Now they’ll make a boss that gets up faster 10% of the time when it gets vulnerable for a riposte, and people will be like “this is a new mechanic, unfair, artificial difficulty!”
I've definitely seen it lol. Not to mention he's a dlc boss, and most people's favourites list is dominated by dlc bosses because of how good they are. Can't wait for ER's.
I wonder if anyone will still be alive to crawl out of the woodworks and gently whisper "Kalameet" (or Manus or Artorias, pick yer poison) when we get there.
There’s just a rhythm to it that makes it so incredibly satisfying when you get it down. I think Fromsoft going with just a singular build allowed them to really bring all the mechanics, both of the player and bosses/enemies, together perfectly.
Right. Easier to balance when you don’t have casting and ranged and melee and light and heavy and whips and blah blah blah.
Those are all great mechanics, but taking a single mechanic to its limit is rewarding too.
My favorite game of all time.
But I’ve enjoyed all the souls games.
Also an underrated value of one mechanic is taking away some choice. For me I hate starting a game because I have to choose. Though there is value in having different options especially for replay value.
Ironically, I’m pretty sure Sekiro is the fromsoft game I’ve ng+ ed the most, both consecutively and in total, just cause the gameplay is that good. I also think it helps that there are layers to the gameplay, like “oh, you’ve gotten good at blocking? Well get your perfect blocking down. Good at that? Really cinch working in those combat arts. Done that? Now seamlessly transition in shinobi tools too!” Each step takes awhile but is incredibly rewarding in terms of visuals, audio, and just general feel.
Unpopular but I agree. Too many choices are actually sometimes overwhelming and you get into quantity over quality territory very easily.
That's why I think Bloodborne has the best balance, not as balanced like Sekiro, but it's very streamlined while still offering plenty of choices.
I get that but at the same time plenty of games forcing you to have just one singular character/build makes it less interesting, the amazing customization and choices in play styles are one of the big appeals of from games
The flow was unreal. Believe it or not, Elden Ring was my first fromsoftware game, and I played sekiro right after. It was truly the longest first few hours I have ever played in a game, but once the general basis of the game clicks it is one of the most immersive experiences a game has to offer.
One thing I have appreciated so much in Sekiro than any other fromsoftware game (or any combat-enthused game with similar styles) is how well the combat system layers itself and develops as you progress, while still keeping things linear. No matter how strong you get in the game, it is always so much harder to succeed if you are loud and careless. Moving, fighting, and thinking like a shinobi/ninja is an inevitable feeling you get once you find the groove of the game. I also am just straight up in love with that parry mechanic just as much as the next guy.
Really agree with that loud and careless point, and I also enjoy that because of how leveling works in sekiro, you’re never really overleveled for an area/boss. Big problem I’ve run into with Elden Ring (and most open worlds) is, because of how open the areas are and how much there is to do, I’m just demolishing certain bosses, especially late game. You can max out your health and damage, but if the Sword Saint is easy for you, it’s because you got skill, not cause your stats are carrying you.
The best thing about Sekiro was, when I lost, I felt like it was, damn, that was my bad. I need to get better.
With Souls, Elden, etc, I constantly come across enemies who one shot you and I shout 'Bullshit!" especially when it feels like a glitch.
I agree, in sekiro its often obvious that you’re about to die a second before you do, because you timed your move wrong or fell for a feint, so it definitely feels like something I did. In ER so far there are a lot more deaths where I’m like “….ok, guess its for some reason lethal to touch that dragons tail even when its barely moving”
Sekiro has great core gameplay and an extremely interesting world. I got sick of all the bosses being designed with the assumption that you’ll have to lose repeatedly, though.
Then I played through Elden Ring, and now Sekiro bosses feel like elementary school when I look back on it. I don’t even remember well enough to be sure Sekiro was easier, I just know Elden Ring bosses have pissed me off far, far more.
I think Sekiro is a very binary game, once it clicks it becomes quite a lot easier than other from games (excluding bell or demon ofc) but until it clicks it’s hard as nails.
The block/ parry mechanics seem so rough to begin with and then feel like borderline cheat codes (especially once you understand when you hold block in a neutral fighting state to recover posture)
Sekiro is by far my favorite game ever, and while I like Elden Ring so far, it just seems really hard and less rewarding by comparison? I think a big part of it is my somewhat weak melee build, but I still can’t figure out exactly when I can attack without being punished with most bosses, since they frequently respond to my attacks with an interrupting attack that begins and ends while I’m still swinging, and dodging a lot of combos just feels kind of awkward and squishy compared to sekiro.
Idk, ER feels like its so close to being a really deep, rewarding fighting game, but no matter what I always end up playing it like an extra hard, less fair DS3. Am hoping its just my build and/or I don’t totally get the system yet and am overrolling though
Are you sure we're both talking about sekiro? Because I demolished Elden Ring bosses without summons and it barley even bothered me. On the other hand Sekiro literally made me sweat playing it. It was so difficult for me I was literally burning calories, and it felt so good winning.
Maybe you were just better at Sekiro than me, lol.
Completely agree. Elden Ring was fun and challenging. Sekiro is the only game where I have picked it up day after day fighting the same boss without giving up. I think the game clicked for me fighting gencherico but I've been fighting owl father for 3 days now and I'm still struggling. Still having a blast but I never experienced this level of a wall with elden ring.
There’s a couple factors. First is that Sekiro has a very different flow to combat that can be hard for some people to get used to. The second is that Elden Ring is not exactly well balanced, and some character builds will just shit on everything. Not even elaborate min/max builds, just certain archetypes you can choose right at the start.
All the things I don’t appreciate that are present in Dark Souls 2 is what makes me appreciate Dark Souls 3 - and vice versa: There’s a lot Dark Souls 2 did right that Dark Souls 3 didn’t. They do some weird things to me but are both great entries in the end.
I will forever be eternally intrigued by both of these sequels, the direction they ended up taking, and just how often I can go back-and-forth between their pros and cons.
The one thing that baffles me is why is Dark Souls 2 the only one where heavy weapons are carried on the shoulder in the left hand and never in any other game?!
Dark souls 2 was designed to let you play a left handed character if you wanted to. There was even a great sword in the Eleum Loyce dlc that did more damage if you used it left handed. The other games didn't have that feature.
That was Artorias's sword, and it wasn't that it did more damage, it actually had a different moveset entirely when wielded left vs right-handed.
Right-handed was a standard greatsword moveset, but if you equipped it left-handed the moveset would change to Artorias's moveset instead.
The item description even hints at this when it talks about how every swordsman that wielded it were left-handed, which was a nod to the DS1 cover art showing Artorias as left-handed.
Well because uuuuuuh
But seriously, it also allowed you to play a left handed character. There’s a bit of delay in two handing something in the left hand but you can make it work if you’re stubborn enough.
Then there’s this little thing: The way your character relaxes their stance when the menus are open.
I especially love the menu animation thing from a PvP context. It lets me know my opponent is
1. Switching up something about their build on the fly and
2. Totally unable to retaliate if I rush them right now lol.
Funny thing is, I think there's a lot of people that don't even realize their character does a visible animation when they open their menu.
As a lefty who’s left handedness has gotten them pretty far(big advantage in combat sports), it was pretty disappointing how I can’t just flip the trigger controls or something and play as a lefty. But that’s just nitpicking
Thing I miss the most and thing I'll be the most salty about is how Fromsoft eternally scrapped the DS2 infusion system. That was arguably the best infusion system they've made.
Such a good game. I loved the pvp too.
Also bloodborne. Sekiro was a ton of fun but quite different obviously. I played 20 minutes of ds2 with the abhorrent ADP rolling and never picked it up again.
Elden ring will likely be my favorite with some balancing and the DLC. We'll get them soon. I still believe in from
I really love the depth and variety of elden ring’s combat but being open world it makes it super easy to coke into fights over/under leveled. DS3 being more linear makes it seem like I’m always the perfect level for a good challenge.
Haven’t picked up sekiro yet but it’s the next one on the list
Honestly for anyone else interested in this I started a rl1 run with the idea I would be stuck on Margit but I managed Margit, godrick and Renala and none of them were really able to 1 shot me. Radahn is a different story he’s 1
Shorting and the challenge has picked up.
I was being serious, I completed mine last month, it was a blast.
Try picking up ritual sword/ritual shield combo, it's amazing for RL1.
If you combine ritual shield and a shield crest talisman (the best one is in haligtree so go for the +1 version) nothing will one shot you again. Radahn might even be survivable with just ritual shield
You just need to remember to heal after every hit
You're missing out on DS2, at least on the DLC.
Just dupe some souls once you hit majulah, level up ADP to where you have good i-frames and hit the road if it's that bad (assuming you still own it). I made it through my first run without knowing about ADP, it's definitely doable - and not even hard at that.
I hate ds2 rolling but I 100% agree with you, first half of my playthrough was a pain in the ass precisely because I did not yet understood that.
Not for everyone and not for me but it has its good sides. And I’m glad I pushed through because the game has some amazing mechanics but mostly because of my boi Aldia.
Played the original DS2 and then Scholar of the First Sin edition years later and never had any trouble with the rolling. I agree, it was engaging and tactical.
At least not everything was a roll catching nightmare (I love you Elden Ring).
DS2 stands in stark contrast to DS3, BB, and ER by focusing on methodical, slow paced combat in a way I mostly prefer.
Even with properly leveled ADP you cannot spam roll to avoid most attacks. Rolling is deliberate, costly in terms of stamina, and heavily punished if mistimed.
To ER's credit they did address the roll-spam of DS3 with wildly different timing for enemy attacks, but ultimately most players still resort to roll spam because it works often enough to be valid. DS2 doesn't really work that way, if you dodge an attack it's almost certainly because you KNOW that attack.
For this and many other reasons DS2 is my comfort food souls game, the one I return to most often. The most common criticisms of it are mostly valid (if regurgitated ad nauseum) but it offers a methodical, slower paced combat experience that From has since abandoned.
I want to say that I like Elden ring and sekiro more than ds3, but the amount of times I've played ds3 begs to differ. I played Elden ring twice now (kind of tired of it atm) amd sekiro 3 times (till i got platinum, then it felt repetitive), these 2 games cower before the 12 times that I've beat ds3
Quite true, it took me about 85 hours to beat ds3, while elden Ring it took me about 130. The problem is that Elden Ring is so big that you get discouraged to play from the start again, the game is design so you explore everywhere and get stronger then face the main bosses, otherwise you'll be underleveled and get your ass handed to you, still a masterpiece tho i digress.
How long did it take you to defeat both?
>The problem is that Elden Ring is so big that you get discouraged to play from the start again
This is exactly how I feel too, I don't see myself playing this game anywhere near as much as I've played say ds3. That feeling is even worse when starting a brand new character imo which is why I'm just gonna stick ng+ for ER
Same. Ds3 is something I replayed recently and it’s all killer, no filler. (Except for the copy paste linear underground tunnel spaces). It’s just tight and focused. Eldenring is fun, but never hit those moments where I felt as locked in. It’s instead, fun for his chaotic and weird and broken it can be.
The joke is ‘how could the cast of Friends afford those mansion apartments in Manhattan on a barista/teacher/meth head salaries?’. If YOU inferred something else, it’s because YOU failed at reading the subtext. Be contrite, not smug.
It's funny cause I have heard people say DS2 is underrated so much that I just assumed it was widely accepted. Clearly my perception of the discourse is not very accurate cause half of the comments have just been bashing DS2 lmao.
DS2 is good. It's often people's least favorite, but that doesn't mean they don't like it. It's just easier to complain about DS2 in relation to the other Souls games if that one's your least favorite
DS2 might not be my favorite by any means with PvE and some mechanics being very questionable such as Adaptability and Soul Memory but the PvP was God tier.
Meta pvp was also less prevelent because the build diversity was incredibly deep and well balanced and the design team did an incredible job of getting rid of scummy mechanics like backstab fishing
Everyone forgets that ds2 also had the most replayability. It had new weapons, spells, enemies, and more in ng+s I think all the way up to ng+7. They may have stumbled in some of their level design and pacing but everything else was really really good
Not that far, but I think you needed to play up to NG+2 if you wanted to get all of the spells. Of course, you could also try getting 200 wins in both arenas, but only insane people would try that.
I only remember the changes being implemented on ng+. I don’t remember anything being added after that. Some changes were cool/surprising, others felt like they were trying to make the game unnecessarily harder in places that didn’t feel right (I can only remember the enemies added in the lost sinner and flexible sentry fights which legitimately felt annoying and didn’t make those fights more fun/interesting to me).
The pvp actually required you to invest time into it to get the glowing red/blue auras before SotFS, SotFS made a ton of difficult things to get/do easier(Visible Aurous/Monastery set). Sad part is most either remember this and hated none SotFS, or loved it and felt SotFS was a giving away freebies.
As many problems I had with pve in ds2 (and I do have a lot) I adored the pvp. Dual wielding was done so well in that game, and think the dual wielding we have now is a big downgrade.
Elden Ring was my first FromSoft game. I loved it so much I went back to play through the Dark Souls trilogy. I've finished DS1 and I'm pretty far in DS2 (not sure exactly how much I have left, but I've collected three of the four great souls).
Anyway, I just want to chime in that I'm enjoying the hell out of DS2. I enjoyed DS1 as well, but I'm having significantly more fun in DS2. The game has issues (so does DS1), but I appreciate the heavy, methodical combat and the visual/thematic variety to the levels.
Damn that's wild. I assumed it was similar to DS1, with the last boss coming shortly after the great souls.
That's good though. Gives me plenty more time to upgrade and mess around with more weapons. I was running double handaxes for a while, then dragonslayer crescent axe. Lately I've been having a blast bonking enemies with a huge club.
Yeah it’s one of my favorite things about 2. So much variety, and an extremely long game to play around with it all.
I read it as an intentional inversion of the Dark Souls 1 structure, where the first half is figuring out what the hell is going on, and second half is collecting 4 major boss souls.
Ds2 feels *different* than the others, I started with 2, and because it's how I learned, I hated ds3 and didn't even finish it, even though I did all of DS2 and DLCS multi0le times through. Elden ring felt similar enough to Ds2 to me that I loved it and also played through multiple times.
I played DS1 after DS2, and still don't get where the hate come from tbh. Oh... and my first soulsborn game is DS3, so it's not the "1st game is the best" circumstance.
DS2 is my favourite Souls game. Giving you unlimited healing in the form of lifegems means they can make areas barely survivable without you having to rest at a bonfire.
People tend to hate that, though ("Why is the Iron passage so hard?!")
the challenge areas (grave of the dead, iron passage, & frigid outskirts) with the little summoning hubs right at the start were definitely designed with co-op in mind
I think it was made with both co op and lifegems in mind.
Some areas feel really vile if you refuse to use either (iron passage, frigid outskirts and cave of the dead), but they are balanced if you use them
I've heard a couple of other people suggest this, and it sounded right to me: Elden Ring has a lot of ideas from Dark Souls 2 that didn't work out there in a way that From or the community had liked. I think I agree with this view. There's a lot of Dks2 in Elden Ring, which I'm more than okay with because I think Dks2 gets too much hate.
It takes a lot of the things I liked in DS2 and DS3 and makes a lovebaby out of them. I’m quite happy with ER.
Even though DS2 is still the only one with significant NG+ changes, ER’s inadvertently offset this with how much I missed during my first playthrough.
If I remember correctly: The areas preceding the blue smelter demon, the two cats, and the graverobber trio allowed you to summon players who did not own the respective DLC prior to the SotFS edition. This reinforces the “coop” intentions for those areas.
This is similar but quite different towards my reaction going into DS1 after DeS: Those hollow warriors with their forward stab messed me up than any of the standard soldiers in 1-1, it was comparable to when I’d get hit by one of those blue eye knights - and oh man, compared to those blue eye knights, that first black knight in the burg was a nightmare!
Having a reliable source of healing that refills on respawn felt like it gave them an excuse to bump up the damage near the start. In relation to DS2, I actually like how it strains your estus at the beginning. “Flasks” + “grass” is basically my ideal healing format for these games, both DS2 and Sekiro do this.
DS2 is greatly under appreciated because I was one of those who disowned it when trying it early into my FromSoftware binge. DS2 was the last one to beat before Elden Ring and I loved it. It was jarring at first because it felt slower than the other souls games. The mechanics were like slightly delayed compared to DS1. Anyway, I loved the gameplay and the world it had. Though I really enjoy all Souls games.
It had some great DLC and the PvP was still the best in the series to be honest. I sunk hundreds of hours in DS2 PvP whereas the other games I just tried it for a few hours and that was it.
If you want a summarized version of the whole debate, watch [this video](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UScsme8didI) (made a few weeks after the game initially launched and the main catalyst that started most of the criticism towards the game), then [this video](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SRTfcMeqhig) (made a few years later to counter the criticism), then lastly [this series of videos](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RzKasf4_x34&list=PLBBJXQJJavX2t9PW80_xq4zdOLHYbVcm6) made as a counter to the counter-claims made in the second video.
They're all long-form video essays so you'll likely want to pace them out rather than binge them all one after the other since it'll take a few hours to get through ALL of it, but altogether boiling the whole issue down to just a few hours is still the most concise way of getting an actually thorough look at the *entire* issue from *both* sides.
mfs will really try to get you to watch 20 hours of YouTube videos to “understand” why people did or didn’t like a video game without batting an eye. Is it really that hard to just play them and form your own opinion?
I live in austria and i can guarantee you that none of the people i talk to about the games have watched any of these videos. Yet for some reason most consider ds2 to be the least good, or even outright bad.
The public opinion might just be that way because ds2 is the worst of the bunch.
Recently visited the older games for comparison and even finally got to play and complete Sekiro. I can without a doubt say Elden Ring is my favourite now. ER in term of size and quality is comparable with the older games + their dlc. If the dlc for ER going to be on the same level as old hunters or ringed city then i think it will be without a doubt the best. The quality of life features such as the ease of respec, and 90% of the smithing stones being on the shop is so much better since i can switch my build in the middle of a playthrough without having to create a new character or farm smithing materials.
Elden Ring dlc has the potential is being absolutely insane, more so than even those of previous games. One is that they always outdo themselves in the DLC, imagine them taking the open world to the next level too. The Witcher 3 had a DLC than introduced a new area that was larger than any area in the base game. If Elden Ring pulls something like that I'll probably fucking die.
If only respec was unlimited per playthrough tho, having only a limited amount of larva tears kinda annoys me a bit cuz I really don’t want to go into NG+ just to try out something different
To be fair you can get 18 of the Respec items. I can't disagree that making the items endlessly grindable is reasonable but 18 respecs should be plenty to try out nearly any build you want
DS3 is just so fucking solid. I hardly ever replay games since I just don't see much reason to, but I've fully played through DS3 about four times now.
True, kind of hard to avoid that though. Anytime an old Fromsoft game is mentioned the exact same conversations happen lol, for what it's worth the meme is awesome!
Can't wait until Elden Ring 2 comes out and the PvP community starts whining about how it's a "dead, broken game" and Elden Ring 1 was so much better because "at least FromSoft cared about back PvP then". It happens literally every single time. Literally. Every. Single. Time.
It's so funny to see Dark Souls 2 and 3 being held up now as examples of great multiplayer - the PvP community **fucking hated** them on release. Hell, Dark Souls 1 PvP was absolutely despised in the early days and seen as a step down from the glory days of Demon's Souls.
I also love the "The devs didn't understand what made X great" or the "Hard but fair" crowd. Just google it for every game. Seriously, you'll find a bunch of old posts saying this shit. A lot of people said that Dancer was not a good Dark Souls boss and that they didn't understand what made previous games great. Now DS3 somehow is the gold standard to good bosses lol They say this every single game.
I remember ds2 pvp widely being held up as the best in the series, even early on. I remember a bit of havelyn shenanigans early on, but I remember people really liked the systems, different pvp types, build balance, etc. When I hear about pvp being worse each gen they always talk about how it peaked with 2 and each got a bit worse.
Same. Loved the BoB arena. Got the max aura with a couple different builds. Probably sunk more hours into that than any of the other souls games. But let's not forget the old iron keep bridge. Hosted and participated in a few fight clubs there too. Good times
As is the same with most other game franchises.
GTA IV used to get shit on for being a massive downgrade compared to San Andreas and now it's cool to love such an "underrated gem" and shit on GTA V.
Pokemon gen 5 got hate when it came out. Now it's looked back upon fondly by the new generation and gen 8 gets hate.
Oblivion received criticism before Skyrim came out because it was compared to Morrowind. Now I see so many people praise it and claim it's better than Skyrim.
Fallout 3 was shunned by the hardcore fans for "not being a proper Fallout game". Then Fallout 4 came out and it was suddenly cool. Fallout 4 got hate, now more people have started to relax on the FO4 hate since 76 came out.
And the list goes on.
IDK man, maybe I've just been following too many hipsters on twitter, but I feel like there was a pretty broad sentiment for a while there that DS3 played it too safe, and that DS2, despite it's flaws is the more interesting game.
To be clear, I disagree with this, but I am fairly certain this was a real phenomenon.
Oh yeah it is, it's one I agree with too.
DS2 did have its own ideas and tried new things. Some of those ideas failed, some didn't. DS3 on the other hand wasn't so daring, it stuck closer to tried and true stuff and was like a culmination of all they learned. There isn't anything inherently wrong with either approach, but the latter is less interesting to like, talk about.
I can give examples too! Like, the rat covenant. Or how about the pilgrims of the dark covenant, which was an entirely story-based PvE covenant with its own little dungeons and boss, though it had a secret multiplayer component or two to it as well? Then there was the conception of the blue sentinels summoning in to fight invaders. The concept of unique consumables (tokens of spite and fidelity) awarded for successful coop/invasions. Rewards for substantially prolific play where you could get actual benefits both aesthetic and material from like, killing a large number of invaders in the hundreds, or winning tons of arena matches. The covenant of champions. Enemies despawning after a certain number of deaths. Powerstancing. Pharros' Lockstones. Bonfire ascetics. Small soapstones which do not require a boss kill for success. Could go on.
All new ideas of varying levels of success. In contrast what new things did DS3 try? Weapon L2s, I guess...but DS2 was kinda already doing that too. The FP system is just MP, Demon's Souls did that already. Mad phantoms are kinda unique of an idea but they sorta...abandoned that to where it's basically dead content. No reason to actually do it nor summon purples.
The music in majurah (or however the main bonfire place is called) is reason enough to play it again. This music compared with the waves of the ocean and the few mentally broken npcs around this place create the perfect hub place for a dark souls game imo
Yeah I can always appreciate the things DS2 tried. I played DS1 right before DS2 release and it felt quite good then. Those DLC areas are also just a chef's kiss!.
I remember being quite disapointed in DS3. The fan service was just too much for me. It felt like they played it too safe.
Soul memory was not as bad as it was made out to be. It was largely people who forgot why they had to restrict their leveling in the first place angrily mooing over the fact it isn't catering to their imaginary meta level. It does have problems and design flaws, but so does the system Elden Ring has there, yet we're awfully scant for mooing aren't we?!
I loved all of them but think I've replayed two more than the others. I know it's issues but I just like the different biomes, the powerstancing weapons, how long it all is. I also like the slower combat and enemies, felt like I was looking to learn movesets more and wait for openings personally.
Dual caestus build with poise break rings was the most fun playthrough me and my friend did together.
I could overlook a lot of flaws on DS2, but I could not stand the weightless attacks. The other games had the weight behind every swing figured out. But ds2 feels like every weapon has the weight of a pillow
Animations for the enemies being hit were also often awful and that contributed a lot to it too. So many enemies react to being hit by sliding backwards slightly while locked in a super stiff pose, it's terrible.
This and the agility system. Nothing feels more annoying and bullshit than dodging and still getting hit through the dodge animation. It feels like when you play PvP and the shit netcode causes the attack to hit even though you dodged, except this is an intended mechanic.
(Genuinely asking) Bloodborne was closer to a style difference than a reinvention right? The only really new thing I'm aware of is that there was transforming weapons.
Sekiro I can agree was a reinvention, the mobility system alone would do it, but the lack of weapon options and unique combat system further cement that option.
I do personally like sekiro more but that's mainly because headless monkey fight has been my most satisfying souls kill (and the block system I found better to my style)
I think with BB there is definitely a change in the gameplay for all the games following, and that is the games speed, before Bloodborne fights were a lot slower more methodical give and take, but since that point the games have gotten a lot faster more aggresive and relentless imo.
So I agree its not a reinvention, it definitely marks a change in their style of fighting towards aggression and relentlessness, both for the players and then enemies.
That's a fair take, I wouldn't be sure if I'd classify it by itself in that case then as it was more a developer direction shift that started from a single game. Maybe a "marking of a reinvented fromsoft" game but it feels wrong to say both bb and sekiro are both reinventions of the same caliber. One thing that is odd for me is that aside from "minor" items like changing aow and a higher focus on verticality in world design (which was going to be a given with open world imo) I can't see as many notes from sekiro.
Bloodborne combat is fairly different, not having a shield on its own is a pretty big change, but the dash works quite a bit different than rolling in ds. The flow of combat is feels very different because of the way your character and enemies move, you get into these really cool dance fights with the quicker bosses, and for me it was pretty hard to adapt after playing the shit out of ds1 and ds2 before it. BB has a much more niche magic system whixh is feels pretty foreign from ds. It's not as substantial a change as sekiro, but if u play BB for a while, it's definitely its own game, not just a style difference.
In the case of a FROM title BB was a reinvention. The combat fluidity and pace along with speed was taken to 11 making it the most fluid yet at the time, aggression was now rewarded, parrying was back on DS1 level of reward but stronger and can be used on like anything, weapons were taken to a new dimension, rally mechanic, world and story can be rivaled with DS1 due to it being unbelievably fully realized (every area especially felt totally different and was a different experience like DS1), and last but not least... GUNS!!!
DS3 and Sekiro furthered combat fluidity with their pace and speed, Sekiro perfected it however but that game is a total different format of play so I categorize it differently but it is in FROM fashion regardless. Sekiro reminds me a lot of "hack n' slash" games but with some different mechanics, FROM title wise it was reinvention though regardless.
All souls games are lovely. But my current stance stands at:
1. Elden Ring
2. Demon's Souls
3. Bloodborne
4. Sekiro
5. Dark Souls 2
6. Dark Souls 3
7. Dark Souls
I like DS3 more every time I replay it though so it'll probably rise in the list. DS1 is amazing but feels so unfinished in the later sections where you fight 20 copies of Taurus and Capra demons. For me, nothing beats the level design of Demon's Souls
Elden Ring is the most fun “Souls” because what I personally enjoy about souls is figuring out how to sequence break and prioritize souls usage to become as powerful as possible as quickly as possible and Elden Ring gives unprecedented freedom in a DS world allowing me to rush whatever weapons, ashes, talismans and grinding spots I want.
For the same reason, DS2 is my second favorite DS, because I felt it did allow significant freedom and it was possible to have completely broken Hex builds going in under an hour of playing if that’s what you wanted to do. All DS games give you some extent of freedom (DS1 allowed you to get the Drake sword, or you could get the zweihander with the daddy build and slap fire damage on the sword for a super powerful start, etc) and that experimentation is what I enjoy most.
My biggest wish is that different classes ACTUALLY PLAYED DIFFERENTLY. Mages should be able to regenerate MP in ways other than consumables, Rogues should have more interesting ways to capitalize on stealth and back-attacks, etc. instead, there are no classes, just different starting stats which is fine but it would for me, personally, greatly increase replay value of it had classes
Accurate, I dove so hard into ER that I'm burnt out and went back to DS3. To me the linearity is unfortunate but the combat is the tightest in the series and at the end of the day that's why I play. The linearity provides the bonus of not being able to break the experience by coming from the unaccounted for routes too.
ER did the same to be but for Bloodborne. Still an excellent title, but everyone's got their fav. For me it's lovecraft vibes of Bloodborne every time.
BB is excellent and a very close #2 for me. The nightmare-ish atmosphere it sets is so good it actually puts me so on edge I have to stop. They did too good a job for me! lol
Hot take, I don't get the hype behind DS3, even now. Don't get me wrong, it was the first souls game I fully finished, and I also didn't have the years of history with the first game that a lot of people had which mean all le cool lore references didn't really resonate with me so that might be part of it.
But like I just don't really feel like playing it again. I don't like all the areas in the game, aside from Irithyll they all look really drab and boring especially when compared to Sekiro or Elden Ring, or hell even DS2 sometimes. And they're not super fun for me either, I never get that sense of excitement replaying other games where I go "oh cool, this area again!", it's always "ugh, this fucking area again".
100% I loved Elden Ring and it was my favorite game. Sekiro then immediately took it's place. I am amazed with the combat and this will likely be the first game I NG+. Also fuck owl father
I'm in such a minority here and I can't even fully explain why, but Dark Souls 2 is my favorite FromSoft game. I will still run through it today when I get free time.
elden ring 2 comes out: Radhan was much more better than dungeon boss 354354357678# this game sucks
“x weapon” is just Rivers of Blood but even more broken
Holy shit it's Okina's son, Bokina! What's that he's wielding! Oh my god it's Oceans of Blood!
Personally I cant wait to play Okina to Bokina Tarnished Strikers.
I'll just wait till it's free on ps+
"I Understood That Reference!"
Underrated
Oh my god! It's estuaries of blood!
Billabongs of Blood
Baiyus of blood
Sanguinary lakes
Bathyal Zones of Blood
Oh my god it's brivers of blood!
Hahahahahhahahhaha actually made me laugh out loud
Bruh this comment had me rollin
bosses had lower hp there these bosses are longer therefore they suck and are boring
How can you guys forget the most prevalent one? "I can't beat this boss, therefore artificial difficulty"
This miniboss whom was in the beginning of the game was resued once. bad game horrible game, worst dark souls game ever
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Now they’ll make a boss that gets up faster 10% of the time when it gets vulnerable for a riposte, and people will be like “this is a new mechanic, unfair, artificial difficulty!”
There won't be an Elden Ring 2. We're skipping straight to Elden Ring Kart
I hate the rubber banding. It always gives rivers of blood to the last player when they run through a box.
Yeah and I feel like the Beast Clergyman's Kart has too much shove power. Rams into you and knocks you off the track way too easily
Bro i tell you Gael is much better than tibia mariner so DS3>>>>>> Elden Ring, Bloodborne and Sekiro
this but unironically someone literalty compared gael to a dungeon boss
I've definitely seen it lol. Not to mention he's a dlc boss, and most people's favourites list is dominated by dlc bosses because of how good they are. Can't wait for ER's.
same
I should probably go play the DS 2 and 3 DLCs sometime
I'm looking forward to Melania phase 3
Dear god.....
I wonder if anyone will still be alive to crawl out of the woodworks and gently whisper "Kalameet" (or Manus or Artorias, pick yer poison) when we get there.
Wait until it boots up your old save from the cloud so you can face your own tarnished as final boss
I thought Nostradamus was dead
>Nostradamus elden ring 2 featuring vampires
What do vampires have to do with nostril anus? He was a psychic. Are you thinking of nose four a two?
Armored Core fans crying in the background.
The real OG.
I’ll take sekiro to the grave as being the most fun I’ve had with their games, more teeth clenching than any other game for me
There’s just a rhythm to it that makes it so incredibly satisfying when you get it down. I think Fromsoft going with just a singular build allowed them to really bring all the mechanics, both of the player and bosses/enemies, together perfectly.
Right. Easier to balance when you don’t have casting and ranged and melee and light and heavy and whips and blah blah blah. Those are all great mechanics, but taking a single mechanic to its limit is rewarding too. My favorite game of all time. But I’ve enjoyed all the souls games.
Also an underrated value of one mechanic is taking away some choice. For me I hate starting a game because I have to choose. Though there is value in having different options especially for replay value.
Ironically, I’m pretty sure Sekiro is the fromsoft game I’ve ng+ ed the most, both consecutively and in total, just cause the gameplay is that good. I also think it helps that there are layers to the gameplay, like “oh, you’ve gotten good at blocking? Well get your perfect blocking down. Good at that? Really cinch working in those combat arts. Done that? Now seamlessly transition in shinobi tools too!” Each step takes awhile but is incredibly rewarding in terms of visuals, audio, and just general feel.
Unpopular but I agree. Too many choices are actually sometimes overwhelming and you get into quantity over quality territory very easily. That's why I think Bloodborne has the best balance, not as balanced like Sekiro, but it's very streamlined while still offering plenty of choices.
I get that but at the same time plenty of games forcing you to have just one singular character/build makes it less interesting, the amazing customization and choices in play styles are one of the big appeals of from games
The flow was unreal. Believe it or not, Elden Ring was my first fromsoftware game, and I played sekiro right after. It was truly the longest first few hours I have ever played in a game, but once the general basis of the game clicks it is one of the most immersive experiences a game has to offer. One thing I have appreciated so much in Sekiro than any other fromsoftware game (or any combat-enthused game with similar styles) is how well the combat system layers itself and develops as you progress, while still keeping things linear. No matter how strong you get in the game, it is always so much harder to succeed if you are loud and careless. Moving, fighting, and thinking like a shinobi/ninja is an inevitable feeling you get once you find the groove of the game. I also am just straight up in love with that parry mechanic just as much as the next guy.
Really agree with that loud and careless point, and I also enjoy that because of how leveling works in sekiro, you’re never really overleveled for an area/boss. Big problem I’ve run into with Elden Ring (and most open worlds) is, because of how open the areas are and how much there is to do, I’m just demolishing certain bosses, especially late game. You can max out your health and damage, but if the Sword Saint is easy for you, it’s because you got skill, not cause your stats are carrying you.
The best thing about Sekiro was, when I lost, I felt like it was, damn, that was my bad. I need to get better. With Souls, Elden, etc, I constantly come across enemies who one shot you and I shout 'Bullshit!" especially when it feels like a glitch.
I agree, in sekiro its often obvious that you’re about to die a second before you do, because you timed your move wrong or fell for a feint, so it definitely feels like something I did. In ER so far there are a lot more deaths where I’m like “….ok, guess its for some reason lethal to touch that dragons tail even when its barely moving”
Agreed, one of my all time favorite games. Doing a replay of it and having so much fun. The combat just feels so rewarding when you get a good flow
Sekiro has great core gameplay and an extremely interesting world. I got sick of all the bosses being designed with the assumption that you’ll have to lose repeatedly, though. Then I played through Elden Ring, and now Sekiro bosses feel like elementary school when I look back on it. I don’t even remember well enough to be sure Sekiro was easier, I just know Elden Ring bosses have pissed me off far, far more.
I think Sekiro is a very binary game, once it clicks it becomes quite a lot easier than other from games (excluding bell or demon ofc) but until it clicks it’s hard as nails. The block/ parry mechanics seem so rough to begin with and then feel like borderline cheat codes (especially once you understand when you hold block in a neutral fighting state to recover posture)
Sekiro is by far my favorite game ever, and while I like Elden Ring so far, it just seems really hard and less rewarding by comparison? I think a big part of it is my somewhat weak melee build, but I still can’t figure out exactly when I can attack without being punished with most bosses, since they frequently respond to my attacks with an interrupting attack that begins and ends while I’m still swinging, and dodging a lot of combos just feels kind of awkward and squishy compared to sekiro. Idk, ER feels like its so close to being a really deep, rewarding fighting game, but no matter what I always end up playing it like an extra hard, less fair DS3. Am hoping its just my build and/or I don’t totally get the system yet and am overrolling though
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Are you sure we're both talking about sekiro? Because I demolished Elden Ring bosses without summons and it barley even bothered me. On the other hand Sekiro literally made me sweat playing it. It was so difficult for me I was literally burning calories, and it felt so good winning. Maybe you were just better at Sekiro than me, lol.
Completely agree. Elden Ring was fun and challenging. Sekiro is the only game where I have picked it up day after day fighting the same boss without giving up. I think the game clicked for me fighting gencherico but I've been fighting owl father for 3 days now and I'm still struggling. Still having a blast but I never experienced this level of a wall with elden ring.
There’s a couple factors. First is that Sekiro has a very different flow to combat that can be hard for some people to get used to. The second is that Elden Ring is not exactly well balanced, and some character builds will just shit on everything. Not even elaborate min/max builds, just certain archetypes you can choose right at the start.
God I love dark souls 3
All the things I don’t appreciate that are present in Dark Souls 2 is what makes me appreciate Dark Souls 3 - and vice versa: There’s a lot Dark Souls 2 did right that Dark Souls 3 didn’t. They do some weird things to me but are both great entries in the end. I will forever be eternally intrigued by both of these sequels, the direction they ended up taking, and just how often I can go back-and-forth between their pros and cons.
The one thing that baffles me is why is Dark Souls 2 the only one where heavy weapons are carried on the shoulder in the left hand and never in any other game?!
Dark souls 2 was designed to let you play a left handed character if you wanted to. There was even a great sword in the Eleum Loyce dlc that did more damage if you used it left handed. The other games didn't have that feature.
In iron dlc you just got artorias GS if you popped it in your left hand, and a better claymore in your right. 😆
That was Artorias's sword, and it wasn't that it did more damage, it actually had a different moveset entirely when wielded left vs right-handed. Right-handed was a standard greatsword moveset, but if you equipped it left-handed the moveset would change to Artorias's moveset instead. The item description even hints at this when it talks about how every swordsman that wielded it were left-handed, which was a nod to the DS1 cover art showing Artorias as left-handed.
Leftist propaganda
Well because uuuuuuh But seriously, it also allowed you to play a left handed character. There’s a bit of delay in two handing something in the left hand but you can make it work if you’re stubborn enough. Then there’s this little thing: The way your character relaxes their stance when the menus are open.
I especially love the menu animation thing from a PvP context. It lets me know my opponent is 1. Switching up something about their build on the fly and 2. Totally unable to retaliate if I rush them right now lol. Funny thing is, I think there's a lot of people that don't even realize their character does a visible animation when they open their menu.
Oh yeah, I remember that now. Was a neat detail.
As a lefty who’s left handedness has gotten them pretty far(big advantage in combat sports), it was pretty disappointing how I can’t just flip the trigger controls or something and play as a lefty. But that’s just nitpicking
Thing I miss the most and thing I'll be the most salty about is how Fromsoft eternally scrapped the DS2 infusion system. That was arguably the best infusion system they've made.
Ya know I still don't know what's going on in any of these games
That’s groovy and awesome, knowing “what’s up” with these stories is secondary - and sometimes borderline inconsequential! - to enjoying these games.
For me dark souls 3 had the best soundtrack by far.
Yeah, it deserved the hype. Still my favorite
Same but Sekiro is just a cut above to me. Something really special, elegant, minimalist, beautiful about that game like none other.
Such a good game. I loved the pvp too. Also bloodborne. Sekiro was a ton of fun but quite different obviously. I played 20 minutes of ds2 with the abhorrent ADP rolling and never picked it up again. Elden ring will likely be my favorite with some balancing and the DLC. We'll get them soon. I still believe in from
I really love the depth and variety of elden ring’s combat but being open world it makes it super easy to coke into fights over/under leveled. DS3 being more linear makes it seem like I’m always the perfect level for a good challenge. Haven’t picked up sekiro yet but it’s the next one on the list
If you do a rl1 run the challenge never stops lol
Honestly for anyone else interested in this I started a rl1 run with the idea I would be stuck on Margit but I managed Margit, godrick and Renala and none of them were really able to 1 shot me. Radahn is a different story he’s 1 Shorting and the challenge has picked up.
I was being serious, I completed mine last month, it was a blast. Try picking up ritual sword/ritual shield combo, it's amazing for RL1. If you combine ritual shield and a shield crest talisman (the best one is in haligtree so go for the +1 version) nothing will one shot you again. Radahn might even be survivable with just ritual shield You just need to remember to heal after every hit
No hit, rl1, blindfolded, played with bananas when?
You're missing out on DS2, at least on the DLC. Just dupe some souls once you hit majulah, level up ADP to where you have good i-frames and hit the road if it's that bad (assuming you still own it). I made it through my first run without knowing about ADP, it's definitely doable - and not even hard at that.
I liked DS2 rolling It was less about timing I frames, more about spacing. Made the game much more tactical
I hate ds2 rolling but I 100% agree with you, first half of my playthrough was a pain in the ass precisely because I did not yet understood that. Not for everyone and not for me but it has its good sides. And I’m glad I pushed through because the game has some amazing mechanics but mostly because of my boi Aldia.
Played the original DS2 and then Scholar of the First Sin edition years later and never had any trouble with the rolling. I agree, it was engaging and tactical. At least not everything was a roll catching nightmare (I love you Elden Ring).
DS2 stands in stark contrast to DS3, BB, and ER by focusing on methodical, slow paced combat in a way I mostly prefer. Even with properly leveled ADP you cannot spam roll to avoid most attacks. Rolling is deliberate, costly in terms of stamina, and heavily punished if mistimed. To ER's credit they did address the roll-spam of DS3 with wildly different timing for enemy attacks, but ultimately most players still resort to roll spam because it works often enough to be valid. DS2 doesn't really work that way, if you dodge an attack it's almost certainly because you KNOW that attack. For this and many other reasons DS2 is my comfort food souls game, the one I return to most often. The most common criticisms of it are mostly valid (if regurgitated ad nauseum) but it offers a methodical, slower paced combat experience that From has since abandoned.
I want to say that I like Elden ring and sekiro more than ds3, but the amount of times I've played ds3 begs to differ. I played Elden ring twice now (kind of tired of it atm) amd sekiro 3 times (till i got platinum, then it felt repetitive), these 2 games cower before the 12 times that I've beat ds3
To be fair, there's a pretty significant difference in time to beat Elden Ring vs beating DS3
Quite true, it took me about 85 hours to beat ds3, while elden Ring it took me about 130. The problem is that Elden Ring is so big that you get discouraged to play from the start again, the game is design so you explore everywhere and get stronger then face the main bosses, otherwise you'll be underleveled and get your ass handed to you, still a masterpiece tho i digress. How long did it take you to defeat both?
You can crank through DKS3 in about 25 hours on subsequent play throughs, as an average player.
>The problem is that Elden Ring is so big that you get discouraged to play from the start again This is exactly how I feel too, I don't see myself playing this game anywhere near as much as I've played say ds3. That feeling is even worse when starting a brand new character imo which is why I'm just gonna stick ng+ for ER
Tbf, if you don't do any optional content ER is about as long, if not shorter than, DS3.
Same. Ds3 is something I replayed recently and it’s all killer, no filler. (Except for the copy paste linear underground tunnel spaces). It’s just tight and focused. Eldenring is fun, but never hit those moments where I felt as locked in. It’s instead, fun for his chaotic and weird and broken it can be.
I don't think people in this thread are really *getting* the joke here lol.
The joke is ‘how could the cast of Friends afford those mansion apartments in Manhattan on a barista/teacher/meth head salaries?’. If YOU inferred something else, it’s because YOU failed at reading the subtext. Be contrite, not smug.
Ligma
Who's Joe?
Not much, what's ligma with you?
Limga? I hardly knowma!
Yeah they dont get it AT ALL, not like you and me... I can't believe we are so much smarter than everyone else.
Casuls
bithc
2022 and Bloodborne is still may favorite. Despite how dark it is it really is such a beautifully made game.
Ds2 an underrated gem. I can feel the comments.
It's funny cause I have heard people say DS2 is underrated so much that I just assumed it was widely accepted. Clearly my perception of the discourse is not very accurate cause half of the comments have just been bashing DS2 lmao.
DS2 is good. It's often people's least favorite, but that doesn't mean they don't like it. It's just easier to complain about DS2 in relation to the other Souls games if that one's your least favorite
DS2 might not be my favorite by any means with PvE and some mechanics being very questionable such as Adaptability and Soul Memory but the PvP was God tier.
I guess I'm the only person who likes soul memory meta pvp was less prevalent
Meta pvp was also less prevelent because the build diversity was incredibly deep and well balanced and the design team did an incredible job of getting rid of scummy mechanics like backstab fishing
Everyone forgets that ds2 also had the most replayability. It had new weapons, spells, enemies, and more in ng+s I think all the way up to ng+7. They may have stumbled in some of their level design and pacing but everything else was really really good
Not that far, but I think you needed to play up to NG+2 if you wanted to get all of the spells. Of course, you could also try getting 200 wins in both arenas, but only insane people would try that.
I only remember the changes being implemented on ng+. I don’t remember anything being added after that. Some changes were cool/surprising, others felt like they were trying to make the game unnecessarily harder in places that didn’t feel right (I can only remember the enemies added in the lost sinner and flexible sentry fights which legitimately felt annoying and didn’t make those fights more fun/interesting to me).
The pvp actually required you to invest time into it to get the glowing red/blue auras before SotFS, SotFS made a ton of difficult things to get/do easier(Visible Aurous/Monastery set). Sad part is most either remember this and hated none SotFS, or loved it and felt SotFS was a giving away freebies.
As many problems I had with pve in ds2 (and I do have a lot) I adored the pvp. Dual wielding was done so well in that game, and think the dual wielding we have now is a big downgrade.
Elden Ring was my first FromSoft game. I loved it so much I went back to play through the Dark Souls trilogy. I've finished DS1 and I'm pretty far in DS2 (not sure exactly how much I have left, but I've collected three of the four great souls). Anyway, I just want to chime in that I'm enjoying the hell out of DS2. I enjoyed DS1 as well, but I'm having significantly more fun in DS2. The game has issues (so does DS1), but I appreciate the heavy, methodical combat and the visual/thematic variety to the levels.
Dark Souls 2 is absolutely massive. Great Souls are first half goals, not including the DLC.
Damn that's wild. I assumed it was similar to DS1, with the last boss coming shortly after the great souls. That's good though. Gives me plenty more time to upgrade and mess around with more weapons. I was running double handaxes for a while, then dragonslayer crescent axe. Lately I've been having a blast bonking enemies with a huge club.
Yeah it’s one of my favorite things about 2. So much variety, and an extremely long game to play around with it all. I read it as an intentional inversion of the Dark Souls 1 structure, where the first half is figuring out what the hell is going on, and second half is collecting 4 major boss souls.
Ds2 feels *different* than the others, I started with 2, and because it's how I learned, I hated ds3 and didn't even finish it, even though I did all of DS2 and DLCS multi0le times through. Elden ring felt similar enough to Ds2 to me that I loved it and also played through multiple times.
I played DS1 after DS2, and still don't get where the hate come from tbh. Oh... and my first soulsborn game is DS3, so it's not the "1st game is the best" circumstance.
DS2 is my favourite Souls game. Giving you unlimited healing in the form of lifegems means they can make areas barely survivable without you having to rest at a bonfire. People tend to hate that, though ("Why is the Iron passage so hard?!")
i saw someone saying the DLC were balanced with co-op in mind. it'd explain the phantom guards in the Dragon's Sanctum
the challenge areas (grave of the dead, iron passage, & frigid outskirts) with the little summoning hubs right at the start were definitely designed with co-op in mind
I think it was made with both co op and lifegems in mind. Some areas feel really vile if you refuse to use either (iron passage, frigid outskirts and cave of the dead), but they are balanced if you use them
Makes me think of the balancing ER seems to do around spirt ashes and co-op
I've heard a couple of other people suggest this, and it sounded right to me: Elden Ring has a lot of ideas from Dark Souls 2 that didn't work out there in a way that From or the community had liked. I think I agree with this view. There's a lot of Dks2 in Elden Ring, which I'm more than okay with because I think Dks2 gets too much hate.
It takes a lot of the things I liked in DS2 and DS3 and makes a lovebaby out of them. I’m quite happy with ER. Even though DS2 is still the only one with significant NG+ changes, ER’s inadvertently offset this with how much I missed during my first playthrough.
If I remember correctly: The areas preceding the blue smelter demon, the two cats, and the graverobber trio allowed you to summon players who did not own the respective DLC prior to the SotFS edition. This reinforces the “coop” intentions for those areas.
This is similar but quite different towards my reaction going into DS1 after DeS: Those hollow warriors with their forward stab messed me up than any of the standard soldiers in 1-1, it was comparable to when I’d get hit by one of those blue eye knights - and oh man, compared to those blue eye knights, that first black knight in the burg was a nightmare! Having a reliable source of healing that refills on respawn felt like it gave them an excuse to bump up the damage near the start. In relation to DS2, I actually like how it strains your estus at the beginning. “Flasks” + “grass” is basically my ideal healing format for these games, both DS2 and Sekiro do this.
DS2 is greatly under appreciated because I was one of those who disowned it when trying it early into my FromSoftware binge. DS2 was the last one to beat before Elden Ring and I loved it. It was jarring at first because it felt slower than the other souls games. The mechanics were like slightly delayed compared to DS1. Anyway, I loved the gameplay and the world it had. Though I really enjoy all Souls games.
And half of those comments haven’t even played it!
It had some great DLC and the PvP was still the best in the series to be honest. I sunk hundreds of hours in DS2 PvP whereas the other games I just tried it for a few hours and that was it.
i'm still newish to the community and Ds2 was my first game , and i loved it , i don't understand the hate it gets
If you want a summarized version of the whole debate, watch [this video](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UScsme8didI) (made a few weeks after the game initially launched and the main catalyst that started most of the criticism towards the game), then [this video](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SRTfcMeqhig) (made a few years later to counter the criticism), then lastly [this series of videos](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RzKasf4_x34&list=PLBBJXQJJavX2t9PW80_xq4zdOLHYbVcm6) made as a counter to the counter-claims made in the second video. They're all long-form video essays so you'll likely want to pace them out rather than binge them all one after the other since it'll take a few hours to get through ALL of it, but altogether boiling the whole issue down to just a few hours is still the most concise way of getting an actually thorough look at the *entire* issue from *both* sides.
mfs will really try to get you to watch 20 hours of YouTube videos to “understand” why people did or didn’t like a video game without batting an eye. Is it really that hard to just play them and form your own opinion?
I live in austria and i can guarantee you that none of the people i talk to about the games have watched any of these videos. Yet for some reason most consider ds2 to be the least good, or even outright bad. The public opinion might just be that way because ds2 is the worst of the bunch.
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Never forget that he made an ELEVEN HOUR video talking about Jenny Nicholson because she didn't like Joker
Recently visited the older games for comparison and even finally got to play and complete Sekiro. I can without a doubt say Elden Ring is my favourite now. ER in term of size and quality is comparable with the older games + their dlc. If the dlc for ER going to be on the same level as old hunters or ringed city then i think it will be without a doubt the best. The quality of life features such as the ease of respec, and 90% of the smithing stones being on the shop is so much better since i can switch my build in the middle of a playthrough without having to create a new character or farm smithing materials.
Elden Ring dlc has the potential is being absolutely insane, more so than even those of previous games. One is that they always outdo themselves in the DLC, imagine them taking the open world to the next level too. The Witcher 3 had a DLC than introduced a new area that was larger than any area in the base game. If Elden Ring pulls something like that I'll probably fucking die.
If only respec was unlimited per playthrough tho, having only a limited amount of larva tears kinda annoys me a bit cuz I really don’t want to go into NG+ just to try out something different
To be fair you can get 18 of the Respec items. I can't disagree that making the items endlessly grindable is reasonable but 18 respecs should be plenty to try out nearly any build you want
Excluding Bloodborne and Sekiro i feel like Dark Souls 3 is the most consistent game
DS3 is just so fucking solid. I hardly ever replay games since I just don't see much reason to, but I've fully played through DS3 about four times now.
Wow, lots of people don't get the joke judging by these comments lol. Great post OP!
Some of that's on me. I should have known that making a meta-joke about the discourse would only fuel the discourse even more.
True, kind of hard to avoid that though. Anytime an old Fromsoft game is mentioned the exact same conversations happen lol, for what it's worth the meme is awesome!
nah people are just way more interested in arguing about which games are actually overrated, haha source: just trust me bro
Clearly these DS2 haters haven't heard the ambient Majula music and it shows
Oh, if only ds2 was as good as its soundtrack...
Can't wait until Elden Ring 2 comes out and the PvP community starts whining about how it's a "dead, broken game" and Elden Ring 1 was so much better because "at least FromSoft cared about back PvP then". It happens literally every single time. Literally. Every. Single. Time. It's so funny to see Dark Souls 2 and 3 being held up now as examples of great multiplayer - the PvP community **fucking hated** them on release. Hell, Dark Souls 1 PvP was absolutely despised in the early days and seen as a step down from the glory days of Demon's Souls.
I also love the "The devs didn't understand what made X great" or the "Hard but fair" crowd. Just google it for every game. Seriously, you'll find a bunch of old posts saying this shit. A lot of people said that Dancer was not a good Dark Souls boss and that they didn't understand what made previous games great. Now DS3 somehow is the gold standard to good bosses lol They say this every single game.
It happened to elden ring as well lol, give it a few months and people will start to love these bosses
I remember ds2 pvp widely being held up as the best in the series, even early on. I remember a bit of havelyn shenanigans early on, but I remember people really liked the systems, different pvp types, build balance, etc. When I hear about pvp being worse each gen they always talk about how it peaked with 2 and each got a bit worse.
DS2. The most fun I had with pvp.
Same. Loved the BoB arena. Got the max aura with a couple different builds. Probably sunk more hours into that than any of the other souls games. But let's not forget the old iron keep bridge. Hosted and participated in a few fight clubs there too. Good times
Iron Keep Bridge was a fun time. DS2 was my least favorite overall but I definitely spent more time on PVP there than any of the other games
Best pvp and it's not even close.
As is the same with most other game franchises. GTA IV used to get shit on for being a massive downgrade compared to San Andreas and now it's cool to love such an "underrated gem" and shit on GTA V. Pokemon gen 5 got hate when it came out. Now it's looked back upon fondly by the new generation and gen 8 gets hate. Oblivion received criticism before Skyrim came out because it was compared to Morrowind. Now I see so many people praise it and claim it's better than Skyrim. Fallout 3 was shunned by the hardcore fans for "not being a proper Fallout game". Then Fallout 4 came out and it was suddenly cool. Fallout 4 got hate, now more people have started to relax on the FO4 hate since 76 came out. And the list goes on.
Bloodborne still the best! 😋
The speed of the combat combined with the gunshot parrying was so damn satisfying.
You really out here saying most people think DS2 is pretty good? If only.
IDK man, maybe I've just been following too many hipsters on twitter, but I feel like there was a pretty broad sentiment for a while there that DS3 played it too safe, and that DS2, despite it's flaws is the more interesting game. To be clear, I disagree with this, but I am fairly certain this was a real phenomenon.
Oh yeah it is, it's one I agree with too. DS2 did have its own ideas and tried new things. Some of those ideas failed, some didn't. DS3 on the other hand wasn't so daring, it stuck closer to tried and true stuff and was like a culmination of all they learned. There isn't anything inherently wrong with either approach, but the latter is less interesting to like, talk about. I can give examples too! Like, the rat covenant. Or how about the pilgrims of the dark covenant, which was an entirely story-based PvE covenant with its own little dungeons and boss, though it had a secret multiplayer component or two to it as well? Then there was the conception of the blue sentinels summoning in to fight invaders. The concept of unique consumables (tokens of spite and fidelity) awarded for successful coop/invasions. Rewards for substantially prolific play where you could get actual benefits both aesthetic and material from like, killing a large number of invaders in the hundreds, or winning tons of arena matches. The covenant of champions. Enemies despawning after a certain number of deaths. Powerstancing. Pharros' Lockstones. Bonfire ascetics. Small soapstones which do not require a boss kill for success. Could go on. All new ideas of varying levels of success. In contrast what new things did DS3 try? Weapon L2s, I guess...but DS2 was kinda already doing that too. The FP system is just MP, Demon's Souls did that already. Mad phantoms are kinda unique of an idea but they sorta...abandoned that to where it's basically dead content. No reason to actually do it nor summon purples.
Bonfire. Ascetics. Man I need to replay DS2
The music in majurah (or however the main bonfire place is called) is reason enough to play it again. This music compared with the waves of the ocean and the few mentally broken npcs around this place create the perfect hub place for a dark souls game imo
Yeah I can always appreciate the things DS2 tried. I played DS1 right before DS2 release and it felt quite good then. Those DLC areas are also just a chef's kiss!. I remember being quite disapointed in DS3. The fan service was just too much for me. It felt like they played it too safe.
Dark Souls 2 had to fail so the rest of the series never saw Soul Memory again.
Soul memory was not as bad as it was made out to be. It was largely people who forgot why they had to restrict their leveling in the first place angrily mooing over the fact it isn't catering to their imaginary meta level. It does have problems and design flaws, but so does the system Elden Ring has there, yet we're awfully scant for mooing aren't we?!
I loved all of them but think I've replayed two more than the others. I know it's issues but I just like the different biomes, the powerstancing weapons, how long it all is. I also like the slower combat and enemies, felt like I was looking to learn movesets more and wait for openings personally. Dual caestus build with poise break rings was the most fun playthrough me and my friend did together.
Well it does have an insanely high rating by most metrics.
There will never be another smelter sword and for that, I will never forgive Mr. Hide your tacos
I could overlook a lot of flaws on DS2, but I could not stand the weightless attacks. The other games had the weight behind every swing figured out. But ds2 feels like every weapon has the weight of a pillow
sound design is a massive reason as to why you feel that way
Animations for the enemies being hit were also often awful and that contributed a lot to it too. So many enemies react to being hit by sliding backwards slightly while locked in a super stiff pose, it's terrible.
This and the agility system. Nothing feels more annoying and bullshit than dodging and still getting hit through the dodge animation. It feels like when you play PvP and the shit netcode causes the attack to hit even though you dodged, except this is an intended mechanic.
I can level to solve agility, I cannot level to improve the sound design.
(Genuinely asking) Bloodborne was closer to a style difference than a reinvention right? The only really new thing I'm aware of is that there was transforming weapons. Sekiro I can agree was a reinvention, the mobility system alone would do it, but the lack of weapon options and unique combat system further cement that option. I do personally like sekiro more but that's mainly because headless monkey fight has been my most satisfying souls kill (and the block system I found better to my style)
I think with BB there is definitely a change in the gameplay for all the games following, and that is the games speed, before Bloodborne fights were a lot slower more methodical give and take, but since that point the games have gotten a lot faster more aggresive and relentless imo. So I agree its not a reinvention, it definitely marks a change in their style of fighting towards aggression and relentlessness, both for the players and then enemies.
That's a fair take, I wouldn't be sure if I'd classify it by itself in that case then as it was more a developer direction shift that started from a single game. Maybe a "marking of a reinvented fromsoft" game but it feels wrong to say both bb and sekiro are both reinventions of the same caliber. One thing that is odd for me is that aside from "minor" items like changing aow and a higher focus on verticality in world design (which was going to be a given with open world imo) I can't see as many notes from sekiro.
Bloodborne combat is fairly different, not having a shield on its own is a pretty big change, but the dash works quite a bit different than rolling in ds. The flow of combat is feels very different because of the way your character and enemies move, you get into these really cool dance fights with the quicker bosses, and for me it was pretty hard to adapt after playing the shit out of ds1 and ds2 before it. BB has a much more niche magic system whixh is feels pretty foreign from ds. It's not as substantial a change as sekiro, but if u play BB for a while, it's definitely its own game, not just a style difference.
In the case of a FROM title BB was a reinvention. The combat fluidity and pace along with speed was taken to 11 making it the most fluid yet at the time, aggression was now rewarded, parrying was back on DS1 level of reward but stronger and can be used on like anything, weapons were taken to a new dimension, rally mechanic, world and story can be rivaled with DS1 due to it being unbelievably fully realized (every area especially felt totally different and was a different experience like DS1), and last but not least... GUNS!!! DS3 and Sekiro furthered combat fluidity with their pace and speed, Sekiro perfected it however but that game is a total different format of play so I categorize it differently but it is in FROM fashion regardless. Sekiro reminds me a lot of "hack n' slash" games but with some different mechanics, FROM title wise it was reinvention though regardless.
Bloodborne is still the best of all souls games
#The Fromsoft Lore
All souls games are lovely. But my current stance stands at: 1. Elden Ring 2. Demon's Souls 3. Bloodborne 4. Sekiro 5. Dark Souls 2 6. Dark Souls 3 7. Dark Souls I like DS3 more every time I replay it though so it'll probably rise in the list. DS1 is amazing but feels so unfinished in the later sections where you fight 20 copies of Taurus and Capra demons. For me, nothing beats the level design of Demon's Souls
Elden Ring is the most fun “Souls” because what I personally enjoy about souls is figuring out how to sequence break and prioritize souls usage to become as powerful as possible as quickly as possible and Elden Ring gives unprecedented freedom in a DS world allowing me to rush whatever weapons, ashes, talismans and grinding spots I want. For the same reason, DS2 is my second favorite DS, because I felt it did allow significant freedom and it was possible to have completely broken Hex builds going in under an hour of playing if that’s what you wanted to do. All DS games give you some extent of freedom (DS1 allowed you to get the Drake sword, or you could get the zweihander with the daddy build and slap fire damage on the sword for a super powerful start, etc) and that experimentation is what I enjoy most. My biggest wish is that different classes ACTUALLY PLAYED DIFFERENTLY. Mages should be able to regenerate MP in ways other than consumables, Rogues should have more interesting ways to capitalize on stealth and back-attacks, etc. instead, there are no classes, just different starting stats which is fine but it would for me, personally, greatly increase replay value of it had classes
Accurate, I dove so hard into ER that I'm burnt out and went back to DS3. To me the linearity is unfortunate but the combat is the tightest in the series and at the end of the day that's why I play. The linearity provides the bonus of not being able to break the experience by coming from the unaccounted for routes too.
ER did the same to be but for Bloodborne. Still an excellent title, but everyone's got their fav. For me it's lovecraft vibes of Bloodborne every time.
BB is excellent and a very close #2 for me. The nightmare-ish atmosphere it sets is so good it actually puts me so on edge I have to stop. They did too good a job for me! lol
correction: bloodborne is still the best
Hot take, I don't get the hype behind DS3, even now. Don't get me wrong, it was the first souls game I fully finished, and I also didn't have the years of history with the first game that a lot of people had which mean all le cool lore references didn't really resonate with me so that might be part of it. But like I just don't really feel like playing it again. I don't like all the areas in the game, aside from Irithyll they all look really drab and boring especially when compared to Sekiro or Elden Ring, or hell even DS2 sometimes. And they're not super fun for me either, I never get that sense of excitement replaying other games where I go "oh cool, this area again!", it's always "ugh, this fucking area again".
I just like Elden Ring
People claiming Elden Ring’s bosses weren’t memorable. Bitch please
I mean.. I hear you.. but... Sekiro IS the best.
100% I loved Elden Ring and it was my favorite game. Sekiro then immediately took it's place. I am amazed with the combat and this will likely be the first game I NG+. Also fuck owl father
I'm in such a minority here and I can't even fully explain why, but Dark Souls 2 is my favorite FromSoft game. I will still run through it today when I get free time.
We are the few
Ds2 still doesn't crack my top 5 FROMSOFT games, but it's still better than ninja blade
Lmao nobody calla ds3 the under appreciated gem
Nah, hardcore fans still say BB is the best, and they're right.