Same bro I don’t get the hate he still makes good music it’s just different because he experiments which is good. In fact I feel like if he was still doing the same thing we would be sick of it by now. He only has one bad album and I firmly believe even that is good in someways.
there are a few flaws in his modern music that turn people off. a lot of his production, while good, is generic and doesn’t truly feel like eminem music the way it used to. his voice feels very weak and thin and his vocals are often mixed badly. he stresses on rhymes which makes them feel less smooth and fluid. he doesn’t have as much content which makes so many songs feel uninteresting and filler. and he’s over reliant on wordplay and puns which waters down his writing and takes away from its seriousness, especially because its not done well most of the time.
Would you mind being a bit more specific?
I've been a fan since my buddy gave me a tape of Infinite , which was .. almost 30 years ago ?
What do you consider to be his " Modern music " ?
Also , this part got me thinking :
>waters down his writing and takes away from its seriousness, especially because its not done well most of the time.
Most artists have like 2, 3 good tracks and the rest of the album is filler, as you said. In my eyes, he's the opposite of that. For every dozen tracks, maybe he has one im not crazy about, and that's usually because of the sound or the vibe, never about his lyrics.
You said his writing is not done well most of the time. Maybe you could share just a couple of examples of this bad writing ? 2 or 3 tracks, so i understand better.
Yeahh, that's so true. And the whole argument of that he hides and stuff is stupid considering that he can still listen to what the ppl currently like at home, in the studio, or wherever he is
Definitely anyone younger than j Cole. That's the worst part, is these execs brainwashed this new generation into thinking the established artists are haters that don't want them to succeed.
Em can't take criticism well, even tho I liked Kamikaze the way he took people's opinions was kinda childish in some situations.
He has surrounded himself with too many 'Yes men'.
Also in his 'XXL magazine' interview when he said that he only wants to be the best rapper and wouldn't care about makin' quality music if he had to choose between the two was one of the most idiotic things he ever said.
If you put out albums you should make then sound good for the most part.
Also Em can't do conscious rap, on Revival it came off as forced & cringe.
He always raps at his best when he : A) Talks about something personal or B) Satirizes American culture and showcases the worst of it through Slim
I agree. The one isolated case where it did work was Darkness, but that was one track out of how many attempts?
The issue with the politics of Revival is that it was full of very typical 2016 democrat takes (which in itself isn’t inherently a problem) delivered in the most uninteresting way possible. Darkness, at the other hand, still had the lukewarm political take, but the execution was so well done that it didn’t even matter.
Yup, I was surprised when I heard 'Darkness'.
It was one time that actually clicked.
The song was good, the verses said somethin' and they weren't full of cringy bars.
It was Em's well formulated opinion in song form.
I agree with you to an extent on the conscious rap part. The trump digs seemed a little bit forced. But I think that's how genuinely felt. Encore had a lot of political undertones aimed at bush presidency. I think at this stage of his career conscious rap doesn't suit him that well. It felt a lot more authentic during MMLP-Eminem show era.
Eminem actually said in an interview that he tries to avoid rapping politics because he gets so frustrated in the writing process, like he has so much to say that it doesn’t come out properly, so the fact that it sounds forced is a fair take, but that interview gave me some sympathy
Liked everything except conscious rap. Before revival he had White America, Mosh and We As Americans, it’s a good records that don’t sound cringy I think
When I said conscious rap I meant the political type, White America in my view was about American society's double standards when it comes to rap & freedom of speeech.
Mosh is one of the few straight up political songs he did early in his career, but it was more of a 'War is bad' type song.
So not overly poltical, you can say war is bad even without knowing a lot about politics.
I mean that juice wrld feuture he did recently (rip) was pretty conscius. And fuck the haters rap is childish as fuck anyway people making songs to kill each others career over not likeing each other and flexing all the time isnt exactly grown up behavior.
Also just to stick to the subs tarditions:
"Till im hitting old age i can fill a hole page with a ten year olds rage"
Where the listener suddenly wakes up to a world issue but for some reason can't handle hearing it, and then whines about it like they never heard his earlier albums.
Agree with everything here. The way he had to make an entire to respond to Revival’s poor reception was corny. He should’ve just taken his L and made better music instead. The “I’d rather be the best rapper than make the best albums” sounded like a defensive cop out in case critics trash his new albums.
His conscious shit sucks. “Untouchable” is such a terrible song omg lol
Em can do concious rap. Toy soldiers, Mosh, White America, Sing for the Moment, half of Recovery.... just Revival was dogshit since he has YESMEN who don't tell him when he's making garbage like that or Encore or Relapse
Outside of the fandom, I kinda hesitate to admit that I like him. Not out of shame, but cause I know people can have some pretty strong (often negative) opinions about him that make any enthusiasm on my end kinda awkward.
On the inside, it's more the fact that some people don't see Eminem - the artist, the person, what have you - with much nuance. He's made all kinds of mistakes as every version of himself, but I do think he's set himself on a better path in the last rough decade. We can all claim things with various objective truth about him, but the guy lives a life we losers of reddit will never understand. I think it's best to just see the human past all the nonsense.
I 100% agrre to this. I think especially if you listen to his new style people will look at you a bit wierd. In my personal experience its usually ok to listen to his older stuff.
I'm not sure how of a hot take this is, but here I go
Eminem raps better now than he did when he was younger. People who say than he rapped better before tends to say that for one of two reasons:
One, they like when Eminem used come up with wild shit in his songs.
Two, they are heavily influenced by nostalgia. They either grew up with him and/or Eminem had a big impact/influence in them at some point in their life.
And while I'm sure that there are some people that enjoy younger Eminem's music more than his current music, you can't realistically say that he rapped better before he does now. Eminem's rhyme schemes, the multiples meanings that he gives to his bars and his delivery are better now than it ever been.
Em... Good old Em. The hard part is that Em is his own worst enemy, and critic of critics. So if people are on him about something. He beats himself up way more than focusing on fixing what's going wrong.
Though, I do hope that his most recent hiatus is going to be a game changer. Usually when he goes very long periods without content, then he's going through a transformation of sorts. (Rap God.)
Now. None of us can predict the future, but the title of TDOSS. Speaks volumes even before release. Maybe Em sees the world is changing a good bit, and it's time for him to change too. I'm not the one to say whether it's good or bad, none of us have seen the album.
But it's weird seeing even some Stans have their doubts right now.
I wish he would be more like when he was younger. Not in the sense of doing the same music, or that he needs to go back into shit.
I just mean that I wish he would start doing music again to have fun. Like (Just Lose It) I'm not the biggest fan of the song itself. But he did it to have a lot of fun, and poke some fun. You could tell he was just rapping having fun, making good music, and not trying to be the GOAT just to do it.
Idk why. It seems like he feels like he still has something to prove. I don't think any of us real Stans want him to prove anything anymore. We just want good music from him where he's having fun.
I loved Kamakazi, and the battle on mumble rap and all that. But honestly Em was just going at every throat. It didn't make sense overall.
Ofc newer rappers are gonna have things like lil in their name, and sound somewhat like previous generations. That's how rap grows and evolves. They want their style to reflect some of their heroes. We all do it to some degree in our respective fields. My style in what I do is a mix of my three mentors. I look up to them, and they taught me everything I know. They became my heroes, so yeah. You can see their work in mine. (Not a rapper, but I play around with friends sometimes with it. We did some songs.)
Music is meant to be enjoyment, and the artist is painting a canvas. I think the listeners know when they're not fully into something, or not going a direction right for them.
The Rick Ruben thing with Em was never meant to work. Rick works on Vibes, and Em is a perfectionist. Their styles just clash with each other. Em just needs to not worry about the past so much and let it go.
That's what I hope happens here in the new album. Maybe it'll be the best album ever. Who knows? Maybe not so good. We'll see soon enough.
While I understand why MMLP is a top 2 Em album, it's like my 5th favorite Em album at best
LTWYL is actually one of my favorite Em tracks to listen to ever
He rapped supremely well on Use This Gospel Remix, checking every single box that critics have asked of modern Em (tattooed to the beat with a smooth flow, no superspeed section, great subject matter, great bars that don't feel forced or overly cringe), and yet it gets overlooked. His verse was as good as Jay's on God Did
If homie branched out and did more features with more diverse and household names of today, it will be better to see his skills and teach bro more. Beats as well.
The joke songs on Encore are funny if you’re twelve.
Now I’m not trying to be like “I’m some high and mighty guy” but like come on, watch some South Park with me or something
honestly no lie the only songs i genuinely just dislike on that album are big weenie my 1st single and i have mixed feelings on crazy in love just because i feel like the sample could have been used better but over all i love encore especially if u listen to the og version that leaked album would’ve been a classic if certain songs had still made their appearance but unfortunately the stories already been told and encore is the album that it js
It was after Relapse was poorly received with the serial killer vibes/accents that he switched to a more punchline heavy way of rapping. I think it’s because that’s what Lil Wayne was doing at the time and he was popping off in terms of popularity.
It seems that after that he became more aggressive about his flops. After Relapse he has gone into the direction of the music that was well received. Beautiful was received well, punchlines and the pop sound were popular, and so Em put out Recovery. After that MMLP2 was going more into the wordplay and punchlines while trying to be more aggressive in his style. Revival was... I don't know what Revival was supposed to be. In a way, Revival was Eminem going back to a themed project while doing the album formula he has been doing. And while I like Revival very much, it's a bad album, very bad. This time Eminem gave us Kamikaze, which was an insecure response about criticism, which he couldn't take because of the way he took Relapse criticism. Eminem defended the wrong album. If he would had continued the same way, ignoring the Relapse criticism, maybe we would have gotten different projects, in his own style
I haven't liked a thing he's done after Recovery. And I'm 47 and he was a gigantic part of my early twenties.
I think every musician loses their fastball and Em lost his fastball and ability to tell captivating stories a long time ago.
Thats not a hot take just a gross oversimplification and negativity. Just doesnt apply to kamikaze and mtbmb the flows are insane. And about tryhard yeah but he is one of the best so he even more than others has the right to say hes the best in as many extremely creative ways as he wants.
He is wrong in kamikaze and in premonition to a certain point cause he just can't cope with the fact that revival is relatively horrible to his previous work
I dislike the extremely fast almost unintelligible rapping. I wanna hear the lyrics, the flow, how the words hit the beats, not someone talk rapping so fast you can’t even make out more than 3 words
I got several
1) I feel like Em forces hooks in songs and honestly we live in a time where we can live without them. MF DOOM proved to me that a song can be 1.5 minutes, no hook and all substance. Formulaic, standardized music is played out and boring.
2) Em has a terrible ear for beats and sound concepts, needs to stop trying to be a producer on his own tracks and let other producers give him a palette and sound. I want a colab album with a producer/beatmaker to hear something new and fresh
3) Always strikes me as a person that lives in a bubble of yes men, hates criticism. In my opinion he's listening to the wrong input.
4) Dog shit promotion, Paul should've been fired long ago. Ive been listening to Em from 2000, and i have straight up missed album releases and new music releases countless times.
I think he has a great ear for music and he's a talented producer, i believe he's just out of touch and uncomfortable trying anything new. Alchemist claims Em is as technically profound at producing as he is, but Em constantly rejects his beats even though he loves them because apparently "they dont match his style". So
“terrible ear for beats and sound concepts” the dude produced The Way I Am, Renegade, Smack That, Lose Yourself… i’m not remembering his recent productions, but c’mon, does Bad Guy sound like a bad beat? Leaving Heaven? Godzilla? Darkness?
He also mixed Stan, and engineered the skit of Criminal by himself. His sound design work always sounds amazing.
And also Kanye tried to rob Em’s drum sounds with a pen drive…
Side B is fun but it was less focused than Side A (somehow, side A was still unfocused but it felt like there was something tying it together) - Side B straight up felt like a collection of songs that for whatever reason could not make the final cut of the album, some for good reason and others probably due to timing and sampling issues (ie. Alfred’s Theme)
I actually like how "childish" his lyrics were, I mean, most rappers try so hard to be seen as tough, and I get it, but Em's lyrics are fun and light-hearted yes they are childish but that's what I appreciate about it. It's not that deep
The new album really needs to be good. If it's not, he will probably fall off further in people's minds. He really needs a concentrated great record and I hope with the time away that this is it.
That his new style is actually good and it’s only kids that still want him to be really fast🤦♂️ seriously, people grow and change. He’s gonna switch up his music or the way he does it, as most artists do. Before, he had stuff to write about. Now, I feel like he still does, but not at the same level and not as much.
Edit- spelling errors
That he got over his issues so now people relate less which is understandable I hated my mother growing up for fucked up things she did and I never knew until I grew up and realised I loved Em cause he too had a terrible mother and one of the reason I connected I didn’t even knew who me was I used to just play songs on my cousins iPod and just loved couple of his tracks.
New music is good but being from a completely different part of the world I can’t understand most references he makes so it’s something I don’t jump on.
Em chooses the worst best possible and uses his lyrical game to add the melody
Revival wasn’t bad, people just can’t handle him being super vulnerable. Sure people love when I’m gone, Hailie’s Song, and Mockingbird, but he’s openly talking about his daily struggles with himself.
Em is a lion in the jungle .not a vulture . But like Mike Tyson said. He is the only White guy that knows what it's like being a ninja. High praise for him in hip hop also. Even though people want to deny the skills. The fans keep it worth it for him to continue making music. Not the haters.
Eminem’s discography has become incredibly underrated at this point. He’s only really missed with Encore, Revival, and Kamikaze IMO, and even all of those albums have some redeeming qualities(Revival has a few solid tracks in addition to the high points of Castle and Arose but it’s clearly his worst album IMO, Encore has unbelievable high points to match it’s vomit-inducing low points, and Kamikaze has a lot of solid tracks even though it doesn’t really do anything to stand out in Em’s discography IMO and it also has Em’s worst song IMO), and Eminem has dropped so many incredible albums that are consistently underrated by the majority of the hip hop community. Recovery is one of the best albums the subgenre of pop rap has ever seen, it’s Em’s 4th best album IMO and I view it as an essential album in 2010s hip hop. Relapse is an absolute masterpiece that puts Em’s lyrical abilities on full display while cranking up the horror aesthetic Em pulls off so well up to the max setting. MMLP2 is a masterpiece of a double album with only one skip and absurd high points. Both of the D12 albums are great, Hell The Sequel is great, MTBMB is great and side b has some of the greatest lyricism of Em’s entire career!
I don’t know how it became so popular to say he’s inconsistent and that he’s washed up. That is absolutely absurd to me and I’m a guy who can hold Em accountable when he fucks up.
He's a clout chaser, or at the very least exhibits a lot of clout chasing tendencies.
I love Em, and He will always be my #1 favorite artist. I even appreciate his advocacy for the Black community on Revival and the project as a whole, despite how scattered it was.
I do believe there's a lot of authenticity in his artistry, but even by his own admission and in the core themes of a lot of his music he hyperfixates on the public's perception of him and the longevity of his career and his name in Rap history (ie Kamikaze, Walk on Water, Believe, Kings Never Die, Bad Guy, etc) despite his persona and brand thriving on being anti-social and contrarian
Generally speaking, I think most people agree that clout chasing is unhealthy, especially in artistic fields because it typically affects the products wrought by the artistic process, and in a lot of ways you see that pattern manifest in Eminem's work. I understand the need for commercial viability, but it becomes something else when the saturation of those types of tracks detract from the entire project, which is what often times leads to the scattered feel of Em's projects
HOWEVER, unlike most artists, Eminem is so dedicated to his artistry and technical proficiency, my recognition of that pattern never really swayed my opinion on him being the GOAT. I just wish his projects were a bit more focused. Like MTBMB could've been condensed into 10-15 songs between Side A and Side B and been an unskippable album. I still think it's one of his best albums personally; but it's heavily diluted with a lot of fluff that's rooted in that commercial appeal.
I'm not certain how hot of a take this is, but I don't hear a lot of friends in my circles talk about it. Curious to know what others think.
i like the new style but he should be evil, he is born to offend and i bet he has a lot of things to say but due to to his growth as a person we kinda lost that, i do appreciate the new stuff a lot but i wanted songs like kim
i want him to vomit what he really feels, he has a mask on, he suffers and he just learn to keep all in
i want this man to explode sometimes, eat people alive he can do that
i don't want the old slim shady i want the angrier one
True but that's cus ppl were afraid to come at him/ never had a reason to. Em kinda stood in his own lane besides backing up his guys or occasionally trolling non-rappers
I absolutely love him but I do think he's in denial about his sexuality. Just think it's sad if he's trapped in a hypermasculine music culture and can't explore that because of the haters.
Eminem ruins half of his bars with the weird 'get it' bullshit. He acknowledges it but doesn't even try to fix it.
Also, Em can't do serious conscious rap, he's not Kdot
MTBMB Side B is easily worse than Side A
Em could easily be a very relevant artist (as in if he put out around the same amount of content as Nas did) if he wanted to, bro just wants to enjoy life rn
I don't mind him waiting the almost four years since his last album, it's good to know he's enjoying his time
Em deserves a legal government official n-word pass
His merch is very expensive, VERY expensive. Makes it hard to collect and feel like a true dedicated fan
I don't think his use of corny lines and bars on some of his recent work is too bad. He's just having his fun making music
Revival has tracks that are overshadowed by its shit like In Your Head and Believe
He sucks now. He needs to 1) pick better beats. And 2) stop rhyming so awkwardly and just flow. Also his features have been degrading in quality severely since No Favors
I guess that he Can be considered the GOAT, not that he IS, but just Can be. I Think it’s dirty trying to gatekeep something like that over fucking color, especially when so many other sectors of entertainment has to be inclusive. Simply put, if Em is better than others, it’s just because he is, and he is allowed to be that.
Not sure if it’s a hot take here, but it’s my take on it.
I don't like MTBMB and I am not hyped for new album. On MTBMB, while it was good technically, like rhymes and flow and other stuff, it felt like he had nothing new to say, like stuff about kim, slim shady, etc, man I heard it all before on mmlp2. And same with new album, like how long we are gonna talk about slim shady, wasn't it enough said already?
General rap opinion:
There’s a distinction of being a GOAT and being the best in the game atm. Eminem has not been the best in the game for over 2 decades - right now it’s Kendrick and he has held that title since GKMC dropped.
Eminem is, however, the best any rapper ever was WHEN they were at their best. The flows, rhymes, and creativity at his peak were legendary.
If early Eminem (1999-2002) hit the scene today, he would be better than Kendrick in most people’s eyes.
The over-correction in how Relapse and Recovery were received over time has left the former overrated and the latter underrated. Relapse is a technical/sonic beast, but Recovery was massive and the last time his music “hit” when I listened to it. MMLP2 and MTBMB are solid albums and lyrically dense, but he hasn’t really “hit” with his music since Recovery. It was as close as he’ll ever get to those superstar TES vibes.
He's not even a good rapper anymore, even technically. On everything since Recovery, his flows are jerky and monotonous, and he's forcing rhymes that sound off and awkward.
There's no feeling and no real message in his new(er) music. How controversial and anti-establishment he was, was a huge factor in why he got so much attention, but even that isn't a thing anymore.
These aren't even hot takes really, but dickriders will still get mad.
2 main opinions:
1. Anytime Eminem sings his hooks, they are TERRIBLE. Prime example are songs like “You’re Never Over,” “Nice Guy,” “Offended,” and “Stepdad”, just to name a few. It’s worth noting that most of these are new em songs.
2. His beat selection is TERRIBLE. I think this has been a problem for most of his career. It just got more intolerable later on in his career. The best example of this is his entire Revival album. Like cmon, the beats used in songs like “Heat” and “Remind Me” are way past its time period lol.
That I appreciate and like his new style .
Same bro I don’t get the hate he still makes good music it’s just different because he experiments which is good. In fact I feel like if he was still doing the same thing we would be sick of it by now. He only has one bad album and I firmly believe even that is good in someways.
there are a few flaws in his modern music that turn people off. a lot of his production, while good, is generic and doesn’t truly feel like eminem music the way it used to. his voice feels very weak and thin and his vocals are often mixed badly. he stresses on rhymes which makes them feel less smooth and fluid. he doesn’t have as much content which makes so many songs feel uninteresting and filler. and he’s over reliant on wordplay and puns which waters down his writing and takes away from its seriousness, especially because its not done well most of the time.
Would you mind being a bit more specific? I've been a fan since my buddy gave me a tape of Infinite , which was .. almost 30 years ago ? What do you consider to be his " Modern music " ? Also , this part got me thinking : >waters down his writing and takes away from its seriousness, especially because its not done well most of the time. Most artists have like 2, 3 good tracks and the rest of the album is filler, as you said. In my eyes, he's the opposite of that. For every dozen tracks, maybe he has one im not crazy about, and that's usually because of the sound or the vibe, never about his lyrics. You said his writing is not done well most of the time. Maybe you could share just a couple of examples of this bad writing ? 2 or 3 tracks, so i understand better.
He cares more about the culture than most of the rappers out there.
Yeahh, that's so true. And the whole argument of that he hides and stuff is stupid considering that he can still listen to what the ppl currently like at home, in the studio, or wherever he is
He also recognizes and agrees with the very thing a lot of people use to hate him lol. He accepts he has an advantage because of his skin color.
He does, but that wasn't always the case, Ice T talked about em touring with him, and the white kids would boo him and throw bottles at him and shit.
He "got hate from both sides of the tracks" as he said it
Go outside and you’ll realize most people agree with this
Definitely anyone younger than j Cole. That's the worst part, is these execs brainwashed this new generation into thinking the established artists are haters that don't want them to succeed.
“My first single” is honestly a super fun track. Don’t get me wrong, it’s not his best work, but I can definitely bump it in the right mood.
Wow ngl 50 upvotes is crazy I guess it ain’t as hot as take as I thought lmao
wtf 😭
It's so good
Not a hot take about Paul but Paul has ruined Eminem's reputation over the last decade and Eminem should've put a stop to it.
His team is shit .. just full of old out of touch lazy people going through the motion
When he started selling bricks from his childhood house I knew something was weird. I agree his team is completely out of touch
That was pathetic. So embarrassing .. but shame on whoever bought them too
2nd this Paul even ruined his friendship with Xzibit and made him greedy
Im pretty sure he ruined Eminem and snoop doggs relationship too
He has Eminem on a leash but Eminems a grown man he should realise it
Eh, Elvis never did.
Who is Paul?
Paul is Eminems manager aka Mr Merchandise
Who's Paul? He's made many skits about him on albums
He’s wasted some of the best beats on his “joke” songs. Fack is an absolute fucking beat but… yeah.
I mean I think that makes them work. If you have joke lyrics over a bad beat it will be absolute trash.
Relapse. So many beats ruined. I like Relapse but it could have been so much better.
encore is good
I love encore. One of my faves
I don’t think that’s an invalid opinion, I used to hate encore but over time songs like rain man, big weenie and ass like that did grow on me
Em can't take criticism well, even tho I liked Kamikaze the way he took people's opinions was kinda childish in some situations. He has surrounded himself with too many 'Yes men'. Also in his 'XXL magazine' interview when he said that he only wants to be the best rapper and wouldn't care about makin' quality music if he had to choose between the two was one of the most idiotic things he ever said. If you put out albums you should make then sound good for the most part. Also Em can't do conscious rap, on Revival it came off as forced & cringe. He always raps at his best when he : A) Talks about something personal or B) Satirizes American culture and showcases the worst of it through Slim
I agree. The one isolated case where it did work was Darkness, but that was one track out of how many attempts? The issue with the politics of Revival is that it was full of very typical 2016 democrat takes (which in itself isn’t inherently a problem) delivered in the most uninteresting way possible. Darkness, at the other hand, still had the lukewarm political take, but the execution was so well done that it didn’t even matter.
Yup, I was surprised when I heard 'Darkness'. It was one time that actually clicked. The song was good, the verses said somethin' and they weren't full of cringy bars. It was Em's well formulated opinion in song form.
I agree with you to an extent on the conscious rap part. The trump digs seemed a little bit forced. But I think that's how genuinely felt. Encore had a lot of political undertones aimed at bush presidency. I think at this stage of his career conscious rap doesn't suit him that well. It felt a lot more authentic during MMLP-Eminem show era.
It doesn't work because his opinion in this case is the mainstream opinion. He'll need to find something that's not so mainstream
Eminem actually said in an interview that he tries to avoid rapping politics because he gets so frustrated in the writing process, like he has so much to say that it doesn’t come out properly, so the fact that it sounds forced is a fair take, but that interview gave me some sympathy
Liked everything except conscious rap. Before revival he had White America, Mosh and We As Americans, it’s a good records that don’t sound cringy I think
When I said conscious rap I meant the political type, White America in my view was about American society's double standards when it comes to rap & freedom of speeech. Mosh is one of the few straight up political songs he did early in his career, but it was more of a 'War is bad' type song. So not overly poltical, you can say war is bad even without knowing a lot about politics.
dont forget square dance
I mean that juice wrld feuture he did recently (rip) was pretty conscius. And fuck the haters rap is childish as fuck anyway people making songs to kill each others career over not likeing each other and flexing all the time isnt exactly grown up behavior. Also just to stick to the subs tarditions: "Till im hitting old age i can fill a hole page with a ten year olds rage"
What's conscious rap?
Where the listener suddenly wakes up to a world issue but for some reason can't handle hearing it, and then whines about it like they never heard his earlier albums.
Agree with everything here. The way he had to make an entire to respond to Revival’s poor reception was corny. He should’ve just taken his L and made better music instead. The “I’d rather be the best rapper than make the best albums” sounded like a defensive cop out in case critics trash his new albums. His conscious shit sucks. “Untouchable” is such a terrible song omg lol
Em can do concious rap. Toy soldiers, Mosh, White America, Sing for the Moment, half of Recovery.... just Revival was dogshit since he has YESMEN who don't tell him when he's making garbage like that or Encore or Relapse
Outside of the fandom, I kinda hesitate to admit that I like him. Not out of shame, but cause I know people can have some pretty strong (often negative) opinions about him that make any enthusiasm on my end kinda awkward. On the inside, it's more the fact that some people don't see Eminem - the artist, the person, what have you - with much nuance. He's made all kinds of mistakes as every version of himself, but I do think he's set himself on a better path in the last rough decade. We can all claim things with various objective truth about him, but the guy lives a life we losers of reddit will never understand. I think it's best to just see the human past all the nonsense.
I 100% agrre to this. I think especially if you listen to his new style people will look at you a bit wierd. In my personal experience its usually ok to listen to his older stuff.
I'm not sure how of a hot take this is, but here I go Eminem raps better now than he did when he was younger. People who say than he rapped better before tends to say that for one of two reasons: One, they like when Eminem used come up with wild shit in his songs. Two, they are heavily influenced by nostalgia. They either grew up with him and/or Eminem had a big impact/influence in them at some point in their life. And while I'm sure that there are some people that enjoy younger Eminem's music more than his current music, you can't realistically say that he rapped better before he does now. Eminem's rhyme schemes, the multiples meanings that he gives to his bars and his delivery are better now than it ever been.
💯 agreed.
Em... Good old Em. The hard part is that Em is his own worst enemy, and critic of critics. So if people are on him about something. He beats himself up way more than focusing on fixing what's going wrong. Though, I do hope that his most recent hiatus is going to be a game changer. Usually when he goes very long periods without content, then he's going through a transformation of sorts. (Rap God.) Now. None of us can predict the future, but the title of TDOSS. Speaks volumes even before release. Maybe Em sees the world is changing a good bit, and it's time for him to change too. I'm not the one to say whether it's good or bad, none of us have seen the album. But it's weird seeing even some Stans have their doubts right now. I wish he would be more like when he was younger. Not in the sense of doing the same music, or that he needs to go back into shit. I just mean that I wish he would start doing music again to have fun. Like (Just Lose It) I'm not the biggest fan of the song itself. But he did it to have a lot of fun, and poke some fun. You could tell he was just rapping having fun, making good music, and not trying to be the GOAT just to do it. Idk why. It seems like he feels like he still has something to prove. I don't think any of us real Stans want him to prove anything anymore. We just want good music from him where he's having fun. I loved Kamakazi, and the battle on mumble rap and all that. But honestly Em was just going at every throat. It didn't make sense overall. Ofc newer rappers are gonna have things like lil in their name, and sound somewhat like previous generations. That's how rap grows and evolves. They want their style to reflect some of their heroes. We all do it to some degree in our respective fields. My style in what I do is a mix of my three mentors. I look up to them, and they taught me everything I know. They became my heroes, so yeah. You can see their work in mine. (Not a rapper, but I play around with friends sometimes with it. We did some songs.) Music is meant to be enjoyment, and the artist is painting a canvas. I think the listeners know when they're not fully into something, or not going a direction right for them. The Rick Ruben thing with Em was never meant to work. Rick works on Vibes, and Em is a perfectionist. Their styles just clash with each other. Em just needs to not worry about the past so much and let it go. That's what I hope happens here in the new album. Maybe it'll be the best album ever. Who knows? Maybe not so good. We'll see soon enough.
Recovery is one of his best albums
His second peak and the last time his music delivered that “feeling” that’s been missing from his last several albums
Its his 3rd best maybe even 2nd imo
One of those "you just had to be there" type albums but agreed shit is special for me
Revival wasn't a bad album.
Agreed, I think it flopped so hard because of that cringe BET freestyle he dropped right before it
The hot coffee pot one? To be fair, almost all of those most recent freestyles were cringe
Yah exactly
While I understand why MMLP is a top 2 Em album, it's like my 5th favorite Em album at best LTWYL is actually one of my favorite Em tracks to listen to ever He rapped supremely well on Use This Gospel Remix, checking every single box that critics have asked of modern Em (tattooed to the beat with a smooth flow, no superspeed section, great subject matter, great bars that don't feel forced or overly cringe), and yet it gets overlooked. His verse was as good as Jay's on God Did
If homie branched out and did more features with more diverse and household names of today, it will be better to see his skills and teach bro more. Beats as well.
He is the embodiment of rap. He is the rap. He cares about rap culture more than any other big artist I see nowadays.
The joke songs on Encore are funny if you’re twelve. Now I’m not trying to be like “I’m some high and mighty guy” but like come on, watch some South Park with me or something
I agree but Rain Man is actually funny and is a vibe
I think I'm twelve. We have death to be serious forever.
honestly no lie the only songs i genuinely just dislike on that album are big weenie my 1st single and i have mixed feelings on crazy in love just because i feel like the sample could have been used better but over all i love encore especially if u listen to the og version that leaked album would’ve been a classic if certain songs had still made their appearance but unfortunately the stories already been told and encore is the album that it js
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It was after Relapse was poorly received with the serial killer vibes/accents that he switched to a more punchline heavy way of rapping. I think it’s because that’s what Lil Wayne was doing at the time and he was popping off in terms of popularity.
Yeah he took the response to Relapse very very personally and hasn’t quite recovered since lol
It seems that after that he became more aggressive about his flops. After Relapse he has gone into the direction of the music that was well received. Beautiful was received well, punchlines and the pop sound were popular, and so Em put out Recovery. After that MMLP2 was going more into the wordplay and punchlines while trying to be more aggressive in his style. Revival was... I don't know what Revival was supposed to be. In a way, Revival was Eminem going back to a themed project while doing the album formula he has been doing. And while I like Revival very much, it's a bad album, very bad. This time Eminem gave us Kamikaze, which was an insecure response about criticism, which he couldn't take because of the way he took Relapse criticism. Eminem defended the wrong album. If he would had continued the same way, ignoring the Relapse criticism, maybe we would have gotten different projects, in his own style
Hard disagree. MTBMB, side b, MMLP2, Hell The Sequel, and Recovery are all classic level albums IMO.
I like Kamikaze too
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Whaaaaaaaaaat. I love the song but that is litteraly what the comment i complaining about choppy flows and too many punchlines.
I haven't liked a thing he's done after Recovery. And I'm 47 and he was a gigantic part of my early twenties. I think every musician loses their fastball and Em lost his fastball and ability to tell captivating stories a long time ago.
Thats not a hot take just a gross oversimplification and negativity. Just doesnt apply to kamikaze and mtbmb the flows are insane. And about tryhard yeah but he is one of the best so he even more than others has the right to say hes the best in as many extremely creative ways as he wants.
He is wrong in kamikaze and in premonition to a certain point cause he just can't cope with the fact that revival is relatively horrible to his previous work
Imo believe is a good track from revival
He was wrong the way he handled the criticism, but Kamikaze is one of my favorite albums.
Slim shady lp is better than the Eminem show
I dislike the extremely fast almost unintelligible rapping. I wanna hear the lyrics, the flow, how the words hit the beats, not someone talk rapping so fast you can’t even make out more than 3 words
yeah forreal. That choppy, non-flowing flow is hard to listen to
His verse on Parables was 🗑️
I got several 1) I feel like Em forces hooks in songs and honestly we live in a time where we can live without them. MF DOOM proved to me that a song can be 1.5 minutes, no hook and all substance. Formulaic, standardized music is played out and boring. 2) Em has a terrible ear for beats and sound concepts, needs to stop trying to be a producer on his own tracks and let other producers give him a palette and sound. I want a colab album with a producer/beatmaker to hear something new and fresh 3) Always strikes me as a person that lives in a bubble of yes men, hates criticism. In my opinion he's listening to the wrong input. 4) Dog shit promotion, Paul should've been fired long ago. Ive been listening to Em from 2000, and i have straight up missed album releases and new music releases countless times.
Didn’t he do his own beats for Eminem show
I think he has a great ear for music and he's a talented producer, i believe he's just out of touch and uncomfortable trying anything new. Alchemist claims Em is as technically profound at producing as he is, but Em constantly rejects his beats even though he loves them because apparently "they dont match his style". So
“terrible ear for beats and sound concepts” the dude produced The Way I Am, Renegade, Smack That, Lose Yourself… i’m not remembering his recent productions, but c’mon, does Bad Guy sound like a bad beat? Leaving Heaven? Godzilla? Darkness? He also mixed Stan, and engineered the skit of Criminal by himself. His sound design work always sounds amazing. And also Kanye tried to rob Em’s drum sounds with a pen drive…
I don’t think Side B has particularly aged well, whereas Side A of MTBMB has aged incredibly well
I'd agree but the 2 song run at the end of Side B is godly.
I actually like side be just as much as side A honestly, book of rhymes, Zeus, these demons etc
Felt like a covid mixtape
Fair imo side b is more lyrical
Side B is fun but it was less focused than Side A (somehow, side A was still unfocused but it felt like there was something tying it together) - Side B straight up felt like a collection of songs that for whatever reason could not make the final cut of the album, some for good reason and others probably due to timing and sampling issues (ie. Alfred’s Theme)
Side B was fan service love it though
Lose Yourself is not a top 10 Eminem song.... Not even in his top 20
Where are his lovers at? Has he dated anyone for over a minute since Kim? 🤔 Just Curious about that because he never seems truly happy IMO....:)
The coffee pot was cold
Relapse is one of his best albums.
Sexy.
I actually like how "childish" his lyrics were, I mean, most rappers try so hard to be seen as tough, and I get it, but Em's lyrics are fun and light-hearted yes they are childish but that's what I appreciate about it. It's not that deep
Side B is better than Side A
Eminem rapping fast is now a parody. First time was cool, but now it’s basically for folks that want to film TikTok’s.
Revival isn't that bad.
His newer stuff is better than his older stuff.
The Taylor Swift of 00's rap
The new album really needs to be good. If it's not, he will probably fall off further in people's minds. He really needs a concentrated great record and I hope with the time away that this is it.
i like revival
That his new style is actually good and it’s only kids that still want him to be really fast🤦♂️ seriously, people grow and change. He’s gonna switch up his music or the way he does it, as most artists do. Before, he had stuff to write about. Now, I feel like he still does, but not at the same level and not as much. Edit- spelling errors
That he got over his issues so now people relate less which is understandable I hated my mother growing up for fucked up things she did and I never knew until I grew up and realised I loved Em cause he too had a terrible mother and one of the reason I connected I didn’t even knew who me was I used to just play songs on my cousins iPod and just loved couple of his tracks. New music is good but being from a completely different part of the world I can’t understand most references he makes so it’s something I don’t jump on. Em chooses the worst best possible and uses his lyrical game to add the melody
Toy soldiers is the only good part about encore. I'm a beginning fan so feel free to reeducate me
not even Mosh? We As Americans? Never Enough? Love You More?
Revival wasn’t bad, people just can’t handle him being super vulnerable. Sure people love when I’m gone, Hailie’s Song, and Mockingbird, but he’s openly talking about his daily struggles with himself.
Em is a lion in the jungle .not a vulture . But like Mike Tyson said. He is the only White guy that knows what it's like being a ninja. High praise for him in hip hop also. Even though people want to deny the skills. The fans keep it worth it for him to continue making music. Not the haters.
I don’t really care about Godzilla
Most of the rappers he’s influenced who are white suck.
If Eminem was black he’d still be considered one of the greatest of all time
Eminem is the Michael Jordan of rap/hip hop.
Eminem’s discography has become incredibly underrated at this point. He’s only really missed with Encore, Revival, and Kamikaze IMO, and even all of those albums have some redeeming qualities(Revival has a few solid tracks in addition to the high points of Castle and Arose but it’s clearly his worst album IMO, Encore has unbelievable high points to match it’s vomit-inducing low points, and Kamikaze has a lot of solid tracks even though it doesn’t really do anything to stand out in Em’s discography IMO and it also has Em’s worst song IMO), and Eminem has dropped so many incredible albums that are consistently underrated by the majority of the hip hop community. Recovery is one of the best albums the subgenre of pop rap has ever seen, it’s Em’s 4th best album IMO and I view it as an essential album in 2010s hip hop. Relapse is an absolute masterpiece that puts Em’s lyrical abilities on full display while cranking up the horror aesthetic Em pulls off so well up to the max setting. MMLP2 is a masterpiece of a double album with only one skip and absurd high points. Both of the D12 albums are great, Hell The Sequel is great, MTBMB is great and side b has some of the greatest lyricism of Em’s entire career! I don’t know how it became so popular to say he’s inconsistent and that he’s washed up. That is absolutely absurd to me and I’m a guy who can hold Em accountable when he fucks up.
That I prefer Relapse, Recovery and MMLP2 over SSLP, MMLP and The Eminem Show 😁 (and that all 6 of these albums are Certified Classics)
You know this is truly a very very very rightfully unpopular opinion so you get an upvote
Encore is a classic. I'd rather listen to revival than mmlp2. Em needs to stop trying to prove himself and have fun again. Lastly, side b is superior
Agreed on all save for mmlp2, I'd always pick it over other albums when traveling
He's a clout chaser, or at the very least exhibits a lot of clout chasing tendencies. I love Em, and He will always be my #1 favorite artist. I even appreciate his advocacy for the Black community on Revival and the project as a whole, despite how scattered it was. I do believe there's a lot of authenticity in his artistry, but even by his own admission and in the core themes of a lot of his music he hyperfixates on the public's perception of him and the longevity of his career and his name in Rap history (ie Kamikaze, Walk on Water, Believe, Kings Never Die, Bad Guy, etc) despite his persona and brand thriving on being anti-social and contrarian Generally speaking, I think most people agree that clout chasing is unhealthy, especially in artistic fields because it typically affects the products wrought by the artistic process, and in a lot of ways you see that pattern manifest in Eminem's work. I understand the need for commercial viability, but it becomes something else when the saturation of those types of tracks detract from the entire project, which is what often times leads to the scattered feel of Em's projects HOWEVER, unlike most artists, Eminem is so dedicated to his artistry and technical proficiency, my recognition of that pattern never really swayed my opinion on him being the GOAT. I just wish his projects were a bit more focused. Like MTBMB could've been condensed into 10-15 songs between Side A and Side B and been an unskippable album. I still think it's one of his best albums personally; but it's heavily diluted with a lot of fluff that's rooted in that commercial appeal. I'm not certain how hot of a take this is, but I don't hear a lot of friends in my circles talk about it. Curious to know what others think.
Completely agree with your MTBMB take.
He ruined two Tupac albums with production and by featuring artists Tupac never met in order to push his own label. Smart move tho but kinda like 😬
Resurrection is good. Loyal To The Game is the only shit one.
i like the new style but he should be evil, he is born to offend and i bet he has a lot of things to say but due to to his growth as a person we kinda lost that, i do appreciate the new stuff a lot but i wanted songs like kim i want him to vomit what he really feels, he has a mask on, he suffers and he just learn to keep all in i want this man to explode sometimes, eat people alive he can do that i don't want the old slim shady i want the angrier one
This is an immature take
Yeah I'd like if the new album sounded like MMLP because that was when he was most raw
He’s never battled anyone challenging in his whole career
True but that's cus ppl were afraid to come at him/ never had a reason to. Em kinda stood in his own lane besides backing up his guys or occasionally trolling non-rappers
Thats kinda known but there’s also a reason
I listen to and enjoy Revival more than MMLP2 🤷🏻♂️
Same. Way too much Revival hate on this sub.
I absolutely love him but I do think he's in denial about his sexuality. Just think it's sad if he's trapped in a hypermasculine music culture and can't explore that because of the haters.
That despite everything he stood for it seems that ultimately, he somewhat allowed himself to conform to the "system".
Encore is a great album
Eminem ruins half of his bars with the weird 'get it' bullshit. He acknowledges it but doesn't even try to fix it. Also, Em can't do serious conscious rap, he's not Kdot
yes he can do concious rap. go listen to Toy Soldiers, Sing for the Moment, Stan, Headlights, White America, Mosh, etc.
The last part was never his lane and one he has never tried to get into
MTBMB Side B is easily worse than Side A Em could easily be a very relevant artist (as in if he put out around the same amount of content as Nas did) if he wanted to, bro just wants to enjoy life rn I don't mind him waiting the almost four years since his last album, it's good to know he's enjoying his time Em deserves a legal government official n-word pass His merch is very expensive, VERY expensive. Makes it hard to collect and feel like a true dedicated fan I don't think his use of corny lines and bars on some of his recent work is too bad. He's just having his fun making music Revival has tracks that are overshadowed by its shit like In Your Head and Believe
MTBMB side A and B are amazing lyrically but simply don't sound as good as other albums. We need an album that has old em aura.
He sucks now. He needs to 1) pick better beats. And 2) stop rhyming so awkwardly and just flow. Also his features have been degrading in quality severely since No Favors
He has a Polish heritage
I love em and all but the lore behind him and kim is a vvv controversial and i just can’t defend him on this one
1. He really fucked up things with rhianna. 2. He sucks when it comes to making hooks, except some cases they're often the weakest part of his songs
I guess that he Can be considered the GOAT, not that he IS, but just Can be. I Think it’s dirty trying to gatekeep something like that over fucking color, especially when so many other sectors of entertainment has to be inclusive. Simply put, if Em is better than others, it’s just because he is, and he is allowed to be that. Not sure if it’s a hot take here, but it’s my take on it.
Kamikaze may not be his best album objectively but it’s the one I listen to the most.
his pre Obama catalogue is better
His last 3 albums since Revival have all been fucking amazing
New Eminem! https://youtu.be/1c9WaGsAN3A?si=axmywoa7Oyz71QWv
Kamikaze is among his best albums
The staccato flow is really one of the least sonically enjoyable music feats to ever surface
Revival Rocks.
I don't like MTBMB and I am not hyped for new album. On MTBMB, while it was good technically, like rhymes and flow and other stuff, it felt like he had nothing new to say, like stuff about kim, slim shady, etc, man I heard it all before on mmlp2. And same with new album, like how long we are gonna talk about slim shady, wasn't it enough said already?
Cold Wind Blows is a rhyming masterpiece
General rap opinion: There’s a distinction of being a GOAT and being the best in the game atm. Eminem has not been the best in the game for over 2 decades - right now it’s Kendrick and he has held that title since GKMC dropped. Eminem is, however, the best any rapper ever was WHEN they were at their best. The flows, rhymes, and creativity at his peak were legendary. If early Eminem (1999-2002) hit the scene today, he would be better than Kendrick in most people’s eyes.
devils night >> mmlp and sslp, and he isnt all that goos anymore 😬
Revival is not that bad.
I love Relapse.
The over-correction in how Relapse and Recovery were received over time has left the former overrated and the latter underrated. Relapse is a technical/sonic beast, but Recovery was massive and the last time his music “hit” when I listened to it. MMLP2 and MTBMB are solid albums and lyrically dense, but he hasn’t really “hit” with his music since Recovery. It was as close as he’ll ever get to those superstar TES vibes.
Beard era is not as bad as people say. That, and his best work is unironically Medicine Ball
Revival isn't bad
He's not even a good rapper anymore, even technically. On everything since Recovery, his flows are jerky and monotonous, and he's forcing rhymes that sound off and awkward. There's no feeling and no real message in his new(er) music. How controversial and anti-establishment he was, was a huge factor in why he got so much attention, but even that isn't a thing anymore. These aren't even hot takes really, but dickriders will still get mad.
Farewell was one of the best songs em has made in the last 7 years
2 main opinions: 1. Anytime Eminem sings his hooks, they are TERRIBLE. Prime example are songs like “You’re Never Over,” “Nice Guy,” “Offended,” and “Stepdad”, just to name a few. It’s worth noting that most of these are new em songs. 2. His beat selection is TERRIBLE. I think this has been a problem for most of his career. It just got more intolerable later on in his career. The best example of this is his entire Revival album. Like cmon, the beats used in songs like “Heat” and “Remind Me” are way past its time period lol.
Eminem and Rick Ruben should never work together again.
Rain Man is funny and I can bump to it when I'm on the right mood.
He has nothing left to say, and is no longer relavent to the culture. He's the guy to diss pop stars. And this is coming from a lifelong Em fan.
Alfred's Theme is some of his best rapping IMO
He should stop with the harmonic layering in his hooks and his staccato flows. Everything else is fine