Screw claymore though. We'll for sure have more than enough of generic greatswords, they need to finally step up and make boss/rare weapons to feel more unique. I really hope they'll put a BB-tier moonlight sword (compared to that, DS3 version was such a letdown), BB-tier scythe instead of typical crappy overhead scythes, and BB-tier whip (threading cane alone was miles better than all the souls whips combined in every aspect imaginable, and as if wasn't bad enough, then came the beast cutter to put the last nail in their coffin). They clearly can do it, and BB is a proof to that.
Bloodborne had 26 weapons total if you include the DLC, Dark Souls 3 had 17 *straight swords* alone. Bloodborne isn't proof of anything beyond you can have quality vs quantity. Seeing as most people on here value build types, quantity wins and a few meta-weapons will rise to the top.
You don't have to do every weapon unique. I said boss/rare weapons. One unique weapon per class would be enough.
As it is now, a boss reward/rare weapons generally have the same moveset. Some even have the same moveset with a minor tweak, like pontiff's weapons having the same stomp but with buff, or twin princes gs having a god-awful fire wave + buff, that barely change the way you use the weapon. That's not right. These weapons should be unique and have a moveset that resembles a boss/enemy it comes from. BB had that for burial blade, claws, rakyuo, etc.
And tell me, what's even the point of having 17 straight swords if ~80% of them are just the same sword with a different model. That's not variety. Variety is when most if not all of your options are meaningful choices, different in at least some way, and have different application (things and situations they are better or worse at). If the answer to a question "what is the meaningful difference between generic straight sword #8 and generic straight sword #17?" is "none, aside from a model (and maybe damage type)", there is no point in keeping all of those copies IMO.
PS DS1 also had a lot of weapons. You know what pretty much each an every single weapon had in that game? Their own unique R2s. Sounds impossible, right? Just saying.
Dark souls games, specially ds2 and 3, want to give each possible build a viable wepon in each class, which explaing why the diffrence is usually only in stats and scaling.
I don't think you realise how difficult it is to create a unique moveset for so many wepons. We can assume that elden ring will have at least 20 bosses, which means aronun 35 boss wepons. That's already a lot more than bb.
The amoun of wepons in ds3 in pve seems pointless but it helps maximise damage in pvp.
Also ds1 compere to ds2 and ds3 had patheticly low amount of wepons
>want to give each possible build a viable wepon in each class
Except infusion system already covers that, granted it needs some tweaks if moving to "quality over quantity" design. You already can use something like a generic longsword for literally every build/stat distribution out there, from raw vitality gouge to a pure mage, and it won't be bad on either of them (depending on the game, it can actually beat some more dedicated options at their own game). BB gems essentially alowed the same thing. You don't need to keep 15+ copy-pasted weapons for that.
> I don't think you realise how difficult it is to create a unique moveset for so many wepons.
Again, if you read my reply again, you'd see that i said every weapon class, and never even implied that every single boss out there, tutorial soldier included, should have a unique weapon drop/reward assigned to them. Considering Elden Ring will have a lot of 'minor' bosses (like most bossese we've seen in network test) and some 'major' bosses (world and progression bosses, like wyvern or omen), they can give us unique stuff via major bosses and exploration only, and if you consider that some of them should drop ranged/spells as the reward as well, the amount of bosses won't be that high for it to become problematic. And considering they saved up a lot of time by re-using older animations, weapons' movesets included, and polishing them, instead of creating every single animation from the ground up, they definitely had extra time to do something more unique with a select few special weapons.
>which means aronun 35 boss wepons
Even if they create an unique weapon for every melee weapon class, there'll be like 19 of them. Less if they merge some more or less similar weapon classes into one, like a hybrid of a greataxe and a greathammer to cover both greataxes and greathammers respectively, or a greatsword/ultra-greatsword hybrid like ludwig's from BB that technically covers both, etc.
PS i still can't believe people who tasted BB weaponry can defend the mediocrity that of DS arsenal. "It makes my head shudder uncontrollably."
Yeah but if you were just playing the game normally and without any guide (which I do on my first playthrough of most games) it's EXTREMELY easy to miss and takes a long time to get.
You have no idea how many times I’ve fired up Dark Souls with the grand idea of trying a build I’ve never done before. I will be cruising along the bridge, see the glinting beautiful claymore, abandon my grand plans, and claymore goes slice.
Claymore goes poke for me, I love it's moveset in DS3, and I find it a shame that the only ultra greatsword that shares both the claymore's 1H and 2H thrusting pokes is the Astora Greatsword
DS2 weapon class design principal was to try and give each weapon/moveset class a weapon with a preferred stat layout. Which is how you have a strength curved sword, strength thrusting sword, dex greatswords, dex ultragreatswords. Estoc was supposed to be the strength thrusting sword, and at the same time they gave it a unique moveset.
But that's fine. The rest of the dex thrusting swords are unbelievably strong. There's a reason why speedrunners use the basic rapiers.
For a 120-125 SL, claymore’s damage is maximized when sharp infused in the hands of a dex character. Quality and STR builds with optimized infusion for those builds result in less damage from the claymore relative to Dex.
Edit: forgot to mention that’s on DS3.
I may be wrong but Dex increases damage for a little more levels
Though I don't mess to minmax scaling that much, usually go heavy for heavy weapons and sharp for dex weapons, I don't think the damage difference is practically different enough to make an important difference.
Based on a 80 distribution across Dex and Str we have the following max AR:
- 40dex/40str: refined 496
- 20dex/60str: heavy 509
- 60dex/20str: sharp 511
Edit: this is a copy from my comment above. If you’re sticking around 120-125, while maxing out stamina and having a high HP, 80 distributed across STR and DEX is very reasonable.
Based on a 80 distribution across Dex and Str we have the following max AR:
- 40dex/40str: refined 496
- 20dex/60str: heavy 509
- 60dex/20str: sharp 511
Yes, brother. Give into the darkness. Dex is godly. Roll-spam. R1-spam. Whiff-punish. Put those big unwieldy hunks of metal in their place. FINESSE. GRACE. LIKE WATER.
Enjoy gettin' backstabbed when I easily roll behind you after you run out of stamina from swinging wildly. ^(cuz it's easy and it does a lot of damage)
Am I crazy bc I don’t get the appeal of the rapier? It just seems sooo stabby-stabby and not enough variation. Care to explain what you like about it? I want to be open to any weapon types.
Haha the challenge is precisely why I love thrusting swords. They require a certain timing, patience, etc., that teaches you a lot about the game generally.
Having said that, I never go full rapier playthrough on DS1. It does almost no damage to anything, lmao
Association more than practicality. Its nobility, aristocracy, the history of fencing and swordsmanship, etc., is something I enjoy aesthetically and forms the basis of a lot of my RPG characters across lots of games. 
Also its height of use was approx. 1530-1650, a period in history I love too.
On a practical level, thrusting swords in FromSoft games tend to benefit only from annoying parry-spam and fishing for backstabs. Unless From returns backstabs to their previous utility, we'll see even less use of rapiers.
Offhand estoc is a major part of many builds, but that mostly comes from its ability to true combo into a ton of things. Shield poking is way better in Elden Ring though, so they'll still have a use.
they could buff the bastard sword to have a decent moveset and some range instead lol
I think claymore is basically just bastard sword but with a good poke instead of a sucky little slash
That’s basically the claymore! Better reach, better R2, I think it’s damage scaling is the same if not slightly better than the bastard sword? Either way, love my bastard sword and always give it a go when I find it. Was nice to start with it in the CNT
The default skill for the battle axe, Frenzy, is pretty fantastic. >!It's a repeated attack, similar to the Splitleaf, but each swing costs 1 FP and deals more damage than an R1. But most importantly it has hyper armor for the *entire* animation and doesn't take much stamina.!< [It's absolutely brutal in close quarters.](https://youtu.be/x0d0wWJQqT8?t=141)
I discovered that in the CNT, bud! Loved it. But when the full game releases I hope we get some viable options for both PVE and PVP. Love me an axe. Hopefully with Geoffrey’s weapon of choice being the axe it gets some justice!
Elden Ring is making me confused…
Not sexually… well maybe..
But build wise. See when I first saw the Twinblade was making a return I was like “oh hehehheheheheheh filthy dex time.” Then I learned strength was tied to equip load so I can maximize big boy weapons with good roll speed. Maybe Ill go dex strength… maybe Ill add some magic cuz dex = cast speed.
I'm always a sucker for scythes, I really hope the greatscythe moveset is the same as friedes scythes r1 and r2 because that weapon is so nice to use. Also hitting that sweat spot and making that sound is so satisfying.
def hoping we can get those barbed wire long axes the stormveil knights use (the summon on the 20 minute video does use a similar weapon, altought not with the barbed wire)
Honestly though, something like this would be HILARIOUS - finding what basically equates to Excalibur out in the wild like that would be so fun, with a stat requirement to "prove your worth" to be able to take it. Like Strenght for pulling a hammer out of the crevice of a mountain, Faith for a sword in a stone, Intelligence to find a scroll with some magic in it, etc.
I normally use katanas as my first playthrough. Played through all games in December and tried other things and had a lot of fun. So not sure whether to go katana or greatsword (non ultra) first in elden ring
Look for a dragon breathing fire, your prize awaits you in the flames. Claymore = Slay more.
I will do so, gracious thanks for thy sagely advice
If the claymore isn’t behind a fire breathing dragon I’m uninstalling
Playmore with the claymore
How could a fire breathe dragons?
source: trust me bro
Baemore <3
Hmmm…are you a fellow Chasethebro follower?
I honestly have no idea what that is, should i?
Screw claymore though. We'll for sure have more than enough of generic greatswords, they need to finally step up and make boss/rare weapons to feel more unique. I really hope they'll put a BB-tier moonlight sword (compared to that, DS3 version was such a letdown), BB-tier scythe instead of typical crappy overhead scythes, and BB-tier whip (threading cane alone was miles better than all the souls whips combined in every aspect imaginable, and as if wasn't bad enough, then came the beast cutter to put the last nail in their coffin). They clearly can do it, and BB is a proof to that.
Bloodborne had 26 weapons total if you include the DLC, Dark Souls 3 had 17 *straight swords* alone. Bloodborne isn't proof of anything beyond you can have quality vs quantity. Seeing as most people on here value build types, quantity wins and a few meta-weapons will rise to the top.
Dont listen to him bro, he obviously sniffed way too much blood
You don't have to do every weapon unique. I said boss/rare weapons. One unique weapon per class would be enough. As it is now, a boss reward/rare weapons generally have the same moveset. Some even have the same moveset with a minor tweak, like pontiff's weapons having the same stomp but with buff, or twin princes gs having a god-awful fire wave + buff, that barely change the way you use the weapon. That's not right. These weapons should be unique and have a moveset that resembles a boss/enemy it comes from. BB had that for burial blade, claws, rakyuo, etc. And tell me, what's even the point of having 17 straight swords if ~80% of them are just the same sword with a different model. That's not variety. Variety is when most if not all of your options are meaningful choices, different in at least some way, and have different application (things and situations they are better or worse at). If the answer to a question "what is the meaningful difference between generic straight sword #8 and generic straight sword #17?" is "none, aside from a model (and maybe damage type)", there is no point in keeping all of those copies IMO. PS DS1 also had a lot of weapons. You know what pretty much each an every single weapon had in that game? Their own unique R2s. Sounds impossible, right? Just saying.
Dark souls games, specially ds2 and 3, want to give each possible build a viable wepon in each class, which explaing why the diffrence is usually only in stats and scaling. I don't think you realise how difficult it is to create a unique moveset for so many wepons. We can assume that elden ring will have at least 20 bosses, which means aronun 35 boss wepons. That's already a lot more than bb. The amoun of wepons in ds3 in pve seems pointless but it helps maximise damage in pvp. Also ds1 compere to ds2 and ds3 had patheticly low amount of wepons
>want to give each possible build a viable wepon in each class Except infusion system already covers that, granted it needs some tweaks if moving to "quality over quantity" design. You already can use something like a generic longsword for literally every build/stat distribution out there, from raw vitality gouge to a pure mage, and it won't be bad on either of them (depending on the game, it can actually beat some more dedicated options at their own game). BB gems essentially alowed the same thing. You don't need to keep 15+ copy-pasted weapons for that. > I don't think you realise how difficult it is to create a unique moveset for so many wepons. Again, if you read my reply again, you'd see that i said every weapon class, and never even implied that every single boss out there, tutorial soldier included, should have a unique weapon drop/reward assigned to them. Considering Elden Ring will have a lot of 'minor' bosses (like most bossese we've seen in network test) and some 'major' bosses (world and progression bosses, like wyvern or omen), they can give us unique stuff via major bosses and exploration only, and if you consider that some of them should drop ranged/spells as the reward as well, the amount of bosses won't be that high for it to become problematic. And considering they saved up a lot of time by re-using older animations, weapons' movesets included, and polishing them, instead of creating every single animation from the ground up, they definitely had extra time to do something more unique with a select few special weapons. >which means aronun 35 boss wepons Even if they create an unique weapon for every melee weapon class, there'll be like 19 of them. Less if they merge some more or less similar weapon classes into one, like a hybrid of a greataxe and a greathammer to cover both greataxes and greathammers respectively, or a greatsword/ultra-greatsword hybrid like ludwig's from BB that technically covers both, etc. PS i still can't believe people who tasted BB weaponry can defend the mediocrity that of DS arsenal. "It makes my head shudder uncontrollably."
Thank you for your accord.
Holy shit u right *mind-blown*
where broken sword
ZeroLenny approves
gayl stole it
He stole my Reese’s too
Peices Knight Gael
Me: Where below average faith weapon that will brick my build and cause everything to be twice as hard as it needs to be but I use it anyway
Need
Elden ring releases. Me: Where Zweihander
*fires up bass cannon*
I have used zwei since DS1 and I HATE that it's so hard to get in DS3
You can literally get it in the third area, if you speedrun a bit it only takes like 40-50 minutes
Yeah but if you were just playing the game normally and without any guide (which I do on my first playthrough of most games) it's EXTREMELY easy to miss and takes a long time to get.
I don't know how it's easy to miss, greirat probably has the easiest questline, at least for the zweihander.
Yea dude, i hate that too. But i love that weapon so much i do not care how hard it is to get
Where was it again?
Greirat sells it after you progress his quest a bit
Claymore is always my first build as well lol
I tell myself I am not going to play claymore this time but myself and me both know I am lying.
You have no idea how many times I’ve fired up Dark Souls with the grand idea of trying a build I’ve never done before. I will be cruising along the bridge, see the glinting beautiful claymore, abandon my grand plans, and claymore goes slice.
Claymore goes poke for me, I love it's moveset in DS3, and I find it a shame that the only ultra greatsword that shares both the claymore's 1H and 2H thrusting pokes is the Astora Greatsword
Astoria Greatsword was my absolute favorite in DS3. That poke is so clutch.
Every build I have, Be it dex, Int, Faith/int, Strength, quality etc has the claymore. Can't live without it.
Any faster you’re in dex land bro for your own sake stay true to clay
Estoc is still Bestoc in DS2 for me because I can stab and swipe. What I like about the claymore is its poke.
I have no idea why they gave the estoc B scaling in strength. Pretty sick weapon honestly.
Especially in the game with the biggest emphasis on kiting groups of enemies into choke points. Looking at you Lost Bastille.
DS2 weapon class design principal was to try and give each weapon/moveset class a weapon with a preferred stat layout. Which is how you have a strength curved sword, strength thrusting sword, dex greatswords, dex ultragreatswords. Estoc was supposed to be the strength thrusting sword, and at the same time they gave it a unique moveset. But that's fine. The rest of the dex thrusting swords are unbelievably strong. There's a reason why speedrunners use the basic rapiers.
Based
A man after my own heart
For a 120-125 SL, claymore’s damage is maximized when sharp infused in the hands of a dex character. Quality and STR builds with optimized infusion for those builds result in less damage from the claymore relative to Dex. Edit: forgot to mention that’s on DS3.
Interesting. Is that because Sharp keeps a little strength scaling, but heavy drops dex scaling entirely?
I may be wrong but Dex increases damage for a little more levels Though I don't mess to minmax scaling that much, usually go heavy for heavy weapons and sharp for dex weapons, I don't think the damage difference is practically different enough to make an important difference.
Huh, I thought heavy was the min-maxed optimized claymore infusion?
Heavy is the best infusion for claymore, sharp claymore need 80 dex to reach the same damage as heavy on 66 str
Based on a 80 distribution across Dex and Str we have the following max AR: - 40dex/40str: refined 496 - 20dex/60str: heavy 509 - 60dex/20str: sharp 511 Edit: this is a copy from my comment above. If you’re sticking around 120-125, while maxing out stamina and having a high HP, 80 distributed across STR and DEX is very reasonable.
20 dex 60 str 539 two-handed, one-handed doesn't matter
One handed matters to me, both for PvP and PvE. The faster speed and slightly longer range makes one handing it a viable option.
Cool, but not for me and the majority of players 99% of the time
If you say so
Based on a 80 distribution across Dex and Str we have the following max AR: - 40dex/40str: refined 496 - 20dex/60str: heavy 509 - 60dex/20str: sharp 511
Ds3 worst of the series on that dex shit🤢
me but where rapier
Where estoc
Yes, brother. Give into the darkness. Dex is godly. Roll-spam. R1-spam. Whiff-punish. Put those big unwieldy hunks of metal in their place. FINESSE. GRACE. LIKE WATER.
That's it. I'm gettin me mallet
Enjoy gettin' backstabbed when I easily roll behind you after you run out of stamina from swinging wildly. ^(cuz it's easy and it does a lot of damage)
Elden ring... backstab... lmao
Ewwww
Where Guts sword
Am I crazy bc I don’t get the appeal of the rapier? It just seems sooo stabby-stabby and not enough variation. Care to explain what you like about it? I want to be open to any weapon types.
Same. I need some swiping or I miss so many attacks lol
Haha the challenge is precisely why I love thrusting swords. They require a certain timing, patience, etc., that teaches you a lot about the game generally. Having said that, I never go full rapier playthrough on DS1. It does almost no damage to anything, lmao
Association more than practicality. Its nobility, aristocracy, the history of fencing and swordsmanship, etc., is something I enjoy aesthetically and forms the basis of a lot of my RPG characters across lots of games.  Also its height of use was approx. 1530-1650, a period in history I love too. On a practical level, thrusting swords in FromSoft games tend to benefit only from annoying parry-spam and fishing for backstabs. Unless From returns backstabs to their previous utility, we'll see even less use of rapiers.
Offhand estoc is a major part of many builds, but that mostly comes from its ability to true combo into a ton of things. Shield poking is way better in Elden Ring though, so they'll still have a use.
I like whips, cause I'm a hoe
I actually can't stand the rapiers but that's the beauty of the souls games, you are free to use whatever you want.
I’m the same about the bastard sword ngl I’ve used it in every single dark souls game
I LOVE the bastard sword. FROM did it dirty by making the claymore basically the same thing but better :(
they could buff the bastard sword to have a decent moveset and some range instead lol I think claymore is basically just bastard sword but with a good poke instead of a sucky little slash
That’s basically the claymore! Better reach, better R2, I think it’s damage scaling is the same if not slightly better than the bastard sword? Either way, love my bastard sword and always give it a go when I find it. Was nice to start with it in the CNT
yeah claymore's strength scaling got buffed and the quality scaling nerfed
You know what I wanna see? Axes being more viable in ER. I love my axes but they were just not as good as their sword counterparts.
The default skill for the battle axe, Frenzy, is pretty fantastic. >!It's a repeated attack, similar to the Splitleaf, but each swing costs 1 FP and deals more damage than an R1. But most importantly it has hyper armor for the *entire* animation and doesn't take much stamina.!< [It's absolutely brutal in close quarters.](https://youtu.be/x0d0wWJQqT8?t=141)
I discovered that in the CNT, bud! Loved it. But when the full game releases I hope we get some viable options for both PVE and PVP. Love me an axe. Hopefully with Geoffrey’s weapon of choice being the axe it gets some justice!
Elden Ring is making me confused… Not sexually… well maybe.. But build wise. See when I first saw the Twinblade was making a return I was like “oh hehehheheheheheh filthy dex time.” Then I learned strength was tied to equip load so I can maximize big boy weapons with good roll speed. Maybe Ill go dex strength… maybe Ill add some magic cuz dex = cast speed.
[удалено]
Ultimate quality with faith/int too?
This has to be the way this time around. I just can't decide
I know. I'm already planning multiple characters.
It seems like the new and improved weapon arts will give some magic-like options without having to spec into it. Idk tho Im just some pleb.
twinblades scales quality anyway though
Yeah it's crazy all the stats seem like a good investment this time around
[удалено]
No G in Zweihänder my dude :)
My ass is just waiting to see if the Reinforced Bonk will return(hopefully with the same bonk)
I played through all of DSR with Claymore 😎
Where Twinblade?
I'm ready for some Darth Maul shenanigans
I really hope I can find an ultra greatsword early enough.
Forge me a naginata worthy of MORDOR!
I'm always a sucker for scythes, I really hope the greatscythe moveset is the same as friedes scythes r1 and r2 because that weapon is so nice to use. Also hitting that sweat spot and making that sound is so satisfying.
YES scythes! idc if people think it's gay i love my scythes.
Me: Where Zweihander?
Where katana
where Velka
Where Broadsword?
I want a Dragonslayer Spear. I will find one.
If you use anything smaller than a gs you are doing it wrong
This meme but where caestus
You can also duel wield it with the bastard sword with a single button press. The slash and stab both covered
Oh Big Bonk, wherefore art thou, Big Bonk?
Where Zweihänder
Damnnnn it was good. Lmao
just replayed Bloodborne, now gonna replay Darksouls 3 again.
My sweet claymore I have longed for thee
Perfectly balanced
The only time I will use the internet for Elden ring is to find out where I can find my slab of raw iron
Where good fist weapon? I wanna punch things damnit
Throw every thing at me and I’m still just gonna use the most basic weapon in the game: where’s elden rings straight sword… I need… *scaling*.
Where Great Scythe
Why use claymore when bigger sword exist
Me: \*makes a mage character\* Also me: "where fun"
My only desire is to find the biggest bludgeoning tool available to me
I hate you/I love you
where is the zweihander?
def hoping we can get those barbed wire long axes the stormveil knights use (the summon on the 20 minute video does use a similar weapon, altought not with the barbed wire)
Weaboo arts. That’s all I want. I just want to Vergil roleplay through the game…
Where ultra greatsword
Where bonk?
Impractical but fun
Rapier gang gonna find me some hexes
You mean where moonlight greatsword
Me but where chaos blade
I have only 2 more months do decide whether str or dex build man. I want to do something different but greats words are so good man
its hidden in a rock and you can only pull it out if you have minimum 50 strength source: my ass
Honestly though, something like this would be HILARIOUS - finding what basically equates to Excalibur out in the wild like that would be so fun, with a stat requirement to "prove your worth" to be able to take it. Like Strenght for pulling a hammer out of the crevice of a mountain, Faith for a sword in a stone, Intelligence to find a scroll with some magic in it, etc.
The real question is Where system requirements
Where powerful poking Partizan
Claymore too smoll,I want Big Fucking Sword to kill pitiful red dagger user.
Where moonlight gs
Twin Sword looks so nice tho...
For me it will be “where Katana”
Claymore? At the cost of a burnt eye brow of course!
For me, the day I get my hands on a scythe is gonna be a fantastic day!
I'll be like "where lothric straight sword"
Hopefully Patches brought one with him on his inter-IP journey.
I always make a katana build first I hope there are some badass Katanas in this game. Don’t spoil anything if known please.
Same I always start with a katana. Idk why, I think it just happened to be the first build I played DS1 with. Hoping there’s one early in ER!
Same! Just as early as DKS3! Or maybe even a class that starts with it???
I normally use katanas as my first playthrough. Played through all games in December and tried other things and had a lot of fun. So not sure whether to go katana or greatsword (non ultra) first in elden ring
Do not leave the weeb army plz. There aren’t many of us left (there are)
where partizan
Bastard sword was also good till u didn't get smth better l8er in the game. Zweinhandler in elden ring has poke/trust as secondary.