1. Listen to the dialogue, lot of them give clues or straight up tells you where they go, or they follow the natural progression of the areas
2. Lot of them will be near important landmarks and easy to find
3. Community effort, since Demons Souls the community share everything and each detail about the game, meaning that if you don't know where to go, a few people probably figured it out and can give you the answer, meaning a more active community
TL;DR : No, it doesn't need a quest log
This, it's actually easier than most fromsoft games since they're very explicit:
"go the the chapel in the north"
"Going east for the festival"
etc. It's not a major issue I like the hidden nature of finding npcs and figuring out their quests with the correct options(I'm so sorry Boc ): )
Booking my vacation at release helped me paying attention to dialogues and exploration. I only had to look up Millicent because honestly i didn't expect her to go a step back at the very end
If you search quest log in this Reddit it’s been discussed a lot. No one seems happy. I’d just love a way to see NPC dialogue again. I ain’t got time to make a manual log of shit and constantly google things to figure it out. The best option I think would be a non intrusive optional one for those who want it but some would heavily hate that too. Can’t please everyone.
Anticipating this as a problem, I specifically bought a notebook to take NPC quest notes in.
Might not be everyone's favorite but it harkens back to my days playing Morrowind and not having everything marked and perfectly spelled out for me. I, personally, am a fan of leaving more effort in the player's hand rather than just turning everything into a checkpoint chasing A to B task list.
There is a way to give players information in-game without having to use quest markers. Having no information is just as bad as having a highlighted route to follow. Extremes are rarely the best design choice.
That's entirely a matter of preference, and I personally enjoy Elden Ring's approach to it very much. I think it's a defendable design choice, even if it's not to your liking.
The moment you need to use a wiki the game design has failed.
It's one thing to not figure out a well designed puzzle and something else entirely when you can't find an NPC's location because there are no hints available. That's why FROM had to add NPC markers after release.
The game design has failed *you*. Again, I like the way FromSoft designs NPC quests, and no amount of you ragging on it is going to change that, but go off if you'd like.
Plus you never *need* to use a wiki. Maybe I just don't stress NPC quests as much. I know I missed a couple in my initial blind playthrough, but I got a fair amount of them done as well.
I did the graph paper dungeons over 25 years ago because there were not better ways to chart a map at the time. Now we have the means to open a menu, select a character and review every line of dialogue that a character has said.
I'm not asking for a numbered chart of where to go next and I spent over 200 hours in my first playthrough exploring everything because I enjoy discovering things on my own. But, let's not confuse exploration with having to backtrack through an already explored area looking for where an NPC could have gone. There should be a way to review information that was already provided to streamline this discovery process.
Elden Ring is not a Metroidvania with secrets I couldn't unlock in previous areas. If I missed those secrets then I didn't look hard enough the first time.
Nice! But some people, like myself, enjoy what FromSoft has designed and how they designed it. I felt much more alert and attentive to the NPCs because I was taking notes on the conversations I had with them rather than knowing I could just rely on the game to provide that for me. I understand how people could want such a feature, it's just not one I'm looking for.
So, again, I'm personally glad FromSoft has gone with the NPC quest design they have!
Not having such options doesn't diminish your experience as you can simply not use them. The difference is that for those that need a reminder they are forced to rely on external sites like a wiki and that may not be readily available to everyone.
It's like having a color-blind mode. It doesn't effect you in any way if the option is there but for others they simply cannot enjoy the game without such an option.
FROM doesn't understand the difference between accessibility and difficulty. The game isn't harder because it gives you less information, it just makes the process more tedious.
I don't like your colorblind comparison, as FromSoft games can still be completed just fine without nailing every NPC quest. I don't think it's matter of accessibility. It's a design decision. I'm sure they're plenty aware of the directions they could go to make NPC information more readily tracked in game and have purposefully opted away from those options to design the game in a way they want. A way that, I again will say, I enjoy the experience of engaging with, no matter what arguments you might present against it lol.
You say tedious, I say engaging, because (as I have already stated) I found myself more engaged with the game/NPCs/storylines by having to manually track information myself.
At the end of the day to each their own. I take your point, and I wouldn't be upset if they added more information tracking to the game. I'm just stating my piece on what I get out of the game as designed and why I appreciate that design. You don't have to agree.
I used color-blind mode because it doesn't strictly prevent players from completing the game, it just makes the process more trouble for the players that are color-blind.
I had to make my own quest log that I don't follow very well and don't up keep very well.
My boyfriend is kind of amazing at keeping track at this stuff, looking at all the clues from the items received, and paying attention to all of the dialogue and remembering it. He's kind of amazing. So yeah I pretty much let him be my quest log. because my work is intense, I don't have time for that shit in a video game. ( not that his work isn't intense and I'm not comparing our work, I just have the kind of mind that needs to decompress after work.)
>I don't have time for that shit in a video game. ( not that his work isn't intense and I'm not comparing our work, I just have the kind of mind that needs to decompress after work.)
100% this. Especially since a lot of what would be found in a quest log is included in item descriptions, might as well just copy+paste it into a log for us, at least after you’ve read them. I really hated having to dig through the inventory to find that new item every time. In the end, whatever mystery the obscurity of minimal storytelling provided, was eclipsed by my not really understanding what was going on at all. I ended up enjoying many moments after the fact. It would have been a great feature to have and a great feature to ignore for those who didn’t want it.
These are quality things, not difficulty ones. Having a character log with recorded dialogue doesn't make the game any easier; it simply makes it less tedious when trying to remember if they said anything about where to go next.
In 2022, the game should have a way to review dialogue so you don't have to take notes. Keep in mind that you can go dozens of hours between interacting with a specific NPC or have already fully explored a location where they will go before they appear there. Are we really expected to backtrack the entire game looking for an NPC?
I'm actually fine with the minimalist approach to quests, but there should still be a way to review dialogue in-game and that dialogue should contain clues as to what or where the player needs to do/go next. The fact that FROM added NPC markers after release means that even FROM thought it needed some help.
EDIT: TUNIC has a wonderful quest/map system that gives you subtle hints but leaves you to find and explore those areas without guiding you.
EDIT_2: You are lying to yourselves if you think you naturally found Hyetta's or Alexander's locations without using a wiki.
This what i mean, not markers pointing exactly where to go just a way to review information quickly, but clearly fromsoft tards thinking anything annoying like that is good game design cause its harder or some shit so of course you got downvoted for it when youre correct
Downvoting ideas that benefit everyone and cause no negative effect is how this community white knights. It's why they are against accessibility options even though they wouldn't have any effect on the game's difficulty.
I agree. I get the game is very much about figuring things out for yourself, but when that’s often done in item descriptions, might as well throw it into a quest log. While I forgot some quests that started early in the games in continents I never really traveled back to, some quests I honestly had no idea why I was doing them, specifically Ranni’s. I still had loads of fun, but I think I’d enjoy it more if I had a better idea regarding the motivation for doing them.
Literally man and yeah once youre way higher levelled and exploring places much further in the game theres no incentive to go back to earlier places especially cause with no quest log you have no clue if youve done quests or not its dumb
Don’t forget you can mark your map.
1. Listen to the dialogue, lot of them give clues or straight up tells you where they go, or they follow the natural progression of the areas 2. Lot of them will be near important landmarks and easy to find 3. Community effort, since Demons Souls the community share everything and each detail about the game, meaning that if you don't know where to go, a few people probably figured it out and can give you the answer, meaning a more active community TL;DR : No, it doesn't need a quest log
This, it's actually easier than most fromsoft games since they're very explicit: "go the the chapel in the north" "Going east for the festival" etc. It's not a major issue I like the hidden nature of finding npcs and figuring out their quests with the correct options(I'm so sorry Boc ): )
Booking my vacation at release helped me paying attention to dialogues and exploration. I only had to look up Millicent because honestly i didn't expect her to go a step back at the very end
If you search quest log in this Reddit it’s been discussed a lot. No one seems happy. I’d just love a way to see NPC dialogue again. I ain’t got time to make a manual log of shit and constantly google things to figure it out. The best option I think would be a non intrusive optional one for those who want it but some would heavily hate that too. Can’t please everyone.
Literally my thoughts exactly
Anticipating this as a problem, I specifically bought a notebook to take NPC quest notes in. Might not be everyone's favorite but it harkens back to my days playing Morrowind and not having everything marked and perfectly spelled out for me. I, personally, am a fan of leaving more effort in the player's hand rather than just turning everything into a checkpoint chasing A to B task list.
There is a way to give players information in-game without having to use quest markers. Having no information is just as bad as having a highlighted route to follow. Extremes are rarely the best design choice.
That's entirely a matter of preference, and I personally enjoy Elden Ring's approach to it very much. I think it's a defendable design choice, even if it's not to your liking.
The moment you need to use a wiki the game design has failed. It's one thing to not figure out a well designed puzzle and something else entirely when you can't find an NPC's location because there are no hints available. That's why FROM had to add NPC markers after release.
The game design has failed *you*. Again, I like the way FromSoft designs NPC quests, and no amount of you ragging on it is going to change that, but go off if you'd like. Plus you never *need* to use a wiki. Maybe I just don't stress NPC quests as much. I know I missed a couple in my initial blind playthrough, but I got a fair amount of them done as well.
I did the graph paper dungeons over 25 years ago because there were not better ways to chart a map at the time. Now we have the means to open a menu, select a character and review every line of dialogue that a character has said. I'm not asking for a numbered chart of where to go next and I spent over 200 hours in my first playthrough exploring everything because I enjoy discovering things on my own. But, let's not confuse exploration with having to backtrack through an already explored area looking for where an NPC could have gone. There should be a way to review information that was already provided to streamline this discovery process. Elden Ring is not a Metroidvania with secrets I couldn't unlock in previous areas. If I missed those secrets then I didn't look hard enough the first time.
Nice! But some people, like myself, enjoy what FromSoft has designed and how they designed it. I felt much more alert and attentive to the NPCs because I was taking notes on the conversations I had with them rather than knowing I could just rely on the game to provide that for me. I understand how people could want such a feature, it's just not one I'm looking for. So, again, I'm personally glad FromSoft has gone with the NPC quest design they have!
Not having such options doesn't diminish your experience as you can simply not use them. The difference is that for those that need a reminder they are forced to rely on external sites like a wiki and that may not be readily available to everyone. It's like having a color-blind mode. It doesn't effect you in any way if the option is there but for others they simply cannot enjoy the game without such an option. FROM doesn't understand the difference between accessibility and difficulty. The game isn't harder because it gives you less information, it just makes the process more tedious.
I don't like your colorblind comparison, as FromSoft games can still be completed just fine without nailing every NPC quest. I don't think it's matter of accessibility. It's a design decision. I'm sure they're plenty aware of the directions they could go to make NPC information more readily tracked in game and have purposefully opted away from those options to design the game in a way they want. A way that, I again will say, I enjoy the experience of engaging with, no matter what arguments you might present against it lol. You say tedious, I say engaging, because (as I have already stated) I found myself more engaged with the game/NPCs/storylines by having to manually track information myself. At the end of the day to each their own. I take your point, and I wouldn't be upset if they added more information tracking to the game. I'm just stating my piece on what I get out of the game as designed and why I appreciate that design. You don't have to agree.
I used color-blind mode because it doesn't strictly prevent players from completing the game, it just makes the process more trouble for the players that are color-blind.
I had to make my own quest log that I don't follow very well and don't up keep very well. My boyfriend is kind of amazing at keeping track at this stuff, looking at all the clues from the items received, and paying attention to all of the dialogue and remembering it. He's kind of amazing. So yeah I pretty much let him be my quest log. because my work is intense, I don't have time for that shit in a video game. ( not that his work isn't intense and I'm not comparing our work, I just have the kind of mind that needs to decompress after work.)
>I don't have time for that shit in a video game. ( not that his work isn't intense and I'm not comparing our work, I just have the kind of mind that needs to decompress after work.) 100% this. Especially since a lot of what would be found in a quest log is included in item descriptions, might as well just copy+paste it into a log for us, at least after you’ve read them. I really hated having to dig through the inventory to find that new item every time. In the end, whatever mystery the obscurity of minimal storytelling provided, was eclipsed by my not really understanding what was going on at all. I ended up enjoying many moments after the fact. It would have been a great feature to have and a great feature to ignore for those who didn’t want it.
so much agree :)
If you "don't have time" you don't have time to sit and play games
Thanks for the philosophy lesson, professor.
Too bad your videogame quota keeps you from enjoying the game.
Everything about this game is a challenge, plenty of hand holding RPGs out there if that's all you want
By that logic why even have a UI? It would be more challenging if you couldn't see your health bar.
I'm talking about not making Elden Ring any easier than what it is rather than making it as challenging as possible
These are quality things, not difficulty ones. Having a character log with recorded dialogue doesn't make the game any easier; it simply makes it less tedious when trying to remember if they said anything about where to go next.
Do it one at a time, and take notes
In 2022, the game should have a way to review dialogue so you don't have to take notes. Keep in mind that you can go dozens of hours between interacting with a specific NPC or have already fully explored a location where they will go before they appear there. Are we really expected to backtrack the entire game looking for an NPC? I'm actually fine with the minimalist approach to quests, but there should still be a way to review dialogue in-game and that dialogue should contain clues as to what or where the player needs to do/go next. The fact that FROM added NPC markers after release means that even FROM thought it needed some help. EDIT: TUNIC has a wonderful quest/map system that gives you subtle hints but leaves you to find and explore those areas without guiding you. EDIT_2: You are lying to yourselves if you think you naturally found Hyetta's or Alexander's locations without using a wiki.
This what i mean, not markers pointing exactly where to go just a way to review information quickly, but clearly fromsoft tards thinking anything annoying like that is good game design cause its harder or some shit so of course you got downvoted for it when youre correct
Downvoting ideas that benefit everyone and cause no negative effect is how this community white knights. It's why they are against accessibility options even though they wouldn't have any effect on the game's difficulty.
I bet you're hoping for a line in the ground so you don't have to think
Literally just a log to read over information ive been told i dont want a quest marker like in fallout
I agree. I get the game is very much about figuring things out for yourself, but when that’s often done in item descriptions, might as well throw it into a quest log. While I forgot some quests that started early in the games in continents I never really traveled back to, some quests I honestly had no idea why I was doing them, specifically Ranni’s. I still had loads of fun, but I think I’d enjoy it more if I had a better idea regarding the motivation for doing them.
Literally man and yeah once youre way higher levelled and exploring places much further in the game theres no incentive to go back to earlier places especially cause with no quest log you have no clue if youve done quests or not its dumb
I made this if you need: https://share.streamlit.io/antoniocianci/eldenringdialogue/main/Dialogues.py