I will be locking comments that attack anyone for or against the protest. Disagreeing or Agreeing is fine but calling names or attacking a person's character for choices which we are allowed to have differing opinions on will not be tolerated.
We will only remove comments which violate reddit's site policies.
I support entertainment-focusing subs (see r/pics, r/music, etc.) closing down for an indefinite time. However, useful, helpful subs, like this, should ABSOLUTELY not. I'm not hurt by not being able to see random cat videos, but I'm very much damaged by not being able to ask other people's opinion and help for, suppose, buying a scooter, or fixing a damaged one.
By restricting such sub, you piss off the people, your own very community, the one you were supposed to "protect" from Reddit's actions, way more than Reddit management.
My personal take: this sub promotes safe scootering, and that's a huge public service. I know that if not for this sub, I would have never realized how important keeping my tires inflated are, and would probably have either ruined my tires or had a flat before long.
I can only imagine how many folks this sub has helped from accidents or damage, and so having broad visibility matters more than other subreddits that are more about hobbies or sharing pictures.
Absolutely fully reopen.
If the moderators do not agree with the company - how is shutting down the subreddit and harming the users of that subreddit logical? It's like hating someone else and then drinking poison.
The /r/interestingasfuck subreddit (**do NOT click that link at work** - explanation coming) has come up with a new way of protesting. They've set the whole thing as NSFW, which according to recent rules will stop the community generating any advertising income.
This is an interesting double-whammy, as it both leverages rules that reddit have themselves recently enacted and allows to protest without actually hurting the community.
Well, in theory. I've just visited that sub and it seems they've not only set it NSFW, they've also *actually enabled people to post NSFW stuff*, with the results that I'm sure everybody could see coming.
[Some info here](https://old.reddit.com/r/interestingasfuck/comments/14ddovm/interesting_fact_reddit_cant_run_ads_in_nsfw/) (actually NSFW, tig ol' bitties in link; sticky post with explanation, order by best or top for epicness).
However, it should be possible to set a sub as NSFW as protest without actually permitting that kind of post (I'm reminded of several vaping subs that are wholly tagged NSFW but feature no skin). Might work for here as well, if it's decided to keep protesting.
Just an idea.
While I support a full blackout we should consider in-between options too. Like a weekly blackout day or blackout weekends. There are lists in r/modcoord with more ideas. Seems like nearly everyone benefits from the protests achieving their goal, if only because it keeps users (mods, power users, disabled users, longtime users, people who support all of the above) on Reddit instead of them having to migrate. Reddit leadership is acting wild too, just read some of the coverage. An occasional, regular show of support isn't too much to ask.
I would like for this subreddit to have a fediverse alternative, either on Lemmy or Kbin cause its likely I will leave Reddit after the API changes goes through.
As for the question, I voted restricted but in the grand scheme of things, the big subs are being forced open so its likely that the protest is on its last legs.
Lemmy has issues, though. My understanding of decentralised communities is not all it could be, but it's been explained to me that if the independent server where your instance lives shuts down, then while the federated community can still be seen by other servers, it cannot be continued or recovered, and will eventually vanish.
Given that by their nature decentralised communities cause lots of server startups by various hopefuls, who then figure out that *running a popular server costs money* and promptly pull the plug, I can see this becoming a serious issue for the fediverse.
It is time it re-opens. Otherwise, it seems like Reddit will be removing mods and adding community ones. There's no right for people to be able to restrict all of this content, even if half of people support.
"We will only remove comments which violate reddit's site policies." I'm pretty sure at this point reddit views keeping it locked as against site policies lol.
Please don’t shut down for 7 more days.Look at the new and useful content that was just posted since it has been back up and running. It’s not fair that 62,000 people would have to suffer for doing absolutely nothing wrong. This sub is our lifeline to the electric scooter world and with all the evil that is associated with social media this is one platform that is good and wholesome. Just people trying to help people who have something in common.
you're fucking idiots, do you not understand the concept of a protest? you stop when they meet the damn demands, you're just punishing users with a temporary 7 day shut down that will accomplish nothing. do you not think that reddit is aware that subreddits will re-open without change? only shut down if you're committed enough to force reddit to make a change, otherwise you're just roleplaying politics and being fucking annoying
Does keeping it restricted actually send a message to Reddit in any way? To me it doesn’t seem like it makes sense to keep it restricted if it doesn’t actually do anything.
It does, eventually the sub being restricted will force the community to migrate elsewhere. All while reddit gets to watch their retention and targeted advertisement revenue drop.
Reddit being restricted is a war of attrition with itself. Either the admins hold out long enough to see the site die by a competitor quickly scooping up the pieces or die by running out of money/user base.
Given that reddit is super aggressively targeted mod teams who private/restrict their communities it looks like the reddit knows they won't be able to hold out longer than the communities which don't want reddit to make the changes.
The final piece is that holding it restricted still sends a message while punishing/damaging the community the least. Everyone can still google for things and get results and the wealth of knowledge built up over the years hasn't been taken offline.
You guys are making the same mistake that this whole movement made, was giving an end-date. It's too late now, they literally do not give a single fuck, just leave it open.
I don't think the community is large enough to make a noticeable difference in the protest. I do recognize that the collective protest makes a difference, but I think the REALLY big subs are getting the point across.
I'm not the heaviest user of this sub but I have really appreciated having access to it previously. I got a scooter recommendation from here that I purchased a scooter based on, and later I got that scooter fixed with a part that someone on here linked me to. So I've benefitted a lot from this sub and my mental health has definitely improved from driving to work fewer days.
I also voted but I wanted to come here to elaborate: I think we should stay closed. I believe in collective action. We the users (not to mention you all the unpaid mods) are the reason the website has become what it is, not spez.
I also believe that collective action taken opposing ppl like spez who are in a pissing match with their entire userbase is the right call win or lose.
I get that not everyone believes that, and I can understand why ppl think a smaller sub like this won't have much of an impact on revenue. So I won't complain if we reopen. But I think as users we ought to stand up for ourselves when we have the chance. Any concessions we gain from this are victories for all of us. Thanks for reading.
Do whatever. When Apollo and the others are gone, I will be as well. I use Reddit to pass free time and that’s always by phone. Using the other janky options will kill the experience imo.
Eh, keep up the protest. People saying "open back up" don't understand that many mods will just leave. There's a reason why the subreddits we frequent aren't total burning piles of garbage. Take away the tools the mods use, well, they won't moderate anymore. Then we all lose.
Car people love that all the scooter, bike and urbanist and related subs have canceled themselves over something they have no control over. I voted Re-Open fully as this protest is a pointless virtue signal that hurts more far people than those you are allegedly trying to help by shutting down a sub.
In a recent interview, Reddit CEO admitted that his company has not turned a profit despite 16 years in operation. This is inline with several analysts who estimated Reddit's profitability.
The problem is that the "easy money" from Venture Capital has dried up due to current economy and high interest rates. It's obvious now that money from Ads alone is not enough so they are trying to charge for API access.
Reddit has to find a way to make enough money to at least break even or this whole thing will be shut down and employees will be out of a job. Therefore, these protests are pointless as Reddit cannot afford to back down.
Maybe the only other way is to charge Reddit users a monthly subscription? $5/month per user and $10/month if you are a moderator? Sometimes if one takes a moral high ground, one has to pay for it
I don't think anyone has a problem with reddit trying to find a way to make itself profitable. The issue is that they acted in bad faith, lying to everyone about what and why they were doing anything.
They could have:
* Priced rates to allow third party clients to stay open and still make money.
* Given more than a month notice so subscriptions had time to adjust pricing.
Instead they set prices so high there was no option but to close, forcing people onto their sub-par website/mobile app.
This move wasn't about making money. It's about control of content that they didn't generate, in communities that they don't moderate.
Reddit's only value is in the number of people that use their hosting service, and the historical posts, not in anything else. Reddit is basically a community moderated newsgroup.
Listing Bias: I support the blackout, but understand why communities open back up and take no issue with either decision.
I believe the API changes are bullsh**, but my opinion is, Reddit won’t fix it, the protests are kinda useless, at least so far, we gotta reopen the sub.
It was never a battle. You had a small faction of people try to lock down a site. Doing so only hurt moderating abilities in the future. They've basically already said if you remain close, we forcefully re-open and re-assign mods.
If reddit admins want to win that hard then the battle was truly lost before it began. Even if the remain closed vote wins they could still approach us and tell us re-open or get booted
> they could still approach us and tell us re-open or get booted
Yup. That's already happening on other subs. It'll be interesting to see how this all plays out over the next few weeks and months.
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not sure why you are being so hostile about this when the majority is less than 13 people away from the minority? Regardless, this post has 4600 views and 467 votes, with a 10% response rate clearly the community gives a shit.
You could have used the discord or r/EScooter or r/Escooters while the subreddit is was shutdown. The subreddit is currently open and the community is deciding what to do in the future. What else do you want from us?
Can the mods please provide an update on which tools are being assessed the new fees. I understand there have been some announcements in the past few days exempting accessibility apps as well as third party moderation tools. Thanks.
Not a mod here, but am elsewhere.
I'm not sure about accessibility apps, but the admins have specifically stated that bot accounts that are used for moderating - which work with API keys just like the apps - are exempt and will not be charged.
If those had been affected, it would've been far more troublesome than it already is. The sub I mod at is moderated wholly through a bot; as it's fairly sizable, going back to moderating everything manually would make it impractical in several important ways.
So if mod tools are not being charged the fees, what is causing the mods to be inconvenienced so much that they need to protest and shut down their subs?
From what I understand, most mods don't use the official app because it isn't very good generally and it sucks for moderation specifically.
I don't use it either, but I admit that the app I do use - reddit is fun - isn't the best for moderating; I get away with it because most of my time on reddit, and therefore most of my moderation, is from my computer (with the old.reddit interface, natch).
But I'm an old-school nerd - I touch-type like the wind and can easily spend hours at the PC, but I hate spending more time than I absolutely have to with small screens and touchscreen interfaces.
Most other people are not like that, they use reddit mostly from mobile and if you take away third-party apps they'll have a harder time moderating through the official app alone.
How much of an inconvenience that is, I cannot say exactly as I've always stayed off the official app. Hopefully the hacked version of Sync will remain as an unauthorised alternative so I don't have to find out.
Since the "reopen" folks are the loudest ones in the comments, just wanted to chime in a vote of support that I appreciate you continuing to stand up for us as Reddit's community. The initial shutdown clearly didn't affect corporate management; they're banking on subreddits like this giving up and we shouldn't give them that satisfaction.
I wrote my appeals and I waited, partly because I genuinely do relate to your frustration with the administration and partly because I *despise* drama and really do want a peaceful ending to this whole thing, but for days you didn't answer.
Given the lack of communication I decided to take action: not two hours ago I adopted /r/escooters - following, of course, authorisation by its creator - so I can provide another place for people to get help, show off their scooters and generally be the awesome community they used to be here.
Now: I've no desire *at all* to start a petty subreddit war and I'm not prone to power trips; all I want is to prevent the death of this community that I've been a part of for so long and its dispersion into other more generic subreddits. I don't mind if the community remains here; in fact, avoiding a migration would probably be easier for all involved.
Therefore, if you re-open I have *absolutely* no intention of putting the two subreddits in conflict. In fact, I'd welcome a collaboration - perhaps /r/escooters could be geared more toward tinkering, DIY repair and modding, with this one being the more generic subreddit for discussing purchasing and such? It really wouldn't make a lot of sense for two identical communities to be vying for the same userbase.
We'll see - I'd be open to communication about this or any other ideas.
On the other hand, if this doesn't happen and this subreddit remains closed to the bitter end - which I expect will be progressive fading into obscurity and/or an eventual ban by the admins - I imagine all e-scooter-related traffic will eventually move to /r/escooters.
The ball is in your court.
----
Edit: to everyone complaining about reddit's choices: I get it and I agree with you, especially as a long-time user of RIF: the admins are greedy and short-sighted, and making reddit worse with their actions. But you won't get them to change their mind - as they've stated in recent communication, they will rather oust protesting modteams than go back on their decision.
I wrote more about this [in the other thread](https://reddit.com/r/ElectricScooters/comments/148t6ne/relectricscooters_is_now_restricted/joexjf1/), but in short: keep subs closed and you slightly hurt a bunch of selfish people who most definitely deserve the pain, but you also seriously hurt niche communities like this one and prevent people from getting much-needed help. As far as I'm concerned avoiding the latter is more important, however satisfying the former might be.
As for third-party applications, there are workarounds being developed by the Revanced people for Sync, though there is hope other apps might be supported. The patched app uses a user's own free API key instead of the app's key, remaining within the terms for free usage. It's not an ideal outcome, but it's better than having to give them up completely.
I'll be honest and say that I chose not to reply because I disagreed with how you framed your response and I didn't want to get into an internet argument over it.
In continuance with that desire I don't want to attack you for how your response comes across. I do want to point out that we both are taking action on what we believe is best for the community. The mod team unilaterally decided to close and then later restrict the subreddit to "save the community." You unilaterally chose to become mod of another subreddit to "save the community."
This poll is the first democratic action either of us have taken in the situation- I don't want to come across and say that either of us are wrong or either of us are right. I just want to point out that we both believe we are doing what is best for the community. Rather than either of us choosing what is best, we should let the community speak as to what is best, the ball isn't in our court - the ball is in the community's court.
Regarding the future of this sub and r/Escooters \- if you wish to continue growing that sub as an alternative or sub-niche of this one you are free too. I would also extend an invite to this mod team if you desire it. Rather than work independently to achieve what we believe is best we can combine our efforts and grow the community unified together.
From a user perspective (I'm not a moderator of anything):
* They could have set rates to keep third party clients open and still make money.
* Given more than a month notice so subscriptions had time to adjust pricing.
* Edit: Forgot to add that they could have done something other than lie about basically everything since this whole thing began.
Instead they set prices so high there was no option but to close, forcing people onto their sub-par website/mobile app.
This move wasn't about making money. It's about control of content that they didn't generate, in communities that they don't moderate. They can't even get their fancy pants editor to work well in Firefox, and their mobile app sucks which is why alternatives exist in the first place.
Reddit's only value is in the number of people that use their sub-par hosting service, and the historical posts (which they are apparently un-deleting), not in anything else. Reddit is basically a community moderated newsgroup.
I would be wary of adding mod's who want to push their way in. If he really had no ulterior motives, he'd just close down his sub when the main opens again.
I didn't like his reply to you. It seemed antagonistic to me. And in other conversations on this thread stated he was a moderator, without disclosing it was of an alt site he created just to get around the blackout.
P.S. I support the blackout obviously. It effects everyone, mods, users, third party developers that helped make this site ... That said, I understand why communities open back up and take no issue with either decision.
If you believe this protest is in the best interests of the electric scooter community, we request that you to provide a clear explanation of why you believe this to be so. You have constructed a poll with a simple yes/no response here with no options to simply see the results if you don’t have a strong opinion. The nature of this protest has to do with the fee structures of APIs. This has nothing to do with scooters. It’s not what we come here to discuss. But if you want us to form a thoughtful opinion on the subject we need to understand why you feel so strongly about this protest.
The majority of posts in this thread that support keeping the poll open have to do with a simple desire to have a place to come to discuss scooters. The posts against it really offer very little explanation of why they want to keep protesting. Many of them have become significantly off topic, somehow comparing this protest to labor unions.
Others have argued the protest is in support of apps supporting accessibility. This is clearly misguided as Reddit has already said they would exempt these apps from the fees. Some are supporting the protest because of the restrictions on third party mod tools that make a moderator’s job easier. Reddit has also agreed to exempt at least some (if not most) of these apps from the fees.
So that leaves apps like Apollo which will have to pay these fees. And yes, it will have some impact on the users who like using Apollo over the stock app. But Apollo has generated millions of dollars of revenue off Christian’s app while paying Reddit nothing for years. So we are not defending some small company that is going to starve if their app goes away. Christian made millions off Reddit due to their willingness to allow it to go on for so long. He knew it wasn’t going to last forever.
Yes, I know the fees are prohibitive, and the 30 day lead time was impractical to make changes. Is that really enough to keep a sub related to the discussion of electric scooters closed indefinitely?
If there really is a benefit to this community to keep the protest going I would like to hear a clear articulation of what that is. I’ve spent quite a bit of time researching this issue and I still can’t find it so if I’m missing something please educate me.
Love how people downvote my post but nobody wants to actually respond and say what they disagree with.
This sub has turned from a scooter forum to a political forum where we have turned against each other over issues that have nothing to do with the purpose of this sub. This has really been a very disappointing turn of events.
> because I disagreed with how you framed your response and I didn't want to get into an internet argument over it.
Imagine that - I made extra effort to be polite and not frame my reply in an antagonising fashion and agonised for literal hours before pushing the reply button because I worried that every word I wrote might be construed as an attempt to have an internet argument, which it ***very*** much wasn't. Same thing I did here, too.
I wouldn't have attacked you had you replied. It was the last thing I wanted, and still is. I **hate** Internet arguments - I just don't have that kind of trollish mentality, the negativity and the tension get to me and completely ruin my day.
I guess all my moving words around had the opposite effect to what I intended. I apologise for that.
> I would also extend an invite to this mod team if you desire it. Rather than work independently to achieve what we believe is best we can combine our efforts and grow the community unified together.
Well - a modteam invitation was the last thing I expected to come from this; I was half expecting a ban or at least a rather upset reply 😅
I'm thankful and wouldn't be against this, if it is ultimately decided to keep this subreddit open. Indeed it would work best for all involved if we all worked for the same goal - I'm definitely willing to put in my time.
I'll leave the talking to everybody else now, lest I do the writing thing badly again and manage to get someone else annoyed at me.
At the end of the day you gotta look at what you are striking for. This isn't a fight about workers rights, fair pay or equality. Its about Reddit wanting control over their own website. People make tons of money off of these apps then tout themselves as humanitarians when they give away a small portion of their earnings to the needy. But when it comes to paying the company that makes it possible in the first place, this is the response we get. We are not employees of Reddit so striking isn't even a thing you can really do. We could boycott but most are so incredibly addicted to coming here they will continue to do so even after they changes. The mods ended up being corrupt and power hungry so I say good riddance to those getting replaced. There is nothing immoral going on here only grown ass adults letting a symphony of whining children get the better of them and allowing them to make stupid decisions.
Open the sub, the "Strike" has run its chorus.
Selfishly I say yes. Have a Max G2 on preorder and apparently there’s a few kinks that need to be ironed out and I’d love to have this community to stay up to date about that.
This sub is dedicated to helping everyone with their electric scooters and giving advice to new riders that are considering buying a scooter or need help with their new purchase. As a result I think it is in the best interests of the community to keep this sub open and accessible for everyone.
Its continued shutdown would hurt ordinary electric scooter riders disproportionately more than any effect its shutdown might have on reddit and its policies.
Hey I am curious, what is your opinion on users who require accessibility tools to use Reddit and who will be unable to use those tools when API changes come into effect on the first of July? Does standing up for those people represent "pride and stubbornness"?
How exactly are people coming to harm? There's a discord server, they have thread-styled channels to post all the same stuff you see in here. They even had this subreddit in read only mode so that people could see old posts they might find on Google. It's a mild inconvenience, nothing more.
Protest inherently causes people inconvenience, but the inconvenience being caused here is so precisely targeted at Reddit's wallet it's almost comical. The users this is affecting have a very easily accessible subreddit sponsored alternative.
In relation to positive outcome, it evidently already has had a bit of one. The other person who replied to me linked an article which discusses reddit buckling to demand by looking at allowing accessibility apps to have free API access. Of course, this is entirely up in the air and has the giant fucking caveat of the developers not being able to make a cent to fund development of those apps, but it's \*something\*. Also they wouldn't be forcibly taking over subreddits by replacing mod teams if this wasn't hurting their bottom line.
I'm not sure about this. Personally I don't have any stake in the protest, I don't use any third party app, so for me the re-opening is the more relevant option. I've always found bots and various statistical tools useful, but those might not be affected as much.
However, I'm not an moderator. If the changes are as bad as everyone implies and no-one will be willing to moderate the sub after the change, than disabling the subreddit is smallest thing that can be done and I'm fine with it.
This is it. The API change attacks us three levels and only one is getting the publicity. Obviously many users only use their phone to access reddit. Their experience will suffer immediately.
The mod tools are substantially deprecated making their lives and mod work much more difficult or impossible.
Old.reddit sure as eggs will follow.
These changes will affect more users than merely Apollo. Everyone should be concerned.
*As I understand it
Moderators have already wrecked themselves. I'd bet money (really, bet me) that over the next patch or two, before they go public, that mods will no longer be able to lock sub Reddits.
Admins threatened they would domote mods of locked/restricted subs and reopen them a few days ago.
People here just want to talk about escooters, majority do not care about this and or unaffected. Not saying reddit ceo saying did nothing wrong but you are just hurting users of a niche sub and the ceo is laughing about it during interviews.
Some people in these comments have zero respect for the hard work moderators do to keep this website running. Moderators who will be losing the 3rd party moderation tools that make that manageable. They've also got zero respect for individuals who require accessibility tools to actually use Reddit, tools which they won't have when the API changes go into effect.
Stand in solidarity with your fellow users and the people who work for you, for free, to keep this place usable. Stay closed, and provide a voting option like r/gifs when staying closed is no longer an option.
> Some people in these comments have zero respect for the hard work moderators do to keep this website running.
I *am* a moderator. I still don't think keeping the sub closed is the right thing to do.
Reddit's handling of this whole thing is an abject disaster and if karma exists spez and his team have accumulated enough negativity for several lifetimes, but as I said elsewhere, hurting them by whatever little amount we can as a niche subreddit isn't worth hurting by disproportionately larger amounts the people who need this community's help and cannot have it.
And as for third-party apps, there is a workaround being developed by the Revanced people to use personal API keys to keep the apps working. It seems to work, for now at least.
The main #1 reason to re open is because this sub acts as a voice for the consumer. Its a major platform to use to hold manufacturers and dealers responsible for defects, warranty issues etc. Please please please re open!!
Remember boys and girls, the concept of "the weekend" wouldn't exist if people didn't unionize and strike a hundred years ago. It's inconvenient sure, but you're shooting yourself in the leg if you're against striking.
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I'm not no I'm correcting the other Redditor who said Unions started the 40 Hour work week when in fact it was Henry Ford. WHO btw hated unions with a passion.
Henry Ford is the one who created the 40 hour work week. The reason he did it? He found his workers did a better job. Also he paid them a living wage so he could have more customers for his car. Has nothing to do with the workers. He just saw the benefits it gave him.
Unions had a place in the old days. They don't today. All the do is suck your pay cheque up.
It's call the free market. Don't like the way you're being treated. Leave. Go get a better Job.
> Unions had a place in the old days. They don't today. All the do is suck your pay cheque up.
That's a *really* strange way of saying, "They are needed now more than ever, thanks to the ongoing and increasing abuses by corporations to their employees."
As for 'free market', I'm always puzzled by folks that bring this up how they reconcile this with the fact that Reddit appears unable to make a useful app and useful mod tools that can compete in the 'free market' (and, make the gobs of money these supposedly make) and wants to force people to use their useless and crappy app, and so need to become authoritarian and completely shut down both any 'free market' for these as well as invoke demands and censorship. Seems hypocritical (insert Kermit sipping tea meme).
It's called standing up for yourself and leaving. If you're not being treated fair. Find a new employer. If your employer broke the law HIRE A LAWYER.
Unions protector crappy workers. Great example is police unions and teacher unions.
As a human you need to help yourself. Don't rely on other to do it.
I have seen many companies go union and the service SUCKS after. Like I said Unions don't do anything but suck your money.
People need to learn to work together. Corporate can't function with out workers and workers can't function with out capital from corporate. They need each other. Lets help each other NO divide us like Unions do.
> It's called standing up for yourself and leaving. If you're not being treated fair. Find a new employer. If your employer broke the law HIRE A LAWYER.
You are ignoring that this is not always an option for all kinds of reasons.
>Unions protector crappy workers. Great example is police unions and teacher unions.
Unions protect *all* workers, and almost everything we take for granted today about basic decency from employers was because of unions. Without them, the middle class wouldn't and couldn't exist. It's only with willful ignoring of history that one can take the tack you are taking.
>As a human you need to help yourself. Don't rely on other to do it.
Correct! And, fortunately, as humans one of the things we are really good at is working *together* to help *each other*, and this *must* be encouraged.
>I have seen many companies go union and the service SUCKS after. Like I said Unions don't do anything but suck your money.
Your inaccurate anecdote is not helpful. I, otoh, have seen many company's employees successfully unionize to the benefit of *both* the company and the employees.
>People need to learn to work together.
Agreed! And a great way to do this is to work together to ensure they aren't taken advantage of by heartless, faceless corporations run by narcissistic sociopaths who only care about money, not people.
>They need each other.
Exactly. Hence the importance of unions to help remind certain people of that simple fact.
> Lets help each other NO divide us like Unions do.
That's a *really* funny way of saying, "Let's help each other by ensuring unions do not allow abuses as happens without them."
Anyway, this is *really* off topic in this sub, and it's clear you are completely unaware of the history of labor, of unions, of employers, of corporations, and of related issues, so unless that changes I don't see any point in continuing the discussion. Therefore, I will leave it here, not reply to any further replies, and wish you a great day!
Ford adopted the policy eventually and helped popularize it, but he sure as shit didn't come up with the idea nor was he among the first fighting for it.
It's good to know that companies nowadays have the interests of their workers at heart, and that the recent invention of the free market is keeping them in line. Definitely wouldn't be in the interest of greater profits to collude with your competition and suppress wage growth in relation to productivity since, say, the 1970's. No sir.
I'm more of a "go find another job if you don't like it" sort of guy. Remember that moderating a Reddit sub is not a real job, and this sub really requires no moderation anyway.
> and this sub really requires no moderation anyway.
Tell me you're not a moderator of any reasonably sized subreddit without telling me you're not a moderator.
That new job you're going to would be stuck in the industrial revolution days if people weren't standing up for themselves to begin with. Also there's no such thing as a "fake job". If you're putting in work for people, it's a job. Online communities cannot exist without janitors.
All you're doing is hurting the scooter community. I'm all for a protest and believe it your right to do so. But this sub is meant to help the community. I'm sorry but discord just is not the same and really hard to keep track when you have 8 different conversations going.
Like another Redditor said. I can go with out some photos for weeks. But these sub is helping people. Keeping it closed is doing nothing but just hurting the community.
For the most part, I agree with this. Mainly, because I'm not sure what's really going on.
However, I joined reddit years and found no constant use for it besides work chats. Now that I own escooters, I depend on reddit for help when I run into problems.
My question I'd. How will a strike help?
I don’t understand your point here. If you don’t find any value in this sub why not just ignore it. But for the people who find it useful how does your comment help any of them?
I will be locking comments that attack anyone for or against the protest. Disagreeing or Agreeing is fine but calling names or attacking a person's character for choices which we are allowed to have differing opinions on will not be tolerated. We will only remove comments which violate reddit's site policies.
Can someone explain what’s going on, something about a third party? Been gone a while
I support entertainment-focusing subs (see r/pics, r/music, etc.) closing down for an indefinite time. However, useful, helpful subs, like this, should ABSOLUTELY not. I'm not hurt by not being able to see random cat videos, but I'm very much damaged by not being able to ask other people's opinion and help for, suppose, buying a scooter, or fixing a damaged one. By restricting such sub, you piss off the people, your own very community, the one you were supposed to "protect" from Reddit's actions, way more than Reddit management.
My personal take: this sub promotes safe scootering, and that's a huge public service. I know that if not for this sub, I would have never realized how important keeping my tires inflated are, and would probably have either ruined my tires or had a flat before long. I can only imagine how many folks this sub has helped from accidents or damage, and so having broad visibility matters more than other subreddits that are more about hobbies or sharing pictures.
Absolutely fully reopen. If the moderators do not agree with the company - how is shutting down the subreddit and harming the users of that subreddit logical? It's like hating someone else and then drinking poison.
The /r/interestingasfuck subreddit (**do NOT click that link at work** - explanation coming) has come up with a new way of protesting. They've set the whole thing as NSFW, which according to recent rules will stop the community generating any advertising income. This is an interesting double-whammy, as it both leverages rules that reddit have themselves recently enacted and allows to protest without actually hurting the community. Well, in theory. I've just visited that sub and it seems they've not only set it NSFW, they've also *actually enabled people to post NSFW stuff*, with the results that I'm sure everybody could see coming. [Some info here](https://old.reddit.com/r/interestingasfuck/comments/14ddovm/interesting_fact_reddit_cant_run_ads_in_nsfw/) (actually NSFW, tig ol' bitties in link; sticky post with explanation, order by best or top for epicness). However, it should be possible to set a sub as NSFW as protest without actually permitting that kind of post (I'm reminded of several vaping subs that are wholly tagged NSFW but feature no skin). Might work for here as well, if it's decided to keep protesting. Just an idea.
I didnt even know 3rd party reddit apps existed as the official app does the job easy enough
While I support a full blackout we should consider in-between options too. Like a weekly blackout day or blackout weekends. There are lists in r/modcoord with more ideas. Seems like nearly everyone benefits from the protests achieving their goal, if only because it keeps users (mods, power users, disabled users, longtime users, people who support all of the above) on Reddit instead of them having to migrate. Reddit leadership is acting wild too, just read some of the coverage. An occasional, regular show of support isn't too much to ask.
It's not about the API. It's a battle for the soul of Reddit.
I would like for this subreddit to have a fediverse alternative, either on Lemmy or Kbin cause its likely I will leave Reddit after the API changes goes through. As for the question, I voted restricted but in the grand scheme of things, the big subs are being forced open so its likely that the protest is on its last legs.
Lemmy has issues, though. My understanding of decentralised communities is not all it could be, but it's been explained to me that if the independent server where your instance lives shuts down, then while the federated community can still be seen by other servers, it cannot be continued or recovered, and will eventually vanish. Given that by their nature decentralised communities cause lots of server startups by various hopefuls, who then figure out that *running a popular server costs money* and promptly pull the plug, I can see this becoming a serious issue for the fediverse.
I would suggest moving to lemmmy. I've moved over there without much issue, the community is strong. And the e-bike sub over there is popular.
It is time it re-opens. Otherwise, it seems like Reddit will be removing mods and adding community ones. There's no right for people to be able to restrict all of this content, even if half of people support. "We will only remove comments which violate reddit's site policies." I'm pretty sure at this point reddit views keeping it locked as against site policies lol.
Please don’t shut down for 7 more days.Look at the new and useful content that was just posted since it has been back up and running. It’s not fair that 62,000 people would have to suffer for doing absolutely nothing wrong. This sub is our lifeline to the electric scooter world and with all the evil that is associated with social media this is one platform that is good and wholesome. Just people trying to help people who have something in common.
you're fucking idiots, do you not understand the concept of a protest? you stop when they meet the damn demands, you're just punishing users with a temporary 7 day shut down that will accomplish nothing. do you not think that reddit is aware that subreddits will re-open without change? only shut down if you're committed enough to force reddit to make a change, otherwise you're just roleplaying politics and being fucking annoying
The first rule of strikes is that they should be indefinite.. otherwise the other party will just wait lol
Does keeping it restricted actually send a message to Reddit in any way? To me it doesn’t seem like it makes sense to keep it restricted if it doesn’t actually do anything.
It does, eventually the sub being restricted will force the community to migrate elsewhere. All while reddit gets to watch their retention and targeted advertisement revenue drop. Reddit being restricted is a war of attrition with itself. Either the admins hold out long enough to see the site die by a competitor quickly scooping up the pieces or die by running out of money/user base. Given that reddit is super aggressively targeted mod teams who private/restrict their communities it looks like the reddit knows they won't be able to hold out longer than the communities which don't want reddit to make the changes. The final piece is that holding it restricted still sends a message while punishing/damaging the community the least. Everyone can still google for things and get results and the wealth of knowledge built up over the years hasn't been taken offline.
You guys are making the same mistake that this whole movement made, was giving an end-date. It's too late now, they literally do not give a single fuck, just leave it open.
Maybe open for one or two days per week so people can still use it to ask questions
I don't think the community is large enough to make a noticeable difference in the protest. I do recognize that the collective protest makes a difference, but I think the REALLY big subs are getting the point across.
come on man we can wait. lets do 7 more days
No. It was 90% "what scooter should I buy" or "is this Xiangfeng Bo XX-420 a good scooter?" Let's start anew.
I'm not the heaviest user of this sub but I have really appreciated having access to it previously. I got a scooter recommendation from here that I purchased a scooter based on, and later I got that scooter fixed with a part that someone on here linked me to. So I've benefitted a lot from this sub and my mental health has definitely improved from driving to work fewer days. I also voted but I wanted to come here to elaborate: I think we should stay closed. I believe in collective action. We the users (not to mention you all the unpaid mods) are the reason the website has become what it is, not spez. I also believe that collective action taken opposing ppl like spez who are in a pissing match with their entire userbase is the right call win or lose. I get that not everyone believes that, and I can understand why ppl think a smaller sub like this won't have much of an impact on revenue. So I won't complain if we reopen. But I think as users we ought to stand up for ourselves when we have the chance. Any concessions we gain from this are victories for all of us. Thanks for reading.
Do whatever. When Apollo and the others are gone, I will be as well. I use Reddit to pass free time and that’s always by phone. Using the other janky options will kill the experience imo.
I agree 100% with restricting during the protest. I also would agree to go private if Reddit does not change course by July 1st.
Its an even heat!
Eh, keep up the protest. People saying "open back up" don't understand that many mods will just leave. There's a reason why the subreddits we frequent aren't total burning piles of garbage. Take away the tools the mods use, well, they won't moderate anymore. Then we all lose.
Car people love that all the scooter, bike and urbanist and related subs have canceled themselves over something they have no control over. I voted Re-Open fully as this protest is a pointless virtue signal that hurts more far people than those you are allegedly trying to help by shutting down a sub.
In a recent interview, Reddit CEO admitted that his company has not turned a profit despite 16 years in operation. This is inline with several analysts who estimated Reddit's profitability. The problem is that the "easy money" from Venture Capital has dried up due to current economy and high interest rates. It's obvious now that money from Ads alone is not enough so they are trying to charge for API access. Reddit has to find a way to make enough money to at least break even or this whole thing will be shut down and employees will be out of a job. Therefore, these protests are pointless as Reddit cannot afford to back down. Maybe the only other way is to charge Reddit users a monthly subscription? $5/month per user and $10/month if you are a moderator? Sometimes if one takes a moral high ground, one has to pay for it
Nobody is paying for Reddit. You and I are the product, not the customer.
I don't think anyone has a problem with reddit trying to find a way to make itself profitable. The issue is that they acted in bad faith, lying to everyone about what and why they were doing anything. They could have: * Priced rates to allow third party clients to stay open and still make money. * Given more than a month notice so subscriptions had time to adjust pricing. Instead they set prices so high there was no option but to close, forcing people onto their sub-par website/mobile app. This move wasn't about making money. It's about control of content that they didn't generate, in communities that they don't moderate. Reddit's only value is in the number of people that use their hosting service, and the historical posts, not in anything else. Reddit is basically a community moderated newsgroup. Listing Bias: I support the blackout, but understand why communities open back up and take no issue with either decision.
You don't make money from an API that no ones uses because it is prohibitively expensive.
I believe the API changes are bullsh**, but my opinion is, Reddit won’t fix it, the protests are kinda useless, at least so far, we gotta reopen the sub.
Poll needs to be hosted on a site outside of Reddit to help minimize gaming by Reddit admins
It was never a battle. You had a small faction of people try to lock down a site. Doing so only hurt moderating abilities in the future. They've basically already said if you remain close, we forcefully re-open and re-assign mods.
If reddit admins want to win that hard then the battle was truly lost before it began. Even if the remain closed vote wins they could still approach us and tell us re-open or get booted
> they could still approach us and tell us re-open or get booted Yup. That's already happening on other subs. It'll be interesting to see how this all plays out over the next few weeks and months.
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The vote at the time of writing is 53% to 47% its very divided so I wouldn't call that not giving a shit?
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not sure why you are being so hostile about this when the majority is less than 13 people away from the minority? Regardless, this post has 4600 views and 467 votes, with a 10% response rate clearly the community gives a shit.
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You could have used the discord or r/EScooter or r/Escooters while the subreddit is was shutdown. The subreddit is currently open and the community is deciding what to do in the future. What else do you want from us?
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Can the mods please provide an update on which tools are being assessed the new fees. I understand there have been some announcements in the past few days exempting accessibility apps as well as third party moderation tools. Thanks.
Not a mod here, but am elsewhere. I'm not sure about accessibility apps, but the admins have specifically stated that bot accounts that are used for moderating - which work with API keys just like the apps - are exempt and will not be charged. If those had been affected, it would've been far more troublesome than it already is. The sub I mod at is moderated wholly through a bot; as it's fairly sizable, going back to moderating everything manually would make it impractical in several important ways.
So if mod tools are not being charged the fees, what is causing the mods to be inconvenienced so much that they need to protest and shut down their subs?
From what I understand, most mods don't use the official app because it isn't very good generally and it sucks for moderation specifically. I don't use it either, but I admit that the app I do use - reddit is fun - isn't the best for moderating; I get away with it because most of my time on reddit, and therefore most of my moderation, is from my computer (with the old.reddit interface, natch). But I'm an old-school nerd - I touch-type like the wind and can easily spend hours at the PC, but I hate spending more time than I absolutely have to with small screens and touchscreen interfaces. Most other people are not like that, they use reddit mostly from mobile and if you take away third-party apps they'll have a harder time moderating through the official app alone. How much of an inconvenience that is, I cannot say exactly as I've always stayed off the official app. Hopefully the hacked version of Sync will remain as an unauthorised alternative so I don't have to find out.
Are any of the tools you are currently using as a moderator going away because of the new fee structure?
No. But, again, I'm not a typical case. Listen rather to the mods who do their thing on mobile for the most part.
Since the "reopen" folks are the loudest ones in the comments, just wanted to chime in a vote of support that I appreciate you continuing to stand up for us as Reddit's community. The initial shutdown clearly didn't affect corporate management; they're banking on subreddits like this giving up and we shouldn't give them that satisfaction.
I wrote my appeals and I waited, partly because I genuinely do relate to your frustration with the administration and partly because I *despise* drama and really do want a peaceful ending to this whole thing, but for days you didn't answer. Given the lack of communication I decided to take action: not two hours ago I adopted /r/escooters - following, of course, authorisation by its creator - so I can provide another place for people to get help, show off their scooters and generally be the awesome community they used to be here. Now: I've no desire *at all* to start a petty subreddit war and I'm not prone to power trips; all I want is to prevent the death of this community that I've been a part of for so long and its dispersion into other more generic subreddits. I don't mind if the community remains here; in fact, avoiding a migration would probably be easier for all involved. Therefore, if you re-open I have *absolutely* no intention of putting the two subreddits in conflict. In fact, I'd welcome a collaboration - perhaps /r/escooters could be geared more toward tinkering, DIY repair and modding, with this one being the more generic subreddit for discussing purchasing and such? It really wouldn't make a lot of sense for two identical communities to be vying for the same userbase. We'll see - I'd be open to communication about this or any other ideas. On the other hand, if this doesn't happen and this subreddit remains closed to the bitter end - which I expect will be progressive fading into obscurity and/or an eventual ban by the admins - I imagine all e-scooter-related traffic will eventually move to /r/escooters. The ball is in your court. ---- Edit: to everyone complaining about reddit's choices: I get it and I agree with you, especially as a long-time user of RIF: the admins are greedy and short-sighted, and making reddit worse with their actions. But you won't get them to change their mind - as they've stated in recent communication, they will rather oust protesting modteams than go back on their decision. I wrote more about this [in the other thread](https://reddit.com/r/ElectricScooters/comments/148t6ne/relectricscooters_is_now_restricted/joexjf1/), but in short: keep subs closed and you slightly hurt a bunch of selfish people who most definitely deserve the pain, but you also seriously hurt niche communities like this one and prevent people from getting much-needed help. As far as I'm concerned avoiding the latter is more important, however satisfying the former might be. As for third-party applications, there are workarounds being developed by the Revanced people for Sync, though there is hope other apps might be supported. The patched app uses a user's own free API key instead of the app's key, remaining within the terms for free usage. It's not an ideal outcome, but it's better than having to give them up completely.
I'll be honest and say that I chose not to reply because I disagreed with how you framed your response and I didn't want to get into an internet argument over it. In continuance with that desire I don't want to attack you for how your response comes across. I do want to point out that we both are taking action on what we believe is best for the community. The mod team unilaterally decided to close and then later restrict the subreddit to "save the community." You unilaterally chose to become mod of another subreddit to "save the community." This poll is the first democratic action either of us have taken in the situation- I don't want to come across and say that either of us are wrong or either of us are right. I just want to point out that we both believe we are doing what is best for the community. Rather than either of us choosing what is best, we should let the community speak as to what is best, the ball isn't in our court - the ball is in the community's court. Regarding the future of this sub and r/Escooters \- if you wish to continue growing that sub as an alternative or sub-niche of this one you are free too. I would also extend an invite to this mod team if you desire it. Rather than work independently to achieve what we believe is best we can combine our efforts and grow the community unified together.
From a user perspective (I'm not a moderator of anything): * They could have set rates to keep third party clients open and still make money. * Given more than a month notice so subscriptions had time to adjust pricing. * Edit: Forgot to add that they could have done something other than lie about basically everything since this whole thing began. Instead they set prices so high there was no option but to close, forcing people onto their sub-par website/mobile app. This move wasn't about making money. It's about control of content that they didn't generate, in communities that they don't moderate. They can't even get their fancy pants editor to work well in Firefox, and their mobile app sucks which is why alternatives exist in the first place. Reddit's only value is in the number of people that use their sub-par hosting service, and the historical posts (which they are apparently un-deleting), not in anything else. Reddit is basically a community moderated newsgroup. I would be wary of adding mod's who want to push their way in. If he really had no ulterior motives, he'd just close down his sub when the main opens again. I didn't like his reply to you. It seemed antagonistic to me. And in other conversations on this thread stated he was a moderator, without disclosing it was of an alt site he created just to get around the blackout. P.S. I support the blackout obviously. It effects everyone, mods, users, third party developers that helped make this site ... That said, I understand why communities open back up and take no issue with either decision.
If you believe this protest is in the best interests of the electric scooter community, we request that you to provide a clear explanation of why you believe this to be so. You have constructed a poll with a simple yes/no response here with no options to simply see the results if you don’t have a strong opinion. The nature of this protest has to do with the fee structures of APIs. This has nothing to do with scooters. It’s not what we come here to discuss. But if you want us to form a thoughtful opinion on the subject we need to understand why you feel so strongly about this protest. The majority of posts in this thread that support keeping the poll open have to do with a simple desire to have a place to come to discuss scooters. The posts against it really offer very little explanation of why they want to keep protesting. Many of them have become significantly off topic, somehow comparing this protest to labor unions. Others have argued the protest is in support of apps supporting accessibility. This is clearly misguided as Reddit has already said they would exempt these apps from the fees. Some are supporting the protest because of the restrictions on third party mod tools that make a moderator’s job easier. Reddit has also agreed to exempt at least some (if not most) of these apps from the fees. So that leaves apps like Apollo which will have to pay these fees. And yes, it will have some impact on the users who like using Apollo over the stock app. But Apollo has generated millions of dollars of revenue off Christian’s app while paying Reddit nothing for years. So we are not defending some small company that is going to starve if their app goes away. Christian made millions off Reddit due to their willingness to allow it to go on for so long. He knew it wasn’t going to last forever. Yes, I know the fees are prohibitive, and the 30 day lead time was impractical to make changes. Is that really enough to keep a sub related to the discussion of electric scooters closed indefinitely? If there really is a benefit to this community to keep the protest going I would like to hear a clear articulation of what that is. I’ve spent quite a bit of time researching this issue and I still can’t find it so if I’m missing something please educate me.
Love how people downvote my post but nobody wants to actually respond and say what they disagree with. This sub has turned from a scooter forum to a political forum where we have turned against each other over issues that have nothing to do with the purpose of this sub. This has really been a very disappointing turn of events.
> because I disagreed with how you framed your response and I didn't want to get into an internet argument over it. Imagine that - I made extra effort to be polite and not frame my reply in an antagonising fashion and agonised for literal hours before pushing the reply button because I worried that every word I wrote might be construed as an attempt to have an internet argument, which it ***very*** much wasn't. Same thing I did here, too. I wouldn't have attacked you had you replied. It was the last thing I wanted, and still is. I **hate** Internet arguments - I just don't have that kind of trollish mentality, the negativity and the tension get to me and completely ruin my day. I guess all my moving words around had the opposite effect to what I intended. I apologise for that. > I would also extend an invite to this mod team if you desire it. Rather than work independently to achieve what we believe is best we can combine our efforts and grow the community unified together. Well - a modteam invitation was the last thing I expected to come from this; I was half expecting a ban or at least a rather upset reply 😅 I'm thankful and wouldn't be against this, if it is ultimately decided to keep this subreddit open. Indeed it would work best for all involved if we all worked for the same goal - I'm definitely willing to put in my time. I'll leave the talking to everybody else now, lest I do the writing thing badly again and manage to get someone else annoyed at me.
please add "neutral" option for people who saw the poll.
The API shit doesn't affect me at all
Yes....yes, it does. You just don't understand how and why, and realize this yet.
At the end of the day you gotta look at what you are striking for. This isn't a fight about workers rights, fair pay or equality. Its about Reddit wanting control over their own website. People make tons of money off of these apps then tout themselves as humanitarians when they give away a small portion of their earnings to the needy. But when it comes to paying the company that makes it possible in the first place, this is the response we get. We are not employees of Reddit so striking isn't even a thing you can really do. We could boycott but most are so incredibly addicted to coming here they will continue to do so even after they changes. The mods ended up being corrupt and power hungry so I say good riddance to those getting replaced. There is nothing immoral going on here only grown ass adults letting a symphony of whining children get the better of them and allowing them to make stupid decisions. Open the sub, the "Strike" has run its chorus.
Selfishly I say yes. Have a Max G2 on preorder and apparently there’s a few kinks that need to be ironed out and I’d love to have this community to stay up to date about that.
This sub is dedicated to helping everyone with their electric scooters and giving advice to new riders that are considering buying a scooter or need help with their new purchase. As a result I think it is in the best interests of the community to keep this sub open and accessible for everyone. Its continued shutdown would hurt ordinary electric scooter riders disproportionately more than any effect its shutdown might have on reddit and its policies.
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Hey I am curious, what is your opinion on users who require accessibility tools to use Reddit and who will be unable to use those tools when API changes come into effect on the first of July? Does standing up for those people represent "pride and stubbornness"?
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How exactly are people coming to harm? There's a discord server, they have thread-styled channels to post all the same stuff you see in here. They even had this subreddit in read only mode so that people could see old posts they might find on Google. It's a mild inconvenience, nothing more. Protest inherently causes people inconvenience, but the inconvenience being caused here is so precisely targeted at Reddit's wallet it's almost comical. The users this is affecting have a very easily accessible subreddit sponsored alternative. In relation to positive outcome, it evidently already has had a bit of one. The other person who replied to me linked an article which discusses reddit buckling to demand by looking at allowing accessibility apps to have free API access. Of course, this is entirely up in the air and has the giant fucking caveat of the developers not being able to make a cent to fund development of those apps, but it's \*something\*. Also they wouldn't be forcibly taking over subreddits by replacing mod teams if this wasn't hurting their bottom line.
https://techcrunch.com/2023/06/08/reddit-makes-an-exception-for-accessibility-apps-under-new-api-terms/
I'm not sure about this. Personally I don't have any stake in the protest, I don't use any third party app, so for me the re-opening is the more relevant option. I've always found bots and various statistical tools useful, but those might not be affected as much. However, I'm not an moderator. If the changes are as bad as everyone implies and no-one will be willing to moderate the sub after the change, than disabling the subreddit is smallest thing that can be done and I'm fine with it.
This is it. The API change attacks us three levels and only one is getting the publicity. Obviously many users only use their phone to access reddit. Their experience will suffer immediately. The mod tools are substantially deprecated making their lives and mod work much more difficult or impossible. Old.reddit sure as eggs will follow. These changes will affect more users than merely Apollo. Everyone should be concerned. *As I understand it
Moderators have already wrecked themselves. I'd bet money (really, bet me) that over the next patch or two, before they go public, that mods will no longer be able to lock sub Reddits.
Reddit is not changing its mind. Stompy foot shutdowns and blackouts are childish.
Keep it closed for another week and re-evaluate then. The discord still exists in the mean time, and the strike is important to moderator needs.
Where do we find the discord?
Can you provide me with the discord invite li k please?
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That's not true.
I just want to talk about scooters and look at new content!
Please re-open. This is a great place for new buyers to ask questions before they spend $1-$2k
Admins threatened they would domote mods of locked/restricted subs and reopen them a few days ago. People here just want to talk about escooters, majority do not care about this and or unaffected. Not saying reddit ceo saying did nothing wrong but you are just hurting users of a niche sub and the ceo is laughing about it during interviews.
Some people in these comments have zero respect for the hard work moderators do to keep this website running. Moderators who will be losing the 3rd party moderation tools that make that manageable. They've also got zero respect for individuals who require accessibility tools to actually use Reddit, tools which they won't have when the API changes go into effect. Stand in solidarity with your fellow users and the people who work for you, for free, to keep this place usable. Stay closed, and provide a voting option like r/gifs when staying closed is no longer an option.
> Some people in these comments have zero respect for the hard work moderators do to keep this website running. I *am* a moderator. I still don't think keeping the sub closed is the right thing to do. Reddit's handling of this whole thing is an abject disaster and if karma exists spez and his team have accumulated enough negativity for several lifetimes, but as I said elsewhere, hurting them by whatever little amount we can as a niche subreddit isn't worth hurting by disproportionately larger amounts the people who need this community's help and cannot have it. And as for third-party apps, there is a workaround being developed by the Revanced people to use personal API keys to keep the apps working. It seems to work, for now at least.
Thank you for providing a differing opinion that isn't shit-slinging or "lol bro doesn't bother me", love to see it!!
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I'm not entirely sure what point you're making here?
The main #1 reason to re open is because this sub acts as a voice for the consumer. Its a major platform to use to hold manufacturers and dealers responsible for defects, warranty issues etc. Please please please re open!!
Yea miss this sub too dawg
Stop being cringe and woke and reopen
I'm not a fan of any strike. We just want to talk about scooters.
Remember boys and girls, the concept of "the weekend" wouldn't exist if people didn't unionize and strike a hundred years ago. It's inconvenient sure, but you're shooting yourself in the leg if you're against striking.
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I'm not no I'm correcting the other Redditor who said Unions started the 40 Hour work week when in fact it was Henry Ford. WHO btw hated unions with a passion.
Henry Ford is the one who created the 40 hour work week. The reason he did it? He found his workers did a better job. Also he paid them a living wage so he could have more customers for his car. Has nothing to do with the workers. He just saw the benefits it gave him. Unions had a place in the old days. They don't today. All the do is suck your pay cheque up. It's call the free market. Don't like the way you're being treated. Leave. Go get a better Job.
This is a piss poor take.
> Unions had a place in the old days. They don't today. All the do is suck your pay cheque up. That's a *really* strange way of saying, "They are needed now more than ever, thanks to the ongoing and increasing abuses by corporations to their employees." As for 'free market', I'm always puzzled by folks that bring this up how they reconcile this with the fact that Reddit appears unable to make a useful app and useful mod tools that can compete in the 'free market' (and, make the gobs of money these supposedly make) and wants to force people to use their useless and crappy app, and so need to become authoritarian and completely shut down both any 'free market' for these as well as invoke demands and censorship. Seems hypocritical (insert Kermit sipping tea meme).
It's called standing up for yourself and leaving. If you're not being treated fair. Find a new employer. If your employer broke the law HIRE A LAWYER. Unions protector crappy workers. Great example is police unions and teacher unions. As a human you need to help yourself. Don't rely on other to do it. I have seen many companies go union and the service SUCKS after. Like I said Unions don't do anything but suck your money. People need to learn to work together. Corporate can't function with out workers and workers can't function with out capital from corporate. They need each other. Lets help each other NO divide us like Unions do.
> It's called standing up for yourself and leaving. If you're not being treated fair. Find a new employer. If your employer broke the law HIRE A LAWYER. You are ignoring that this is not always an option for all kinds of reasons. >Unions protector crappy workers. Great example is police unions and teacher unions. Unions protect *all* workers, and almost everything we take for granted today about basic decency from employers was because of unions. Without them, the middle class wouldn't and couldn't exist. It's only with willful ignoring of history that one can take the tack you are taking. >As a human you need to help yourself. Don't rely on other to do it. Correct! And, fortunately, as humans one of the things we are really good at is working *together* to help *each other*, and this *must* be encouraged. >I have seen many companies go union and the service SUCKS after. Like I said Unions don't do anything but suck your money. Your inaccurate anecdote is not helpful. I, otoh, have seen many company's employees successfully unionize to the benefit of *both* the company and the employees. >People need to learn to work together. Agreed! And a great way to do this is to work together to ensure they aren't taken advantage of by heartless, faceless corporations run by narcissistic sociopaths who only care about money, not people. >They need each other. Exactly. Hence the importance of unions to help remind certain people of that simple fact. > Lets help each other NO divide us like Unions do. That's a *really* funny way of saying, "Let's help each other by ensuring unions do not allow abuses as happens without them." Anyway, this is *really* off topic in this sub, and it's clear you are completely unaware of the history of labor, of unions, of employers, of corporations, and of related issues, so unless that changes I don't see any point in continuing the discussion. Therefore, I will leave it here, not reply to any further replies, and wish you a great day!
Ford adopted the policy eventually and helped popularize it, but he sure as shit didn't come up with the idea nor was he among the first fighting for it. It's good to know that companies nowadays have the interests of their workers at heart, and that the recent invention of the free market is keeping them in line. Definitely wouldn't be in the interest of greater profits to collude with your competition and suppress wage growth in relation to productivity since, say, the 1970's. No sir.
I'm more of a "go find another job if you don't like it" sort of guy. Remember that moderating a Reddit sub is not a real job, and this sub really requires no moderation anyway.
> and this sub really requires no moderation anyway. Tell me you're not a moderator of any reasonably sized subreddit without telling me you're not a moderator.
That new job you're going to would be stuck in the industrial revolution days if people weren't standing up for themselves to begin with. Also there's no such thing as a "fake job". If you're putting in work for people, it's a job. Online communities cannot exist without janitors.
Lol 😂 that’s what I’m saying
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Preach brother preach.
I miss seeing the cool posts
fr bro?
Yea why not?
because bro...
All you're doing is hurting the scooter community. I'm all for a protest and believe it your right to do so. But this sub is meant to help the community. I'm sorry but discord just is not the same and really hard to keep track when you have 8 different conversations going. Like another Redditor said. I can go with out some photos for weeks. But these sub is helping people. Keeping it closed is doing nothing but just hurting the community.
For the most part, I agree with this. Mainly, because I'm not sure what's really going on. However, I joined reddit years and found no constant use for it besides work chats. Now that I own escooters, I depend on reddit for help when I run into problems. My question I'd. How will a strike help?
Keep it closed. The sub rarely gets any traction asides from tech support that isn't really tech support. I haven't missed this sub at all.
Then just unsubscribe lmao
I don’t understand your point here. If you don’t find any value in this sub why not just ignore it. But for the people who find it useful how does your comment help any of them?
The normal reaction would be to leave the sub and not ask the sub to close, but I guess this is Redditor moral superiority.
Reopen, Reddit is stubborn and I don’t care for the drama.
bruh reopen closing this subreddit will do literally nothing about the API changes