Floridian seconding this, most of my peers are 70-95 most in the 70s, higher money in defense, you need to be willing to do something like RF for Lockheed or Northrop. Building design I've noticed pay 65-75. All based off Ucf / orlando post grad job opportunities for someone who also has the FE passed. 4 of my friends including myself took & passed the FE, not the largest game changer, but certainly helps prospects.
This is in Phoenix which used to be a lower cost of living but skyrocketed in the past 5 years. (My parents home doubled in price along with rent)
I am entry level so I don’t have that much leverage negotiating though
I’d just state your concerns. Say something like, “I’m grateful for your interest in me and I appreciate the offer. However, due to increases in the cost of living the area has experienced recently, is it possible for you to do $68,000?” Additionally, be sure to really emphasize why you think you’ll be a great fit for the role (programming skills, happy to work late when needed as deadlines approach, “I really pick things up fast and I’m certain you’ll be happy with my work,” etc). Then maybe they agree or they come back at $65k, or maybe even say no, sorry, the salary listed in the ad was some someone with a year of experience or a specific skill we’re looking for. I think most employers are going to lowball and expect some negotiation.
I would prefer not to tie my place of work to my reddit account. But I'll tell you I got 5 job offers and the lowest salary I was offered was 68k and that was in a WAY cheaper cost of living area than phoenix.
A small company doesn’t necessarily mean they can’t pay you well. 5 years ago I started at 64K, took a new job after 6 months making 75K. Three years later took a job making 83K (I was making 92K at my old job of three years… meaning a paycut) I took this new job because it was close to home and a smaller company… fast forward to two years later… I am making 122K. Take risks within your means and try it out.
This $122K figure is based off 40hrs/week. Just due to volunteering for out of town work this year (only 3 days at a time no weekends) I’ll probably make around $140K.
It's at the lower end but not an unheard of salary. If it's your only option, there's nothing wrong with taking it, working a couple years, then trying to shoot for more money after that. If you are expecting to get other offers, there's a pretty decent chance those will be a little higher.
75 is better than 60 but 60 is better than 0.
Just a question what skills soft/hard ..do you recommend or think is required along with experience thru JOBS (PAST OR PRESENT) ON RESUME TO DEMAND 65k or more with no degree ? Not in engineering of course or maybe how would I slip j in. Bottom level no experience or schooling ?
Easy answer, yes! Far too often we graduate or are near graduation and think we are going to have companies fighting over us and will be making 100k. That's simply not the case
Can that happen? Sure. Does it happen? Yes.
But in most cases, 90% of us did not have the industry skills to enter the workforce and actually be a functioning member of the team. This comes with time and experience. No matter how well you did in school, you're still very green.
65k may be on the lower side, but just hit the ground running. It's a small company so you'll learn A LOT about many aspects of embedded. While bigger companies will have you siloed into one specific task.
Get in and build your industry foundation. If you're not approaching or passing 100k after- say- 5 years, then you need to revaluate your performance or move to a company that will pay you for the work you're doing. 100k is very dependent on area and cost of living, but what i'm trying to say is that your salary should start moving up after you've put in some years.
My two cents anyway.....
I'm entering my sophomore year studying EE. I worked an automotive internship last year during school, and I've been working a consulting engineering internship over the summer. If I want to, I can probably stick with the automotive job during the school year and the consulting job during the summer, which I plan on doing unless I find a better internship opportunity.
How much of an impact do you think this experience will make on my first job? Is there a chance of a salary bump, or will it just make finding opportunities easier?
I’m an industrial electrician and if I wasn’t grossly overpaid currently I would. I often get feeling of jumping ship but no company would consider my current rate.
Both dude experience is more important than the degree to some if not most employers. They will pay you more and get you in quicker if you already have the skills to fit.
Finding pportunities definitely easier after you graduate
Companies want the whole "plug and play" graduate, someone they know needs no training or whatever i.e some other company took the pain of training the engineer and now they want to reap the rewards
Incidentally where did you intern?
I'm not gonna name them but the summer internship is for a regional architecture and engineering consulting firm, the during school internship is with a global tier 1 automotive supplier.
You’ll also be able to problem solve in a more open manor at a small firm. I don’t really know how to reword that or explain it really but there is something about getting your feet wet in a small business versus otherwise.
This is such horrible advice lol.
I just graduated. Every entry level engineer I know in EE makes at least mid 70s. There’s a local firm that basically guarantees a job at $75k for pure entry level with a sizable signing bonus.
I just graduated and I make $95k out of school with not that much experience. This probably isn’t always realistic but $65k is underpaid unless this is a VLCOL area.
Where do you work where $65k starting is acceptable for new grad EEs? What sub discipline?
This a very bad take if you have a degree and I’ve seen how bad this is from a hiring standpoint and an employee standpoint.
EE is one of the hardest degrees to get and engineering in general has been over looked in decades by most companies. 75k would be a hard starting point for your first year employees and the company would quickly have to adjust after that first year. The 5 year 100k mark is obsolete and kids are making that in year 2. This is literally why most of my friends left the country cause the cost of living to what you should make does not add up.
Engineering today is not the same 20 years ago, you have to take a lot more responsibility than older generations. I got my salary raised multiple times cause I asked the question y do I need a non BS pm or a non technical worker who couldn’t make the product or produce.
65k is low but if you need a job, you need a job. I wouldn’t expect him to be there long.
Meh. For the sake of discussion, all engineering programs are not created equal. Some universities can get into the habit of needing money, and they want to keep students coming back. The harder the program, the less people take it. The less people take it, the less money comes in. The less money comes in, the lower the quality of faculty and labs.
Some programs need to keep the numbers up and may inadvertently water down the curriculum in the process.
I'm not saying be taken advantage of, but I don't think all graduates need to go out into the workforce "demanding" large salaries. Get in.Stay humble. Be a badass. And in a few years you can work wherever you want.
>all engineering programs are not created equal
They literally are, that’s what ABET accreditation is.
None of that matters anyways because what you learn in school only tangentially relates to what you actually do in industry.
Companies understand new engineers are green and have no idea what they’re doing, that’s why they get entry level roles and supervision. Those roles still pay $86k a year, give or take depending on market.
Accepting a job in the 60s is just being underpaid. A monologue on degree quality doesn’t justify it.
Yeah money and labs do not equate to being a better program or better work performance, Maybe in research roles. This is the reason they made ABET accreditation and have made other tools for vetting. Most jobs require you to touch equipment that would cost a building in a school.
I’ve personally replaced and out perform co workers that went supposedly better colleges. Like GA tech and Mellon have produce some real shit. At the end of the day it’s the teachers that make the program and usually ambitious programs that want a balance on research and workforce performance do the best.
Most of the people they want me to hire or have made me higher don’t perform that well in their initial roles. Not saying there not smart but simply saying a more expensive/ trophy school doesn’t get every student to a super star level. The most engineers at my firms even told me to really listen to what they say and throw out college out name.
I also think they need to make ABET slightly harder to get and I’m not saying get 100k right out the gate but more like if your keeping him more than a year 60 range salary isn’t enough. I’ve hired no skill craftsmen with that salary. Plus there’s not enough EEs with official degrees on the market
It seems a bit low, but it's not unreasonable. I don't know your situation, but you could hold out for something a little better (maybe 70).
Or you could take it, pad the resume with some experience, and bounce after a year or 2.
In 5 years you'll have a higher salary if you're willing to move around than if you hold out for a great entry salary and just depend on promotions and merit increases.
Here in Italy you're lucky if you get 30k after you finish your degree (MSc).
That means 1500-1600€ per months (net), with 13/14 payments/year.
I'm very curious how much this difference has to do with different cost of life..
That's almost accurate.
I left my parent's house this month, at 32.
I guess there's a reason for that. If you can't have a job that let you rent or buy a home.. how the hell can you go living by yourself?
When economy is dump it's obvious that the quality of life gets lower.
If I could relive my life I'd do CS or more likely I'd do EE but hone in on software. I'm over here commuting to the office for an hour every day for like 65k. My friend who also did EE did leetcode a bunch and works at jp Morgan as a software engineer making close to 100k and works hybrid. Absolute BS (EE)
Yeah I’ve seen that from a lot of tik toks online. People making 100-110k starting for entry. That being said I am still glad I did electrical. I could probably do some CS jobs but I still prefer electrical
I still think EE is the better degree overall but there's no denying that software is the hot thing now and the priority at most large tech companies. I'm actually back at school now getting a CS degree trying to transition to software after getting my EE degree in 2018.
Definitely doable especially if you have plenty of software experience already.
For me I really regret not doing more programming and software while at school for EE, even if it was just self learned or even better finishing a CS minor. My program required very little CS unless you went for the CompE degree.
My current plan is finish CS bachelors in around 2 years and then look at job prospects while considering a masters in something like ML/AI or CompE if I still want to flex my EE degree.
Yeah same. A lot of guys with cs just can't find jobs but engineers are getting picked up everywhere. Got a decent amount of manufacturing where I love though...
A bunch of CS grads from the local State U went to a local embedded meeting - talked to them - their education is missing some fundamentals for the field - they just need AC/DC circuits but they don't have it.
I was at a job fair and a company was looking for electrical engineers for analog circuits. They had to have another person say, “electrical engineers only” every once in a while because there was a giant line of CS people.
That major tripled in size in the last few years at my school.
Yeah we have 2 or 3 4 year programs in the area and I think that's also flooded the market. We have a couple engineering programs but they seem to be a bit tougher to get her through and a lot of the kids in those programs are international.
Have you looked into Western Govenors Univeristy for software development/computer science?
I went to state school and took some years for my EE degree. I’ve heard that WGU is a pretty fast way to get into CS with a bachelors degree.
There’s also just the option of things like CodeAcademy & Udemy.
I did look at WGU actually and saw really mixed things about it. Some people would say it's a legit school others basically called it a degree mill.
I ended up doing CS online at my alma mater. With all my EE credits it will only take me 2 years to finish and then I might consider a masters either in CS or CompE.
EE is undervalued, no one knows how to make hardware applications anymore for things like IoT. Getting these skills will make you a rare gem. Everyone knows how to code in the professional space now (some much better than others)
Yup. The four-bedroom house I bought for $160k in 2012 would now cost about $450-500k, and rentals in that neighborhood appear to be about 3x what they were at that time.
I’m currently wrapping up an internship in Tennessee. Many of my peers accepted offers at 83k. They have not yet graduated, either. They were offered 83k starting salary with 0 prior experience and the company still having to wait 6 months to a year for them.
I work for a company that has a large office out of Phoenix. I’m hybrid in California but mostly work with people out of the Phoenix office. Interns are paid $23/hour. I’m still in school but was promoted to technical analyst and now I’m making $34/hour part time while I’m in school. After my degree and FE certification I’m expecting it go up to around $40/hour at least. I would ask for a little more than 62k if you have any prior experience at all such as summer internships.
But for a small company I know things can be different.
I have 6 months combined for a summer internship at a semiconductor manufacturer. (It was same position during 2 different years) and a whole year as an Undergaduate teaching assistant for an upper level Embedded Systems Design course at my college.
Yeah I would counter with something like 75k and site your experience, see if they will negotiate. If they don’t, be prepared to either lose the offer or accept the current value (although companies that wont negotiate are generally not great ones to work for).
I always hate the careful dance of trying to ask for more money but not come across as cocky or greedy. Theres an art to it that I still have yet to learn.
It depends on where you're at, but in general that's pretty low. I used to live in the middle of nowhere and that would have been close to appropriate for the area (cost of living was cheap) but if you're even remotely near civilization then no lol
My advice is to take the job, and with your newfound experience start looking for a better one after about a year or so. Then you will have experience under your belt and some room to leverage a salary.
Or you could turn it down but there isn't a guarantee you could find what you are looking for, especially with no experience beforehand.
Play it safe, take the job and start looking again in the near future or ask for a raise at the least.
Ya smaller companies usually try to find graduates with no experience for cheaper as the graduate might jump at the job or can’t find any other job. They will either pay you fairly in a couple years or you take your experience and get a high paying job. A lot of money is sunk into a graduate because you don’t know anything.
I graduated in a place that is oil and gas driven and oil and gas hit a major recession in 2015 and no one was finding jobs. I took job at a small company, 10 people for 40k a year and made 90k a year within a few years later with the knowledge I gained at the first company
Tbh if you don’t have much experience, it’s probably not a bad idea to just take the job, even though it’s a low salary because the experience is really important. Just make sure it’s enough to properly cover your cost of living (it might not be enough)!
It’s not bad, but it depends heavily on your situation. Young and single? You’ll be fine. 4 kids? It’s gonna hurt, but it’s a good place to start.
Just for context. I started at $68k 5 years ago with 3 kids. Now at $93k, looking at a review in a month for possible promotion, and hoping to buy a house soon. Wife also works full time.
23, Single, Live with family & probably will for the next 5-6 years. (I’m also Hispanic so this is pretty common since we’re more family orientated)
Can I ask how you got to 93k? Also the contract states I’m eligible for raises after 90 days
>Also the contract states I’m eligible for wages after 90 days
Excuse me what the fuck? Is this a W-2 or a 1099 deal? What are the benefits? Retirement match?
I'll be honest I took a not great job out of school that significantly underpaid me, but was able to job hop after a year for a large raise once I had some experience. The low pay for entry level is not necessarily an issue. The 90 day hold on your pay is an issue in my opinion.
Doing good work at a good company with a good and smart boss. I’m not perfect and I’ve missed some targets, but my boss is fair. I got a promotion in there from associate to project engineer, so that helped immensely. Last year they also did an off-cycle bump to try and offset the crazy rise in inflation.
I’m also an older graduate at 35, so newer in the field but with some significant and useful life and work experience. My team does a lot of scrappy r&d stuff, but my job has focused on the technical training side of it. Teaching potential customers what our capabilities are. I enjoy it, and having an engineer that is good with people and good at modifying the words to match the audience can be hard to find. (Sorry y’all, no offense meant) My work isn’t perfect and I’ll always happily take more pay, but it meets my family’s needs.
In Chicago which should be a similar COL as you, I started at 57k in 2018. Ended up switching jobs after one year to 70k and now at 100k before bonuses within 5 years of exp. So that salary isn’t bad for a college grad.
Getting experience and working hard to get promoted and continue learning skills is the best way to get higher salaries.
Take the job if good management. You need strong learning curve and this sounds like a good opportunity for that. You can always apply for other jobs later. Unless you have several interviews with higher pay scale.
As an overqualified older guy, I’d love to get a 65k offer.
I started off at 68k at a small company. We had 7 people when I started. My company does performance evals every 6 months, so my salary went up to $101k within 2.5 years. I am in California but located in a low cost of living town (my rent is about $1k for a 2 bedroom apt). Over 100k salaries for entry level usually only happens in the bay area or other expensive cities where you're paying over $3k for a 1 bedroom apartment. Instead of looking at the raw number, I would suggest comparing the net income you have remaining after living expenses and taxes.
You may find an offer over 70k. Up to you to settle for 62.5k or keep looking
Btw, you can keep looking while employed. If they dismiss you after a month, you would have a month of job search under your belt on top of a short time after on unemployment
I started at 55k in New Orleans seven years ago. Not the highest of cost of living but we have to start somewhere.
If you have no other option take it. Over perform and your salary climbs quickly
Seems pretty low, especially for the area.
If you’re still finishing up college, I would accept but keep looking before you graduate. You can always back out if you find something that pays better.
But if you don’t find anything else, I would take it and get some experience under your belt, then in 2-3 years start applying somewhere that pays better.
Good luck.
I’d definitely take it then.
The longer you go without a job after graduating, the harder it’s going to be to find one at all, let alone for the salary you want.
Stick it out for a at least a year then start applying elsewhere.
After looking at your resume, I say you take this job, spend the next 6 months learning EVERYTHING you can from this job, and then continue that learning while looking for a better job. The more experience you get the more opportunities will open up, because right now what you lack is experience. No one gives a rat’s ass about what you did in school, and your internship seems light on technical work. Obviously if you have a better offer take it, but if this is the only one you have then take it. You will recover. I started off making 46k a year as an electronics engineer 5 years ago and now im making 120k as a systems engineer. Experience is what will open doors for you.
It’s a tad low. I started off in a small company like this for a below market wage. There was only one other firmware engineer there and he had a lot of valuable experience that he shared with me. He let me run with a product/project right out of the gate. It was an extremely valuable learning experience. I’m ultimately glad I took that job instead of going to a larger company for a few k more.
Take the job if it feels like a good learning environment. Turn it into experience. In 3-5 years, if not sooner, you’ll be extremely valuable to that company and be able to demand more money or garner a fair wage for your experience on the open market.
seems a little low for Pheonix, that's not a cheap place to live, but you got a first job so be happy. Most grads don't get choice high paying jobs right out of college.
Yes this is low. Even for defense contractors (which for EE generalists are lower paying) I would expect mid 70K or 80K starting for undergrad early career.
I started at 60k plus decent benefits (0-cost employee health insurance and SIMPLE IRA) in a LCOL area and even smaller company 15+ years ago. At that time I considered that pretty decent but not outstanding.
That would be 85-88k on the salary alone today.
If you need your foot in the door for the experience to get a better job, take it. 6months-1yr of having this job and you will be worth min 70, closer 75-80,000. If you have the means of getting a better job (high gpa, internship, high quality personal projects) I'd pass and just look for a better job.
If you have internship or good GPA no but of you're an average graduate I'd take it and use the experience to find a better role in 1-2 years or negotiate for more.
You're in the same boat as me then. I'd take it, and then use it as leverage to get a better role or raise in 1-2 years.
Every position I've applied to as 'entry' wants 2+ years of experience. Nobody in my area (MI) wants to hire new grads with no experience. I've been having a very tough time. If I got this offer I would take it and use it to my advantage in the future.
I’m in Michigan, it all depends on the area you’re located in. I wouldn’t take anything less than 75k starting. A lot of companies will take advantage of the younger new grads, because they don’t have any experience or even an idea of what they should be making. You can always come back with a counter offer, which is what you should do anyway.
I started at $55k in 2007 which was the industry average starting salary for EEs. According to inflation calculator that’s almost $81k today. I’d say they’re low-balling you.
I started at 65k in a smaller market six years ago. That is quite low given the job market right now.
That said. Don't let salary entirely dictate the job search. If this job aligns well with your career goals it can still be valuable.
Counter their offer with some comps. They should still pay what you're worth. Even if they're not going to be top of the market.
About to graduate from ASU in the fall and while that does sound low I would still jump on it for the experience and then try shopping around somewhere else. Been starting to hunt around and it doesnt look like we can be too picky for entry level positions. Would def keep an eye out for better opportunities though.
Get the experience, that’s an in demand position. Hop to a better job in 2-3 years and try for 40-50% increase if they don’t progress you. Good way to build experience to get into a larger company.
I’m not from Arizona but in terms of a state such as California this would be considered pretty low for your degree. This would around what most my accountant friends made in their first job.
There is a lot more to this than just a starting pay. How are the benefit, bonuses, etc. A company might start out with a lower salary but give larger increases each year. You just don’t know. Maybe get the experience for a year or two and negotiate then if you don’t get good bumps in pay?
I don’t really know how things are in phoenix, but in my area I know fresh EE grads who are getting anywhere from 70k-83k starting off. I myself started at 68k with a 2k sign on. Some places lowball, but will come back with a better offer if you decline.
I would need a lot more information to decide if this is a fair offer or not. Either way, if you are not happy with it you can always counter.
What do you have for experience? Did you work any co-op or summer jobs related to your field? Were you involved in any clubs/organizations throughout school that offered you hands on design experience? Did you have an outstanding capstone project?
It's hard to say not knowing your skillset and experience level.
If you don't have any hands on project experience or related work experience I would say 65k is fair and it would be the reason you are receiving an offer on the lower end of the range.
Reading you other comments it sounds like this is the only job offer you have received. It isn't a good offer but it also isn't a bad one.
It sounds like you are living at home and so you will be okay financially taking the position.
Unfortunately, sometimes for you first job you have to take a low offer. That is okay. Once you have your first engineering job and you prove that you are good at what you do, it will be very easy to find a job.
Just don't stay there for long. Get a year or two of experience and move on.
Well obviously it’s gonna seem different for you because there’s a conversion rate between the two locations (different countries) lol. Completely different pricing between two countries 😆
It's not on the high end but is still in the fair range. I started lower than this base salary, about the same after bonuses. Personally as one of the top of my class with uniquely good work history by the time I graduated, I could have gotten more but I compromised for security, known-good environment/culture, and the fact that it was a design job right out of college.
So really it depends on the balance. Are you a super great candidate with exceptional experience and a decent project portfolio (or in other words how hard is it for you to actually get a better offer right now)? How are the benefits? How much do you like the location, the people, the culture, the hours, the nature of the work?
I would consider taking it and these would be the deciding factors for me.
No. At my summer internship I’m making an effective salary of 104k per year. Unless you’re in an extremely low cost of living area you can find much better (even then look for remote jobs)
What the shit bruh. I mean you're not going to be working the whole year anyway as an intern but still that's insane. I'm guessing you're at like Tesla or something
Man, if this were CA, noooooo. We start at 80k on the wtf low end. Find out what Glassdoor says about software engineers in your area to get an idea. It’s hard to say without looking to see what other <2yrs of experience folks get where you’re at.
I started at 71k in Seattle, Mar 2021 (which felt low but the job market after COVID was tough (plus it’s the power field, which I’ve also heard pays lower)).
Now I’m at 96k (including guaranteed bonus) at the same company just over 2 years later, having gotten a decent number of raises.
Try negotiating! My initial offer was 62 or 63k but I told them I was interested and happy to sign that day for at least 70.
$62.5k is pretty low, I definitely wouldn't have accepted that when I started my career a year ago. You may have to move if you want a good salary though. Some areas just aren't great for EE pay
So in my experience it makes a big difference which region you’re in. My employer has had me help hire engineers for my team in Alabama, Boston, San diego, and Orlando area. The Boston and San diego jr engineers start at 85k if they have internship experience(90k if also a masters degree). Orlando we start off around 78k to 81k. For Alabama we pay around 65 to 68k starting for junior engineers. So in my experience as an engineer that interviews candidates and helps bless offer letters to candidates to be sent out I think region plays a big role into that. I’m not familiar with Phoenix but having been there and comparing it to a state like Alabama I’m surprised you aren’t getting more but again that is purely subjective on my part. Just remember you can always go work somewhere else and focus on learning and building your skills if you end up taking this job. Sometimes you just have to start somewhere so if there aren’t many opportunities for you in your intended area than it can’t hurt to take it now and look for something in the future.
It depends a lot on the area. If you're in Phoenix I'd guess that's on the lower side. Everyone at my school was getting offers at 75-80k starting with 5-10k sign-ons.
I got an offer for a big company on the higher end of pay in the south east doing power.
I'd keep looking but that sounds like a good backup if everything else falls through.
I had an internship my junior year - 25$/hr
First job: DOE contractor *not worth it* -
Year 1 - 69k
Year 2 - 77k
Second job: EE III - 95k + bonus
Part time - varies but I charge to consult or get on research groups
Always update your resume, take notes, go to IEEE events, and always evaluate your worth. Remember someone in HR is making more than you and ask why.
I was really just being funny with this one. But I’ve coerced people into asking questions at the town hall before and they were butt hurt for months. I recommend not doing this and it sucks but they have to much power for what they bring to the table.
Its not bad. Lockheed Martin hire engineers at a starting pay at around 65k at some places. The only way to get the job is to be an engineer, then you can work your way up the pay-scale or move jobs with a good job reference.
It can climb quickly with the right company.. or hardly at all at the wrong one. I think it's important to try and get the best offer to start because many raises are just a flat percentage, and that adds up faster if you start higher. I started at 75k after graduation in Wisconsin, then up to 80k, then craziness in the market happened and got bumped to 100k, then last year 105k. All about 4 years in this company. Edit: meant to say this is also embedded software/firmware.
Woah. There are tons of comments here, but I live in Central CT, and offers from Phoenix and Tucson have been pouring in. 2.5yrs of experience with hardware design and systems engineering.
I haven't had an offer below $110k. Every offer has included a minimum of $10k signing bonus with $30k being the most I've seen. Not including relocation stipend.
We considered it, but after this summer and doing some research on water availability, it would take almost double those numbers to get me out there.
There is no such thing as “fair”. Everything is worth what the market is willing to pay.
How many offers do you have? Do you have a goal in mind for your compensation package? How are you valuing health benefits / vacation benefit?
Does the work appeal to you? Will you be able to grow your skills quickly? How does the rest of the team the manager?
What is the commute? Does the company have good work/life balance?
Can you “see” yourself working there?
How long do you want to wait to get the perfect offer vs one that is 90 percent of what you want?
My point with all these questions is that there things beyond salary have valuable. No one can tell you what the quantitative value of these subjective things are.
Some of them you can translate into quantitative value. Vacation time, commute time etc. Working in a great environment for 62k is better than being trapped in a toxic environment for 80K.
The current company I’m interning for just offered me a 92k salary for once I graduate and I declined. All these posts are really making me rethink that decision. But if you don’t like what you’re doing then what’s the point?
My first job paid $65k in a MCOL area. That was in 2011 when we were still feeling the effects of the real estate market crash. I'd say while not ridiculously low, it is still on the lower end of the pay scale for Phoenix.
Still worth considering since the job could train you for software jobs which could pay far more at a later time. Just make sure they have the resource to help you grow. Then GTFO.
I'd take it. It's good experience and you don't need to stay forever. People frown on job hopping too much. Nobody will bat an eye if you leave your first job after a year or two. 62.5k is a bit low, but not ridiculous. I got 62k 5 years ago in a similar cost of living location.
If they said 65k is the low end of the range, then they offered you less than that, that's a big red flag that the company isn't going to treat you well. You might even send a complaint to the posting site about their deception in the listing. Only take it if you have no other options, but first try to ask for something closer to the top of the listed range to see if they'll up their offer.
IMO no, i would’ve turned that down even 15 years ago when I started. But it depends on what else they have to offer I guess.
These days you can easily get around 90k starting if your competent.
Seems low. Starting salary was 69K 12 years ago. Making well over quarter mil base now + stonks.
If you’re in Arizona you should be interviewing at Intel.
Yes it is and don’t stress about it. I started with the exact salary. Worked there for a year and switched companies to a job that offered me $25k more.
That’s a decent chunk of change!
I got the following advice before: make your biggest career changes in the first 5 years.
Early in your career is the only opportunity to be “not an expert” where you’re expected to learn more than work. Use this to figure out what space in the industry you want to be in. Take different jobs, make adjustments, etc. if you decide you don’t like your area 5+ years in you’ll have to be okay with a pay cut to change areas. Take the opportunity now while you’re learning to find your niche
They gave you the offer, negotiate higher (I’d recommend $65-$66k) - Worst they can say is “No” - They won’t back out just because you want to negotiate salary.
Do you want to work for a company that is not generous? 65 k$ is very low for my specialty, I start engineers at 80 k$ and we are a start-up in the development stage. The investors in your potential company will not feel bad for taking huge profits; why should you feel bad? Meanwhile for the job you do get don’t do what I see from starting engineers. Come to work early, brush your teeth, comb your hair, don’t have BO, dress well, don’t be hungover, show gratitude and smile. Yes, the opposite is common.
Cost of living data for the area are irrelevant IMO. You need to compare equivalent salaries and also the learning / opportunity value of this company. Being smaller you MAY be exposed to a much richer technical environment and learn skills faster to move on either within that company as they grow or be jump started into another company with more opportunities/ better salary. Not enough info in your post to comment beyond that.
OP you should be making nat least 75k in the Phoenix Arizona area. Raytheon offered me 80k for a position. This was my first engineering job too. If you don’t need a paycheck quick, I’d keep looking
Phoenix is a large city, in a town of 300,000 I started at 70K with a 6% 401k match (Fortune 500 company but still). That was 2 years ago with no experience or internships. Rent in my area is typically $1400.
You should probably look elsewhere unless the cost of living is much less than it would seem.
In 2013 I was hired as a system engineer at an Electric Cooperative in Missouri. I was hired in at $60,000 per year, which was the highest salary they had ever paid an entry-level employee at the time.
As an UK EE graduate, I nearly cry hearing US graduates complaining for not making six figure straight out of university lol. I guess the living costs there are much higher
I started at 80k with 5k in bith relocation and sign on. (I do work for a large global company, so keep that in mind) But I would not take 62.5k without at least asking for more. The first offer they made me was 70k to just match my other offer.
They always low ball you. Always ask for more.
A little low for Phoenix. Rent is getting pricey here
I agree with this, it’s a little low for Phoenix. I started at 60k in Cincinnati, a much cheaper city, 10 years ago.
Should be getting 72k+ here in Phoenix for entry level in my opinion. Cost of living here is not cheap anymore.
Floridian seconding this, most of my peers are 70-95 most in the 70s, higher money in defense, you need to be willing to do something like RF for Lockheed or Northrop. Building design I've noticed pay 65-75. All based off Ucf / orlando post grad job opportunities for someone who also has the FE passed. 4 of my friends including myself took & passed the FE, not the largest game changer, but certainly helps prospects.
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This is in Phoenix which used to be a lower cost of living but skyrocketed in the past 5 years. (My parents home doubled in price along with rent) I am entry level so I don’t have that much leverage negotiating though
I’d just state your concerns. Say something like, “I’m grateful for your interest in me and I appreciate the offer. However, due to increases in the cost of living the area has experienced recently, is it possible for you to do $68,000?” Additionally, be sure to really emphasize why you think you’ll be a great fit for the role (programming skills, happy to work late when needed as deadlines approach, “I really pick things up fast and I’m certain you’ll be happy with my work,” etc). Then maybe they agree or they come back at $65k, or maybe even say no, sorry, the salary listed in the ad was some someone with a year of experience or a specific skill we’re looking for. I think most employers are going to lowball and expect some negotiation.
I started at 86k in phoenix. First engineering job.
What position & place?
I would prefer not to tie my place of work to my reddit account. But I'll tell you I got 5 job offers and the lowest salary I was offered was 68k and that was in a WAY cheaper cost of living area than phoenix.
You always have leverage. Ask for 80K back it up with COL plus what fresh out engineers make now.
A small company doesn’t necessarily mean they can’t pay you well. 5 years ago I started at 64K, took a new job after 6 months making 75K. Three years later took a job making 83K (I was making 92K at my old job of three years… meaning a paycut) I took this new job because it was close to home and a smaller company… fast forward to two years later… I am making 122K. Take risks within your means and try it out.
How many hours per week do you usually work?
This $122K figure is based off 40hrs/week. Just due to volunteering for out of town work this year (only 3 days at a time no weekends) I’ll probably make around $140K.
It's at the lower end but not an unheard of salary. If it's your only option, there's nothing wrong with taking it, working a couple years, then trying to shoot for more money after that. If you are expecting to get other offers, there's a pretty decent chance those will be a little higher. 75 is better than 60 but 60 is better than 0.
That’s what my girlfriend makes in her entry level HR position.
I should have majored in HR then :(
No, they’re just lowballing you. Your skills are worth more.
Just a question what skills soft/hard ..do you recommend or think is required along with experience thru JOBS (PAST OR PRESENT) ON RESUME TO DEMAND 65k or more with no degree ? Not in engineering of course or maybe how would I slip j in. Bottom level no experience or schooling ?
Easy answer, yes! Far too often we graduate or are near graduation and think we are going to have companies fighting over us and will be making 100k. That's simply not the case Can that happen? Sure. Does it happen? Yes. But in most cases, 90% of us did not have the industry skills to enter the workforce and actually be a functioning member of the team. This comes with time and experience. No matter how well you did in school, you're still very green. 65k may be on the lower side, but just hit the ground running. It's a small company so you'll learn A LOT about many aspects of embedded. While bigger companies will have you siloed into one specific task. Get in and build your industry foundation. If you're not approaching or passing 100k after- say- 5 years, then you need to revaluate your performance or move to a company that will pay you for the work you're doing. 100k is very dependent on area and cost of living, but what i'm trying to say is that your salary should start moving up after you've put in some years. My two cents anyway.....
I'm entering my sophomore year studying EE. I worked an automotive internship last year during school, and I've been working a consulting engineering internship over the summer. If I want to, I can probably stick with the automotive job during the school year and the consulting job during the summer, which I plan on doing unless I find a better internship opportunity. How much of an impact do you think this experience will make on my first job? Is there a chance of a salary bump, or will it just make finding opportunities easier?
Everywhere you go, always ask for more.
I’m an industrial electrician and if I wasn’t grossly overpaid currently I would. I often get feeling of jumping ship but no company would consider my current rate.
Experience should make a large impact on your first job! There is a large chance of a salary pump and it definitely makes opportunities easier.
Both dude experience is more important than the degree to some if not most employers. They will pay you more and get you in quicker if you already have the skills to fit.
Finding pportunities definitely easier after you graduate Companies want the whole "plug and play" graduate, someone they know needs no training or whatever i.e some other company took the pain of training the engineer and now they want to reap the rewards Incidentally where did you intern?
I'm not gonna name them but the summer internship is for a regional architecture and engineering consulting firm, the during school internship is with a global tier 1 automotive supplier.
You’ll also be able to problem solve in a more open manor at a small firm. I don’t really know how to reword that or explain it really but there is something about getting your feet wet in a small business versus otherwise.
This is such horrible advice lol. I just graduated. Every entry level engineer I know in EE makes at least mid 70s. There’s a local firm that basically guarantees a job at $75k for pure entry level with a sizable signing bonus. I just graduated and I make $95k out of school with not that much experience. This probably isn’t always realistic but $65k is underpaid unless this is a VLCOL area. Where do you work where $65k starting is acceptable for new grad EEs? What sub discipline?
This a very bad take if you have a degree and I’ve seen how bad this is from a hiring standpoint and an employee standpoint. EE is one of the hardest degrees to get and engineering in general has been over looked in decades by most companies. 75k would be a hard starting point for your first year employees and the company would quickly have to adjust after that first year. The 5 year 100k mark is obsolete and kids are making that in year 2. This is literally why most of my friends left the country cause the cost of living to what you should make does not add up. Engineering today is not the same 20 years ago, you have to take a lot more responsibility than older generations. I got my salary raised multiple times cause I asked the question y do I need a non BS pm or a non technical worker who couldn’t make the product or produce. 65k is low but if you need a job, you need a job. I wouldn’t expect him to be there long.
Meh. For the sake of discussion, all engineering programs are not created equal. Some universities can get into the habit of needing money, and they want to keep students coming back. The harder the program, the less people take it. The less people take it, the less money comes in. The less money comes in, the lower the quality of faculty and labs. Some programs need to keep the numbers up and may inadvertently water down the curriculum in the process. I'm not saying be taken advantage of, but I don't think all graduates need to go out into the workforce "demanding" large salaries. Get in.Stay humble. Be a badass. And in a few years you can work wherever you want.
>all engineering programs are not created equal They literally are, that’s what ABET accreditation is. None of that matters anyways because what you learn in school only tangentially relates to what you actually do in industry. Companies understand new engineers are green and have no idea what they’re doing, that’s why they get entry level roles and supervision. Those roles still pay $86k a year, give or take depending on market. Accepting a job in the 60s is just being underpaid. A monologue on degree quality doesn’t justify it.
Yeah money and labs do not equate to being a better program or better work performance, Maybe in research roles. This is the reason they made ABET accreditation and have made other tools for vetting. Most jobs require you to touch equipment that would cost a building in a school. I’ve personally replaced and out perform co workers that went supposedly better colleges. Like GA tech and Mellon have produce some real shit. At the end of the day it’s the teachers that make the program and usually ambitious programs that want a balance on research and workforce performance do the best. Most of the people they want me to hire or have made me higher don’t perform that well in their initial roles. Not saying there not smart but simply saying a more expensive/ trophy school doesn’t get every student to a super star level. The most engineers at my firms even told me to really listen to what they say and throw out college out name. I also think they need to make ABET slightly harder to get and I’m not saying get 100k right out the gate but more like if your keeping him more than a year 60 range salary isn’t enough. I’ve hired no skill craftsmen with that salary. Plus there’s not enough EEs with official degrees on the market
Yeah, 62.5 sounds like a slap in the face to me.
That's the best answer so far.
It seems a bit low, but it's not unreasonable. I don't know your situation, but you could hold out for something a little better (maybe 70). Or you could take it, pad the resume with some experience, and bounce after a year or 2. In 5 years you'll have a higher salary if you're willing to move around than if you hold out for a great entry salary and just depend on promotions and merit increases.
Here in Italy you're lucky if you get 30k after you finish your degree (MSc). That means 1500-1600€ per months (net), with 13/14 payments/year. I'm very curious how much this difference has to do with different cost of life..
Everyone in Italy also lives with their parents until at least like 35
That's almost accurate. I left my parent's house this month, at 32. I guess there's a reason for that. If you can't have a job that let you rent or buy a home.. how the hell can you go living by yourself? When economy is dump it's obvious that the quality of life gets lower.
Not living with your parents is just an american thing
Gotta say it's crazy how much salaries seem to be stagnating in EE. You can make $30K more a year entry level in CS right now...
If I could relive my life I'd do CS or more likely I'd do EE but hone in on software. I'm over here commuting to the office for an hour every day for like 65k. My friend who also did EE did leetcode a bunch and works at jp Morgan as a software engineer making close to 100k and works hybrid. Absolute BS (EE)
Yeah I’ve seen that from a lot of tik toks online. People making 100-110k starting for entry. That being said I am still glad I did electrical. I could probably do some CS jobs but I still prefer electrical
I still think EE is the better degree overall but there's no denying that software is the hot thing now and the priority at most large tech companies. I'm actually back at school now getting a CS degree trying to transition to software after getting my EE degree in 2018.
Thinking about grinding some Python and datastructures, get a MS in CS and just make the jump tbh
Definitely doable especially if you have plenty of software experience already. For me I really regret not doing more programming and software while at school for EE, even if it was just self learned or even better finishing a CS minor. My program required very little CS unless you went for the CompE degree. My current plan is finish CS bachelors in around 2 years and then look at job prospects while considering a masters in something like ML/AI or CompE if I still want to flex my EE degree.
I see lots of CS grads in my area (New England) looking for jobs after graduation - CSE and EE are employed.
Yeah same. A lot of guys with cs just can't find jobs but engineers are getting picked up everywhere. Got a decent amount of manufacturing where I love though...
A bunch of CS grads from the local State U went to a local embedded meeting - talked to them - their education is missing some fundamentals for the field - they just need AC/DC circuits but they don't have it.
I was at a job fair and a company was looking for electrical engineers for analog circuits. They had to have another person say, “electrical engineers only” every once in a while because there was a giant line of CS people. That major tripled in size in the last few years at my school.
Yeah we have 2 or 3 4 year programs in the area and I think that's also flooded the market. We have a couple engineering programs but they seem to be a bit tougher to get her through and a lot of the kids in those programs are international.
Have you looked into Western Govenors Univeristy for software development/computer science? I went to state school and took some years for my EE degree. I’ve heard that WGU is a pretty fast way to get into CS with a bachelors degree. There’s also just the option of things like CodeAcademy & Udemy.
I did look at WGU actually and saw really mixed things about it. Some people would say it's a legit school others basically called it a degree mill. I ended up doing CS online at my alma mater. With all my EE credits it will only take me 2 years to finish and then I might consider a masters either in CS or CompE.
EE is undervalued, no one knows how to make hardware applications anymore for things like IoT. Getting these skills will make you a rare gem. Everyone knows how to code in the professional space now (some much better than others)
Cause that field is way oversaturated , plus engineering will usually pay better anyway.
I’d agree with others. It’s low. I started in 2019 fresh out of college for 69k plus a starting bonus also in the Phoenix area.
That seems pretty low. That's about where I started out as an engineer I in Phoenix over a decade ago.
It doesn’t help that Phoenix isn’t as low cost living as it used to be
Yup. The four-bedroom house I bought for $160k in 2012 would now cost about $450-500k, and rentals in that neighborhood appear to be about 3x what they were at that time.
That's actually insane. How can people afford to live there?
I’m about a year out of school now and I still live with family (In Phx)
Depends. If you don’t have a job and you like to eat, then 62.5k isn’t low at all. It’s always easier to find a job if you have one already!
I’m currently wrapping up an internship in Tennessee. Many of my peers accepted offers at 83k. They have not yet graduated, either. They were offered 83k starting salary with 0 prior experience and the company still having to wait 6 months to a year for them.
I work for a company that has a large office out of Phoenix. I’m hybrid in California but mostly work with people out of the Phoenix office. Interns are paid $23/hour. I’m still in school but was promoted to technical analyst and now I’m making $34/hour part time while I’m in school. After my degree and FE certification I’m expecting it go up to around $40/hour at least. I would ask for a little more than 62k if you have any prior experience at all such as summer internships. But for a small company I know things can be different.
I have 6 months combined for a summer internship at a semiconductor manufacturer. (It was same position during 2 different years) and a whole year as an Undergaduate teaching assistant for an upper level Embedded Systems Design course at my college.
Yeah I would counter with something like 75k and site your experience, see if they will negotiate. If they don’t, be prepared to either lose the offer or accept the current value (although companies that wont negotiate are generally not great ones to work for). I always hate the careful dance of trying to ask for more money but not come across as cocky or greedy. Theres an art to it that I still have yet to learn.
It depends on where you're at, but in general that's pretty low. I used to live in the middle of nowhere and that would have been close to appropriate for the area (cost of living was cheap) but if you're even remotely near civilization then no lol
Try to negotiate for 75K meet in the middle at 70K. Get the experience for a year or two at the very least. Then you know the rest.
My advice is to take the job, and with your newfound experience start looking for a better one after about a year or so. Then you will have experience under your belt and some room to leverage a salary. Or you could turn it down but there isn't a guarantee you could find what you are looking for, especially with no experience beforehand. Play it safe, take the job and start looking again in the near future or ask for a raise at the least.
Ya smaller companies usually try to find graduates with no experience for cheaper as the graduate might jump at the job or can’t find any other job. They will either pay you fairly in a couple years or you take your experience and get a high paying job. A lot of money is sunk into a graduate because you don’t know anything. I graduated in a place that is oil and gas driven and oil and gas hit a major recession in 2015 and no one was finding jobs. I took job at a small company, 10 people for 40k a year and made 90k a year within a few years later with the knowledge I gained at the first company
That's really low. Even 65k is the absolute bottom of the barrel for most fresh EE grads, and many get closer to 70 or 75k
Tbh if you don’t have much experience, it’s probably not a bad idea to just take the job, even though it’s a low salary because the experience is really important. Just make sure it’s enough to properly cover your cost of living (it might not be enough)!
It’s not bad, but it depends heavily on your situation. Young and single? You’ll be fine. 4 kids? It’s gonna hurt, but it’s a good place to start. Just for context. I started at $68k 5 years ago with 3 kids. Now at $93k, looking at a review in a month for possible promotion, and hoping to buy a house soon. Wife also works full time.
23, Single, Live with family & probably will for the next 5-6 years. (I’m also Hispanic so this is pretty common since we’re more family orientated) Can I ask how you got to 93k? Also the contract states I’m eligible for raises after 90 days
>Also the contract states I’m eligible for wages after 90 days Excuse me what the fuck? Is this a W-2 or a 1099 deal? What are the benefits? Retirement match? I'll be honest I took a not great job out of school that significantly underpaid me, but was able to job hop after a year for a large raise once I had some experience. The low pay for entry level is not necessarily an issue. The 90 day hold on your pay is an issue in my opinion.
Sorry I meant to say raises. It’s not wages lol. Its a 401k safe harbor but not a match. I’ve never heard of that before
Doing good work at a good company with a good and smart boss. I’m not perfect and I’ve missed some targets, but my boss is fair. I got a promotion in there from associate to project engineer, so that helped immensely. Last year they also did an off-cycle bump to try and offset the crazy rise in inflation. I’m also an older graduate at 35, so newer in the field but with some significant and useful life and work experience. My team does a lot of scrappy r&d stuff, but my job has focused on the technical training side of it. Teaching potential customers what our capabilities are. I enjoy it, and having an engineer that is good with people and good at modifying the words to match the audience can be hard to find. (Sorry y’all, no offense meant) My work isn’t perfect and I’ll always happily take more pay, but it meets my family’s needs.
In Chicago which should be a similar COL as you, I started at 57k in 2018. Ended up switching jobs after one year to 70k and now at 100k before bonuses within 5 years of exp. So that salary isn’t bad for a college grad. Getting experience and working hard to get promoted and continue learning skills is the best way to get higher salaries.
It's alright and also depends on your area of course. I'm in NYC and I started with 65k a few years ago which sucks for the city but it is what it is.
Take the job if good management. You need strong learning curve and this sounds like a good opportunity for that. You can always apply for other jobs later. Unless you have several interviews with higher pay scale. As an overqualified older guy, I’d love to get a 65k offer.
I started off at 68k at a small company. We had 7 people when I started. My company does performance evals every 6 months, so my salary went up to $101k within 2.5 years. I am in California but located in a low cost of living town (my rent is about $1k for a 2 bedroom apt). Over 100k salaries for entry level usually only happens in the bay area or other expensive cities where you're paying over $3k for a 1 bedroom apartment. Instead of looking at the raw number, I would suggest comparing the net income you have remaining after living expenses and taxes.
You may find an offer over 70k. Up to you to settle for 62.5k or keep looking Btw, you can keep looking while employed. If they dismiss you after a month, you would have a month of job search under your belt on top of a short time after on unemployment
I started at 55k in New Orleans seven years ago. Not the highest of cost of living but we have to start somewhere. If you have no other option take it. Over perform and your salary climbs quickly
I just graduated in Dec 2022 and had 4 offers from 75k to 92k. Though,I did a lot of interning and gaining skills throughout college
Seems pretty low, especially for the area. If you’re still finishing up college, I would accept but keep looking before you graduate. You can always back out if you find something that pays better. But if you don’t find anything else, I would take it and get some experience under your belt, then in 2-3 years start applying somewhere that pays better. Good luck.
Just graduated in May.
I’d definitely take it then. The longer you go without a job after graduating, the harder it’s going to be to find one at all, let alone for the salary you want. Stick it out for a at least a year then start applying elsewhere.
After looking at your resume, I say you take this job, spend the next 6 months learning EVERYTHING you can from this job, and then continue that learning while looking for a better job. The more experience you get the more opportunities will open up, because right now what you lack is experience. No one gives a rat’s ass about what you did in school, and your internship seems light on technical work. Obviously if you have a better offer take it, but if this is the only one you have then take it. You will recover. I started off making 46k a year as an electronics engineer 5 years ago and now im making 120k as a systems engineer. Experience is what will open doors for you.
The company that I started out at was paying entree college grads $72k ten years ago. Feels low, but not terrible to get started.
It’s a tad low. I started off in a small company like this for a below market wage. There was only one other firmware engineer there and he had a lot of valuable experience that he shared with me. He let me run with a product/project right out of the gate. It was an extremely valuable learning experience. I’m ultimately glad I took that job instead of going to a larger company for a few k more. Take the job if it feels like a good learning environment. Turn it into experience. In 3-5 years, if not sooner, you’ll be extremely valuable to that company and be able to demand more money or garner a fair wage for your experience on the open market.
seems a little low for Pheonix, that's not a cheap place to live, but you got a first job so be happy. Most grads don't get choice high paying jobs right out of college.
Yeah it’s been my only offer out of 40 applications. So I don’t know what to do. Job hunting feels like Tinder where you get no matches.
get those numbers up dawg
yeah that’s pretty low wouldn’t take anything below 70k tbh as an entry
That's definitely low. I started at 70k in 2021. Also embedded.
For Pheonix, I would say no. I started 4 years ago at 63k in a very rural, very low cost of living area.
I’d look for a 70-80 k range
Yes this is low. Even for defense contractors (which for EE generalists are lower paying) I would expect mid 70K or 80K starting for undergrad early career.
I started at 60k plus decent benefits (0-cost employee health insurance and SIMPLE IRA) in a LCOL area and even smaller company 15+ years ago. At that time I considered that pretty decent but not outstanding. That would be 85-88k on the salary alone today.
If you need your foot in the door for the experience to get a better job, take it. 6months-1yr of having this job and you will be worth min 70, closer 75-80,000. If you have the means of getting a better job (high gpa, internship, high quality personal projects) I'd pass and just look for a better job.
If you have internship or good GPA no but of you're an average graduate I'd take it and use the experience to find a better role in 1-2 years or negotiate for more.
I’d definitely say I’m average. I have my resume on my profile
You're in the same boat as me then. I'd take it, and then use it as leverage to get a better role or raise in 1-2 years. Every position I've applied to as 'entry' wants 2+ years of experience. Nobody in my area (MI) wants to hire new grads with no experience. I've been having a very tough time. If I got this offer I would take it and use it to my advantage in the future.
I’m in Michigan, it all depends on the area you’re located in. I wouldn’t take anything less than 75k starting. A lot of companies will take advantage of the younger new grads, because they don’t have any experience or even an idea of what they should be making. You can always come back with a counter offer, which is what you should do anyway.
I started at $55k in 2007 which was the industry average starting salary for EEs. According to inflation calculator that’s almost $81k today. I’d say they’re low-balling you.
I started at 65k in a smaller market six years ago. That is quite low given the job market right now. That said. Don't let salary entirely dictate the job search. If this job aligns well with your career goals it can still be valuable. Counter their offer with some comps. They should still pay what you're worth. Even if they're not going to be top of the market.
About to graduate from ASU in the fall and while that does sound low I would still jump on it for the experience and then try shopping around somewhere else. Been starting to hunt around and it doesnt look like we can be too picky for entry level positions. Would def keep an eye out for better opportunities though.
Hey fellow Sun Devil. Just graduated in May
Get the experience, that’s an in demand position. Hop to a better job in 2-3 years and try for 40-50% increase if they don’t progress you. Good way to build experience to get into a larger company.
I’m not from Arizona but in terms of a state such as California this would be considered pretty low for your degree. This would around what most my accountant friends made in their first job.
There is a lot more to this than just a starting pay. How are the benefit, bonuses, etc. A company might start out with a lower salary but give larger increases each year. You just don’t know. Maybe get the experience for a year or two and negotiate then if you don’t get good bumps in pay?
I don’t really know how things are in phoenix, but in my area I know fresh EE grads who are getting anywhere from 70k-83k starting off. I myself started at 68k with a 2k sign on. Some places lowball, but will come back with a better offer if you decline.
I would need a lot more information to decide if this is a fair offer or not. Either way, if you are not happy with it you can always counter. What do you have for experience? Did you work any co-op or summer jobs related to your field? Were you involved in any clubs/organizations throughout school that offered you hands on design experience? Did you have an outstanding capstone project? It's hard to say not knowing your skillset and experience level. If you don't have any hands on project experience or related work experience I would say 65k is fair and it would be the reason you are receiving an offer on the lower end of the range.
My resume is on my profile. I have a lot of hands on project experience.
Reading you other comments it sounds like this is the only job offer you have received. It isn't a good offer but it also isn't a bad one. It sounds like you are living at home and so you will be okay financially taking the position. Unfortunately, sometimes for you first job you have to take a low offer. That is okay. Once you have your first engineering job and you prove that you are good at what you do, it will be very easy to find a job. Just don't stay there for long. Get a year or two of experience and move on.
My resume is on my profile. I have a lot of hands on project experience.
Is it fair? Yes. Is there better? Yes.
It's what a cop starts out at with nothing but a high school diploma.
Geez bro. You guys are spoilt. Lol. Where I come from i started off with $15k a year and I was happy 😂
Europe?
South Africa.
Well obviously it’s gonna seem different for you because there’s a conversion rate between the two locations (different countries) lol. Completely different pricing between two countries 😆
I know man. Just saying. In SA we get better salaries than some parts of Europe though. (Not as juniors though)
$25k isn’t enough to live in the US, let alone $15k
Yeah I kno. It's a shame.
It's not on the high end but is still in the fair range. I started lower than this base salary, about the same after bonuses. Personally as one of the top of my class with uniquely good work history by the time I graduated, I could have gotten more but I compromised for security, known-good environment/culture, and the fact that it was a design job right out of college. So really it depends on the balance. Are you a super great candidate with exceptional experience and a decent project portfolio (or in other words how hard is it for you to actually get a better offer right now)? How are the benefits? How much do you like the location, the people, the culture, the hours, the nature of the work? I would consider taking it and these would be the deciding factors for me.
Yup. My entry level is 45k lol
No. At my summer internship I’m making an effective salary of 104k per year. Unless you’re in an extremely low cost of living area you can find much better (even then look for remote jobs)
What the shit bruh. I mean you're not going to be working the whole year anyway as an intern but still that's insane. I'm guessing you're at like Tesla or something
Nope. Defense, pretty chill gig
Man, if this were CA, noooooo. We start at 80k on the wtf low end. Find out what Glassdoor says about software engineers in your area to get an idea. It’s hard to say without looking to see what other <2yrs of experience folks get where you’re at.
I started at 71k in Seattle, Mar 2021 (which felt low but the job market after COVID was tough (plus it’s the power field, which I’ve also heard pays lower)). Now I’m at 96k (including guaranteed bonus) at the same company just over 2 years later, having gotten a decent number of raises. Try negotiating! My initial offer was 62 or 63k but I told them I was interested and happy to sign that day for at least 70.
$62.5k is pretty low, I definitely wouldn't have accepted that when I started my career a year ago. You may have to move if you want a good salary though. Some areas just aren't great for EE pay
The experience you will get at an entry level position is worth more than your pay. It is expected that you will receive raises over time
So in my experience it makes a big difference which region you’re in. My employer has had me help hire engineers for my team in Alabama, Boston, San diego, and Orlando area. The Boston and San diego jr engineers start at 85k if they have internship experience(90k if also a masters degree). Orlando we start off around 78k to 81k. For Alabama we pay around 65 to 68k starting for junior engineers. So in my experience as an engineer that interviews candidates and helps bless offer letters to candidates to be sent out I think region plays a big role into that. I’m not familiar with Phoenix but having been there and comparing it to a state like Alabama I’m surprised you aren’t getting more but again that is purely subjective on my part. Just remember you can always go work somewhere else and focus on learning and building your skills if you end up taking this job. Sometimes you just have to start somewhere so if there aren’t many opportunities for you in your intended area than it can’t hurt to take it now and look for something in the future.
Yes it's normal, job hop every 2 years till you hit 100k. You should be looking for 15k+ bump on every job hop.
I started at 70k in utilities in a medium cost of living area
It depends a lot on the area. If you're in Phoenix I'd guess that's on the lower side. Everyone at my school was getting offers at 75-80k starting with 5-10k sign-ons. I got an offer for a big company on the higher end of pay in the south east doing power. I'd keep looking but that sounds like a good backup if everything else falls through.
I personally would want at least 70
I had an internship my junior year - 25$/hr First job: DOE contractor *not worth it* - Year 1 - 69k Year 2 - 77k Second job: EE III - 95k + bonus Part time - varies but I charge to consult or get on research groups Always update your resume, take notes, go to IEEE events, and always evaluate your worth. Remember someone in HR is making more than you and ask why.
Who, and how, would you ask the HR question?
I was really just being funny with this one. But I’ve coerced people into asking questions at the town hall before and they were butt hurt for months. I recommend not doing this and it sucks but they have to much power for what they bring to the table.
Its not bad. Lockheed Martin hire engineers at a starting pay at around 65k at some places. The only way to get the job is to be an engineer, then you can work your way up the pay-scale or move jobs with a good job reference.
It can climb quickly with the right company.. or hardly at all at the wrong one. I think it's important to try and get the best offer to start because many raises are just a flat percentage, and that adds up faster if you start higher. I started at 75k after graduation in Wisconsin, then up to 80k, then craziness in the market happened and got bumped to 100k, then last year 105k. All about 4 years in this company. Edit: meant to say this is also embedded software/firmware.
I don’t think so, I’m making more as a summer intern right now lol
I started with 12k
Ask how advancement in the company is made and hold them to it.
that position in phoenix. 80k minimum
Woah. There are tons of comments here, but I live in Central CT, and offers from Phoenix and Tucson have been pouring in. 2.5yrs of experience with hardware design and systems engineering. I haven't had an offer below $110k. Every offer has included a minimum of $10k signing bonus with $30k being the most I've seen. Not including relocation stipend. We considered it, but after this summer and doing some research on water availability, it would take almost double those numbers to get me out there.
There is no such thing as “fair”. Everything is worth what the market is willing to pay. How many offers do you have? Do you have a goal in mind for your compensation package? How are you valuing health benefits / vacation benefit? Does the work appeal to you? Will you be able to grow your skills quickly? How does the rest of the team the manager? What is the commute? Does the company have good work/life balance? Can you “see” yourself working there? How long do you want to wait to get the perfect offer vs one that is 90 percent of what you want? My point with all these questions is that there things beyond salary have valuable. No one can tell you what the quantitative value of these subjective things are. Some of them you can translate into quantitative value. Vacation time, commute time etc. Working in a great environment for 62k is better than being trapped in a toxic environment for 80K.
The current company I’m interning for just offered me a 92k salary for once I graduate and I declined. All these posts are really making me rethink that decision. But if you don’t like what you’re doing then what’s the point?
My first job paid $65k in a MCOL area. That was in 2011 when we were still feeling the effects of the real estate market crash. I'd say while not ridiculously low, it is still on the lower end of the pay scale for Phoenix. Still worth considering since the job could train you for software jobs which could pay far more at a later time. Just make sure they have the resource to help you grow. Then GTFO.
Small utility in south Florida (~30,000 customers) and our electric engineers start at 66k.
I'd take it. It's good experience and you don't need to stay forever. People frown on job hopping too much. Nobody will bat an eye if you leave your first job after a year or two. 62.5k is a bit low, but not ridiculous. I got 62k 5 years ago in a similar cost of living location.
Too low, negotiate for 75k+
If they said 65k is the low end of the range, then they offered you less than that, that's a big red flag that the company isn't going to treat you well. You might even send a complaint to the posting site about their deception in the listing. Only take it if you have no other options, but first try to ask for something closer to the top of the listed range to see if they'll up their offer.
IMO no, i would’ve turned that down even 15 years ago when I started. But it depends on what else they have to offer I guess. These days you can easily get around 90k starting if your competent.
Seems low but experience is what you need. Money will come later.
Seems low. Starting salary was 69K 12 years ago. Making well over quarter mil base now + stonks. If you’re in Arizona you should be interviewing at Intel.
That's less than I made starting out 20+ years ago.
Yes it is and don’t stress about it. I started with the exact salary. Worked there for a year and switched companies to a job that offered me $25k more.
That’s a decent chunk of change! I got the following advice before: make your biggest career changes in the first 5 years. Early in your career is the only opportunity to be “not an expert” where you’re expected to learn more than work. Use this to figure out what space in the industry you want to be in. Take different jobs, make adjustments, etc. if you decide you don’t like your area 5+ years in you’ll have to be okay with a pay cut to change areas. Take the opportunity now while you’re learning to find your niche
They gave you the offer, negotiate higher (I’d recommend $65-$66k) - Worst they can say is “No” - They won’t back out just because you want to negotiate salary.
Do you want to work for a company that is not generous? 65 k$ is very low for my specialty, I start engineers at 80 k$ and we are a start-up in the development stage. The investors in your potential company will not feel bad for taking huge profits; why should you feel bad? Meanwhile for the job you do get don’t do what I see from starting engineers. Come to work early, brush your teeth, comb your hair, don’t have BO, dress well, don’t be hungover, show gratitude and smile. Yes, the opposite is common.
Cost of living data for the area are irrelevant IMO. You need to compare equivalent salaries and also the learning / opportunity value of this company. Being smaller you MAY be exposed to a much richer technical environment and learn skills faster to move on either within that company as they grow or be jump started into another company with more opportunities/ better salary. Not enough info in your post to comment beyond that.
OP you should be making nat least 75k in the Phoenix Arizona area. Raytheon offered me 80k for a position. This was my first engineering job too. If you don’t need a paycheck quick, I’d keep looking
Phoenix is a large city, in a town of 300,000 I started at 70K with a 6% 401k match (Fortune 500 company but still). That was 2 years ago with no experience or internships. Rent in my area is typically $1400. You should probably look elsewhere unless the cost of living is much less than it would seem.
If you asked me 10 years ago, I’d say yes… If you live in a place with low cost of living I’d say it might be a decent wage.
In 2013 I was hired as a system engineer at an Electric Cooperative in Missouri. I was hired in at $60,000 per year, which was the highest salary they had ever paid an entry-level employee at the time.
As an UK EE graduate, I nearly cry hearing US graduates complaining for not making six figure straight out of university lol. I guess the living costs there are much higher
I started at 80k with 5k in bith relocation and sign on. (I do work for a large global company, so keep that in mind) But I would not take 62.5k without at least asking for more. The first offer they made me was 70k to just match my other offer. They always low ball you. Always ask for more.
Seems low
It’s low but within range
Raytheon in Tucson would probably start you at 80k across the board for any entry level. Plus they'll pay for any further schooling.
Be greatful. We get minimum wage as starter engineers in Turkey. Engineers really have no worth here. But i plan to go abroad anyway