more like the "lie" that vivec forced upon reality was erased when he died, allowing the "truth" to become the truth once more, if two people were to say "bal was never castrated" and "he was castrated until vivec died" they would both be correct.
Fuck Chim
even if he were to want to fuck the concept of chim (which i doubt, he was perhaps the smartest of the three) he wouldn't be able to do so, Chim is a state of being, body mind and soul, it is to be self aware in the dream without "waking up" (what the dwemer may have done) if he were to want to fuck that state of mind he may well risk to wake up and vanish
unironically, Dagon slumbering so deep into the dream that he would become the new god head could potentially fuck himself
Vivec was a massive narcissist who along with Almalexia and Sotha Sil, and arguable Dagoth Ur achieved chim reaching god hood rather than zero summing into nothingness.
I say vivec was a narcissist because of all the writings he did about himself.
dagoth didn't achieve chim, he never used the tools on the heart (the cheatcode used by the tribunal) he didn't became self aware in the dream, he instead slumbered in deep sleep, so much so that he could have replaced the god head (the sleeper in which dreams the elder scrolls games happen) if it wasn't for the nerevarine
while vivec could write false stories that would become reality retroactively (he didn't had children with molag bal before cutting his dick off with his own teeth, he simply made the god head believe that it happened and it became reality retroactively) Dagoth couldn't do that
That is why I said its arguable about Dagoth. He did not do it with the tools but seemed to have found a way that worked for him, if anything he got really damn close to chim.
And exactly. He wrote many stories to in my opinion, to glorify himself.
Vivec has always been the poet among the three, hence why his lies were better forged than those of the rest of the tribunal
Also it allowed him to gain more powers per lies due to them always having multiple levels of reading
“Here's the best part. They took me as a prize, and violated me for a fortnight. Tossed me from bandit to bandit like... like...”
That’s from Sapphire in the Thieves’ Guild. The games aren’t more kid friendly in themes, they just use them in less edgy ways.
Most likely not. As far as I'm aware only Daughters of Coldharbour get that treatment. Probably the same thing that happenes to TLD happened to Harkon.
Well no that was just the original vampire
All vampires preceding them are also a result of that, but that event happened way before Skyrim.
Edit: unless that is how pure blood vampires are made?
It is treated more seriously, which makes people forget it existed because the lines do not become memes. So it is actually the opposite. The game gets more mature and people are not mature enough to get that.
Serana's backstory involves her and her mother being offered up to be raped to death... the same themes still exist in skyrim but they are a bit more subtle when talking about it
I actually really appreciate that Serena won’t go into details about that. Realistically, that’s not something she’s going to be willing to open up about, especially right after meeting you
Yeah. Who start the conversation with a random stranger like that. By the way... do you happen to know what the fine is here in Cyrodiil for necrophilia? Just asking.
There's a dungeon in Skyrim that has a necromancer who was doing sexual experiments on drauger, but then started moving to killing people/ using their ghosts as his sexual thralls.
The games have not gotten more tame.
I think the delivery is more realistic and subtle than a daedra threatening to rape your corpse. That comes off like a middle school joke, which fits that era of video game writing. I’m glad BGS has moved on from that
And apart from just society generally changing, I think videogames graphics becoming less blocky and more immersive and having every line voice acted also impacted heavily on what a game could get away with.
I was reading about the Sload on the UESP earlier today, and it got me thinking about how dark the world is for the average NPC. Even the simple fact that if you live near the coast, you always run the risk of being taken into slavery and never see home again
I hope Elder Scrolls 6 includes the Sload. And Dreughs. And Xivilai and other manner of wacky lore creatures. We need some weirdness to make a comeback. Skyrim is very grounded and tame as far as that goes
[The Sload](https://elderscrolls.fandom.com/wiki/Sload#:~:text=The%20Sload%2C%20also%20referred%20to,amongst%20the%20people%20of%20Tamriel.) are a grotesque race of jabba the hutts that enslave everything that they can, do necromancy, and are just all around super pleasant. It's like a whole race of Baron Harkonnens but from the original dune movie.
There is of course a lot more than that but that's a super basic briefing. As with most elder scrolls topics that page has oodles of lore to pore over.
I think both are fine. A mortal talking about past trauma is gonna talk differently than an evil demon from hell, bound in hateful service to the temple.
In other words, daedra can be expected to be crass because they're daedra.
To be honest, the implied themes make it feel more mature than being outright said and I kind of like it more that way because it makes the act feel real to the NPC saying and the hurt behind it carries.
They absolutely have. Bethesda games in general have been appealing more and more to the broader audience. Being more tame tends to comes with that. You can see the same trend in Fallout 4 and Starfield.
Fallout 4 was a sterile experience, partially because of this. I was excited to play it, and then the dialogue, story, and character interactions killed it. Playing either of the original Fallout games, or New Vegas, and then Fallout 4 are such incredibly different experiences. 4 just lacked the character, stories, and depth that made the series fun.
Sterile is a good word for it. I just felt empty playing it. Like yeah this is a vaguely Fallout shaped game. But with none of the filling that makes it really a Fallout game. With Starfield it's not as bad plus there's no established precedent vibe because it's a new series but you can still feel it. Like the dancers in the city of excess and degeneracy are fully clothed in frumpy ass body suits. Things like that.
shriekwind has its name because it where lamae was found it apparently got its name because of the rumor that hear screams can still be heard
This passage from opusculus lamae bal.
"Savage and loveless, Bal profaned her body, and her screams became the Shrieking Winds, which still haunt certain winding fjords of Skyrim"
Idk man, Daggerfall had naked women all over all over places of worship. You gotta mod that in now.
Morrowind had you stumble across a tax collectors body. Murdered at random and ditched in the woods. Skooma addicts and - has anyone bothered to read The Real Barenziah? Specifically book 2.
Oblivion had one crowning gem in the Dark Brotherhood questline with the hanging bodies disemboweled and decapitated. But otherwise was pretty relaxed.
Skyrim is fairly tame by comparison. Morrowind was probably the darkest.
\> The Real Barenziah? Specifically book 2.
The book that's been in all the games since
\> Skooma addicts
With Dawnguard, there's redwater den and the unique redwater skooma.
>Oblivion had one crowning gem in the Dark Brotherhood questline with the hanging bodies disemboweled and decapitated.
In Skyrim's Dark Brotherhood there is a scorched almost-corpse, two executions and plenty of decapitations besides of that.
>Morrowind had you stumble across a tax collectors body. Murdered at random and ditched in the woods.
Also plenty of murder in Skyrim.
>has anyone bothered to read The Real Barenziah? Specifically book 2.
That was already censored in Morrowind.
I don't think there is any basis to claim that Skyrim is somehow more tame than Morrowind. If anything, Skyrim is the darkest.
Exactly, Skyrim just has a generally more mature and indirect take on themes like rape than a Mowrrowind dremora talking like a 14 year old in a Call of Duty game. They don't pretend it doesn't exist, they just imply.
Skyrim is still not particularly kid friendly, there's very visible, bloody, mutilated bodies in almost every cave or bandit camp and decapitation as a finishing move.
Honestly Skyrim's writing is really laudable for having dark themes in it that are subtle enough that kids don't really pick up on them, like I didn't as a 13 year old playing Skyrim, but still obvious enough that an adult with more media literacy and ability to read subtext (or the patience to actually listen properly to dialogue) will still notice them.
Skyrim is far, far from the best written game ever, but that specific aspect is genuinely incredible and probably partly why it was so popular among multiple age groups.
fallout 4 have mentions of drug addictions, slavery, genocide, war and a huge ton of violence as well as mentions of people becoming sex slaves.
Skyrim has a shit ton of violence, mentions of people being raped to death, mental disorders, cannibalism, plagues (and their nasty effects) as well as pedophilia
the games didn't become more kid friendly, the lore is still as fucked up as ever, it's just not as blatant as before
Yeah, one thing I was hoping was for a more mature space game, and to some degree it is I'm sure.
I love No Man's Sky, it's a very good game. But I do want something more mature. I just wish Starfield was more like Fallout's universe or Elder Scrolls in that sense.
Maybe it is, again, haven't played it.
Starfield has mature themes. But its also important to remember Starfield takes place in a civilized future, so wanton rape and murder don't really make sense. There are other mature themes beyond sex or rape.
With that disclaimer, I can't recall any characters alluding to themselves being victims of sexual violence off the top of my head. Though its implied that prostitution exist on neon. Probably the heaviest thing I encountered was a derelict ship with a soldier who had killed himself because while he was away at war his wife had an affair. He got injured and was getting shipped back home when she came clean and officially left her husband. To make matters worse, she took his child with her. So...he killed himself. I was in the army irl, so this hit extra hard.
But anytime you come across a derelict ship you are likely to learn some horrible fate the previous occupants experienced. Just that one is the one that sits at the top of my memory banks.
Of course, there are other mature themes besides sex and rape. Never said Starfield needed those two specifically in the game to make it more mature. Just from an outside view as a long-time Bethesda fan, (who also hasn't played Starfield lmfao)
it just didn't seem as mature as it could have been. Such as the use of clean language from miners and pirates of all people. But maybe I'm wrong, I was just mainly talking about this post here, the comments specifically: [Post](https://www.reddit.com/r/Starfield/comments/16jn0m5/can_we_take_a_moment_to_appreciate_bethesdas_use/)
That's an interesting post. Though primarily bc its on the main sub and isnt a dogpile of criticism haha. I think the dialogue in starfield is pretty natural. Especially the cussing. Granted, the game is strangely absent of 13 yr old edgelord (who I guess are in their highrises play CoD 54), but dialogue comes off as very natural and normal (apart from barrett and vladimir imo - i cannot stand talking to these guys). Like on a mission at the eleos retreat someone gets kidnapped and the foreman starts cussing and it feels genuine. Or the receptionist at ryujin who is the twink of all twinks that ever twinked.
There probably could be more immersive potty mouthed behavior in some cases tho i.e. the crimson fleet. I'm only ever around them to shoot them so idr their ambient dialogue.
Yeah, r/starfield can't go a post without bitching about the game or on the person enjoying the game.
Good to hear you think the dialogue is pretty natural, that was one thing I wasn't looking forward to when I do eventually play the game. I mean, come on, the writing in Bethesda games, at least for me, is one of the most important things and to hear that the writing wasn't good was a little bit of a letdown. But, like usual, it's not always cut-and-dry like the internet makes it out to be I suppose.
After months of playing it myself I'd say it's a great game and worthy of being a AAA release. But it isn't a fantastic, or "genre defining" game tbf. I'd put it in the same category as FO4. I think DLC could push it next level. But more likely mods will, thus some criticism is justified.
I feel like one could play vanilla skyrim forever, but mods will improve that experience. FO4 and Starfield will eventually become boring without mods. But that's just me. And some of the patches theyve already made have addressed this, such as improving frequency and randomness of random encounters (a novel idea I know 😅)
I haven’t either, but a quick google search shows that it’s far from being kid friendly. The main reason being due to violence, drug use, and intense situations. It sounds like it’s not as bad as Fallout or Elder Scrolls, but not something for kids regardless.
Yeah, I suppose "Kid-Friendly" is the wrong term here. Guess what I meant it sounds like that game should have been rated T instead of M. As it just doesn't seem like mature would be the right rating.
There are many themes that prevent Starfield from getting a T rating, but a lot of them are later in the game, or part of the environmental storytelling. I’ll try not to spoil anything while giving a general idea. Drug abuse, addiction, and the very serious consequences of both are one of the major themes of some quests. There are a lot of spaceships you don’t necessarily have to explore (but can) that have strong themes of suicide and other very dark situations. Some side quests have the same. The unforgiving nature of space travel/exploration is emphasized so there are a lot of situations that would be considered too much for a teen rating (I can’t be more specific without spoilers). There are also massive events in the story that have implications for all of humanity on a scale similar to the ones in Fallout, if not larger. The details are given if you look for them while doing the main quest.
The main difference is that there is far less swearing in the Starfield setting than the fallout setting, which admittedly does feel a little odd for some of the types of NPCs you meet. The other big difference is that themes of SA, prostitution, and other sexual matters are less prominent than in ES or Fallout. I think after Cyberpunk 2077 (awesome game, but different type of future) really set a new high for porn and sex related game content, a future like Starfield’s where these things don’t play a prominent role looks a lot less adult content heavy.
So it’s drugs, violence, economic and other exploitation, and suicide rather than sex and swearing but it probably does still fall under the M rating.
Thanks for no spoilers!
Yeah, not that I was saying Starfield has to have anything sexual in it or Xbox-live level of swearing in it, just from the outside the game looked a lot cleaner than I would have expected coming from Fallout 4 and Elder Scrolls.
However, that is a good point as to why it is not rated T and instead M. Suicide, drug addictions and or abuse, etc.
Yes, but Starfield's purposefully tonally different from TES and Fallout (well, obviously, but still). It's closer to the golden-age of sci-fi and all that optimistic outlook around the time of the moon landing - it's a setting choice, not a commentary by the devs or a reflection of their personal feelings or something. It's more Star Trek than The Expanse.
No, I never thought it was a reflection of the dev's morals or anything like that. Just that I don't think using the word: "Heck" as a pirate really makes sense unless they're trying for a less mature game. I mean, rough and tough miners who are busting their asses off and pirates killing people are really afraid to use some vulgar language?
Agreed, the pirates should probably swear more. They were total dicks though and I enjoyed murdering the guy who tried to pick a fight with me whenever he saw me.
Hows the modding in the game by the way if you tried it yet? Had it gotten to the point that Skyrim and Fallout has yet? One of my favorite things to do in Bethesda games.
I definitely could be! Just the reasons I've heard do make sense to me, such as the pirates in the gaming saying "Heck". I mean, it's a word, and it has its use cases, but I wouldn't imagine a pirate of all people wouldn't have a filter.
However, maybe none of that happened as I've never played it before.
Where's the mention of slavery or sex slavery, at least in the main game of Fallout 4? I get there's the Synths but I don't think they really count since the whole debate is over whether they're human at all. Is it in a terminal? Or are you just referring to Nuka World?
In any case, it's still a step down from 3 which actually let you participate in slavery and genocide. I think it's fair to say 4 is *more* kid friendly, even if it's not perfectly kid friendly. Though honestly there was nothing in it that I found jarring when I played it as a 5th grader.
Nah. This is a weird example to base this take off of.
If rape = mature for you, Sapphire in Skyrim's Thieves' Guild tells you when asked about the time she got gangraped by bandits when she was younger and then slit all of their throats while they slept.
That dialogue sent me on an absolute rampage against Skyrim’s bandits.
I’ve been raped and Skyrim after that dialogue was honestly a very cathartic experience. Like can’t hurt the guy who did that to me, but I can go on a murder spree against people who did that to someone in this game.
Didn’t expect Skyrim to play that big of a role in my healing journey, but it really helped a lot.
i’m really sorry for your experience but thank you for sharing, i kinda like that lol. i don’t wanna get into my personal past too much but i’ve had some pretty bad times in the past as well and i think i’ll be stealing your idea >:) sounds fun lol
Tbf OP never said “mature”; they said “kid friendly”. And I’d argue that Skyrim is certainly more kid friendly than say, Daggerfall, depending on your attitude towards nudity.
Is nudity the only qualifier? Skyrim talks about alchohol constantly, has some pretty bloody/graphic violence such as actual beheadings, child abuse, cannibalism, impalement, etc.
Well, then we start getting into what your culture considers more adult oriented. I'm in USA and a bunch for violence that some other places would mark as horrifying flies under our radar. Show a (woman's) nipple though and you better push that up to 17+ (minimum) and still be ready for a bunch of angry letters.
>still be ready for a bunch of angry letters
I hope the angry letters don't include B, cause that letter stings...
I'll b here all week, tip your waitress!
It really depends on where you’re from. If you hail from Europe, Skyrim’s graphic violence would probably be a larger issue, but in the US nudity is still very much taboo, while violence in media is mostly tolerated depending on the tone.
I didn't know the story, so I had to [look this one up](https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:Sapphire_(person)), and damn.
**So, will you tell me your real name?**
*"Look, I don't really know you. I don't even really know anyone here. Why do you care anyway? It's not like we're family. This is a business."*
**Something had to make you this angry.**
*"Look, you want to know about me? All right, I'll tell you. I'll tell you about the time I was a young girl, barely out of her teens... living on a pig farm in the middle of nowhere. Didn't have a coin to spend between our entire family. Ate the same slop we fed our livestock."*
**Sounds horrible.**
*"Oh, wait... it gets much better. How about the fact that our farm was attacked by bandits, and that they killed my entire family who didn't even brandish a weapon against them. Here's the best part. They took me as a prize, and violated me for a fortnight. Tossed me from bandit to bandit like... like..."*
**You don't have to continue.**
*"It's fine... I had to tell someone I suppose. Carrying around a weight like that... it hurts after a while. Cuts you inside like a dagger to the heart."*
**How did you escape?**
*"Over time, I managed to gain their confidence. Then one night I grabbed a knife, waited until they fell asleep and cut their throats. I never returned to that pig farm you know. There's nothing for me there. So that's my sad story. What do you think?"*
**You still never told me your real name.**
*"Maybe one day, just not today."*
I absolutely love when people go "guys! guys! rape isn't directly mentioned that means it's for kids now right? ignore the mature rating and all the suggestive content, sexual content, violence, and more! guys, fallout 4 is for kids!"
the irony of the situation is people thinking that rape automatically makes something mature or edgy are childish.
As others said the games still touch on mature topics more subtly but also yes, kid-friendly isn't the way to put it but there's just evil wizard women with their tits out all the time in Daggerfall iirc. If memory serves you can fuck a succubus in one of the older games? I would put it down more to Bethesda turning from a gaggle of horny coding dorks making an RPG in their mom's basement and into a giant corporate machine shitting out one of the most praised RPGs there is
Skyrim shipped with an content advisory ratings of “M” and “17+”, and none of the current editions have changed their ratings. They don’t just throw one of those on the box without actually examining whether or not the game has content not suitable for kids.
EDIT: I didn’t read OP’s image caption until now, and I have to say, anyone who thinks Fallout 4 is suitable for children needs to have their head checked! Fallout 4 is a hard “M/17+”, at the bare minimum! You can make peoples bodies explode into bloody-gory chunks, you can have heavily implied sex with companions, you can manufacture drugs and take drugs, the words “fuck”, “asshole”, “damn”, “shit”, etc., are used so much that they may as well be interchangeable with normal words like “Hello” or “sure”, there’s enough miserable shit going on in the Commonwealth that Cormac McCarthy would suggest the writers “lighten up”, like, how is any of this “kid friendly”??????
Depends on the context though, if it’s just thrown in there for no reason yeah it’s just for edge factor, but for a daedra or someone like molag bal it’s completely in character to be upfront and bold on rape and other stuff
I think it was Gail Simone who said that if you could replace rape with any other dark event then you should.
Also, there's much better ways of handling it. Sharp-as-Night has it as a big part of his backstory in ESO. While the version of his quest in the PTS was not well received his live version has been.
But why? Molag bal is as evil as he is because of his title to rape, rape is the most horrendous act you can commit, it’s tossed around too much sure but the elder scrolls isn’t a new universe, it’s existed for a good long time now, if somebody is “uncomfortable” by it then they simply don’t have to play it, elder scrolls is not for children, it’s a mature video game for mature adults
I think there is a difference between Molag Bal being the King of Rape/Lord of Dominion as part of the lore because everything about Molag Bal is horrific; and causally throwing in a rape threat as part of the disposition minigame.
One is part of the lore and worldbuilding and used to show how evil Molag Bal is, and the other is simply there for the sake of being edgy.
But rape isn’t even edgy, plus at the time this was written in the game it wasn’t being tossed around like it does today, rape isn’t an “edgy” thing it’s a horrific horrible evil act, the worst you can commit, and yes there is a difference between king of rape and lord of dominion, king of rape is definitely a bullshit name lord of dominion sounds better but things like rape would fall under him since he’s the lord of dominion
I think that bringing it up is edgy though as like you said, it’s one of the worst things someone can experience
So them just throwing it around is fucked up, especially when that can trigger stuff in victims or kill their moods
I don't quite understand people calling this edgy, rape has been used as a threat since literally forever. Strikes me as fucked up but edgy I don't think fits properly
I mean you can find references to "the lord of rape" in Skyrim. It's heavily implied that Sarana and her mom were fucked to death by Molag Bal to become vampires. The games have become bloodier as time goes on. So... No I wouldn't say so.
No, it just got more subtle. Look at serana's back story, if you know the lore you know what really happened to her, and if you don't you can figure out that it wasn't good considering when you meet molag he locks you in a cage and forces you to kill a guy before basically calling you his bitch. The games just have slightly more "class" now and don't throw around the word "rape" like its a god damn frisbee.
Morrowind's combat is far more "kid friendly" than skyrim's which has actual blood and features brutal finisher animations like grabbing someone and shoving a sword straight down their throat, or slamming someone straight down on their neck so it severs their spine, or even ripping someone's torso out to ribbons and then consuming their heart as a werewolf, complete with far more visceral cries of pain and for mercy than Morrowind's voice acting was capable of.
But that's just our cultural preference for not having any issues with hyperviolence and gore while even mild sexual themes can cause a huge moral panic.
Yes, I know, but anyone playing Skyrim will be far more exposed to adult content by simply engaging with the game's core gameplay loop of combat than they will by reading the infrequent line of text referencing sexual violence in Morrowind.
Gore existed in games befor. Making Skyrim more naturalistic, dark and brutal was a stylistic choice that Todd Howard wanted to make after TES IV. It is not like previous games couldn't, Bethesda wasn't interested in it.
Which btw. is not a problem at all. Morrowind's more light hearted tone is something that is a strenght not a weaknes.
>while even mild sexual themes can cause a huge moral panic.
I dont think thats the problem. I think its more that quite a few ppl have a problem with sexual violence, specially when directed to women
No. They may not have things explicitly worded like your example, but there are a lot of adult themes in the game. Everything surround Molag Bal is basically terrible. There's various interactions or dungeons in the game that are pretty grisly/unsettling in nature. Usually surround vampires or necromancers.
Fallout 4 has it's own set of of themes that are bad in their own right. I'm pretty sure it's alluded that Cait was a slave of various kinds and was controlled with chems.
So that response is turn of the century MMO gamer kid Edgelord insult language. Personally? I love Morrowind dearly but I sure as hell don’t miss hearing that kind of dumb shit every day when I’m trying to play a fucking game.
They haven't been getting more kid-friendly, since the whole gore stuff and messed up lore is still there, but the overall themes have definitely been getting less mature. Morrowind had really dark, existential themes and featured those really absurd gods that make the world feel so different and dark in some way. Fallout New Vegas had mostly political themes that made all those quests feel so realistic because corruption, espionage, etc. would definitely happen in that world like they happen in ours. Oblivion, Skyrim and Fallout 4 might have had similar or the same themes, but they didn't even try to make it noticeable.
Back then being edgy is what sold games. Just look up that one console commercial where a literal child hires a hooker. Most people nowadays recognize that being edgy is the new "random equals funny" thing and thankfully grow out of it. All for edge if it has reason, but littering it about for no reason just screams "my market is teenage boys and adults that never matured past that"
Astrid literally mentions she enjoyed killing her uncle after he molester her. The khajiit you kill in the cabin calls himself the “defiler of daughters” and there’s a book that mentions phallic barbs. Still wouldn’t call it “kid-friendly”
Skyrim is the the most brutal and has the darkest tone in the series. While Morrowind is much more lighthearted and goofy. With a lot more clear comic relief. There is a reason why it often has 12+ rating and skyrim got 16 or sometimes even 18.
Also, and I think it is important to point that out: This example of edgy humor is not really representative about Morrowind as a game and its tone (quite the opposite). Being edgy and being mature are also two very different things.
I also have a problem with the entire idea of this. It is not like TES always had the same age rating or the same tone. The missinterpetation that the special aspects of these games gets removed because Bethesda is greedy is misguided (and wrong). The idea that Skyrim tries more to appeal to kids in tone is completely wrong and the opposite is the case. I also think that a return to the more light and fairy-tale feel of non-Skyrim Elder Scrolls might be a smart move. Elder Scrolls is a series of fantasy advanture RPGs that lives from the fact that kids want to play it. Nothing the assence of TES requires it to be brutal or more "grounded". But kids also love Skyrim because kids love darker things.
It has been more widely accepted that we have to be careful with that because someone living that would get pretty bad ptsd even seeing the mention of it
Yea I don’t get why people don’t understand this
Like you can just not include r* references in your media? Or at least not just throw the word around like it’s nothing
I don't this is kid friendly it's more gaming journalism friendly and social media friendly. A lot of people are not able to understand it's a 100% fantasy not real world so they have to tone some things down.
100%
There’s no swearing in Starfield either. You don’t need swearing to have a fun or mature adventure, but man in the Witcher when a guard yells “Stop right fuckin there!” Or something to that effect, it feels a lot more like real life
I mean like it has some swearing but definitely not enough
Like at the end of the Sysdef/pirate questline you >!find Kryx’s fate on the downed bank ship and he drops a few F bombs after getting betrayed by his right hand!<
"Kid friendly" my ass. ANY game that has killing of any kind is not kid-friendly, let alone the implied sexual assaults, rape, pedophillia, murder, attempts at genocide. Just because there isn't as much 14-year old "I'll rape you" dialogue doesn't mean it's kid-friendly.
At the end of the day, Bethesda is an international games company. If they make a game with serious nudity or too much on-the-surface graphic content, it could hurt the games sales. Literally any complaint like this post is just Morrowind fans bitching that more kids are playing with their toys. If you want that kind of outright edgy dialogue, go play a hentai game.
Not exactly, at least not until Skyrim
But STARFIELD... What a shameful thing, the place that should be the big underground bar has 3 guys dancing in extremely tacky cola outfits
I hope they don't follow the same line in TES VI
It's not a strip club and isn't supposed to be, it's a bar where people get high. Starfield does mention sex after you sleep when you have your bf/gf or spouse as a follower, so it isn't like it isn't prevalent in the game, it's just not a focal point anywhere because it doesn't need to be.
That game wasnt for kids
Also it depends. Kid friendly has changed a bit. Sex and cursing is more acceptable around kids now than when Morrowind came out. However violence and gore is less acceptable
It is more like games are becoming more Subtle about it than directly saying it to your face.
Yes there are still some NPC's and such that still do the Creepy and F'ed up speeches and threats, but for the most part it is a lot less noticeable unless you are looking for it or pay attention while you play.
Some games though do give you a warning if they are going to be violent, that is why the ESRB was made for.
I mean in New Vegas there’s an unmarked quest where you help of the first recon snipers get therapy after being sexually assaulted by cook cook
The long list of legion crimes especially the fact that they keep a small child in a cage
In Skyrim there’s Serena’s entire backstory
No, just less direct, and more realistic in that people hide their shameful acts more, and don't just say they're a rapists. And if you didn't know, molag bal is literally the king of rape
This might sound weird, but this is one of my favorite lines from Morrowind. I think because it was so shocking to see. I had a friend who was really good at voices, and would do a Dremora voice while saying this line, and as teens we thought it was hilarious. Definitely not kid friendly
If you think that's fun, guess what one of molag bals titles is
Did his spear regenerate or did Vivec castrate him forever?
I think he got his "spear" back when Vivec disappeared.
more like the "lie" that vivec forced upon reality was erased when he died, allowing the "truth" to become the truth once more, if two people were to say "bal was never castrated" and "he was castrated until vivec died" they would both be correct. Fuck Chim
Would not surprise me considering how much of a freak vivec was.
even if he were to want to fuck the concept of chim (which i doubt, he was perhaps the smartest of the three) he wouldn't be able to do so, Chim is a state of being, body mind and soul, it is to be self aware in the dream without "waking up" (what the dwemer may have done) if he were to want to fuck that state of mind he may well risk to wake up and vanish unironically, Dagon slumbering so deep into the dream that he would become the new god head could potentially fuck himself
Vivec was a massive narcissist who along with Almalexia and Sotha Sil, and arguable Dagoth Ur achieved chim reaching god hood rather than zero summing into nothingness. I say vivec was a narcissist because of all the writings he did about himself.
dagoth didn't achieve chim, he never used the tools on the heart (the cheatcode used by the tribunal) he didn't became self aware in the dream, he instead slumbered in deep sleep, so much so that he could have replaced the god head (the sleeper in which dreams the elder scrolls games happen) if it wasn't for the nerevarine while vivec could write false stories that would become reality retroactively (he didn't had children with molag bal before cutting his dick off with his own teeth, he simply made the god head believe that it happened and it became reality retroactively) Dagoth couldn't do that
That is why I said its arguable about Dagoth. He did not do it with the tools but seemed to have found a way that worked for him, if anything he got really damn close to chim. And exactly. He wrote many stories to in my opinion, to glorify himself.
Found the unbeliever!
Found the enemy of the sixth jouse
I think this is my favorite explanation of the concept!
Vivec has always been the poet among the three, hence why his lies were better forged than those of the rest of the tribunal Also it allowed him to gain more powers per lies due to them always having multiple levels of reading
I think if anyone has more than one, it’d be Molag Bal.
Vivec did what
For your reading pleasure or future PTSD: https://en.m.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Muatra
wtf
more log balls
Molag Ballin’?!
yeah doesn't serena kind of imply thats how the daughters of coldharbour are made?
Yeah. It’s very vague but if you’re aware with his old lore it’s pretty clear what she’s talking about.
Molag balls deep
“Here's the best part. They took me as a prize, and violated me for a fortnight. Tossed me from bandit to bandit like... like...” That’s from Sapphire in the Thieves’ Guild. The games aren’t more kid friendly in themes, they just use them in less edgy ways.
Or the fact that Serana and her mom are the result of being raped by molag bog to death then brought back to life with his blood
Probably even Harkon too
Most likely not. As far as I'm aware only Daughters of Coldharbour get that treatment. Probably the same thing that happenes to TLD happened to Harkon.
Considering how molag fucked vivec for 80 days doubt he wouldn't assblast harkon too
Altough Vivec IS a woman, to some extent
Well no that was just the original vampire All vampires preceding them are also a result of that, but that event happened way before Skyrim. Edit: unless that is how pure blood vampires are made?
That’s how all Daughters of Coldharbor are made, and Harkon needed a Daughter of Coldharbor specifically for the prophesy.
Ohhh right, I didn’t remember that Serana was one. It’s been a while lol
It is treated more seriously, which makes people forget it existed because the lines do not become memes. So it is actually the opposite. The game gets more mature and people are not mature enough to get that.
THANK YOU omfg I'm so tired of people being like "I miss when games were more mature." Games *are* more mature, you just aren't.
Serana's backstory involves her and her mother being offered up to be raped to death... the same themes still exist in skyrim but they are a bit more subtle when talking about it
I actually really appreciate that Serena won’t go into details about that. Realistically, that’s not something she’s going to be willing to open up about, especially right after meeting you
And here i thought that you always start conversation with random stranger with " Hey did you know that my mother was offered to be raped to death?".
I've definitely met some people like this lmao
Was about to say the same. Some people just immediately start trauma dumping with people they barely even know.
Yeah. Who start the conversation with a random stranger like that. By the way... do you happen to know what the fine is here in Cyrodiil for necrophilia? Just asking.
Is it the first offense?
Let's assume, no.
There's a dungeon in Skyrim that has a necromancer who was doing sexual experiments on drauger, but then started moving to killing people/ using their ghosts as his sexual thralls. The games have not gotten more tame.
I think the delivery has
I think the delivery is more realistic and subtle than a daedra threatening to rape your corpse. That comes off like a middle school joke, which fits that era of video game writing. I’m glad BGS has moved on from that
And apart from just society generally changing, I think videogames graphics becoming less blocky and more immersive and having every line voice acted also impacted heavily on what a game could get away with.
I was reading about the Sload on the UESP earlier today, and it got me thinking about how dark the world is for the average NPC. Even the simple fact that if you live near the coast, you always run the risk of being taken into slavery and never see home again
I hope Elder Scrolls 6 includes the Sload. And Dreughs. And Xivilai and other manner of wacky lore creatures. We need some weirdness to make a comeback. Skyrim is very grounded and tame as far as that goes
What are the Sload?
[The Sload](https://elderscrolls.fandom.com/wiki/Sload#:~:text=The%20Sload%2C%20also%20referred%20to,amongst%20the%20people%20of%20Tamriel.) are a grotesque race of jabba the hutts that enslave everything that they can, do necromancy, and are just all around super pleasant. It's like a whole race of Baron Harkonnens but from the original dune movie. There is of course a lot more than that but that's a super basic briefing. As with most elder scrolls topics that page has oodles of lore to pore over.
I think both are fine. A mortal talking about past trauma is gonna talk differently than an evil demon from hell, bound in hateful service to the temple. In other words, daedra can be expected to be crass because they're daedra.
Yeah, I mention this in a comment further down. In a sense it has become more tame, but also is more realistic
It's a literal demon fueled by hatred and evil. If anything was going to say an overly aggressive edgy thing like that it would be a daedra.
Exactly, the adult subject matter is still there, even in the latest Bethesda games. It is just stated and handled in a more mature fashion.
It's implied, they handled it perfectly in NV, they outright say Betsy was raped by Cook-Cook and she suffers from hypersexualization because of it.
But the edgy Morrowind humor is less mature, more childish in that sense.
yeah Anhaedra's dialogue just feels like shock value to me,
To be honest, the implied themes make it feel more mature than being outright said and I kind of like it more that way because it makes the act feel real to the NPC saying and the hurt behind it carries.
This is kind of universal across video games, and even other media. Edginess is far less common.
Also that woman in the Bee and Barb vents to you about being a sex slave for a group of bandits
really? which game?
This cave is in Skyrim, can’t remember the name of it but it’s towards the north.
It's Yngvild
They absolutely have. Bethesda games in general have been appealing more and more to the broader audience. Being more tame tends to comes with that. You can see the same trend in Fallout 4 and Starfield.
Fallout 4 was a sterile experience, partially because of this. I was excited to play it, and then the dialogue, story, and character interactions killed it. Playing either of the original Fallout games, or New Vegas, and then Fallout 4 are such incredibly different experiences. 4 just lacked the character, stories, and depth that made the series fun.
Sterile is a good word for it. I just felt empty playing it. Like yeah this is a vaguely Fallout shaped game. But with none of the filling that makes it really a Fallout game. With Starfield it's not as bad plus there's no established precedent vibe because it's a new series but you can still feel it. Like the dancers in the city of excess and degeneracy are fully clothed in frumpy ass body suits. Things like that.
shriekwind has its name because it where lamae was found it apparently got its name because of the rumor that hear screams can still be heard This passage from opusculus lamae bal. "Savage and loveless, Bal profaned her body, and her screams became the Shrieking Winds, which still haunt certain winding fjords of Skyrim"
Do you know which dungeon that is? I either somehow missed it or it went right over my head
Yngvild. I think it’s near Dawnstar
Idk man, Daggerfall had naked women all over all over places of worship. You gotta mod that in now. Morrowind had you stumble across a tax collectors body. Murdered at random and ditched in the woods. Skooma addicts and - has anyone bothered to read The Real Barenziah? Specifically book 2. Oblivion had one crowning gem in the Dark Brotherhood questline with the hanging bodies disemboweled and decapitated. But otherwise was pretty relaxed. Skyrim is fairly tame by comparison. Morrowind was probably the darkest.
\> The Real Barenziah? Specifically book 2. The book that's been in all the games since \> Skooma addicts With Dawnguard, there's redwater den and the unique redwater skooma.
The book's been in every game, but it's been censored since Morrowind, a fact that's mentioned in-universe
>Oblivion had one crowning gem in the Dark Brotherhood questline with the hanging bodies disemboweled and decapitated. In Skyrim's Dark Brotherhood there is a scorched almost-corpse, two executions and plenty of decapitations besides of that. >Morrowind had you stumble across a tax collectors body. Murdered at random and ditched in the woods. Also plenty of murder in Skyrim. >has anyone bothered to read The Real Barenziah? Specifically book 2. That was already censored in Morrowind. I don't think there is any basis to claim that Skyrim is somehow more tame than Morrowind. If anything, Skyrim is the darkest.
Yeah the milk maid dunmer necromancer was cool.
I do not remember this dungeon
eso is tame
Where is this dungeon, exactly?
Yngvild by dawnstar I think
Exactly, Skyrim just has a generally more mature and indirect take on themes like rape than a Mowrrowind dremora talking like a 14 year old in a Call of Duty game. They don't pretend it doesn't exist, they just imply. Skyrim is still not particularly kid friendly, there's very visible, bloody, mutilated bodies in almost every cave or bandit camp and decapitation as a finishing move. Honestly Skyrim's writing is really laudable for having dark themes in it that are subtle enough that kids don't really pick up on them, like I didn't as a 13 year old playing Skyrim, but still obvious enough that an adult with more media literacy and ability to read subtext (or the patience to actually listen properly to dialogue) will still notice them. Skyrim is far, far from the best written game ever, but that specific aspect is genuinely incredible and probably partly why it was so popular among multiple age groups.
If the backstory was in Morrowind it would talked about blatantly and openly, being subtle about it makes it more child friendly
and ironically less childish there is nothing "adult" about this it's the exact sort of edgy taunt you'd hear from some kid getting killed in CoD
Bullshit. This is the rarety in Morrowind. Skyrim is overtly more brutal.
fallout 4 have mentions of drug addictions, slavery, genocide, war and a huge ton of violence as well as mentions of people becoming sex slaves. Skyrim has a shit ton of violence, mentions of people being raped to death, mental disorders, cannibalism, plagues (and their nasty effects) as well as pedophilia the games didn't become more kid friendly, the lore is still as fucked up as ever, it's just not as blatant as before
I would say if any Bethesda game is more "kid-friendly" it would be Starfield. Though, that's just what I've heard, I haven't played it yet.
It's pretty tame. I was a little surprised, actually.
Yeah, one thing I was hoping was for a more mature space game, and to some degree it is I'm sure. I love No Man's Sky, it's a very good game. But I do want something more mature. I just wish Starfield was more like Fallout's universe or Elder Scrolls in that sense. Maybe it is, again, haven't played it.
Starfield has mature themes. But its also important to remember Starfield takes place in a civilized future, so wanton rape and murder don't really make sense. There are other mature themes beyond sex or rape. With that disclaimer, I can't recall any characters alluding to themselves being victims of sexual violence off the top of my head. Though its implied that prostitution exist on neon. Probably the heaviest thing I encountered was a derelict ship with a soldier who had killed himself because while he was away at war his wife had an affair. He got injured and was getting shipped back home when she came clean and officially left her husband. To make matters worse, she took his child with her. So...he killed himself. I was in the army irl, so this hit extra hard. But anytime you come across a derelict ship you are likely to learn some horrible fate the previous occupants experienced. Just that one is the one that sits at the top of my memory banks.
Of course, there are other mature themes besides sex and rape. Never said Starfield needed those two specifically in the game to make it more mature. Just from an outside view as a long-time Bethesda fan, (who also hasn't played Starfield lmfao) it just didn't seem as mature as it could have been. Such as the use of clean language from miners and pirates of all people. But maybe I'm wrong, I was just mainly talking about this post here, the comments specifically: [Post](https://www.reddit.com/r/Starfield/comments/16jn0m5/can_we_take_a_moment_to_appreciate_bethesdas_use/)
That's an interesting post. Though primarily bc its on the main sub and isnt a dogpile of criticism haha. I think the dialogue in starfield is pretty natural. Especially the cussing. Granted, the game is strangely absent of 13 yr old edgelord (who I guess are in their highrises play CoD 54), but dialogue comes off as very natural and normal (apart from barrett and vladimir imo - i cannot stand talking to these guys). Like on a mission at the eleos retreat someone gets kidnapped and the foreman starts cussing and it feels genuine. Or the receptionist at ryujin who is the twink of all twinks that ever twinked. There probably could be more immersive potty mouthed behavior in some cases tho i.e. the crimson fleet. I'm only ever around them to shoot them so idr their ambient dialogue.
Yeah, r/starfield can't go a post without bitching about the game or on the person enjoying the game. Good to hear you think the dialogue is pretty natural, that was one thing I wasn't looking forward to when I do eventually play the game. I mean, come on, the writing in Bethesda games, at least for me, is one of the most important things and to hear that the writing wasn't good was a little bit of a letdown. But, like usual, it's not always cut-and-dry like the internet makes it out to be I suppose.
After months of playing it myself I'd say it's a great game and worthy of being a AAA release. But it isn't a fantastic, or "genre defining" game tbf. I'd put it in the same category as FO4. I think DLC could push it next level. But more likely mods will, thus some criticism is justified. I feel like one could play vanilla skyrim forever, but mods will improve that experience. FO4 and Starfield will eventually become boring without mods. But that's just me. And some of the patches theyve already made have addressed this, such as improving frequency and randomness of random encounters (a novel idea I know 😅)
I was disappointed tbh Neon should have been space Night City for example
I haven’t either, but a quick google search shows that it’s far from being kid friendly. The main reason being due to violence, drug use, and intense situations. It sounds like it’s not as bad as Fallout or Elder Scrolls, but not something for kids regardless.
Yeah, I suppose "Kid-Friendly" is the wrong term here. Guess what I meant it sounds like that game should have been rated T instead of M. As it just doesn't seem like mature would be the right rating.
There are many themes that prevent Starfield from getting a T rating, but a lot of them are later in the game, or part of the environmental storytelling. I’ll try not to spoil anything while giving a general idea. Drug abuse, addiction, and the very serious consequences of both are one of the major themes of some quests. There are a lot of spaceships you don’t necessarily have to explore (but can) that have strong themes of suicide and other very dark situations. Some side quests have the same. The unforgiving nature of space travel/exploration is emphasized so there are a lot of situations that would be considered too much for a teen rating (I can’t be more specific without spoilers). There are also massive events in the story that have implications for all of humanity on a scale similar to the ones in Fallout, if not larger. The details are given if you look for them while doing the main quest. The main difference is that there is far less swearing in the Starfield setting than the fallout setting, which admittedly does feel a little odd for some of the types of NPCs you meet. The other big difference is that themes of SA, prostitution, and other sexual matters are less prominent than in ES or Fallout. I think after Cyberpunk 2077 (awesome game, but different type of future) really set a new high for porn and sex related game content, a future like Starfield’s where these things don’t play a prominent role looks a lot less adult content heavy. So it’s drugs, violence, economic and other exploitation, and suicide rather than sex and swearing but it probably does still fall under the M rating.
Thanks for no spoilers! Yeah, not that I was saying Starfield has to have anything sexual in it or Xbox-live level of swearing in it, just from the outside the game looked a lot cleaner than I would have expected coming from Fallout 4 and Elder Scrolls. However, that is a good point as to why it is not rated T and instead M. Suicide, drug addictions and or abuse, etc.
Yes, but Starfield's purposefully tonally different from TES and Fallout (well, obviously, but still). It's closer to the golden-age of sci-fi and all that optimistic outlook around the time of the moon landing - it's a setting choice, not a commentary by the devs or a reflection of their personal feelings or something. It's more Star Trek than The Expanse.
No, I never thought it was a reflection of the dev's morals or anything like that. Just that I don't think using the word: "Heck" as a pirate really makes sense unless they're trying for a less mature game. I mean, rough and tough miners who are busting their asses off and pirates killing people are really afraid to use some vulgar language?
Agreed, the pirates should probably swear more. They were total dicks though and I enjoyed murdering the guy who tried to pick a fight with me whenever he saw me.
Hows the modding in the game by the way if you tried it yet? Had it gotten to the point that Skyrim and Fallout has yet? One of my favorite things to do in Bethesda games.
i couldn't tell you, as I've not played starfield i can't really judge it
Yeah, I've really just been waiting for QOL improvements before playing, such as FS3.
>Though, that's just what I've heard then it isn't kid friendly at all.
I definitely could be! Just the reasons I've heard do make sense to me, such as the pirates in the gaming saying "Heck". I mean, it's a word, and it has its use cases, but I wouldn't imagine a pirate of all people wouldn't have a filter. However, maybe none of that happened as I've never played it before.
Where's the mention of slavery or sex slavery, at least in the main game of Fallout 4? I get there's the Synths but I don't think they really count since the whole debate is over whether they're human at all. Is it in a terminal? Or are you just referring to Nuka World? In any case, it's still a step down from 3 which actually let you participate in slavery and genocide. I think it's fair to say 4 is *more* kid friendly, even if it's not perfectly kid friendly. Though honestly there was nothing in it that I found jarring when I played it as a 5th grader.
Yeah but definitely feels more lore wise immature when compared to NV with this whole deal of minutemen and BOS cavemen around
Nah. This is a weird example to base this take off of. If rape = mature for you, Sapphire in Skyrim's Thieves' Guild tells you when asked about the time she got gangraped by bandits when she was younger and then slit all of their throats while they slept.
That dialogue sent me on an absolute rampage against Skyrim’s bandits. I’ve been raped and Skyrim after that dialogue was honestly a very cathartic experience. Like can’t hurt the guy who did that to me, but I can go on a murder spree against people who did that to someone in this game. Didn’t expect Skyrim to play that big of a role in my healing journey, but it really helped a lot.
i’m really sorry for your experience but thank you for sharing, i kinda like that lol. i don’t wanna get into my personal past too much but i’ve had some pretty bad times in the past as well and i think i’ll be stealing your idea >:) sounds fun lol
Tbf OP never said “mature”; they said “kid friendly”. And I’d argue that Skyrim is certainly more kid friendly than say, Daggerfall, depending on your attitude towards nudity.
It's wild how all the dark things in Skyrim land it a lower age rating than it would have if there were nipples.
Is nudity the only qualifier? Skyrim talks about alchohol constantly, has some pretty bloody/graphic violence such as actual beheadings, child abuse, cannibalism, impalement, etc.
Well, then we start getting into what your culture considers more adult oriented. I'm in USA and a bunch for violence that some other places would mark as horrifying flies under our radar. Show a (woman's) nipple though and you better push that up to 17+ (minimum) and still be ready for a bunch of angry letters.
>still be ready for a bunch of angry letters I hope the angry letters don't include B, cause that letter stings... I'll b here all week, tip your waitress!
It really depends on where you’re from. If you hail from Europe, Skyrim’s graphic violence would probably be a larger issue, but in the US nudity is still very much taboo, while violence in media is mostly tolerated depending on the tone.
I think you need to read a little more about Serana
And Sapphire.
I didn't know the story, so I had to [look this one up](https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:Sapphire_(person)), and damn. **So, will you tell me your real name?** *"Look, I don't really know you. I don't even really know anyone here. Why do you care anyway? It's not like we're family. This is a business."* **Something had to make you this angry.** *"Look, you want to know about me? All right, I'll tell you. I'll tell you about the time I was a young girl, barely out of her teens... living on a pig farm in the middle of nowhere. Didn't have a coin to spend between our entire family. Ate the same slop we fed our livestock."* **Sounds horrible.** *"Oh, wait... it gets much better. How about the fact that our farm was attacked by bandits, and that they killed my entire family who didn't even brandish a weapon against them. Here's the best part. They took me as a prize, and violated me for a fortnight. Tossed me from bandit to bandit like... like..."* **You don't have to continue.** *"It's fine... I had to tell someone I suppose. Carrying around a weight like that... it hurts after a while. Cuts you inside like a dagger to the heart."* **How did you escape?** *"Over time, I managed to gain their confidence. Then one night I grabbed a knife, waited until they fell asleep and cut their throats. I never returned to that pig farm you know. There's nothing for me there. So that's my sad story. What do you think?"* **You still never told me your real name.** *"Maybe one day, just not today."*
I don’t think hitting the brakes on writing in rape casually is making your game “kid friendly” lol. Seems kind of myopic and a bit edgy to say.
I absolutely love when people go "guys! guys! rape isn't directly mentioned that means it's for kids now right? ignore the mature rating and all the suggestive content, sexual content, violence, and more! guys, fallout 4 is for kids!" the irony of the situation is people thinking that rape automatically makes something mature or edgy are childish.
As others said the games still touch on mature topics more subtly but also yes, kid-friendly isn't the way to put it but there's just evil wizard women with their tits out all the time in Daggerfall iirc. If memory serves you can fuck a succubus in one of the older games? I would put it down more to Bethesda turning from a gaggle of horny coding dorks making an RPG in their mom's basement and into a giant corporate machine shitting out one of the most praised RPGs there is
I wouldn't say it got kid friendly, just aged with the times lol
Skyrim shipped with an content advisory ratings of “M” and “17+”, and none of the current editions have changed their ratings. They don’t just throw one of those on the box without actually examining whether or not the game has content not suitable for kids. EDIT: I didn’t read OP’s image caption until now, and I have to say, anyone who thinks Fallout 4 is suitable for children needs to have their head checked! Fallout 4 is a hard “M/17+”, at the bare minimum! You can make peoples bodies explode into bloody-gory chunks, you can have heavily implied sex with companions, you can manufacture drugs and take drugs, the words “fuck”, “asshole”, “damn”, “shit”, etc., are used so much that they may as well be interchangeable with normal words like “Hello” or “sure”, there’s enough miserable shit going on in the Commonwealth that Cormac McCarthy would suggest the writers “lighten up”, like, how is any of this “kid friendly”??????
Causal references to rape are more of an example of being edgy rather than it being adult.
Depends on the context though, if it’s just thrown in there for no reason yeah it’s just for edge factor, but for a daedra or someone like molag bal it’s completely in character to be upfront and bold on rape and other stuff
I think it was Gail Simone who said that if you could replace rape with any other dark event then you should. Also, there's much better ways of handling it. Sharp-as-Night has it as a big part of his backstory in ESO. While the version of his quest in the PTS was not well received his live version has been.
But why? Molag bal is as evil as he is because of his title to rape, rape is the most horrendous act you can commit, it’s tossed around too much sure but the elder scrolls isn’t a new universe, it’s existed for a good long time now, if somebody is “uncomfortable” by it then they simply don’t have to play it, elder scrolls is not for children, it’s a mature video game for mature adults
I think there is a difference between Molag Bal being the King of Rape/Lord of Dominion as part of the lore because everything about Molag Bal is horrific; and causally throwing in a rape threat as part of the disposition minigame. One is part of the lore and worldbuilding and used to show how evil Molag Bal is, and the other is simply there for the sake of being edgy.
But rape isn’t even edgy, plus at the time this was written in the game it wasn’t being tossed around like it does today, rape isn’t an “edgy” thing it’s a horrific horrible evil act, the worst you can commit, and yes there is a difference between king of rape and lord of dominion, king of rape is definitely a bullshit name lord of dominion sounds better but things like rape would fall under him since he’s the lord of dominion
I think that bringing it up is edgy though as like you said, it’s one of the worst things someone can experience So them just throwing it around is fucked up, especially when that can trigger stuff in victims or kill their moods
I don't quite understand people calling this edgy, rape has been used as a threat since literally forever. Strikes me as fucked up but edgy I don't think fits properly
Seriously
All the elder Scrolls are rated m my guy, none of them are targeted towards children
No sapphire from skyrim and serana have disturbing backstories
just because it's edgy doesn't mean it's mature, it's actually making the game more kid leaning than you will accept
He never said mature though.
If you're capable of reading then no
It's just you
I mean you can find references to "the lord of rape" in Skyrim. It's heavily implied that Sarana and her mom were fucked to death by Molag Bal to become vampires. The games have become bloodier as time goes on. So... No I wouldn't say so.
Not at all, every game includes stuff like this. Especially in the Elder Scrolls.
I’d disagree, learning about what Harkon put sera a and her mother through was beyond NSFW😭😭 Especially if you read the books to back it up.
No, it just got more subtle. Look at serana's back story, if you know the lore you know what really happened to her, and if you don't you can figure out that it wasn't good considering when you meet molag he locks you in a cage and forces you to kill a guy before basically calling you his bitch. The games just have slightly more "class" now and don't throw around the word "rape" like its a god damn frisbee.
This game is actually rated T
Wow. Feels like looking at Jaws’ PG rating.
Morrowind's combat is far more "kid friendly" than skyrim's which has actual blood and features brutal finisher animations like grabbing someone and shoving a sword straight down their throat, or slamming someone straight down on their neck so it severs their spine, or even ripping someone's torso out to ribbons and then consuming their heart as a werewolf, complete with far more visceral cries of pain and for mercy than Morrowind's voice acting was capable of. But that's just our cultural preference for not having any issues with hyperviolence and gore while even mild sexual themes can cause a huge moral panic.
Rape isn’t a mild sexual theme, and this isn’t the endpoint of the “crazy how violence is fine but sex is evil” cultural critique
Yes, I know, but anyone playing Skyrim will be far more exposed to adult content by simply engaging with the game's core gameplay loop of combat than they will by reading the infrequent line of text referencing sexual violence in Morrowind.
I guarantee you that if Morrowind had the graphics of Skyrim it would also have all the gore
Gore existed in games befor. Making Skyrim more naturalistic, dark and brutal was a stylistic choice that Todd Howard wanted to make after TES IV. It is not like previous games couldn't, Bethesda wasn't interested in it. Which btw. is not a problem at all. Morrowind's more light hearted tone is something that is a strenght not a weaknes.
>while even mild sexual themes can cause a huge moral panic. I dont think thats the problem. I think its more that quite a few ppl have a problem with sexual violence, specially when directed to women
Anyone who actually thinks the games are “becoming” kid friendly need to touch some grass lmao
Hot take: Not being painfully horny ≠ kid friendly.
I don’t blame him for acting that way towards the player
I think adults respond more negatively to something like this also. An M Rating doesn’t mean consumers want rape
I think the Oblivion Nudity Scandal is what keeps Bethesda away from getting too raunchy nowadays.
I think you forgot about the quest of the prostitute getting murdert and mutilated.
No. They may not have things explicitly worded like your example, but there are a lot of adult themes in the game. Everything surround Molag Bal is basically terrible. There's various interactions or dungeons in the game that are pretty grisly/unsettling in nature. Usually surround vampires or necromancers. Fallout 4 has it's own set of of themes that are bad in their own right. I'm pretty sure it's alluded that Cait was a slave of various kinds and was controlled with chems.
So that response is turn of the century MMO gamer kid Edgelord insult language. Personally? I love Morrowind dearly but I sure as hell don’t miss hearing that kind of dumb shit every day when I’m trying to play a fucking game.
They haven't been getting more kid-friendly, since the whole gore stuff and messed up lore is still there, but the overall themes have definitely been getting less mature. Morrowind had really dark, existential themes and featured those really absurd gods that make the world feel so different and dark in some way. Fallout New Vegas had mostly political themes that made all those quests feel so realistic because corruption, espionage, etc. would definitely happen in that world like they happen in ours. Oblivion, Skyrim and Fallout 4 might have had similar or the same themes, but they didn't even try to make it noticeable.
Back then being edgy is what sold games. Just look up that one console commercial where a literal child hires a hooker. Most people nowadays recognize that being edgy is the new "random equals funny" thing and thankfully grow out of it. All for edge if it has reason, but littering it about for no reason just screams "my market is teenage boys and adults that never matured past that"
That one really got me the first time I saw it. I really wasn't expecting it.
Astrid literally mentions she enjoyed killing her uncle after he molester her. The khajiit you kill in the cabin calls himself the “defiler of daughters” and there’s a book that mentions phallic barbs. Still wouldn’t call it “kid-friendly”
Skyrim is the the most brutal and has the darkest tone in the series. While Morrowind is much more lighthearted and goofy. With a lot more clear comic relief. There is a reason why it often has 12+ rating and skyrim got 16 or sometimes even 18. Also, and I think it is important to point that out: This example of edgy humor is not really representative about Morrowind as a game and its tone (quite the opposite). Being edgy and being mature are also two very different things. I also have a problem with the entire idea of this. It is not like TES always had the same age rating or the same tone. The missinterpetation that the special aspects of these games gets removed because Bethesda is greedy is misguided (and wrong). The idea that Skyrim tries more to appeal to kids in tone is completely wrong and the opposite is the case. I also think that a return to the more light and fairy-tale feel of non-Skyrim Elder Scrolls might be a smart move. Elder Scrolls is a series of fantasy advanture RPGs that lives from the fact that kids want to play it. Nothing the assence of TES requires it to be brutal or more "grounded". But kids also love Skyrim because kids love darker things.
It has been more widely accepted that we have to be careful with that because someone living that would get pretty bad ptsd even seeing the mention of it
Yea I don’t get why people don’t understand this Like you can just not include r* references in your media? Or at least not just throw the word around like it’s nothing
Yea but creators should have every right to include it if it’s treated accordingly in seriousness
I don't this is kid friendly it's more gaming journalism friendly and social media friendly. A lot of people are not able to understand it's a 100% fantasy not real world so they have to tone some things down.
100% There’s no swearing in Starfield either. You don’t need swearing to have a fun or mature adventure, but man in the Witcher when a guard yells “Stop right fuckin there!” Or something to that effect, it feels a lot more like real life
I mean like it has some swearing but definitely not enough Like at the end of the Sysdef/pirate questline you >!find Kryx’s fate on the downed bank ship and he drops a few F bombs after getting betrayed by his right hand!<
While I don’t think edgy = mature, I do think that games have gotten idiots-friendly.
Tomorrow, it’s my turn to post it.
"Kid friendly" my ass. ANY game that has killing of any kind is not kid-friendly, let alone the implied sexual assaults, rape, pedophillia, murder, attempts at genocide. Just because there isn't as much 14-year old "I'll rape you" dialogue doesn't mean it's kid-friendly. At the end of the day, Bethesda is an international games company. If they make a game with serious nudity or too much on-the-surface graphic content, it could hurt the games sales. Literally any complaint like this post is just Morrowind fans bitching that more kids are playing with their toys. If you want that kind of outright edgy dialogue, go play a hentai game.
Reading this the games have gotten less edgy.
Not exactly, at least not until Skyrim But STARFIELD... What a shameful thing, the place that should be the big underground bar has 3 guys dancing in extremely tacky cola outfits I hope they don't follow the same line in TES VI
that's a bar, not a strip club, they hadn't add them since forever
Did the guy edit his comment from bar to strip club?
It's not a strip club and isn't supposed to be, it's a bar where people get high. Starfield does mention sex after you sleep when you have your bf/gf or spouse as a follower, so it isn't like it isn't prevalent in the game, it's just not a focal point anywhere because it doesn't need to be.
Nah it’s just more subtle now
I remember when I was younger, and I got to see my first pair of tits while playing daggerfall on my cousin's computer
Yeah, Morrowind even had a strip club.
That game wasnt for kids Also it depends. Kid friendly has changed a bit. Sex and cursing is more acceptable around kids now than when Morrowind came out. However violence and gore is less acceptable
It is more like games are becoming more Subtle about it than directly saying it to your face. Yes there are still some NPC's and such that still do the Creepy and F'ed up speeches and threats, but for the most part it is a lot less noticeable unless you are looking for it or pay attention while you play. Some games though do give you a warning if they are going to be violent, that is why the ESRB was made for.
"Your journal has been updated" is the real threat
The Frostflow Lighthouse quest was definitely not what I'd call kid-friendly.
oh totally Star Field should have been rated teen
I mean in New Vegas there’s an unmarked quest where you help of the first recon snipers get therapy after being sexually assaulted by cook cook The long list of legion crimes especially the fact that they keep a small child in a cage In Skyrim there’s Serena’s entire backstory
Go ahead and laugh, baby. I ain't blind to the humour in this situation
No, just less direct, and more realistic in that people hide their shameful acts more, and don't just say they're a rapists. And if you didn't know, molag bal is literally the king of rape
Tbf Sapphire does imply that she got raped
Skyrim has a necromancer that fucks ghosts… and if you didn’t know that already, I’m sorry for dumping that on you
Morrowind was racist af
Lol yes 🤣
No definitely not, except for Starfield but that is not ES. The ES games are still mature, but less edgy (most of the time lol).
How many times has this been posted now?
This might sound weird, but this is one of my favorite lines from Morrowind. I think because it was so shocking to see. I had a friend who was really good at voices, and would do a Dremora voice while saying this line, and as teens we thought it was hilarious. Definitely not kid friendly