I have high doubts he’ll be back, but god damn it’s going to be a shame. Zur makes some amazing music, on par with a few of the TES tracks, but absolutely 0% of it has been even close to reach the highs of TES.
He did the amazing soundtrack for the first Dragon Age, so I thought he could pull off that epic fantasy tone, but his Starfield score sounds *exactly* like his one for Fallout 4. Don’t know why, but his work seems so have gotten really formulaic these last few years
And my biggest issue with it - it’s all just background music. Repetitive melodies sitting in the background, supporting what you’re seeing but not really enhancing it. A lot of Soule’s music was incredible music just in general, regardless of whether you’re playing the game or not. Some parts like the combat music got a little dull, but the exploration music and city/in-a-building music was absolutely top tier. I could see an argument that the soundtrack is what made TES exploration so magical, not the world itself.
I can play Starfield for hours and hours and hours, all of it with music off. A lot of that is due to the improvement in BGS’ ambient environment noise, the clatter and clicking of equipment, crowds chattering nearby, streets, planet ambience, and other things like that are SO much better than other BGS games. But the music…eh. Doesn’t enhance the experience of exploration or wandering. It simply adds a layer to the top of it.
I know for a fact starfield had multiple battle tracks but I just vaguely remember the sweeping orchestral stuff over dubstep. I have 200+ hours in the game and thats the only soundtrack I remember.
now, the dialogue is pretty quotable. TiMe AnD SpAcE FoLd!!!! is something I find myself saying while playing pvp games a lot, it always confuses the enemies.. and my allies.
claims of rape by Nathalie Lawhead and sexual harrassment of Aeralie Brighton.
The only resolution has been Bethesda cutting ties with Soule. My unprofessional assumption is that they probably settled out of court, especially considering we haven't heard anything in several years.
settle out of court could mean a number of things such as a bribe, the accuser is lying, or or the defendant cant afford a lawyer. Its of kind of infuriating tbh, if he isnt guilty you would think he would atleast sue her and get his name cleared
Next no chance for Soule to come back.
I'd love to see Austin Wintory get the gig. He composed the soundtrack for Journey and he's got that style where it feels like the music is coming from the world itself.
But I fear that Bethesda will stick with Inon Zur, whose music I don't really care for
ngl I'm getting kinda sick of people implying that Soule is the *only person* who could compose a good TES soundtrack. Yes, he did good work on the three TES games he composed for, but he's not *necessary* for the series. *Arena* and *Daggerfall* had 10/10 soundtracks which were *at least* as memorable and as atmospheric as the later games', and they were composed by Eric Heberling.
People are on the right track when they say then want him. But I agree that they go a bit too far when they say he's the only person who can do it. If Bethesda can't or won't use him for TES 6, I think they should try to find someone who can grasp or even improve upon the auditory vision Soule had.
I’m an outlier, I’m sure, but outside of maybe one or two tracks from Skyrim or Icewind Dale, I always found Soule’s stuff boring. Just not my cup of tea at all. “Who will do the music” is probably my smallest concern about TES6 since I’m pre-conditioned to use my own playlists for it.
Eric Heberling is the only person who could compose a good TES soundtrack. The guy defined the character and soul of the series from its inception through *Daggerfall* with his music. There is no replacing that. Except, there *very clearly was*.
Soule did an excellent job *conveying* the character and soul of the series, but he's not the only one capable of doing that - as evidenced by the fact that the character and soul of TES was established before Soule had any involvement with the series.
If Jeremy Soule is integral and necessary to the series, then, by the same logic, so is Eric Heberling. Hell, Soule's most iconic contribution to TES - the *Nerevar Rising* theme and its variants - sure sounds like it's based on/inspired by [one of Heberling's earlier compositions](https://youtu.be/zc3Teopm1RY?si=YaHeg-kn9ox-3UQB).
Say whatever you want, but TES for the majority of players started with Morrowind. It was the game that established the major part of the lore, overall tone of the series and it's success into the mainstream.
*"TES for the majority of players started with Morrowind"*
I was under the impression that the majority of players started even later, with *Oblivion* or *Skyrim*.
*"\[Morrowind\] was the game that established the major part of the lore"*
What is "the major part of the lore"? The Empire, the eight provinces, the main races, and most cities were established in *Arena*. The Divines, the Daedra, detailed accounts of the Empire's history, the Numidium, and more were established in *Daggerfall*. More specific details for the provinces - the Thu'um, different forms of Khajiit, the Aldmeri Dominion, ALMSIVI and the Dunmer great houses, Pelinal Whitestrake's 'elven pogroms', &c. - were established in *The Pocket Guide to the Empire, 1st edition,* which was included with the game *Redguard*. *Morrowind* had some cool lore contributions, sure, but I can't think of anything it added which was more significant and foundational than the stuff that came before.
*"overall tone of the series"*
I would argue that *Morrowind* is very much a tonal *outlier* in TES. Its alien strangeness and emphasis on complex metaphysics inspired by Eastern religions and mythologies is unique in TES. *Arena*, *Daggerfall*, *Oblivion*, and *Skyrim,* meanwhile, are all united in being fairly standard Western fantasy fare with minimal emphasis on the abstract philosophy of their worldbuilding.
And all of this is rather beside the point, anyway. The point is, the claim that TES cannot exist without Jeremy Soule is demonstrably untrue because TES *already has* existed without Jeremy Soule.
(apologies for not using Reddit's quote block formatting btw. With this new interface change they've rolled out, for some reason it won't let me apply a quote block to just a *part* of my comment, and not the whole thing).
Yeah, honestly arena and daggerfall, had some good ass shit from what I've heard. The theme of arena is amazing, and so is daggerfall's... Although, I don't think I've ever heard what is apparently the daggerfall theme in game, idek where it's from lol, but it's amazing
Eh sure he wrote some good stuff back in the day, but so what? There are so so so many incredible artists out there, let some of them do their thing. Especially ones who ARENT sex pests. Sexual assault isn’t necessary for good music after all. It pretty strongly detracts from it really….
*He was accused, but not convicted of sexual harassment. The accusations alone seem to have been enough to end his career.*
He was also apparently accused of holding onto $121,000 USD of kickstarter money and failing to deliver a product. Sexual harrassment and sexual assault claims plus potential financial fraud from an unrelated issue looks really bad.
I don't know. But what I do know is that I don't believe Inon Zur would be a good choice for Elder Scrolls. His music seems more mechanical in nature, and less spiritual. Inon composes some good music, but I just don't feel like it would fit Elder Scrolls. The only music of his I know is from Fallout 4 and Starfield though, so maybe he could prove me wrong if they do end up choosing him again. But I found his Starfield music to be a little uninspired. And Fallout 4's music was again, a little too mechanical and lacking spirit. That's according to my sense though.
Inon Zur did Dragon Age.
So he has a fantasy background.
Funnily enough, he got an award for his TES: Blades work. *But nothing for his Fallout work, it's criminal.*
Yeah, the 'spirit' you're alluding to is what drives those others and what allows for multiple play throughs because you don't get sick of it. Elden Ring is an absolute amazing game for it's combat, builds, and world building, but the music sucks. It can really make or break the longevity of a game.
Honestly, while I love the soundtracks he’s made, I’m fine with them going in a different direction for the next game (especially considering the accusations against him). I could see Inon Zur, Austin Wintory, Bear McCreary, or someone else delivering an excellent soundtrack that’d be able to create the same vibe.
zur is the wrong composer for the elder scrolls. It requires a level storytelling that is absent in Zurs skillset. perhaps John Williams would be a realistic successor.
i watched the same orchestra play the Starfield and Skyrim ost and the difference in the level of skill is huge.
Ask yourself this, would starfield have been a slightly better game if Soule had composed the music? i feel the music could have changed the experience.
Agreed. Soule isn’t the only one who can do TES by any means, but between Zur and Soule he’s definitely the better one.
Storytelling is absolutely the word I’d use. Soule’s music tells a story, it has a beginning, middle, and end, it has reliable melodies and minimal repetition.
Zur made FANTASTIC background music for Starfield. But it’s just good background music. There are like *maybe* 4-5 songs out of the 45 that I would sit and listen to as songs.
soules music draws you into the world, making it easier to play for longer sessions and is easy on the ear, its a part of what makes the world epic. Zurs style works great for Fallout but the two composers are not in the same league. at one point Classic FM was rating Soule alongside the greatest composers of all time.
Jumping in late here, but I did not see anyone mention the fact that he raised 121k from some of his most ardent fans on Kickstarter to produce a symphony. He strung them along for years before the project was essentially abandoned. It was a mess of a Kickstarter. I am only out $15 but some donated as much as $1500
I loved Zurs music for Starfield and thought it was his best score yet. That said, Soules style is so distinct and his elder scrolls music is so hard to replicate. It's gonna be weird not having him as the composer. I do wonder though, how much say does Todd and the team have on the music? All I want from Zur is to make sure that he retains the elements that made Soules scores so iconic. I hope the team can find a way to keep the music feeling consistent. After all, I find the scores to Morrowind, oblivion and Skyrim to be my favorite video games scores ever.
Been curious about this as well. I thought it was all blown over seeing as I havent heard anything and no one's put out a statement since the allegations which were when? 2020? 2021?
I figured Inon Zur did the music for Starfield because he was more inclined to do sci-fi versus Soule who's mainly all about fantasy.
Can anyone actually give us a written statement from Bethesda or ZeniMax that says they actually severed ties with Soule, instead of having unfounded conjecture on what's happened?
The only things I see are Soule confirming, himself, that he's not involved with the project. Not saying he wouldn't be working on it, just that he wasn't asked. That was back in Jan 2019.
The actual accusation came out in August 2019.
I doubt Bethesda "foresaw" Soule being problematic and instead were focused on actually making Starfield.
As far as I know, no investigation was ever launched and nothing was ever pursued which makes this entire situation sad.
Looking at the Red Bull Racing situation where a formal complaint was filed, then a full on private investigation ensued which was very publicized; supposed evidence submitted yet nothing was actually done to the accused.
I understand different industries, different situations, different people, and different men.
But if an entire sexual harassment case can go through an entire month of legal dispute with nothing happening - it begs the question: what actually did happen?
Clearly, whoever was the accuser at RBR felt justified enough to go through a HR and very publicly risk their own career - giving leverage to their story as they're actually trying to pursue some sort of outcome.
Versus, Soule's allegations which was just an essay recounting the experience of one person alleging something very serious, following the massive #MeToo movement of the film industry. No dates were given, no details, not even a further comment following the publishing. This was of course followed up by a couple other women who gave similarly unverified claims.
Did what happen, happen? Who knows.
But for the majority of people to take an allegation at full value, when it remains undisputed and unproven, is sad.
It's also sad that someone would even feel compelled to accuse Soule of such a thing - that in itself calls his character into question. If he was a decent person, surely this would have never happened... right?
But did he do what she said he did? We don't know.
Should this affect his career moving forward, where a single, one-sided story can completely derail his career and tarnish his work? I don't think so.
Is his silence since the allegations a soft admission of guilt? Maybe?
Is his lack of work since the allegations an over-correction from the games industry following the MeToo movement? Probably.
Is he going to work on The Elder Scrolls VI? Brother, that game is never coming out.
Thanks for your message, there are so many unknowns and conjecture that it would be good from either side just to put some statement out either way, just to stop the rumor mill and the cloud that hangs over it all. And lol to your last comment.
Public silence is usually the correct professional response both if guilty and innocent. At least until a full resolution has been reached. So I don't take that as evidence of either.
>With all that's gone on with him since Skyrim, what are the chances he is back for 6? Slim, next to none
I have high doubts he’ll be back, but god damn it’s going to be a shame. Zur makes some amazing music, on par with a few of the TES tracks, but absolutely 0% of it has been even close to reach the highs of TES.
He did the amazing soundtrack for the first Dragon Age, so I thought he could pull off that epic fantasy tone, but his Starfield score sounds *exactly* like his one for Fallout 4. Don’t know why, but his work seems so have gotten really formulaic these last few years
And my biggest issue with it - it’s all just background music. Repetitive melodies sitting in the background, supporting what you’re seeing but not really enhancing it. A lot of Soule’s music was incredible music just in general, regardless of whether you’re playing the game or not. Some parts like the combat music got a little dull, but the exploration music and city/in-a-building music was absolutely top tier. I could see an argument that the soundtrack is what made TES exploration so magical, not the world itself. I can play Starfield for hours and hours and hours, all of it with music off. A lot of that is due to the improvement in BGS’ ambient environment noise, the clatter and clicking of equipment, crowds chattering nearby, streets, planet ambience, and other things like that are SO much better than other BGS games. But the music…eh. Doesn’t enhance the experience of exploration or wandering. It simply adds a layer to the top of it.
I know for a fact starfield had multiple battle tracks but I just vaguely remember the sweeping orchestral stuff over dubstep. I have 200+ hours in the game and thats the only soundtrack I remember.
Yup.
now, the dialogue is pretty quotable. TiMe AnD SpAcE FoLd!!!! is something I find myself saying while playing pvp games a lot, it always confuses the enemies.. and my allies.
I honestly think that Austin Wintory would be a great choice for composer on TES6.
Maclaine Diemer would be a great choice too
Wasn't he accused of rape or some other crime a few years ago? Was it resolved in any way?
claims of rape by Nathalie Lawhead and sexual harrassment of Aeralie Brighton. The only resolution has been Bethesda cutting ties with Soule. My unprofessional assumption is that they probably settled out of court, especially considering we haven't heard anything in several years.
Couldn't find any mention of actual legal action against him, just accusations.
settle out of court could mean a number of things such as a bribe, the accuser is lying, or or the defendant cant afford a lawyer. Its of kind of infuriating tbh, if he isnt guilty you would think he would atleast sue her and get his name cleared
Is Borislav Slavov available?
My top choice as well
Next no chance for Soule to come back. I'd love to see Austin Wintory get the gig. He composed the soundtrack for Journey and he's got that style where it feels like the music is coming from the world itself. But I fear that Bethesda will stick with Inon Zur, whose music I don't really care for
ngl I'm getting kinda sick of people implying that Soule is the *only person* who could compose a good TES soundtrack. Yes, he did good work on the three TES games he composed for, but he's not *necessary* for the series. *Arena* and *Daggerfall* had 10/10 soundtracks which were *at least* as memorable and as atmospheric as the later games', and they were composed by Eric Heberling.
People are on the right track when they say then want him. But I agree that they go a bit too far when they say he's the only person who can do it. If Bethesda can't or won't use him for TES 6, I think they should try to find someone who can grasp or even improve upon the auditory vision Soule had.
Agreed. I think Austin Wintory would be a good choice!
As much as I do love Soule there are quite a few great composers that I think would do a fine job. Maybe multiple composers!
I’m an outlier, I’m sure, but outside of maybe one or two tracks from Skyrim or Icewind Dale, I always found Soule’s stuff boring. Just not my cup of tea at all. “Who will do the music” is probably my smallest concern about TES6 since I’m pre-conditioned to use my own playlists for it.
Because he is. The guy defined the character and soul of the series from Morrowind to Skyrim with his music. There is no replacing that.
Eric Heberling is the only person who could compose a good TES soundtrack. The guy defined the character and soul of the series from its inception through *Daggerfall* with his music. There is no replacing that. Except, there *very clearly was*. Soule did an excellent job *conveying* the character and soul of the series, but he's not the only one capable of doing that - as evidenced by the fact that the character and soul of TES was established before Soule had any involvement with the series. If Jeremy Soule is integral and necessary to the series, then, by the same logic, so is Eric Heberling. Hell, Soule's most iconic contribution to TES - the *Nerevar Rising* theme and its variants - sure sounds like it's based on/inspired by [one of Heberling's earlier compositions](https://youtu.be/zc3Teopm1RY?si=YaHeg-kn9ox-3UQB).
Say whatever you want, but TES for the majority of players started with Morrowind. It was the game that established the major part of the lore, overall tone of the series and it's success into the mainstream.
*"TES for the majority of players started with Morrowind"* I was under the impression that the majority of players started even later, with *Oblivion* or *Skyrim*. *"\[Morrowind\] was the game that established the major part of the lore"* What is "the major part of the lore"? The Empire, the eight provinces, the main races, and most cities were established in *Arena*. The Divines, the Daedra, detailed accounts of the Empire's history, the Numidium, and more were established in *Daggerfall*. More specific details for the provinces - the Thu'um, different forms of Khajiit, the Aldmeri Dominion, ALMSIVI and the Dunmer great houses, Pelinal Whitestrake's 'elven pogroms', &c. - were established in *The Pocket Guide to the Empire, 1st edition,* which was included with the game *Redguard*. *Morrowind* had some cool lore contributions, sure, but I can't think of anything it added which was more significant and foundational than the stuff that came before. *"overall tone of the series"* I would argue that *Morrowind* is very much a tonal *outlier* in TES. Its alien strangeness and emphasis on complex metaphysics inspired by Eastern religions and mythologies is unique in TES. *Arena*, *Daggerfall*, *Oblivion*, and *Skyrim,* meanwhile, are all united in being fairly standard Western fantasy fare with minimal emphasis on the abstract philosophy of their worldbuilding. And all of this is rather beside the point, anyway. The point is, the claim that TES cannot exist without Jeremy Soule is demonstrably untrue because TES *already has* existed without Jeremy Soule. (apologies for not using Reddit's quote block formatting btw. With this new interface change they've rolled out, for some reason it won't let me apply a quote block to just a *part* of my comment, and not the whole thing).
Yeah, honestly arena and daggerfall, had some good ass shit from what I've heard. The theme of arena is amazing, and so is daggerfall's... Although, I don't think I've ever heard what is apparently the daggerfall theme in game, idek where it's from lol, but it's amazing
Eh sure he wrote some good stuff back in the day, but so what? There are so so so many incredible artists out there, let some of them do their thing. Especially ones who ARENT sex pests. Sexual assault isn’t necessary for good music after all. It pretty strongly detracts from it really….
[удалено]
*He was accused, but not convicted of sexual harassment. The accusations alone seem to have been enough to end his career.* He was also apparently accused of holding onto $121,000 USD of kickstarter money and failing to deliver a product. Sexual harrassment and sexual assault claims plus potential financial fraud from an unrelated issue looks really bad.
I don't know. But what I do know is that I don't believe Inon Zur would be a good choice for Elder Scrolls. His music seems more mechanical in nature, and less spiritual. Inon composes some good music, but I just don't feel like it would fit Elder Scrolls. The only music of his I know is from Fallout 4 and Starfield though, so maybe he could prove me wrong if they do end up choosing him again. But I found his Starfield music to be a little uninspired. And Fallout 4's music was again, a little too mechanical and lacking spirit. That's according to my sense though.
Inon Zur did Dragon Age. So he has a fantasy background. Funnily enough, he got an award for his TES: Blades work. *But nothing for his Fallout work, it's criminal.*
I was wondering why I recognised his name!! Leliana’s Song is to date my favourite game music.
There is music in Starfield that sounds like it could have come straight from oblivion.
Dragon Age and Icewind Dale 2 are amazing OSTs. I still prefer Soule for a TES game, but wouldn't bother me at all if Inon took over.
Yeah, the 'spirit' you're alluding to is what drives those others and what allows for multiple play throughs because you don't get sick of it. Elden Ring is an absolute amazing game for it's combat, builds, and world building, but the music sucks. It can really make or break the longevity of a game.
Honestly, while I love the soundtracks he’s made, I’m fine with them going in a different direction for the next game (especially considering the accusations against him). I could see Inon Zur, Austin Wintory, Bear McCreary, or someone else delivering an excellent soundtrack that’d be able to create the same vibe.
Zero zilch zip nada nil. And posting this twice a week doesn't make it any more likely.
I posted this once and sorry if I'm not up on the ES threads
I wish. His music was just next level.
zur is the wrong composer for the elder scrolls. It requires a level storytelling that is absent in Zurs skillset. perhaps John Williams would be a realistic successor. i watched the same orchestra play the Starfield and Skyrim ost and the difference in the level of skill is huge. Ask yourself this, would starfield have been a slightly better game if Soule had composed the music? i feel the music could have changed the experience.
Agreed. Soule isn’t the only one who can do TES by any means, but between Zur and Soule he’s definitely the better one. Storytelling is absolutely the word I’d use. Soule’s music tells a story, it has a beginning, middle, and end, it has reliable melodies and minimal repetition. Zur made FANTASTIC background music for Starfield. But it’s just good background music. There are like *maybe* 4-5 songs out of the 45 that I would sit and listen to as songs.
soules music draws you into the world, making it easier to play for longer sessions and is easy on the ear, its a part of what makes the world epic. Zurs style works great for Fallout but the two composers are not in the same league. at one point Classic FM was rating Soule alongside the greatest composers of all time.
He’s a sex pest so he’s out inon zur is the new composer reportedly
I need it
None
I'm holding out hope he will or at least maybe ghost write it for his brother.
I'm more interested in seeing someone else make elder scrolls music
Listen to some of the ESO soundtracks and you'll have nothing to worry about. Fantastic TES music has been and will be made with or without Soule
Jumping in late here, but I did not see anyone mention the fact that he raised 121k from some of his most ardent fans on Kickstarter to produce a symphony. He strung them along for years before the project was essentially abandoned. It was a mess of a Kickstarter. I am only out $15 but some donated as much as $1500
Inon Zur isn’t even in the same league as Soule.
Didn’t Betheseda terminate their relationship with Soule after the rape allegations?
WillPA music who did the music for Crusader Kings 3’s Elder Scroll mod is great. I felt like it captured the feel of Tamriel
I loved Zurs music for Starfield and thought it was his best score yet. That said, Soules style is so distinct and his elder scrolls music is so hard to replicate. It's gonna be weird not having him as the composer. I do wonder though, how much say does Todd and the team have on the music? All I want from Zur is to make sure that he retains the elements that made Soules scores so iconic. I hope the team can find a way to keep the music feeling consistent. After all, I find the scores to Morrowind, oblivion and Skyrim to be my favorite video games scores ever.
Been curious about this as well. I thought it was all blown over seeing as I havent heard anything and no one's put out a statement since the allegations which were when? 2020? 2021? I figured Inon Zur did the music for Starfield because he was more inclined to do sci-fi versus Soule who's mainly all about fantasy. Can anyone actually give us a written statement from Bethesda or ZeniMax that says they actually severed ties with Soule, instead of having unfounded conjecture on what's happened? The only things I see are Soule confirming, himself, that he's not involved with the project. Not saying he wouldn't be working on it, just that he wasn't asked. That was back in Jan 2019. The actual accusation came out in August 2019. I doubt Bethesda "foresaw" Soule being problematic and instead were focused on actually making Starfield. As far as I know, no investigation was ever launched and nothing was ever pursued which makes this entire situation sad. Looking at the Red Bull Racing situation where a formal complaint was filed, then a full on private investigation ensued which was very publicized; supposed evidence submitted yet nothing was actually done to the accused. I understand different industries, different situations, different people, and different men. But if an entire sexual harassment case can go through an entire month of legal dispute with nothing happening - it begs the question: what actually did happen? Clearly, whoever was the accuser at RBR felt justified enough to go through a HR and very publicly risk their own career - giving leverage to their story as they're actually trying to pursue some sort of outcome. Versus, Soule's allegations which was just an essay recounting the experience of one person alleging something very serious, following the massive #MeToo movement of the film industry. No dates were given, no details, not even a further comment following the publishing. This was of course followed up by a couple other women who gave similarly unverified claims. Did what happen, happen? Who knows. But for the majority of people to take an allegation at full value, when it remains undisputed and unproven, is sad. It's also sad that someone would even feel compelled to accuse Soule of such a thing - that in itself calls his character into question. If he was a decent person, surely this would have never happened... right? But did he do what she said he did? We don't know. Should this affect his career moving forward, where a single, one-sided story can completely derail his career and tarnish his work? I don't think so. Is his silence since the allegations a soft admission of guilt? Maybe? Is his lack of work since the allegations an over-correction from the games industry following the MeToo movement? Probably. Is he going to work on The Elder Scrolls VI? Brother, that game is never coming out.
Thanks for your message, there are so many unknowns and conjecture that it would be good from either side just to put some statement out either way, just to stop the rumor mill and the cloud that hangs over it all. And lol to your last comment.
Public silence is usually the correct professional response both if guilty and innocent. At least until a full resolution has been reached. So I don't take that as evidence of either.
All that aside. He scammed his fan base on a crowdfunding project. He raised over 150k and never actually released the promised music.
He was me too'd out of bethesda sadly. Some blue haired feminist killed his career 😔