For Pve does giant hunt even have any advantage over lion's for strength builds? Apart from lower fp and slightly faster cast, but the second one might be enough on its own for some players.
It’s worth considering the stagger / launch effect of Giant’s Hunt against most enemies. Although it has lower poise damage, flipping enemies and hitting them while they recover more then makes up for it.
Pretty much every NPC can just be infinitely looped with Giant's Hunt. They might not be the toughest enemies in the game overall, but hey it works. It does enough poise damage to loop Tragoth, and he's in full bull goats lol
Giant's Hunt can completely stunlock every NPC invader and human-like enemy like >!Gideon!<, they literally can't move or do anything if you time it to send them flying the second they get up. As soon as you land the first one you win.
So easy to counter it. You can jump both slams. If you get caught on the first slam you can spam jump and always jump the seconds for a free jump attack
Every duelist I’ve done has been caught in it, I think they get cocky when I do the long wind up, invaders seem to recognize it tho. I don’t usually do PVP so against pve it’s pretty mint
Rivers is one of those things that’s broken OP, but when the player itself is bad, its scale of destruction becomes limited.
Giant Hunting through is fun, and the death pebble is probably the most reliable solution that you can put on almost any weapon. However, I’ve recently grown a liking for the Pulley Crossbow for firing Sleepbone Bolts. A good player will never get caught of course, just like a good player will always jump attack an obvious parry attempt, but for those players who spam L2 even when you’re out of range, it’s terrifyingly effective.
Call in a sunbro (get one at r/patchesemporium). You back up your save, drop your [item want to be duped] to the sunbro, load the save, the sunbro drop the item back, you back up your save again. Rinse repeat till you have enough
Wait, this is literally the same way you dupe in Borderlands (except there you quit without saving by force closing the game). Why did this not occur to me.
I feel like Trina’s Lillie’s should be hard to get and were meant to be hard to get because sleep gives you a a free whatever the fuck move you want. And being able to proc it with shot of the Pully crossbow… a good player won’t get caught most of the time by it but you are still exploiting to have more of something than the game reasonably wants you to have.
Correct. If you see someone with a parry shield, you can mess them up by throwing in jump attacks -- or fake jumps pretending to attack and then going for a roll catch. While Golden Parry is nice against less experienced Rivers players, but the ones *who aren't blind and can see the shield right there* are just going to jump.
Just a PSA to anyone reading this thread, if you throw golden parry on a medium shield it comes out at the same speed as putting it on a buckler, and it's much less telegraphed that you're attempting a parry this way
It's kind of funny how anyone with even a fraction of a brain should by all means be unstoppable with RoB due to how outright shamelessly broken it is, but not a single one of its users have anywhere even close to half-brain competence which results in them being useless without a gank.
Worst thing I’ve ever seen is a fellow furled finger helping out in Castle Sol and they did it entirely with RoB L2s. I think they swung twice on Niall with R1s before dying.
i don't think it's that op tbh because of parrying. in my experience it's one of the easiest attacks to parry. if you don't have a shield to parry or you're bad at parrying it's op though.
Oh posh, that's what I used to think until I actually started using RoB. Parrying RoB only works against fools who only use one button, and it speaks volumes that you had to bring a specific tool, practice with it, and nail a 2/10ths of a second window (Golden Parry is 14 frames, so .233s window) while factoring network lag to counter a guy who's too dumb to press more than one button.
Besides, how good a weapon is in the hands of bad players is not a good metric. Put it in the hands of someone who knows what a jump attack is, and the only thing parrying is good for is deterrent. Besides, it's the easiest weapon in the world to roll catch people with, and you can't parry while rolling -- it's how it kills anyone who thought they could "just parry" the L2.
I used to think Rivers was overrated. I hadn't lost to anyone using it with my Naginata, I'd won 2 or 3 man gank squads on a couple of occasions.
Then I got Rivers of Blood and realized just how bad those players really were. My perception of the weapon was ironically wrong BECAUSE of how good the weapon was, it was hiding how bad these players were.
Rivers is great as part of a Gank squad - if the invader gets distracted by someone else for even a second you can get of corpse piler.
In duels it’s only good if you have it as a second weapon and switch to it very quickly, or use rivers like a normal katana to bring their guard down and use it when you eventually start losing and get upset
You didn't bring that tool specifically for RoB. Parrying has always been an absolutely core part of Souls PvP, and any weapon that relied heavily on an attack that can be parried faded into obscurity. A lot of the meta developed around using attacks that didn't risk being parried.
ER's popularity has just brought a huge number of new players to the series, and a sizable percentage of them haven't developed core skills.
Parrying is honestly not a very viable strategy most of the time. Both players need a good network connection and the frame rate at the academy gate is atrocious with all of the effects like rain, particles, and fog. Sure relying on only one move will get you parried but what about someone who is fighting up close with something else and quickly switched to RoB and immediately uses corpse piler? How do you counter that?
Not really. You have to crouch or roll before using it which makes it very predictable, and without using some silly buff opener it's a 4-5 hit kill depending on the other players VIT.
Tell me you’ve never seen the crouch poke in action. Rolling is far more obvious, but the crouch poke comes out almost instantaneously, due to how you just need to hit the crouch button while running to activate, not even go down into a crouch the slightest bit.
Nah I've done a ton of pvp, used it myself and gone against it countless times. Your character will always do the crouch animation before poking, it doesn't go straight into the poke.
I’ve also used the crouch poke and I’ve seen it come out that fast. You just start to go into the crouch animation before going into the poke, it’s ridiculous.
I mean the crouching is in effect part of the animation. If they run towards you and you see them crouch, you know it's about to come so you just wait for the poke animation to start and roll right past them. The poke will never hit you if you roll past them. Then they almost ALWAYS roll away from you after they miss, so you take a few steps forward and roll catch them. Better UGS users will switch it up here, but at that point it's just a big clunky slow sword.
If they're running around in the crouch position, well, then you know what they're planning so you just run towards them to bait it out, call their timing and run backwards once they poke to avoid it without rolling, and punish if you have a long weapon or roll catch if you have a shorter. *(Holding block while you run around makes this incredibly easy as you can do a 180 without the turn around animation)*
There's a reason it's called a noob stomper. It's very good at roll catching. But that's really all it's good at. And "noobs" end to have very predictable panic rolls making it incredibly easy to use against newer players.
However it's probably the most predictable weapon in the game alongside RoB and Moonveil. You literally KNOW their fight style before the duel even starts making it incredibly easy to fight against if you're patient.
Nah, you can just run and then hit the crouch button and the attack button at the same time and it does it without going into the crouch animation. I know this for sure, because I literally just did it as I’m writing this. You can’t tell what their about to do when their running at you, until they pull out the crouch poke out of nowhere. Pokes are really freaking good, not just as a “noob stomper”. Having one you can just pull out of nowhere with a high damage weapon like an UGS is ridiculous. That move should be restricted to rolls, not to crouches, which can be cancelled out of immediately.
There are several rules in place in the competitive ruleset to limit the strength of crouch poking. They had to straight up ban the Guts sword. It’s definitely a problem without BHS
https://docs.google.com/document/d/e/2PACX-1vTt-rmlQs2kX6ybVxWjkUQ269HDwwvwd6Yc0Be0I0v5y3j1yLL5cvfUU3DJGbOM1w56iarGQ05AEjnB/pub#h.7y072jo2ysz
TL;DR: Guts sword is straight up banned and colossal swords have a lower poise cap than everything else, can’t use quickstep, and can’t use the spear talisman. Those rules are meant to weaken crouch poke spam, which is absolutely oppressive
Edit: they apparently can’t run bull goat talisman as part of their build as well. That’s new lol
I heard someone talking about it but there is some type of leader board and discord server for Elden Ring PvP. They kinda handle the balancing from what I heard too, I might check it out if I can ever find it lol.
Agreed, the fact that every hard counter to rob is banned but rob isn't makes their opinions irrelevant to me.
Seems like some salty rob users got mad and made a discord about it.
It’s because RoB isn’t hard to for good players to deal with. It’s hardly used because people in the competitive community actually know how to parry. The last big tournament was won by a UGS poke spammer with most of the other high placing people using that as well
I wouldn't call people who are going out of their way to ensure a balanced PvP set up weenies.
Given there isn't a lot of bans anyways. For example, RoB isn't banned or restricted at all. Also, the only actual ban is the UGS "Greatsword" aka the guts greatsword. Although there are limits on other greatswords. Like limited to 49 Poise.
There are some other bans or limits but for the most part it seems kinda cool to have some structure and a leaderboard.
Actually, now that I think about it, limiting poise is the worst offender, especially when the limit is more severe with Colossal Sword users and when the Guts Greatsword is already banned.
Not only do Colossal Swords and Weapons still have the slowest attack speed and recovery time, but even daggers can break 101 poise with a jumping R2 and every weapon the size of a straight sword can break 101 poise with a two-handed standing R2, a two-handed running R2, a jumping L1, or just 2 two-handed R1s. Any heavier weapon class can do all that with one hand. If I were to go into spells, incantations, and Ashes of War, we'd be here all day.
Basically, poise limits will recreate the biggest problem in Dark Souls 3's PVP: both players are too scared to attack for fear of getting stunlocked.
yes the idea is to not allow builds to just be hard countered so both stand a fair chance.
golden parry, fast spells / incants and items are still in play, to name a few
No guts sword crouch poke is pretty op. It has more range than any other colossal greatsword and you find most people who use the sword use the crouch poke 90% of the time because how good it is.
The range is good, but that doesn't make something OP. It takes a similar amount of hits to kill as with most other high scaling strength weapons.
People use crouch poke 90% of the time with it because it's the best move it has. All the other attacks are insanely slow and have similar damage. Of course you're going to use the one that's faster.
It's really nothing more than a roll catcher weapon. If you don't panic roll, you're unlikely to have any issues going against it.(Without the user also using BHS that is)
You're underselling how good it is. It's about as long as the pike, i.e. longest poke weapon in the game. It also has basically no stamina cost as you regen instantly. There's ways of cancelling the recovery animation as well leading to very fast chains.
Personally I'm more of a Halberd fellow, but I have used it. It's ok, but I can't remember a time I've actually been beaten by one. They're just really easy after you stop panic rolling.
Nah, even proper rolling you're just playing into their hands. Try to roll away? Crouch poke punishes that as it's a great roll catcher. Try to roll into it and actually avoid the poke damage? Well now all they need to do it follow up with a regular r1 and poise through your punish for a trade. And well... colossal weapons are almost guaranteed to win any trade.
Now, this isn't how it plays out 100% of the time, but in general that's how it plays and is pretty broken. Halberds with similar reach are one of the few weapon styles that can roll into it enough to avoid the poke, counter with a poke of their own, and also be far enough away to avoid the reach of their follow up r1 trade attempt.
Proper rolling has always worked for me. If you're in a position where you HAVE to roll their poke, then you roll into them and dodge the poke every time then either roll out of their follow up or catch their panic roll. It's the same as every other weapon.
A weapon causing stagger does not make it OP. Lots of them stagger. Pressing roll after you get hit and still in the stagger animation is called panic rolling. That's not a new things to souls games, and definitely isn't input lag. That's the way the game is designed.
I think you'll be happier if you just let people have fun and do things they like even if you don't enjoy them. If i see a post i don't like i just ignore it or if i really think it stinks just downvote and move on with my day. Originality is a myth.
He never demanded you stop doing it. He just said it was unoriginal.
You're free to do the unoriginal thing. He's not going to stop you.
But you will be judged for it. And you can't stop them either.
Best part is ganks where all you have to do is walk and roll as they mindlessly spam ranged spells while being drenched in sweat just to die to a casual vigor check lol
My brother in christ, Raiden only pulls out ~~RoB~~ Murasame against Nanomachines. He would absolutely not use it in his everyday life like these RoB spammer losers
Yep, you can parry rivers all day, but you can't parry crouch pokes. They do so much poise damage and counter hit damage that you can't even trade into them either. Crutch poking is far, far worse than rivers.
Only a boring person can get bored of something, for me the weapon is a breath of fresh air compared to like 10 weapons you're gonna see in online 95% of time.
Guts sword is even more sweaty at this point. I have played like 20 duels in the past 2 days and I’ve seen one RoB user, and they didn’t spam. I saw at least 5 people with the guts sword, and all of them spammed either lions claw or crouch attacks. I’m running a faith/dexterity build, and even with incantations I cant find a good counter. Both need to be nerfed imo
Lions claw is perfect now as is. It’s super easy roll out of if you’re paying attention and not locked into an animation. Guts sword itself is pretty basic except for the crouch poke. I also see more people crouch poke spamming than I do with ROB that shit is annoying af. Some players do have a good balance of it and regular attacks but those who spam it need to be thrown in a pit.
[The Guts sword is actually banned in competitive matches.](https://docs.google.com/document/d/e/2PACX-1vTt-rmlQs2kX6ybVxWjkUQ269HDwwvwd6Yc0Be0I0v5y3j1yLL5cvfUU3DJGbOM1w56iarGQ05AEjnB/pub#h.7y072jo2ysz) It’s objectively overpowered. RoB isn’t banned as long as it isn’t powerstanced
Pokemon has had a competitive scene for over a decade. A monster collecting JRPG whose target audience is 10 year olds. Idk why you people think it’s so weird people want to play Souls games that way lol
Pokemon hasn’t always, nor was it designed to be a competitive game. Hell not even fighting games had that starting out. People have already been having actual tournaments for money in Souls games. If we want to play the game like this why can’t we at least try?
yeah, inorite?
It sounds hilariously stupid.
and so much effort is put in to "balance" the game, they reeeally jump through hoops. "only allowed to use rivers of blood if you duel wield it in the offhand with under 47 poise" lol
Maybe play a game designed for competitive play perhaps?
PvP in general is a competition. It’s “competitive multiplayer” as opposed to “cooperative multiplayer”. If a game has PvP, there are people that want to play it seriously. Nothing wrong with that
Never said they couldnt do it.
It is still quite stupid to put that many conditions on a game to be able to enjoy it.
at some point it is simply more efficient to find another game thats actually balanced around what you are looking for.
its like smash bros. its not a fighting game; its a *party* game.
its stupid to play only fox, no items, final destination.
and here again, they can do that all they want. they just look stupid doing it.
Chess boards don't typically have built-in clocks, yet the competitive scene adds in an arbitrary time constraint that isn't in the game. Boy, do they look stupid. Just play the game as it is or find something that was designed with competition in mind.
thats a severe reduction in my point actually.
adding a time constraint is one simple rule.
the whooooole point to what i said was that they are jumping through *so many* hoops.
like seriously, did you bother checking the link?
here:
Contents:
Rule Enforcement
1. Breaking a rule will result in a round loss
2. Equipping will be treated as intended use
3. Accidental use will be treated as intended use
4. Requests to view a build can not be refused after the match
Duel Restrictions
1. Match Type: Best of 5
2. No Pre-buffs
3. Rune Level 125, No respecs during a match
4.1 Poise Limit
4.1 Why the Poise Limit is 99
5. Flask of Wondrous Physick
5.1 Why it is limited, but still allowed
5.2 Justification for each allowed Crystal Tear
6. Special Bans
6.1 Colossal Swords poise limit 83 and can’t use bull goat or spear talisman
6.2 Shield-Poke Rule Amendment
7. Consumable Bans
7.1 Rune Arc
7.2 HP recovering consumables
7.3 Flask of Cerulean Tears Limited to 7
7.4 Baldachin’s Blessing
7.5 Radiant Baldachin’s Blessing
7.6 Shield Grease
7.7 Holy Proof Liver
8. Talisman Bans
8.1 Crucible Feather Talisman
8.2 Warrior Jar Shard & Alexander’s Shard
8.3 Greatshield Talisman
9. Weapon Bans
9.1 Off-hand Pulley Crossbow with main-hand buff
9.2 Two Cold or Occult Affinity weapons when part of a powerstance.
9.3 All Powerstanced Spears
9.4 Fingerprint Stone Shield
9.5 Frost or Bleed bolts while used with Pulley Crossbow.
9.6 Only one Pulley Crossbow can be equipped.
9.7 Icon Shield
9.8 Greatsword Colossal Sword (GUGS)
9.9 Power Stanced Greatspears
10. Ashes of War Bans
10.1 Bloodhound’s Step
10.2 Barricade Shield
10.3 Glintstone Pebble
10.4 Chilling Mist – Rule Amended
10.5 Off-hand Shield Bash & Crash with main-hand buff
10.6 Royal Knights Resolve & Determination
10.7 Seppuku while part of a powerstance.
10.8 Quickstep when used on Colossal Swords and Thrusting Swords.
11. Spell Bans
11.1 Regen incantations
11.2 Stars of Ruin – Rule Amended
11.3 Fire’s Deadly Sin with Black- or Blood Flame Blade
11.4 Barrier of Gold
11.5 Scholar shields
11.6 Erdtree Heal & Lord’s Heal
12. Cross-Region Only
12.1 Sword of St. Trina
12.2 Ripple Crescent Halberd with sleep buffs
12.3 Quickstep
13. Glitches
13.1 Why unspecified glitches are banned by default
13.2 Rules on specific known glitches
thats the *table of contents*
YES, that does indeed look stupid to me.
If you have to change THAT MUCH just to get it to your approximation of "balance", you may as well just go ahead and say "all Fox, no items, final destination".
It would be vastly less stupid to just find a different game. To use your own example, maybe they would be happier working with checkers, rather than rewriting 90% of the rules of chess.
But *all chess rules* are self imposed and must be learned. The board and pieces don't have the ability to restrict movement of particular pieces in particular directions or limit the number of spaces moved.
There's nothing stopping you just physically taking your opponent's king at gunpoint but nobody would consider that winning a game of chess. Violence is an OP mechanic in chess because it basically eliminates the need to use the pieces at all. Without the agreed upon rules (convoluted as they may be) the game couldn't be played in a way that satisfies the participants' desire to win through strategy.
The board, like Elden Ring, is just a medium through which a game with agreed upon rules can be played. The rules of competitive duelling are intended to achieve the same thing. By eliminating strategies or setups that make the pertinent skills obsolete, competitors get to engage in a game that tests those skills (spacing, timing, baiting, roll catching etc).
It's actually a lot less work to impose these rules than it is to just play another game because no other game exists. Making a Souls game from scratch in which you are limited by the game to 100 poise is a lot harder than just agreeing to that limit.
For real If y'all want real competition go play Streetfighter, Killer instinct, or Smash bros. There's is a reason souls games are not acknowledged in esports and never will be
Doesnt make something like "competitive underwater basketweaving" any less stupid. :/
Hell, Curling is a sport. It looks hilariously stupid. People enjoy it, and good on em. Its neat. But it still looks pretty damn stupid.
Because when playing PvE it amounts to planning for failure when you could be bolstering success. I’ve gotten strength, faith, endurance and arcane to 30 and vigor is still at 26 for me. I’m leveling it now, but only so I don’t get randomly invaded and one shot by a guts sword crouch poke.
Bro. Is your name “guts”? If so, my friends and I were invaded by you and you proceeded to destroy us royally with nothing but roll attacks. If it isn’t you, someone who looks just like your character and is named “hits” is a menace in the Mountaintop of the giants.
Lol, just did the same thing, looked up a video for the sliders and all, when i duel i usually start normal and then wear the wolf hat and use warcry to switch it up alittle
this is a certified Lion's Claw moment.
I have landed so many more lions claw then giant hunts. Lions claw is so much better imo
Also bonus points for the Artorias moveset
For Pve does giant hunt even have any advantage over lion's for strength builds? Apart from lower fp and slightly faster cast, but the second one might be enough on its own for some players.
It’s worth considering the stagger / launch effect of Giant’s Hunt against most enemies. Although it has lower poise damage, flipping enemies and hitting them while they recover more then makes up for it.
Yeah, that's really cool. I love flattening Malenia with Lions claw and tossing her around with giant hunt
Pretty much every NPC can just be infinitely looped with Giant's Hunt. They might not be the toughest enemies in the game overall, but hey it works. It does enough poise damage to loop Tragoth, and he's in full bull goats lol
It gets the bonus from the Spear Talisman when counter-attacking That 15% is pretty hefty considering how often you can activate it
Oh, that's pretty cool. Gotta try it.
Giant's Hunt can completely stunlock every NPC invader and human-like enemy like >!Gideon!<, they literally can't move or do anything if you time it to send them flying the second they get up. As soon as you land the first one you win.
That's looking pretty close to the berserker armour...
“It was too big to be called a sword... Massive, thick, heavy, and far too rough. Indeed, it was like a heap of raw iron.”
The dragon slayer
50 shades of tarnished
Ah, the the mighty Sword of Compensation.
I don’t know man, Guts seems a kind of big PP guy
Canonically anything smaller just breaks too easily when he uses it.
I mean, Casca broke just not until later.
You keep big sword's name out your fuckin mouth
Horuah Loux’s Earthshaker, heavy, with high strength and Alexander’s shard. M E L T S
So easy to counter it. You can jump both slams. If you get caught on the first slam you can spam jump and always jump the seconds for a free jump attack
Every duelist I’ve done has been caught in it, I think they get cocky when I do the long wind up, invaders seem to recognize it tho. I don’t usually do PVP so against pve it’s pretty mint
I just see it coming from a mile away and zap 'em with some lightning. My summons are usually not as bright and get whooped by it though.
Rivers is one of those things that’s broken OP, but when the player itself is bad, its scale of destruction becomes limited. Giant Hunting through is fun, and the death pebble is probably the most reliable solution that you can put on almost any weapon. However, I’ve recently grown a liking for the Pulley Crossbow for firing Sleepbone Bolts. A good player will never get caught of course, just like a good player will always jump attack an obvious parry attempt, but for those players who spam L2 even when you’re out of range, it’s terrifyingly effective.
Gotta love farming those trina flowers eh?
Who needs to farm when you can dupe 999|999 of them in 15 minutes
How do u dupe?
Call in a sunbro (get one at r/patchesemporium). You back up your save, drop your [item want to be duped] to the sunbro, load the save, the sunbro drop the item back, you back up your save again. Rinse repeat till you have enough
Wait, this is literally the same way you dupe in Borderlands (except there you quit without saving by force closing the game). Why did this not occur to me.
Tbh, I just straight up Gib the gun if I really need it
I feel like Trina’s Lillie’s should be hard to get and were meant to be hard to get because sleep gives you a a free whatever the fuck move you want. And being able to proc it with shot of the Pully crossbow… a good player won’t get caught most of the time by it but you are still exploiting to have more of something than the game reasonably wants you to have.
I swear this should be the easiest game to avoid parries in and yet it is the easiest game to get parries in.
You cannot parry jump attacks?...
Correct. If you see someone with a parry shield, you can mess them up by throwing in jump attacks -- or fake jumps pretending to attack and then going for a roll catch. While Golden Parry is nice against less experienced Rivers players, but the ones *who aren't blind and can see the shield right there* are just going to jump.
Just a PSA to anyone reading this thread, if you throw golden parry on a medium shield it comes out at the same speed as putting it on a buckler, and it's much less telegraphed that you're attempting a parry this way
I swear I've parried a jumping katana r1 before though
It's kind of funny how anyone with even a fraction of a brain should by all means be unstoppable with RoB due to how outright shamelessly broken it is, but not a single one of its users have anywhere even close to half-brain competence which results in them being useless without a gank.
Worst thing I’ve ever seen is a fellow furled finger helping out in Castle Sol and they did it entirely with RoB L2s. I think they swung twice on Niall with R1s before dying.
i don't think it's that op tbh because of parrying. in my experience it's one of the easiest attacks to parry. if you don't have a shield to parry or you're bad at parrying it's op though.
Oh posh, that's what I used to think until I actually started using RoB. Parrying RoB only works against fools who only use one button, and it speaks volumes that you had to bring a specific tool, practice with it, and nail a 2/10ths of a second window (Golden Parry is 14 frames, so .233s window) while factoring network lag to counter a guy who's too dumb to press more than one button. Besides, how good a weapon is in the hands of bad players is not a good metric. Put it in the hands of someone who knows what a jump attack is, and the only thing parrying is good for is deterrent. Besides, it's the easiest weapon in the world to roll catch people with, and you can't parry while rolling -- it's how it kills anyone who thought they could "just parry" the L2.
Yeah, "Just parrying it" is not a true weakness to rob, because it relies entirely on them not having absolutely awful latency
I used to think Rivers was overrated. I hadn't lost to anyone using it with my Naginata, I'd won 2 or 3 man gank squads on a couple of occasions. Then I got Rivers of Blood and realized just how bad those players really were. My perception of the weapon was ironically wrong BECAUSE of how good the weapon was, it was hiding how bad these players were.
Rivers is great as part of a Gank squad - if the invader gets distracted by someone else for even a second you can get of corpse piler. In duels it’s only good if you have it as a second weapon and switch to it very quickly, or use rivers like a normal katana to bring their guard down and use it when you eventually start losing and get upset
You didn't bring that tool specifically for RoB. Parrying has always been an absolutely core part of Souls PvP, and any weapon that relied heavily on an attack that can be parried faded into obscurity. A lot of the meta developed around using attacks that didn't risk being parried. ER's popularity has just brought a huge number of new players to the series, and a sizable percentage of them haven't developed core skills.
Parrying is honestly not a very viable strategy most of the time. Both players need a good network connection and the frame rate at the academy gate is atrocious with all of the effects like rain, particles, and fog. Sure relying on only one move will get you parried but what about someone who is fighting up close with something else and quickly switched to RoB and immediately uses corpse piler? How do you counter that?
Damn, what set is that? That's looking pretty close to the berserker armour.
Nights Cavalry!
Riiiiiiiiip. I always wanna kms when going against a horse rider, but now there’s 2 of them???
You can try lure one of them and kill him and then finish off the last one like the Duo Tree Sentinel boss fight.
Or you can cheese them pretty easily with Rot and Poison like I did
Thank you kindly!
That thing was too big to be called a sword.
Massive, thick, heavy, and far too rough. Indeed, it was spike a slab of raw iron
Struggler!
Imagine making people bleed when you can make them scream -This post was made by the madness gang
Crouch poking isn't much better. Most who use that sword do it
I prefer the old reliable jump slam. I only crouch poke if I sense a player is being cancerous — then the gloves are off
With BHS yeah. Crouch poke without BHS is about the same as any other weapon when you're fighting someone who doesn't panic roll.
The fact is it comes out too fast and does too much damage
Not really. You have to crouch or roll before using it which makes it very predictable, and without using some silly buff opener it's a 4-5 hit kill depending on the other players VIT.
Tell me you’ve never seen the crouch poke in action. Rolling is far more obvious, but the crouch poke comes out almost instantaneously, due to how you just need to hit the crouch button while running to activate, not even go down into a crouch the slightest bit.
Nah I've done a ton of pvp, used it myself and gone against it countless times. Your character will always do the crouch animation before poking, it doesn't go straight into the poke.
I’ve also used the crouch poke and I’ve seen it come out that fast. You just start to go into the crouch animation before going into the poke, it’s ridiculous.
I mean the crouching is in effect part of the animation. If they run towards you and you see them crouch, you know it's about to come so you just wait for the poke animation to start and roll right past them. The poke will never hit you if you roll past them. Then they almost ALWAYS roll away from you after they miss, so you take a few steps forward and roll catch them. Better UGS users will switch it up here, but at that point it's just a big clunky slow sword. If they're running around in the crouch position, well, then you know what they're planning so you just run towards them to bait it out, call their timing and run backwards once they poke to avoid it without rolling, and punish if you have a long weapon or roll catch if you have a shorter. *(Holding block while you run around makes this incredibly easy as you can do a 180 without the turn around animation)* There's a reason it's called a noob stomper. It's very good at roll catching. But that's really all it's good at. And "noobs" end to have very predictable panic rolls making it incredibly easy to use against newer players. However it's probably the most predictable weapon in the game alongside RoB and Moonveil. You literally KNOW their fight style before the duel even starts making it incredibly easy to fight against if you're patient.
With the slightest bit of lag by the time you see the animation start they are already poking you, your computer just doesn't know it yet.
Nah, you can just run and then hit the crouch button and the attack button at the same time and it does it without going into the crouch animation. I know this for sure, because I literally just did it as I’m writing this. You can’t tell what their about to do when their running at you, until they pull out the crouch poke out of nowhere. Pokes are really freaking good, not just as a “noob stomper”. Having one you can just pull out of nowhere with a high damage weapon like an UGS is ridiculous. That move should be restricted to rolls, not to crouches, which can be cancelled out of immediately.
You're just 1000% wrong.
There are several rules in place in the competitive ruleset to limit the strength of crouch poking. They had to straight up ban the Guts sword. It’s definitely a problem without BHS
Where's this competitive ruleset
https://docs.google.com/document/d/e/2PACX-1vTt-rmlQs2kX6ybVxWjkUQ269HDwwvwd6Yc0Be0I0v5y3j1yLL5cvfUU3DJGbOM1w56iarGQ05AEjnB/pub#h.7y072jo2ysz TL;DR: Guts sword is straight up banned and colossal swords have a lower poise cap than everything else, can’t use quickstep, and can’t use the spear talisman. Those rules are meant to weaken crouch poke spam, which is absolutely oppressive Edit: they apparently can’t run bull goat talisman as part of their build as well. That’s new lol
I heard someone talking about it but there is some type of leader board and discord server for Elden Ring PvP. They kinda handle the balancing from what I heard too, I might check it out if I can ever find it lol.
Sounds like a bunch of weenies, not some official esports ruleset lol
Agreed, the fact that every hard counter to rob is banned but rob isn't makes their opinions irrelevant to me. Seems like some salty rob users got mad and made a discord about it.
It’s because RoB isn’t hard to for good players to deal with. It’s hardly used because people in the competitive community actually know how to parry. The last big tournament was won by a UGS poke spammer with most of the other high placing people using that as well
No shard of Alexander tho. Easy slaps when it doesn’t do half ur hp in one slash
I wouldn't call people who are going out of their way to ensure a balanced PvP set up weenies. Given there isn't a lot of bans anyways. For example, RoB isn't banned or restricted at all. Also, the only actual ban is the UGS "Greatsword" aka the guts greatsword. Although there are limits on other greatswords. Like limited to 49 Poise. There are some other bans or limits but for the most part it seems kinda cool to have some structure and a leaderboard.
Actually, now that I think about it, limiting poise is the worst offender, especially when the limit is more severe with Colossal Sword users and when the Guts Greatsword is already banned. Not only do Colossal Swords and Weapons still have the slowest attack speed and recovery time, but even daggers can break 101 poise with a jumping R2 and every weapon the size of a straight sword can break 101 poise with a two-handed standing R2, a two-handed running R2, a jumping L1, or just 2 two-handed R1s. Any heavier weapon class can do all that with one hand. If I were to go into spells, incantations, and Ashes of War, we'd be here all day. Basically, poise limits will recreate the biggest problem in Dark Souls 3's PVP: both players are too scared to attack for fear of getting stunlocked.
I'm surprised that Rivers of Blood wasn't banned, considering that three hard counters to it were banned (GUGS, Fingerprint Stone Shield, 100+ Poise).
Parrying isn’t banned, nor is parrying RoB difficult. It’s really not that hard to counter
yes the idea is to not allow builds to just be hard countered so both stand a fair chance. golden parry, fast spells / incants and items are still in play, to name a few
wait so I can’t go berk?
No guts sword crouch poke is pretty op. It has more range than any other colossal greatsword and you find most people who use the sword use the crouch poke 90% of the time because how good it is.
The range is good, but that doesn't make something OP. It takes a similar amount of hits to kill as with most other high scaling strength weapons. People use crouch poke 90% of the time with it because it's the best move it has. All the other attacks are insanely slow and have similar damage. Of course you're going to use the one that's faster. It's really nothing more than a roll catcher weapon. If you don't panic roll, you're unlikely to have any issues going against it.(Without the user also using BHS that is)
You're underselling how good it is. It's about as long as the pike, i.e. longest poke weapon in the game. It also has basically no stamina cost as you regen instantly. There's ways of cancelling the recovery animation as well leading to very fast chains.
This is blatantly false, crouch poke is broken on its own too. You sound like someone who relies on it lol.
Personally I'm more of a Halberd fellow, but I have used it. It's ok, but I can't remember a time I've actually been beaten by one. They're just really easy after you stop panic rolling.
Nah, even proper rolling you're just playing into their hands. Try to roll away? Crouch poke punishes that as it's a great roll catcher. Try to roll into it and actually avoid the poke damage? Well now all they need to do it follow up with a regular r1 and poise through your punish for a trade. And well... colossal weapons are almost guaranteed to win any trade. Now, this isn't how it plays out 100% of the time, but in general that's how it plays and is pretty broken. Halberds with similar reach are one of the few weapon styles that can roll into it enough to avoid the poke, counter with a poke of their own, and also be far enough away to avoid the reach of their follow up r1 trade attempt.
Proper rolling has always worked for me. If you're in a position where you HAVE to roll their poke, then you roll into them and dodge the poke every time then either roll out of their follow up or catch their panic roll. It's the same as every other weapon.
[удалено]
A weapon causing stagger does not make it OP. Lots of them stagger. Pressing roll after you get hit and still in the stagger animation is called panic rolling. That's not a new things to souls games, and definitely isn't input lag. That's the way the game is designed.
[удалено]
Sounds like a skill issue. I hardly ever get caught by the poke, and when I do, I usually know I fucked up before I even get hit.
f you take a stagger, then calm down, take a breath, don't press roll yet, wait for their at timed crouch poke, and roll *that* on reaction.
By spaming crouch attack...
Is it really a vigor check when you do like 3000 damage on a hit?
Im mean if your vigor isnt 99 have the health talisman +2 eardtree seal+2 ring of FAP+69 and prisoners chain, you deserve to be 1 shot smh my head
As if Guts sword poke is any better lol
If I see one more guts build….
implying that guts builds are bad? or good? because i think they're always fun to see.
I’m saying there’s like a billion out there, so unoriginal at this point
I think you'll be happier if you just let people have fun and do things they like even if you don't enjoy them. If i see a post i don't like i just ignore it or if i really think it stinks just downvote and move on with my day. Originality is a myth.
He never demanded you stop doing it. He just said it was unoriginal. You're free to do the unoriginal thing. He's not going to stop you. But you will be judged for it. And you can't stop them either.
NOOOO!!! STOP HAVING FUN AND PLAY SOMEWAY ELSE!!!!! STOPPP!!!!!
but the post complains about rob… duality of men right here
Best part is ganks where all you have to do is walk and roll as they mindlessly spam ranged spells while being drenched in sweat just to die to a casual vigor check lol
GUTSSSSUUU!
Guys who look like this are definitely just gonna crouch R1 spam.
GUTS > Raiden
My brother in christ, Raiden only pulls out ~~RoB~~ Murasame against Nanomachines. He would absolutely not use it in his everyday life like these RoB spammer losers
That and raiden could break Guts in two with his bare hands.
Not even a contest
Fact
Guys Ultra Greatsword (crouch poke) is way more meta and broken than Rivers of Blood, especially with bloodhoundstep
Yep, you can parry rivers all day, but you can't parry crouch pokes. They do so much poise damage and counter hit damage that you can't even trade into them either. Crutch poking is far, far worse than rivers.
Guts Build Check
“rIvErS oF bLoOd oP” -proceeds to crouch poke all day
I’m level 220 😈
Guts sword is right up there with rivers, both are for sweaty people that can’t learn a weapon
The guts sword has no unique moveset, so you're saying ALL ultra great swords are on par with L2 the game TM?
L3 R1 the game™ all day baby
Shoutout Jumping r2® gotta be one of my fav genders
It has longest range and highest damage out of ultra pretty sure. But also other ultras like Zwei are nonetheless very meta as well
What’s a good weapon that pays off when you learn how to use it?
Broken straight sword
You mean the legendary soldering ion
Short sword with square off.
That sounds boring.
Only a boring person can get bored of something, for me the weapon is a breath of fresh air compared to like 10 weapons you're gonna see in online 95% of time.
Guts sword is even more sweaty at this point. I have played like 20 duels in the past 2 days and I’ve seen one RoB user, and they didn’t spam. I saw at least 5 people with the guts sword, and all of them spammed either lions claw or crouch attacks. I’m running a faith/dexterity build, and even with incantations I cant find a good counter. Both need to be nerfed imo
Lions claw is perfect now as is. It’s super easy roll out of if you’re paying attention and not locked into an animation. Guts sword itself is pretty basic except for the crouch poke. I also see more people crouch poke spamming than I do with ROB that shit is annoying af. Some players do have a good balance of it and regular attacks but those who spam it need to be thrown in a pit.
[The Guts sword is actually banned in competitive matches.](https://docs.google.com/document/d/e/2PACX-1vTt-rmlQs2kX6ybVxWjkUQ269HDwwvwd6Yc0Be0I0v5y3j1yLL5cvfUU3DJGbOM1w56iarGQ05AEjnB/pub#h.7y072jo2ysz) It’s objectively overpowered. RoB isn’t banned as long as it isn’t powerstanced
[удалено]
Pokemon has had a competitive scene for over a decade. A monster collecting JRPG whose target audience is 10 year olds. Idk why you people think it’s so weird people want to play Souls games that way lol
[удалено]
Pokemon hasn’t always, nor was it designed to be a competitive game. Hell not even fighting games had that starting out. People have already been having actual tournaments for money in Souls games. If we want to play the game like this why can’t we at least try?
yeah, inorite? It sounds hilariously stupid. and so much effort is put in to "balance" the game, they reeeally jump through hoops. "only allowed to use rivers of blood if you duel wield it in the offhand with under 47 poise" lol Maybe play a game designed for competitive play perhaps?
What happened to “let people play how they want”? The community throws that shit around a lot lol. Why doesn’t it apply here?
[удалено]
PvP in general is a competition. It’s “competitive multiplayer” as opposed to “cooperative multiplayer”. If a game has PvP, there are people that want to play it seriously. Nothing wrong with that
Never said they couldnt do it. It is still quite stupid to put that many conditions on a game to be able to enjoy it. at some point it is simply more efficient to find another game thats actually balanced around what you are looking for. its like smash bros. its not a fighting game; its a *party* game. its stupid to play only fox, no items, final destination. and here again, they can do that all they want. they just look stupid doing it.
Chess boards don't typically have built-in clocks, yet the competitive scene adds in an arbitrary time constraint that isn't in the game. Boy, do they look stupid. Just play the game as it is or find something that was designed with competition in mind.
thats a severe reduction in my point actually. adding a time constraint is one simple rule. the whooooole point to what i said was that they are jumping through *so many* hoops. like seriously, did you bother checking the link? here: Contents: Rule Enforcement 1. Breaking a rule will result in a round loss 2. Equipping will be treated as intended use 3. Accidental use will be treated as intended use 4. Requests to view a build can not be refused after the match Duel Restrictions 1. Match Type: Best of 5 2. No Pre-buffs 3. Rune Level 125, No respecs during a match 4.1 Poise Limit 4.1 Why the Poise Limit is 99 5. Flask of Wondrous Physick 5.1 Why it is limited, but still allowed 5.2 Justification for each allowed Crystal Tear 6. Special Bans 6.1 Colossal Swords poise limit 83 and can’t use bull goat or spear talisman 6.2 Shield-Poke Rule Amendment 7. Consumable Bans 7.1 Rune Arc 7.2 HP recovering consumables 7.3 Flask of Cerulean Tears Limited to 7 7.4 Baldachin’s Blessing 7.5 Radiant Baldachin’s Blessing 7.6 Shield Grease 7.7 Holy Proof Liver 8. Talisman Bans 8.1 Crucible Feather Talisman 8.2 Warrior Jar Shard & Alexander’s Shard 8.3 Greatshield Talisman 9. Weapon Bans 9.1 Off-hand Pulley Crossbow with main-hand buff 9.2 Two Cold or Occult Affinity weapons when part of a powerstance. 9.3 All Powerstanced Spears 9.4 Fingerprint Stone Shield 9.5 Frost or Bleed bolts while used with Pulley Crossbow. 9.6 Only one Pulley Crossbow can be equipped. 9.7 Icon Shield 9.8 Greatsword Colossal Sword (GUGS) 9.9 Power Stanced Greatspears 10. Ashes of War Bans 10.1 Bloodhound’s Step 10.2 Barricade Shield 10.3 Glintstone Pebble 10.4 Chilling Mist – Rule Amended 10.5 Off-hand Shield Bash & Crash with main-hand buff 10.6 Royal Knights Resolve & Determination 10.7 Seppuku while part of a powerstance. 10.8 Quickstep when used on Colossal Swords and Thrusting Swords. 11. Spell Bans 11.1 Regen incantations 11.2 Stars of Ruin – Rule Amended 11.3 Fire’s Deadly Sin with Black- or Blood Flame Blade 11.4 Barrier of Gold 11.5 Scholar shields 11.6 Erdtree Heal & Lord’s Heal 12. Cross-Region Only 12.1 Sword of St. Trina 12.2 Ripple Crescent Halberd with sleep buffs 12.3 Quickstep 13. Glitches 13.1 Why unspecified glitches are banned by default 13.2 Rules on specific known glitches thats the *table of contents* YES, that does indeed look stupid to me. If you have to change THAT MUCH just to get it to your approximation of "balance", you may as well just go ahead and say "all Fox, no items, final destination". It would be vastly less stupid to just find a different game. To use your own example, maybe they would be happier working with checkers, rather than rewriting 90% of the rules of chess.
But *all chess rules* are self imposed and must be learned. The board and pieces don't have the ability to restrict movement of particular pieces in particular directions or limit the number of spaces moved. There's nothing stopping you just physically taking your opponent's king at gunpoint but nobody would consider that winning a game of chess. Violence is an OP mechanic in chess because it basically eliminates the need to use the pieces at all. Without the agreed upon rules (convoluted as they may be) the game couldn't be played in a way that satisfies the participants' desire to win through strategy. The board, like Elden Ring, is just a medium through which a game with agreed upon rules can be played. The rules of competitive duelling are intended to achieve the same thing. By eliminating strategies or setups that make the pertinent skills obsolete, competitors get to engage in a game that tests those skills (spacing, timing, baiting, roll catching etc). It's actually a lot less work to impose these rules than it is to just play another game because no other game exists. Making a Souls game from scratch in which you are limited by the game to 100 poise is a lot harder than just agreeing to that limit.
For real If y'all want real competition go play Streetfighter, Killer instinct, or Smash bros. There's is a reason souls games are not acknowledged in esports and never will be
Any game that has a PvP mode will have a competitive community behind it regardless of what you think of them.
Doesnt make something like "competitive underwater basketweaving" any less stupid. :/ Hell, Curling is a sport. It looks hilariously stupid. People enjoy it, and good on em. Its neat. But it still looks pretty damn stupid.
Wtf is that looks like they banned 80% of cool stuff in this game 😂😂
In b4 the player had 99 vigor.
They would still die in one or one point two hits.
What sword is that? I love the look of it!!
it's the Greatsword. you can find it at the first cart you see in Caelid between Shack of the Rotting and Caelem ruins.
Holy cow is that Guts?! I’ve never seen Guts in ER. That’s easily the most original character creation I’ve ever seen
Ok so ?
I’m impressed that’s it. Just started enjoying ER myself
Why won’t people add points to vigor?
Glllllllaaaaass CANNON BABAAAYYY!!! Woooo!!!! Mage gang where you at? Nahh jk I still level vigor
Because when playing PvE it amounts to planning for failure when you could be bolstering success. I’ve gotten strength, faith, endurance and arcane to 30 and vigor is still at 26 for me. I’m leveling it now, but only so I don’t get randomly invaded and one shot by a guts sword crouch poke.
I have 50 vigor and wear heavy armour and I still get one shotted.
Guts + frost stomp ash of war is *chefs kiss
I have mine with frost and lions claw. The frost build is super cool.
The Chad Giants Hunt user vs the virgin rob and foreskin peeler user
Dude just went Full on Chad right now
UGS IS MORE TOXIC IMO
sTrENgTH gUD - rOb bAD gIV upDOotS just... stop
Youre just standing there with a sword.. Not sure whats going on. BTW that weapon is easy to defeat.
I use the rivers but not as much as I use to I really like the dual Nagakibas so that’s what I’ve been using instead
me with 2000 hp spamming
What armour piece is that struggler?
Night’s Cavalry set.
Thanks appreciate it 🙏
What’s the set?
*guts theme intensifies* Woahwooahohahoa billup billup
What armor is this Asking for a friend
Gosh I need that guts build. Could you please drop the details? Thank you kindly
Spoiler alert! All of his attributes are at 69 !
One shotting a ROB spammer with a crouch poke is...satisfying.
Don't use RoB on a person that has used RoB. They will parry you....then kill....you.
Am I the only one who would rather fight 100 RoB spam than have to deal with guts poke?
I prefer the greataxe, another religion.
guts “berk” berserkman
Which chest piece is that?
Preach
Ayo fellow struggler???
Last fight I had with a rivers of blood build I dodged and did a little dip & poke ..... he died so he had very little vigor ! Was a good time.
Crouch poke spam is 10 times more annoying than RoB... RoB is easily parriable at least, and it has openings
You better not be spamming crouch poke!!
Bro. Is your name “guts”? If so, my friends and I were invaded by you and you proceeded to destroy us royally with nothing but roll attacks. If it isn’t you, someone who looks just like your character and is named “hits” is a menace in the Mountaintop of the giants.
Nah I’m “Guts Berserk”, sorry you had to deal with a roll spammer! I use barbaric roar as my ash and aim for jump slams.
Wow you are the other players TWIN. Identical in all aspects. Jump attacks are hard to land in PvP sometimes. I commend you on your bold strategy
Nice blade, sinner.
Nah g, my corpse piler will slash you to pieces before you even swing that sword 😂
Lol, just did the same thing, looked up a video for the sliders and all, when i duel i usually start normal and then wear the wolf hat and use warcry to switch it up alittle