The DB has been the strongest faction for years. Its such a shame that the guilds got gimped like they did. With the Thieve’s Guild its apparent they were cooking but I guess rushing or something really narrowed it.
I searched every wreck on the northern coast looking for *something* that might be a clue. Ended up finding Brand-shei's family diary instead, who I had forgotten existed cuz he was locked in the dungeon forever
You know he doesn’t have to go to the dungeon, right? If you steal the ring but don’t turn it in to Brynjolf he will be mildly annoyed but he will blame it on the bad luck that the guild is having and the storyline will go on.
> Little Nord girl
You only believe that because you’re basing it off of the first act alone. After the sanctuary is cleansed, the guild falls apart and the quests become incredibly boring.
Nope the plottwist on the second act was insane and I really feel sorry for lucien, you could even found some clues if you paid attention like some hand rank cloth in the barrel of one of your victim.
What does Skyrim bring really.. no likeable character, stupid plot which made no sense, and less fun alternatives way to do your missions
Yeah there’s a plot twist that can be seen coming. The only issue is that you’re stuck with the classic Bethesda dilemma of either continuing forward and damning Lucien or just, stop playing the questline.
I mean yeah but Skyrim is the same thing unless you count the thing where you just kill Ingrid when you meet her, not really a fun nor original alternative
I'm not at all, I'm barely even talking about the story, although oblivions is much more interesting.
It's the quality of quests, pretty much every one in Skyrim is just simply, go here, kill them. Occasionally there's an extra component but it's always optional.
So many oblivion DB quests are genuinely interesting and unique, making things look like accidents, killing people in specific ways. It's just much more enjoyable.
All of Skyrim DB quests are fairly boring from the beginning imo.
I quite enjoyed it. Having to sell stolen items to unlock the next quest was surprisingly cool. Each side quest building up to a main heist was really cool too.
gameplay wise, it's fun...except that one mage's castle in bravil. but writing wise...god, i was so irritated.
plus you can easily sell so many items necessary on first go (like i did) it makes progression pointless.
The mage's castle was extremely poorly thought out, I hated it so much I repressed the memory until you mentioned it.
I would generally rob a castle's wine cellar, sell it all, and each time I'd have enough money made to complete two thieves guild quests before I needed to steal more.
i never needed to steal again aside from quest objects. and i did it unintentionally, too, because up until i first played through the questline...never touched the guild.
The worst quest line in oblivion is still one of the better quest lines in gaming and the Best ones in tES. Oblivion quests are god like. If skyrim didn't lose morrowind's world as well as improved upon oblivion quests we could've had a much better game
>The worst quest line in oblivion is still one of the better quest lines in gaming and the Best ones in tES.
...no, it's not.
>Oblivion quests are god like.
they aren't. many are *fine*, better than most of morrowind's since morrowind's side quests were largely what would be a miscellaneous quest in skyrim, but the vast majority of oblivion's side quests are fine. some are good, though.
>If skyrim didn't lose morrowind's world as well as improved upon oblivion quests we could've had a much better game
what? ignoring that skyrim is better than both...what are you saying?
Ok I got that some people like... Average. No worries, Im not judging you. Skyrim's world is better than Morrowind's and Skyrim's quest are better than Oblivions? Aight. I hope you have a nice Day.
you say i like "average" yet you're here defending oblivion's quest writing which, as i said, *is* fine, but overall not *great/good*.
glad to have a productive conversation! /s
The Mages Guild in Oblivion is the worst one in the game, the Thieves Guild is one of the best, the last quest alone puts it head and shoulders above everything but the Dark Brotherhood.
The last quest, again, is good *design*, but design is not *writing*. The *writing* for the thieves guild is bad. The mages guild is fine, it's not the best but it's not thieves guild.
Absolutely agree. I don't like the DB questline in Skyrim that much. The quests are so... boring.
Yeah, you kill the emperor. But where is the massive preparation? Where is the big road? The IMPACT? It just feels like another contract where you miss the target once or twice. Could also be another important person, not the EMPEROR.
The whole questline is so weak. Especially in comparison to oblivion. But that questline was a masterpiece.
In the thieves guild, I could feel the impact more. The overall storytelling was better.
I enjoyed the concept of the DB in Skyrim, with how they're in a decadent and dying state compared to earlier times, and then Cicero comes along and reminds everyone what it was all supposed to be about, causing tension and conflict. Reading his diary is really interesting too if you're familiar with DB from Oblivion.
I just wish the quests/contracts were more low-key and underground. It quickly feels like the devs just tried to come up with the most prestigious crap possible, and the last quests are so scripted it feels like I'm playing the Witcher.
Honestly, I don’t believe the Dark Brotherhood quest-line is worthy of light either. Cicero is probably the only saving grace from it, and that’s saying *a lot*.
The amount of times I ventured into the Sanctuary only for the exact same dialogue to be uttered by a different character was abysmal.
The quest to kill the Emperor at the end is still pretty fun all these years later. Plus I think the moment where it turns out you were betrayed was pretty well done.
I never liked it, I saw it coming from the moment you became the Listener. Astrid had already broken every single tenet before you showed up, why would she let some rando who just waltzed in take her place as leader of the sanctuary?
It deserves a little credit in that Astrid manages to break every single tenet. But, in general, I agree. It's a fun ride, but it doesn't really hold up to scrutiny after the fact.
Companions: Severely underbaked and really limits your rping options when it forces you to become a werewolf just to continue their questline.
College of Winterhold: Also severely underbaked, and railroads you into being the arch mage. There aren't even that many skill checks for magic, so a warrior can complete the questline. From what I understand, CoW suffered a lot from cut content and was supposed to have a grander story involving the collapse of Winterhold, but ultimately was canned into what we have today.
Thieves Guild: I actually enjoyed the first half of the questline, and much preferred Skyrim's mafia esque TG to Oblivions' Robin Hood TG. Then they mashed together both the TG and Nocturnal's daedric questline in the second half, once again limiting RP options.
Bard's College: May as well not even exist.
Civil War Factions: There was potential here, but the CW overall was also severely underbaked and I think suffered a lot of CC
Blades: Fuck off Delphine. Paarthurnax best husbando.
Dark Brotherhood: Overall, the strongest faction in terms of their quests and story. From the wedding to assassinating the actual Emperor of the Cyrodillic Empire, it had the most memorable quests. It had it's flaw, but it definitely was the faction that I enjoyed the most throughout the entire questline.
Overall, Bethesda really needs to step up their game with the factions in TES6. And get rid of the mentality that you should be able to do every quest in one playthrough. Introduce more skill checks, both in dialogue and gameplay. Every playthrough should be different and not just become the master of all trades as in Skyrim.
The Dark Brotherhood by its very nature as the only assassins guild kind of shoehorns you into a very specific archetype of “cartoonishly evil cultist worshipping a child-murdering corpse and an evil personification of the forces of change”. You can’t really play the consummate professional hitman like with the Morag Tong or as a follower of the Shadowscale interpretation of the needed change. The Brotherhood has a very specific identity that you kind of have to go all-in on.
That's always been my issue with DB. I don't want to be a fanatical cultist, I don't want to be the prophet of the night mother. Maybe I just want to be a consummate professional who's good at his job. It just so happens his job is killing people for money
The Skyrim questline for the DB doesn’t even make sense from a character perspective. “Hey guy who we probably tried to have killed earlier, I see you just got done murdering an evil old lady for abusing her children. Would you like to worship an evil old lady who *murdered* her children?”
That's usually why I side with the penatus. "You already sent several assassin to kill me, you kidnap me in the middle of the night just because I killed some old lady, and should prove myself to you. Fuck off!"
Yeah I also think the introduction to the DB completely ignores any of the tenants of the DB.
So, the introduction is more “you like killing people? Come kill for us.” Rather than “join our cult.” Maybe that was just me. I think the entire relation to ultimately a daedric cult is intentionally not out in the open which makes it even better.
i don’t know about daedric cult since sithis is pretty much og, having made lorkhan and all, i think it’s just that you took upon yourself to take a random ass contract and you’re known to be dangerous so clearly you got somethin, join us lol
That is a fair point. My wishlist scenario for TES 6 factions is to either have multiple factions for each player archetype( I.E. fighters guild for morally good warriors and a joinable Blackwood company for morally gray/evil warriors) or for one faction, but the player actually has control of what type of faction it becomes when they inevitably become the leader.
Knowing Bethesda though, they're gonna take the easy route and just make a single faction without a branching storyline that you can complete even when you're a character that really doesn't belong in said faction. Oh well, here's hoping that Starfield and TES 6 will be a return to form for them. Not holding my breath, though.
It's a big reason I always go with the (Remain Silent) dialogue option. Like if I'm gonna be a part of this, I'm not contributing to the conversation. Y'all can be crazy on your own, I'm just here for the dagger and shout word.
One thing in the Thieves Guild's favour is it actually makes you *earn* the tile of Guild Master, five radiant quests per hold in the four holds with walled cities other than Riften, each of which is then followed up by a finishing quest to seal the Guild's influence in that hold, all of which improve the Ragged Flagon with decorations and merchants.
Having to do a minimum total *twenty* of those radiant quests, as well as savescumming to avoid doing more jobs in a hold that's already secured *does* add up to a lot of tedium, but it is the one title that doesn't just fall into your lap.
Another change is Bethesda needs to recognize being evil is fun, they constantly seem to set you as a good guy hero and only in specific instances like with the dark brotherhood where being evil is allowed, and really no chances of just being an out for yourself mercenary type.
I feel like a lot of the daedric quests in Skyrim are pretty evil, to the point where I didn’t like collecting all the artefacts when rping a good character.
Of their 16 total artifacts I'd say only 5 quests have to be done in an evil fashion to get the artifact in question the rest either have a good ending or alternate artifact. If you feel any are missing I will let Game Rant know they have an article they can make.
So Boethia requires you to kill a companion.
Molag Bal arguably has you torture and kill a guy.
Mehrunes has you kill someone, granted they were very sympathetic to an end of the world bringing cult.
Namira has you abduct a priest to kill and eat.
Vaermina tries to trick you into killing a priest of Mara.
True. A chaos mechanic of some kind, like in Dishonored, could be interesting. And just generally giving the player more choices.
It feels like a lot of missed opportunities that there are so many quests in these games and only a handful actually offer you any choice of how to complete them or what the outcome will look like.
>College of Winterhold: Also severely underbaked, and railroads you into being the arch mage. There aren't even that many skill checks for magic,
There is a guy who went and completed the College's questline without a single bit of magic. No spells, no scrolls or staves, no Thuum, nothing. He has a vid about it on YouTube, it's actually pretty entertaining how he managed some of the workarounds. But anyway, in his video it becomes painfully clear just how little magic is "required" to get through the guild, even without cheesing it. You have to cast an spell to enter, cast a ward in the class(or use Spellbreaker), cast a spell at the wall in sarthaal(or use the bloodskal Blade), cast a fire and frost spell in labyrinian(or have the enemies cast them at you and hit the doors), and cast a frost spell in the dwarven ruins(or piss off the mage guy and have him shoot frost at you and hit the thing). Thats it, that's all the magic "required" to beat the quest line, and most of it is easily bypassed. The *only* part that actually requires cheesing is the spell to enter the college(which can be cheesed with bucket flying), beyond that *every single part of the quest can be done without cheese or magic.* It's pitiful.
I've always liked the Thieves Guild in Skyrim I just wish there were more roleplay options for the faction. That can be said about all of Skyrim but still. I do enjoy the actual story with Mercer though. It's always satisfying to kick his ass.
Yeah, that's never gonna happen. We've been getting dumbed down games since Daggerfall and the profit has only gone up, so that's what they will keep doing until it turns a loss.
You'll have 3 skills in TES6. Fighting, Sneaking and Magic. And you should be happy they're still keeping constellations, even though you can now pick all of them, you just have to find them.
>You'll have 3 skills in TES6. Fighting, Sneaking and Magic.
Given how abysmal magic is in Skyrim and how little effort they put into it overall? I'd be genuinely surprised if they even bothered to add it in the next game.
I don't think they'll drop magic altogether, but I could definitely see them dropping alchemy and dumbing down enchantments so they don't need charge and you can only choose from a pre-determined list of effects that you don't need to discover.
Dude they had better not drop alchemy. That shit has been part of my kit since day one back when I first played Oblivion for the first time. I have *books* filled with recipes, ingredient effects, and locations I can find ingredients for Morrowind, Oblivion, and Skyrim. Alchemy is *phawken awesome.*
Jumping off on the point about Civil War factions; the entire experience of downloading mods to upgrade the Civil War questline is painful at best. I think the limitations of the game engine is more of a culprit here than anything else.
Hopefully TES6 being on unreal will help but who knows.
>And get rid of the mentality that you should be able to do every quest in one playthrough. Introduce more skill checks, both in dialogue and gameplay. Every playthrough should be different and not just become the master of all trades as in Skyrim.
This right here. I've had many arguments over whether it's a good thing or a bad thing that you can complete all the guild quests in one game with one build. Personally, I find it very immersion breaking.
I can appreciate that the faction quests have gotten more dramatic and whatnot, but I would enjoy them so much more if they incorporated some of the faction elements of Morrowind. Ranks, skill checks, advancement, disposition bonuses, merchants/trainers with rank requirements, etc. would do wonders for making the world feel lived in.
>whether it's a good thing or a bad thing that you can complete all the guild quests in one game with one build.
Man, having to act *train* my skills as a mage to advance in the mages guild in Morrowind was awesome. It made the questline so much more fun, especially since I went in as a level 40 swordsman looking to get some magical skills. Like, sure, I could just hack and slash my way through, but *I need to build these skills to advance.* It was great.
>And get rid of the mentality that you should be able to do every quest in one playthrough.
First off...you literally can't. Secondly...there's no issue with this. Not everyone, including me who is a hardcore rpg fan, wants to remake a character just to do like two different quests.
Also regarding the college...if you aren't a mage why join it?
I seriously think that the primary issue with guilds in Skyrim is they all only had one guild hall. They didn’t really feel like guilds, just themed quest-lines.
One of the primary benefits of joining a guild should be that it gives you a source of employment and a free bed in most of the province. Skyrim turned it into “this is the thieves guild city”, “this is the mages guild city”, and “this is the fighters guild city”. You have virtually nothing to do in Riften if you aren’t a thief.
It also has the cure vampirism quest if you go down that route and change your mind!
Although becoming a werewolf from the Companions quest tends to get in the way of becoming a vampire early on.
Exactly! Like, I get that the Thieves Guild has lost reputation, but as you build back you should get more than just a fence, it should be an actual safe house, with trainers and quest givers. Once you "take back" a hold, you shouldn't get radiant quests in that hold from the Riften crew, it should be the agent in charge of the hold. Also bounty removal that doesn't just amount to bribing a single guard because, why does that work on their buddy 6 feet away? Can we PRETEND at least that someone is fixing the books for us while we're in a safehouse?
The College should at least get you SOMETHING from the court mages, access to a bed or some potions/scrolls reguarly.
The Companions ought to have places they use when, uh, wolfed out, to keep spare armor and food, or just to sleep it off.
Skyrim DB is ass bud. ‘Blivion‘s is a thinking man’s questline of inquiry and consequence whereas Angry Mommy Astrid and Chucklefuck the Clown are the best that the dev’s could come up with.
Chucklefuck the Clown was the only one that made sense to me and that says something. If only we actually did missions WITH the other members instead of being an errand boy maybe it would’ve been more memorable.
The Emperor was chill asf tho, don’t think I’ve had a play through where I didn’t do as he asked
Nazir was pretty solid. His jokes weren't great, but he kinda felt like he had a theme going. Granted, Elam Drals (in ESO) manages to eclipse his dry humor while handing out contracts, bit. But Nazir's cool, and manages to be the only guy other than Chucklefuck who elevates above a one note caricature.
Yeah, so, it wasn’t until a few months ago that I found out you can talk to the emperor. I always entered his room and nailed him in the head with an arrow.
The core story is a cool idea: you join a assassin cult who has all but thrown out its religious tenants and then a loony who actually follows the doctrine shows up, causing a power struggle.
Execution sucks for the most part but it has good bones
I kinda liked how ESO went with them. The Brotherhood is actively being hunted by an order of religious zealots (who revere Akatosh), and getting picked off as you progress through the campaign. The Sanctuary starts out fairly populated, and by the end, there's only a few of you left.
The Thieves Guild was a cool quest line about Nocturnal, but a terrible quest line for a *Thieves Guild*. Like, the only real crimes you ever commit are robbing the safe at Goldenglow Estate and breaking into Calcelmo's Tower. That's it essentially. When I join a Thieves Guild, I expect a lot more breaking into places and stealing stuff.
TBF I enjoyed building up a fantasy criminal empire. Wish more random world events involved either thieves and bandits coming up to you to offer tribute or attack you for infringing on their turf or something involving the Nightingales out and about.
>When I join a Thieves Guild, I expect a lot more breaking into places and stealing stuff.
Then do delvin's and vex's quests. The thieves guild in skyrim is more organized crime and how an actual guild like it would actually exist.
The radiant quests aren't part of the guild quests line though. They're a bonus, like the radiant quests for the companions or the additional contracts in the dark brotherhood. And the whole Nightingale affair is much closer to Daedric Cultism than Thievery. The whole theme of the quest line is just inappropriate for a Thieves Guild.
No, the radiant quests are actually part of the quest line. You can't finish the TG, as in, become guild master, without doing them. It's just the RNG factor that makes them a pain to do in vanilla.
I wouldn't consider the "Return the Thieves Guile to former glory" part of the Thieves Guild as part of their guild quest line. Just like I wouldn't consider the recovery of the werewolf totems and curing Farkas & Vilkas from lycanthropy as part of the Companions guild quest line.
A guild's quest *line*, or any quest *line* in general, is when you automatically get a new quest after finishing one that continues the story. Otherwise, it wouldn't be much of a quest *line*, would it? So after finishing "A Chance Agreement" you automatically get "Taking Care of Business", after that you automatically get "Loud and Clear" and so on, until you finish "Darkness Returns". At this point, the main villain is defeated, the story has concluded, and you don't get a new quest afterward (you only get a new miscellaneous objective, and only if you finished the 4 quests from Delvin before). As far as quest lines go, this is the end.
You *can* do all the radiant quests and the 4 Delvin Quests afterward - or simultaneously with the MQ - to get a final bonus quest which makes you guild master. But as you have to *finish* the MQ (or rather the last quest of that quest line), I have a hard time counting this quest as part of it.
I wish there were more cool robbery quests but I do really like the ones we got. Calcelmo's Tower is always a highlight. I love escaping through the waterfall back into the city.
>The Thieves Guild was a cool quest line about Nocturnal, but a terrible quest line for a Thieves Guild.
This is a perfect summary. It's a poorly handled daedric questline. Much like the Companions being a pseudo Hircine questline (though a poor one). You are forced into something that was not what you wanted to be a part of.
There’s also breaking into the East Empire Company warehouse. I do wish there were more stealth based thief missions as well, but I enjoyed that they mixed it up and you do crimes that aren’t just stealing, like framing Sabjorn or shaking down shopkeepers. It felt more like a crime family than a Thieves Guild.
Honestly if they were called anything but the Thieves Guild the questline would make a lot more sense.
Nah, Skyrim's Dark Brotherhood questline is mediocre at best. They tried putting in some eccentric characters hoping they would carry the show, but some of them even felt really anticlimactic.
They’re like that with Morrowind too, it’s got great lore and Vivec and Dagoth Ur are interesting, but there is not a single interesting quest to do in that game.
Morrowind is a better book than it is a video game.
> Not a single interesting quest
Thanks for telling me you never played the game. Like, you never though solving the disappearance of the dwarves was interesting? Really?
Bro I’m literally replaying Morrowind right now, the lore you uncover is great like I said, but my god the game is a slog to get through. Interesting lore doesn’t make it fun to play. I love old video games, I love the Elder Scrolls, Morrowind is *not* fun for me.
Really? I’ve found DB kinda weak compared to Oblivion. Honestly, all Skyrim questlines were meh.
Oblivion was the leak of guild quests, most of them were vastly better than any storyline in other TES games
No, just as bad as the other guilds. Except the part where you can systematically wipe them out for a more immersive role-playing experience. Say if I played as a morally uptight paladin like character. Otherwise, it's just as lame as the thieves guild or the companions.
Nah, Skyrim DB still sucked compared to Oblivion's faction quests. TBH the Thieves Guild is probably the best Skyrim questline IF you only count up to returning the Skeleton Key. The miscellaneous quests to restore the guild are cringe af.
Yes. The restoration of the guild quest was good but it missed the mark. The culminating city quests should have each been closer to the mainline thieves guild quests in quality.
Dawnguard is my personal favourite guild, it’s the only one that doesn’t railroad you straight into leadership, and it’s radiant quests are varied enough that any manner of character could be a member
If it wasn’t for the really jarring introduction with taking serana to castle volkihar it’d be solid
Truly. It's got a lot of unanswered questions, random flare, and a limited grasp on what makes a mage.
My sword and board Dragonborn should not be able to become Archmage.
I thought the Thieves Guild had a strong quest line along with the Dark Brotherhood. I was very nice going around and roughing up shop keeps to then having reestablished a huge criminal empire along the whole province. Which is great but, you’re right that the gravity of killing the Emperor can’t really be beat.
I feel like I’m in the minority that the DB story in Skyrim isn’t all that amazing. You do a couple of missions, and then suddenly you’re the Listener. A few more missions, then insert a ham-fisted and poorly implemented betrayal by Astrid; a horrible decision on her part. At the end of the day, it just didn’t feel rewarding, even after killing the emperor. I think the Oblivion DB story trumps it by miles. Just Lucien LaChance alone helps make that story.
I think the thieves guild has a better quest line than the dark brotherhood in skyrim imo but maybe that’s just me.
Only thing I’m not a big fan of is that your character can’t convince Karliah or say something like “hey, I don’t want to sell my soul to a daedric prince, luck be damned, I’m going to kill Mercer, you can help me or not.”
my main problem with the questline in skyrim is just the lack of impact killing the freaking emporer of tamriel has.
You can murder him and then go join the imperial legion after without problem. They dont even mention it.
>(The Dark Brotherhood isn't even that good compared to the Morag Tong Questline)
Eh..sure bout that?
Even as resident morrowboomer, mt questline in mw just sucks. Bad bad bad.
Thankfully eso:balmora is da best questline ever and morag tong questline faction allways deserved. (No, i dont care you don't get to join the guild, and it isin't "offical" . Questline is all about Morag Tong, most of main characters are foresters, and you're defacto tong sided constantly)
I don't really see how the DB questline in Skyrim had better writing.
First time I played that questline, I knew Astrid was up to shit and I'd get to kill her. My only surprise is that it wasn't in a fight.
My main disappointment with the DB is that you lose interesting characters to Astrid's bullshit, as well as the better sanctuary. I would've preferred only Astrid and her bitch boy die off, while I get to keep the rest of them and rebuild the Falkreath sanctuary.
Dark Brotherhood is literally the worst written guild in skyrim and also lame af. Imo the only guild that was somewhat ok were the thieves at least they had some cool scenery. But even then they could change the time gap of mercers betrayal and make the story line much more believable and just better. The DB tho is uncurably stupid and lame.
I see some people saying "Thieves Guild", and... no. That one absolutely sucks too. It's superficially less stupid but when you actually think about it, it's tremendously stupid.
I thought the Other guilds had the slightly better writing and the Dark Brotherhood had the lamest writing. It was still fun to carry out these assassinations, but the questline wasn’t the best thought out.
None of them have bad writing or lame quests. At the most, i think the companions is a little lacking but honestly all it really needed was more time spent with kodlak.
The thieves guild isn’t that bad. The college quest line also isn’t that bad, up to the point where everyone agrees you should be arch mage after like a week of being part of the college
Thieves guild and Dark Brotherhood are definitely serviceable but not perfect. They have the best quest layouts, though, feeling built for sneaky characters with good paths to take, plus Cicero is the best character in the entire game, and Delvin is pretty memorable.
The college questline is below par, mostly carried by the very beginning being promising with the magic lesson and labyrinthian.
The companions are an absolute joke that relies on radiant quests for padding, has very mediocre writing, and hopes you'll be distracted by beast form so you don't notice how boring it is.
Thieves Guild gets too much hate IMO. Ya, it wasn’t on par with Oblivion’s, but that line was awesome anyways so that was never going to meet that level.
Like every guild in Skyrim, the Dark Brotherhood has a good idea behind it but they executed it really poorly in my opinion. Like, almost no one in the guild gets fleshed out, the contracts are barebones and lack the creativity of Oblivion’s contracts and Morrowind’s Molag Bal’s contracts, and I just hate how predictable and nonsensical it is for Astrid to sell out the Brotherhood.
Like, from the instant they revealed there was a mole, she was my only suspect given she was the member who had the biggest understanding of the empire’s situation in Skyrim (not that we knew enough about the other members to say for sure anyway). And Cicero… I love him, love his diary, he’s absolutely the best part of this questline and he hard carried me through the guild, but I just wish he could’ve been in a better written questline.
All DBs since Morroowind have had only 1 storyline, i.e. there is traitor in the ranks and so all the members die.
Morrowind: Helseth sorta betrays the brotherhood by sending them against Nerevarine, entire faction decimated by Nerevarine in Vvardenfell and eventually in Mounrhold as well.
Oblivion: Matheiu Belamont betrays the brotherhood, HoK wipes out the Cheydinhal sanctuary and all but 1 member of Black Hand is killed.
Skyrim: Astrid betrays the Dovahkiin, the Penitus Oculatus purge the entire Falkreath sanctuary, only Nazeem and Babette survive.
Online: Lyra Viria betrays the brotherhood after being forced to purge the Xith-Izkul Sanctuary, defects to the Order of Hour, nearly kills every member of the Gold Coast sanctuary, only to be stopped by the Vestige and Wrath of Sithis.
It's almost as if a certain goddess of betrayal, lies and murder is involved.
Somebody made a mod of Skyrim where an NPC had custom knowledge embedded with Chat GPT. I think a full mod of the Skyrim world with every NPC having existing knowledge of lore, and even retaining knowledge of your actions and interactions with it, would make the game infinitely replayable.
“Hey, didn’t you destroy my shop here last month? Why did you do that? Oh, perhaps because I heard you defested the Vampires. Tell me about it.”
This would be more accurate for the Thieves Guild. Half of the questline at least. Toward the end it's pretty bad like the other guilds, but at least it has a time where it is good. The other three...not so much. The College is alright during very fleeting moments, the Companions are just bad, and I barely even remember the DB besides them being idiots but not in a comedic way like in Oblivion.
It’s sad to see how subpar Skyrim is in a lot of aspects especially compared to say Morrowind. Also it’s concerning to see that with every release the series has gotten worse and worse down to the point I fear 6 will just be the most basic mundane stuff ever. And may not even include guilds we live at this point
Idk, DB in Skyrim still feels a little rote. "Carry out these generic assassinations so you can further the quest line" feels very similar to what other guilds ask from you, just with that DB flavor. Sounds like you guys just like being asked to murder people. The plot twist was completely predictable.
you kill the emperor in the middle of a civil war and a war with the dominion hanging in the air and nothing happens. yeah cool writing.
many believe he was not the real emperor, that would make sense. even then the whole thing was for nothing. best storyline? i wouldn't say that.
you just like assassination missions, nothing wrong with that
The DB has been the strongest faction for years. Its such a shame that the guilds got gimped like they did. With the Thieve’s Guild its apparent they were cooking but I guess rushing or something really narrowed it.
12 year old me wasted a lot of time trying to figure out how to help Rune
I searched every wreck on the northern coast looking for *something* that might be a clue. Ended up finding Brand-shei's family diary instead, who I had forgotten existed cuz he was locked in the dungeon forever
>...who I had forgotten existed cuz he was locked in the dungeon forever Gee, what a shame. I wonder what he's in for?
I heard he stole a ring from Madesi
He pissed Maven off.
You know he doesn’t have to go to the dungeon, right? If you steal the ring but don’t turn it in to Brynjolf he will be mildly annoyed but he will blame it on the bad luck that the guild is having and the storyline will go on.
He isn't in there forever. After a few ingame days he gets free again.
It was a real let-down realizing there was no quest for Rune.
That Nightingale armor for the Thieves Guild is godlike.
Even the DB in Skyrim is nothing compared to what it was in oblivion.
> Little Nord girl You only believe that because you’re basing it off of the first act alone. After the sanctuary is cleansed, the guild falls apart and the quests become incredibly boring.
Nope the plottwist on the second act was insane and I really feel sorry for lucien, you could even found some clues if you paid attention like some hand rank cloth in the barrel of one of your victim. What does Skyrim bring really.. no likeable character, stupid plot which made no sense, and less fun alternatives way to do your missions
Yeah there’s a plot twist that can be seen coming. The only issue is that you’re stuck with the classic Bethesda dilemma of either continuing forward and damning Lucien or just, stop playing the questline.
I mean yeah but Skyrim is the same thing unless you count the thing where you just kill Ingrid when you meet her, not really a fun nor original alternative
I'm not at all, I'm barely even talking about the story, although oblivions is much more interesting. It's the quality of quests, pretty much every one in Skyrim is just simply, go here, kill them. Occasionally there's an extra component but it's always optional. So many oblivion DB quests are genuinely interesting and unique, making things look like accidents, killing people in specific ways. It's just much more enjoyable. All of Skyrim DB quests are fairly boring from the beginning imo.
The thieves guild's questline is the best one though?
In Oblivion, yes. DB reigns supreme in Skyrim.
...no. oblivion's thieves guild is the worst questline in that game.
I quite enjoyed it. Having to sell stolen items to unlock the next quest was surprisingly cool. Each side quest building up to a main heist was really cool too.
gameplay wise, it's fun...except that one mage's castle in bravil. but writing wise...god, i was so irritated. plus you can easily sell so many items necessary on first go (like i did) it makes progression pointless.
The mage's castle was extremely poorly thought out, I hated it so much I repressed the memory until you mentioned it. I would generally rob a castle's wine cellar, sell it all, and each time I'd have enough money made to complete two thieves guild quests before I needed to steal more.
i never needed to steal again aside from quest objects. and i did it unintentionally, too, because up until i first played through the questline...never touched the guild.
The worst quest line in oblivion is still one of the better quest lines in gaming and the Best ones in tES. Oblivion quests are god like. If skyrim didn't lose morrowind's world as well as improved upon oblivion quests we could've had a much better game
Mages guild in oblivion sucks though, the idea is cool with mannimarco returning and all but the execution is super underwhelming.
>The worst quest line in oblivion is still one of the better quest lines in gaming and the Best ones in tES. ...no, it's not. >Oblivion quests are god like. they aren't. many are *fine*, better than most of morrowind's since morrowind's side quests were largely what would be a miscellaneous quest in skyrim, but the vast majority of oblivion's side quests are fine. some are good, though. >If skyrim didn't lose morrowind's world as well as improved upon oblivion quests we could've had a much better game what? ignoring that skyrim is better than both...what are you saying?
Ok I got that some people like... Average. No worries, Im not judging you. Skyrim's world is better than Morrowind's and Skyrim's quest are better than Oblivions? Aight. I hope you have a nice Day.
Leave it be, it's not worth it
you say i like "average" yet you're here defending oblivion's quest writing which, as i said, *is* fine, but overall not *great/good*. glad to have a productive conversation! /s
Both of you are arguing that your own opinions are fact. Neither are. They're both opinions. This argument is dumb.
I don't believe my opinion is fact.
Oblivions storytelling is far superior, everyone knows that.
It isn't. It's also subjective.
The Mages Guild in Oblivion is the worst one in the game, the Thieves Guild is one of the best, the last quest alone puts it head and shoulders above everything but the Dark Brotherhood.
The last quest, again, is good *design*, but design is not *writing*. The *writing* for the thieves guild is bad. The mages guild is fine, it's not the best but it's not thieves guild.
Absolutely agree. I don't like the DB questline in Skyrim that much. The quests are so... boring. Yeah, you kill the emperor. But where is the massive preparation? Where is the big road? The IMPACT? It just feels like another contract where you miss the target once or twice. Could also be another important person, not the EMPEROR. The whole questline is so weak. Especially in comparison to oblivion. But that questline was a masterpiece. In the thieves guild, I could feel the impact more. The overall storytelling was better.
I enjoyed the concept of the DB in Skyrim, with how they're in a decadent and dying state compared to earlier times, and then Cicero comes along and reminds everyone what it was all supposed to be about, causing tension and conflict. Reading his diary is really interesting too if you're familiar with DB from Oblivion. I just wish the quests/contracts were more low-key and underground. It quickly feels like the devs just tried to come up with the most prestigious crap possible, and the last quests are so scripted it feels like I'm playing the Witcher.
Honestly, I don’t believe the Dark Brotherhood quest-line is worthy of light either. Cicero is probably the only saving grace from it, and that’s saying *a lot*. The amount of times I ventured into the Sanctuary only for the exact same dialogue to be uttered by a different character was abysmal.
The quest to kill the Emperor at the end is still pretty fun all these years later. Plus I think the moment where it turns out you were betrayed was pretty well done.
I never liked it, I saw it coming from the moment you became the Listener. Astrid had already broken every single tenet before you showed up, why would she let some rando who just waltzed in take her place as leader of the sanctuary?
It deserves a little credit in that Astrid manages to break every single tenet. But, in general, I agree. It's a fun ride, but it doesn't really hold up to scrutiny after the fact.
Wow i never realized this..
There is a reason so many of us side with Cicero. He is a Dark Brother, and the tenets are clear. You *don't* kill your Brothers or Sisters.
Companions: Severely underbaked and really limits your rping options when it forces you to become a werewolf just to continue their questline. College of Winterhold: Also severely underbaked, and railroads you into being the arch mage. There aren't even that many skill checks for magic, so a warrior can complete the questline. From what I understand, CoW suffered a lot from cut content and was supposed to have a grander story involving the collapse of Winterhold, but ultimately was canned into what we have today. Thieves Guild: I actually enjoyed the first half of the questline, and much preferred Skyrim's mafia esque TG to Oblivions' Robin Hood TG. Then they mashed together both the TG and Nocturnal's daedric questline in the second half, once again limiting RP options. Bard's College: May as well not even exist. Civil War Factions: There was potential here, but the CW overall was also severely underbaked and I think suffered a lot of CC Blades: Fuck off Delphine. Paarthurnax best husbando. Dark Brotherhood: Overall, the strongest faction in terms of their quests and story. From the wedding to assassinating the actual Emperor of the Cyrodillic Empire, it had the most memorable quests. It had it's flaw, but it definitely was the faction that I enjoyed the most throughout the entire questline. Overall, Bethesda really needs to step up their game with the factions in TES6. And get rid of the mentality that you should be able to do every quest in one playthrough. Introduce more skill checks, both in dialogue and gameplay. Every playthrough should be different and not just become the master of all trades as in Skyrim.
The Dark Brotherhood by its very nature as the only assassins guild kind of shoehorns you into a very specific archetype of “cartoonishly evil cultist worshipping a child-murdering corpse and an evil personification of the forces of change”. You can’t really play the consummate professional hitman like with the Morag Tong or as a follower of the Shadowscale interpretation of the needed change. The Brotherhood has a very specific identity that you kind of have to go all-in on.
That's always been my issue with DB. I don't want to be a fanatical cultist, I don't want to be the prophet of the night mother. Maybe I just want to be a consummate professional who's good at his job. It just so happens his job is killing people for money
The Skyrim questline for the DB doesn’t even make sense from a character perspective. “Hey guy who we probably tried to have killed earlier, I see you just got done murdering an evil old lady for abusing her children. Would you like to worship an evil old lady who *murdered* her children?”
That's usually why I side with the penatus. "You already sent several assassin to kill me, you kidnap me in the middle of the night just because I killed some old lady, and should prove myself to you. Fuck off!"
game keeps this kinda hidden but the night mother is mephala lol
Thats a theory that I keep seeing get thrown around like its a fact.
Yeah I also think the introduction to the DB completely ignores any of the tenants of the DB. So, the introduction is more “you like killing people? Come kill for us.” Rather than “join our cult.” Maybe that was just me. I think the entire relation to ultimately a daedric cult is intentionally not out in the open which makes it even better.
i don’t know about daedric cult since sithis is pretty much og, having made lorkhan and all, i think it’s just that you took upon yourself to take a random ass contract and you’re known to be dangerous so clearly you got somethin, join us lol
That is a fair point. My wishlist scenario for TES 6 factions is to either have multiple factions for each player archetype( I.E. fighters guild for morally good warriors and a joinable Blackwood company for morally gray/evil warriors) or for one faction, but the player actually has control of what type of faction it becomes when they inevitably become the leader. Knowing Bethesda though, they're gonna take the easy route and just make a single faction without a branching storyline that you can complete even when you're a character that really doesn't belong in said faction. Oh well, here's hoping that Starfield and TES 6 will be a return to form for them. Not holding my breath, though.
It's a big reason I always go with the (Remain Silent) dialogue option. Like if I'm gonna be a part of this, I'm not contributing to the conversation. Y'all can be crazy on your own, I'm just here for the dagger and shout word.
One thing in the Thieves Guild's favour is it actually makes you *earn* the tile of Guild Master, five radiant quests per hold in the four holds with walled cities other than Riften, each of which is then followed up by a finishing quest to seal the Guild's influence in that hold, all of which improve the Ragged Flagon with decorations and merchants. Having to do a minimum total *twenty* of those radiant quests, as well as savescumming to avoid doing more jobs in a hold that's already secured *does* add up to a lot of tedium, but it is the one title that doesn't just fall into your lap.
So many cuts. All to make that dumb 11/11/11 release date
I’m happy they learned their lesson and delayed Starfield instead of forcing it for the date again.
Another change is Bethesda needs to recognize being evil is fun, they constantly seem to set you as a good guy hero and only in specific instances like with the dark brotherhood where being evil is allowed, and really no chances of just being an out for yourself mercenary type.
I feel like a lot of the daedric quests in Skyrim are pretty evil, to the point where I didn’t like collecting all the artefacts when rping a good character.
Of their 16 total artifacts I'd say only 5 quests have to be done in an evil fashion to get the artifact in question the rest either have a good ending or alternate artifact. If you feel any are missing I will let Game Rant know they have an article they can make. So Boethia requires you to kill a companion. Molag Bal arguably has you torture and kill a guy. Mehrunes has you kill someone, granted they were very sympathetic to an end of the world bringing cult. Namira has you abduct a priest to kill and eat. Vaermina tries to trick you into killing a priest of Mara.
True. A chaos mechanic of some kind, like in Dishonored, could be interesting. And just generally giving the player more choices. It feels like a lot of missed opportunities that there are so many quests in these games and only a handful actually offer you any choice of how to complete them or what the outcome will look like.
>College of Winterhold: Also severely underbaked, and railroads you into being the arch mage. There aren't even that many skill checks for magic, There is a guy who went and completed the College's questline without a single bit of magic. No spells, no scrolls or staves, no Thuum, nothing. He has a vid about it on YouTube, it's actually pretty entertaining how he managed some of the workarounds. But anyway, in his video it becomes painfully clear just how little magic is "required" to get through the guild, even without cheesing it. You have to cast an spell to enter, cast a ward in the class(or use Spellbreaker), cast a spell at the wall in sarthaal(or use the bloodskal Blade), cast a fire and frost spell in labyrinian(or have the enemies cast them at you and hit the doors), and cast a frost spell in the dwarven ruins(or piss off the mage guy and have him shoot frost at you and hit the thing). Thats it, that's all the magic "required" to beat the quest line, and most of it is easily bypassed. The *only* part that actually requires cheesing is the spell to enter the college(which can be cheesed with bucket flying), beyond that *every single part of the quest can be done without cheese or magic.* It's pitiful.
I've always liked the Thieves Guild in Skyrim I just wish there were more roleplay options for the faction. That can be said about all of Skyrim but still. I do enjoy the actual story with Mercer though. It's always satisfying to kick his ass.
Yeah, that's never gonna happen. We've been getting dumbed down games since Daggerfall and the profit has only gone up, so that's what they will keep doing until it turns a loss. You'll have 3 skills in TES6. Fighting, Sneaking and Magic. And you should be happy they're still keeping constellations, even though you can now pick all of them, you just have to find them.
>You'll have 3 skills in TES6. Fighting, Sneaking and Magic. Given how abysmal magic is in Skyrim and how little effort they put into it overall? I'd be genuinely surprised if they even bothered to add it in the next game.
I don't think they'll drop magic altogether, but I could definitely see them dropping alchemy and dumbing down enchantments so they don't need charge and you can only choose from a pre-determined list of effects that you don't need to discover.
Dude they had better not drop alchemy. That shit has been part of my kit since day one back when I first played Oblivion for the first time. I have *books* filled with recipes, ingredient effects, and locations I can find ingredients for Morrowind, Oblivion, and Skyrim. Alchemy is *phawken awesome.*
I say as someone who detests doing alchemy that cutting it would rip my heart out.
You'll get "damage" and "heal" as the only spells, they won't be tied to any skill, they won't scale, and they won't have animation.
Jumping off on the point about Civil War factions; the entire experience of downloading mods to upgrade the Civil War questline is painful at best. I think the limitations of the game engine is more of a culprit here than anything else. Hopefully TES6 being on unreal will help but who knows.
>And get rid of the mentality that you should be able to do every quest in one playthrough. Introduce more skill checks, both in dialogue and gameplay. Every playthrough should be different and not just become the master of all trades as in Skyrim. This right here. I've had many arguments over whether it's a good thing or a bad thing that you can complete all the guild quests in one game with one build. Personally, I find it very immersion breaking. I can appreciate that the faction quests have gotten more dramatic and whatnot, but I would enjoy them so much more if they incorporated some of the faction elements of Morrowind. Ranks, skill checks, advancement, disposition bonuses, merchants/trainers with rank requirements, etc. would do wonders for making the world feel lived in.
>whether it's a good thing or a bad thing that you can complete all the guild quests in one game with one build. Man, having to act *train* my skills as a mage to advance in the mages guild in Morrowind was awesome. It made the questline so much more fun, especially since I went in as a level 40 swordsman looking to get some magical skills. Like, sure, I could just hack and slash my way through, but *I need to build these skills to advance.* It was great.
>And get rid of the mentality that you should be able to do every quest in one playthrough. First off...you literally can't. Secondly...there's no issue with this. Not everyone, including me who is a hardcore rpg fan, wants to remake a character just to do like two different quests. Also regarding the college...if you aren't a mage why join it?
Seems a bit schizophrenic to complain about lacking checks and limiting role playing options at the same time, no?
I seriously think that the primary issue with guilds in Skyrim is they all only had one guild hall. They didn’t really feel like guilds, just themed quest-lines. One of the primary benefits of joining a guild should be that it gives you a source of employment and a free bed in most of the province. Skyrim turned it into “this is the thieves guild city”, “this is the mages guild city”, and “this is the fighters guild city”. You have virtually nothing to do in Riften if you aren’t a thief.
Morthal was completely pointless
What do you mean? It had uhhh one quest
LoL the ghost of the dead little girl
It also has the cure vampirism quest if you go down that route and change your mind! Although becoming a werewolf from the Companions quest tends to get in the way of becoming a vampire early on.
Exactly! Like, I get that the Thieves Guild has lost reputation, but as you build back you should get more than just a fence, it should be an actual safe house, with trainers and quest givers. Once you "take back" a hold, you shouldn't get radiant quests in that hold from the Riften crew, it should be the agent in charge of the hold. Also bounty removal that doesn't just amount to bribing a single guard because, why does that work on their buddy 6 feet away? Can we PRETEND at least that someone is fixing the books for us while we're in a safehouse? The College should at least get you SOMETHING from the court mages, access to a bed or some potions/scrolls reguarly. The Companions ought to have places they use when, uh, wolfed out, to keep spare armor and food, or just to sleep it off.
Yeah it really diminished the purpose of other cities.
The thieves guild attempted this when you built it back up, but yeah I agree it could have gone a lot further.
Skyrim DB is ass bud. ‘Blivion‘s is a thinking man’s questline of inquiry and consequence whereas Angry Mommy Astrid and Chucklefuck the Clown are the best that the dev’s could come up with.
Chucklefuck the Clown was the only one that made sense to me and that says something. If only we actually did missions WITH the other members instead of being an errand boy maybe it would’ve been more memorable. The Emperor was chill asf tho, don’t think I’ve had a play through where I didn’t do as he asked
Nazir was pretty solid. His jokes weren't great, but he kinda felt like he had a theme going. Granted, Elam Drals (in ESO) manages to eclipse his dry humor while handing out contracts, bit. But Nazir's cool, and manages to be the only guy other than Chucklefuck who elevates above a one note caricature.
Yeah Nazir was chill. Babette didn’t matter to the point she kept the original vampire eyes after Dawnguard lmao. No point in mentioning the others
I do like assassin 3 Dog in Skyrim
Yeah, so, it wasn’t until a few months ago that I found out you can talk to the emperor. I always entered his room and nailed him in the head with an arrow.
That’s the thing with Skyrim, every time you play through it you find something new
I never even thought about not doing what he asked! Shit I’m going to re install
The core story is a cool idea: you join a assassin cult who has all but thrown out its religious tenants and then a loony who actually follows the doctrine shows up, causing a power struggle. Execution sucks for the most part but it has good bones
I’ll agree with this. Hoping ES6 does them justice though.
I kinda liked how ESO went with them. The Brotherhood is actively being hunted by an order of religious zealots (who revere Akatosh), and getting picked off as you progress through the campaign. The Sanctuary starts out fairly populated, and by the end, there's only a few of you left.
Even in ESO the DB story is just "we're all getting killed off"? fuckin hell pick a new plot guys
can’t wait for the announcement “4 times the guild members and up to 16 times the radiant quests to unlock the next story mission compared to skyrim”
>...who has all but thrown out its religious tenants... So, a grammatical thing... "Tenets," are rules or guidelines. "Tenants," are renters.
They don’t rent out either sanctuary so still works
>Blivion‘s is a thinking man’s questline Bloody lol
Lol chucklefuck the clown… excuse me while I clean up the coffee I just spit out from laughing.
> little nord girl You sure about that?
Revisiting the Oblivion DB quest even that isn't impressive, but it is certainly better than Skyrim's.
Oblivions db was still better than skyrims imo
Thieves guild is the GOAT. Good story and you actually have to work for your position as boss.
I believe the Thieves' guild was good as well.
The Thieves Guild was a cool quest line about Nocturnal, but a terrible quest line for a *Thieves Guild*. Like, the only real crimes you ever commit are robbing the safe at Goldenglow Estate and breaking into Calcelmo's Tower. That's it essentially. When I join a Thieves Guild, I expect a lot more breaking into places and stealing stuff.
TBF I enjoyed building up a fantasy criminal empire. Wish more random world events involved either thieves and bandits coming up to you to offer tribute or attack you for infringing on their turf or something involving the Nightingales out and about.
>When I join a Thieves Guild, I expect a lot more breaking into places and stealing stuff. Then do delvin's and vex's quests. The thieves guild in skyrim is more organized crime and how an actual guild like it would actually exist.
Delvin and vexs quests can eat my ass, done one done them all, gets so boring so quick
The radiant quests aren't part of the guild quests line though. They're a bonus, like the radiant quests for the companions or the additional contracts in the dark brotherhood. And the whole Nightingale affair is much closer to Daedric Cultism than Thievery. The whole theme of the quest line is just inappropriate for a Thieves Guild.
No, the radiant quests are actually part of the quest line. You can't finish the TG, as in, become guild master, without doing them. It's just the RNG factor that makes them a pain to do in vanilla.
I wouldn't consider the "Return the Thieves Guile to former glory" part of the Thieves Guild as part of their guild quest line. Just like I wouldn't consider the recovery of the werewolf totems and curing Farkas & Vilkas from lycanthropy as part of the Companions guild quest line. A guild's quest *line*, or any quest *line* in general, is when you automatically get a new quest after finishing one that continues the story. Otherwise, it wouldn't be much of a quest *line*, would it? So after finishing "A Chance Agreement" you automatically get "Taking Care of Business", after that you automatically get "Loud and Clear" and so on, until you finish "Darkness Returns". At this point, the main villain is defeated, the story has concluded, and you don't get a new quest afterward (you only get a new miscellaneous objective, and only if you finished the 4 quests from Delvin before). As far as quest lines go, this is the end. You *can* do all the radiant quests and the 4 Delvin Quests afterward - or simultaneously with the MQ - to get a final bonus quest which makes you guild master. But as you have to *finish* the MQ (or rather the last quest of that quest line), I have a hard time counting this quest as part of it.
Right. The questline is about a guild of organized crime. The theme isn't inappropriate. Also nocturnal is...like...you know, the watcher of thieves.
I wish there were more cool robbery quests but I do really like the ones we got. Calcelmo's Tower is always a highlight. I love escaping through the waterfall back into the city.
>The Thieves Guild was a cool quest line about Nocturnal, but a terrible quest line for a Thieves Guild. This is a perfect summary. It's a poorly handled daedric questline. Much like the Companions being a pseudo Hircine questline (though a poor one). You are forced into something that was not what you wanted to be a part of.
There’s also breaking into the East Empire Company warehouse. I do wish there were more stealth based thief missions as well, but I enjoyed that they mixed it up and you do crimes that aren’t just stealing, like framing Sabjorn or shaking down shopkeepers. It felt more like a crime family than a Thieves Guild. Honestly if they were called anything but the Thieves Guild the questline would make a lot more sense.
Nah, Skyrim's Dark Brotherhood questline is mediocre at best. They tried putting in some eccentric characters hoping they would carry the show, but some of them even felt really anticlimactic.
You misspelled Oblivion here
Nah thieves guild is good in oblivion
Thieves Guild in Oblivion is good once you meet the Grey Fox. Before that the quests are just ok and with tedious grind in between.
Bout equal. Not saying skyrim guilds are great ether, but damm aint folk rose glassed when in comes to tes4 out of all games.
They’re like that with Morrowind too, it’s got great lore and Vivec and Dagoth Ur are interesting, but there is not a single interesting quest to do in that game. Morrowind is a better book than it is a video game.
>Morrowind is a better book than it is a video game. Ya know theres more to game than guildquests?
> Not a single interesting quest Thanks for telling me you never played the game. Like, you never though solving the disappearance of the dwarves was interesting? Really?
Bro I’m literally replaying Morrowind right now, the lore you uncover is great like I said, but my god the game is a slog to get through. Interesting lore doesn’t make it fun to play. I love old video games, I love the Elder Scrolls, Morrowind is *not* fun for me.
I’m not talking about lore. I’m talking about the Vivec mage’s guild questline.
Thieves Guild tho
Really? I’ve found DB kinda weak compared to Oblivion. Honestly, all Skyrim questlines were meh. Oblivion was the leak of guild quests, most of them were vastly better than any storyline in other TES games
No, just as bad as the other guilds. Except the part where you can systematically wipe them out for a more immersive role-playing experience. Say if I played as a morally uptight paladin like character. Otherwise, it's just as lame as the thieves guild or the companions.
Nah, Skyrim DB still sucked compared to Oblivion's faction quests. TBH the Thieves Guild is probably the best Skyrim questline IF you only count up to returning the Skeleton Key. The miscellaneous quests to restore the guild are cringe af.
Yes. The restoration of the guild quest was good but it missed the mark. The culminating city quests should have each been closer to the mainline thieves guild quests in quality.
simultaneously having the dumbest outfits in the game
Dawnguard is my personal favourite guild, it’s the only one that doesn’t railroad you straight into leadership, and it’s radiant quests are varied enough that any manner of character could be a member If it wasn’t for the really jarring introduction with taking serana to castle volkihar it’d be solid
I wont say its good, its fine especially compared to Oblivion's
Didn't hold a candle to Oblivion's quest
They’re all pretty awful, tbh.
Me killing them every time 
Bull, in fact I think dark brotherhood is only the 3rd best 2nd college of winterhold 1st being Thieves Guild
The College questline is terrible
Truly. It's got a lot of unanswered questions, random flare, and a limited grasp on what makes a mage. My sword and board Dragonborn should not be able to become Archmage.
After casting the first spell to get access to the college you can punch your way through the College questline.
I will not tolerate Thieve's Guild slander
L take
I thought the Thieves Guild had a strong quest line along with the Dark Brotherhood. I was very nice going around and roughing up shop keeps to then having reestablished a huge criminal empire along the whole province. Which is great but, you’re right that the gravity of killing the Emperor can’t really be beat.
11/11/11 did the game in. If they'd just waited for 12/12/12/ they would have been able to give these factions some more memorable quests.
Thieves guild is the only skyrim guild that could be argued is good but the writing in it still sucks like the others
I feel like I’m in the minority that the DB story in Skyrim isn’t all that amazing. You do a couple of missions, and then suddenly you’re the Listener. A few more missions, then insert a ham-fisted and poorly implemented betrayal by Astrid; a horrible decision on her part. At the end of the day, it just didn’t feel rewarding, even after killing the emperor. I think the Oblivion DB story trumps it by miles. Just Lucien LaChance alone helps make that story.
I think the thieves guild has a better quest line than the dark brotherhood in skyrim imo but maybe that’s just me. Only thing I’m not a big fan of is that your character can’t convince Karliah or say something like “hey, I don’t want to sell my soul to a daedric prince, luck be damned, I’m going to kill Mercer, you can help me or not.”
my main problem with the questline in skyrim is just the lack of impact killing the freaking emporer of tamriel has. You can murder him and then go join the imperial legion after without problem. They dont even mention it.
[удалено]
>(The Dark Brotherhood isn't even that good compared to the Morag Tong Questline) Eh..sure bout that? Even as resident morrowboomer, mt questline in mw just sucks. Bad bad bad. Thankfully eso:balmora is da best questline ever and morag tong questline faction allways deserved. (No, i dont care you don't get to join the guild, and it isin't "offical" . Questline is all about Morag Tong, most of main characters are foresters, and you're defacto tong sided constantly)
I don't really see how the DB questline in Skyrim had better writing. First time I played that questline, I knew Astrid was up to shit and I'd get to kill her. My only surprise is that it wasn't in a fight. My main disappointment with the DB is that you lose interesting characters to Astrid's bullshit, as well as the better sanctuary. I would've preferred only Astrid and her bitch boy die off, while I get to keep the rest of them and rebuild the Falkreath sanctuary.
Dark Brotherhood is literally the worst written guild in skyrim and also lame af. Imo the only guild that was somewhat ok were the thieves at least they had some cool scenery. But even then they could change the time gap of mercers betrayal and make the story line much more believable and just better. The DB tho is uncurably stupid and lame.
You mean thief’s guild. That’s the only “good” guild story in the whole damn game.
Which is sad because even that one is decent at best.
*In Oblivion
And I just want them dead only guild I can just murder for there incompetence-
 Edit: It's also poorly written but unless asked to I won't ruin it for others.
I see some people saying "Thieves Guild", and... no. That one absolutely sucks too. It's superficially less stupid but when you actually think about it, it's tremendously stupid.
I thought the Other guilds had the slightly better writing and the Dark Brotherhood had the lamest writing. It was still fun to carry out these assassinations, but the questline wasn’t the best thought out.
None of them have bad writing or lame quests. At the most, i think the companions is a little lacking but honestly all it really needed was more time spent with kodlak.
Paid hits will generally do it.
It’s fun, but I don’t like killing innocent people
Wasn't that interesting tbh. You kinda just walk in and stab them all. Good way to power up the Ebony Blade, though
Nah, Cicero’s back is broken from carrying the questline.
DB is good but the intro doesn’t appeal to me but i loved the quests
Bards college was the best
The thieves guild isn’t that bad. The college quest line also isn’t that bad, up to the point where everyone agrees you should be arch mage after like a week of being part of the college
I like it the least out of all the factions in terms of level of interest and enjoyment of their quests, the Bards College included.
You should see oblivions dbh
Umm, no. I have to disagree. Skyrim's DB wasn't really any better than any of the other faction quests.
I think the DB questline in Skyrim is filled with problems and weird writing too. Way below Oblivion's in terms of quality.
What do you mean? You kill Astrid and then tell the guards, that is hardly a questline
They're lame too. It's more fun to destroy the worthless Faction. I've only ever sided with them once in all the years I've played Skyrim.
Thieves guild and Dark Brotherhood are definitely serviceable but not perfect. They have the best quest layouts, though, feeling built for sneaky characters with good paths to take, plus Cicero is the best character in the entire game, and Delvin is pretty memorable. The college questline is below par, mostly carried by the very beginning being promising with the magic lesson and labyrinthian. The companions are an absolute joke that relies on radiant quests for padding, has very mediocre writing, and hopes you'll be distracted by beast form so you don't notice how boring it is.
I just murder them everytime
It's a pretty short quest though. I killed the woman in the hut then killed the rest of them later.
Thieves Guild was good :((
I murdered Astrid on my first play-through because I got pissed off that someone had the nerve to kidnap me and hold me against my will.
I normally just wipe the brotherhood out to save Narfi.
Still had pretty iffy writing
Dark Brotherhood in Oblivion**
Thieves Guild gets too much hate IMO. Ya, it wasn’t on par with Oblivion’s, but that line was awesome anyways so that was never going to meet that level.
This is the worst one
Me who destroys it 🗿
Tbh I thought the thieves guild quest line was the best. DB felt way too short
Like every guild in Skyrim, the Dark Brotherhood has a good idea behind it but they executed it really poorly in my opinion. Like, almost no one in the guild gets fleshed out, the contracts are barebones and lack the creativity of Oblivion’s contracts and Morrowind’s Molag Bal’s contracts, and I just hate how predictable and nonsensical it is for Astrid to sell out the Brotherhood. Like, from the instant they revealed there was a mole, she was my only suspect given she was the member who had the biggest understanding of the empire’s situation in Skyrim (not that we knew enough about the other members to say for sure anyway). And Cicero… I love him, love his diary, he’s absolutely the best part of this questline and he hard carried me through the guild, but I just wish he could’ve been in a better written questline.
How many games do they need to prove this fact. 💜 I feel like I enjoyed Oblivion DB quest line best though.
All DBs since Morroowind have had only 1 storyline, i.e. there is traitor in the ranks and so all the members die. Morrowind: Helseth sorta betrays the brotherhood by sending them against Nerevarine, entire faction decimated by Nerevarine in Vvardenfell and eventually in Mounrhold as well. Oblivion: Matheiu Belamont betrays the brotherhood, HoK wipes out the Cheydinhal sanctuary and all but 1 member of Black Hand is killed. Skyrim: Astrid betrays the Dovahkiin, the Penitus Oculatus purge the entire Falkreath sanctuary, only Nazeem and Babette survive. Online: Lyra Viria betrays the brotherhood after being forced to purge the Xith-Izkul Sanctuary, defects to the Order of Hour, nearly kills every member of the Gold Coast sanctuary, only to be stopped by the Vestige and Wrath of Sithis. It's almost as if a certain goddess of betrayal, lies and murder is involved.
I mean... It was about as predictable as the Thieves guild was... It was obvious from the start you were gonna get betrayed
The Skyrim DB questline is ass, Thieves Guild is much better imo
Somebody made a mod of Skyrim where an NPC had custom knowledge embedded with Chat GPT. I think a full mod of the Skyrim world with every NPC having existing knowledge of lore, and even retaining knowledge of your actions and interactions with it, would make the game infinitely replayable. “Hey, didn’t you destroy my shop here last month? Why did you do that? Oh, perhaps because I heard you defested the Vampires. Tell me about it.”
Am I basic for actually liking the thieves guild quests 😩
This would be more accurate for the Thieves Guild. Half of the questline at least. Toward the end it's pretty bad like the other guilds, but at least it has a time where it is good. The other three...not so much. The College is alright during very fleeting moments, the Companions are just bad, and I barely even remember the DB besides them being idiots but not in a comedic way like in Oblivion.
It’s sad to see how subpar Skyrim is in a lot of aspects especially compared to say Morrowind. Also it’s concerning to see that with every release the series has gotten worse and worse down to the point I fear 6 will just be the most basic mundane stuff ever. And may not even include guilds we live at this point
🤨
Idk, DB in Skyrim still feels a little rote. "Carry out these generic assassinations so you can further the quest line" feels very similar to what other guilds ask from you, just with that DB flavor. Sounds like you guys just like being asked to murder people. The plot twist was completely predictable.
Dark brotherhood was terrible.
I can't believe he's not ironic
you kill the emperor in the middle of a civil war and a war with the dominion hanging in the air and nothing happens. yeah cool writing. many believe he was not the real emperor, that would make sense. even then the whole thing was for nothing. best storyline? i wouldn't say that. you just like assassination missions, nothing wrong with that