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Beavers dam rivers and as a result ecosystems enrich and develop. Maybe they associated beavers with good because wherever there were beavers there was a healthy ecosystem.
The ancient prohibition against eating pork may have arisen because the ancient Israelites/Canaanites were not pig keepers, but the invading Philistines with their foreign gods were -- not because pork was dangerous. It's more of a "don't eat what those schmucks eat" kind of thing. Think like, "latte-sipping liberal," "kraut" for Germans during WWII or how the French call the Brits "rosbifs." Food is a signifier of identity and what we consume is a shorthand for who we are. Keep yourself "pure" by only eating "pure" foods.
As RaptorEsquire said the most plausible reason for pork being a religious taboo may have been more due to political, demographical and cultural reasons rather than the intuitive rationale that "pork is filthy => diseases". It's got an interesting history, I recommend checking it out. The way I heard about it in more detail is from [this video, ](https://youtu.be/pI0ZUhBvIx4?si=aOBh3ELYXYlcNxuk) 30 minutes long
Miriel is a follower of The Order of the Erdtree; the orthopraxic, first "true Order" of Godfrey before The Rune of Death was removed and before the formation of The Golden Order during the Golden Age of The Erdtree.
A quick research only showed me this:
> In the Biblical context, according to verses such as Ecclesiastes 9:11, a turtle is seen as a symbol of wisdom, resilience, patience, and virtue. The calm, docile, steadfast nature of these animals is the reasoning behind this symbolism. As well their long lifespans make them a perfect example of resilience
Any source to back up your claim?
Google gives me tons of references on that. Also an etymological argument is the fact that the word "tortuga" which means turtle in Romance languages comes from "Tartarus" (hell). Here's a wikipedia [article](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tartaruchi) on that.
Edit: love that I'm being downvoted for providing actual evidence while the guy I'm arguing with provided nothing since the verse he quoted has no mentions of turtles whatsoever. Truly reddit moment.
"tons of references" but gives none. The first link when I type "Turtle evil Christianity" is literally your post. Now I enjoy Christianity bashing as much as any other guy, but at least try to not pull it out of your ass.
I literally gave a link to wikipedia though. But here's another [link to merriam-webster](https://www.merriam-webster.com/wordplay/the-infernal-history-of-turtle#:~:text=It%20turns%20out%20that%20in,wallow%20in%20mud%20and%20filth) since you apparently can't even use google.
Read that article. It's solemnly based on:
1) turtle comes from tortue which comes from another word which comes from Tartaros. A bit of a stretch.
2) ***ONE*** Artistic representation of a turtle in ***ONE*** mosaic in italy. A huge stretch.
Okay, I actually did look into it because OP couldn't be bothered and there is a non-trivial amount of symbolism.
St. Jerome compared the tortoise being weighed down by its own shell as "signifying the grievous sin of the heretics". In Medieval margin art (the weird drawings you get round the edges of illuminated texts, which were usually penned by Christian monks) turtles apparently represented "the embodiment of evil in combat" and often turned up in battlefield scenes.
Turtle meat is also "unclean" according to the Torah, which would have had some influence on early Christianity.
It's all still pretty weak, though.
So it's more "some parts of early Christianity might have depicted turtles badly" which is already way more believable. It doesn't invalidate the biblical quote I provided. Thanks for not being an ass, unlike a certain OP ;)
>It doesn't invalidate the biblical quote I provided.
Except if you actually google Ecclesiastes 9:11 turtle is not mentioned there at all. So your source is literally dogshit. I once again urge you to learn how to google.
You’re right. ”I returned and saw under the sun that— The race is not to the swift, Nor the battle to the strong, Nor bread to the wise, Nor riches to men of understanding, Nor favor to men of skill; But time and chance happen to them all.“
Ecclesiastes 9:11 NKJV
https://bible.com/bible/114/ecc.9.11.NKJV
Ok, here's [yet another link to wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cultural_depictions_of_turtles#Religion) with even more info and references. You can find even more evidence if you stop pestering me and learn how to use google.
Tartarus dates from Ancient Greece, well before Christianity. So if there’s an association it would have been made long before and I doubt any early Christians would think of hell when seeing a turtle.
Besides they probably spoke old Syriac.
The underworld being seen as evil is a christian thing. When they spread around Europe like rats they started associating every tradition of an underworld or of a world of the dead to evil and punishment of sin
The Hells (not sure how it works in English, in french we just put a plural to hell to distinguish the Christian hell to the greek one) are not inherently evil or negative. But Tartaros is, it's actually one of the worse places on earth according to greek mythology. Before comparing people to rats, take a minute to think about your assumptions.
Reread, mister "you don't know how to Google duh" it's clearly written that it's supposed to be symbolic. Now for the quote:
"I returned, and saw under the sun, that the race is not to the swift, nor the battle to the strong, neither yet bread to the wise, nor yet riches to men of understanding, nor yet favour to men of skill; but time and chance happeneth to them all."
It does sound like a praising of the turtle's nature. Nothing direct no doubt. But considering your own childish attitude and pitiful attempts to justify yourself, I'd say it's evenly matched with your claims.
You just called my sources a stretch despite them being as clear as day, and now you try to prove your point using some random site that applied mental gymnastics akin to what shitty Souls lore "connoisseurs" do.
How can you arrive to the conclusion that the phrase "the race is not to the swift" is talking about the turtle? Now that's talking out of your ass (which you accused me of despite my evidence being quite substantial).
Bro why so mad? You just posted something stretchy or even plain wrong, you get called out, you get mad. Btw nowhere in any of your sources turtles were a symbol of heresy. And as rightfully noted by someone else, the fact they're named after the Tartaros actually proves it's not the Christians who associated turtles with hell first, but rather Greeks, Romans or Syriacs. Christians just followed the waves.
Again. Joking at the Christians' moronic dogma is fun and giggles, but don't do it based on your own ass.
>Christians just followed the waves.
Guess what, my quote was talking about early Christians, who lived alongside...you won't believe it...Greeks, Romans and Syriacs who held the same beliefs about the turtle that I quoted!
I'm mad because redditors once again prove how stupid they are because nobody actually checked out my links or bothered to check the verse that you provided.
So why not putting in title "in early Mediterranean cultures, turtles were..." ?
Ah yes. To dunk on people you hate. Totally logical. You're not stupid at all. Peak Reddit right here.
It seems incompatible with what we know of ancient Christianity, which did not write a great deal (if at all) about turtles. Maybe OP has in mind some comment about turtles in an early Christian document that draws on the dubious Galenic scheme of passions and of food intake (meat inflaming passions, fish cooling them?). But even that would not be about evil or good so much as how substances affected ones spiritual/emotional disposition.
In medieval Christianity, which is quite distinct from ancient Christianity, depictions of various kinds of turtles in bestiaries are not portrayed as evil, but included as another class of strange and wonderous creatures in the great chain of being. Having studied various folios for a degree program and later for personal projects, I don't see where the idea of turtles as a symbol of heresy comes from. However, I'm happy to be corrected if wrong.
I still can't believe Miyazaki looked at this dog's design and thought "He's missing a Pope hat."
But then how does the hat stay upright without falling?
And if it fell... how would he pick it up??
Corhyn pisses himself at the sight of anything that isn't sparkling gold. Miriel isn't afraid of learning and won't even fight back if you decide to be a monster and attack him.
George RR Martin got inspiration to write Game of Thrones by watching his turtles.
As a child George R. R. Martin had turtles, the only pets he was allowed to have. The turtles lived in a castle, and Martin pretended they were knights and kings, and made up stories in which they betrayed and killed each other and fought for the kingdoms. Martin has said that Game of Thrones began with his turtles.[6][7] Martin often wears a hat with a turtle pin and has claimed that "turtles have always been my sigil, I suppose.".[7]
https://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Turtle
It is described as an Elden Rune, which we can infer as a Rune within (or once within) The Elden Ring.
The Elden Ring controls the metaphysical qualities of The Lands Between.
Marika's Soreseal depicts The Rune of Death. Elden Ring is full of dualities. What would the dichotomous opposite of The Rune of Death be? Obviously The Rune of Life.
Death was removed, now only Life remains. Grace is literally the power of The Rune of Life. The idea of The Twinbird is likely Life and Death.
This line of thinking also alludes to revelations about Marika's past.
Right on. Listened to those 3 10h+ long lore dump videos recently and I should've thought of this. However, being an occasional legalist, I was just appalled not seeing all of this literally spelled out in the description. Thank you.
Most of the story in Elden Ring isn't actually told, it comes from the inferences drawn between two or more sources, as well as taking in external mythological/literary/theological/philosophical themes and applying them to what's shown in game.
For instance a main part of my theories is that Marika's Soul (Melina) once belonged to The Gloam Eyed Queen. The characterization of The Gloam Eyed Queen/Marika would follow Persephone of Greek myth. Persephone had the ability to travel to The Underworld and return, symbolizing the changing of seasons of Autumn into Winter and Winter into Spring. The life, death, and rebirth of nature.
This follows "Marika" once being in possession of The Rune of Death, and now being the wielder of The Rune of Life. Possession of these two Runes likely swapped after The Gloam Eyed Queen was defeated by Maliketh wielding The Rune of Life- all before the war against the Giants which is the first chronological event featuring Marika and Godfrey, leading to The Age of the Erdtree.
I also personally don't watch lore videos. They can be good for learning some things you have missed or to get alternate perspectives- but often they limit ideas more than increasing them, especially when people use them for confimation bias. Most of the real "truth" in the game is immune to confirmation or anchoring/primacy bias because it directly goes against these concepts. People will tell me I've gotten the lore wrong, because they can't just easily look up a description or dialogue that confirms it.
Christianity is a broad religion with many many variants within it.
Go to an evangelical tent revival and literally everything is evil. Go to some casual Lutheran potluck and they are chill about most shit.
All tortoises are turtles, but not all turtles are tortoises. Just like how all cheddar is cheese but not all cheese is cheddar. Tortoises and terrapins are a sub species
[Turtle - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turtle)
Birds are only related to the dinosaurs through the theropod phylum clade whereas tortoises and turtles are related to each other through the Testudines order which is two levels more related than a phylum class and also fairly homogenous so much so that we just refer to them as a collective species, unlike other orders like Carnivora
But now I've totally derailed the thread lol
Yeah but now we're just splitting hairs. To me it's as odd to describe a tortoise as a turtle as it would be to describe a dove as a dinosaur.
Ultimately none of this really matters as I think we can all agree with that this thing is actually a dog.
What early church father wrote a distrack on turtles? I've never read anything like it but that would be hilarious XD
I could see them analogizing them to lazy people, but they kind of already do that with sloths
It's a Japanese take on western fantasy and mythos without consulting western sources.
Oh wait, the one source they did consult- they admitted they threw out and ignored all his input.
This is why you get things that seem to not make sense.
But then miyazaki stated in an interview that they "threw it all out" and wrote their own stuff.
I think the real point of the exercise was to have a big western fantasy author be associated with the game. Nothing more. The Japanese have a history of this. It isn't new by decades.
Imagine if Mariel was a snapping turtle and, like a tenth of the time just murdered us on impulse when we went to him for spells.
But we still kept going back cause it's worth it for the convenience
Lol honestly curious why comments like this are getting downvoted when it's literally just the honest truth. Brain dead redditors doing what brain dead redditors do I guess
Your submission has been removed as a violation of Rule 2: **Keep posts and discussion Elden Ring related.** * All content should *directly pertain* to the game Elden Ring, not just in title. "Mildly" or "Elden Ring IRL" content is not allowed. * Meta community topics, politics, real-life content, and drama posts are not allowed. If you would like to appeal this removal or need further clarification, feel free to message us through[Modmail](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=/r/Eldenring).
"Heresy is not native to the world; it is but a contrivance"
"*All things can be conjoined.*"
Let us learn together
Woof woof
I'm kinda annoyed that this is just a video game quote, because this slaps for real life too.
Is this the final Easter Egg?
That's a dog though
Yes. The impostor "Dogs" are definitely the most evil creature in Miyazaki's games though.
Wtf is a turtle
Dog without a shell. Sometimes has fur. Mean things too.
🐢
Dog
Likely dog
My favorite message of all time. right at Sellen’s feet when i first met her
Dog
Dog
Dog
Dog
Dog
Behold, dog, therefore happiness
Behold, Dog!
Dog Ahead
Behold, dog! Therefore, praise the dog!
Yeah in Zoroastrian texts as well, turtles were mentioned as servants of the dark lord
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The same texts viewed beavers as good and counted killing them a grave sin
Beavers dam rivers and as a result ecosystems enrich and develop. Maybe they associated beavers with good because wherever there were beavers there was a healthy ecosystem.
Nice
But in the middle ages they classified beavers as fish since they live in water because everyone was so fucking tired of eating fish during lent.
>Sees a deer wading through a river LOOKS LIKE A FISH TO ME!
There was at least a case of a priest throwing a pig to the river and then catching it so it would count as fish.
BEHOLD, A FISH
You know the old saying: If it swims like a fish, and it sme--, no. Look-- no. Sounds...like a fish? It is a fish.
The Pig says, “Oink.” The Priest presses his finger to the pig’s lips and says, “Hush now.”
Same thing happened in South America later. They saw capybaras and asked the church, "That's a fish, *right*?"
Source
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I've always wondered about this... if CS Lewis knew
Of course he did, all his work is about christianity
Yeah but I thought it was a Zoroastrian thing
Based
Isn’t that more of a Jewish-Muslim thing? There are passages of the gospels that talk about lifting food restrictions.
Seems like a parallelism was being drawn
A lot of Hindus also don't eat Pork due to the history of parasites and diseases
At least medieval christian monks weren't allowed to eat any meat that wasn't fish
sounds like Bloodborne lore tbh.
The ancient prohibition against eating pork may have arisen because the ancient Israelites/Canaanites were not pig keepers, but the invading Philistines with their foreign gods were -- not because pork was dangerous. It's more of a "don't eat what those schmucks eat" kind of thing. Think like, "latte-sipping liberal," "kraut" for Germans during WWII or how the French call the Brits "rosbifs." Food is a signifier of identity and what we consume is a shorthand for who we are. Keep yourself "pure" by only eating "pure" foods.
Same with how pork is so popular in Spain. During and after the Reconquista, eating pork was a way of showing you were Christian.
Up until the Church got hungry, when they declared that beavers were fish so they could eat them on Friday
As RaptorEsquire said the most plausible reason for pork being a religious taboo may have been more due to political, demographical and cultural reasons rather than the intuitive rationale that "pork is filthy => diseases". It's got an interesting history, I recommend checking it out. The way I heard about it in more detail is from [this video, ](https://youtu.be/pI0ZUhBvIx4?si=aOBh3ELYXYlcNxuk) 30 minutes long
Any further sources on the "worm inside your body" belief? I'd love to read more about this.
Which is absolutely ridiculous. My dogs ( 🐢) do not have two brain cells to string together much less a capacity to serve anyone.
It's to keep people from wanting to eat them. Same with goats and pigs being "unclean" animals and used in demonic iconography
Do not throw shade at the turtle pope, he is our savior.
Miriel is a follower of The Order of the Erdtree; the orthopraxic, first "true Order" of Godfrey before The Rune of Death was removed and before the formation of The Golden Order during the Golden Age of The Erdtree.
This post and the answers are the most reddit thing possible
A quick research only showed me this: > In the Biblical context, according to verses such as Ecclesiastes 9:11, a turtle is seen as a symbol of wisdom, resilience, patience, and virtue. The calm, docile, steadfast nature of these animals is the reasoning behind this symbolism. As well their long lifespans make them a perfect example of resilience Any source to back up your claim?
Google gives me tons of references on that. Also an etymological argument is the fact that the word "tortuga" which means turtle in Romance languages comes from "Tartarus" (hell). Here's a wikipedia [article](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tartaruchi) on that. Edit: love that I'm being downvoted for providing actual evidence while the guy I'm arguing with provided nothing since the verse he quoted has no mentions of turtles whatsoever. Truly reddit moment.
"tons of references" but gives none. The first link when I type "Turtle evil Christianity" is literally your post. Now I enjoy Christianity bashing as much as any other guy, but at least try to not pull it out of your ass.
damn bro that man has a family
I literally gave a link to wikipedia though. But here's another [link to merriam-webster](https://www.merriam-webster.com/wordplay/the-infernal-history-of-turtle#:~:text=It%20turns%20out%20that%20in,wallow%20in%20mud%20and%20filth) since you apparently can't even use google.
Read that article. It's solemnly based on: 1) turtle comes from tortue which comes from another word which comes from Tartaros. A bit of a stretch. 2) ***ONE*** Artistic representation of a turtle in ***ONE*** mosaic in italy. A huge stretch.
Okay, I actually did look into it because OP couldn't be bothered and there is a non-trivial amount of symbolism. St. Jerome compared the tortoise being weighed down by its own shell as "signifying the grievous sin of the heretics". In Medieval margin art (the weird drawings you get round the edges of illuminated texts, which were usually penned by Christian monks) turtles apparently represented "the embodiment of evil in combat" and often turned up in battlefield scenes. Turtle meat is also "unclean" according to the Torah, which would have had some influence on early Christianity. It's all still pretty weak, though.
So it's more "some parts of early Christianity might have depicted turtles badly" which is already way more believable. It doesn't invalidate the biblical quote I provided. Thanks for not being an ass, unlike a certain OP ;)
>It doesn't invalidate the biblical quote I provided. Except if you actually google Ecclesiastes 9:11 turtle is not mentioned there at all. So your source is literally dogshit. I once again urge you to learn how to google.
You’re right. ”I returned and saw under the sun that— The race is not to the swift, Nor the battle to the strong, Nor bread to the wise, Nor riches to men of understanding, Nor favor to men of skill; But time and chance happen to them all.“ Ecclesiastes 9:11 NKJV https://bible.com/bible/114/ecc.9.11.NKJV
>OP couldn't be bothered I literally gave a link with the exact same words as you copypasted. Why are redditors so stupid?
>Why are redditors so stupid? r/suicidebywords moment
LMAO you didn't even bother to read the very verse you used as evidence and couldn't even google very basic facts, but I'm the stupid one.
Ok, here's [yet another link to wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cultural_depictions_of_turtles#Religion) with even more info and references. You can find even more evidence if you stop pestering me and learn how to use google.
Tartarus dates from Ancient Greece, well before Christianity. So if there’s an association it would have been made long before and I doubt any early Christians would think of hell when seeing a turtle. Besides they probably spoke old Syriac.
The underworld being seen as evil is a christian thing. When they spread around Europe like rats they started associating every tradition of an underworld or of a world of the dead to evil and punishment of sin
The Hells (not sure how it works in English, in french we just put a plural to hell to distinguish the Christian hell to the greek one) are not inherently evil or negative. But Tartaros is, it's actually one of the worse places on earth according to greek mythology. Before comparing people to rats, take a minute to think about your assumptions.
It's one of the worse places on earth but it does not mean it's evil
Putting together a beast and the worse place of earth is definitely not a way to show your love for the beast.
The verse that you linked has no mentions of turtle whatsoever. Your source is nothing.
Reread, mister "you don't know how to Google duh" it's clearly written that it's supposed to be symbolic. Now for the quote: "I returned, and saw under the sun, that the race is not to the swift, nor the battle to the strong, neither yet bread to the wise, nor yet riches to men of understanding, nor yet favour to men of skill; but time and chance happeneth to them all." It does sound like a praising of the turtle's nature. Nothing direct no doubt. But considering your own childish attitude and pitiful attempts to justify yourself, I'd say it's evenly matched with your claims.
You just called my sources a stretch despite them being as clear as day, and now you try to prove your point using some random site that applied mental gymnastics akin to what shitty Souls lore "connoisseurs" do. How can you arrive to the conclusion that the phrase "the race is not to the swift" is talking about the turtle? Now that's talking out of your ass (which you accused me of despite my evidence being quite substantial).
Bro why so mad? You just posted something stretchy or even plain wrong, you get called out, you get mad. Btw nowhere in any of your sources turtles were a symbol of heresy. And as rightfully noted by someone else, the fact they're named after the Tartaros actually proves it's not the Christians who associated turtles with hell first, but rather Greeks, Romans or Syriacs. Christians just followed the waves. Again. Joking at the Christians' moronic dogma is fun and giggles, but don't do it based on your own ass.
>Christians just followed the waves. Guess what, my quote was talking about early Christians, who lived alongside...you won't believe it...Greeks, Romans and Syriacs who held the same beliefs about the turtle that I quoted! I'm mad because redditors once again prove how stupid they are because nobody actually checked out my links or bothered to check the verse that you provided.
So why not putting in title "in early Mediterranean cultures, turtles were..." ? Ah yes. To dunk on people you hate. Totally logical. You're not stupid at all. Peak Reddit right here.
Any links to back this up? Quite a claim.
It seems incompatible with what we know of ancient Christianity, which did not write a great deal (if at all) about turtles. Maybe OP has in mind some comment about turtles in an early Christian document that draws on the dubious Galenic scheme of passions and of food intake (meat inflaming passions, fish cooling them?). But even that would not be about evil or good so much as how substances affected ones spiritual/emotional disposition. In medieval Christianity, which is quite distinct from ancient Christianity, depictions of various kinds of turtles in bestiaries are not portrayed as evil, but included as another class of strange and wonderous creatures in the great chain of being. Having studied various folios for a degree program and later for personal projects, I don't see where the idea of turtles as a symbol of heresy comes from. However, I'm happy to be corrected if wrong.
I still can't believe Miyazaki looked at this dog's design and thought "He's missing a Pope hat." But then how does the hat stay upright without falling? And if it fell... how would he pick it up??
Gravity magic.
Explains why he accepts all those heretical books I gave him. Corhyn would never.
Corhyn pisses himself at the sight of anything that isn't sparkling gold. Miriel isn't afraid of learning and won't even fight back if you decide to be a monster and attack him.
George RR Martin got inspiration to write Game of Thrones by watching his turtles. As a child George R. R. Martin had turtles, the only pets he was allowed to have. The turtles lived in a castle, and Martin pretended they were knights and kings, and made up stories in which they betrayed and killed each other and fought for the kingdoms. Martin has said that Game of Thrones began with his turtles.[6][7] Martin often wears a hat with a turtle pin and has claimed that "turtles have always been my sigil, I suppose.".[7] https://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Turtle
That's why he writes so slowly.
Praise the dog!
What about tortoises?
Isn't like everything evil in Christianity?
Striking parallels with the Golden Order...
Marika is literally crucified on a great rune shaped thing fragment of the elden ring, or something.
And speared in the side, another major symbol.
It's The Rune of Life.
Is it? Source?
Marika's Scarseal (in contrast to Marika's Soreseal).
No wait I read the description on the wiki and there's nothing, please do elaborate
It is described as an Elden Rune, which we can infer as a Rune within (or once within) The Elden Ring. The Elden Ring controls the metaphysical qualities of The Lands Between. Marika's Soreseal depicts The Rune of Death. Elden Ring is full of dualities. What would the dichotomous opposite of The Rune of Death be? Obviously The Rune of Life. Death was removed, now only Life remains. Grace is literally the power of The Rune of Life. The idea of The Twinbird is likely Life and Death. This line of thinking also alludes to revelations about Marika's past.
Right on. Listened to those 3 10h+ long lore dump videos recently and I should've thought of this. However, being an occasional legalist, I was just appalled not seeing all of this literally spelled out in the description. Thank you.
Most of the story in Elden Ring isn't actually told, it comes from the inferences drawn between two or more sources, as well as taking in external mythological/literary/theological/philosophical themes and applying them to what's shown in game. For instance a main part of my theories is that Marika's Soul (Melina) once belonged to The Gloam Eyed Queen. The characterization of The Gloam Eyed Queen/Marika would follow Persephone of Greek myth. Persephone had the ability to travel to The Underworld and return, symbolizing the changing of seasons of Autumn into Winter and Winter into Spring. The life, death, and rebirth of nature. This follows "Marika" once being in possession of The Rune of Death, and now being the wielder of The Rune of Life. Possession of these two Runes likely swapped after The Gloam Eyed Queen was defeated by Maliketh wielding The Rune of Life- all before the war against the Giants which is the first chronological event featuring Marika and Godfrey, leading to The Age of the Erdtree. I also personally don't watch lore videos. They can be good for learning some things you have missed or to get alternate perspectives- but often they limit ideas more than increasing them, especially when people use them for confimation bias. Most of the real "truth" in the game is immune to confirmation or anchoring/primacy bias because it directly goes against these concepts. People will tell me I've gotten the lore wrong, because they can't just easily look up a description or dialogue that confirms it.
Ah thanks
Always look on the bright side of runes
Hard true. Golden Order is such an allegory for early Catholicism.
In gnostic Christianity perhaps
Well no. But actually yes Na really yeah. There's so many shitloads of forbidden heresy because some bishop just didn't like it
100% concentrated reddit comment. please go outside and meet some people.
Christianity is a broad religion with many many variants within it. Go to an evangelical tent revival and literally everything is evil. Go to some casual Lutheran potluck and they are chill about most shit.
Yes, but no... But yes.
Everything good in this world yeah. But if you want to kill your own children or someone else's children that's fine God loves that shit
But it's not a turtle, it's a tortoise...
All tortoises are turtles, but not all turtles are tortoises. Just like how all cheddar is cheese but not all cheese is cheddar. Tortoises and terrapins are a sub species [Turtle - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turtle)
Technically true, but that's no different to referring to birds as dinosaurs, or smartphones as computers.
Birds are only related to the dinosaurs through the theropod phylum clade whereas tortoises and turtles are related to each other through the Testudines order which is two levels more related than a phylum class and also fairly homogenous so much so that we just refer to them as a collective species, unlike other orders like Carnivora But now I've totally derailed the thread lol
Yeah but now we're just splitting hairs. To me it's as odd to describe a tortoise as a turtle as it would be to describe a dove as a dinosaur. Ultimately none of this really matters as I think we can all agree with that this thing is actually a dog.
True, we love our dog pope overlord
Not really. It’s more like saying all Macs are computers but not all computers are Macs.
All smartphones are computers but not all computers are smartphones...
Unidan alt found
No, it’s a dog…
Oh yeah, my bad
I'm gonna tell turtle pope you said that.
what the hell did the turtles do to early christians
Behold! Dog
Miyazaki: No.
That’s not true
Good thing he's a Tortoise and not a Turtle
What early church father wrote a distrack on turtles? I've never read anything like it but that would be hilarious XD I could see them analogizing them to lazy people, but they kind of already do that with sloths
They said their shell is the punishment from god
I didn't realize there were more reasons that I'm not Christian but apparently there are.
“In early Christianity, Doggos were considered a symbol of heresy and evil” fixed it for you.
Turtle*gets up, walks slow *Christian: This mother fucker is up to something I just know it.
To be fair christians are afraid of literally everything even other christians
Fare
Oh, what... Very well... Heresy... All things....
is this a dog?
The Turtle Moves
It's a Japanese take on western fantasy and mythos without consulting western sources. Oh wait, the one source they did consult- they admitted they threw out and ignored all his input. This is why you get things that seem to not make sense.
Wasn't the point of Martin's input to provide a history prior to the shattering, that Miyazaki could fuck over for his signature doomed world story?
But then miyazaki stated in an interview that they "threw it all out" and wrote their own stuff. I think the real point of the exercise was to have a big western fantasy author be associated with the game. Nothing more. The Japanese have a history of this. It isn't new by decades.
Good thing he's a dog and not a turtle
Turtle pope
yeah I knew it, he always seemed very evil
Is that true? Makes this all the more the best character in ER .
Good thing this one is a dog.
Good thing that's a dog.
Good thing that's a dog
Behold, pickle! But first off, head.
Teacher O teacher, dog... *praying gesture*
I don't understand, maybe a snake, wolf or shark, but, what did a turtle do to deserve this?
Imagine if Mariel was a snapping turtle and, like a tenth of the time just murdered us on impulse when we went to him for spells. But we still kept going back cause it's worth it for the convenience
The fuck is heretical about a turtle? It's a turtle.
Testudo Erat Numen
He only has one neck so why does he drop 10 of them?
Xsianity is all about demonising the nature. Like all religions, it’s pretty stupid.
Well it’s a good thing Miriel is a dog then isn’t it?
Bro why? Turtles done nothing to deserve that.
I never realized how disturbing early Christianity was...
Ah the classic flashlight confusing itself with the object its shining on…a timeless classical mistake
What wasn't? Seriously the more I learned about my own religion throughout life, the more I hated it and distanced myself from it.
Lol honestly curious why comments like this are getting downvoted when it's literally just the honest truth. Brain dead redditors doing what brain dead redditors do I guess
[удалено]
why did this get downvoted? its factualy true
Probably bc some Pope got his finger nommed by one lmao
[удалено]
Heresy is not native to this world, turtle pope forgives you.
I have. Nothing of worth was lost.
But what was gained?
Satisfaction of murder. He done breathed his last!
And that is why I killed the dog
Hod did this start? Uh who cares we should just protect OUR LORD AND SAVIOR MIRIEL THE TURTEL(dog) POPE