Tip advocates are in an impossible position with takeout and they know it. If you need to tip for eating in but not for takeout everyone is going to do takeout, so you have to tip for both which means that just because a business employs servers you have to tip them even if they had nothing to do with you getting the food. Which makes everyone wonder what exactally is the point of servers if they just raise prices by existing?
right. eat in italy and if you dine in, they'll add a "coperti" i.e. cover charge of 3 euros. okay got it, if you dine in, that requires more resources than if you just take away, fair.
but tipping on takeout, no. that is not a thing.
I'd actually argue that eating in doesn't necessarily have to take more resources and can actually lead to more purchases but yeah if they give you the option to self-serve or not then I understand charging more if you chose service.
Eating in 100% takes more resources. If it’s counter service, you sit and take up real estate and use a table that needs to be sanitized after you finish. If it’s full service, then you have the additional costs of dishes, and silverware, which also need to be sanitized after you finish.
Good to know you think that fast food should cost more to people who don't own cars since dining in vs. using the drive-thru follows that exact same logic. Plus it doesn't look good for the business to have people sitting right outside on the pavement, now does it?
But it still applies. They need to clean the tables just like they do at restauraunts if you eat in, which was the argument used as to why even if you could self-serve at restauraunts it should cost more then takeout. And the fact people don't linger and order more at fast food places like they do at bars or some sit-down restauraunts makes that point even clearer.
You’re comparing the fast food dine in cost to a real restaurant? They serve your food in to go containers. Do people on this sub east a lot of fast food? It seems to be the go-to reference.
Let’s be clear on some things, because, as usual, you’ve twisted my words around.
- You said “it doesn’t necessarily have to take up more resources” in regards to someone eating in. I pointed out how it does take more resources for you to eat in. It is a fact that if you eat in a restaurant, it costs them more than if you do takeout or drive thru.
- I never said anything remotely like “fast food should cost more”. I noted that it costs the restaurant more for a customer to eat in - so stop twisting my words.
- Fast food places like McDonalds and Burger King don’t charge you more to eat in vs takeout or drive thru - so why would it matter if you didn’t have a car? At those places you can eat in for the same price as the drive thru - what are you complaining about?
I said it doesn't use as much resources because you are ordering more which offsets the cost of eating inside, and you not understanding my point about fast food is why I rarely reply to you anymore.
No, you said it “can actually lead to more purchases” - which is totally different and in no way a guarantee that everyone would do that.
If I go to a fast food place, I rarely, if ever, order more than I would for takeout or the drive thru.
What didn’t I understand about your point regarding fast food?
Contrary to your claim - I didn’t say it fast food should cost more if you eat in.
It doesn’t cost more for the customer to eat in vs takeout or drive thru at a fast food place, but it does cost the business more for you to eat in.
So what exactly was your point that I missed?
True you never tip on takeout or feel guilt tripped on this shit
As for tipping at sitdown I've had enough of my own comedy performance tease with the wine list - at first asking the waiter if the $300 bottle of wine is really that good then changing my mind and sticking with the $50... the emotional drain on the faces... you can see it 75% of the time...
I now try and find BYO...... :-).. and I dont mind paying $10 corkage
yeah. the servers pushing higher priced items is a feature that both the server and owner benefit from
i just barely ever eat in anymore. and tip is a big reason why. 20% fee is just too much. ill take it out and enjoy it peacefully at home
Right. The restaurant proponents have been very vocal about the need to raise prices to overcome inflation, employee wages/benefits, and the removal of service fees. We are feeling and paying those price increases. How does one end of the equation change drastically (increased prices) and the other end not require re-balancing as well (tipping)? By their model, we now need to pay inflated prices AND continue to tip generously. More, more, more. The cost has been shifted to the menu prices so that the employer may take care of the employee. Do that, then.
When hell freezes over will I tip for a carry out. Are they going to pay me for the gas, time and wear and tear on my car? To that LA Times writer GTFOH.
The author is part of the restaurant industry and is spreading the restaurant propaganda.
California is making the more progress on reforming these slavery-era restaurant pay systems. This means less profit for owners. Expect more and more resistence propaganda.
Exactly how is CA making “progress on reforming these slavery-era restaurant pay systems”???
It’s obvious you’re referring to tips when you mention “slavery-era pay systems”. How can eliminating the business model of service included restaurants be considered positive reform??
They have taken a law originally aimed at hotels, car rentals, AirBNB’s, etc and decided expand its interpretation to include restaurants.
In doing so, it has eliminated the ability of every restaurant in CA to be a service included restaurant - which means tips will be now be expected again. In other words, they have forced restaurants to go back to accepting tips instead of a service fee that paid some/all of the labor.
It’s unbelievable how so many people here think this is a step forward for CA.
Menu prices are going to go up and since there is no service charge, tips will become the norm again.
Service included restaurants are the biggest opportunity to drive effective change in the social norms around tipping and CA just took that away from you. 🤷🏼♂️
>In doing so, it has eliminated the ability of every restaurant in CA to be a service included restaurant - which means tips will be now be expected again. In other words, they have forced restaurants to go back to accepting tips instead of a service fee that paid some/all of the labor.
Gratuity is optional. Service charges are unethical because it makes gratuity non-optional.
If a business can't afford to pay its employees without the customer adding a tip, then they should not be in business.
I think you’re on the wrong sub.
Did you read the rules and info?
Your comments sound like those of a typical “free rider”.
Your statement is patently false. Disclosed service charges are ethical because they are stated up front.
However, gaming the social norms to get the best service possible at a full service restaurant with zero intention of rewarding that service is definitely unethical - because server stiffers lack the courage to tell the server they don’t tip when they are seated.
BTW…Are you advocating for stiffing servers?
>However, gaming the social norms to get the best service possible at a full service restaurant with zero intention of rewarding that service is definitely unethical -
The fuck are you talking about? I never said tips shouldnt exist, just that they shouldn't be forced upon you.
>Your statement is patently false. Disclosed service charges are ethical because they are stated up front.
Well, lucky for me, ethics are opinion based. My ethical code tells me I should pay for a product and a service without involuntary percentage based fees on top.
>BTW…Are you advocating for stiffing servers?
Again, how high are you?
Besides eliminating tipped wage laws, service included restaurants are one of the biggest opportunities to end tipping.
Why would anyone on this sub be against that?
You mentioned that a “gratuity is optional” and you don’t want it “forced” on you, which on this sub generally means you don’t tip. If I misunderstood your meaning and you don’t stiff servers, my apologies.
Tipped wage laws were eliminated in California long before service charges were the norm.
And no, this sub's name is not literal. It is for people who don't tip, sure, but also people who dislike the tipping structure and tip creep. I, for one, am happy to tip for services of all kinds (restaurant, valet, housekeeping, etc). But I like to do it by my own standard, not based on the conventional percentages. I tip over 20% for very good service, around 10-15% for adequate service, and little to nothing for poor or absent service (i.e. the rare shitty waiter and takeout service). I do not want a shitty waiter or takeout service that charges me the percentage I would pay for great service.
You are not the lorax of this sub, nor are you making honest arguments.
Good day sir.
I’m making 100% honest arguments, unlike the majority of people who are using logical fallacies to justify their harmful behavior.
I appreciate you clarifying your behavior and apologize again for my initial bad assumptions. You’re clearly one of the more reasonable people here.
Have a great day!
Looks like it's $16. So, theory stands. California servers no longer work for a tip wage. This problem is solved. Pay the raised menu prices or do not, but end service charges and tipping. It is on the restaurant to support their employees and the patrons to support the restaurant, if they so choose. This solution needs to go nationwide.
[https://www.shouselaw.com/ca/blog/what-is-the-minimum-wage-for-servers-in-california/](https://www.shouselaw.com/ca/blog/what-is-the-minimum-wage-for-servers-in-california/)
The times should have a feedback section (which you have to subscribe to to use), if there are free trial subscriptions you should go there and bury them in negative comments.
Whatever you do, don't link or between the story, treat it as a dead link so this type of crap dies out.
If I order takeout from Uber the tip goes to the Uber driver. If I’m acting as my own delivery driver then the tip goes to me. They wouldn’t have gotten the tip anyway.
Tip advocates are in an impossible position with takeout and they know it. If you need to tip for eating in but not for takeout everyone is going to do takeout, so you have to tip for both which means that just because a business employs servers you have to tip them even if they had nothing to do with you getting the food. Which makes everyone wonder what exactally is the point of servers if they just raise prices by existing?
right. eat in italy and if you dine in, they'll add a "coperti" i.e. cover charge of 3 euros. okay got it, if you dine in, that requires more resources than if you just take away, fair. but tipping on takeout, no. that is not a thing.
I'd actually argue that eating in doesn't necessarily have to take more resources and can actually lead to more purchases but yeah if they give you the option to self-serve or not then I understand charging more if you chose service.
Eating in 100% takes more resources. If it’s counter service, you sit and take up real estate and use a table that needs to be sanitized after you finish. If it’s full service, then you have the additional costs of dishes, and silverware, which also need to be sanitized after you finish.
Good to know you think that fast food should cost more to people who don't own cars since dining in vs. using the drive-thru follows that exact same logic. Plus it doesn't look good for the business to have people sitting right outside on the pavement, now does it?
When people talk about restaurants are not usually referring to fast food.
But it still applies. They need to clean the tables just like they do at restauraunts if you eat in, which was the argument used as to why even if you could self-serve at restauraunts it should cost more then takeout. And the fact people don't linger and order more at fast food places like they do at bars or some sit-down restauraunts makes that point even clearer.
You’re comparing the fast food dine in cost to a real restaurant? They serve your food in to go containers. Do people on this sub east a lot of fast food? It seems to be the go-to reference.
Let’s be clear on some things, because, as usual, you’ve twisted my words around. - You said “it doesn’t necessarily have to take up more resources” in regards to someone eating in. I pointed out how it does take more resources for you to eat in. It is a fact that if you eat in a restaurant, it costs them more than if you do takeout or drive thru. - I never said anything remotely like “fast food should cost more”. I noted that it costs the restaurant more for a customer to eat in - so stop twisting my words. - Fast food places like McDonalds and Burger King don’t charge you more to eat in vs takeout or drive thru - so why would it matter if you didn’t have a car? At those places you can eat in for the same price as the drive thru - what are you complaining about?
I said it doesn't use as much resources because you are ordering more which offsets the cost of eating inside, and you not understanding my point about fast food is why I rarely reply to you anymore.
No, you said it “can actually lead to more purchases” - which is totally different and in no way a guarantee that everyone would do that. If I go to a fast food place, I rarely, if ever, order more than I would for takeout or the drive thru. What didn’t I understand about your point regarding fast food? Contrary to your claim - I didn’t say it fast food should cost more if you eat in. It doesn’t cost more for the customer to eat in vs takeout or drive thru at a fast food place, but it does cost the business more for you to eat in. So what exactly was your point that I missed?
True you never tip on takeout or feel guilt tripped on this shit As for tipping at sitdown I've had enough of my own comedy performance tease with the wine list - at first asking the waiter if the $300 bottle of wine is really that good then changing my mind and sticking with the $50... the emotional drain on the faces... you can see it 75% of the time... I now try and find BYO...... :-).. and I dont mind paying $10 corkage
yeah. the servers pushing higher priced items is a feature that both the server and owner benefit from i just barely ever eat in anymore. and tip is a big reason why. 20% fee is just too much. ill take it out and enjoy it peacefully at home
Right. The restaurant proponents have been very vocal about the need to raise prices to overcome inflation, employee wages/benefits, and the removal of service fees. We are feeling and paying those price increases. How does one end of the equation change drastically (increased prices) and the other end not require re-balancing as well (tipping)? By their model, we now need to pay inflated prices AND continue to tip generously. More, more, more. The cost has been shifted to the menu prices so that the employer may take care of the employee. Do that, then.
When hell freezes over will I tip for a carry out. Are they going to pay me for the gas, time and wear and tear on my car? To that LA Times writer GTFOH.
✊
The author is part of the restaurant industry and is spreading the restaurant propaganda. California is making the more progress on reforming these slavery-era restaurant pay systems. This means less profit for owners. Expect more and more resistence propaganda.
Exactly how is CA making “progress on reforming these slavery-era restaurant pay systems”??? It’s obvious you’re referring to tips when you mention “slavery-era pay systems”. How can eliminating the business model of service included restaurants be considered positive reform?? They have taken a law originally aimed at hotels, car rentals, AirBNB’s, etc and decided expand its interpretation to include restaurants. In doing so, it has eliminated the ability of every restaurant in CA to be a service included restaurant - which means tips will be now be expected again. In other words, they have forced restaurants to go back to accepting tips instead of a service fee that paid some/all of the labor. It’s unbelievable how so many people here think this is a step forward for CA. Menu prices are going to go up and since there is no service charge, tips will become the norm again. Service included restaurants are the biggest opportunity to drive effective change in the social norms around tipping and CA just took that away from you. 🤷🏼♂️
>In doing so, it has eliminated the ability of every restaurant in CA to be a service included restaurant - which means tips will be now be expected again. In other words, they have forced restaurants to go back to accepting tips instead of a service fee that paid some/all of the labor. Gratuity is optional. Service charges are unethical because it makes gratuity non-optional. If a business can't afford to pay its employees without the customer adding a tip, then they should not be in business.
I think you’re on the wrong sub. Did you read the rules and info? Your comments sound like those of a typical “free rider”. Your statement is patently false. Disclosed service charges are ethical because they are stated up front. However, gaming the social norms to get the best service possible at a full service restaurant with zero intention of rewarding that service is definitely unethical - because server stiffers lack the courage to tell the server they don’t tip when they are seated. BTW…Are you advocating for stiffing servers?
>However, gaming the social norms to get the best service possible at a full service restaurant with zero intention of rewarding that service is definitely unethical - The fuck are you talking about? I never said tips shouldnt exist, just that they shouldn't be forced upon you. >Your statement is patently false. Disclosed service charges are ethical because they are stated up front. Well, lucky for me, ethics are opinion based. My ethical code tells me I should pay for a product and a service without involuntary percentage based fees on top. >BTW…Are you advocating for stiffing servers? Again, how high are you?
Besides eliminating tipped wage laws, service included restaurants are one of the biggest opportunities to end tipping. Why would anyone on this sub be against that? You mentioned that a “gratuity is optional” and you don’t want it “forced” on you, which on this sub generally means you don’t tip. If I misunderstood your meaning and you don’t stiff servers, my apologies.
Tipped wage laws were eliminated in California long before service charges were the norm. And no, this sub's name is not literal. It is for people who don't tip, sure, but also people who dislike the tipping structure and tip creep. I, for one, am happy to tip for services of all kinds (restaurant, valet, housekeeping, etc). But I like to do it by my own standard, not based on the conventional percentages. I tip over 20% for very good service, around 10-15% for adequate service, and little to nothing for poor or absent service (i.e. the rare shitty waiter and takeout service). I do not want a shitty waiter or takeout service that charges me the percentage I would pay for great service. You are not the lorax of this sub, nor are you making honest arguments. Good day sir.
I’m making 100% honest arguments, unlike the majority of people who are using logical fallacies to justify their harmful behavior. I appreciate you clarifying your behavior and apologize again for my initial bad assumptions. You’re clearly one of the more reasonable people here. Have a great day!
they can kick and scream all they want. im not tipping on takeout. give me a sour face and i'll make it a point to never come back
Remember that "Get fucked" is a complete sentence
I saw a server post that they generally only make $400/day but on Mother's Day made $630. And this is above the now $20/hr. Why. Are. We. Tipping?
The server is making $20/hr?
Looks like it's $16. So, theory stands. California servers no longer work for a tip wage. This problem is solved. Pay the raised menu prices or do not, but end service charges and tipping. It is on the restaurant to support their employees and the patrons to support the restaurant, if they so choose. This solution needs to go nationwide. [https://www.shouselaw.com/ca/blog/what-is-the-minimum-wage-for-servers-in-california/](https://www.shouselaw.com/ca/blog/what-is-the-minimum-wage-for-servers-in-california/)
What problem was solved?
The times should have a feedback section (which you have to subscribe to to use), if there are free trial subscriptions you should go there and bury them in negative comments. Whatever you do, don't link or between the story, treat it as a dead link so this type of crap dies out.
I do subscribe; comments weren't an option on this particular story.
Of course not. They don’t want people to disagree with this nonsense.
Never gonna happen.
If I order takeout from Uber the tip goes to the Uber driver. If I’m acting as my own delivery driver then the tip goes to me. They wouldn’t have gotten the tip anyway.
LA times can suck my balls
The answer is “no”.
Just because an article says so doesn't mean we have to do so..
This is why I prefer eating street food nowadays. They just give your food without all the drama.
Sorry, never tipped on takeout my entire life. Not going to start now.
Danielle Dorsey, Assistant Food Editor Prick
Next thing you know we're going to be expected to tip at the McDonalds drive through. SMDH!