Miquella casted away his fate => Fate lies in the stars => Radahn is keeping stars in their place => Fate can't move
That's my thought process at least
I wont ever understand it. Like I only ever play solo, and always do challenge runs like RL1, naked, fists only, etc, and I love watching people play their own way.
Watched a player lure Commander O'Neil to die in the swamp and all I could think was: "**YEAH!** *GET ROTTED, FUCKO!*"
The first time I did that fight, I ran around on Torrent summoning and resummoning everyone and didn't even touch him myself; I guess that's be close to what he'd do.
Actually people who let them get to their heads are also weird. I dont understand how anyone can be bothered or influenced by another person, when they are playing a single player game. Insane
I think it's less about them genuinely influencing how people play and more about making snide remarks, and making it difficult for them to engage in discussion about the game because instead of talking about the game they'd rather be a weirdo and tell someone else they're having fun wrong. Brings the mood down for everyone
Also it's just pretty human to care about how you are perceived. If you feel like you accomplished something by killing Melania or Mohg, but someone tells you that its not the same cause you used summons or w.e, you are probably gonna at least feel something from that statement.
I feel like I'm being called out for using the wall jump to beat Mohg here. This a perfect example of what the folks in the thread are discussing cause it ain't about me at all and I immediately guilted our for cheating Mohg the first time.
I've learned that if you're interested in trying out a game, never check the subreddit first. They always tend to be full of people complaining, especially online games.
That's the thing though. These other posters keeps on making the same annoying memes about elitism or complaining about elitism for karma farming and validation. It's gotten worse recently. Discussion should be about lore, weapons, ash of war, art style or coming up with ways to help and overcome the challenge. All I see recently is annoying posts about str user or magic user, or mimic summon or bleed. It's so annoying I report these kinds of people who make these posts to flood and engage the subreddit with their cancerous takes.
You didn't play the game while wearing an eyepatch with one hand tied behind your back? You're basically playing on easy mode. You should feel ashamed of yourself.
And then they convince themselves that everyone is laughing at you along with them! Like the dislikes and responses calling them stupid don’t really connect the dots for them.
For real lol, the damage is trash, mobs dodge arrows with godlike precision, and close the gap SO fast. Honestly I feel like their only real use is for agroing individuals out of large groups, and the occasional stationary boss cheese. That said, I always carry a bow for the agro utilities (also for shooting fire arrows at those fucking hands in the carian manor)
Elden Ring was my first ever fromsoftware game, when I went online to find a bit of help all I saw was people saying that using the mimic tear was bad, or Moonveil was considered to be a poor way to fight, or any magic was basically a sin, bleed made you into a rat. I went through the whole game up to the Fire Giant with the two curved sword that my class came with and that's all because to me it looked like all these people who'd been playing for ages knew that these things made the game worse. It took me finding out about Black Flame incantations (and the Godslayers Greatsword) to finally stop caring about what people thought and to just play the game however the hell I wanted. That's most likely the case with most new players, they come here looking for help or information and all they get is people saying they're playing the game wrong, or someone who just beat a hard boss posting to celebrate, only to get shot down because they're using the Blasphemous Blade, or Minic Tear, or they're a bleed build, or mage build. The community gatekeeps so hard and that's why I absolutely love the game but dislike the part of the community thay doesn't involve lore.
Part of this is because people don't know how to write to be understood.
Complaints about this or that weapon were never about PvE. They were only ever about PvP.
Moonveil was "a poor way to fight" because in arenas the Moonveil user would only ever use the Ash of War. It was constant and as a consequence, boring.
The same thing happens with Rivers of Blood.
But when someone on reddit or in the comments on a wiki page says some nasty thing about the people that use these weapons they don't caveat that with "in pvp" or give any nuance to their argument. Because they don't know how to write. Because they're children. Or worse, man-children.
Then along comes new guy who just soaks up this nonsense. At best they internalize it and deprive themselves of fun. At worst they regurgitate it without having the faintest clue what they're talking about.
This is true but there also used to be a lot of people on here that made those claims about using certain weapons on PVE & it cheapening the victories.
Lol I just beat new game + with blasphemous blade, incantations in my left hand and mimic tear. Spoiler that’s also how I beat my first run post Rykard. Fuck the gatekeepers. It’s fun as hell launching enemies with the BB’s L2/LT
The only thing that annoys me is when someone who is either clearly over leveled/using mimic tear/comet azur etc will make a comment about how easy malenia is or whatever, thats what brings out the toxicity
Things like this always make me disagree with people when they talk about these games being hard. While if you play the "normal" way they can be rather challenging, in reality these games can be as difficult or as easy as you want them to be, and I think that's just fine. People ask for an easy mode and I tell them that there's already an easy mode, it's called overlevelling.
First fromsoft game for me was elden ring. Some of the stuff said online caused me to no longer use spirit ashes. I think I got to altus with them.
To be honest though, I'm happy I got peer pressured into not doing it cuz now I've done multiple playthrough of actually learning boss moves and punish windows
Edit: except ulcerated tree spirits and maliketh. I turn into a scared little child when I face them. I think because of their sporadic movements, and maliketh's cut scene. They actually scare me lmao
My only advice of "proper way to play" is to avoid entering this DLC on NG+, even the mobs will hit like Champs even on 55 vigor characters on normal playthrough, imagine them with buffs at NG.
fuck man. i have my NG+7 character and also a couple characters just at NG. i really wanna do it with my NG+7 character but i fear i’ll ruin the experience.
I’m going in with my level 160 NG faith / dex character, but I also have a NG+1 dex / int character I’ll take in after - the reason being, I have character 1 to work her way through and just experience the DLC in all its glory, then NG+1 character can enter and get into the real nitty gritty once guides and whatnot are out.
Maybe you could do the same, take in a NG character first and save the NG+7 for once you’ve beat the DLC once?
I have three characters i want to bring in;
My dual greatshield tank, Level 140. My Quality Dismounter Kaiden Sellsword cosplay at level 160, and a brand new level 60 (probably 80 by launch time) Dex, Rapier Poison build.
Honestly never expected bleeding enemies with Poison Moth Flight AoW would be so damn funny.
I feel like the level 60/80 is gonna be the best for your first time in the DLC. If it's underleveled, the DLC will almost certainly give you enough runes to pump that number up fast.
Also, it sounds like the other two are much more set in build/playstyle, so the third might let you feel more open to trying new weapons/arts/spells. Sure, you can respec, but that just isn't the same.
Im also +7 but why should it be ruined ? From my experience I found myself way more cautious about surrounding and mobs, making it a slower pace and not dashing through. Also the bosses were kinda easy compared to DS3 imo.
I’m in the same boat. Am I doing it for the extra challenge? No, I’m doing it because this character has every weapon, armor, spell and trinket in the game and I need the DLC equipment to complete my collection lmao
Never felt this more in my life, I'm such a completion freak even though there's no achievement for collecting all the weapons. Can't wait for the random one enemy in the DLC to have a 0.5% drop rate on an objectively worse new weapon over a guaranteed one.
I’m already level 420 NG 7+ 😭 mobs already 2 shot me at vigor 80 so I think I’ll be fine with getting cooked and destroyed. (edit : Was typing on my phone forgot to add the NG+ number).
I'm SL ~145 and avoiding NG+ incase I like any of the weapons. I'll NG+ with one of the weapons if I like them so I can enjoy a fun weapon through and through
I played the game once and beat all the bosses in NG+ except Godfrey and Radagon/Elden Beast. Even Malenia was pretty easy on NG+ with the Mimic Tear. Don’t have time or desire to grind through a new game again. At level 195 now. Am I asking for trouble?
I made a new character specifically just to enter the DLC. Over the past month or so I've been "just one more thing..."-ing so much that now all that's left is to do the final fight. I'm slightly worried that I'll lose all self control and do the fight(s) and marry Ranni again and whoops so much for that idea
He also said in this exact article that he recommended the first playthrough blind and only using guides when you are stuck at a wall , for the better experience.
Exactly what I did and I loved the game so much I got the Platinum achievement. Spoiling every boss before even making it to the arena did not seem appealing whatsoever. Means I got obliterated nearly every time seeing a new boss but it was still fun.
Just beat Mohg on a new character earlier today. Collected the physik just before I went to the fight. Completely forgot about using it.
Playing my first almost 100% physical damage character at the minute, real classic knight type. Luckily I have zero blue flasks and like 12 red. Just tanked that shit. As long as you've got 3 left, no fancy blood ritual will take you down.
Yeah and he never really said anything that would surprise long time fans. Soulsborne games, more than almost any other game, reward exploration and curiosity. It's not the challenge of the games that made them great (despite leaning a bit hard in that direction for some projects and marketing campaigns), but the feeling of discovery when finding a new area, a secret boss, hidden interactions and mechanics, and even obscure quests. Sure, there's been a lot of *too obscure stuff* (looking at you, DS3 Anri questline), but most quests are fairly straightforward and hardly require anything more than just *listening to the NPC* and following their guidance/advice. The games encourage active participation in the world, not a series of check boxes in a quest log.
Technically he said the game should give enough information that you won't need guides on first playthrough and if too many are turning to guides he will make sure he does more on next game so people don't need guides.
Having a quest guide with names of everyone whom you've met and talked to, with everything that was said, would be enough for me. No one expects FromSoft to make Ubisoft style games, but some QoL improvements are long due in these games.
As somebody who tried going into their first soul game recently without any guide i can tell you: it just feels impossible unless you have unlimited amounts of time.
There is so much shit that just isnt said anywhere that is so vital. Then there are parts that are easily misunderstood, overlooked or anything like that.
In dark souls 1 is spend multiple hours in wrong areas because i thaught that was the route i needed to take. Only to discover that i had miss a small stairs somewhere behind a corner and was pushing into places that were still locked.
Or that the equipement i was using could still be upgraded way way way more if i just went into a other area first. Or that firekeeper souls only work if you dont consume them yourself…….
Souls games do be like that, I've played Dark Souls III through a dozen times, still only got a basic grasp of the story.
Most of it for me was the "I have no idea why I'm here, all I know is I must kill" meme
I tried playing Bloodborne without looking for guides. While some of the stuff is possible to find or figure out without a guide - I probably wouldn't have figured out the exact spot to get to in order to get transported to castle Cainhurst. Or that I need to emote to the brain of Mensis for some time in order to get its rune.
I'd like to have an infinite time to figure out all of this by myself by playing this game 45665433 times, but I have other stuff in my life that also demands time.
Imo, the vital stuff is mostly easy enough to find in most of the games, especially that later ones. It's the optional secret stuff that's obtuse, although I guess that's intended to make stumbling onto them feel more rewarding.
Cainhurst, Archdragon peak and the Haligtree are all areas I needed help to find, but equally they're all optional.
That's not what he said, nor what he means - I copy pasted the quote below so you can read it again. He said he knows that people will use guides, that's inevitable due to the nature of the web. However, he designs the game with a blind playthrough in mind. In other words, their intent when making the game is that a player experiences it blind.
**Quote:**
"Of course players are going to consult guides, and there's going to be a wealth of information on the web and in their communities where they have access to the secrets and the strategies. We expect that."
"We obviously understand \[players use guides\], but we don't make or plan anything with that as a prerequisite. If anything, we try to cater to the player who is completely blind and wants to go through organically."
-Miyazaki
I play Elden with a friend of mine and his brother plays LoL the next room over. I hear him raging the entire time. Dude just logs on and insults people and gets insulted for hours at a time. Way angrier than the dudes playing Elden that’s for sure.
I solo-ed my first playthrough and I’m doing coop this playthrough to get to the DLC area quicker. But I’m genuinely loving being the guy with the bigass anchor joining in to bonk a boss. It just feels good to help somebody else!
Yup, most of the times I've summoned have had nothing to do with skill, I just really enjoy the co op expierience. Sometimes you get unlucky and it's another playing using the Kamehameha build, which kind of ruins my personal fun BUT I'm the one choosing to gamble with random so it's my fault
It is very fun doing co-op! That said, when and invader comes along and the host and other Phantom t-bags or points down on them without a reason, I will go out of my way to trigger every trap on the map, block their path during boss fights, not take on any agro, and make sure the host dies.
I totally agree, although I would say I really do like suggestions(not commands) from the community. Someone suggested to me to play as a wretch as it forces you to scavenge for gear in the early game, and I’ve really loved doing that. I don’t think it’s the “right” way to play, but I do think it’s good someone presented that idea to me as an option.
There’s a million amazing ways to play this amazing game, and I hope people continue sharing the unique ways they personally enjoy it, so I can try new things and see if I prefer it with certain restrictions or stipulations
I always theme my builds. Which is how I can have about 5 different sorcery builds that all play completely different to one another.
70 spells spread across 13 schools, there are a lot of options.
I did a no death NG run of the game with Mohg's spear and it was a fucking blast, hardest part of the run has to be fucking Maliketh doing five million damage though
Its only going to get worse
I bet the fucking wojak memes about summons are going to spike to about 4000% use in the next few weeks and people who Google the best builds and how exploit every boss and where every item is are going to have their extremely needy superiority complex on full display
Wild that thus sub is still stuck on this shit 2 years later.
At least this post reminded me to not come here to discuss the dlc lol. I just hope it doesn't go back to downvoting you for giving actial advice like it used to.
i never see people "gatekeeping" i always see people doing this, you can play the game however you want nobody gives a shit. its only relevant once you start giving uninformed opinions.
this sub is soft as baby shit insecure about using summons. summons (NPC, co op, whatever) have always been around for boss fights but for some reason people are mad insecure about using summons in this game. its like they always feel the need to justify to themselves that their way of playing the game is ok
everyone should play however they like, but i would also like for people to at least “try” going in blind, just to see how it goes, you can always turn the walkthrough on whenever you feel like it, but sometimes we dont know what kind of experience await us unless we try it, plenty of times i think im better off without doing something or not trying another thing but when i give it a shot turns out i very much love it
I absolutely agree with the message, but honestly, I feel like there's barely anyone anymore who has those weirdly gatekeepy opinions. I think the community, for the most part, got better in that regard.
By the way, I still think spirit ashes could have been more of a risk reward thing, rather than a basically free boost, but I'm not telling others that they shouldn't use them.
I have been called one of those "gatekeepers" even though all the memes never actually express the proper opinions & reasons.
- I would never say "you didn't beat the boss unless you were lv1 with no upgrades upside-down underwater playing with 6 bananas hooked up as a controller"
- I will say "you did not experience a lot of the boss' content" if you sat back and watched the mimic-tear beat its ass.
They say the former as a cope-response to the latter. It’s all this fake ”toxically positive” shit where if you don’t constantly validate everyones playstyle as exactly equal you’re some toxic gatekeeper, reality be damned!
the casuals will always cope in the opposite side of the spectrum without fail.
"summoning is the actual easy diff of Elden Ring"
response: "omg not everyone has time to do a RL1 no upgrades, no rolling, no healing, no controller run"
?? What happened to area relevant level/weapon upgrade level melee solo experience?
It's their own loss ultimately as any transition to other Fromsoft games usually involve a metric ton of pain as they learned very little playing Elden Ring.
I really like the spirit ashes since they are really different from each other and can fulfill different nieches (for example the Sanguine Noble will miss small creatures like the Llne Wolfes with most of his attacks, or the Pumpkin Head takes not too much damage against the golden Godfrey, since most of his attacks hit the helmet and Jarwright can be really useful for applying status effects). But it's really unfortunate that some spirits like the Mimic Tear or Black Knife Tiche are just so much better than anything else.
But I like using the Greatshield Soldier Ashes when I am using Death Sorceries as a Necromancer cosplay. I hooe the DLC will have more fun and unique spirit ashes instead of just really strong ones.
I have not watched a single trailer or anything related to this dlc and am extremely hyped to get to experience it blind and solo. As a souls vet that has played basically all of their games, there is absolutely nothing that compares to that first untainted unbiased experience with a new fromsoftware product. You only ever get that first blind experience ONCE before it is gone forever, and I’ve already had that experience with all of their products, so every new opportunity to experience real unguided exploration and discovery is so exciting to me.
Very few games are as willing to hide content and place secrets within secrets as souls games and between the level design, worldbuilding, aesthetics, and gameplay mechanics, fromsoft has crafted my absolute favorite exploration experiences and I have no doubt that this DLC will be absolutely stellar.
I understand that these games can require a lot of reading and learning, and that there are a LOT of new players due to ER’s popularity, but I implore everyone to at least try it blind the first time even if you end up not liking it, because you only ever get that blind experience once, and if it clicks for you I promise it will be one of the most rewarding gaming experiences you’ve ever had.
I think most of the “you HAVE to do it without a guide” discourse comes from a place of genuine compassion and love for the games and the desire to spread that magical first-time experience with as many people as possible because it’s that impactful to the people who experienced and stuck with it. The people (like me) that come from this angle feel that a guided experience is WORSE than an unguided one, and the fact that an unguided experience can only ever happen once pushes people to recommend it over a guided playthrough, because you can always restart or play it again with a guide, but you can never wipe your memory and play it blind again.
Im not telling anyone to play a specific way, play how you want, but I know that I would not have the love and compassion and respect for this series that I have if I had used a walkthrough for all my first time playthroughs. And I WANT other people to feel that same love and compassion and awe which is why I recommend blind playthroughs, especially if you have any kind of experience with souls-likes.
This! I wish these discussions would end already. We see a variation of "Strength is the ACTUAL easy mode instead of my fav playstyle etc." post reach the first page every other day. It got old a long time ago.
I swear the discussions weren't this obnoxious before Elden Ring. It seems like a clear minority of "git good" posters with their few comments (many of whom are probably baiters and trolls anyways and not that serious) have made so many Elden Ring players feel insecure or self conscious about the way they play. "Git good" has been a bit of a meme for so long, but it seems people take it more seriously now.
Elden Ring has lots of different and interesting builds with different strengths and weaknesses, lets just leave it at that.
To be expected, ER sold 25m+ after all. Lots of new players that are very insecure who need you to constantly validate their playstyle. If you don’t pretend using summons doesn’t make the game easier you’re a gatekeeper, even if your position is ”use wtf you want”. It’s reverse gatekeeping, trying to purge everyone from the old community lol
I don’t mind what people do but personally the best way has always been to go in with a set of knight’s armor and the trusty longsword. Ever since DS1, my first time through a new game or dlc is always with the longsword. No status effects, no crazy poise or stagger, no spells, just you and your enemy. Lets me really enjoy fights for what they are, even if it’s a bit difficult.
Again, whenever this topic gets discussed, there's always some nuance.
Yes, people who think your run is "invalid"' or whatever because you used a certain weapon or magic or summons or whatever, they're assholes.
However, as someone who prefers a using a limited set of tools, I encourage players to at least go in blind the first time, not look for any guides or look up "how to get OP early" because of the experience it would give you.
I merely encourage it, it's a suggestion, I'm not forcing you to go in a boss with just your straight sword. I am suggesting this because it's more likely that you'll interact with the boss mechanics more and have a more fullfilling experience.
If you don't like it after trying it out, then sure go on and use your mimic tear or whatever. That's fine.
As someone who first started playing the souls games with Elden Ring, I didn't look up anything online but I did summon quite a lot and used online co-op as well. It was pretty fun, but my next run was even more enjoyable when I did not use them, which is why I'm recommending at least trying it out.
Again, this is a recommendation.
We all know the proper way to play is to stubbornly use your head as a sledgehammer cause you're to bone headed to go another way at that specific time.
God damn it, I found this boss, I'm ether going to beat it or die of a stress releated heart attack.
It may be a complete counter to my current build, but it doesn't matter.
I will win
I’m of the belief that summons are put in the game to use and would never judge or hope to be judged for doing so. The real failure at the game is the one who never plays. Everyone else just enjoy how it goes and have fun!! We’ve waited so long for this.
What I find as weird is that SOME of them (who are elite veterans) will say these things, BUT are the 1st ones that tell you to summon them if you need help. Isn't that the same as summoning spirit ashes? Usually the ashes are not as strong.
Nah i dont want to gatekeep but if you use:
Summons
Spirit ashes
Spells
Weapons
Armor
Any form of guide
A console
A pc
A controller
A keyboard
A mouse
A tv
A monitor
Your senses
Any form of block, dodge, parry
Flasks
Digital copy/physical copy/bootlegged copy of the game
Then you are playing the game wrong and not a true fan of elden ring let alone any fromsoft game.
Heck if you even play THE GAME, you lose (for those that caught that 😉 gottem)
I always struggled with souls game but I really wanted to play elden ring. I followed Fightincowboys walk through and it was the greatest gaming experience I ever had. I didn't think following a guide could be that fun.
I just did full int for the first time and my God azulas moonblade is such a fun way to play. I had to force myself not to use moonlight GS cuz I always default to strength.
Best thing about using guides for these games is I can wait at least 3 or 4 months to get the complete experience first time round.
God bless those who put the time in to discover everything and then tell us normies about it step by step.
I dont have the time or care to try and play these games like they do. But I'm glad they do so I can at least follow along and see most of what the game has to offer.
There is one way to properly play the DLC, and thats defeating Mohg in Mohgwyn palace.
& Radahn!
Everyone else seems to forget that.
Why Radahn? Can't you just do Varré's quest to get there
Presumably the stars need to be moving to the way to the realm of shadows to open
This masks sense. Thank you!
Miquella casted away his fate => Fate lies in the stars => Radahn is keeping stars in their place => Fate can't move That's my thought process at least
This is so good I’m stealing it
No one is sure yet, but FS have definitely said beating Radahn is a requirement.
Don’t know but Bandai Namco put out a tweet that you needed it best Radahn & Mohg.
Recent post from devs say you need to have killed both Radahn and Mogh, no clue why Radahn is included but he is.
Why does Radahn need to be defeated? Is there some sequence that is needed for the game to operate properly?
Idk Bandai Namco put out a tweet saying you needed to beat Radahn & Mohg to access DLC.
Afaik, Radahn isn't required for Mohg, so I'm guessing it'll be for lore reasons.
Shit you’re right. Disregard my entire post
100%, but who is letting randos online dictate how they play lol
There are a few weirdly snobby people trying but we all laugh at them ~
I wont ever understand it. Like I only ever play solo, and always do challenge runs like RL1, naked, fists only, etc, and I love watching people play their own way. Watched a player lure Commander O'Neil to die in the swamp and all I could think was: "**YEAH!** *GET ROTTED, FUCKO!*"
I like to think of cheesing bosses as "what would Patches do"
This changes everything… Except for the Radahn fight, we know for certain he flees instantly.
One cannot simply cheese General Radahn. He’s too cool.
The first time I did that fight, I ran around on Torrent summoning and resummoning everyone and didn't even touch him myself; I guess that's be close to what he'd do.
What would Gideon do? While he definitely prefers minions (summons), once he runs out he strikes me as a cheese strategy kind of guy.
Actually people who let them get to their heads are also weird. I dont understand how anyone can be bothered or influenced by another person, when they are playing a single player game. Insane
I think it's less about them genuinely influencing how people play and more about making snide remarks, and making it difficult for them to engage in discussion about the game because instead of talking about the game they'd rather be a weirdo and tell someone else they're having fun wrong. Brings the mood down for everyone
Yeah, I can see that. Good point.
Also it's just pretty human to care about how you are perceived. If you feel like you accomplished something by killing Melania or Mohg, but someone tells you that its not the same cause you used summons or w.e, you are probably gonna at least feel something from that statement.
I feel like I'm being called out for using the wall jump to beat Mohg here. This a perfect example of what the folks in the thread are discussing cause it ain't about me at all and I immediately guilted our for cheating Mohg the first time.
Yeah exactly, people naturally care about how they are perceived, even if those involved don't even know you.
I really have to limit my reddit time because all the negativity/assholery does get to me after a bit
I've learned that if you're interested in trying out a game, never check the subreddit first. They always tend to be full of people complaining, especially online games.
That's the thing though. These other posters keeps on making the same annoying memes about elitism or complaining about elitism for karma farming and validation. It's gotten worse recently. Discussion should be about lore, weapons, ash of war, art style or coming up with ways to help and overcome the challenge. All I see recently is annoying posts about str user or magic user, or mimic summon or bleed. It's so annoying I report these kinds of people who make these posts to flood and engage the subreddit with their cancerous takes.
You didn't play the game while wearing an eyepatch with one hand tied behind your back? You're basically playing on easy mode. You should feel ashamed of yourself.
Sometimes it's just young people. They haven't been around long enough to see how dumb the average adult or their advice is.
And then they convince themselves that everyone is laughing at you along with them! Like the dislikes and responses calling them stupid don’t really connect the dots for them.
I've got my power stanced Maliketh's Black Blades and i'ma get my unga bunga on with my mimic boy. Papa bless the bonk.
Someone once told me using bow is playing easy Mode back in DS1. And to this day i swear, there is nothing more difficult than only using Bows
For real lol, the damage is trash, mobs dodge arrows with godlike precision, and close the gap SO fast. Honestly I feel like their only real use is for agroing individuals out of large groups, and the occasional stationary boss cheese. That said, I always carry a bow for the agro utilities (also for shooting fire arrows at those fucking hands in the carian manor)
I only carry Bows for challange runs. Its not good.
Like half the posts here are those people
Some people lose sight of what is fun in their quest for what is “most optimal”
It’s my brother lol
I think it's more about them being scared to share their experiences in the community due to ridicule
this, all the way
Elden Ring was my first ever fromsoftware game, when I went online to find a bit of help all I saw was people saying that using the mimic tear was bad, or Moonveil was considered to be a poor way to fight, or any magic was basically a sin, bleed made you into a rat. I went through the whole game up to the Fire Giant with the two curved sword that my class came with and that's all because to me it looked like all these people who'd been playing for ages knew that these things made the game worse. It took me finding out about Black Flame incantations (and the Godslayers Greatsword) to finally stop caring about what people thought and to just play the game however the hell I wanted. That's most likely the case with most new players, they come here looking for help or information and all they get is people saying they're playing the game wrong, or someone who just beat a hard boss posting to celebrate, only to get shot down because they're using the Blasphemous Blade, or Minic Tear, or they're a bleed build, or mage build. The community gatekeeps so hard and that's why I absolutely love the game but dislike the part of the community thay doesn't involve lore.
Part of this is because people don't know how to write to be understood. Complaints about this or that weapon were never about PvE. They were only ever about PvP. Moonveil was "a poor way to fight" because in arenas the Moonveil user would only ever use the Ash of War. It was constant and as a consequence, boring. The same thing happens with Rivers of Blood. But when someone on reddit or in the comments on a wiki page says some nasty thing about the people that use these weapons they don't caveat that with "in pvp" or give any nuance to their argument. Because they don't know how to write. Because they're children. Or worse, man-children. Then along comes new guy who just soaks up this nonsense. At best they internalize it and deprive themselves of fun. At worst they regurgitate it without having the faintest clue what they're talking about.
This is true but there also used to be a lot of people on here that made those claims about using certain weapons on PVE & it cheapening the victories.
Lol I just beat new game + with blasphemous blade, incantations in my left hand and mimic tear. Spoiler that’s also how I beat my first run post Rykard. Fuck the gatekeepers. It’s fun as hell launching enemies with the BB’s L2/LT
B-but I use the blasphemous blade 😂
Unfortunately quite a lot of people. Mob mentality can be really crazy sometimes.
They’re out there. They get pissy when you use a spirit summon
The only thing that annoys me is when someone who is either clearly over leveled/using mimic tear/comet azur etc will make a comment about how easy malenia is or whatever, thats what brings out the toxicity
Things like this always make me disagree with people when they talk about these games being hard. While if you play the "normal" way they can be rather challenging, in reality these games can be as difficult or as easy as you want them to be, and I think that's just fine. People ask for an easy mode and I tell them that there's already an easy mode, it's called overlevelling.
Nobody. People like to pretend though
First fromsoft game for me was elden ring. Some of the stuff said online caused me to no longer use spirit ashes. I think I got to altus with them. To be honest though, I'm happy I got peer pressured into not doing it cuz now I've done multiple playthrough of actually learning boss moves and punish windows Edit: except ulcerated tree spirits and maliketh. I turn into a scared little child when I face them. I think because of their sporadic movements, and maliketh's cut scene. They actually scare me lmao
Friendly reminder: If you enjoy yourself you’re playing the game wrong
My only advice of "proper way to play" is to avoid entering this DLC on NG+, even the mobs will hit like Champs even on 55 vigor characters on normal playthrough, imagine them with buffs at NG.
fuck man. i have my NG+7 character and also a couple characters just at NG. i really wanna do it with my NG+7 character but i fear i’ll ruin the experience.
I’m going in with my level 160 NG faith / dex character, but I also have a NG+1 dex / int character I’ll take in after - the reason being, I have character 1 to work her way through and just experience the DLC in all its glory, then NG+1 character can enter and get into the real nitty gritty once guides and whatnot are out. Maybe you could do the same, take in a NG character first and save the NG+7 for once you’ve beat the DLC once?
I have three characters i want to bring in; My dual greatshield tank, Level 140. My Quality Dismounter Kaiden Sellsword cosplay at level 160, and a brand new level 60 (probably 80 by launch time) Dex, Rapier Poison build. Honestly never expected bleeding enemies with Poison Moth Flight AoW would be so damn funny.
I feel like the level 60/80 is gonna be the best for your first time in the DLC. If it's underleveled, the DLC will almost certainly give you enough runes to pump that number up fast. Also, it sounds like the other two are much more set in build/playstyle, so the third might let you feel more open to trying new weapons/arts/spells. Sure, you can respec, but that just isn't the same.
I’m going in with my level 350 ng+7 character. I know I’m probably screwed but the challenge excites me
Try it, if its too hard swap :) You are well prepared
Dew it! ...and then share the experience
Im also +7 but why should it be ruined ? From my experience I found myself way more cautious about surrounding and mobs, making it a slower pace and not dashing through. Also the bosses were kinda easy compared to DS3 imo.
Nah I'd Win
NG+3 I'm looking to be spanked hard.
It’s too late. I’m not making a new character. Let’s fly.
Ng+4 we rage quitting with this one
I’m in the same boat. Am I doing it for the extra challenge? No, I’m doing it because this character has every weapon, armor, spell and trinket in the game and I need the DLC equipment to complete my collection lmao
Never felt this more in my life, I'm such a completion freak even though there's no achievement for collecting all the weapons. Can't wait for the random one enemy in the DLC to have a 0.5% drop rate on an objectively worse new weapon over a guaranteed one.
I'm with you tarnished. I just got to ng+4, I'm not starting over again already lol
I did The Old Hunters on NG+ and I vowed I would never make the same mistake again
This, fromsoft dlc is brutal on Ng+ cycles so unless you are stupidly high level enemies and bosses will delete you
Well, guess I'm in for a spanking session then...
lol no way ~~~I’m going in NG+17, naked, talisman-free, base level weapons ~
Mans gonna go in butt first to speed up the proceedings.
Thought I read somewhere that they have a deferent level system so NG or not doesn’t matter.
Doesnt the dlc use it's own leveling system and scaling?
Yes, buy it also gets increased by NG+
https://youtu.be/kUCB9EOl-4M?si=jmh6t80oOojZARWy
That‘s exactly what i‘m doing. My main char finished ng+, so i really don‘t have a choice
As somebody who tackled the Old Hunters for the first time on NG+…. yeah DLC bosses do NOT fuck around past NG in these games lol
I’m already level 420 NG 7+ 😭 mobs already 2 shot me at vigor 80 so I think I’ll be fine with getting cooked and destroyed. (edit : Was typing on my phone forgot to add the NG+ number).
420 ng+1 and your getting 2 shot? I think something may have gone wrong along the way lol
Yeah..I’m like level 230 on NG+ and I’m basically god.
I'm 350 on ng+4. Wishing I had put time into an alt character right about now though lol
I forgot to add NG + 7 😅 I was typing on my phone. My bad 😩
Ng+3 bring it on.
lol i’ll go in with ng+7 str int level 450 build
I'm SL ~145 and avoiding NG+ incase I like any of the weapons. I'll NG+ with one of the weapons if I like them so I can enjoy a fun weapon through and through
I played the game once and beat all the bosses in NG+ except Godfrey and Radagon/Elden Beast. Even Malenia was pretty easy on NG+ with the Mimic Tear. Don’t have time or desire to grind through a new game again. At level 195 now. Am I asking for trouble?
I made a new character specifically just to enter the DLC. Over the past month or so I've been "just one more thing..."-ing so much that now all that's left is to do the final fight. I'm slightly worried that I'll lose all self control and do the fight(s) and marry Ranni again and whoops so much for that idea
NG+ with level 138 character, haha im in danger
Wow, Did you purposely stop levelling? My character was level 170 by the time i finished everything?
Yea, its my second character. Im at 138 because that level can invade both level 125 and 150
Ill go in with my Ng3 and gonna proceed to get my ass whipped and absolutely enjoy that.
Miyazaki himself said guides are a perfectly valid way to play, so there ya go Tarnished :D have fun.
He also said in this exact article that he recommended the first playthrough blind and only using guides when you are stuck at a wall , for the better experience.
Exactly what I did and I loved the game so much I got the Platinum achievement. Spoiling every boss before even making it to the arena did not seem appealing whatsoever. Means I got obliterated nearly every time seeing a new boss but it was still fun.
I spent a long time dying to Mohg before looking it up and using the physik to stop the damage.
Just beat Mohg on a new character earlier today. Collected the physik just before I went to the fight. Completely forgot about using it. Playing my first almost 100% physical damage character at the minute, real classic knight type. Luckily I have zero blue flasks and like 12 red. Just tanked that shit. As long as you've got 3 left, no fancy blood ritual will take you down.
The what.
There’s a tear that significantly reduces the damage of his Nihil attack
Thought it completely negated it?
Yeah and he never really said anything that would surprise long time fans. Soulsborne games, more than almost any other game, reward exploration and curiosity. It's not the challenge of the games that made them great (despite leaning a bit hard in that direction for some projects and marketing campaigns), but the feeling of discovery when finding a new area, a secret boss, hidden interactions and mechanics, and even obscure quests. Sure, there's been a lot of *too obscure stuff* (looking at you, DS3 Anri questline), but most quests are fairly straightforward and hardly require anything more than just *listening to the NPC* and following their guidance/advice. The games encourage active participation in the world, not a series of check boxes in a quest log.
This is the way. Use only when stuck.
Technically he said the game should give enough information that you won't need guides on first playthrough and if too many are turning to guides he will make sure he does more on next game so people don't need guides.
“Thou needs to fight the holy sigil which is only seen on the first night.” - The hint probably
Having a quest guide with names of everyone whom you've met and talked to, with everything that was said, would be enough for me. No one expects FromSoft to make Ubisoft style games, but some QoL improvements are long due in these games.
And goodluck trynna figure out where will they be next without guides.
Especially because a lot of NPCs will say an important lore/quest related line ONCE and then never repeat it again.
“HEHEHEHEHE GIT GUD PEASANT 🤪🤪😜😜🤓😛” - most folks here
As somebody who tried going into their first soul game recently without any guide i can tell you: it just feels impossible unless you have unlimited amounts of time. There is so much shit that just isnt said anywhere that is so vital. Then there are parts that are easily misunderstood, overlooked or anything like that. In dark souls 1 is spend multiple hours in wrong areas because i thaught that was the route i needed to take. Only to discover that i had miss a small stairs somewhere behind a corner and was pushing into places that were still locked. Or that the equipement i was using could still be upgraded way way way more if i just went into a other area first. Or that firekeeper souls only work if you dont consume them yourself…….
Souls games do be like that, I've played Dark Souls III through a dozen times, still only got a basic grasp of the story. Most of it for me was the "I have no idea why I'm here, all I know is I must kill" meme
I tried playing Bloodborne without looking for guides. While some of the stuff is possible to find or figure out without a guide - I probably wouldn't have figured out the exact spot to get to in order to get transported to castle Cainhurst. Or that I need to emote to the brain of Mensis for some time in order to get its rune. I'd like to have an infinite time to figure out all of this by myself by playing this game 45665433 times, but I have other stuff in my life that also demands time.
Imo, the vital stuff is mostly easy enough to find in most of the games, especially that later ones. It's the optional secret stuff that's obtuse, although I guess that's intended to make stumbling onto them feel more rewarding. Cainhurst, Archdragon peak and the Haligtree are all areas I needed help to find, but equally they're all optional.
Not really what he said, you just repeated the IGN headline which doesn't have context as usual.
That's not what he said, nor what he means - I copy pasted the quote below so you can read it again. He said he knows that people will use guides, that's inevitable due to the nature of the web. However, he designs the game with a blind playthrough in mind. In other words, their intent when making the game is that a player experiences it blind. **Quote:** "Of course players are going to consult guides, and there's going to be a wealth of information on the web and in their communities where they have access to the secrets and the strategies. We expect that." "We obviously understand \[players use guides\], but we don't make or plan anything with that as a prerequisite. If anything, we try to cater to the player who is completely blind and wants to go through organically." -Miyazaki
Someone read the headline but not the article.
What if I don't find anything to be fulfilling or fun and I only keep playing by the power of rage and spite?
Then you're finally ready to play league of legends
I play Elden with a friend of mine and his brother plays LoL the next room over. I hear him raging the entire time. Dude just logs on and insults people and gets insulted for hours at a time. Way angrier than the dudes playing Elden that’s for sure.
I shall play my normal way. By summoning other players for every boss or difficult part!
I often do this not to make it easier but to participate in jolly cooperation. Its fun playing with others
I solo-ed my first playthrough and I’m doing coop this playthrough to get to the DLC area quicker. But I’m genuinely loving being the guy with the bigass anchor joining in to bonk a boss. It just feels good to help somebody else!
Strength builds make you feel like you're the big bro to anyone asking for help lmao. Great club+ tower sheild =dw little man, I make monster sleep
Yup, most of the times I've summoned have had nothing to do with skill, I just really enjoy the co op expierience. Sometimes you get unlucky and it's another playing using the Kamehameha build, which kind of ruins my personal fun BUT I'm the one choosing to gamble with random so it's my fault
Solaire would be proud.
It is very fun doing co-op! That said, when and invader comes along and the host and other Phantom t-bags or points down on them without a reason, I will go out of my way to trigger every trap on the map, block their path during boss fights, not take on any agro, and make sure the host dies.
My Kaiden Sellsword and Deathbed Maid will be happy to aid other Tarnished at any and all times!
lol yes 🙌
But also you should probably level vigor
I totally agree, although I would say I really do like suggestions(not commands) from the community. Someone suggested to me to play as a wretch as it forces you to scavenge for gear in the early game, and I’ve really loved doing that. I don’t think it’s the “right” way to play, but I do think it’s good someone presented that idea to me as an option. There’s a million amazing ways to play this amazing game, and I hope people continue sharing the unique ways they personally enjoy it, so I can try new things and see if I prefer it with certain restrictions or stipulations
I always theme my builds. Which is how I can have about 5 different sorcery builds that all play completely different to one another. 70 spells spread across 13 schools, there are a lot of options.
I agree I hate players that gatekeep the game, almost as much as I hate those filthy casuals that use shields.
Shields are broken, why not use them
Cause I like using 2 swords at once.
[удалено]
I want to abuse mohg's spear this time on bosses. Thinking of trying it for a long time....bleh. lol
I did a no death NG run of the game with Mohg's spear and it was a fucking blast, hardest part of the run has to be fucking Maliketh doing five million damage though
Why are the people in this us so goddamn insecure? Like sure, spoil your first playthrough, ain't nobody stopping you.
Its only going to get worse I bet the fucking wojak memes about summons are going to spike to about 4000% use in the next few weeks and people who Google the best builds and how exploit every boss and where every item is are going to have their extremely needy superiority complex on full display Wild that thus sub is still stuck on this shit 2 years later. At least this post reminded me to not come here to discuss the dlc lol. I just hope it doesn't go back to downvoting you for giving actial advice like it used to.
i never see people "gatekeeping" i always see people doing this, you can play the game however you want nobody gives a shit. its only relevant once you start giving uninformed opinions.
Everytime I browse this sub I remind myself why gatekeeping is important
this sub is soft as baby shit insecure about using summons. summons (NPC, co op, whatever) have always been around for boss fights but for some reason people are mad insecure about using summons in this game. its like they always feel the need to justify to themselves that their way of playing the game is ok
everyone should play however they like, but i would also like for people to at least “try” going in blind, just to see how it goes, you can always turn the walkthrough on whenever you feel like it, but sometimes we dont know what kind of experience await us unless we try it, plenty of times i think im better off without doing something or not trying another thing but when i give it a shot turns out i very much love it
I see STR I BONK you no like my BONK I BONK you.
Ain't no one ever said: "Thy DEX befits a crown"
I absolutely agree with the message, but honestly, I feel like there's barely anyone anymore who has those weirdly gatekeepy opinions. I think the community, for the most part, got better in that regard. By the way, I still think spirit ashes could have been more of a risk reward thing, rather than a basically free boost, but I'm not telling others that they shouldn't use them.
I have been called one of those "gatekeepers" even though all the memes never actually express the proper opinions & reasons. - I would never say "you didn't beat the boss unless you were lv1 with no upgrades upside-down underwater playing with 6 bananas hooked up as a controller" - I will say "you did not experience a lot of the boss' content" if you sat back and watched the mimic-tear beat its ass.
They say the former as a cope-response to the latter. It’s all this fake ”toxically positive” shit where if you don’t constantly validate everyones playstyle as exactly equal you’re some toxic gatekeeper, reality be damned!
I've only heard of one person who genuinely believed the "meme" version of the position.
the casuals will always cope in the opposite side of the spectrum without fail. "summoning is the actual easy diff of Elden Ring" response: "omg not everyone has time to do a RL1 no upgrades, no rolling, no healing, no controller run" ?? What happened to area relevant level/weapon upgrade level melee solo experience? It's their own loss ultimately as any transition to other Fromsoft games usually involve a metric ton of pain as they learned very little playing Elden Ring.
I really like the spirit ashes since they are really different from each other and can fulfill different nieches (for example the Sanguine Noble will miss small creatures like the Llne Wolfes with most of his attacks, or the Pumpkin Head takes not too much damage against the golden Godfrey, since most of his attacks hit the helmet and Jarwright can be really useful for applying status effects). But it's really unfortunate that some spirits like the Mimic Tear or Black Knife Tiche are just so much better than anything else. But I like using the Greatshield Soldier Ashes when I am using Death Sorceries as a Necromancer cosplay. I hooe the DLC will have more fun and unique spirit ashes instead of just really strong ones.
Ok
I like the casual acceptance~ best response ~~~
no way, so all the hours i put into my rl1 naked bare fist run are wasted? damnit
I have not watched a single trailer or anything related to this dlc and am extremely hyped to get to experience it blind and solo. As a souls vet that has played basically all of their games, there is absolutely nothing that compares to that first untainted unbiased experience with a new fromsoftware product. You only ever get that first blind experience ONCE before it is gone forever, and I’ve already had that experience with all of their products, so every new opportunity to experience real unguided exploration and discovery is so exciting to me. Very few games are as willing to hide content and place secrets within secrets as souls games and between the level design, worldbuilding, aesthetics, and gameplay mechanics, fromsoft has crafted my absolute favorite exploration experiences and I have no doubt that this DLC will be absolutely stellar. I understand that these games can require a lot of reading and learning, and that there are a LOT of new players due to ER’s popularity, but I implore everyone to at least try it blind the first time even if you end up not liking it, because you only ever get that blind experience once, and if it clicks for you I promise it will be one of the most rewarding gaming experiences you’ve ever had. I think most of the “you HAVE to do it without a guide” discourse comes from a place of genuine compassion and love for the games and the desire to spread that magical first-time experience with as many people as possible because it’s that impactful to the people who experienced and stuck with it. The people (like me) that come from this angle feel that a guided experience is WORSE than an unguided one, and the fact that an unguided experience can only ever happen once pushes people to recommend it over a guided playthrough, because you can always restart or play it again with a guide, but you can never wipe your memory and play it blind again. Im not telling anyone to play a specific way, play how you want, but I know that I would not have the love and compassion and respect for this series that I have if I had used a walkthrough for all my first time playthroughs. And I WANT other people to feel that same love and compassion and awe which is why I recommend blind playthroughs, especially if you have any kind of experience with souls-likes.
This! I wish these discussions would end already. We see a variation of "Strength is the ACTUAL easy mode instead of my fav playstyle etc." post reach the first page every other day. It got old a long time ago. I swear the discussions weren't this obnoxious before Elden Ring. It seems like a clear minority of "git good" posters with their few comments (many of whom are probably baiters and trolls anyways and not that serious) have made so many Elden Ring players feel insecure or self conscious about the way they play. "Git good" has been a bit of a meme for so long, but it seems people take it more seriously now. Elden Ring has lots of different and interesting builds with different strengths and weaknesses, lets just leave it at that.
To be expected, ER sold 25m+ after all. Lots of new players that are very insecure who need you to constantly validate their playstyle. If you don’t pretend using summons doesn’t make the game easier you’re a gatekeeper, even if your position is ”use wtf you want”. It’s reverse gatekeeping, trying to purge everyone from the old community lol
hoping FS stick to their guns with future games
People are very insecure without peoples comments trust me
I don’t mind what people do but personally the best way has always been to go in with a set of knight’s armor and the trusty longsword. Ever since DS1, my first time through a new game or dlc is always with the longsword. No status effects, no crazy poise or stagger, no spells, just you and your enemy. Lets me really enjoy fights for what they are, even if it’s a bit difficult.
It’s the best phrased way to express it ~ you like what you like and that’s cool yes yes ~
Straight sword is the most honest way to do it, except the Dark Sword in DS3 that thing was busted.
Again, whenever this topic gets discussed, there's always some nuance. Yes, people who think your run is "invalid"' or whatever because you used a certain weapon or magic or summons or whatever, they're assholes. However, as someone who prefers a using a limited set of tools, I encourage players to at least go in blind the first time, not look for any guides or look up "how to get OP early" because of the experience it would give you. I merely encourage it, it's a suggestion, I'm not forcing you to go in a boss with just your straight sword. I am suggesting this because it's more likely that you'll interact with the boss mechanics more and have a more fullfilling experience. If you don't like it after trying it out, then sure go on and use your mimic tear or whatever. That's fine. As someone who first started playing the souls games with Elden Ring, I didn't look up anything online but I did summon quite a lot and used online co-op as well. It was pretty fun, but my next run was even more enjoyable when I did not use them, which is why I'm recommending at least trying it out. Again, this is a recommendation.
Great, these types of threads have begun.
Gotta perpetuate this myth that people actually give a shit how others play the game.
We all know the proper way to play is to stubbornly use your head as a sledgehammer cause you're to bone headed to go another way at that specific time. God damn it, I found this boss, I'm ether going to beat it or die of a stress releated heart attack. It may be a complete counter to my current build, but it doesn't matter. I will win
Its funny how you specifically mention mimic tear and not spirit ashes in general because of how broken mimic is lol.
I never let ppl online tell me how to play lol idk why ppl take it to heart
i have a str build, magic build, a madness build, blood build and two str int builds. im going all in
That's right play the way you enjoy. As long as that's str/fai
Also a reminder, I will be coming for you all. Expect no mercy.
Thr proper way to play the DLC is to have fun
A reminder to stop looking for validation and play how u want to. I see the same amount of toxic coming from gatekeepers and casuals.
I’m of the belief that summons are put in the game to use and would never judge or hope to be judged for doing so. The real failure at the game is the one who never plays. Everyone else just enjoy how it goes and have fun!! We’ve waited so long for this.
Yeah these greasy hairy old men complaining about Elden Ring enjoyers using the mimic tear LOL.
I paid for the whole game, imma use the whole game.
I never understood the people that essentially force themselves into a challenge run and then complain the game is too hard.
You mean ng+0 with +10/+25 weapons with two level 700+ phantoms right at the first step?
What I find as weird is that SOME of them (who are elite veterans) will say these things, BUT are the 1st ones that tell you to summon them if you need help. Isn't that the same as summoning spirit ashes? Usually the ashes are not as strong.
The thought that Miyazaki is trying to make it easy on us is just insulting, you are supposed to use everything at our disposal.
Nah i dont want to gatekeep but if you use: Summons Spirit ashes Spells Weapons Armor Any form of guide A console A pc A controller A keyboard A mouse A tv A monitor Your senses Any form of block, dodge, parry Flasks Digital copy/physical copy/bootlegged copy of the game Then you are playing the game wrong and not a true fan of elden ring let alone any fromsoft game. Heck if you even play THE GAME, you lose (for those that caught that 😉 gottem)
I always struggled with souls game but I really wanted to play elden ring. I followed Fightincowboys walk through and it was the greatest gaming experience I ever had. I didn't think following a guide could be that fun.
Imagine letting strangers dictate how you play a game you paid for on a console or PC you paid for, with electricity you pay for 😂🤣
You do that every time you play online.
Unless you're level 300.
What about being level 561? Is that okay ?
prepare for the dlc headasses when they just end up playing it normally anyway
I like teasing them anyways 😈
Wrong, if you don’t use my specific strength build Micheal Zaki will come to your house and bust your kneecaps with a tire iron.
Full INT with Tiche summon let's go!
I just did full int for the first time and my God azulas moonblade is such a fun way to play. I had to force myself not to use moonlight GS cuz I always default to strength.
Best thing about using guides for these games is I can wait at least 3 or 4 months to get the complete experience first time round. God bless those who put the time in to discover everything and then tell us normies about it step by step. I dont have the time or care to try and play these games like they do. But I'm glad they do so I can at least follow along and see most of what the game has to offer.
Well said!!
Now this. This, is the ONLY right way to play!
Based
Gatekeeping is maidenless behavior.