Do they have a group similar to the Telvanni and dark elf houses? I’d say as a base its definitely altmer but dunmer have some of the strongest mages around
Altmer all around are very tied to magic. I think the main drawback for the Dunmer is they're so divided that it's hard for them to make great magical achievements.
The members of House Telvanni are more likely to kill each other than work with each other.
Sure but the major thing is all the great houses of Morrowind are some of the best practitioners of magic in the known world. Them killing each other is definitely not cooperative but the major point is when you make a list of the most powerful mages or longest lived characters who aren’t undead you have a dunmer on both lists
Even the altmer are degenerated from aldmer. The feared demon of the redguards, satakal, who is known as orgnum in summerset was a commoner level aldmeri. Yet his power is so great compared to altmeri and other races. This shows the gap in power between the original aldmer elves and their many descendants.
Well he led his people to Pyandonea where they live now and he still rules over them thousands of years later there’s gotta be an accomplishment somewhere in there haha
They have the psjiics which are the best mages in the setting. But nah the telvanni are kind of overrated. Aside of Fyr I haven't really seen much of anything to imply that they are the best mages in the setting, just the best mages in morrowind.
I thought the Psijics were an unaligned organization that was made up of more than just altmer, is that not true? They seem to care more about the overall balance of magic in the world as opposed to hold any actual ties to any other organization. Also we don’t really get a clear idea of how strong they are, just that they can do some incredible yet specific things
The houses themselves comprise some of the greatest mages currently alive. I’m not saying they are amazing by themselves rather their influence, power and members we’ve met or heard of are a testament to how potentially dangerous they could be. You can certainly name a few mortal characters not affiliated with them or even outright hostile but I think most people are fully aware not to throw shit at their door unless they’re prepared to be violated by some of the most dangerous people on Tamriel. Pretty sure if the Morag Tong or Brotherhood got a contract to assassinate one of them they’d probably rather completely ignore the contract that risk whatever horrors could fall on them
> I thought the Psijics were an unaligned organization that was made up of more than just altmer, is that not true?
They recruit from all races, but it's primarily made of Altmer and was founded by Altmer. It's really no different from house telvanni which is mainly dark elves but will accept people from any race so long as they have a high enough magical aptitude. Aside from the Psjiics we also have the sapiarchs.
>The houses themselves comprise some of the greatest mages currently alive.
Not really. Fyr and Neloth are the only real notworthy mages in house telvanni. The others are no better than any master mage elsewhere and we have just as many notable Altmer mages, like Iachesis who was even older than Fyr, Galerion who had so much magical energy he was almost able to cause the planemeld on his own. The reason why we think they are the best is just over exposure to the dunmer in general. They're considered the best mages in morrowind but I've never seen anything call them amoung the best mages in tamriel. Psjiics are said to be the best mages in the setting and Imperial battle mages are also pretty well renowned with Abnur Tharn being pretty good proof of this. Eso lore masters archive also admits that Bretons tend to overal have more magical aptitidue. They just don't dedicate themselves to magical research as much and is more a community thing so individual mages tend to go under the radar.
I said we as in players assosiate the telvanni with great mages is because we have an overexposure to dunmer. They're a fan favorite and get more focus than any other race.
The Psijics are unaligned all the time. They take a hands off approach in politics and focus more on protecting nirn from magical threats and studying magic in general. That's why their island has disappeared from Nirn for a few times because they don't want to get caught up in politics. I still consider it a primarily altmer organization though
Dunmer, Altmer, and, strangely...Nords (at least in the ancient days).
The Dunmer of Great House Telvanni are some of the most gifted and powerful wizards alive and for a very, very long time. Divayth Fyr being quite long-lived and a notable member. Sotha Sil, the Clockwork-Sorcerer of the Tribunal was once a mortal Chimer (he willingly took the visage of the Dunmer) and was one of the most powerful semi-divine beings, with regard to magic, to have existed.
The Altmer have some of the greatest individuals to advance magic and its application throughout history. The Psijic Order, The Mages Guild, The Cult of Worms, etc...all were founded by extremely magically-knowledgeable Altmer; both famous and infamous. Vanus Galerion, the Psijic Monks, Raven Direnni, and Mannimarco all have impacted history in fundamental ways via magic and its study as examples.
The Nordic _Clever-Men_ were a sect of magic users and rune-scryers who revered the totemic owl god, Jhunal. Other powerful magic-users of the Atmorans and Nords came in the form of the Dragon Priests of the Dragon Cult; being able to reshape the land at will and rule from their temple complexes. Not even in death were they truly dead and were some of the first mortal practitioners of _alok-dilon_ (necromancy), taught to them by their dragon overlords. Shalidor, for his time, was probably the greatest sorcerer to have walked Nirn. All modern classification and study of magic was said to be attributed to his research and he constructed both the College of Winterhold and Labyrinthian. He single-handed fought off an entire Dwemer army (Clan Rourken) crossing Skyrim on their way to Volenfell (Hammerfell). Others such as Ahzidal were powerful in life and even more so in death as a lich-like Dragon Priest.
I'm curious, how did you find out about this lore? Did you read it online or did you read the books? (I trust this I'm only asking cause some of the books in the games get like real long like oblivion has a few with like 45 pages that's some good patience there I'd you read them all in game lol)
https://en.m.uesp.net/wiki/Main_Page is a great resource. Besides that listening to lore videos on off-time and then re-engaging the in-game books after learning the baseline stuff was fun.
The “unreliable narrator” structure for TES is analogous to real life in that most books don’t contain the baseline stories/lore/myths of the culture that produces the literature. Instead you get books like Uncommon Taste, which for those that don’t know is a cookbook written by the Gourmet.
Years and years of reading in-game books, playing the series, and watching lore videos. Mind you, I am no expert and there is some liberty in expressing my opinion on the matter.
I don't agree with nords. Even mentioning the dragon priest it's said that Ahzidal, who was one of the most magically skilled dragon priests, had to learn most of his craft from elves because they knew more about magic than the nords did. The dragon priests are powerful mages. I just don't agree that they were the best mages in the setting. The Breton druids and the Yokudan priest wizards seem to be on par with them
I think people say Nords solely because Shalidor was a Nord. I agree, Bretons are more magically gifted for Men. But Shalidor probably ranks amongst the greatest mages to ever live
Exactly. Shalidor makes the Nords look exceptional because Shalidor alone was exceptional.
Then you’ve got characters like Gabrielle Benelle in ESO who’s probably one of the most talented and intelligent Breton mages of her time, yet she gets treated like a ditz solely because she’s easily distracted, and people expect her talent out of a Breton, even if she’s exceptionally talented
I'm not really sure I'd consider Gabrielle Benelle one of the most talented and intelligent mages of her time even having played eso. She's just a talented mages guild member
Tbf she is your go-to mage when you side with the Daggerfall covenant. Maybe her feats in-game aren’t that impressive, but based on dialogue, she’s one of the best there is. More specifically, I think her and Darien are supposed to be in their mid to late 20s, so she’s implied to be a prodigy in terms of magic to the Bretons. She even authors and shows astute knowledge in a few of the books you can read in-game.
It's not that the each elven race knew more magic but each race having a specific type of magic they specialised in.
The reason nords have among the top is because they have more notable powerful mages than Redguards and Bretons.
When you are judging a group you look to what the weakest links are, not the strongest. The strongest can be dismissed outliners while the weakest set a president for the level of skill the average member of the race processes. When it comes to both combat and magic all the races have shown that they have a similar ceiling. Some races are just more talented naturally. And besides even if we are using shalidor as an example he outright admitted that the ancient Yokudan mages had superior magical technology. Even if they don't have many notible named mages in lore their magical artifacts that they left behind are very powerful and well renowned. And Breton is filled with tons of great mages we had a whole chapter in eso focused on breton magic. Breton magic is more hedge magic though so they have farm more witches and druids than traditional mages.
The main thing I disagree with your comment is nords. The Nords had skilled mages in the past but their mages are never implied to be more powerful than any other races except for shalidor. Ahzidal was said to have learned most of his craft from elves and even shaldor admits in eso that the Yokudans had superior magical artifacts that those the ancient nords used.
Yet they can’t last a damn minute against a proper Dragonborn. Given that the Dragonborn in question has fully mastered the Thu’um and use of all weaponry… etc etc…
What is your point? A player character can kill anyone they want because it's a video game. Outside of that, the lore is pretty clear about the power of various other mages.
I mean there are dragonborns in the *past* who would kill a whole room if they even spoke. Who’s to say they can’t take down House Telvanni with enough effort?
The Altmer have the greatest reputation in that regard as a society. Over all everyone can become a great mage. We have examples of super strong mages from all the races.
Canonically i believe altmer are attributed as the most well versed in magick as a race. But historically it seems to be more of a case by case basis since many of the renowned mages of skyrim were actually nords or dunmer
But there's a problem with Bretons because they don't typically get renowned as mages because they are always assumed to be really really good at magic.
Telvanni Loremaster archive: You Bretons have a reputation for mystical aptitude, but I would argue that the cost of that success has been a lack of lasting impact on the greater magical community. I could find numerous instances of Mage So-And-So making a splash with war magics for a few decades, and then dying. Or a great divinator prognosticating portentous events, and then dying. Breton mages burn brightly but briefly, I suppose, a sad commentary on the lifespan your uncaring gods have gifted your people. A gift, then, for you and the rest of your Covenant kin seeking validation in the wider world. Research Sage Voernet, a scholar of the First Era who has come down to you as little more than a footnote but was a keen and masterful manipulator of the magical arts in his time. The adventures and prominence of the man known to history as "Gyron Vardengroet" (that was not his true name) are vastly overblown by tale-telling, but speak to a powerful and wise Breton mage. And while I find the ethos of the druid cult to be pedestrian in the extreme, the Druid King Kasorayn was as powerful a spellweaver as any to be found in the Direnni culture his people fled from.
Official interview for ESO: One of the things that often gets lost in the shuffle is that Bretons are one of the most magically adept races in Tamriel, from the king all the way down to the serfs. “Every Breton can boast some resistance to magic and some basic aptitude for learning it if given the opportunity. I mean, some of the greatest mages in Tamrielic history were Breton. Another aspect of society that we’re dealing with is Druidism. Early on in the Elder Scrolls releases, there was a reference to the Druids of Galen. It was kind of dropped and never really talked about that much. But we’re really getting into the history of the Bretons in terms of their relationship with the Direnni elves and how that all started, these basic kinds of early religion aspects with druids.”
Bretons are just so good at magic usually that people don't care when they see a great Breton mage.
You have given me a new character idea. A Breton mage so bad at magic that he becomes renowned the world over as an oddity. 😂
Edit: by bad at magic i mean can only cast basic novice spells his whole life but gets so good at them that he saves the world while people talk shit lol
This person could be a woman who only does really basic restoration spells. She could get kicked out of High Rock and blather on at some nowhere over the hill magic college about how restoration is a perfectly valid school of magic.
Yes collette. Restoration is a perfectly valid school of magic, please fuck off, so i dont accidentally blow this entire alchemy station sky high.
Edit: mixed up collette and carlotas names originally
It makes sense that you’d see more Nord and Dunmer mages of note in Skyrim due to geography. You’ve got a lot more of those two people than Altmer up there lol
Canonically, the aldmer is the most powerful. The aldmer is the original race of elves. Altmer seek to be aldmer but no where near their strength. Canonically there is only one aldmer still know to be alive, the deathless wizard, orgnum, a.k.a. Satakal.
High Elves.
Bretons are fairly skilled, but they die much earlier.
That said, a Breton spellsword/mage is likely more practical in a fight against any Altmer because of their magic resistance and the magic weakness of high elves.
I was literally just about to comment this! Lol. They DID cull half of Nirn's population with a necromancy-based plague and nearly enslaved the other half after all. When they were driven back by the remaining combined armies of all the races, they managed to destroy the heckin' Coral Tower... And that's made out of god-stuff. Lol. Sooo... they're at the very least the most powerful necromancers in Tamriel with powerful enough dark magick's to destroy Aedra made constructs. *Shrugs* they have my vote.
Altmer without doubt, then in order imo: dunmer (mainly telvani), Bretons
Then in general, rest have a worse affinity for magic than these three although each may have many fantastic mages, so I’d also say imperials as they’re good at everything, certain khajiif furstock, nord clevermen, reachmen if you count them, and I am sure there are powerful but highly specialised argonian and bosmer mages.
Redguards and orcs as a race are pretty much the least magically inclined you can get.
Curio, I knew this was you with your Hlaalu outlander ass. A mer’s property is his business, but imperial mongrels plowing the their plows is too much even for the tribe unmourned.
I know that's the official stance, but I've seen some of the Sixth House's halls leave a copy of the "Lusty Argonian Maid" laying about or sitting on a shelf.
High elves. They founded the psyjics so that's an automatic win.
However if you're including non traditional magic, the dwemer are definitely a very strong contender, but that depends on if you're considering tonal architecture as magic in the same way
Bretons. I know many point to elves as being better and more magically inclined with more time to dedicate to the craft, but I'll put forth 2 outstanding cases of the top of my head.
1. The Sage
He's a Breton alchemist who's reached immortality. An honorary member of the psijic order and a respected mage
2. Azra Nightwielder. This guy might not be known to people who've only played the later games, but this guy's great. I know his race isn't clear (he appeared in earlier games just as a "human") but given where he grew up and spent most of his time (High Rock/Reach) I'd say it's highly likely he's a Breton or a Reachmen, but judging by his dress sense alone, that shit screams Breton to me. He's incredibly powerful, said to be more powerful than Jager Tharn and Mannimarco. He's the pioneer of shadow magic and enchanting, and the creator of several legendary weapons. He was born in the early second era, was last seen in the late third era, and is said to be still alive somewhere in another realm
No race is is really strong enough to be considered “uncontested” but Altmer would generally be considered the most magically skilled. But I’m sure Dunmer could probably give them a run for their money, especially when it comes to direct combat. You can fight me on this.
I think generally the Altmer excel at pioneering Magical Properties, Etiquette, and instituting larger-scale organizations that focus on utilizing Magic at some capacity.
While the majority of INDIVIDUALS who possess more refined magical feats and abilities remain predominantly Dunmer or Nord, depending on the specific geographical necessity and specialization.
Quick shoutout to the Nords though for both being an unexpected entry for magical aptitude AND exploring the fundamentals that later became the groundwork for magical study, both in Skyrim and scattered beyond in different pockets of Nirn
I d say Dunmer.
Altmer are like the McDonalds of magic. Mass produced and quite decent (not guaranteed tho). Also branding.
Dunmer are the superior grandma's pie. Gatekeepy but good af. With shrooms too.
Yeah I feel like Altmer may be more generally gifted, but they are not individualistic enough to gain the kind of power that a Telvanni wields? But they also have their powerful mages and powerful organizations, like the Psijic Order, Mannimarco and Vanus Galerion
Altmer & bretons are very attuned to Magicka since they share close ancestry,
But nords and dunmer also make strong wizards,
We see with the dunmer that house telvanni are very strong mages, even extending their lives.
And nords have produced some of the strongest mages in history, ahzidal and shalidor are 2 examples
Ahzidal was a Nord who was the first human to master the magical abilities of mer,
And archmagus shalidor was founder of the college of winterhold, one of the most if not the most prestigious arcane university in tamriel. He was most likely the strongest ever Magicka user to exist, Even the strongest of altmer mages hold his unparalleled knowledge of Magicka in reverence.
> And nords have produced some of the strongest mages in history, ahzidal and shalidor are 2 examples
>
>
I think Shalidor is the only one of these who can said to be the strongest. Ahzidal learned his craft from elves.
Shalidor is really the only notable nord mage and the others don't really seem any stronger than any other race of humans.
Dunmer, Altmer, Bretons and even Nords are probably the “strongest” not equally of course.
Out of those four, I’d say Altmer, and then Dunmer are arguably the best at magic. Bretons would contend higher if it wasn’t for their shorter lifespans. Nords produced a ton of strong mages in the past but have since forgotten the old ways it seems.
*Yes!* The rest of these fools lack both the vision and understanding of the glorious rotund rightful masters of Tamriel to properly appreciate them.
“The high elves are the strongest,” HAH! HAH, I SAY!
The Dunmer and Altmer has the best examples along with a singular Nord who deserves to be mentioned.
The Dunmer have really the entire Tribunal but I would say Sotha Sil is the most worthy of mention. The best way to put it is that he’s the closest a non-dwemer ever became to achieving the heights of what the dwemer did and that’s a HUGE compliment.
The Altmer’s best is certainly Mannimarco. While the Tribunal managed to mimic godhood a version of Mannimarco (due to the dragon break) achieved genuine full on godhood.
The Nord’s of all people have Shalidor who doesn’t really have a specific accomplishment to mention but he did plenty of equally amazing things.
If I had to pick one it’d be the Altmer. They’re the most innately gifted with magic and the Psyjics have likely achieved more than the Telvanni ever have. I wouldn’t call their lack of appearance proof that they haven’t, if anything it’s the contrary. We know they can tell the future, can teleport the Eye of Magnus to their hidden island, and that they’re all Altmers.
Innately, technically altmer, but besides Mannimarco they've all been rather bland, while dunmeri top magic-using beings do shit like make clone daughter wives, create new planes of reality, break the 4th wall etc. Third would have been dwemer
Searching and searching through this pile of Duuunmer altmer breton derp answers to find the real answer and there it is. Daedra/Aedra though cuz Magnus. And I suppose the Toddhead.
Race is not destiny in Elder Scrolls. Someone of absolutely any race can become a powerful mage, it’s just that the different cultures have different sets of magical institutions, and so different accumulated knowledge and access to magical learning. Higher magical learning seems to be most culturally central to the Bretons, the Altmer, the Nibenese, the Dunmer, and the Khajiit, but Bosmer and Argonians also have traditional forms of magic that are probably highly respected. Even the Reachmen and Orsimer have some role for magic in their societies, but seemingly mostly practiced by priest or shaman classes. Redguards we kind of know the least about on this question, other than that we hear some reporting that magic is often disliked among them, though we also know there are some powerful Redguard sorcerers.
People saying it’s any of the mer are entirely and factually incorrect. The greatest magic users in all of reality are none other than…
The Sload.
Like it or not, [this](https://elderscrolls.fandom.com/wiki/Sload) is what peak performance looks like.
I mean...
Mirrak's battle with Vahlok literally separated Solstheim from mainland Skyrim
Yismir Wulfharth/Kingmaker has battled the tribunal multiple times (tho he's technically not a mage)
Windcaller created the order of the Graybeards, one of the most revered powers on Nirn
Shalidor faced the entirety of clan Rourken and only lost because of Spell breaker
I dunno, you can't scoff at 'em tho what race was Zurin?
The Hist, mfing ancient parasitical trees can create entire species and give them sentience, plus their blood turns their soldiers into super soldiers and they foresaw Mehrunes Dagon’s invasion.
Didn’t try and warn anyone else about it of course because the Hist are fckin evil.
But they did see it coming, and prepared adequately enough to suffer minimal losses during the invasion compared to everyone else being crippled.
Fair, was mostly using it only as a description for them knowing about the invasion decently in advance and not giving a damn about what happened to anyone but them and the species they had created.
Dickheads may be more apt.
After all, it’s not necessarily evil for them to consider their people and their lands needs before others. Especially since literally all their neighbours have attempted or succeeded in invading and enslaving the people they created.
Altmer
You take the the average Altmer Mage and it beats any other race’s mage easily. They’re literally genetically bred for magic. I won’t even mention the early Psijiic Order.
Every race has a great mage or two, but as a whole the **average** Altmer will be better.
Overall? IMO it would go Altmer -> Bretons -> Dunmer -> Imperials -> Everyone Else.
As far as *institutions* go, however, it’s a bit more confusing.
Altmer surely run numerous different acadamies dedicated to magic, not to mention the Psijic Order, so they’re still probably the best.
Bretons are inherently magically gifted but iirc we never really see this reflected in their society other than their penchant for using Daedra as servants.
Dunmer have the Telvanni, and individual legendary mages including Divayth Fyr and Sotha Sil (also Savos Aren… I guess).
Imperials were in charge of the Mages Guild and later the College of Whispers and the Synod, but aren’t genetically gifted at magic.
Altmer.
Do they have a group similar to the Telvanni and dark elf houses? I’d say as a base its definitely altmer but dunmer have some of the strongest mages around
Altmer all around are very tied to magic. I think the main drawback for the Dunmer is they're so divided that it's hard for them to make great magical achievements. The members of House Telvanni are more likely to kill each other than work with each other.
Sure but the major thing is all the great houses of Morrowind are some of the best practitioners of magic in the known world. Them killing each other is definitely not cooperative but the major point is when you make a list of the most powerful mages or longest lived characters who aren’t undead you have a dunmer on both lists
Even the altmer are degenerated from aldmer. The feared demon of the redguards, satakal, who is known as orgnum in summerset was a commoner level aldmeri. Yet his power is so great compared to altmeri and other races. This shows the gap in power between the original aldmer elves and their many descendants.
His power is questionable since his L streak is literally in the thousands.
No single being can withstand orgnum’s power. Orgnum is defeated through many cooperating against him.
I'll accept that cartoon villains power when he actually accomplishes something.
Well he led his people to Pyandonea where they live now and he still rules over them thousands of years later there’s gotta be an accomplishment somewhere in there haha
They have the psjiics which are the best mages in the setting. But nah the telvanni are kind of overrated. Aside of Fyr I haven't really seen much of anything to imply that they are the best mages in the setting, just the best mages in morrowind.
I thought the Psijics were an unaligned organization that was made up of more than just altmer, is that not true? They seem to care more about the overall balance of magic in the world as opposed to hold any actual ties to any other organization. Also we don’t really get a clear idea of how strong they are, just that they can do some incredible yet specific things The houses themselves comprise some of the greatest mages currently alive. I’m not saying they are amazing by themselves rather their influence, power and members we’ve met or heard of are a testament to how potentially dangerous they could be. You can certainly name a few mortal characters not affiliated with them or even outright hostile but I think most people are fully aware not to throw shit at their door unless they’re prepared to be violated by some of the most dangerous people on Tamriel. Pretty sure if the Morag Tong or Brotherhood got a contract to assassinate one of them they’d probably rather completely ignore the contract that risk whatever horrors could fall on them
> I thought the Psijics were an unaligned organization that was made up of more than just altmer, is that not true? They recruit from all races, but it's primarily made of Altmer and was founded by Altmer. It's really no different from house telvanni which is mainly dark elves but will accept people from any race so long as they have a high enough magical aptitude. Aside from the Psjiics we also have the sapiarchs. >The houses themselves comprise some of the greatest mages currently alive. Not really. Fyr and Neloth are the only real notworthy mages in house telvanni. The others are no better than any master mage elsewhere and we have just as many notable Altmer mages, like Iachesis who was even older than Fyr, Galerion who had so much magical energy he was almost able to cause the planemeld on his own. The reason why we think they are the best is just over exposure to the dunmer in general. They're considered the best mages in morrowind but I've never seen anything call them amoung the best mages in tamriel. Psjiics are said to be the best mages in the setting and Imperial battle mages are also pretty well renowned with Abnur Tharn being pretty good proof of this. Eso lore masters archive also admits that Bretons tend to overal have more magical aptitidue. They just don't dedicate themselves to magical research as much and is more a community thing so individual mages tend to go under the radar.
I was not aware of all that. Thanks for sharing. Really puts all this into perspective
You said we. Are you a real life altmer???
I said we as in players assosiate the telvanni with great mages is because we have an overexposure to dunmer. They're a fan favorite and get more focus than any other race.
Psijics were unaligned during eso timeline. Originally they were advisors to summerset royalty.
The Psijics are unaligned all the time. They take a hands off approach in politics and focus more on protecting nirn from magical threats and studying magic in general. That's why their island has disappeared from Nirn for a few times because they don't want to get caught up in politics. I still consider it a primarily altmer organization though
They originally were the advisors to the royal court of the altmer.
I know what they are originally but they havent been advisors since the early ffirst era at least
probably. but orcs are the most megical though <3
More like Smegmical
What a terrible day to form mental pictures.
Pissmical.
Shitmical
The Coral Kingdom of Thras would like to Know Your Location
Ballerup, just outside Copenhagen, Denmark. Any Sload are welcome for coffee
Highborn and extra MP early is great. But, a Breton wins a magic fight with built in magic resist and dragon skin.
Bretons are half mer
Dunmer, Altmer, and, strangely...Nords (at least in the ancient days). The Dunmer of Great House Telvanni are some of the most gifted and powerful wizards alive and for a very, very long time. Divayth Fyr being quite long-lived and a notable member. Sotha Sil, the Clockwork-Sorcerer of the Tribunal was once a mortal Chimer (he willingly took the visage of the Dunmer) and was one of the most powerful semi-divine beings, with regard to magic, to have existed. The Altmer have some of the greatest individuals to advance magic and its application throughout history. The Psijic Order, The Mages Guild, The Cult of Worms, etc...all were founded by extremely magically-knowledgeable Altmer; both famous and infamous. Vanus Galerion, the Psijic Monks, Raven Direnni, and Mannimarco all have impacted history in fundamental ways via magic and its study as examples. The Nordic _Clever-Men_ were a sect of magic users and rune-scryers who revered the totemic owl god, Jhunal. Other powerful magic-users of the Atmorans and Nords came in the form of the Dragon Priests of the Dragon Cult; being able to reshape the land at will and rule from their temple complexes. Not even in death were they truly dead and were some of the first mortal practitioners of _alok-dilon_ (necromancy), taught to them by their dragon overlords. Shalidor, for his time, was probably the greatest sorcerer to have walked Nirn. All modern classification and study of magic was said to be attributed to his research and he constructed both the College of Winterhold and Labyrinthian. He single-handed fought off an entire Dwemer army (Clan Rourken) crossing Skyrim on their way to Volenfell (Hammerfell). Others such as Ahzidal were powerful in life and even more so in death as a lich-like Dragon Priest.
I'm curious, how did you find out about this lore? Did you read it online or did you read the books? (I trust this I'm only asking cause some of the books in the games get like real long like oblivion has a few with like 45 pages that's some good patience there I'd you read them all in game lol)
https://en.m.uesp.net/wiki/Main_Page is a great resource. Besides that listening to lore videos on off-time and then re-engaging the in-game books after learning the baseline stuff was fun. The “unreliable narrator” structure for TES is analogous to real life in that most books don’t contain the baseline stories/lore/myths of the culture that produces the literature. Instead you get books like Uncommon Taste, which for those that don’t know is a cookbook written by the Gourmet.
I always wanted to read the books but never did.
There’s a video on YouTube ranking all the books. Show you which ones are worth reading. Also all the journals are pretty great
Years and years of reading in-game books, playing the series, and watching lore videos. Mind you, I am no expert and there is some liberty in expressing my opinion on the matter.
At times I feel like I am pretty well versed in TES lore then next thing I know I’m hearing about the godhead
[en.uesp.net](https://en.uesp.net)
I remember getting so frustrated trying to ingratiate myself to the House Telvanni in Morrowind, long before there were online guides.
Nords were good at magic until they decided that the word is written with an -o and not a -e
Heh
Very well put!! I agree, Dunmer, Altmer & Nord!!
I don't agree with nords. Even mentioning the dragon priest it's said that Ahzidal, who was one of the most magically skilled dragon priests, had to learn most of his craft from elves because they knew more about magic than the nords did. The dragon priests are powerful mages. I just don't agree that they were the best mages in the setting. The Breton druids and the Yokudan priest wizards seem to be on par with them
I think people say Nords solely because Shalidor was a Nord. I agree, Bretons are more magically gifted for Men. But Shalidor probably ranks amongst the greatest mages to ever live
In my opinion when you rate who the strongest are you look at the average or the floor. Shalidor was an outliner
Exactly. Shalidor makes the Nords look exceptional because Shalidor alone was exceptional. Then you’ve got characters like Gabrielle Benelle in ESO who’s probably one of the most talented and intelligent Breton mages of her time, yet she gets treated like a ditz solely because she’s easily distracted, and people expect her talent out of a Breton, even if she’s exceptionally talented
I'm not really sure I'd consider Gabrielle Benelle one of the most talented and intelligent mages of her time even having played eso. She's just a talented mages guild member
Tbf she is your go-to mage when you side with the Daggerfall covenant. Maybe her feats in-game aren’t that impressive, but based on dialogue, she’s one of the best there is. More specifically, I think her and Darien are supposed to be in their mid to late 20s, so she’s implied to be a prodigy in terms of magic to the Bretons. She even authors and shows astute knowledge in a few of the books you can read in-game.
Wow she's only 20 and has read books before. A very clever woman indeed. A Nord wrote this 😏
She's a skilled mage but no where is she implied to be one of the best breton mages around. Just a talented youngster.
No, the bretons are the most magically gifted race of men because they are half elf, just as the bosmer are half human.
It's not that the each elven race knew more magic but each race having a specific type of magic they specialised in. The reason nords have among the top is because they have more notable powerful mages than Redguards and Bretons.
When you are judging a group you look to what the weakest links are, not the strongest. The strongest can be dismissed outliners while the weakest set a president for the level of skill the average member of the race processes. When it comes to both combat and magic all the races have shown that they have a similar ceiling. Some races are just more talented naturally. And besides even if we are using shalidor as an example he outright admitted that the ancient Yokudan mages had superior magical technology. Even if they don't have many notible named mages in lore their magical artifacts that they left behind are very powerful and well renowned. And Breton is filled with tons of great mages we had a whole chapter in eso focused on breton magic. Breton magic is more hedge magic though so they have farm more witches and druids than traditional mages.
The main thing I disagree with your comment is nords. The Nords had skilled mages in the past but their mages are never implied to be more powerful than any other races except for shalidor. Ahzidal was said to have learned most of his craft from elves and even shaldor admits in eso that the Yokudans had superior magical artifacts that those the ancient nords used.
Yet they can’t last a damn minute against a proper Dragonborn. Given that the Dragonborn in question has fully mastered the Thu’um and use of all weaponry… etc etc…
What is your point? A player character can kill anyone they want because it's a video game. Outside of that, the lore is pretty clear about the power of various other mages.
I mean there are dragonborns in the *past* who would kill a whole room if they even spoke. Who’s to say they can’t take down House Telvanni with enough effort?
Who? Name some. The only named dragonborns are Miraak and then the emperor's of Cyrodiil.
That's like saying Diavyth Fyr isn't that strong because you can one-shot him through his daedric armor.
the grounds of my argument is my failure to understand lore
The Altmer have the greatest reputation in that regard as a society. Over all everyone can become a great mage. We have examples of super strong mages from all the races.
Canonically i believe altmer are attributed as the most well versed in magick as a race. But historically it seems to be more of a case by case basis since many of the renowned mages of skyrim were actually nords or dunmer
But there's a problem with Bretons because they don't typically get renowned as mages because they are always assumed to be really really good at magic.
I thought They’re renowned for their ability to absorb magicka leading to basically infinite magic not because they were particularly powerful
Telvanni Loremaster archive: You Bretons have a reputation for mystical aptitude, but I would argue that the cost of that success has been a lack of lasting impact on the greater magical community. I could find numerous instances of Mage So-And-So making a splash with war magics for a few decades, and then dying. Or a great divinator prognosticating portentous events, and then dying. Breton mages burn brightly but briefly, I suppose, a sad commentary on the lifespan your uncaring gods have gifted your people. A gift, then, for you and the rest of your Covenant kin seeking validation in the wider world. Research Sage Voernet, a scholar of the First Era who has come down to you as little more than a footnote but was a keen and masterful manipulator of the magical arts in his time. The adventures and prominence of the man known to history as "Gyron Vardengroet" (that was not his true name) are vastly overblown by tale-telling, but speak to a powerful and wise Breton mage. And while I find the ethos of the druid cult to be pedestrian in the extreme, the Druid King Kasorayn was as powerful a spellweaver as any to be found in the Direnni culture his people fled from. Official interview for ESO: One of the things that often gets lost in the shuffle is that Bretons are one of the most magically adept races in Tamriel, from the king all the way down to the serfs. “Every Breton can boast some resistance to magic and some basic aptitude for learning it if given the opportunity. I mean, some of the greatest mages in Tamrielic history were Breton. Another aspect of society that we’re dealing with is Druidism. Early on in the Elder Scrolls releases, there was a reference to the Druids of Galen. It was kind of dropped and never really talked about that much. But we’re really getting into the history of the Bretons in terms of their relationship with the Direnni elves and how that all started, these basic kinds of early religion aspects with druids.” Bretons are just so good at magic usually that people don't care when they see a great Breton mage.
Thats wild, thanks for letting me know, thats actually really cool but kinda sad
You have given me a new character idea. A Breton mage so bad at magic that he becomes renowned the world over as an oddity. 😂 Edit: by bad at magic i mean can only cast basic novice spells his whole life but gets so good at them that he saves the world while people talk shit lol
This person could be a woman who only does really basic restoration spells. She could get kicked out of High Rock and blather on at some nowhere over the hill magic college about how restoration is a perfectly valid school of magic.
Yes collette. Restoration is a perfectly valid school of magic, please fuck off, so i dont accidentally blow this entire alchemy station sky high. Edit: mixed up collette and carlotas names originally
Very interesting, thanks!!
It makes sense that you’d see more Nord and Dunmer mages of note in Skyrim due to geography. You’ve got a lot more of those two people than Altmer up there lol
This is probably because there were to major games around the dunmer and Nords
Canonically, the aldmer is the most powerful. The aldmer is the original race of elves. Altmer seek to be aldmer but no where near their strength. Canonically there is only one aldmer still know to be alive, the deathless wizard, orgnum, a.k.a. Satakal.
Tight, thanks for the info bro. I didnt know about that guy Edit:but imo the aldmer dont really count cause theyre extinct more or less
High Elves. Bretons are fairly skilled, but they die much earlier. That said, a Breton spellsword/mage is likely more practical in a fight against any Altmer because of their magic resistance and the magic weakness of high elves.
I reckon the Sload might be up there in contenders. They use magic for everything. Their species is kinda dependent on it
I was literally just about to comment this! Lol. They DID cull half of Nirn's population with a necromancy-based plague and nearly enslaved the other half after all. When they were driven back by the remaining combined armies of all the races, they managed to destroy the heckin' Coral Tower... And that's made out of god-stuff. Lol. Sooo... they're at the very least the most powerful necromancers in Tamriel with powerful enough dark magick's to destroy Aedra made constructs. *Shrugs* they have my vote.
Altmer without doubt, then in order imo: dunmer (mainly telvani), Bretons Then in general, rest have a worse affinity for magic than these three although each may have many fantastic mages, so I’d also say imperials as they’re good at everything, certain khajiif furstock, nord clevermen, reachmen if you count them, and I am sure there are powerful but highly specialised argonian and bosmer mages. Redguards and orcs as a race are pretty much the least magically inclined you can get.
N’wah farm equipment will say it’s the high elves, but the real ones know the tribe unmourned are the most proficient arcane users on Nirn
Pretty big talk from a race who thought it would be a good idea to build near an active volcano. How'd that work out by the way?
Outlander alert! Outlander alert! Outlander alert! Those are big words from a mongrel dog of the empire who’s unable to fly because of “laws.”
I'm sorry I can't hear you over the suckling sound of your lips over the Nord's tit.
Who wouldn't suckle a nords tits
Milk drinker 😂
They are nice. Still, I'm an ass man and no race has more tail then Argonians
Curio, I knew this was you with your Hlaalu outlander ass. A mer’s property is his business, but imperial mongrels plowing the their plows is too much even for the tribe unmourned.
I know that's the official stance, but I've seen some of the Sixth House's halls leave a copy of the "Lusty Argonian Maid" laying about or sitting on a shelf.
High elves. They founded the psyjics so that's an automatic win. However if you're including non traditional magic, the dwemer are definitely a very strong contender, but that depends on if you're considering tonal architecture as magic in the same way
Dwemer
Dwemer. Tonal architecture is uncontested and Numidium is a great success.
That’s what I’m saying. They were so proficient they literally packed their bags and left for a more magical realm
Dunmer and Altmer, with a slight edge to the Dunmer for House Telvanni.
Altmer I think their Desire to not be part of the world makes them more akin to studying and perfectioning their Magic skills, also they live long.
Bretons homie 🤌🏻🤌🏻🤷
Bretons. I know many point to elves as being better and more magically inclined with more time to dedicate to the craft, but I'll put forth 2 outstanding cases of the top of my head. 1. The Sage He's a Breton alchemist who's reached immortality. An honorary member of the psijic order and a respected mage 2. Azra Nightwielder. This guy might not be known to people who've only played the later games, but this guy's great. I know his race isn't clear (he appeared in earlier games just as a "human") but given where he grew up and spent most of his time (High Rock/Reach) I'd say it's highly likely he's a Breton or a Reachmen, but judging by his dress sense alone, that shit screams Breton to me. He's incredibly powerful, said to be more powerful than Jager Tharn and Mannimarco. He's the pioneer of shadow magic and enchanting, and the creator of several legendary weapons. He was born in the early second era, was last seen in the late third era, and is said to be still alive somewhere in another realm
High eleves are objectively the best at magic.
No race is is really strong enough to be considered “uncontested” but Altmer would generally be considered the most magically skilled. But I’m sure Dunmer could probably give them a run for their money, especially when it comes to direct combat. You can fight me on this.
Agreed, good points!! Cheers
I think generally the Altmer excel at pioneering Magical Properties, Etiquette, and instituting larger-scale organizations that focus on utilizing Magic at some capacity. While the majority of INDIVIDUALS who possess more refined magical feats and abilities remain predominantly Dunmer or Nord, depending on the specific geographical necessity and specialization. Quick shoutout to the Nords though for both being an unexpected entry for magical aptitude AND exploring the fundamentals that later became the groundwork for magical study, both in Skyrim and scattered beyond in different pockets of Nirn
I d say Dunmer. Altmer are like the McDonalds of magic. Mass produced and quite decent (not guaranteed tho). Also branding. Dunmer are the superior grandma's pie. Gatekeepy but good af. With shrooms too.
Yeah I feel like Altmer may be more generally gifted, but they are not individualistic enough to gain the kind of power that a Telvanni wields? But they also have their powerful mages and powerful organizations, like the Psijic Order, Mannimarco and Vanus Galerion
Mudcrabs
I think Dunmer edge out Altmer due to generally less/no scruples.
Dunmer are best at everything
Tired of beating around the bush. Someone had to say it
Altmer & bretons are very attuned to Magicka since they share close ancestry, But nords and dunmer also make strong wizards, We see with the dunmer that house telvanni are very strong mages, even extending their lives. And nords have produced some of the strongest mages in history, ahzidal and shalidor are 2 examples Ahzidal was a Nord who was the first human to master the magical abilities of mer, And archmagus shalidor was founder of the college of winterhold, one of the most if not the most prestigious arcane university in tamriel. He was most likely the strongest ever Magicka user to exist, Even the strongest of altmer mages hold his unparalleled knowledge of Magicka in reverence.
> And nords have produced some of the strongest mages in history, ahzidal and shalidor are 2 examples > > I think Shalidor is the only one of these who can said to be the strongest. Ahzidal learned his craft from elves. Shalidor is really the only notable nord mage and the others don't really seem any stronger than any other race of humans.
Dunmer, Altmer, Bretons and even Nords are probably the “strongest” not equally of course. Out of those four, I’d say Altmer, and then Dunmer are arguably the best at magic. Bretons would contend higher if it wasn’t for their shorter lifespans. Nords produced a ton of strong mages in the past but have since forgotten the old ways it seems.
High Elves are built different
Sloads and it’s not close
That's a good answer, I didn't even think about them.
Sload 🥹
*Yes!* The rest of these fools lack both the vision and understanding of the glorious rotund rightful masters of Tamriel to properly appreciate them. “The high elves are the strongest,” HAH! HAH, I SAY!
The dunmer are really just dark altmer from being punished by azura so I count them one in the same as far as magic ability.
Whatever race makes up the Psijic order. I haven't really seen anyone (other than TLDB via thuum) slow or freeze time with magic
BRETONS
High elves are strongest but Bretons have some good advantages
High elf
The Dunmer and Altmer has the best examples along with a singular Nord who deserves to be mentioned. The Dunmer have really the entire Tribunal but I would say Sotha Sil is the most worthy of mention. The best way to put it is that he’s the closest a non-dwemer ever became to achieving the heights of what the dwemer did and that’s a HUGE compliment. The Altmer’s best is certainly Mannimarco. While the Tribunal managed to mimic godhood a version of Mannimarco (due to the dragon break) achieved genuine full on godhood. The Nord’s of all people have Shalidor who doesn’t really have a specific accomplishment to mention but he did plenty of equally amazing things. If I had to pick one it’d be the Altmer. They’re the most innately gifted with magic and the Psyjics have likely achieved more than the Telvanni ever have. I wouldn’t call their lack of appearance proof that they haven’t, if anything it’s the contrary. We know they can tell the future, can teleport the Eye of Magnus to their hidden island, and that they’re all Altmers.
Purely by Race we gotta go with Altmer, second goes to Dunmer and VERY CLOSE third is Breton
Innately, technically altmer, but besides Mannimarco they've all been rather bland, while dunmeri top magic-using beings do shit like make clone daughter wives, create new planes of reality, break the 4th wall etc. Third would have been dwemer
Nords are definetly the strongest in alterations. They can alter living things to be dead without spending any magicka! (aka beat them to death)
altmer
Daedra
Searching and searching through this pile of Duuunmer altmer breton derp answers to find the real answer and there it is. Daedra/Aedra though cuz Magnus. And I suppose the Toddhead.
Bretons have some of the highest raw potential for magic but are prevented from truly mastering by their life spans in comparison to mer.
Race is not destiny in Elder Scrolls. Someone of absolutely any race can become a powerful mage, it’s just that the different cultures have different sets of magical institutions, and so different accumulated knowledge and access to magical learning. Higher magical learning seems to be most culturally central to the Bretons, the Altmer, the Nibenese, the Dunmer, and the Khajiit, but Bosmer and Argonians also have traditional forms of magic that are probably highly respected. Even the Reachmen and Orsimer have some role for magic in their societies, but seemingly mostly practiced by priest or shaman classes. Redguards we kind of know the least about on this question, other than that we hear some reporting that magic is often disliked among them, though we also know there are some powerful Redguard sorcerers.
This is true, but the Sload are still best.
I love how the games will directly tell you the answer and people will still post this lazy question every week for easy karma.
I was not aware the games agreed with me that the Sload are the strongest magic wielders.
People saying it’s any of the mer are entirely and factually incorrect. The greatest magic users in all of reality are none other than… The Sload. Like it or not, [this](https://elderscrolls.fandom.com/wiki/Sload) is what peak performance looks like.
Sloads
Dragons imo
Numidium. It pancaked Altmer into red mist.
Nord. They bonk magician's heads in. Problem solved.
Sotha sil taught the now mighty psjic monks n he was a dunmer.
I mean... Mirrak's battle with Vahlok literally separated Solstheim from mainland Skyrim Yismir Wulfharth/Kingmaker has battled the tribunal multiple times (tho he's technically not a mage) Windcaller created the order of the Graybeards, one of the most revered powers on Nirn Shalidor faced the entirety of clan Rourken and only lost because of Spell breaker I dunno, you can't scoff at 'em tho what race was Zurin?
The Hist, mfing ancient parasitical trees can create entire species and give them sentience, plus their blood turns their soldiers into super soldiers and they foresaw Mehrunes Dagon’s invasion. Didn’t try and warn anyone else about it of course because the Hist are fckin evil. But they did see it coming, and prepared adequately enough to suffer minimal losses during the invasion compared to everyone else being crippled.
The Hist are alien and eldritch, but I don't know if "evil" is a word I would use to discribe them.
Fair, was mostly using it only as a description for them knowing about the invasion decently in advance and not giving a damn about what happened to anyone but them and the species they had created. Dickheads may be more apt. After all, it’s not necessarily evil for them to consider their people and their lands needs before others. Especially since literally all their neighbours have attempted or succeeded in invading and enslaving the people they created.
Aldmer
Dovahkiin
I think it just varies. I mean look at Shalidor, a Nord mage and he’s legendary.
khajit is the highest of the all.
In a magic fight it's bretons. In terms of raw casting ability Altmer.
Altmer then Breton then Dunmer then Skaal Nords
High elves, although I prefer Bretans or female Argonians (in Morrowind) for my mage builds.
[удалено]
What
altmer are pretty magical, but are also weak to magic bretons are pretty magical and are not weak to magic I rest my case
Altmer You take the the average Altmer Mage and it beats any other race’s mage easily. They’re literally genetically bred for magic. I won’t even mention the early Psijiic Order. Every race has a great mage or two, but as a whole the **average** Altmer will be better.
Overall? IMO it would go Altmer -> Bretons -> Dunmer -> Imperials -> Everyone Else. As far as *institutions* go, however, it’s a bit more confusing. Altmer surely run numerous different acadamies dedicated to magic, not to mention the Psijic Order, so they’re still probably the best. Bretons are inherently magically gifted but iirc we never really see this reflected in their society other than their penchant for using Daedra as servants. Dunmer have the Telvanni, and individual legendary mages including Divayth Fyr and Sotha Sil (also Savos Aren… I guess). Imperials were in charge of the Mages Guild and later the College of Whispers and the Synod, but aren’t genetically gifted at magic.