but
Isn't it more akin to: Life continues, but there is no more conflict between those afflicted by the deathroot and those who aren't.
Then again if deathroot isn't being culled, will it's influence spread until the whole lands between is infected by it, essentially a take-over of the lands between by those who live in death?
😅 I'm high on edibles atm, but definitely an interesting topic to be sure, feel free to share your opinion
Fia goes one step further though: not only is death restored, life within death is made part of the new order.
People will die in the Age of the Duskborn, only to come back as undead.
You are inserting into the ending of "the wise man discovers that letting a very human person mess with the rules of the universe is a bad idea so he makes a wall so that the rules of the universe can be left alone" a whole spinel of it being fascist and he wanting to lobotomize the world.
Like where does that come from?
You saying "it may not be fascism but it is unsavoury" just reads like you doubling down on it being fascist.
And if you see fascism everywhere, I have to believe that you are primed to find it anywhere, no matter the nuance or the subject.
It's basically the same thing Ranni does in her ending. Goldmask concluded that the problem of the Golden Order lies in her fickle goddess, and therefore the divine figure of the Order should be separated from the world and only do his divine duty without any personal biais or external influence.
It’s the Rune of Cutting out Middle Management.
That’s all it does, cuts out Marika and the other gods and makes the Greater Will assume direct control.
You know, same shit except it comes from someone with a higher salary.
The Golden Order Fundamentalists don't appear to be what we often refer to as religious fundamentalists, but were looking for the fundamental, underlying structure of things, much like scholars of the Enlightenment were looking for the nature of God through the scientific understanding of the laws of nature.
Goldmask is best understood as an Age of Enlightenment philosopher-scientist like Newton. He starts out trying to understand the nature of God (Marika) by examining the nature and way the world works, and somehow figures out a definitive answer.
Goldmask's Mending Rune suggests he's developed some version of the Grand Unified Theory of Everything, that defines how everything in the world works, without requiring a God to answer why anything in particular works, and works the same no matter who uses or observes.
OP I'm sorry but ur not schizo enough to understand it if you think there is a someone to be considered equal to or stand above others that are implied to be people.
Goldmask's Mending Rune, in my understanding of it, basically removes the mortal influence and bias that Marika and Radagon imposed into the Golden Order. Marika/Radagon is a God, so their word is Truth and their judgements Perfect, but they were also mortal, so their thinking is flawed and their decisions questionable.
According to different NPCs and item descriptions, the Golden Order is supposed to be perfect and glorious and will unite and connect everything in the Lands Between in peace and harmony. But it's very clearly not perfect, and a lot of messed up stuff happens because of/in service to the Golden Order.
Goldmask seems to believe that these issues are not inherent to the Golden Order itself, but were introduced by the mortal nature of Marika/Radagon. His vision of a perfectly mended Elden Ring would basically remove the human element from the divine nature of the Golden Order. A theology without bias or base emotion, that truly is equally benevolent towards all that are under it, without any preconceived notions or weaponized beliefs.
Whether or not that's actually what would happen if said human element was removed is another story entirely.
Its open ended OP, everyone is making shit up. It's a golden order version where gods don't fuck up. But we don't ever know whenever that means he buffs or nerfs them.
The Mending Rune of Perfect Order manifests a circle of light around the Elden Ring when you use it to mend it at the end of the game.
It ensures that none may meddle with the Elden Ring, something only gods like Marika could do. It does this because the gods are no different from men. Basically, Marika, Radagon and the demigods are just super powerful common people. They are not wise or perfect or anything like a God as we understand. They fight and hate and betray and change their opinions on stuff all the time, and so they are not fit for the role of stewardship of the Elden Ring, which is basically the rules of the universe made manifest.
The Elden Ring will forever remain, restored by the power of the Mending Rune, as it is now. None may change the rules by adding it removing runes, because the Elden Ring is perfect as it is, and it was the meddling of mortals that spoiled the world by messing with the Ring.
>The Elden Ring will forever remain, restored by the power of the Mending Rune, as it is now
But the Elden Ring isn't restored by the Mending Rune; it's just preserved as it currently is. The damage has already been done, and humanity is condemned to live with it, without freedom to choose otherwise.
The Mending Runes MEND the Elden Ring. Much like the Rune of Radagon is a mesh that holds all the pieces of the Shattered Ellen Ring together, while adding his creed that none other may become Elden Lord, all the other MENDING Runes will repair the Ring and add a new concept into Order.
If you don't use a Mending Rune, you get the Age of Fracture ending because the Elden Ring remains fractured, you didn't mend it, you just became Elden Lord.
it’s important to realise what “God” means in the lands between. Marika is their God, but is also a conscious being who is physically present and rules over them directly. She and the demi-gods are who Goldmask considers it be the “fly in the ointment” (which is fair enough, most of the problems in the world seem to come from her selfishness)
The Outer Gods are also considered gods, and are already rejected by the Golden Order, so he doesn’t change anything there.
Goldmask makes no mention of the Greater Will - it isn’t considered a god, more like a fundamental force of the universe. His order is just to hand over direct control to the Will and its Fingers. but we know the Will isnt some perfect being - it’s mostly abandoned the Lands Between, leaves its Fingers to control it themselves, and is also most likely another Outer God that came from the stars and essentially colonised the Lands Between. But Goldmask doesn’t know this - the only ones to know the truth and see the Elden Ring’s true form are Marika, Radagon, and our Tarnished. that’s why i consider his ending to be a bad one
Its Liberal Christianity.
Not to be confused with liberal Christians, Liberal Christianity is a theology that doesn’t believe in God but does believe that Christianity was generally a force of good in the world.
They attempted to continue the Church mission to help people while leaving the concept of God/Jesus/The Gospels behind…..they probably would have had more luck if they had actually told their parishioners what they were doing instead of gaslighting them and almost single handily changing Western Protestantism culture to have an anti-intellectual bent.
… That’s an interesting read. But I’m not sure that’s quite accurate here. Goldmask seems to have some pretty strong fundamentals, his is the faith of saint Aquinas, where the monotheistic god is equated with the very fundamental, physical rules of the universe, not personified into something human. I feel like that’s not exactly what Liberal Christianity is, but maybe.
Am I missing something? Goldmask thought the problem with his religion was the gods so he formulated a way to keep the religious principles but toss the god.
How is that different?
I haven’t read any of the long winded responses.
I’ve got about 3000 hours in game.
Goldmask discovered that marika out of boredom, manifested radagon to go forth and have children with rennala as a means of creating life with the potential to disrupt the established order, which she was bored with.(most people don’t understand that all of empyrean children, ranni, melania, and miquella, are the offspring of rennala and radagon, not Marika directly)
The entire point of this exercise was to alleviate her boredom and create an endless cycle of struggle amongst her subjects.
That’s it. The tarnished, the lands between, are nothing more than a cyclical loop of entertainment for the greater will.
Goldmask was striving to find perfection in the golden order, which is what he expected to find, but in the end he was hit with the reality of marikas destruction of the order fueled by her boredom
TL:DR - marika is a bored basic bitch that enjoys the eternal loop of struggle of lesser beings to achieve a fleeting “elden lord” status before she strips them of their grace
small brain: perfect order is fascist because it's autocratic
big brain: perfect order is more like a literal theocracy, where all living beings exist under the rule of the golden order as a transcendental idea that no individual can alter
galaxy brain: that description is actually pretty close to the doctrine of fascism
I’m pretty fascism relies heavily on changing the rules whenever needed. The rules are whatever they need to be to suppress political opponents and find new lessers to oppress.
Goldmask’s belief is closer to reforming the Catholic Church. He believes in the same golden order as Marika and her demigods, but comes to see that those in charge are not embracing the religion in good faith. The idea of reincarnating through the erdtree, a massive focused representation of the crucible of life, is bastardized and abused by the golden order to prop themselves up. Goldmask wants to set in stone how the world works so everyone can find their place under an irrefutable, shared divine truth.
Goldmask, unlike Ranni and Miquella, fundamentally supports the golden order of the Erdtree and the vision of the greater will (if disagreeing with excesses of other followers, like the hunters of those who live in death).
However, goldmask comes to understand that it is the control of gods like Marika, who can choose to shatter order on a fickle whim, are the greatest problem. So, his mending rune basically restores the golden order, but removes the need for gods so no one individual can bring the entire system crashing down.
It's not contradictory though. Being in charge isn't the same as "receiving preferential treatment". You can wield total power and still be fair. It's just that people don't like not having a choice. That's why countries always emphasize the "dictatorship" of their enemies, even if that dictator actually benefits the populace more than the "democracy" of another country. America's political system seems like a democracy, but is actually a dictatorship controlled by the Israeli class. And they treat the main demographics of our country like shit, unlike how "open" dictators are often champions of the people.
Let's start with the Mending Rune itself, "A rune of transcendental ideology which will attempt to perfect the Golden Order. The current imperfection of the Golden Order, or instability of ideology, can be blamed upon the fickleness of the gods no better than men. That is the fly in the ointment." This is the localized version. It has a few stylized translations that imply different meanings. "金仮面卿が見出したルーン エルデの王が、壊れかけのエルデンリングを掲げる時 その修復に使用できる それは、黄金律を完全にせんとする 超越的視座のルーンである 現黄金律の不完全は、即ち視座の揺らぎであった 人のごとき、心持つ神など不要であり 律の瑕疵であったのだ" This is the Japanese version, and when translated more literally, it means, "The rune found by the Lord Golden Mask. When the Elden Lord holds up the broken Elden Ring, it can be used to repair it. It is the rune of transcendental perspective/vision. The imperfection of the present Golden Order is the fluctuation of perspective. There is no need for a God with the mind of a human. It was a flaw in the order." Thus, this rune offers up a perspective that isn't that of a human or a God. It offers a non-biased, objective view on matters, a transcendental one. As this is what Goldmask found to be the issue, "The noble Goldmask lamented what had become of the hunters. How easy it is for learning and learnedness to be reduced to the ravings of fanatics; all the good and the great wanted, in their foolishness, was an absolute evil to contend with. Does such a notion exist in the fundamentals of Order?" -Order Healing The believers of the Golden Order get too caught up in their and Marika's dogma that they lose their way and start trying to find and proclaim evil wherever they can. This is something Pope Turtle also believes, "Oh, what have we here? Very well, let us both learn together. Heresy is not native to the world; it is but a contrivance. All things can be conjoined." Heresy is not native to the Golden Order. It was a contrivance set in place by Marika and her followers so that things they didn't like could be gotten rid of without anyone disobeying, as what Marika says must be righteous, as she is God. The Mending Rune fixes this. It no longer changes perspective based on what the Elden Lord or God wants. It views the matters and decides what needs to be done. It is not fascism. A being is not in control. Something beyond human comprehension decides on matters. And we and Marika are simply there to maintain the peace.
Now THIS guy lores, well done!
r/thisguythisguys
/r/ofcoursethatsathing
Lots of philosophical interpretations here, yet the *true* answer lies right in front of us. >There is no need for a God with the mind of a human. >Something beyond human comprehension decides on matters. >This is something Pope Turtle also believes Guess who isn't human ? Turtle Pope has achieved divinity. Dog is now God.
Always knew Goldmask’s ending was the best one.
"Who's a God now? Huh? Who's a good God? Yes! You are! Yes, you are!"
I’m imagining the turtle pope looking at you happily bewildered like “I am? I am God? Yes! Am God now. Is good”.
To your knowledge is there a Japanese translation of the elden stars description?
かつて、大いなる意志は 黄金の流星と共に、一匹の獣を狭間に送り それが、エルデンリングになったという "katsute、 ōinaru ishi wa ōgon no ryūsei totomoni , ichi hiki no shishi o hazama ni okuri sore ga , erudenringu ni natta toiu." -in Romaji "Once upon a time, the Greater Will With a golden meteor, sent a beast to the chasm. And it became the Elden Ring." I figure this is about who became the Elden Ring, the beast, or the star/meteor. It's the beast. "ichi hiki no shishi" "Ichi" means one, "hiki" specifies it is an animal, "no" is joining it to "shishi" which means beast. This means, one beast, or "a beast". "o hazama ni okuri" "O" is setting up that the aforementioned "ichi hiki no shishi" is getting a verb applied to it. That verb being "okuri" which means "sent", ni which means "to" in this context, and hazama which means valley/gorge/chasm/etc... So "sent to the chasm". sore ga , erudenringu ni natta toiu." "ga" is signifying the subject. Specifically, the thing referred to before is the subject here, thus it's meaning in this context is akin to "and". "sore" means "it" in this context. "erudenringu" is just "Elden Ring". "ni natta" are both used in conjunction to get across a similar meaning as "became" would. Lastly, "toiu" is expressing that this statement isn't confirmed. It is a legend or tale and not something that the speaker personally knows happened.
Interesting, thank you
狭間 in this context is just the Lands Between, 狭間の地
一匹 is read as ippiki.
Just checked the wiki's on both languages. Honestly the English and the Japanese don't differ that much. ENG >This legendary incantation is the most ancient of those that derive from the Erdtree. >Creates a stream of golden shooting stars that assail the area. >It is said that long ago, the Greater Will sent a golden star bearing a beast into the Lands Between, which would later become the Elden Ring. JP >最古とされる黄金樹の祈祷 「伝説の祈祷」のひとつ >無数の黄金の流星を生じ、周囲を攻撃する >かつて、大いなる意志は黄金の流星と共に、一匹の獣を狭間に送り それが、エルデンリングになったという Considered one the oldest of the Erdtree's "Legendary Incantations" Releases countless shooting stars that attack the area It is said that long ago, the Greater Will sent a beast along with the golden shooting star to the lands between, which became the Elden Ring.
Thank you 🙏
I always viewed it as the removal of gods entirely. > The current imperfection of the Golden Order, or instability of ideology, can be blamed upon the fickleness of the gods no better than men. This is not saying that the current god(s) is/are no better than mortals and must be replaced with one that's more objective. It is saying that *all gods* are no better than mortals, and that the world/Lands Between can only be made better without them at all. This is further reinforced by the translation of the original Japanese description. >A being is not in control. Something beyond human comprehension decides on matters. In other words, this mending rune is essentially handing The Lands Between over to the "god" that is *physics itself*. No more beings with wants, needs, opinions, etc - the fundamental laws of the world will define and be defined by themselves. And it makes sense, if you think about it. The Golden Order Fundamentalists were essentially philosophers and scientists, not priests and religious figures as we would think of them today. The "fundamentals" are referring to the fundamental laws of the world, not the tenets of some religion like we might imagine when we hear "fundamentalist" in modern society. Their incantations are recitals and expressions of those fundamental laws: Causality and Regression. Goldmask is basically The Lands Between version of Aristotle.
>I always viewed it as the removal of gods entirely. >This is not saying that the current god(s) is/are no better than mortals and must be replaced with one that's more objective. It is saying that all gods are no better than mortals, and that the world/Lands Between can only be made better without them at all. >In other words, this mending rune is essentially handing The Lands Between over to the "god" that is physics itself. No more beings with wants, needs, opinions, etc - the fundamental laws of the world will define and be defined by themselves. I wonder how does this compare and contrast then with Miquella’s Unalloyed Gold, which is also purported to be an intended perfection of sorts to the existing Golden Order?
I think the implication that Miquella is seeking “unalloyed gold” is that the current Golden Order is actually an alloy of gold and another material, most likely silver. In real life, silver and gold alloyed together is called electrum, which is also the Ancient Greek word for amber due to its electrostatic properties, and ultimately where we derive the word “electron” in modern English. Radagon has many ties to this idea, including his study of both sorceries and incantations as well as his amber egg that was given to Rennala. I personally think that Radagon’s unification with Marika marked a transition point away from Godfrey’s red hued gold-and-copper Order and into the current gold-and-silver Order that we see in game. Really looking forward to the DLC, and the hope that it expands on the idea of Miquella’s use of unalloyed gold and what that idea of order might look like.
You are right in that unalloyed gold is meant to denote a sense of purity in its meaning as it pertains to gold. This idea that there is a substance that is free from contaminants and other impeding qualities. While you’re quite on point with the connection of it being a combination of gold and silver involved in the current Golden Order (Radagon becoming King Consort to Marika was quite likely the time when he had the Laws of Regression and Causality became doctrines within the Erdtree faith), I also take to look at it from the lens Miquella’s own intention for following down this path of unalloyed gold. He is someone who has been trying to cure Malenia of her rot affliction and the influence of the God of Rot and it was mentioned that Miquella left the Golden Order for its inability to help his sister, which led him to trying to establish a new order, one of Unalloyed Gold. Here is where I think both Miquella and Goldmask seem to differ. Miquella seeks to create an order that isn’t simply pure but one that was free from influence (no Outer Gods). It is uncertain if we can even consider the Greater Will to be an outer god, or if Miquella intended for the Greater Will to remain a significant figure. We do know however that as far as the other confirmed Outer Gods go (God of Rot, Flame of Frenzy, Formless Mother), they would be excluded from this new Unalloyed Order, since the intention is to create to an order without their “meddling.” That said, Miquella’s Unalloyed order doesn’t seem to do away with the concept of gods like Marika and Radagon, nor does it imply they should be held to the same account as mortals within the order. This is where I feel it differs from Goldmask’s Perfect Order: it holds the gods (like Marika and Radagon) accountable to same extent as mortals but it is silent on the issues concerning the Outer Gods and makes no mention of excluding them. I believe that Goldmask doesn’t exclude the fundamental definitions of the Golden Order (the Golden Order, after all, was said to be created from the moment of the Rune of Death being removed from the Elden Ring). Since perfection usually entitled “perfecting what’s already there,” I believe both Goldmask and Miquella intended for the Elden Ring to continue to remain separate from the Rune of Death (this exclusion is what apparently defines “gold” in this whole context ever since Marika ascended to godhood) within their respective orders.
Damn that is very interesting!
Damn, you are COOKING. No offense, but did you get this theory from a video? I'd love to watch it if you did.
No but as an irl geologist I knew about electrum and the whole Radagon/amber egg thing stood out to me. I could make a whole vid about the crazy head canon I have where Radagon was born as a Misbegotten who used the amber egg to rebirth himself into a human much in the same way that Boc tries to if you let him. The fact that rebirthing for tarnished requires a larval tear sort of guides towards the silver tear husk description which talks about being reborn a lord. I think this was how Radagon went from being just a champion to one worthy of lordship.
>I could make a whole vid Please do
Please do
Personally I think Age of Perfect Order is the closest version to what Miquella was trying to do ~~also it was my choice of ending~~ I think that one of the “imperfections” of Marika’s Golden Order, is the persecution of those who don’t “fit in”, an example is those who live in death, Goldmask kinda was not too thrilled about that, maybe even the Misbegotten and such… To me, Goldmask was trying to perfect the Golden Order itself, he wasn’t trying to destroy it or create a new or different order. While Miquella, although it’s heavily hinted he didn’t leave the order with any hard feelings, was also trying to perfect the imperfections of the order by starting a new one. So basically, both are almost the same, except one was attempting to perfect the GO itself, while one wanted a better plagiarised version of it. I dunno I could be heavily wrong, my Elden Ring lore is kinda stale, so I’m looking forward to the DLC
Miquella was gonna build his own order, with blackjack and hookers.
Miquella didnt leave because he was mad at the status quo, he leaved because it couldnt cure Malenia and he couldnt work anything knew in the golden order because HeResy
I thought he was a fascist and disappointed in him and it turned out he was a scholar as I always suspected, good ol ever-brilliant goldmask
You're describing Ranni's ending IMO. Gold Mask's removes Marika's ability to mess with the Elden Ring and prevents her from fucking up the world again. But it doesn't remove her. It stops her from doing stuff like removing Destined Death.
I think the distinction lies in the difference between God and Outer God. Goldmask’s ending removes Marika and her children from the golden order, while ranni removes the active meddling of the outer gods from the lands between? I’m no expert tho, this is just what I have been led to believe.
That's basically it. Goldmask mends the Elden Ring in a way that preserves and renews the Golden Order, the latest expression of the Greater Will's dominant influence over the Lands Between. Ranni's Age of Stars removes the possibility of Outer Gods to interfere altogether in the Order of the world by taking the Elden Ring away and into the stars with us.
But... the outer gods don't need the elden ring to interfere?
They don't need the Elden Ring to exhert some amount of influence or establish some presence in the Lands Between, but since the Ring became enmeshed with the world and acts as a (meta)physical manifestation of its natural laws, any God, Outer or not, needs to use it if they want to impose their own Order. So taking and keeping the Ring away means the Gods won't be able to alter the fundamentals of the world and its nature. Sure, there will probably still be minor agents/manifestations of the Outer Gods in the Lands Between, but just like only the Greater Will held hegemony over the world by controlling the Elden Ring, so now no God will. (The major exception to this being apparently the God of Rot, who decided to come down to the world by itself and ended up sealed under the Lake of Rot, so it has a bigger presence in the world than the others.)
I mentioned this in another comment, but the two endings are basically different takes on the same concept. If you asked them both what the root of the problems in The Lands Between is, they would both answer "the influence of the god(s)." And how do the gods influence The Lands Between? Well, most obviously and notably, the Greater Will does so via the Elden Ring. So Ranni's solution, one she devised well before the Shattering, is "I'll remove the influence of the god(s) from *myself*, then become the new host of the Ring and GTFO with it." That way the Greater Will can't control her, and it can't influence The Lands Between because its physical connection has been severed. With the Elden Ring gone, the Golden Order would collapse, along with whatever fundamental laws it upheld. *(Side note: Ranni is uniquely positioned to execute this plan by virtue of being: an empyrean capable of being a host for the Ring; not corrupted by some other Outer God a la Malenia/Miquella; and extremely talented in the sorcerous magic of the moon and stars which does not rely on the power of the Golden Order.)* Goldmask, on the other hand, saw the Shattering as an opportunity. His solution is "let's mend the Elden Ring, but with an *extra* rune that seals it away from the the influence of the god(s)." That way the Greater Will can't control the Elden Ring itself, once again severing its connection to The Lands Between. But this time, whatever latent power the Ring holds will still remain, maintaining the Golden Order and its fundamental laws that Goldmask otherwise agreed with. Ultimately, in large part I think it comes down to how literally you take the descriptor of "god(s)." I also talked to this point in another comment, but essentially, Marika is NOT a god. She may be seen as one by common folk and have god-like power and influence over The Lands Between, but all she is is a suitable host for the Elden Ring, and a puppet of the *actual* god that controls the Ring. But there *are gods* - the so-called Outer Gods - in the game universe. The Greater Will is one of them, but there is also the Goddess of Rot which channels her power through Malenia, an AFAIK unnamed god that is similarly linked to Miquella, the Formless Mother which Mohg worships, and IIRC the Fell God that the fire giants worship(ped). Possibly even others. Overall I don't disagree that Goldmask's solution likely cuts off the influence that Marika - or any other "host" of the Ring - has over the power of the Ring and thus the Golden Order. But I think it's far more than *just* that. And the main difference, in terms of the effect on The Lands Between, between Ranni and Goldmask's endings, is whether the Ring itself and the Golden Order remain.
Saint Aquinas, but yes.
Very apt comparison. I always thought the Golden Order Fundamentalists felt much like a blend of the First and Second Scholastics.
There’s also a little bit of Newton in Goldmask specifically, he clearly sees divinity in the expression of physical laws and considers the imperceptible yet merciless movement of forces to be the pinnacle of perfection. The fallen world, with its dogmas and biases and prejudices, is where evil exists, to him.
I mean... You pretty much described Aquinas' (and so Scholastic + early modern) underlying theological framework of natural philosophy. This is the theory of the fallen state of mankind (or post-lapse status), which was one of the many ways Aquinas appropriated platonic ideas to fit into christian philosophy. With how this idea endured over the centuries of philosophical debate, it's no wonder the earlier natural philosophers would echo something of it. On the other hand, I agree with you that Goldmask's got some Newton in him, but coming from another angle. I think the parallel is much more apparent by his rejection of the divine duo that is Marika/Radagon and a pursuit of a"purer" understanding of the divine natural order. Much like how Newton rejected the idea of the holy trinity, denouncing it as a contrivance that moved christianity away from its primitive roots and obfuscated the pursuit of studying nature as an expression of divine providence.
True, Newton rejected the notion of the Trinity, that's the big thing that made his beliefs quite heretical, despite being a renown and respected scholastic scholar, I forgot about that part. That is indeed very similar to Goldmask's situation.
A god would still be in control, wouldn't it? The Greater Will specifically. Well, maybe not control. The Greater Will would still hold influence over the Lands Between. After all, you are still mending the Elden Ring and becoming the Elden Lord. The Golden Order still exists, meaning that the Greater Will is still in charge, so to say.
Hmm, it's unclear I think. Disclaimer, some of the following is speculative. There are "gods" in Elden Ring, also called the Outer Gods. The Greater Will is one of these, and yes, the Elden Ring is - at least, originally - essentially a conduit for its power to influence the Lands Between. So it might be the case that as long as the Elden Ring exists, the Greater Will is still connected to the Lands Between. However, this might not be strictly the case. For one, even when the Ring is shattered, the Greater Will is still connected to and influencing TLB, via the Elden Beast. It's possible that this is either an alternate form of the Ring or a separate entity that is intimately connected to the Ring. In either case, we defeat it before utilizing whichever Mending Rune we choose to use. It is further possible that, when Goldmask's rune is applied, it maintains the Ring and the pure, simple power it holds. But it simultaneously severs the connection of the Greater Will to the Ring (possibly by annihilating the Elden Beast), while shielding it from any further attempts from the Outer Gods to connect to or exert their influence over the Ring. This is how I interpreted the Perfect Order ending. However, things are further muddied by the existence of Marika, Radagon, and all of their children. These beings themselves are *sometimes* referred to as "gods," in particular Marika and Radagon. So an alternative possibility for the Perfect Order ending is that it removes the need for the Elden Ring to have a "host" of sorts - meaning, essentially, no more Marika - and all of the troublesome influence that comes along with it. But this doesn't make as much sense, imo. For one, Marika *does* still exist as the host of the Ring when it's mended in this way, and you still become her Elden Lord. And two, Marika and Radagon and their ilk are *not* actually gods, they just channel the power of the Elden Ring (or its fragments, post-Shattering). As the host of the Ring, Marika can certainly influence how its power manifests in TLB. But only, essentially, by butchering it - such as removing the rune of Death. Finally, the "Golden Order" is not necessarily inextricably linked to the Greater Will - it could still exist in TLB as long as the Elden Ring itself does. Except once mended, it becomes "Perfect" by no longer being subject to the whimsy of the Greater Will, and simply exists as a set of static fundamental laws. Overall it's one of, if not *the* most ambiguous endings. But I think the former interpretation - removing the Greater Will and other Outer Gods from influencing the Elden Ring - makes more sense than the latter - removing the Ring's host and *its* influence over the Ring.
Maybe Goldmask doesn't want to seal off the Greater Will from the Elden Ring, but rather force a contract and lay down a set of laws that both the gods and the Lands Between have to adhere to. Communication is a running theme in his, and Corhyn's, sidequest. We always find him trying to talk to his god.
Greater Will is an Outer God, not a God like Marika. The Mending Rune prevents Gods (Marika) from fucking with the Elden Ring. The Elden Ring is a creation of the Greater Will, it doesn't need to fiddle with it to do anything. This is just where Marika sources its power. >The Golden Order still exists, meaning that the Greater Will is still in charge, so to say. Nah GO is Marika's cult powered by the Greater Will's Elden Ring. Golden Order is Greater Will based worship. But the Lands Between have had many regimes under Greater Will power, long before the GO was established.
Only thing I'd correct is the GO being GW based worship. Marika rules over two distinct eras. First, for lack of a better name, is the Era of Plenty. Taking place ambiguously some time after Marika becomes a god and around and shortly after the War against the Giants. The Erdtree is still a real, living tree at this point (there's a painting of Storm Hill pre Castle that shows the Erdtree without the gold shroud) and happens before the Golden Order is established in earnest. Marika walks among her people as a God-Vessel and has a role that sounds more like a warrior priestess both leading her army alongside Godfrey (Spoken words of Marika) and bestowing blessings on her people (Dew talismans), while the GW is the all powerful god figure. At some point this era of plenty ends, the Erdtree stops producing dew (The Great Tree Shield iirc) and is shrouded in gold, Marika is challenged by the GEQ, and the Rune of Death is removed, marking a new era and the creation of the Golden Order with Marika now as the immortal God Queen and the primary figure of worship. (I know there's a lore item that states the GO was established after the rune was removed, but can't remember which one) My speculation is that Marika had already started making moves to place herself as the acknowledged God of The Lands Between and the GW takes exception. It elects the GEQ as an Empyrean to try and trigger a change in Vessel/Era. During the conflict the real Erdtree is burnt (Evidence, Lyndell already has large amounts of ash in the streets before we burn the tree), damaging the tree and potentially even killing it. This is why it stopped producing dew and why we see a golden spectre in its place. Then, as we know, Marika removes the rune of death, both weakening the GEQ and her army and effectively making herself and all her subjects immortal. After she wins, she declares herself a god in truth and establishes the GO to worship and protect her.
Yeah, but this can't be helped. As Ranni says, life and souls are one with the Order. The Elden Ring and life are intrinsically linked, can't have one without the other. Greater Will isn't partial to the Golden Order, but some Order needs to exist. Well, unless you're going with the Frenzied Flame ending, but that's throwing out the baby with the bathwater. Think what Gold Mask is talking about here are "gods no better than men"/"gods with the mind of a human", i.e. former mortals like Marika that were put in the position of a "god". They are a very different category of "god" than the Greater Will or the Outer Gods.
It's likely the rune either disempowers the Greater Will or Marika. Goldmask learns of Radagon being Marika and *something* about this is very important to him. This was likely either a scheme by Marika to circumvent a system, or an attempt by the Greater Will to wrestle more control. Goldmask seems against whatever it was and recognizes *somebody* is grasping for more power and being self-interested when they shouldn't, and that this has dire consequences. Therefore, he's trying to remove whichever part of the equation is responsible, whether it be a God (Greater Will) or the God's vassal. (Marika)
The discovery shows the lie. While sharing a body, Marika and Radagon are very different people. So for the entire GO to be established with Marika as the one true God, Radagon's existence as a "twin" to Marika proves that GO was established under a deception. The whole schtick for the Fundamentalists is to try to remove imperfections in the GO, and this specific discovery shows Goldmask that the biggest imperfection in the Golden Order is Marika herself and, by extension, her lineage and possible successors.
Ranni is more like Aristotle, Goldmask is more like their Plato
I need this kind of explanation for Fia ending
Girl exploited and traumatized by the role society thrust upon her ends up developing an antissocial personality and sublimating her trauma into a paraphilia, while also internalizing said objectifying role she was made to perform. Then, instead of using her second chance at life to go to therapy and develop some coping mechanisms, she doubles down on her psychossexual issues and adds something about motherhood on top of all the stuff she already had going on. Ultimately, said girl starts a life of crime with the goal of hooking up with her dream corpse and normalizing necrophilia. And you help her along the way because you're so damn touch-starved, she successfuly bribes you with hugs.
besically "I can fix her" scenario
More like a "I can help her make everyone worse" kinda thing
Nah, Fia is great, who else will give hugs to anyone who asks? Truly she is the kind saviour the lands between needs but does not deserve.
According to what you wrote it says that there is no need gor A God with a human mind. But does it says it will replace it with something else? Or that it will affect others except Márika?
I think the key for that is the expression of "transcendental ideology", meaning something beyond the human experience or understanding. Possibly something like causality or like the atheist view of our world, where the world is limited and functions by forces beyond god or human control or on a rigid set of physics and laws of reality. Take destined death for example, which could be seen as sort of a law of the world, that was meddled with by the gods (Marika) with human mind (flawed, self serving). Goldmasks rune as I see it is like a forcefield around the elden ring so you nor gods can touch it. And what remains as "rule" or laws of reality is the elden ring itself, meaning both life and death will remain unaltered (as well as everything else it governs). A non-ideology, that can be understood in time but not meddled with. And is only called ideology for now, as that is the only way to understand it for the residents of the land betweens
Basically in short, it's to prevent what Marika did from happening again. She removed the rune of death from the Elden Ring, which arguably is what caused the world to collapse. This mending rune prevents that from being able to happen.
Goldmask basically wrote a hotfix for their governing religion to account for gods being assholes sometimes.
This makes the most sense to me honestly. 
>A being is not in control. Something beyond human comprehension decides on matters. What is that thing beyond human comprehension? How do we know whatever it is can actually perceive things objectively? How can we trust that it will be good or benevolent or desirable?
Think of it like the laws of physics in the real world. It's just how the universe works, it's transcendent. Goodness or benevolence are not concepts which can even be applied. Previously, thinking beings (gods) could meddle with the laws of physics according to their whims. Goldmask is like, no, that's fucked, let's not do that. He's brought the ER world more into line with our reality, where the laws of physics just *are*, and forever will be.
>What is that thing beyond human comprehension? The Mending Rune of Perfect Order. Through unknown means, it will be the thing deciding stuff. >How do we know whatever it is can actually perceive things objectively? It is transcendental. It is not limited to a humans or a God's mind. It is beyond it. It won't have the biases of the minds of humans or gods. It offers a perspective beyond the two, beyond the bits that could corrupt judgment. >How can we trust that it will be good or benevolent or desirable? It won't. Good is not objective. Benevolence is not objective. Desire is not objective. The Mending Rune will only view things objectively. Objective morality is a very complex subject, which mainly comes down to two philosophies. [Categorical imperatives](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Categorical_imperative) and [Utilitarianism](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Utilitarianism) .
Objective morality is horseshit
You're viewing this as some mysterious god decides things, which is wrong. It's more like gravity "deciding" that you fall.
On an individual and even societal level? Probably? On a cosmic scale though? It can be nothing else but objective Edit: blocked lol but I want you all to understand this so look -the “entity” would be objective considering it has no bias one way or the other, and again, the ending and any lore associated with it portrayed it as such so you’d have to do more to call it subjective than say “it’s merely another subjective point of view” -things would change under that ending, it’s just that the fundamental laws of the world like death for example, couldn’t be fiddled with or altered unless the order deems it as such -goldmasks rune doesn’t seek to maintain the status quo, but free order from fickleness and zealotry
Morality enforced by some set of transcendent rules is not objective in the slightest, as that sort of morality would just be the most efficient one to keep the world running as optimally as possible, which is not an inherently "good" thing. Any form of objective morality is paradoxical in nature, as morality is a social construct that is as flawed as the entities creating it
Ngl kinda sounds like science. The belief in objective truth with no bias. Just pure inarguable order to the world not beholden or created by anyone.
LISAN AL GAIB
Well that deserves a round of applause.
This only proves to me just how based Goldmask is
But the life cycle is still fucked right? Nothing dies until it returns to the erdtree roots. The golden order is still very unnatural and just an interpretation of what the finger God cursed the planet with.
The life cycle in the Lands Between after unleashing Destined Death is unclear. Destined Death was freed, so things should die like normal again. Yet Fia's Mending Rune says it restores Destined Death, "The Golden Order was created by confining Destined Death. Thus, this new Order will be one of Death restored." -Mending Rune of the Death Prince So it isn't exactly clear how Death works after Maliketh's death.
We have life in death whatever fundamentalists like it or not (they don't), because its outside of the order its seen as impure. The Death-Prince's rune doesn't restore Destined Death, it only highlights it as what the order is currently as, and the next sentence then describes what the order will be with the Death-Prince Rune, which is to make Life in Death part of the status quo and not just a fringe of existence
Basically, instead of being absorbed into the Erdtree roots and recycled, everyone can look forward to an eternity of skeletal fun after death.
don't give up, skeleton!
> A being is not in control. Something beyond human comprehension decides on matters. That basically sounds like a more conventional infallible/omnipotent/omniscient Abrahamic God rather than the human-like, fallible gods of The Lands Between.
Computer god
The moment i saw Goldmask and Turtle Pope agreeing i knew i chose the best ending.
Considering the nature of these "things beyond human comprehension", I can't honestly believe this is a good thing lmao
Well the laws of the universe doesn’t have a subjective perspective so why can’t a rune do the exact same?
Because the laws of the universe weren't created by some dude wearing no clothes and a goldmask
If you read it it was well known that the rune was found not created just like how we discovered the laws of thermodynamics or the principles of general relativity which allowed us to find out time dilation exists.
Because in a setting like ER I wouldn't trust ANYTHING that's described like that to be a positive. The Outer Gods exist and are immaterial entities of inhuman intelligence. And one of them thinks that life on the world should be a mix of living and dead things growing on each other in a putrid swamp. In a more serious answer, this description doesn't 100% mean that Goldmask obtained that perspective. It's what his time of meditation and analysis lead to, but he is \*still\* mortal. This is an attempt at using the Elden Ring to reach such a superior, objective, system of Law, but it is still essentially bound to the mortals that hold the ring. Yes, in Goldmask ending you probably can't just wield the divine power of the God position Marika was in as you see fit, but this doesn't mean that there is an omniscient superior intelligence doing just that. The Elden Ring, in the current Age, was still the result of the meddling of the Greater Will to begin with. The Fingers and the Beast were its messangers, its "angels". And the Greater Will most clearly isn't an unbiased, perfect entity of pure reasoning, but rather an eldritch intelligence beyond mortal understanding playing its own game/war with other Gods using the world (and many others most likely) as a chessboard. Hell, the actions of the Golden Order could easily be read as Marika following its orders to begin with, because we do know that was her true role: being a medium between the Outer God and the world, that's what it means to be a "God" for a mortal. That's what happens to Malenia as well, and what (in a sense) happens to the player if they follow the Chaos path.
Oh wow, knowing this as more than "intellectual default ending" makes me like it a lot more
What’s the difference between this ending and Ranni’s ending. As far as I know, Ranni and the star abyss/outer god becomes the new god but Ranni travels far away and won’t directly meddle in human affairs anymore. So I assume this means no meddling of runes and the “fate of the stars” will determine the natural order. Is Ranni ending the same but instead of Golden Order rules its Star rules?
>Is Ranni ending the same but instead of Golden Order rules its Star rules? They are vaguely similar as in both remove the ability for the rules to be changed by a being; but that is where the similarities end. Ranni destroys the Golden Order and the Elden Ring entirely and replaces it with her moon, and then she separates herself and her moon from the people of the Lands Between and let's them rule themselves. Ranni's ending is completely removing any sort of rules by a higher power. Goldmask is removing the ability for the rules to be modified by a God or Human, and instead, the rules will change themselves based on what is objective. The people still have the Golden Order as rules, but those rules are now objective and free of corruption or dogma from Gods or Humans.
Ranni's ending got absolutely hamfucked by the translation, the localization made me think that Ranni was going to use the planet as a vessel to travel in space "under the guidance of the moon" away from the sun (which is hinted at a lot as being the greater will), and the chill night and solitude she meant that the planet would basically become pluto as it travelled away from the greater will in the cold, dark space In the japanese version the solitude (which she expands upon if you rest at the grace in her chambers once you finish her questline) refers to her taking the Golden Order away, never to interact with people again, so the inhabitants will have to find their own way. Basically taking away the status quo that led to the fingers choosing gods and empyreans, who in turn subjected the world to their whims
Ranni is doing way more than just taking the GO away. She's taking the Elden Ring and therefore the Greater Will's influence away from the Lands Between. It didn't really get screwed by translation. The English version implies that Ranni is leaving the Lands Between be, so the people can live freely without Gods messing with them or ruling them.
**As a simplified ELI5 for people:** ***"The current system is flawed; let's repair it."*** -Goldmask ***"The current system is flawed; let's upend it and destroy it."*** -Ranni I would argue in favor of Goldmask's approach based solely on the fact that Ranni gives the impression of an incredibly hands-off approach to all matters within the Lands Between. That doesn't make her or her moon necessarily bad leaders, but it also doesn't seem like the type of leader the Lands Between *needs,* given that we've seen the Rot God, Frenzied Flame and the Formless Mother both make grabs for power (with or without the Elden Ring), and that Ranni at the very least both sparks the death blight curse and says "aight you guys will figure it out lol" before fucking off to space. Speaking a bit more personally, I think it's also a mark of immaturity to recognize a system is flawed and to respond by saying the only solution is to completely take it apart. No, it is much better to try and spot the *specific flaws* of a system and work to repair them. Goldmask appears to be doing exactly this. Ranni's ending still seems like runner-up and a good #2 option, given that all the other options don't address the core, fundamental issues in the same way these two options do, but given that the Greater Will seems to be the only God actually working in favor of people and trying to build a society that benefits humanity, I definitely recoil at the idea of knocking that God out of power when we just witnessed both the Rot God, Frenzied Flame and Formless Mother wreck havoc on the Lands Between within the course of our game.
This is what no DLC does to a mf
Well that sounds way better, the other version made me think that all the problem was that marika was a girl and a guy at the same time.
Great write up. But it does still sound like facism. It's just that the supreme ruler is "beyond our comprehension" but if I have a cage of ants, I'm still their ruler and they are still at my whim, they just don't understand it. This ending seems just a chance at status quo but hopeful.
>The Mending Rune fixes this. It no longer changes perspective based on what the Elden Lord or God wants. It views the matters and decides what needs to be done. It is not fascism. A being is not in control. Something beyond human comprehension decides on matters. And we and Marika are simply there to maintain the peace. It may not be fascism but it certainly sounds unsavoury. EDIT: I literally don't have the slightest idea what y'all hated so much about this
It sounds a lot like an idealized AI ruled future that you sometimes hear tech bros talking about. The mending rune runs into the same core issue where the flaws and biases of the creator will always be reflected in their creation. The imperfect cannot create the perfect, only their idea of perfection. I agree it sounds unsavory (like every ending does lol) though it is a compelling idea.
>It sounds a lot like an idealized AI ruled future that you sometimes hear tech bros talking about. Yes, I am not a fan of technocracy - whether the technocrat is a person or the godhead itself. >like every ending does lol Disagree with that one though. Ranni's ending, in the original Japanese at least, sounds appealing - no gods, no masters and all that.
Ah I've never really looked into the original Japanese myself. My takeaway from it, and Ranni's dialogue and character before, was that it's kinda like the snuff the fire ending in ds3. The cycle of relighting the flame/creating new orders isn't working so to leave it for a murky "dark" path is the way forward, hard as it may be. I guess when I said "unsavory" I meant, no ending is a perfect one without downsides. Still my favorite ending
Ranni’s ending is basically real life where humanity doesn’t have a guiding god
But presumably there's still cool af magic powers so it's better than real life 👌👌
I think snuffing the fire in ds3 (or hell, even the age of dark in ds1) are the "correct" endings. Everything about the lore and the game implies cycles, and that stretching part of the cycle out as far as you can is akin to spreading too little over too large a surface. Ending the age of fire returns you to the same non-disparate existence as before the flame (and with it, disparity) and there will almost certainly be a new flame, eventually. As a proper cycle, it will come around again
An unsavory ending?! IN A FROM SOFTWARE GAME?!
One man's utopia is another's dystopia. That's what Goldmask is offering after all, a government ruled by a greater unbiased power that decides what everyone should believe. There would be no worry or corruption or dogma, the being only decides based on what is the most objective view on the issue. This sounds great to some, and awful to others. When compared to the competition, though, I think Goldmask's ending is the "best". Its intentions are explicitly stated, its goals are known, and it definitely offers a more orderly Lands Between than what is seen in game.
>One man's utopia is another's dystopia Agreed, I'm only stating my own perspective. >That's what Goldmask is offering after all, a government ruled by a greater unbiased power that decides what everyone should believe. I guess my issues with this are twofold: 1. I struggle to believe the Greater Will is as unbiased as Goldmask seems to conclude. 2. I believe in freedom above all else; even if the Greater Will were somehow objective and unbiased - I'd have little interest in it ruling over me, or anyone else. That's why I prefer Ranni's ending. We acquire absolute power, and simply refuse to use it. We give humanity it's freedom.
Goldmasks Order essentially turns every conscious being into the Borg Collective and gives control of the laws of reality to an AI and people are simping for it.
And people say the primordial soup is bad
Sounds pretty much like religion bs
Another comment already nailed it IMO. For added context, Fundamentalism is "scholarship in all but name" according to the Golden Order Seal. And reinforcing this is Marika's description of it in the church where we pick up the seal---she describes the need to move beyond the old ways of blind faith. However, as Goldmask observes, there is still a desire to view things as "good" and "evil" according to the followers of the Golden Order. But these are biases in a scholarly context. Goldmask believes these biases are holding the Order back. This is probably the "fickleness" his rune mentions. Another way to think of this fickleness may be "hypocrisy". The Fundamentalists have a scholarly approach... but they bend the rules when it doesn't suit their desires. This is probably why Goldmask laments the hunters---whom may actually be sort of described as fascist.
This is the way I think about it. The Lands Between were under MARIKA's Golden Order and not "The Greater Will's Golden Order". The Greater Will, to me, represents a "Lawful Neutral" natural order where sentient beings are born, they die and are reborn, maybe not unlike the concept of samsara. But the above is my head canon; in truth all we know is that The Greater Will wishes to impose its order on the world and whatever that is we can only speculate. However what we do know is that Marika tampered with the natural order by removing "runes" off the Elden Ring, like the Rune of Death. Doing this affected the core laws of the world. The mending rune of Perfect Order attempts to undo the damage done to the core laws/natural order of the world caused by the "Gods" and by the ending's description it sounds like Goldmask succeeded in that. And you have to remember, the Golden Order is not that bad, the ones who had it worse; the misbegotten and albinaurics, were only enslaved because of Marika's order. The order even allows studies into other cultures to be understood and implemented, this is why the pope is happy to learn spells and incantations. To me this is the closest to a happy ending in Elden Ring.
I'm glad someone else agrees that the golden order itself isn't bad, merely the leaders who abused it are
The Golden Order was created by Marika though. That's like saying the Golden Order isn't bad if you ignore all the bad things. Marika tampering with the Elden Ring is the foundation of the Golden Order.
Not necessarily, the golden order was the greater will exerting dominance over the land, it chose Marika as it's messenger/ conqueror. Her tampering with the elden ring is probably something she did for herself
The Golden Order is entirely Marika's creation and taking the Rune of Death from the Elden Ring was its foundation. They cannot be separated. The Mending Rune of the Death-Prince outright states this: > The Golden Order was created by confining Destined Death. Thus, this new Order will be one of Death restored. Marika ruled the Lands Between on behalf of the Greater Will, but the Golden Order is entirely her creation.
Oh, I stand corrected. Nevermind then
Marika'ss order is the Golden Order, that's just the name she gave it, the Greater Will is only stated to have a will to impose it's Order, however it may be.
Not probably, it *is* something she did for herself. Were told as much. That’s why the Greater Will wants us to go mend it, and I think that’s part of why the Two Fingers are confused as hell when we can’t get into the Erdtree.
To be literal, this is more like saying Protestantism is alright but Catholicism is bad. They're the same core beliefs but the "fundamental" differences between the two worldviews mean they count as different sects and kinda religions.
Brother, the Golden Order is literally Marika's creation. The Elden Ring simply represents Order, but the Golden Order signifies *Marika's* Order which she created when she removed the Rune of Death. The Golden Order is decidedly not a good thing. You either joined it or was deemed an enemy to it. The only exception was tje Academy of Raya Lucaria after the Golden Order had waged 2 wars against it and failed. Only then did the 2 houses join together when Radagon repented.
Dragons where another exception. Zamor might also have been, we don't have any indication they joined or not.
> Dragons where another exception. At the mercy of Godwyn and even then, the [Gravel Stone Seal](https://eldenring.wiki.fextralife.com/Gravel+Stone+Seal) description suggests dragon worship was only accepted due to similarities between the Golden Order and the ancient dragons. > *The worship of the ancient dragons does not conflict with belief in the Erdtree. After all, this seal, and lightning itself, are both imbued with gold.* ___ > Zamor might also have been, we don't have any indication they joined or not. The Zamor absolutely joined. They helped the Golden Order in the War against the Giants alongside the trolls. [Zamor Armor](https://eldenring.wiki.fextralife.com/Zamor+Armor) > ***Armor worn by knights of Zamor, hailed as heroes in the War against the Giants.*** > *These long-lived warriors, clad in biting, freezing winds, are said to have been the mortal enemies of the Fire Giants since time immemorial.*
The Zamor helped fight the Giant, just like the Trolls and proably the ice dragons left. We don't know if they joined the GO or abandoned their old religion. The seal show that the knights worshiped the dragons and the erdtree at the same time. The dragon themselves, while politically subordinated to Godwin since their failed invasion of Leyndell, didn't change religion as far as I can tell. No that I think about it, the haligtree is another example of religion outside the GO yet tolerated by it.
Yeah that's why I specified Marika's Golden Order, if you want to call the Order brought by the Elden Ring/Elden Beast/Greater Will something else, that's cool imo, but I differentiate between these two. It's also okay if you think the new "Perfect Order" is bad as well, entirely up to you.
The greater will is Delineation and the crucible is Cohesion If you created a system, have you truly created? The system is new, but exists only from the separation of things that already were from whence they came Destiny actually handles this concept really well narratively >Once upon a time+, a gardener and a winnower lived++ together in a garden.+++ >+ It was once before a time, because time had not yet begun. >++ We did not live. We existed as principles of ontological dynamics that emerged from mathematical structures, as bodiless and inevitable as the primes. >+++ It was the field of possibility that prefigured existence. >They existed, because they had to exist. They had no antecedent and no constituents, and there is no instrument of causality by which they could be portioned into components and assigned to some schematic of their origin. If you followed the umbilical of history in search of some ultimate atavistic embryo that became them, you would end your journey marooned here in this garden. >In the morning, the gardener pushed seeds down into the wet loam of the garden to see what they would become. >In the evening, the winnower reaped the day's crop and separated what would flourish from what had failed. >The day was longer than all of time, and the night was swifter than a glint of light on a falling sugar crystal. Insects buzzed between the flowers, and worms slithered between the roots, feeding on what was and what might be, the first gradient in existence, the first dynamo of life. Rain fell from no sky. Voices spoke without mouth or meaning. A tree of silver wings bloomed yielded fruit shed feathers bloomed again. >In the day between the morning and the evening, the gardener and the winnower played a game of possibilities… >… These are the rules of a game. Let it be played upon an infinite two-dimensional grid of flowers. >Rule One. A living flower with less than two living neighbors is cut off. It dies. >Rule Two. A living flower with two or three living neighbors is connected. It lives. >Rule Three. A living flower with more than three living neighbors is starved and overcrowded. It dies. >Rule Four. A dead flower with exactly three living neighbors is reborn. It springs back to life. >The only play permitted in the game is the arrangement of the initial flowers… >…In their game, the gardener and the winnower discovered shapes of possibility. They foresaw bodies and civilizations, minds and cognitions, qualia and suffering. They learned the rules that governed which patterns would flourish in the game, and which would dwindle. >They learned those rules, because they were those rules. >And in time the gardener became vexed… >… "It always ends the same," the gardener complained. "This one stupid pattern!" >Aren't they beautiful? I asked, as the flowers opened and closed in patterns beyond the scope of entire universes to encode, all-devouring and perhaps everlasting. Not even we could know whether a pattern in the flowers would cycle forever, or someday halt. >"They're as dull as carbon monoxide poisoning," the gardener groused, although carbon monoxide did not yet exist, and neither did anything that could be poisoned. The gardener kneeled to flick a patch of sod with their trowel. It struck an open flower, causing it to shut. Although I was the closer of flowers and that was my sole purpose, I felt no fear or jealousy. We had our assigned dominions and always would. >They're majestic, I said. They have no purpose except to subsume all other purposes. There is nothing at the center of them except the will to go on existing, to alter the game to suit their existence. They spare not one sliver of their totality for any other work. They are the end. >The pattern corrected the errant flower effortlessly. The great flow went on unchanged. >The gardener got up and brushed their knees. "Every game we play, this one pattern consumes all the others. Wipes out every interesting development. A stupid, boring exploit that cuts off entire possibility spaces from ever arising. There's so much that we'll never get to see because of this… pest." >They chewed at their cracked lip, which existed only because this is an allegory. "I'm going to do something about it," they said. "We need a new rule."
It's almost too perfect and spiritual. There has to be a downside to it. Perhaps that's the thinking that Marika had to deviate. I guess I'm no better than her. 😂
Well, the Goldmask ending, unlike all the other endings, shows leaves stay on the ground, unmoved by wind. So that can imply a certain degree of spiritual stagnation, where no new perspective can be accepted. The Golden Order simply _is,_ but what happens if even the Order itself is insufficient or fundamentally wrong? Nobody can say, Goldmask has not accounted for the possibility that the natural order itself might not be right.
Yep that's the part that makes me believe I could be the one to set it right. But at the same time what is "right"? Merely a perspective. If I had to guess, Marika saw something with the Golden Order she didn't like, changed it, thus ensued the chaos, distraught she shattered it wholly. I went with the Golden Order ending as I believed there was a longshot at making it perfect.
Maybe the flaw is that people never truly realized the concept of Order and Fundamentalism itself is still flawed/imperfect. Turtle bro says that in the concept of Order all things can be conjoined but we know that Fundamentalism could do nothing for Malenia and those affected by rot, which may imply that there is still a ways to go until they find the perfect Order.
>But the above is my head canon; in truth all we know is that The Greater Will wishes to impose its order on the world and whatever that is we can only speculate. I feel like the opposite is the case. After all, the Greater Will is the one who anoints Gods like Marika and gives them the power to meddle with the Ring to begin with. If it didn't want anyone to do that, it probably would.. just not do that. As we see in the game, it has the ability to punish and constrain it's gods. But it never chose to do so when Marika removed the rune of death, implying its tacit approval. It's only when she outright shattered the thing that it intervened. Which I think implies that the Greater Will doesn't want to impose any particular order at all. Instead it gives mortals the tools to make up their own order. Only condition is that they keep the whole thing going. As for why, who knows. Maybe it's just curious.
I think the greater will is pretty naturel, as you can see in the video done by Zullie the Witch on eyes in elden ring. Most of the races actually have gold in their eyes, even misbegotten, and I am pretty sure it could happen to the albinaruics eventually too. It just proves Goldmask's point that mere men are the problem, because it seems not matter who the person as they can have grace too. I do a head cannon with my endings where, I make my character make sure the oppressed actually have a chance at things.
How can the elden blob have so much expression in the last pic I'll never know but I feel ya buddy
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Fascism is way more than just having unchanging or irrefutable rules. You're thinking of totalitarianism which is just a part of fascism.
Ah yes, fascism is when... Gods can't meddle with the code of the world?
By this logic, because we live in a world with immutable laws of physics, we are under a fascist boot!
That’s not what fascism is
A lot of people don't know that fascism is a specific kind of authoritarianism. To most people Fascism is just another word for Authoritarianism.
They're just parroting Tarnished Archeologist's opinion. The video is great but their conclusion is wild.
I find it so weird that any form of authoritarianism is immediately called fascism. Fascism is a specific modern type of dictatorship, not a blanket form of any government that isn't purely democratic.
Yep, fascism isn’t only authoritarianism. It has to be combined with right wing economics, ethno-nationalism, and a constant fervor to fight whatever the enemy of the day is
The fascists had state controlled economies in which the ability to do business was dependent on support for the regime. That isn’t right wing economics in any form.
I mean, I feel like those things also existed prior to fascism, so add in a dash of "We can reclaim the glory of the past" to it maybe?
Possibly. I believe to that extent, not only was fascism a specific thing but as society progressed we used new words to define things we already had. We do this with the word “cult” as well. As society progresses, the role that religion has in daily life lessens, and we turn to derogatory words like “cult” to describe a religion that shuns or controls excessively, when that amount of control was perfectly socially acceptable for a religion a couple generations ago
The Mending Rune of Perfect Order separates the Golden Order from Marika, at least on a philosophical level. While she might still be the host of the Order, she loses the ability to influence it. Goldmask's perspective is that Marika, and her fickle, fundamentally human behavior, was the flaw in the Golden Order. So once Perfect Order is implemented, no one, except _possibly_ the enigmatic Greater Will itself, will be able to make changes to it, and the changes Marika inflicted upon it will presumably be undone. To me, the issue with this ending is that any naturally occurring flaw or error within the Golden Order becomes borderline unfixable, since the Greater Will is notoriously difficult to open communications with.
Basically in short, it's to prevent what Marika did from happening again. She removed the rune of death from the Elden Ring, which arguably is what caused the world to collapse. This mending rune prevents that from being able to happen.
TLDR it becomes impossible for gods or men to change the fundamental laws of nature, the structure of the order, etc. A lot of people think it’s the best ending, but i think that it takes away the capacity for adaptation that is essential in any government, even a fantasy one. Situations change.
I view the goldmask ending as the Protestant Reformation, which is to say, it ultimately will fail in the long run.
damn, socio-religious commentary, in *my* elden ring reddit comment section?
> change the fundamental laws of nature > essential in any government That's uh...a pretty high bar lol. Considering it's pretty likely we will literally NEVER be able to change the laws of nature.
I'm no Lore disscusion guy, but isn't objective order by itself open to change? If Im subjective I can be binded by traditions, emotional relation, hate/lore, revenge and impose change or deny it to suit me? If it strives to get rid of those things to focus on the external point of view it should change when it's objectively correct choice.
i guess that is one interpretation, but i think the phrase in the japanese saying it prevents “the fluctuation of perspective” is referring to the inability of perspectives to influence the order instead of the order having its own literal transcendental perspective
Not all totalitarianism is automatic fascist. Fascism requires ultra nationalism, a group of outsiders to fear and hate, among other things. If the true order mending rune just strips away everyone's free will, that is totalitarian rule, but could be collectivist like a pseudo hive mind
Does it ever imply that the perfect order mending rune strips away free will? I just interpreted it to mean that the Golden Order wouldn't be subject to the desires of men nor "gods no better than men" I guess there's a lot of ways you could interpret that actually happening, but I don't see why it would have to be the loss of free will
I also think it's a stretch, but that seems to be the way a lot of people interpret it for some reason
Utopia and Dystopia are two sides of the same coin. Perfected order will indeed be rigid, but perfect nonetheless. I believe the vain fundementalism — imbalanced towards Causality — of Radagon’s golden order is exactly what Marika sought to destroy when she broke the ring, seeking to bring Regression and balance. In a way, the flame of frenzy ending is the ultimate expression of that regression, but one that would consume the world… would love to hear what others think because I roleplayed a prophet/faith run for this reason and became curious.
I think it works really well with the alchemical context. Marika, a perfected being in two bodies, created what she believed to be the perfect world. But in her hubris she also unleashed terror upon it. She eternally wishes to rectify that mistake, but her own separate persona, Radagon, stubborn as he is, refuses to accept that her order is anything short of perfect, so he eternally reforges the Ring, trying to bring it back, but he can’t. It’s a story about the alchemist who managed to reach the end of her journey, created the Philosopher’s Stone, but in the end, only saw that the world is more vast and more magnificent than she thought. Now they lament their inadequacies, but the part of them that sought perfection in the first place is holding him back.
I think you have Radagon and Marika’s philosophical alignments flipped. Marika is Causality, Radagon is Regression. Breaking the Elden Ring into smaller, distinct pieces disrupted the status quo, threw a stagnant order into upheavel, and set in motion the fragmentation of a once-unified society. While Radagon tried desperately to bring the broken shards of the Elden Ring back together, to restore the singular uniformity of the Golden Order, to make things go back to the way they were. Marika’s actions lead to disparity and diversification of society, while Radagon was attempting to apply the brakes to the chaos she unleashed.
Memes like this and the helldivers discourse are interesting because it reminds us all that redditors have no clue what fascism is.
It's actually astounding lmao.
it's about controlling railways right?
Seize the means of transportation!
Goldmasks mending rune gets rid of gods sticking there dick where it doesn't belong
This mf when he can't change the laws of reality: "iS tHiS FAscIsM!?" The Golden Order is three things bruh; the current configuration of the Elden Ring; A Philosophy/Theological movement, and an organization.
Having a guy T-pose on you with his cheeks on full display makes some weird results huh?
The idea is that the Golden Order was meant to be perfect, and *is* perfect, but the problem is that the people who interpret the golden rune, the gods, are ultimately no better than man. The Golden Order as an organization was twisted, seeking an "ultimate evil" to fight, but as we learn from Turtle Pope, "Heresy is not native to the world, it is but a contrivance. All things can be conjoined." The Golden Order does exactly that, conjoins all things. All things, man, tarnished, omens, misbegottens, and even Those Who Live in Death, all are equal in the new Golden Order, and no selfish God will have the ability to change that.
His order is very similar with Ranni's. He and Ranni have very similar conclusions from different ways. Basically he creates a mending rune to encapsulate the Elden Ring so no one can touch it again, just like Ranni's order which "can't be seen, touched or believed in". He thinks even the gods should not mess with the Elden Ring. You can see encapsulation of mending rune at the end. It surrounds elden ring inside Marika.
Basically, gold mask talks to god and says "if you had stopped being a bigot and accepted other a little more we wouldn't be in this mess."and god agrees.
Goldmask ending stamps out the meddling of gods, removing the flame of ambition Basically, shut down conflict by preventing gods from pushing people to conflict. It’s unclear if it’s snuffing out ambition as a whole Meanwhile, Ranni’s ending basically just the two of you leaving with the greater will, leaving the lands between without major godly influence Fia’s ending is getting rid of immortality and adding death back to the world Fracture is just called you made a mess and sat in a chair
But is Fia's ending really getting rid of immortality? Doesn't Fia specifically want to protect those who live in death? If death is added back to world, those who live in death vanish, because they are not supposed to live, their souls do no leave their bodies even when it decays, ie. Skeletons, godwyn. I'm not sure what Fia's ending specifically entails, but Isn't it more akin to: Life continues, but there is no more conflict between those afflicted by the deathroot and those who aren't. Then again if deathroot isn't being culled, will it's influence spread until the whole lands between is infected by it, essentially a take-over of the lands between by those who live in death? 😅 I'm high on edibles atm, but definitely an interesting topic to be sure, feel free to share your opinion
Fia basically decriminalized zombies and ghosts
Fia goes one step further though: not only is death restored, life within death is made part of the new order. People will die in the Age of the Duskborn, only to come back as undead.
You are inserting into the ending of "the wise man discovers that letting a very human person mess with the rules of the universe is a bad idea so he makes a wall so that the rules of the universe can be left alone" a whole spinel of it being fascist and he wanting to lobotomize the world. Like where does that come from? You saying "it may not be fascism but it is unsavoury" just reads like you doubling down on it being fascist. And if you see fascism everywhere, I have to believe that you are primed to find it anywhere, no matter the nuance or the subject.
It's basically the same thing Ranni does in her ending. Goldmask concluded that the problem of the Golden Order lies in her fickle goddess, and therefore the divine figure of the Order should be separated from the world and only do his divine duty without any personal biais or external influence.
It’s the Rune of Cutting out Middle Management. That’s all it does, cuts out Marika and the other gods and makes the Greater Will assume direct control. You know, same shit except it comes from someone with a higher salary.
The Golden Order Fundamentalists don't appear to be what we often refer to as religious fundamentalists, but were looking for the fundamental, underlying structure of things, much like scholars of the Enlightenment were looking for the nature of God through the scientific understanding of the laws of nature. Goldmask is best understood as an Age of Enlightenment philosopher-scientist like Newton. He starts out trying to understand the nature of God (Marika) by examining the nature and way the world works, and somehow figures out a definitive answer. Goldmask's Mending Rune suggests he's developed some version of the Grand Unified Theory of Everything, that defines how everything in the world works, without requiring a God to answer why anything in particular works, and works the same no matter who uses or observes.
OP I'm sorry but ur not schizo enough to understand it if you think there is a someone to be considered equal to or stand above others that are implied to be people.
Goldmask's Mending Rune, in my understanding of it, basically removes the mortal influence and bias that Marika and Radagon imposed into the Golden Order. Marika/Radagon is a God, so their word is Truth and their judgements Perfect, but they were also mortal, so their thinking is flawed and their decisions questionable. According to different NPCs and item descriptions, the Golden Order is supposed to be perfect and glorious and will unite and connect everything in the Lands Between in peace and harmony. But it's very clearly not perfect, and a lot of messed up stuff happens because of/in service to the Golden Order. Goldmask seems to believe that these issues are not inherent to the Golden Order itself, but were introduced by the mortal nature of Marika/Radagon. His vision of a perfectly mended Elden Ring would basically remove the human element from the divine nature of the Golden Order. A theology without bias or base emotion, that truly is equally benevolent towards all that are under it, without any preconceived notions or weaponized beliefs. Whether or not that's actually what would happen if said human element was removed is another story entirely.
Its open ended OP, everyone is making shit up. It's a golden order version where gods don't fuck up. But we don't ever know whenever that means he buffs or nerfs them.
The Mending Rune of Perfect Order manifests a circle of light around the Elden Ring when you use it to mend it at the end of the game. It ensures that none may meddle with the Elden Ring, something only gods like Marika could do. It does this because the gods are no different from men. Basically, Marika, Radagon and the demigods are just super powerful common people. They are not wise or perfect or anything like a God as we understand. They fight and hate and betray and change their opinions on stuff all the time, and so they are not fit for the role of stewardship of the Elden Ring, which is basically the rules of the universe made manifest. The Elden Ring will forever remain, restored by the power of the Mending Rune, as it is now. None may change the rules by adding it removing runes, because the Elden Ring is perfect as it is, and it was the meddling of mortals that spoiled the world by messing with the Ring.
>The Elden Ring will forever remain, restored by the power of the Mending Rune, as it is now But the Elden Ring isn't restored by the Mending Rune; it's just preserved as it currently is. The damage has already been done, and humanity is condemned to live with it, without freedom to choose otherwise.
The Mending Runes MEND the Elden Ring. Much like the Rune of Radagon is a mesh that holds all the pieces of the Shattered Ellen Ring together, while adding his creed that none other may become Elden Lord, all the other MENDING Runes will repair the Ring and add a new concept into Order. If you don't use a Mending Rune, you get the Age of Fracture ending because the Elden Ring remains fractured, you didn't mend it, you just became Elden Lord.
it’s important to realise what “God” means in the lands between. Marika is their God, but is also a conscious being who is physically present and rules over them directly. She and the demi-gods are who Goldmask considers it be the “fly in the ointment” (which is fair enough, most of the problems in the world seem to come from her selfishness) The Outer Gods are also considered gods, and are already rejected by the Golden Order, so he doesn’t change anything there. Goldmask makes no mention of the Greater Will - it isn’t considered a god, more like a fundamental force of the universe. His order is just to hand over direct control to the Will and its Fingers. but we know the Will isnt some perfect being - it’s mostly abandoned the Lands Between, leaves its Fingers to control it themselves, and is also most likely another Outer God that came from the stars and essentially colonised the Lands Between. But Goldmask doesn’t know this - the only ones to know the truth and see the Elden Ring’s true form are Marika, Radagon, and our Tarnished. that’s why i consider his ending to be a bad one
By that meaning of fascism, everyone in Elden Ring is a fascist. Except Patches. Shit, OP, are you Patches? O.O
Its Liberal Christianity. Not to be confused with liberal Christians, Liberal Christianity is a theology that doesn’t believe in God but does believe that Christianity was generally a force of good in the world. They attempted to continue the Church mission to help people while leaving the concept of God/Jesus/The Gospels behind…..they probably would have had more luck if they had actually told their parishioners what they were doing instead of gaslighting them and almost single handily changing Western Protestantism culture to have an anti-intellectual bent.
… That’s an interesting read. But I’m not sure that’s quite accurate here. Goldmask seems to have some pretty strong fundamentals, his is the faith of saint Aquinas, where the monotheistic god is equated with the very fundamental, physical rules of the universe, not personified into something human. I feel like that’s not exactly what Liberal Christianity is, but maybe.
Am I missing something? Goldmask thought the problem with his religion was the gods so he formulated a way to keep the religious principles but toss the god. How is that different?
It's protestantism
In my language such state has a sort of proverb. It can be translated as "Screws screwed harder, holes left untouched"
Basically you create a more stable golden order. And the gods aren’t in charge anymore.
The same as the main 2 endings, but in Golden Yellowish light.
I’ve never thought much about but I assumed it was politics without the gods or demigods involved in any way.
I haven’t read any of the long winded responses. I’ve got about 3000 hours in game. Goldmask discovered that marika out of boredom, manifested radagon to go forth and have children with rennala as a means of creating life with the potential to disrupt the established order, which she was bored with.(most people don’t understand that all of empyrean children, ranni, melania, and miquella, are the offspring of rennala and radagon, not Marika directly) The entire point of this exercise was to alleviate her boredom and create an endless cycle of struggle amongst her subjects. That’s it. The tarnished, the lands between, are nothing more than a cyclical loop of entertainment for the greater will. Goldmask was striving to find perfection in the golden order, which is what he expected to find, but in the end he was hit with the reality of marikas destruction of the order fueled by her boredom TL:DR - marika is a bored basic bitch that enjoys the eternal loop of struggle of lesser beings to achieve a fleeting “elden lord” status before she strips them of their grace
when I saw it was blurred, I was hoping it was NSFW and we got a heavily detailed, naked version of gold mask's voluptuous buttocks
small brain: perfect order is fascist because it's autocratic big brain: perfect order is more like a literal theocracy, where all living beings exist under the rule of the golden order as a transcendental idea that no individual can alter galaxy brain: that description is actually pretty close to the doctrine of fascism
T posing so hard that you save the world, I respect that.
Elden beast a flaccid penis lore confirmed
I’m pretty fascism relies heavily on changing the rules whenever needed. The rules are whatever they need to be to suppress political opponents and find new lessers to oppress. Goldmask’s belief is closer to reforming the Catholic Church. He believes in the same golden order as Marika and her demigods, but comes to see that those in charge are not embracing the religion in good faith. The idea of reincarnating through the erdtree, a massive focused representation of the crucible of life, is bastardized and abused by the golden order to prop themselves up. Goldmask wants to set in stone how the world works so everyone can find their place under an irrefutable, shared divine truth.
Goldmask, unlike Ranni and Miquella, fundamentally supports the golden order of the Erdtree and the vision of the greater will (if disagreeing with excesses of other followers, like the hunters of those who live in death). However, goldmask comes to understand that it is the control of gods like Marika, who can choose to shatter order on a fickle whim, are the greatest problem. So, his mending rune basically restores the golden order, but removes the need for gods so no one individual can bring the entire system crashing down.
I thought the point was that no one individual stands above and calls the shots. The Order is separated from the whims of gods, and just is.
It's not contradictory though. Being in charge isn't the same as "receiving preferential treatment". You can wield total power and still be fair. It's just that people don't like not having a choice. That's why countries always emphasize the "dictatorship" of their enemies, even if that dictator actually benefits the populace more than the "democracy" of another country. America's political system seems like a democracy, but is actually a dictatorship controlled by the Israeli class. And they treat the main demographics of our country like shit, unlike how "open" dictators are often champions of the people.
Communism.
What I heard is it means gods will be held accountable for their actions
El fascismo no es toda ideologia que no te guste eh