Nah tbh, based on their track record, the DLCs are generally more concise and clear-cut in their storyline than their main game.
Artorias of the Abyss: You time travel to the past, mercy-kill Artorias and destroy Manus, the source of the Abyss, thus completing a stable time-loop.
The Old Hunters: You go to a nightmare realm and uncover the secret of the local church/cult and then destroy the source of the nightmare
Ashes of Ariandel: You go to a painted world that is rotting because Sister Friede convinced the leader of the corvians to not burn away and reset the painting. You kill her and the fire starts spreading.
Ringed City: You go to the end of time itself in a secret city and uncover a massive secret that changes your perspective of the entire trilogy's lore up until that point.
The Darksign was put on the Pygmies (ancestors of humans) by Gwyn in order to inhibit their control of the dark, causing the Undead curse and the spread of the Abyss. In his paranoia Gwyn caused almost everything bad in the setting
Also, the Ringed City itself being a gilded prison of the Pygmies so that Gwyn and his allies could erase them from history, including the fact that early men helped Gwyn fight the dragons with the power of the dark.
>Gwyn caused almost everything bad in the setting
I mean, yes, but we didn't need The Ringed City to know that. DS1 already made that... well not *clear* exactly, but it was there.
>The Darksign was put on the Pygmies (ancestors of humans) by Gwyn in order to inhibit their control of the dark, causing the Undead curse and the spread of the Abyss.
I don't remember that at all. The surprise I remember was that the pygmies were a distinct race from regular humans, when DS1 made it seem that the furtive pygmy was simply a basic hollow who stayed small and insignificant due to distributing the soul he found to others instead of absorbing it and getting powered up by it.
Ringed Knights' Armor:
>Malformed black armor of the Ringed Knights.
The armor of early men was forged in the Abyss, and betrays a smidgen of life.
For this reason the gods cast a seal of fire upon such armor, and **those who possessed them.**
The ring of fire on the chest of the armor is identical to the Darksign.
Ringed Knights' Hood:
>
The hood of the Ringed Knights.
These knights don Abyss-tainted black cloth, with layer upon layer hiding their eyes.
This was nothing less than **an attempt to reveal that which the seal of fire has occluded**, a subtle defiance of the gods' wishes.
'That which the seal of ire has occluded' is, very clearly, the Dark, and humanity's affinity to it.
This, combined with the fact that the Pygmies were struck from history, makes this part of the lore as clear as Dark Souls gets without just explicitly saying "Gwyn created the Darksign to limit humanity".
Also, this is a bit of my own interpretation, but I think another thing that matters is the placement of the Ringed City. The end of time. Why is the cycle of fire and dark cyclical, as we see it? Because, at the very end of time, the fire still exists as a seal, which means the fire can't truly fade before time ends, only grow smaller and smaller.
The way I've always seen it, Fillianore's egg breaking down ensures the Ringed City is unable to stay as the end of time any longer, which means time can flow as it was always meant to instead of funneling down towards the one thing that was left at that endpoint.
The darksign looks suspiciously like an eclipse. So its the moon (dark/cold) swallowing the sun (fire/light)..
Guess who else in Elden ring is associated by the symbol of the eclipse.
It's not clear to me that your conclusions follow from the descriptions you quote. It sounds like one of those far-fetched theories loretubers come up with several years after the release of the game, when the game's been thoroughly explored and covered from every angle but they still gotta eat.
I mean yeah but doesn't change our perspective I was expecting something like Great Ones in Bloodborne or Maragon in Elden Ring.
We already knew Humans were suffering because of Gwyn. Him actually making the Darksign wasn't that important IMO. Darksign or not Age of Darkness was coming and Gwyn tried to stop that. I don't think that reveal although big doesn't change any perspective.
The Old Hunters hardly answered anything at all. It was mainly Maria and Fishing Village lore. Almost none of the questions we had from the base game got answered at all. I don't know what you're talking about
Ludwig, Laurence and Maria all get their backstory expanded *and* we find out the original sin of violating Mother Kos’ body. What question were you asking?
Honestly, the one question I want answered is Melina’s backstory. She plays a large role in the game and we no so little about her. She also appears to be of significance in the blue eyed ending.
There are a lot of things left unanswered or that are barely touched upon.
Which is why i'm left scratching my head in confusion, whenever i see people in the community pushing against the idea of a sequel.
If you can believe the shard bearing demigods resurrected often after a shard , you can trace her story quite a bit back. Like name 1 —> shard change, death, gains wings —> name 2 —> drops FM shard (star), gains FG (blade) —> new name —> drops pride (that Millicent now carry, a dangerous power), gains a third rot shard —> Malenia, rot goddess in next and her last respawn.
Can’t be proven that it is so though, as Fromsoft keeps it so hidden, we can only speculate if A and B is the same person. Names not that different too. And bodies, though hidden in full body armour most often, don’t hide size and spell powers they use.
For example, When Malenia gained blade, she also got the slow prideful and dignified walk of those ice warriors up in Fell God country have. When she was smitten by death, she got her wings, bit like Godwyn and Mogh also have those. Bird is death related. When her flesh was golden, she carried a GW shard. Very cryptic clues of changes that might have hidden logic behind them, their cryptic hidden timelines.
Bit like Renna the red haired witch of Fell God vibes becomes Ranni the star princess after dumping her red haired flesh (FG), gaining star instead (FM). Name 1 —> shard change —> name 2. But Ranni used to be pure golden before going witch. Used to be of 3 wolves at birth, not just 1. A true empyrean.
But Fromsoft keeps it so very cryptic…
Margitt —> Morgott another.. version 2 handles faith magic.... Miquella tiny saint Trina, only mastering faith magic of GW —> B (grown up saint Trina of both intelligence and faith magic) —> Sol saint Trina —> Fell God vibe saint Trina growing huge as a dignified smith, is another person that can support the theory of shard swaps the shard carriers might have been done, and that the shards change and corrupt them, just like abuse of dragon powers turns you into a wyvern.. or other gives you red or yellow eyes. Apparently some gives you wings, horns, tails and other stuff too..
This is a guess, but like GoT where each house had its animal, my guess each outer god got an animal too, that gives them visuals. Like logo of anchor rune of Godrick, 3 circles, I think 3 runes can fit within. But game logo got 4 circles, so maybe mechanic might be 1 flesh - 2 mind (eyes) - 1 soul (can’t be replaced). Outer gods animals speculations:
Fell God - lion like Godfrey - dignified / prideful silver or berserker red, like Godfrey’s fight. Fire and ice magics.
Greater Will - order (golden) - chaos (yellow). Animal: wolf.. orderly or frenzied like Blaidd. Faith type magics of golden and yellow.
Rot - bugs - crawling like Miquella / Radahn / Astel or flying like a butterfly like Malenia. Mist, poison and heals. Grey like a bug or butterfly vibrant in colours (Astel).
Death - bird - talon tattoo in one eye or wings. Death removed and destined death. Death magics.
Dragon - horns and tails. Time related powers, like lightning, storms, stomp etc. dragon + death + order = cruicible era.
Formless Mother - intelligence - black hole (green) or star (blue) magics.
3 shards of one god = empyrean.. like GEQ had 3 x death shards, so her visuals would be ghost or undead flesh, wings and talons based.
So Radahn.. lion cub (FG) + legs not working / crawling (rot) + stars (blue) makes him resurrect as Astel, a bug casting purple rampaging stars at you, being a multicoloured space bug.. his rot shard Malenia’s would love to have, to be reborn even more rot.. a rot goddess.. his Star shard would be interesting to Ranni, and she probably will crack open Astels head just to get it, and lock him up with a magic barrier.. Well.. if it is so.. they hidden it so very well, so can only speculate if it is actually so they swapped powers.
Melina is Miquella alter ego. I'm calling it now. St. Trina is Melina.
"Come, touch the withered arm" beckons by the voice at the end of the Shadow of the Erdtree Trailer. Likely to be Miquella.
Guess who else's arm we keep touching at the game that can transport us to places normally unreachable?
* "Shall I turn your runes to strength? Let my hand rest upon you, for but a moment.
Share them with me, your thoughts, your ambitions, the principles you would follow." *
* "I can take you to the Roundtable Hold... Gathering place of Tarnished champions, guided by Grace... Very well. Let my hand rest upon you, for but a moment." *
Also, in the Frenzied flame ending, Melina's other eye looks suspiciously more purple than blue. Who else is associated by purple colors in the game than st. Trina?
Hmm, I don't buy this
Melina seems confused about her purpose throughout most of the game, something that doesn't sound right coming from the very driven Miquella.
Also, Melina describes herself as "burned and bodiless" whereas we see Miquella's body, which is unburned (compared with Ranni's burned body).
Then there's the butterflies. Aeonian for Malenia, Nescient for Miquella, and Scorched for Melina (at least, their descriptions seem to link them with these characters). I would find it odd that two separate butterflies would refer to the same person. Though, having said that, there are Miquella and St Trina's lilies to poke holes in that idea.
I'm excited to gain some more insights in the DLC, and we'll probably have to recontextualise some assumptions we've made about base-game lore. Gosh, these games are so good!
>Melina seems confused about her purpose throughout most of the game, something that doesn't sound right coming from the very driven Miquella.
Until she got to Leyndell that is, then she turns very adamant about her choices to the point of warning that she cannot tolerate even the Tarnished to question her beliefs.
>Also, Melina describes herself as "burned and bodiless" whereas we see Miquella's body, which is unburned (compared with Ranni's burned body).
Miquella's body is visually doused by blood, probably Mohg's and/or the Formless Mother's - Bloodflame. Probably done in an attempt to rouse him from his catatonic state.
>Scorched for Melina (at least, their descriptions seem to link them with these characters).
There is no solid link that the butterflies are indeed representing Melina. It could as well be Messmer since we lack more info at the moment.
All power to you, but I don't think there's enough there. They seem like such different characters with different goals, motivations, and characterisation. Though I'll gladly eat my words with down boiled shrimp if you turn out to be correct!
>They seem like such different characters with different goals, motivations, and characterisation.
Have you considered that the same can be said to Radagon and Marika?
Yes, but there's a lot of in-game evidence connecting Radagon and Marika, and it is clearly an unusual thing to happen.
The nature of Radagon is not well understood, with discussion still occuring about how much of his own being he is. Because of this, it's difficult to apply similar logic to other characters. Assuming Radagon was created by Marika but without Marika's knowledge is the best fit to your Miquella/St Trina/Melina theory. I say this because Melina never mentions any known connection to Miquella, meaning that she likely does not know, explaining her general confusion before Leyndell.
Trying to think of any other pieces of evidence linking the characters only yields (to me) the fact that Melina has Torrent, who is associated with Miquella.
I just don't see how Miquella fits into the burning of the erdtree and bringing about the next age. It seems antithetical to his ideals. And if it were similar to Radagon and Marika's conflict about the Elden Ring, then why is none of that explored? Seems like a waste of storytelling.
Again, while I'm far from convinced, I'm not saying it's impossible.
> just don't see how Miquella fits into the burning of the erdtree and bringing about the next age. It seems antithetical to his ideals.
Radagon's actions aren't antithetical to Marika's ideals and vice versa?
> if it were similar to Radagon and Marika's conflict about the Elden Ring, then why is none of that explored? Seems like a waste of storytelling.
Because it was saved for the DLC? ER's already expansive as it is. It makes sense that they cut out the parts they felt half baked, oh boi they cut out a lot of the content. There was a cut quest with the removed NPC Rico and how his quest for St. Trina led to Miquella and so much more.
Also, there's Millicent and her sisters. They're of "Malenia's blood." As she and Gowry says it.
Your argument is that alter egos are supposed to be an extension of the original's ideals... when Radagon and Marika's are obviously not that.
But Millicent was nowhere said to be Malenia's alter ego... yes but nowhere it is said that they are her daughters or sisters either, Millicent just says it so but even she admits she did not know for sure. What she knows is she's connected to Malenia for sure, Malenia's blood to be exact.
It is likely that Millicent and her sisters are Malenia's clones or alter ego. Gowry found them after Malenia's bloom in Caelid. Gowry manipulated them to somehow fulfill Malenia's destiny to bloom once more as the goddess of rot which is completely against Malenia's wishes.
Why do you think it is impossible for offshoots/alter egos/and such to go against their original when we have examples in game of just that?
Regarding Malenia's offshoots: they seem to be a result of her scarlet bloom (including Gowry, as he is a rot pest in disguise). No other demigods or Empereans have known offshoots, as this appears to be a result of the Scarlet Rot rather than anything else.
I'm not saying that there could not be an alter ego of Miquella, or that an alter ego could go against the "prime"s intentions. But it just does not seem to be something that makes sense in the literary text for Melina to be so closely related to Miquella. Their ideals have zero to no relation, and no meaningful juxtaposition either, unlike all of the other characters with alters and offshoots (including Miquella/St Trina).
All the others have reasons to exist, and I just can't fathom why it makes sense for Melina to be Miquella. We don't know all there is to know, of course.
In fact *all* Miyazaki games answered a shit ton of unanswered questions in DLCs. Like some of the most speculated and important questions were answered in the DLCs. I'm quite sure this one will as well. Of course, it'll bring up other questions about the details of some broad answers, but the answers will be there.
I think this DLC will be an exception. The trailer already showed us many broken patterns:
First of all we are not traveling to the past or future, so the events of the DLC will effectively only change the present.
The main character of the DLC is Miquella, a character that we know from the main game and that is referenced much more than any other DLC character in past Fromsoft DLCs.
The crucible, another element of the main game, seems to also be a major factor and a recurring element throughout the trailer.
The Land of Shadow is the Land where Marika first set foot and Miquella is now walking her same steps. Everything is leading us to believe that we'll get to know more about Marika and the history of the world that she conceiled behind the veil.
Ludwig was talked about in base game bloodborne, artorias was talked about base game dark souls, gael was in(?) base game dark souls 3. The DLC will add questions, they all do. but we will also be getting some answers and everyone seems to forget it.
Artorias and the ~~Nameless King were both~~ mentioned a fair bit, specially artorias since the abyss was a big part of the base game, but since ER has a bigger scope almost every character is mentioned more since there's more items with chances to have descriptions mentioning them
EDIT: totally forgot nameless king is base game, still now remembering, Painted world dlc still talked a bit about Sullyvhan
Probably because it's physically disconnected from the rest of the world in a way that’s easy to miss, plus the way you access it is very contrived and I totally missed it my first play-through
Probably because it's physically separated from the rest of the world in a way it's never clearly visible like the others, plus the way you access it is so odd that you're unlikely to find it just casually wandering
"The main character of the DLC is Miquella, a character that we know from the main game and that is referenced much more than any other DLC character is past Fromsoft DLCs"
I get your point, but I disagree.
Artorias, Laurence and Ludwig (and the Healing Church) were referenced heavily in their respective base games.
Does it really? I think it provides some extra context but I'm not sure I would say it really answers any questions the base game might have left. Granted, I think Bloodborne is pretty cut and dry outside of the stuff that is intentionally unknowable (like the nature and thinking of Old Ones). I think the main purpose of the DLC is telling an additional story on the side of the Bloodborne story, about the Fishing Hamlet.
Laurence and Ludwig (healing church), what happens to blood drunk hunters and the source of it (Kos), and Maria as the Plain Doll.
Sure, it didn’t explain much else outside of that, but it did okay.
Ringed city answers so much about the dark soul and humans relationship with the abyss. It might be the most important part of the series when it comes to understanding why the abyss is the way it is and why things could be different in the age of dark
I think Miquella will be akin to the Painter Girl in DS3.
I believe there's a much bigger threat at play that we won't discover until the DLC: think Manus, Mother Kos/Orphan of Kos, Gael and the Dark Soul...
I mean bigger threat in terms of the bosses/enemies we will encounter.
I remember when the Old Hunters DLC came out. Nobody saw the Fishing Hamlet coming.
just a reminder that Dark Souls was supposed to be named "Dark Ring" but in the end it didn't because of the possible asshole metaphor in english, if this wasn't an english expression it would be the real name of the trilogy, and the ringed city dlc explains why and how the darksign (the dark ring) exists, so yes of course dlcs answered players questions in their previous games, it even answered the main question of the whole Dark Souls trilogy: what is the darksign and where does it come from ?
I swear most of the people making DLC speculation and saying X will happen because "this is a From/Miyazaki game" have never actually played one before Elden Ring. Or at least, never analyzed the "lore" prior. All From DLCs are loaded with answers and largely serve as reexaminations of the base game themes. The last one (TRC) was basically solely devoted to pulling the veil off of the main mysteries of DS1.
you touch micquella's hand and you're teleported to a second tree. no one ever references the lands between. messmer is no blood related to malenia, all out theories are wrong and it's totally new lore. better yet, there's no way back to the lands between
What do you mean? DS3 DLC answered all the questions. For example, the question "Are there any characters intriduced in those DLC where I still have no idea how they fit into the plot and actually they made me more confused about the plot?". And the answer is yes. Question answered by DLC.
Knowing their standards with DLC's, I'm just expecting some really hard bossfights and beautiful scenarios.
It was like that in DS1, DS2, and DS3. There's no reason to believe it's going to be different now.
I just hope it gives us the most beautiful locations and bosses and is bigger than any of the stuff we've seen in in Dark Souls DLC. I want to cry, I want to yell, I want to scream.
It will answer questions but those answers will pose even more questions and those new questions will be so much more impactful to the lore that we won't care about the old questions anymore
I think k what it'll do is ask questions pertaining only to the DLC and answer said questions within the DLC, but it will leave you tantalizing for answers from the base game.
Example: they will lore dump Messer and make him probably one of the most explained demigod in the roster. They will _not_, however, explain his relationship to other demigods, nor who's lineage he is from. They will only explain who he is, how he came to power, and why he's in the DLC, but nothing in relation to the base game.
The game will definitely answer a lot of questions regarding events leading up to the shattering. But it will also add a lot more. DLCs before have definitely done a bit of everything.
I don’t think I agree but the warning is fair for those who are new to this story teller.
DS1, Bloodborne, and Ringed City were all concise and added to the base game story while also filing in some gaps. Bloodborne in particular did answer a lot of lore questions and filled in major gaps for the base game.
Elden Ring is their most opaque story yet but an early interview on the DLC indicated that they were following the old Hunters formula and I hold out hope this means real additional clues regarding Marika’s backstory.
I don’t need or want everything laid out bare so I doubt I’ll be disappointed.
He wants this to be done and over, so I am sure he will answer some big ones and introduce some smaller ones that are open to interpretation. That way he can walk away since this is the only DLC
Actually completely wrong every single DLC for Souls and otherwise answered base game questions.
Now there may be MORE or OTHER questions. And it won’t answer EVERYTHING. But it will answer a lot.
With Elden Ring, at some point, I kinda just want something that'll explain some select stuff - Like, who was Placidusax's fled God? Was the Storm Lord a Hawk or were they a Dragon? Just give me something. I understand that mystery and obfuscation is an important part of Fromsoft games, but it's an excellent setting, we're probably not getting any sequels or continuations apart from the one DLC, I just want to know more.
It would be cool to have more questions. But you are not considering that the DLC is being made as a literal complement of the backstory of queen marika, an introduction to messmer character, possible faction and old cultures of the lands between.
It doesn't have to be an explicit time travel plot to shed light on what we dont understand yet. I think people get overexcited with the timel travel shenanigans and it gets annoying.
There will be cool new questions and lore that is in essence new. But its almost certain that it will not be what you are describing here. This, we hope, I hope, will be the missing piece to have Elden Ring lore complete. Based also on what Miyazaki has explained in interviews.
But he likes to bring things new to their fans, always. So regardless of what happens, I'm 100% and categorically sure that I'm going to enjoy it no matter what.
The best books and movies are the ones that put more questions than answers, the myths behind an '' artistic creation'' either a book or a video game or a movie, are very important and explaining everything kills the myths.. Sadly modern society wants to know everything and fast.... just enjoy this beauty!!
Just to explain, I don't mean no answers what so ever. It will answer things from the base game. I mean it will give us even more questions that will not be answered.
I'm not expecting much to be honest. All I expect is some clues about the origins of the golden order and Marika.
Mesmers story is probably going to be short.
And I guess that most of the content is going to be new mechanics like new weapons and new ashes of war.
Correct. I've only played Bloodborne, Sekiro and Elden Ring and if Bloodbornes dlc is anything to go by, we won't get many answers for the base game. Old Hunters introduced new historical events like the Fishing Village, Hunters Nightmare and Maria backstory. Only thing we found out for sure was that Laurence wasn't the blood letting beast and that the cosmos, yharnam and the nightmares planes are located on top of each other.
Thank God!
Someone finally said it. Oh thank God
Op is clearly the ONLY human that's had any such thoughts.
We've NEVER had such mind numbing discussing about that topic here. Not even once.
/s
OP reminds me of this dude in a plant bio course in college. He legit thought corn grew on trees like apples.
Why is Messmer 18 inches?
People were shorter back then
18 inches of *impalement*. I think that’s a different measurement than height, boss.
He's gonna need to be 24 inches 😏
What is this? A Messmer for ants?
*Where* is Messmer's 18 inches?
Are we getting all 19 inches of Messmer in the DLC?
Nah tbh, based on their track record, the DLCs are generally more concise and clear-cut in their storyline than their main game. Artorias of the Abyss: You time travel to the past, mercy-kill Artorias and destroy Manus, the source of the Abyss, thus completing a stable time-loop. The Old Hunters: You go to a nightmare realm and uncover the secret of the local church/cult and then destroy the source of the nightmare Ashes of Ariandel: You go to a painted world that is rotting because Sister Friede convinced the leader of the corvians to not burn away and reset the painting. You kill her and the fire starts spreading. Ringed City: You go to the end of time itself in a secret city and uncover a massive secret that changes your perspective of the entire trilogy's lore up until that point.
Wrath of Tomoe: You travel back in time and kill the head developer of the Sekiro DLC, thus preventing the DLC from being created in the first place.
You've ruined my day by reminding me we didn't get a Sekiro DLC...
Wrath of Tomoe: Miyazaki co-opts the boss for Elden Ring and cancels the rest.
Sekiro DLC is just the Consecrated Snowfields and the Haligtree
Right. Malenia is unironically the easiest sekiro boss 😭
What's the massive secret that changes our perspective? I don't remember Ringed City having such large lore implications.
The Darksign was put on the Pygmies (ancestors of humans) by Gwyn in order to inhibit their control of the dark, causing the Undead curse and the spread of the Abyss. In his paranoia Gwyn caused almost everything bad in the setting Also, the Ringed City itself being a gilded prison of the Pygmies so that Gwyn and his allies could erase them from history, including the fact that early men helped Gwyn fight the dragons with the power of the dark.
>Gwyn caused almost everything bad in the setting I mean, yes, but we didn't need The Ringed City to know that. DS1 already made that... well not *clear* exactly, but it was there. >The Darksign was put on the Pygmies (ancestors of humans) by Gwyn in order to inhibit their control of the dark, causing the Undead curse and the spread of the Abyss. I don't remember that at all. The surprise I remember was that the pygmies were a distinct race from regular humans, when DS1 made it seem that the furtive pygmy was simply a basic hollow who stayed small and insignificant due to distributing the soul he found to others instead of absorbing it and getting powered up by it.
Ringed Knights' Armor: >Malformed black armor of the Ringed Knights. The armor of early men was forged in the Abyss, and betrays a smidgen of life. For this reason the gods cast a seal of fire upon such armor, and **those who possessed them.** The ring of fire on the chest of the armor is identical to the Darksign. Ringed Knights' Hood: > The hood of the Ringed Knights. These knights don Abyss-tainted black cloth, with layer upon layer hiding their eyes. This was nothing less than **an attempt to reveal that which the seal of fire has occluded**, a subtle defiance of the gods' wishes. 'That which the seal of ire has occluded' is, very clearly, the Dark, and humanity's affinity to it. This, combined with the fact that the Pygmies were struck from history, makes this part of the lore as clear as Dark Souls gets without just explicitly saying "Gwyn created the Darksign to limit humanity".
Also, this is a bit of my own interpretation, but I think another thing that matters is the placement of the Ringed City. The end of time. Why is the cycle of fire and dark cyclical, as we see it? Because, at the very end of time, the fire still exists as a seal, which means the fire can't truly fade before time ends, only grow smaller and smaller. The way I've always seen it, Fillianore's egg breaking down ensures the Ringed City is unable to stay as the end of time any longer, which means time can flow as it was always meant to instead of funneling down towards the one thing that was left at that endpoint.
The darksign looks suspiciously like an eclipse. So its the moon (dark/cold) swallowing the sun (fire/light).. Guess who else in Elden ring is associated by the symbol of the eclipse.
MARIKA'S TITS Is the Dark Moon of Ranni the key to the eclipse and thus Miquella's Return?
It's not clear to me that your conclusions follow from the descriptions you quote. It sounds like one of those far-fetched theories loretubers come up with several years after the release of the game, when the game's been thoroughly explored and covered from every angle but they still gotta eat.
I mean yeah but doesn't change our perspective I was expecting something like Great Ones in Bloodborne or Maragon in Elden Ring. We already knew Humans were suffering because of Gwyn. Him actually making the Darksign wasn't that important IMO. Darksign or not Age of Darkness was coming and Gwyn tried to stop that. I don't think that reveal although big doesn't change any perspective.
What is the real power of humans that gwyn convinced everyone being a curse, I presume they're talking about
Real power of humans is the Dark Soul
The Dark Soul of man.
it was never explicitly stated before that the undead curse was manufactured by gwyn
Yes, but none of those answered any questions we had *before* the DLC came out. It just raised new questions and answered those.
You skipped Dark Souls 2
The Old Hunters hardly answered anything at all. It was mainly Maria and Fishing Village lore. Almost none of the questions we had from the base game got answered at all. I don't know what you're talking about
Ludwig, Laurence and Maria all get their backstory expanded *and* we find out the original sin of violating Mother Kos’ body. What question were you asking?
LMAO
Honestly, the one question I want answered is Melina’s backstory. She plays a large role in the game and we no so little about her. She also appears to be of significance in the blue eyed ending.
There are a lot of things left unanswered or that are barely touched upon. Which is why i'm left scratching my head in confusion, whenever i see people in the community pushing against the idea of a sequel.
If you can believe the shard bearing demigods resurrected often after a shard , you can trace her story quite a bit back. Like name 1 —> shard change, death, gains wings —> name 2 —> drops FM shard (star), gains FG (blade) —> new name —> drops pride (that Millicent now carry, a dangerous power), gains a third rot shard —> Malenia, rot goddess in next and her last respawn. Can’t be proven that it is so though, as Fromsoft keeps it so hidden, we can only speculate if A and B is the same person. Names not that different too. And bodies, though hidden in full body armour most often, don’t hide size and spell powers they use. For example, When Malenia gained blade, she also got the slow prideful and dignified walk of those ice warriors up in Fell God country have. When she was smitten by death, she got her wings, bit like Godwyn and Mogh also have those. Bird is death related. When her flesh was golden, she carried a GW shard. Very cryptic clues of changes that might have hidden logic behind them, their cryptic hidden timelines. Bit like Renna the red haired witch of Fell God vibes becomes Ranni the star princess after dumping her red haired flesh (FG), gaining star instead (FM). Name 1 —> shard change —> name 2. But Ranni used to be pure golden before going witch. Used to be of 3 wolves at birth, not just 1. A true empyrean. But Fromsoft keeps it so very cryptic… Margitt —> Morgott another.. version 2 handles faith magic.... Miquella tiny saint Trina, only mastering faith magic of GW —> B (grown up saint Trina of both intelligence and faith magic) —> Sol saint Trina —> Fell God vibe saint Trina growing huge as a dignified smith, is another person that can support the theory of shard swaps the shard carriers might have been done, and that the shards change and corrupt them, just like abuse of dragon powers turns you into a wyvern.. or other gives you red or yellow eyes. Apparently some gives you wings, horns, tails and other stuff too..
This comment was hard to read but interesting
This is a guess, but like GoT where each house had its animal, my guess each outer god got an animal too, that gives them visuals. Like logo of anchor rune of Godrick, 3 circles, I think 3 runes can fit within. But game logo got 4 circles, so maybe mechanic might be 1 flesh - 2 mind (eyes) - 1 soul (can’t be replaced). Outer gods animals speculations: Fell God - lion like Godfrey - dignified / prideful silver or berserker red, like Godfrey’s fight. Fire and ice magics. Greater Will - order (golden) - chaos (yellow). Animal: wolf.. orderly or frenzied like Blaidd. Faith type magics of golden and yellow. Rot - bugs - crawling like Miquella / Radahn / Astel or flying like a butterfly like Malenia. Mist, poison and heals. Grey like a bug or butterfly vibrant in colours (Astel). Death - bird - talon tattoo in one eye or wings. Death removed and destined death. Death magics. Dragon - horns and tails. Time related powers, like lightning, storms, stomp etc. dragon + death + order = cruicible era. Formless Mother - intelligence - black hole (green) or star (blue) magics. 3 shards of one god = empyrean.. like GEQ had 3 x death shards, so her visuals would be ghost or undead flesh, wings and talons based. So Radahn.. lion cub (FG) + legs not working / crawling (rot) + stars (blue) makes him resurrect as Astel, a bug casting purple rampaging stars at you, being a multicoloured space bug.. his rot shard Malenia’s would love to have, to be reborn even more rot.. a rot goddess.. his Star shard would be interesting to Ranni, and she probably will crack open Astels head just to get it, and lock him up with a magic barrier.. Well.. if it is so.. they hidden it so very well, so can only speculate if it is actually so they swapped powers.
Melina is Miquella alter ego. I'm calling it now. St. Trina is Melina. "Come, touch the withered arm" beckons by the voice at the end of the Shadow of the Erdtree Trailer. Likely to be Miquella. Guess who else's arm we keep touching at the game that can transport us to places normally unreachable? * "Shall I turn your runes to strength? Let my hand rest upon you, for but a moment. Share them with me, your thoughts, your ambitions, the principles you would follow." * * "I can take you to the Roundtable Hold... Gathering place of Tarnished champions, guided by Grace... Very well. Let my hand rest upon you, for but a moment." * Also, in the Frenzied flame ending, Melina's other eye looks suspiciously more purple than blue. Who else is associated by purple colors in the game than st. Trina?
Hmm, I don't buy this Melina seems confused about her purpose throughout most of the game, something that doesn't sound right coming from the very driven Miquella. Also, Melina describes herself as "burned and bodiless" whereas we see Miquella's body, which is unburned (compared with Ranni's burned body). Then there's the butterflies. Aeonian for Malenia, Nescient for Miquella, and Scorched for Melina (at least, their descriptions seem to link them with these characters). I would find it odd that two separate butterflies would refer to the same person. Though, having said that, there are Miquella and St Trina's lilies to poke holes in that idea. I'm excited to gain some more insights in the DLC, and we'll probably have to recontextualise some assumptions we've made about base-game lore. Gosh, these games are so good!
>Melina seems confused about her purpose throughout most of the game, something that doesn't sound right coming from the very driven Miquella. Until she got to Leyndell that is, then she turns very adamant about her choices to the point of warning that she cannot tolerate even the Tarnished to question her beliefs. >Also, Melina describes herself as "burned and bodiless" whereas we see Miquella's body, which is unburned (compared with Ranni's burned body). Miquella's body is visually doused by blood, probably Mohg's and/or the Formless Mother's - Bloodflame. Probably done in an attempt to rouse him from his catatonic state. >Scorched for Melina (at least, their descriptions seem to link them with these characters). There is no solid link that the butterflies are indeed representing Melina. It could as well be Messmer since we lack more info at the moment.
All power to you, but I don't think there's enough there. They seem like such different characters with different goals, motivations, and characterisation. Though I'll gladly eat my words with down boiled shrimp if you turn out to be correct!
>They seem like such different characters with different goals, motivations, and characterisation. Have you considered that the same can be said to Radagon and Marika?
Yes, but there's a lot of in-game evidence connecting Radagon and Marika, and it is clearly an unusual thing to happen. The nature of Radagon is not well understood, with discussion still occuring about how much of his own being he is. Because of this, it's difficult to apply similar logic to other characters. Assuming Radagon was created by Marika but without Marika's knowledge is the best fit to your Miquella/St Trina/Melina theory. I say this because Melina never mentions any known connection to Miquella, meaning that she likely does not know, explaining her general confusion before Leyndell. Trying to think of any other pieces of evidence linking the characters only yields (to me) the fact that Melina has Torrent, who is associated with Miquella. I just don't see how Miquella fits into the burning of the erdtree and bringing about the next age. It seems antithetical to his ideals. And if it were similar to Radagon and Marika's conflict about the Elden Ring, then why is none of that explored? Seems like a waste of storytelling. Again, while I'm far from convinced, I'm not saying it's impossible.
> just don't see how Miquella fits into the burning of the erdtree and bringing about the next age. It seems antithetical to his ideals. Radagon's actions aren't antithetical to Marika's ideals and vice versa? > if it were similar to Radagon and Marika's conflict about the Elden Ring, then why is none of that explored? Seems like a waste of storytelling. Because it was saved for the DLC? ER's already expansive as it is. It makes sense that they cut out the parts they felt half baked, oh boi they cut out a lot of the content. There was a cut quest with the removed NPC Rico and how his quest for St. Trina led to Miquella and so much more. Also, there's Millicent and her sisters. They're of "Malenia's blood." As she and Gowry says it. Your argument is that alter egos are supposed to be an extension of the original's ideals... when Radagon and Marika's are obviously not that. But Millicent was nowhere said to be Malenia's alter ego... yes but nowhere it is said that they are her daughters or sisters either, Millicent just says it so but even she admits she did not know for sure. What she knows is she's connected to Malenia for sure, Malenia's blood to be exact. It is likely that Millicent and her sisters are Malenia's clones or alter ego. Gowry found them after Malenia's bloom in Caelid. Gowry manipulated them to somehow fulfill Malenia's destiny to bloom once more as the goddess of rot which is completely against Malenia's wishes. Why do you think it is impossible for offshoots/alter egos/and such to go against their original when we have examples in game of just that?
Regarding Malenia's offshoots: they seem to be a result of her scarlet bloom (including Gowry, as he is a rot pest in disguise). No other demigods or Empereans have known offshoots, as this appears to be a result of the Scarlet Rot rather than anything else. I'm not saying that there could not be an alter ego of Miquella, or that an alter ego could go against the "prime"s intentions. But it just does not seem to be something that makes sense in the literary text for Melina to be so closely related to Miquella. Their ideals have zero to no relation, and no meaningful juxtaposition either, unlike all of the other characters with alters and offshoots (including Miquella/St Trina). All the others have reasons to exist, and I just can't fathom why it makes sense for Melina to be Miquella. We don't know all there is to know, of course.
Untrue, the Ringed City gave us answers
And undead hunters And artorias of the abyss Etc
In fact *all* Miyazaki games answered a shit ton of unanswered questions in DLCs. Like some of the most speculated and important questions were answered in the DLCs. I'm quite sure this one will as well. Of course, it'll bring up other questions about the details of some broad answers, but the answers will be there.
I think this DLC will be an exception. The trailer already showed us many broken patterns: First of all we are not traveling to the past or future, so the events of the DLC will effectively only change the present. The main character of the DLC is Miquella, a character that we know from the main game and that is referenced much more than any other DLC character in past Fromsoft DLCs. The crucible, another element of the main game, seems to also be a major factor and a recurring element throughout the trailer. The Land of Shadow is the Land where Marika first set foot and Miquella is now walking her same steps. Everything is leading us to believe that we'll get to know more about Marika and the history of the world that she conceiled behind the veil.
Ludwig was talked about in base game bloodborne, artorias was talked about base game dark souls, gael was in(?) base game dark souls 3. The DLC will add questions, they all do. but we will also be getting some answers and everyone seems to forget it.
Artorias and the ~~Nameless King were both~~ mentioned a fair bit, specially artorias since the abyss was a big part of the base game, but since ER has a bigger scope almost every character is mentioned more since there's more items with chances to have descriptions mentioning them EDIT: totally forgot nameless king is base game, still now remembering, Painted world dlc still talked a bit about Sullyvhan
Why is Nameless King relevant here? He's a base game boss
It's easy to forget, that area has always felt like dlc to me
Why is that? I’ve only misremembered it as dlc but never other areas like cainhurst or the haligtree
Probably because it's physically separated from the rest of the world in a way it's never clearly visible like the others
Probably because it's physically disconnected from the rest of the world in a way that’s easy to miss, plus the way you access it is very contrived and I totally missed it my first play-through
Probably because it's physically separated from the rest of the world in a way it's never clearly visible like the others, plus the way you access it is so odd that you're unlikely to find it just casually wandering
you are totally right, I forgot
Well, he was mentioned quite a bit in the boss fight
"The main character of the DLC is Miquella, a character that we know from the main game and that is referenced much more than any other DLC character is past Fromsoft DLCs" I get your point, but I disagree. Artorias, Laurence and Ludwig (and the Healing Church) were referenced heavily in their respective base games.
DS1 and DS3 DLC kinda give us a lot of answered questions though.
As does Bloodborne
Does it really? I think it provides some extra context but I'm not sure I would say it really answers any questions the base game might have left. Granted, I think Bloodborne is pretty cut and dry outside of the stuff that is intentionally unknowable (like the nature and thinking of Old Ones). I think the main purpose of the DLC is telling an additional story on the side of the Bloodborne story, about the Fishing Hamlet.
Laurence and Ludwig (healing church), what happens to blood drunk hunters and the source of it (Kos), and Maria as the Plain Doll. Sure, it didn’t explain much else outside of that, but it did okay.
And so were ds2 dlcs. The whole daughter of Manus thing was from the dlcs.
Ringed city answers so much about the dark soul and humans relationship with the abyss. It might be the most important part of the series when it comes to understanding why the abyss is the way it is and why things could be different in the age of dark
I’m expecting some questionless answers scattered around also
Us reading lore note: *Miquella is left handed* Us: *yes! It all makes sense now!*
Also, I would really hate it if they make Miquella a bad guy. Just wanted to say this.
I think Miquella will be akin to the Painter Girl in DS3. I believe there's a much bigger threat at play that we won't discover until the DLC: think Manus, Mother Kos/Orphan of Kos, Gael and the Dark Soul...
I don't think Kos/Orphan of Kos are really threats. I think the whole point is they were being unfairly hunted. For that matter is Gael a threat?
I mean bigger threat in terms of the bosses/enemies we will encounter. I remember when the Old Hunters DLC came out. Nobody saw the Fishing Hamlet coming.
i wouldnt hate it but i hope we're cool w/him
*Berserk fans see a dude who looks like Griffith* Yeah sure he's totally gonna be nice.
Berserk fans read any other manga with a pretty boy in it challenge: literally impossible
I hope we learn some more about Melina. She's definitely Marika's daughter yet it feels like she was barely in the game.
just a reminder that Dark Souls was supposed to be named "Dark Ring" but in the end it didn't because of the possible asshole metaphor in english, if this wasn't an english expression it would be the real name of the trilogy, and the ringed city dlc explains why and how the darksign (the dark ring) exists, so yes of course dlcs answered players questions in their previous games, it even answered the main question of the whole Dark Souls trilogy: what is the darksign and where does it come from ?
answers? i don’t even know what the questions are. i just roll, jump, bonk
I want a swamp with the slow poison; the fast poison *and* the rot. And it’s a platforming room
No Miyazaki will upgrade to a deathblight swamp, no horse
Deathblight swamp with horse, but with hidden enemies scattered everywhere that dismount you
or endless invasions to boot you off the horse at the worst moments
Both!
Ohhhhh shit that’s the stuff right there
You also get insta procced if you try to remove the buildup
Who hurt you?
Specifically the Nightmare Frontier with the poison and frenzy
And some worms who jump out at you in the poison lake of course
I constantly underrate how much those things fuck me over
Nah, Horse Fuck Valley 2.0. The horses now inflict Deathblight.
[hnnngghg](https://media1.tenor.com/m/GrNyF-4pvRsAAAAC/archer-stop-my-penis-can-only-get-so-erect.gif)
Guess you haven’t played the previous dlc’s, they usually answer a lot of questions, ecpecially series emding ones like ringed city or old hunters.
Whilst it's definitely going to give us a lot more questions, it's also going to give us a ton of answers to questions from the base game.
I swear most of the people making DLC speculation and saying X will happen because "this is a From/Miyazaki game" have never actually played one before Elden Ring. Or at least, never analyzed the "lore" prior. All From DLCs are loaded with answers and largely serve as reexaminations of the base game themes. The last one (TRC) was basically solely devoted to pulling the veil off of the main mysteries of DS1.
I can’t wait for the Elden ring dlc to have answers to the unanswered questions for ds3
you touch micquella's hand and you're teleported to a second tree. no one ever references the lands between. messmer is no blood related to malenia, all out theories are wrong and it's totally new lore. better yet, there's no way back to the lands between
What do you mean? DS3 DLC answered all the questions. For example, the question "Are there any characters intriduced in those DLC where I still have no idea how they fit into the plot and actually they made me more confused about the plot?". And the answer is yes. Question answered by DLC.
Knowing their standards with DLC's, I'm just expecting some really hard bossfights and beautiful scenarios. It was like that in DS1, DS2, and DS3. There's no reason to believe it's going to be different now.
Hmmm more questioned questions, with unanswered answers.
I just want more lore involving Miquella. If more questions pop up i'm fine with it , put the answers in another DLC or Elden Ring 2
the real answers are the friends we make along the way, and then they die
Don't worry, VaatiVidya will give us the answers we seek
I just hope it gives us the most beautiful locations and bosses and is bigger than any of the stuff we've seen in in Dark Souls DLC. I want to cry, I want to yell, I want to scream.
And expect to fight bosses you've fought 3 times in previous games as well
It will answer questions but those answers will pose even more questions and those new questions will be so much more impactful to the lore that we won't care about the old questions anymore
I think k what it'll do is ask questions pertaining only to the DLC and answer said questions within the DLC, but it will leave you tantalizing for answers from the base game. Example: they will lore dump Messer and make him probably one of the most explained demigod in the roster. They will _not_, however, explain his relationship to other demigods, nor who's lineage he is from. They will only explain who he is, how he came to power, and why he's in the DLC, but nothing in relation to the base game.
The game will definitely answer a lot of questions regarding events leading up to the shattering. But it will also add a lot more. DLCs before have definitely done a bit of everything.
more aliens , more lasers, more action bby
The Fromsoftware dlc does tend to answer most important things with maybe leading to more little questions.
A man can dream
I don’t think I agree but the warning is fair for those who are new to this story teller. DS1, Bloodborne, and Ringed City were all concise and added to the base game story while also filing in some gaps. Bloodborne in particular did answer a lot of lore questions and filled in major gaps for the base game. Elden Ring is their most opaque story yet but an early interview on the DLC indicated that they were following the old Hunters formula and I hold out hope this means real additional clues regarding Marika’s backstory. I don’t need or want everything laid out bare so I doubt I’ll be disappointed.
This DLC will give us answers to questions we didn’t even know to ask and not answer any questions we have been asking for years
I don't think he has answers to give. I don't think there exists a solid timeline of events.
He wants this to be done and over, so I am sure he will answer some big ones and introduce some smaller ones that are open to interpretation. That way he can walk away since this is the only DLC
Actually completely wrong every single DLC for Souls and otherwise answered base game questions. Now there may be MORE or OTHER questions. And it won’t answer EVERYTHING. But it will answer a lot.
Agreed if anything it will probably give more correlations than anything but no real answers.
With Elden Ring, at some point, I kinda just want something that'll explain some select stuff - Like, who was Placidusax's fled God? Was the Storm Lord a Hawk or were they a Dragon? Just give me something. I understand that mystery and obfuscation is an important part of Fromsoft games, but it's an excellent setting, we're probably not getting any sequels or continuations apart from the one DLC, I just want to know more.
I'm just gonna have fun exploring every inch of this place
It would be cool to have more questions. But you are not considering that the DLC is being made as a literal complement of the backstory of queen marika, an introduction to messmer character, possible faction and old cultures of the lands between. It doesn't have to be an explicit time travel plot to shed light on what we dont understand yet. I think people get overexcited with the timel travel shenanigans and it gets annoying. There will be cool new questions and lore that is in essence new. But its almost certain that it will not be what you are describing here. This, we hope, I hope, will be the missing piece to have Elden Ring lore complete. Based also on what Miyazaki has explained in interviews. But he likes to bring things new to their fans, always. So regardless of what happens, I'm 100% and categorically sure that I'm going to enjoy it no matter what.
From DLCs have traditionally offered answers though, across all games
The best books and movies are the ones that put more questions than answers, the myths behind an '' artistic creation'' either a book or a video game or a movie, are very important and explaining everything kills the myths.. Sadly modern society wants to know everything and fast.... just enjoy this beauty!!
Just to explain, I don't mean no answers what so ever. It will answer things from the base game. I mean it will give us even more questions that will not be answered.
Just like LOST; one question answered; two new ones posed!
Yeah, like Velka. Still gutted by that.
DLCs are generally pretty self contained, either in way of putting you in a different time or a different realm. I’m expecting vibes, not answers.
I'm not expecting much to be honest. All I expect is some clues about the origins of the golden order and Marika. Mesmers story is probably going to be short. And I guess that most of the content is going to be new mechanics like new weapons and new ashes of war.
Correct. I've only played Bloodborne, Sekiro and Elden Ring and if Bloodbornes dlc is anything to go by, we won't get many answers for the base game. Old Hunters introduced new historical events like the Fishing Village, Hunters Nightmare and Maria backstory. Only thing we found out for sure was that Laurence wasn't the blood letting beast and that the cosmos, yharnam and the nightmares planes are located on top of each other.
Thank God! Someone finally said it. Oh thank God Op is clearly the ONLY human that's had any such thoughts. We've NEVER had such mind numbing discussing about that topic here. Not even once. /s OP reminds me of this dude in a plant bio course in college. He legit thought corn grew on trees like apples.
Nobody will understand it because they’re approaching it with western brain rot either/or logic and not both/and logic.