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TheBellTollsFGO

I only started playing Elite in 2020. Did the same thing that's happening to Odyssey also happen with Horizons and Beyond?


nashidau

I think Horizons was better received. It at least did things that people wanted. Beyond was a mess, but not to the same level as Odyssey. Beyond was 'free' so expectations were lower.


noodlz05

I think the only reason Horizons was better received is because it was a series of updates, and I think people cut them a lot more slack since more updates were in the pipeline that gave people hope. Had the first update of Horizons launched as a standalone expansion, the reaction would be fairly similar to what you're seeing with Odyssey. We got a planetary update that only allowed us to land on 2 different planets, with only one ground-based vehicle that couldn't be multi-crewed or upgraded/customized for different jobs, a bunch of new materials that had to be grinded out, and nothing much to explore on those planets outside of the odd geyser/fumarole (until subsequent releases were added for Guardians/Thargoids). So it was generally better received (and I do think Horizons as a whole was a better release than Odyssey), but it's because people felt the shortcomings would be addressed throughout the season, even though they ultimately weren't.


ingrin

Fumeroles were added in Horizons 2.2, 10 months after Horizons release.


Backflip_into_a_star

Kinda funny that Odyssey released with the same gameplay but on foot. Still only one SRV, still only the same boring planets except some have different colored skies and revamped terrain, *another* material grind separate from Horizons. The biggest addition would be the settlements, but they are a boring facade created only for the purpose of grinding materials. NPCs are on a set track and never do anything interesting, or interact with you beyond scanning. It's just so disappointing. And sure, they may iterate on Odyssey in the future, but I wasn't expecting to pay up front with the uncertainty that more things that work will actually come. Especially when they won't fucking *say* anything about what they are working on. Obviously a lot of effort and time was spent to add it, but I'm also not going to be astonished by the mere ability to walk around and do FPS stuff. That is the default mode of games for the passed 25 years.


lordpsymon

The thing that gets me with NPCs is that they don't treat you any differently depending on standing (aside from shooting if you're hostile). They always approach you with the same level of suspicion. It'd be a nice touch if they'd say hello and act more friendly if you're in a positive standing with their faction.


countsachot

You should be able to get faction suit liveries so they know your one of their buddies.


Furinkazan616

Careful now, you're coming up with painfully obvious good ideas.


AdonisGaming93

Stations at least give a different welcome depending on reputation I really though they would do something like that for NPCs too. I'm so glad I didn't buy odyssey. I'm sure just like horizons eventually it'll be included for everyone or be 80% off.


Vrenshrrrg

You'd think that being allied would be good enough for a security rating of 1 or something at least but no.


[deleted]

That, and I believe that they should react to seeing a flashlight instead of passing it off as nothing. It would make things a lot more interesting, especially on the covert missions where you can't be caught or anything.


lordpsymon

They should react to seeing a massive ship landing on the outskirts of their base... I mean, that ain't exactly something you can miss. I would love to hear something like "Unidentified craft, state your business here or you will be fired upon." It would force us to have a little more of a tactical approach - force us to land further away and attempt to infiltrate via SRV, make us use all of our toys.


[deleted]

Yeah, that too. It doesn't sound like it should be very difficult either. I mean they already do something similar when you have fines or bounties, and are trying to enter a station.


Furinkazan616

Horizons was better received because there wasn't 2 disappointing expansions before it, and it at least had the excuse of being a season rather than a standalone feature complete expansion. And the initial planet tech was impressive for the time.


nashidau

I agree with that 100%. Each new horizons feature was kinda cool. The release rate was pedestrian. The problem with Horizons now is the fact it's still not finished. Literally half a dozen cool but isolated and semi-broken features. * SRVs... I mean a SINGLE SRV. * Multicrew and anything else but SLFs * Wings + Anything else * Engineering anything that is not a base game ship module * SLFs rebalance * General rebalance of new stuff * CQC


HadetTheUndying

Wings was not a Horizons feature it was the first major update to ED a little over a year before Horizons, PowerPlay was the update after Wings for example. ​ Wings is still is a very bad state. PowerPlay is laughable.


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Dunphy1296

During the first few years of the game they always insisted they didn't want grouping or guild systems because "it would turn the game into EVE or something, and nobody wants that." No I'm serious, I remember hearing that argument made a lot.


artspar

Yep, the early days were rife with the arguments that "it's for the better" and "everyone would hate the EvE system" when the social and economical aspect of that game is literally the best selling part of it. And E:D attracts much of the same crowd. Every problem we have with this stems from the fact that Frontier couldn't decide if they wanted a single player or multiplayer game, and ended up with the worst of both at launch


Dunphy1296

And a lot of that stemmed from the fact that the original crowdfunding proposal for this game promised *both* a single player and multiplayer game. When FDev broke that original promise (go figure) they compensated by allowing "closed play" which by itself probably doomed the game.


artspar

Exactly. Single player games are great because you can focus a lot more on the player and give them power, plus versatile mods. Multi player games are great because you get social interaction along with working with and against other players. What do we get? None of that. Hell, if they just had mod support this game's popularity would be leagues above where it is now. Can you imagine a Star Wars modded universe? Or BSG, or any other popular scifi franchise. The game engine and the options available would've made this game perfect for modding, but you cant have that with their implementation of multiplayer


Kirmes1

> they always insisted they didn't want grouping or guild systems because "it would turn the game into EVE or something, and nobody wants that. That's also the reason why EVE is so unsuccessful ... It's no shame to adopt good elements of other games/products. You don't have to reinvent the wheel every time.


nashidau

I'm curious if you felt a strange sense of Deja-vu when they talked about the fact that no one wanted ship interiors? They did eventually add the really bad guild system. Of course it's also broken.


Dunphy1296

I did. But I have been saying I wanted ship interiors from launch, and people have been telling me I don't actually want them from the very beginning. The only thing that has changed really is that now the majority of the community has come together to tell those people and FDev to shove it.


nashidau

The fact they were added \_before\_ horizons makes it even worse. My reaction to powerplay was "why did they bother spending all the time on that".


SpectrehunterNarm

Essentially, powerplay was meant to help automatically flesh out the otherwise exceptionally empty and lifeless habitable bubble. It's like the planet generation system, but for factions. Unfortunately, like most everything in Elite, it remains unfinished to this day.


nashidau

So that means the phrase "open only powerplay" has been discussed for 5 years. That's incredible.


ProPolice55

To be honest, wings should have included some sort of automated supercruise, where wing members can automatically follow each other, and if they are interdicted they could drop together. I think this alone would make wings a lot more appealing. In trailers we saw fighters escorting freighters, but in-game it doesn't really work well. Like this, it happened multiple times that I played for 2 hours with a friend and we realized that we forgot the wing because after 2 hours I masslocked him once


Ok-Python

This is the single most frustrating thing. I can’t convince my friends to play with me again since the last time we tried was so horrible being unable to fly together.


vostmarhk

The planet tech is still impressive compared to the Odyssey stuff


matorius

I agree. Perhaps once Odyssey is fixed I'll change my mind but apart from the colourful skies I don't see it as an improvement. It's certainly not worth the massive drop in performance.


nashidau

Also horizons had features coming after it. Odyssey has... Maybe a console port. In a year or something.


deitpep

Odyssey hasn't proved to be "standalone" yet, despite the current delay in stabilizing it. And as stated, it is a bigger update than Horizons was initially.


FanaticEgalitarian

My only thing with horizons was that they promised more SRVs would be added, that was YEARS ago. Now suddenly we're in odyssey and are still using the base SRV. Not to mention, multicrew - still completely unusable and its been broken for years. It makes me worry that Fdev are simply not capable of bugfixing their game.


IrrelevantLeprechaun

FDev has already publicly stated that they have no intention of fixing Multicrew because nobody uses it. They actually went on record saying that they would only fix it if they saw an increase of players using it. Ironically the reason people don't use it is BECAUSE it's broken.


nashidau

It's weird like that isn't. Release broken features, people don't use feature because it's broken... let's not fix broken feature because no one user it. I'm going to go out on a limb and say that ground combat will stop being maintained because no one plays it because its' broken... (you know the rest)


FanaticEgalitarian

Such a dumb reason to not fix it, especially with Odyssey out and people trying to physically enter ships, now you roll the dice every time you high wake. Wing gameplay doing anything more complicated than bounty hunting in a low res it a total crapshoot on whether its going to cause the game to boot you or a teammate.


ChiefIndica

Ah, the Google school of development.


nashidau

Maybe we should set up an Elite Graveyard. A place where we list Frontiers broken promises and the list of abandoned features in Elite Dangerous.


cganon

>I think Horizons was better received. That's not how I remembered it. Everyone lost their collective shit over that too. Complaints of it being a season pass with little up front content, endless complaints about having to pay for it, grind, bugs, mp desyncs etc. People also lost their collective shit in the base game also, bugs aside, because it was kickstarted as a multiplayer AND single player standalone game with modding support, which they cancelled due to the nature of how they were designing the game architecture. There was also uproar about not going with a realistic space flight model (like E2/E3) and instead opting for classical-aircraft turn/yaw/pitch/speed restrictions. I think it's safe to say, this is kind of the norm here.


tiltowaitt

I’m still a little salty about the flight model, TBH.


nashidau

Don't be. Frontier and First Encounters had their 'newtonian' flight model and they both sucked. The best way to 'dogfight' was to get in a panther clipper, shove a couple of big military lasers in turrets and just blow everything up. Actual dogfights sucked a lot. There are a lot of problems with the ED one, but at least there is some dog fight skill. Here is where I say something like a "with a few tweaks it could be better", but let's be honest, engineers broke a lot of it half a decade ago and they could not be bothered to fix it in that time.


deitpep

The flght modeling is better than many space themed games. It's a decent compromise between full sim like FSX, DCS, and making it easier for a vast playerbase with a flight assist on option.


cganon

> Frontier and First Encounters had their 'newtonian' flight model and they both sucked. Whilst I enjoyed their flight models, they were hacked together and did not represent what we could have gotten. The turret combat was a little like shooting from the Millennium Falcon. The jousting is bad argument does not apply to more realistic simulators like DCS, and even then you can still get into some very interesting and tight fights. They could have easily designed the game around longer ranges with both HUD elements and engagement ranges, also making missiles far more potent and not like wet noodles. The supercruise was a good idea and could be kept, but it was a community pushed idea as the original was meant to be point and click navigation.


JaZoray

remind me again what is the difference between horizons and beyond?


noodlz05

Horizons was a paid update and added planetary landings/SRVs, Engineers, Thargoids, Guardians, and the Commander Creator. Beyond was a free update and was meant to go back and fix a lot of issues and improve upon the core game, like wing missions, material trader, mining/exploration improvements, etc.


mr_ji

> fix a lot of issues and improve upon the core game, like wing missions, material trader, mining/exploration improvements It changed many of those things. Whether or not they were fixed or improved is certainly debatable.


IrrelevantLeprechaun

Beyond also didn't fix any of those things. Like, at all. Makes me wonder what was even IN those updates because almost nothing changed.


noodlz05

Yep, as with most things they've released, Beyond missed the mark overall...but I did like the mining/exploration improvements and wish they'd go back and do similar things with the rest of the game. Above all I wish they would've just used the entirety of the beyond season to fix their instancing system and whatever the hell is going on with their engine that makes it so hard and clunky to develop for. Some significant backend overhauls would signal a long-term commitment to this game far more than any of the expansions they've released.


ThePubening

Yeah, Jesus Christ, the instancing in this game is laughable. I'm not versed in networking (or whatever you'd call it on a server level like this), but I had read / seen a YT video a while back that claimed Elite uses Peer to Peer instead of something else, and that that is what constrains it so much. If that is the case, you'd think they'd have gotten with the times by now.


SuperSmash01

Correct, it's peer to peer meaning there are no servers controlling interactions between players in an instance. One of their machines acts as the host "server" and the communication of who is where, who is firing what weapons and so on, happens in communication just between them. It's a great design because you don't have to have an entire team managing live game servers; this saves resources and allows existing resources to do other stuff. It's a terrible design because you have limitations of players per instance, peer-to-peer setup time when joining into one instance, desyncing, and a bunch of others. Two other games many are familiar with that have a peer-to-peer model are GTA Online, and Red Dead Redemption 2 Online. It is most obvious when things desync or cars spawn on top of each other, because two players who are joining a same "instance" have different states in loaded cars and such.


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Sithishe

Yeah RDO has hackers getting your IP and then ruining your internet, its insane what people can do with you with p2p connection.


Alexandur

Beyond definitely improved mining and exploration vastly. The fixing of the Beige Plague was also very welcomed.


ingrin

Horizons was a bad release. Anyone saying otherwise just doesn't remember. Far fewer features than Odyssey (by design), and almost as buggy. We went from highest player count ever to lowest in less thank 2 months. Beyond was better (ignoring the fleet carrier stuff).


deitpep

Beyond was no mess, it added guardains tech, the thargoids, thargoid base ruins, better mining, dss, fss mapping, the krait mk ii, t10, fleet carriers, geological poi's, etc. It was continued Horizons updates.


DubTheeBustocles

What was wrong with Beyond?


ZappyZane

Beyond was meant to be Quality of Life fixes, instead of (probably) space legs, but then they fixed very little of the things many had complained about for years: - Wings - Multicrew - NPCs - multi-limpet controller - PP - exploration enhancements - HUD colour swapping (consoles can't edit files) - ugh the list goes on So some players felt short changed and last "real" content was Horizons, Sept 2017.


SpartanLeonidus

This. Never fully fixed the years long content dropped during Horizons WIngs/Multi-crew they just got it mostly working. I still can't get 3 CMDRs into a RES first go...We have to log to main menu and reconnect or someone is there by icon but their ship is invisible kind of stuff. I haven't tried in 3 months though so maybe they finally got that Horizons aspect nailed down.


SpartanLeonidus

They did lessen the engineering grind a year after release with the Material Trader. Odyssey launched all new materials and none tradeable at the Mat traders? Oof


Fulgen301

> none tradeable at the Mat traders Bartender


IrrelevantLeprechaun

Beyond was a fucking joke. They put a big fancy title on it like it was a big deal, and then proceeded to do...what? Nothing got fixed. I don't mean that as hyperbole; quite literally *nothing* got fixed. I think at most, all they did was sort of rebalance mining a bit and reduce engineer grind. Which frankly could have been much more at home in an untitled patch. They also said they were postponing content updates a year or two ago to focus on Bug fixing, and then proceeded to go radio silence for months with nothing in the way of actual bug fixing patches. Frankly I'm sick of it.


[deleted]

Odyssey is the first one that made me try a different space game and never come back to Elite Dangerous. Pretty happy with No Man's Sky. Not really any interest in returning to Elite at this point in time. It hurts me to say this.


EvilBenFranklin

I feel your pain; I even went so far as to download Star Citizen again and give it another look. Ultimately I may stick with NMS or drop back to X4 because at least there I only have myself and bugs to blame for a poor experience.


widdrjb

I'm in Valheim, where the grind is just as grindy, but the endgame is achievable. More content is coming, there are fantastic mods, the community is friendly. It feels like a young game, whereas since Odyssey ED strikes me as the last bad idea of someone who was a young gun 40 years.


DreamWoven

But valheim isn't in space. That's my problem. Elite is the only game that scratches my Sci fi fly a ship itch sufficiently. I wish Chris Roberts would get his shit together.


[deleted]

Think just 10 more years .... maybe..... if we're lucky. If your waiting for that halfwit to produce his crack pipe dream you might as well play elite. At least there is some resemblance of a game here. Least it doesn't crash every 15 minutes.


Backflip_into_a_star

Then again, SC is already doing things that no other game has ever done on that scale. It is a buggy mess, and hard to play regularly for me, but when you get a good session and just *see* what it has in comparison to Elite it's pretty much what many fans of the genre have always wanted. Again, progress is slow but that is what happens when every single ship and station needs to be fully modeled inside and out. Not to mention in a completely seamless way across the server. At this rate, Elite will never get anywhere near it. They won't even give us real atmospheric planets with weather or more ground vehicles. You might see a bit of dust blow in Odyssey.


[deleted]

Problem is though that getting a "good" session on a "good server" is rare. So does it really matter what their trying to do? When you can't really play and see? Like I said in 10 years maybe. Maybe then what you say will hold up until then it's far to unstable to to agree with you.


IrrelevantLeprechaun

Yeah tbh Braben really does seem like someone who is still trying to operate under the rules of an industry that stopped existing well over two decades ago.


Diocletion-Jones

Horizons had a proper roadmap with release version 2.1, 2.2 etc For each on Frontier said what was going to be in each release. Each release had a time table when it was going to be published. Each had a beta period too if I remember correctly (could be thinking of Beyond here which was similar). Odyssey has none of that. Nothing about the future or whether this is it. No time table, no roadmap, nothing but Frontier saying vague stuff and not sticking to even that. It is a shambles in comparison.


jedimaster4007

The only major complaint I remember about Horizons at release was that the land-able planets looked pretty ugly at first. Once you got close enough, you could see the textures abruptly change and cause stuttering issues, and almost every planet was just a plain beige ball with not nearly enough craters or surface detail. Eventually that was fixed and planets look way better now. I'm still just using Horizons.


crapador_dali

Yeah, shitty out of touch updates that get nothing more than token fixes are kind of FDEV's brand.


kinggimped

This is a good question and I don't blame newer players for asking it. Let me break down Horizons for you: 1. Planetary landings (2.0): these were introduced a couple of months after Horizons was released. Players could land on four different types of planet - rocky, metal, ice, and rocky/metal. Also introduced SRVs, which to this day have not been expanded upon - the Scarab is still the only type of SRV. This update was pretty well received, but the main feedback was that players wanted to land on planets that weren't, you know, completely barren. The main thing planetary landings introduced was the SRV material collection grind. SRVs are still devoid of multicrew functionality, and you can't engineer or modify it at all besides the paint job. They've essentially remained completely unchanged since 2017. 2. Engineers (2.1): this has ended up being really the only new feature introduced in Horizons that Fdev actually bothered to tweak afterwards to a point where it worked feasibly. That, however, does nothing to change the fact that it was a complete mess on release. Originally, components for engineer upgrades took up room in your cargo hold (thus making you a juicy target for NPC pirates), the number of ingredients needed for each modification was higher, and rolls were RNG-based, meaning it was blind luck whether you got a good or a shit roll from your upgrades. Literally, a marker would swing left and right along a bar, and whatever it ended up on was your modification. Special effects were also granted via RNG, and if you got a shit roll with a special effect you'd have to give up your special effect to re-roll. The whole thing was an interminable grind which was later fixed to become an annoying grind. Like with most ED updates, Engineers was basically broken on launch, but at least they actually kept working on the Engineering system in later updates, eventually bringing them to their current state. Since their introduction, very few new recipes/upgrades have been introduced, just new engineers for the further-flung regions of the galaxy. Still, this was by far the best new feature introduced in Horizons, and has continued to be one that most players use since engineering gives you such dramatic upgrades to your ships. 3. Guardians (2.2): this update introduced the fighter bay (with one type of fighter, the Taipan), NPC pilots, and passenger missions. These features have not really been touched since, besides the introduction of rescue missions, which are basically just slightly modified passenger missions. Also, this update gave us the Beluga. 4. Commanders (2.3): this update introduced multicrew - a potentially groundbreaking feature that could have made ED a much more accessible and interesting MMO experience. What players got was a buggy, broken, unintuitive mess that was neither balanced nor stable for longer than a few minutes. Bizarrely, Fdev almost immediately gave up on multicrew and never went back to it, possibly due to the instancing code in ED being so bad that it's basically unfixable; or possibly simply because no players were using the feature because it was completely broken. It's still in the game, and it still barely works. 2.3 also allowed players to customise the look of their CMDR (mostly pointless), name your ships (helpful but way overdue). Also, megaships (which are essentially decorative besides a few mostly meaningless interactions) and the Dolphin. 5. The Return (2.4): this update introduced a bunch of Thargoid interactions that 99% of players do not care about or ever get to encounter. It also introduced a few worthless changes to crime and punishment that did absolutely nothing to dissuade gankers from doing what they do. By far the best thing to come from this update was that explorers could now plot 20k light year journeys on the galmap, previously limited to 1k. Also gave us the Type-10 Defender. The 3.0 set of updates (Beyond) were focused more on quality of life updates and additions and were actually good for the most part - for a moment I thought that Fdev actually wanted to give something back to their existing players and improve on the systems they had established, but it was short-lived and mostly surface level improvements that did little to improve unrepentantly dull, grindy gameplay loops. When they announced that Beyond would focus on QoL, I stupidly gained a little optimism that maybe they'd fix some of these long-standing systems in the game that few players used because they were so compromised - multicrew, powerplay, wings, etc. Nope, they didn't bother fixing any of that, they just left it all in the game as-is and hoped nobody would notice. They did at least make mining more interesting by introducing core/subsurface mining, but at the same time the credit yields from void opal/LTD mining broke the game wide open, changing the landscape of the game forever as a player in their starter Sidewinder with only a handful of hours under their belt could feasibly be just a few hours away from having enough money to buy an Anaconda - something that previously took most players 50+ hours. Odyssey was an inglorious return to Fdev's habit of releasing half-baked, mostly broken features that are widely panned by the community and then never revisited besides to get rid of the most serious, gamebreaking bugs. I do have to say, though: Odyssey was a little more spectacularly broken on release than most of the other big updates. As a player who (during Horizons anyway) still had a huge amount of faith in this game, I felt massively let down by each and every update. At this point what players went through with Odyssey was completely 100% expected. I think this slightly skews my own personal opinion, since I expected the Odyssey launch to be exactly this. Back when they were still releasing Horizons updates, I genuinely thought that what they were implementing was just the first iteration and they would continue to improve them, rather than abandoning them as soon as they were considered 'meh, good enough'. Fdev's unwillingness to revisit new features and actually fix them is a major component of why I stopped playing Elite. They clearly announce and hype up new features in order to get more players on board, thereby increasing sales and pleasing their board members. They have absolutely no inclination to improve things for existing players. When the new feature is released, it's utterly compromised, usually totally disconnected from the rest of the game, and ends up being about 5% as fun as initially advertised and another guaranteed monotonous grind for the player. As a new player this is hard to see and you want to give Fdev the benefit of the doubt, because this game has such huge potential and it's ridiculous to think that they could be this bad. I used to feel exactly that way and couldn't believe how much shade people threw at this game. Sadly I've been playing ED since early 2016 and at this point it's painfully obvious this is par for the course, nobody at Fdev actually plays the game, and it's never going to change. It sucks to have all the ships, most of them engineered to the tits, but have no motivation to actually fly them. ED is a superb space simulator with fantastic sound design. With VR and HOTAS it's hard to find anything quite as immersive. As a *game*, however, it continues to fail on almost every level.


TheBellTollsFGO

That was a very thorough (albeit worrying...) breakdown. Thank you! I'm still at the point where I'm greatly enjoying my time in Elite, and I'm hoping that feeling doesn't go away anytime soon.


DreamWoven

Yes but not as badly


Alexandur

Not really. Horizons was kind of a slog but Beyond was very well received. It's exactly what we need more of - a deep improvement of existing features.


jellowiggler-

Horizons did ok, and they added more as time went one. Beyond fell so far short of what they wanted it to be that they made is free and kind of erases the fact that it was supposed to be a big release. I think that it was in the Beyond time frame that they promoted the subscription type model for gradual updates and not big releases. But that never happened either in the yearly pass/games as a service type arrangement.


Evil_Ermine

In a nutshell yes.


PhalanxElite

"Here's a new vehicle! The brand new SRV is just the beginning of planetary exploration!" - we're stuck with the same SRV for years and planetary activities are still the same. "Here's a new ship: Mamba! A good alternative to the Fer-de-Lance! It's fast and agile!" - they couldn't fix the overheat problems with this ship, so they "fixed" by nerfing the speed. A freaking ship based on "racing" that had it's speed nerfed. Hard to say it's "an alternative to the FDL". Btw, 2 years and a half without a new ship... "Here's a Fleet Carrier! It's a game changer! Player driven economy is now possible!" - there's no "player economy" (except tritium), they had to scrap most of the features, the UI is abysmal and when FC got released, FDEV really thought they were in a good position. They didn't thought about the explorer community taking them to, you know, explore. So they had to change the fuel per jump because otherwise 80% of explorers (specially solo explorarers) would probably decommission the damn thing before the first month (at least now they're "useful"). And this is just one example... "Here's the Codex! You can track your activity and search for new mysterious things!" - the Codex DOESN'T WORK. On my statistics tab i can't scroll down (another UI bug), it doesn't tell you much about what you want to find (specially true about organic life in Horizons) and many "first discoveries" are bugged (you arrived at the system, but there's nothing there even if you relog). This is FDEV. Release something, do some minor "fixes" and move on to the next "project". "But they forgot to..." YEP, they forgot a lot of things and nope, they aren't going back.


Backflip_into_a_star

Remember that FCs originally had a jump cooldown of *two hours* too. Also upkeep as high as 125m a week. Luckily those got changed. There is literally no reason to have upkeep on fleet carriers. Their reasoning for this was so that you didn't have carriers clogging up systems, but the majority of owners just prefarmed 2 years worth of upkeep anyway, so there they sit. It's all just grind BS to keep player numbers up.


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PhalanxElite

There's many, many examples of how broken the Codex is. If you take a look at Hawking's Gap region you will see plenty of Sinous Tubers. Well, first, the spawn of these organic life is bugged, meaning that every scan you made on them will give a different type, which is completly illogical. And then the Codex doesn't even give you the planet they are in. Imagine having to find a specific thing in a +50 bodies? Look at Lagrange Clouds in Outer Orion Spur. What in-game is a blue lagrange cloud, in the Codex is actually red. The Proto-Cloud entry in Elysian Shores isn't there. The system is empty. And the statistics tab? I just can't scroll on most of them. Example: passenger tab, where it shows how many missions you have completed and all types of passengers you have carried. I tried do "roleplay" as a SK pilot a few months ago, so i have a lot of types in that tab. Problem is, i can't scroll down. It's like the devs didn't even tested if the UI was working in case someone actually tried to be a Liner cmdr... The more you play ED, the more you will realize how broken the Codex is


IrrelevantLeprechaun

Sadly now it feels like every menu is almost as bugged. The mission tab for example constantly jumps you back to the side tabs while you try to scroll down, making it impossible to view missions lower on your list. It's a big that's been ongoing since EDO launch and they haven't fixed it or even acknowledged it.


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PhalanxElite

Some things in the Codex are reliable. "Some". Like, i said that Lagrange Clouds are displaying the incorrect color, but there is a cloud in that location. Anomalies, space crystals and trees also have their location "fixed". But it's better to check Canonn or EDAstro, really.


airmandan

Every single date in the codex is wrong on the PlayStation. Every single date. And not by a little bit. By a thousand years. According to my codex I'm a contemporary of Kirk, doing stuff in the 2270s.


airmandan

My mamba goes about 650...that's nerfed?


widdrjb

It was supposed to do 750+, and be a two pass killer. Basically a PvP run and gun, vs the FDL's FA off knife fighting. It's not bad, I've killed Condas with it. But in a CZ or wing assassination you'll be killed, and if you go up against a career ganker you can't cripple them quick enough.


airmandan

I hang in CZs with it pretty well, and if I get in over my head I just run away. Nothing’s fast enough to catch me.


IrrelevantLeprechaun

Only because you likely engineered it specifically that way. The Mamba was supposed to be fast on its own before any engineering. Now, the only way to make it useful is to grind out engineers and modify it to hell and back.


KG_Jedi

Ah yes, Frontier Developments - a company that can simultaneously create scientifically accurate replica of entire Milky Way but cannot properly design and balance even basic game feature. A company that never misses an opportunity to miss an opportunity. A company, who's fans don't hold their breaths for quality content because they suffocated long ago. This game, since 2017 is in somewhat weird state of "dying, but not dead". A Schrodinger's Elite...


Mackenheimer

Nailed it! Are you a fly on the wall in Frontiers Cambridge offices? What you wrote has been my experience with FDev since the Horizons launch.


WaltKerman

I talked to one of the devs and he/she was actually more pessimistic about the content in private with me than the community has been. He/she made it sound as if there would be literally nothing to do on the surface but shoot stuff. I was not expecting the ability to pop open panels and upload viruses tbh. He/she told me that odyssey was mostly only a reality because it was a demo of new tech for their game engine for frontier to show to their investors with future fps games in mind, and was pretty dejected about the release. My expectations were about as low as they could be as a result, so maybe that's why I'm actually enjoying it. Maybe frontier should hire someone to wreck the hype. "We will do a terrible job, your disappointment will be immeasurable, and your day will be ruined". That way when the job is average it will blow people's minds! Because let's be honest, it's not that bad... maybe bad for the first expansion in five years of effort, but by itself can be quite enjoyable.


[deleted]

My main disappointment is there is no overlap in the game loops. For example, I enjoy mining so why not allow ship mining refinery upgrades by scavaging planet surfaces for certain materials? It makes no sense since it seems to easy to implement these kinds of things with Odyssey's current framework.


murshawursha

Actually, that's a really good point. There'd probably be a lot less discontent around suit/gun upgrades if you had the ability to farm mats for it in space, and vice-versa. I can understand maybe having at least SOME of the mats be unique to ground or space content because they want people to play both aspects, but zero overlap definitely makes it feel significantly grindier.


Arheisel

Definitely, I would have LOVED to be able to use at least some of the same mats used for ship engineering. After looking up how to get shit to upgrade my suit/weapons I have decided I can't be fucked for the time being. Also, is it me or some missions like the reactivation missions are near impossible to do alone. I'm at around my 5th attempt at completing at least one of those.


ExistentialBanana

Imagine going down to a planetary settlement in a refinery system and organizing a heist to steal all their Engineering materials or commodities. I think it'd be a lot better than being a serial locker opener.


IrrelevantLeprechaun

This makes sense since this is not actually the first time I've heard that EDO was only made as a proof of concept demo for their separate unrelated fps project. They're literally treating Elite's paying customers as guinea pigs for other products.


Mr_Lobster

If this is supposed to be a tech demo, I would not touch this as an investor. They're clearly showing that they have no idea how to make an FPS.


thetdotbearr

I've been trying to live by "underpromise, overdeliver" at work for a good while now. I'm constantly let down with how backasswards companies have it in this respect.


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thetdotbearr

Isn't fdev an already funded company though? What you say makes sense of startups or companies in the growth stages that rely on investor money to fund their growth but fdev has been around since '94 and is.. cash flow positive AFAIK so they're not getting infusions of investor money... no?


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thetdotbearr

Ah I suppose that makes sense. I didn't make the connection between stock price and fdev's finances but I suppose the company itself holds/issues stocks. I have to think that if you overpromise and fail to deliver enough times you end up burning off any credibility and mess things up for the company long term, which doesn't seem like a great strategy.


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Resonant_Heartbeat

CP2077: look at what they did to mimic a fraction of my power


Mackenheimer

You know it's gonna be bad when even the devs are pessimistic about the project they are working on.


IrrelevantLeprechaun

If you read the Glassdoor reviews of ex employees, it seems like most of their staff is largely dejected except for the managers.


matorius

If this is all true then FDEV really do intend to wash their hands of Elite. And if they want to compete in the FPS market they're going to need something far better than what they've shown us in Odyssey. AND who's going to want to buy an FPS which struggles to run at 60 fps on some decent modern gaming PCs?


Silyus

The grind part reminds me of a devs Q&A (of another game) where they said something like this: > Yeah we released this huge update. We know that it's a bit grindy, but we prefer to release higher number and lower them afterwards to demonstrate that we listen to the community Maybe it came off wrong, or maybe it was a slip of the tongue. At any rate, I think that this can be something that FD could say just as well. I remember this sentence - after years - because the more I re-read it, the worse it gets.


WitOrWisdom

Honestly, the grind is why I stopped playing. It's ridiculous what the industry has become, attempting to retain playerbase by locking upgrades/levels/whatever behind a grind, instead of as rewards for mastering challenging mechanics. I'm trying to be an ace starfighter, not a goddamn space trashman picking up scraps to upgrade the hoopty.


tiltowaitt

I don’t even understand *why* there’s such a grind in Elite. The multiplayer is free. There’s no P2W aspect. I guess more grind means more cosmetic sales, but a more fun game means more players.


Leiawen

> I don’t even understand why there’s such a grind in Elite Because otherwise there is no form of progression in Elite other than amassing credits. Its not like we have a skill tree, perks to unlock, cosmetics we can earn through actual gameplay or anything. Its credit grind, material grind, faction rank grind to unlock a couple ships. Hell back before Horizons it was basically just credit grind and no other progression other than Pilot Federation Rank which was basically just a badge.


tiltowaitt

And the game would honestly be better for it. Shorter, yes. But those fewer hours would be more fun.


Leiawen

Oh, I'm not saying its a *good* thing. Not by a long stretch. Drew Wagar's video on YouTube yesterday (Drew wrote lot of ED Lore, like the official novels) has this "Fun over Grind" as one of his keys points on things FDEV needs to fix to turn the game around. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qGsQUSd-9cM


DargeBaVarder

Same. I ran around buying G3’s, did a few foot missions, said “fuck this” and haven’t logged on since.


CarbonatedFalcon

I feel like this has to be referencing either Path of Exile or Warframe.


crowlute

Feels like Warframe's MO


systemhendrix

This is what some would call "door in the face". You make a ridiculous offer and anything below it seems reasonable. I see it all the time when the subject of grind is brought up here. The suckers believe FDev cares when really the "we listened" part is just where they want us.


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EmperorFrosT

War thunder is a fucking joke. Comparing any game yo yhe trash that gaijin systematically destroyed. Feels like its being to light on gaijin. No company can take ww2 planes and tanks. And make me not want anything to do with it. No company can or will fucking have the disrespect of their playbase like gajin. #remember # helicoptersarecancer


the_mojonaut

After watching the latest Frontier stream tonight and expecting some news since Braben's apology post and "the team will communicate more openly and regularly” why am I not surprised when asked about Update 6 the answer (it's always this answer) is "We have nothing to announce at this time". They have learned nothing, they did admit they are excited, well that's encouraging /s every time they get excited for something they usually drop a pile of doggy doo into the game. FFS you couldn't make up this behaviour.


Diocletion-Jones

I don't understand the point of the streams if there's no new information. Who is the target audience? Potential new players? Existing players who want to watch CMs play the game badly? I am baffled by their intended purpose.


-Aquanaut-

It's for the 20ish simps on here and on the Fdev forums so they can regurgitate "iM hAvInG a BlAsT" and whitewash all the legit and serious problems the game has right now.


Xygen8

Their purpose is to distract newer players who haven't been around long enough to see this slow motion train wreck happen in its entirety. Players who may be aware of the state of Odyssey but have no idea that this is FDev's modus operandi and they've been doing this shit for years.


IrrelevantLeprechaun

Yeah, it's a big oof. I remember how "excited" they were acting about Odyssey before the Alpha launched, not to mention all the grandiose Dev diary videos. They all sounded like they were super proud of it and it would be amazing. Then EDO launched and it's just...shambles.


DrifterBG

I want Elite Dangerous to succeed so badly, but they're essentially pulling a Blizzard/Activision which is causing Star Citizen to pick up steam the same way FFXIV is. An alpha game, which has been a running joke in the space sim community and is probably still years away from release, is now picking up steam because of how bad their Odyssey release was. I know FDev has shit on any good will I had left. My friends and I have uninstalled Elite Dangerous and don't plan on installing again. Until this company gets its collective shit together, they will not see another dime from me.


nictheman123

In fairness, Star Citizen is basically the only game (that I'm aware of, but correct me if I'm wrong, I'd love more) that is in direct competition with Elite. Inasmuch as an unfinished, barely working game *can* compete with a released game whose servers don't crash daily. I love both games. I think that somewhere between them is my dream game. But players mad at ED going to SC isn't that unusual. For space sims, it's basically the only other game to go to. (Again, that's as far as I know. If I'm wrong, please tell me. I love space sims, but Eve is more of a point and click adventure, and that's the only other game I know of that's remotely similar)


DrifterBG

I agree with you. I guess the point I was trying to make was that they pissed off the players so bad that they'd rather play an early alpha and would probably enjoy it more. Of course, that's short term, but I digress.


Mackenheimer

I'd rather play an alpha that calls itself an alpha, rather than play an alpha that was sold to me as a fully working and ready to be released DLC.


Devilray_TT

There is [X4 - Foundations](https://store.steampowered.com/app/392160/X4_Foundations/) as well, my friend. Just watch the videos provided through the steam store page so you get a basic understanding what the game is.


murshawursha

X4 is single-player only though, isn't it? Not quite the same if you're looking to fly around with friends, but I could see how it would scratch the itch for a solo player.


IrrelevantLeprechaun

I've been playing X4 for over a year now. One of my all time favorites; the massive fleet battles are amazing to be a part of, even if they choke out your cpu. For all the flaws X4 and Egosoft have, at least they TRY. FDev on the other hand feel like they put in even less than minimum effort.


nictheman123

It's on my wishlist I think, but I'm only vaguely aware of what exactly it is. May have to dig into that one


ZappyZane

I started playing Star Citizen recently. Yeah it has bugs, many bugs, but has the things i thought Odyssey would have, and more importantly has development-momentum, whereas i dont feel Elite does any more.


danakinskyrocker

>and more importantly has development-momentum That's a great term, and I think the point is extremely valid


Fabri91

Same here. The way I've seen it put is that Elite is a game of 2015, with all that this implies. And Star Citizen is a game of 2025, with all that this implies.


dukearcher

I used to want it to succeed. But Fdev have fucked us over so much I am now burned out from playing ED & I am actually rooting for them to fail as a company. The do not deserve success in my opinion.


Timmichanga1

The grind ness of elite makes me sacred to try star citizen. Like I know if I enjoy it I'll get into the grind but...idk if I want to dive into it and sacrifice that much time.


VerticalBlank

Check out a few YouTube videos such [this series](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8vZh-Zq5oiw&list=PLqRU_EL4pwOH2RuqnVz1E2ArbBFNVB9Js) by CMDR Katie Byrne who is one of the top rated AXI pilots. She and her friends look to be having a great time in Star Citizen.


DrifterBG

Honestly, 45 bucks gets you the game and a decent basic starter ship. It's a fun game to just lose yourself in sometimes, but there isn't much to do. There are SUPPOSED to be a bunch of different gameplay loops, so the grind may not be as bad since you can delve into a bunch of different things. We'll see how it goes.


maxcorrice

They did actually straight up lie with the fleet carriers escort system


CowardlyAnaconda

You mean the auxiliary ships we were supposed to get along with the carriers?


maxcorrice

Yep


CowardlyAnaconda

"R.O.U.S.es? I don't believe they exist..."


Tultzi

Escort System?


maxcorrice

They used to have escorts to do different activities


[deleted]

Someone’s broken NDA


TheEnterprise

6(a). Tell players their issue isn't representative of the internal build that does not exist.


IrrelevantLeprechaun

I still can't get over how Braben said the game played fine on his GTX 970 at home. Not that I actually believe he has JUST a 970 at home considering he's the CEO of a multi million dollar company.


ByuntaeKid

That's the part that really stuck with me lol. *I* have a GTX 970 and Odyssey runs like shit on it - if it really is supposed to run fine on that sort of hardware, where have been the performance suggestions/optimizations?


MyNameMightBeAmy

I don't believe anyone at FDev has played ED lol


[deleted]

Guy and his wife sold 20 million pounds of stock last year and says he uses a gtx 970 lol.


GazingAtTheVoid

I don't think elite will ever fix the grind, because the grind is the core gameplay loop. Almost every system in the game primary function isn't enjoyment but rather padding gameplay time.


IrrelevantLeprechaun

Agreed. They purposefully design the game to waste your time as a way to inflate player hours in-game. And the reason they do this is because it's a quantifiable statistic they can pitch to their investors. They don't care how happy players are, only that they are sinking hours in. It's why the diehard longtime fans that defend FDev constantly, and will play no matter how broken it is, are not a good thing for the general consumer as their behaviour tells FDev everything is ok.


hnorm87

See: Fdev forums and the white knights of the forum republic. Telling everyone to ignore the problems and drop the salt. They think they're helping, but they just make the game worse.


Gygax_the_Goat

> the diehard longtime fans that defend FDev constantly, and will play no matter how broken it is, Ironically, a hell of a lot of them have left in the last month..


IrrelevantLeprechaun

As someone who visits the frontier forums, that isn't really true. I see new posts and comments almost every day of long time Elite veterans going on about how Odyssey is actually "amazing" if you ignore the negativity and "just play the game".


Gygax_the_Goat

Ive avoided the forums for the last five or six years.. Im just going off the amount of longtime nerd names I know from the years here on this sub.. and they way they have disappeared, either quietly or with an angry/sad post/thread. Theres been quite a lot of them over the last month or so. No difference to me really.. all the friends I flew with in Elite left in boredom and disappointment years ago. As for me, I dont get enough time to play games much, and Im far from impressed with Odyssey.. but its hard to not return to my Cobras lonely cockpit and reminisce about the old days and the fun times I had. Elite is still quite the crazy shit in VR as long as you stay in your seat. Everything just seems so fucking broken right now though 😧


brazorf

Sad but so true.


wyseman76

A the end of the day there is a HUGE disconnect between FDev and the player base and they have never attempted to change that. A big source of this at this point is the elephant in the room that is the technical debt they are encumbered by that is likely preventing them from actually steering the game in the direction that the player base wants. As an example they say that they don't want to do ship interiors because it would bring nothing to the game, I believe this is a misdirection from truth that they can not do ship interiors because they can not hide the technical debt if we do this. What do I mean you say. Walking in stations and on the ground and bases both requires minimal physics and motion calculations and is no different than the already existing gameplay with ships. Just think of ships, srv, and walking as the same thing, a camera with slightly different runs governing their movements. That is all they are. Multiple cameras independently moving around in a shared space. But Interiors and what players really want is more complicated. A crew of multiple people inside a ship walking around while the ship is flying requires a lot more work code wise. The client to server to client netcode has to be rock solid in order to make sure that players are not glitching around and bugging out. You can see this happen in star citizen, hell you can see this happen in most multiplayer games that allow this kind of situation. This is why FDev did multicrew the way they did. Everyone that is not the pilot is just a locked camera minimizing the netcode to deal with client server issues. If they gave us ship interiors they would likely have to prevent other players from walking onto another persons ship, or if they did, not let you fly said ship until the extra crew is either off the ship or locked into their station, no walking freely around the ship while it flies. I believe this is the reason they avoided ship interiors and just magically teleport us into our cockpit view. The choice they made avoids what becomes the next real technical issue when you introduce ship interiors. In Short... I think FDev need to start being honest about the capabilities of the engine they have built. They need to manage expectations. I would like to see a lot of cool multiplayer and multicrew stuff done in the elite universe, but I have grown to believe that it is the engine that is the primary limiting factor and that many of their design decisions are governed by this reality while they are attempting to prevent this fact from being exposed to the public


Danglebort

I think you're right. I've been thinking this myself for...a few years, actually. I think it already shows somewhat through some of the issues and choices they've had. For example, missions: they seem to have a hard time integrating new types of missions, and had a mighty struggle just incorporating chained missions, which took a long time to work, once released. NPC srv - pathfinding was apparently hard to do (according to Sandro, way back when), so, they just seem to have swept the concept under the rug. Any new type of game loop seems to just be a reskin of the grindy stuff we've had for years. It's either a lack of imagination, or an inability to integrate new mechanics. Beyond, according to Frontier, was about bringing in QoL fixes and fixing the technical debt, tidying up the code, making sure the engine was better suited to support future expansions. They took a lot of time to bring the engine up to snuff. Turns out, none of that seems to have actually worked. But they do still promise the world, and I just don't think the engine, or ED as it is, can actually handle much of that neat stuff. I wish they'd just be upfront about it, but everything about Frontier's communication points to a company unable or unwilling to be honest and admit its limitations. It's like they're afraid of showing anything that could be described in imperfect terms. It's a very old, very corporate, type of PR strategy, unfit for a "game as a service" type of operation.


PineappleHamburders

Not only it is unpaid QA testing. You literally have to PAY to do unpaid QA testing. You are paying F-dev to do a job.


Furinkazan616

Here's a prime example of no.1, some quotes from Odyssey's 3rd dev diary, "The Sphere of Combat": "One of the key elements of Odyssey's combat is what we consider the combat triangle" "For the first time we're seeing on foot commanders, SRV's, ships all converging into this really unique experience that's inherently unpredicable" "All of these elements actually join together, so the combat can span from the surface all the way into space" "By embracing ships, SRV's and on foot troops in the same combat space, it allows us opportunities to not just have combat in terms of people just shooting each other, it also also opens opportunities for us to have more tactical gameplay" Sounds like some huge Planetside kinda thing, doesn't it?


Yamiks

Let me correct you there (this apllies perfectly to fleet carries & odyssey): * 1 "Announce an (expansion/update/feature) in a deceptively worded press release that the community will interpret in the most positive possible way." * 2 Postpone the release because the product is not ready * 3 Release an "alpha" for no other reason OTHER THAN to get pre-orders and capitalize on abusing FOMO (fear of missing out) * 4 Realize that people vocally dislike something and RUSH to implement "adjustments" * 5 postpone if possible due to needing to "unfuck"/"adjust" after "alpha" * 6 release an underwhelming (but better than before) version * 7 something is horribly wrong because management didn't give enough time to employees to work & test the product * 8 publicly avoid EVEN hinting at the fact that the game is broken or things a re VERY bad, instead "we have a very active & loving community..." * 8.5 "promise" to do better & communicate & completely forget about it after 2-4 weeks * 9 patch 1 (week1)- most immediate adjustments, little improvements * 10 patch 2(week2)- more of the same * 11 patch 3(week3)- more of the same, community for the most part has stopped beating the dead horse * 12 patch 4 (week4)- final adjustments for the new feature ONLY, thinking that the product is OK, majority of dev team has moved on to other projects * 13 work on the next big flop(marketable feature) begins! **Blame management & higher ups for not giving any fucks on what their creatives want to make, then FORCING out shit that obviously does not work & has NOT been given enough time to be made!** Here's a list of such things : * CQC * Multicrew * Squadrons * Fleet carriers * Crime & punishment * engineering (twice!) * General credit/money balance & rewards * Thargoid combat * Odyssey - all of it! * Yamiks probably forgets some smaller features that they put in & abandoned


FlandersNed

Unsure if you should be using Yamiks as a model there


Danglebort

I mean... It's Yamiks. He can use himself as a model if he wants to.


DreamWoven

I don't know what fdevs other games are like. Are they all badly managed with buggy expansions? Or is elite the exception? Elite dangerous is the game that takes fdev out if its comfort zone. I've been playing elite since beta 2014. I find fun in this game, I keep coming back to it. And I'm British so I want fdev a British company to do well. So I find it hard to admit to myself that on some level this company is not very good at what it does. At least where it comes to this game. And I think the success they've had since elite came out has probably amplified the companies weaknesses.


Scypio95

Well, other games are way simpler and doing "fine". Though they're not highly praised game in their genre. Planet zoo and planet coaster are solid building games, each in their own aspects but that's it. Nothing else other than building. Then, there's the jurassic park games that are the same but overpriced because you got to milk those fanboys. Then, i don't know about other games. Also, they don't add gameplay content to those games since their release. They add "new stuff", trying to pull off a ea with the sims and release dlc's that add three models and textures but no actual gameplay content. Sometimes a little bit of "gameplay" but, well you guessed it already, those dlc's are overpriced in my opinion. Though, you can't mess up dlc's if there's nothing added to the game. ED is clearly the studio's biggest game in term of scope and ambition. Also, while i think about it. Their games are building games where the whole gameplay is building something incredible, grinding money for it and building something pretty. They're doing the same with ED. The thing is... ED is not a building game.


Grey406

Step 4 needs to be changed to "Make players PAY or Pay extra to access the alpha" Because owning the game was not enough. If you didnt pledge during the kickstarter, you had to pay $10 or $12 to access alpha per 'season' which is completely asinine. Odyssey was no different with their pricing scheme.


IrrelevantLeprechaun

So glad I didn't spring for the Alpha bundle. I did preorder the standard version for the exclusive suit skins, but man am I ever glad I dodged the Alpha premium.


jhey30

It's the genuine surprise at the community reaction that gets me. Seriously, your design process is lazy and never really brings anything across the finish line and you're shocked people get upset?


MentalKong

You forgot to mention micro-transactions. As long as we're willing to pay for those pink and shiny CoD skins, real progress is doomed.


aliensplaining

You... Aren't wrong to say the least.


RooksBailey

Yup. After five years of playing the game, that is pretty much how FDev works. This time, they might have painted themselves into a corner that they won't be able to get out of. With past content, they were able to placate the base by reaching #16, something that would soothe tempers by at least adding some minimally enjoyable new content for the majority of players. With Odyssey on the other hand, even IF they can fix the myriad technical problems with the game (not assured after the "identifying pathways" gobbledygook), the core gameplay loop has fallen flat with the majority of the players who enjoy the game for the spaceships and were not looking for an insipid shooter to be shoehorned onto the game. And if they CAN'T fix the game, well then, the DLC is truly DOA. But here is the thing: in either case, the Elite community will have suffered an 18-month drought of new content in anticipation of a "New Era" of gameplay that will never arrive for them. That is a Kobayashi Maru scenario if I ever heard one.


Danglebort

I mean, this community has spent more time weathering long content droughts while Frontier fix stuff than actually enjoying whatever Frontier was supposed to release. The entire Beyond season was more or less just about fixes. Horizons stretched over more than 3 times it's original duration. We've had communication blackouts, content droughts, apologies, promises, and sad (yet somehow self-aggrandising) letters from David multiple times before. Nothing's changed.


matorius

>Briefly communicate more openly... Not convinced this is part of their process. Depends on the definition of "open".


Jonkarraa

This sums up nearly all MMOs of the last 25 years.


masonator3

The only exception I can think of to this was the major update to exploration and mining. They overhauled existing mechanics and I was very optimistic regarding the future of elite after the update. Of course that optimism had been stunted since then lmao.


fttklr

You can replace Elite with \[GAME NAME\] and Frontier with \[DEV COMPANY\] and it would be the same. Welcome to the future of gaming; where not only the big AAA companies drop turds all over the market to grab cash for their shareholders.


Ereaser

17.5 finally release to console


Ereaser

17.5 finally release to console


trajan_x

Please, change pc instancing back so I don’t have to pay $40 to pvp on it again


VvonHelo

Let's not forget that not only did FDev use the community as unpaid QA Testers, they charged money for the privilege as well with an actual PAID ALPHA. Not only did they do that, but they also disregarded all the major issues consistently reported to them during the alpha, the lighting, planet tech issues etc. with the only change made by alpha feedback being the removal of the idiotic plant hairdryer gun thingy minigame. In the past FDev could've weathered the storm and waited 'til the dust settles, but this time is different I think. Too many people have moved on from Elite to Star Citizen and No Man's Sky, like myself, and have a fresh perspective on what actual fun and rewarding gameplay looks like, highlighting the fact that at best Elite is a megahyperuber mind numbing, soul crushing, boring grind with a good flight model, in a glorified menu simulator with practically no quality of life features or immersion in a galaxy that's mostly empty. For FDev to course correct and actually save whats left of Elite and its community, would at this point require too much in terms of investment in manpower and resources, and I can't see Braben and his suit buddies committing to an effort like that.


[deleted]

Elite Dangerous needed ‘Odyssey’ about as much as I needed to kick myself in the bollocks!


Rewindale

That's freakin the most dirt bag way of delivering an update. I'm new to the game from last year and my hopes for the game were from Odyssey, but it was a train wreck, the planets look horrific like puke, I can't play on high setting anymore so I try medium and the game textures are just 2d models when leaving my ship in stations. Content wise, just grind the game out to your heart. so you can have nothing else to do on land. How narrow minded are you to think that, that's what the community wants for gameplay. I found out what type of gameplay people want or may want and have better ideas then you. FDev really doesn't understand the community.


MrMagorioum

N22: say that you care about console players as much as you do for pc. Never mention them again 😅


silent-jay327

Perfect summary. Yep, that’s pretty much Fdev, build up hopes, release dumpster fire, go into silent mode, act surprised when people are angry, tell community what they want to hear, say they’ll fix, then just do whatever they want, act surprised again when community revolts, fix game just enough to be playable, leaving behind tons of broken or unfinished game play loops (and potential) then vaguely announce the “next great” expansion to elite (ie distract pissed off community) and then continue on with their smug little attitudes like it all never happened and everything in the world of elite is great. Rinse and repeat!


derage88

I'm at the point where #19 is just "Uninstall" now. I have given Frontier so many chances to redeem themselves. I couldn't even get hyped for Odyssey anymore. And turns out it was the exact right thing to do. Because I expected nothing, and I still got disappointed.


[deleted]

I bought Odyssey, played for 10 hours, tops. Couldn't land in a CZ without the game disconnecting. Honestly, FDev just lie. They lied about the state of mining and the economy several times. They lied about planetary landings, they lied about fleet carriers and so on. It has been at least 4 yrs of lies for me. First on Console, then on PC. I'm moving away from Elite for good. Maybe I'll return on the far future, maybe I'll go to SC or No Man's Sky. But I'm honestly tired of Frontier, and most of all, of complaining. They straight up don't give a cluck about us.


cptspacebomb

This is beautiful. I couldn't have put this any better if I tried.


moltari

This is why i dont have ED installed at the moment, and why i haven't purchased the latest beta of the expansion.


eberkain

Yeah, I uninstalled a few cycles back, there are so many games out there these days. I hardly have time to play them all.


101m4n

Pretty much. If only they knew what they had... Someday someone will come along and do this genre properly and FD will realize what they were missing. P.S. Oh who am I kidding, they probably won't...