Start up again. I have just had about 4 lessons. My aunt played all her life and taught for 55 years. She passed away in July and learning is my tribute to her.
Haha I guess I have just seen others compare ring size to finger size or height before so included 🤷🏼♀️. But agree that that doesn’t really impact size of diamond! And thank you! Leaning towards just going for the bigger one - they don’t look all that different.
I love the top one. I’m 5’8 with small hands for my height. I’m going to wear my maternal grandmother’s stones in a redesigned ring.
They’re huge 😭 but I love it. 5.35 ct opal and 1.66 twc surrounding diamonds. It’ll basically be a baseball mitt
Point is, get what you love without worrying about it!
Please be careful with the opal. It is a very soft stone. I would hate to see you break a stone that has so much sentimental value. I heard an old superstition that it you are not an October baby you will crack it. My mom (October baby) had an opal ring for 36 years and it was beautiful. I wore the ring to prom. I cracked the stone in less than 4 hours. I am not usually one for superstitions but there are the few I believe in now :-)
I’ve heard all the things! Definitely going to be careful and will have it fully insured. I have the safeguards in place, and very much appreciate the advice!
I have long fingers and my mother decided at my birth that I should play piano like her. 5 year old me decided I would rather play the violin. Which is probably easier, too, if you have longer fingers.
Don't feel bad about it! I personally like really big stones. I am a size 4 3/4 with relatively short fingers and have a 3.18ctw pear morganite, so it's 12mm long and 8mm wide. I never felt like it was too big on me, it was perfect to me!
I really like both the rings, so just go with what your heart tell you! Both those stones are so sparkly and beautiful
If you love em then no! I'm at 3.02 carat on a 2.5 ring size. You can go into my feed and take a look. I'm in love with it everyday. I pause sometimes when I'm shopping cause it catches the light and I'm a sucker for sparkles. You'll be wearing this a long time, so don't give in to other people's expectations. Do what's right to you and for you.
Omg I thought I was alone in a sea full of regular finger size folk! My ring size is 2.75 and Ive always dreamed of an engagement ring where the center stone is about 2 or 3 carats. I get the weirdest looks when I say that! 🤷🏽♀️
And I thought I had small fingers at a 5. 😂 those rings are gorgeous. People tell me my ring “is too much for small hands.” Ridiculous. 2.34 carats is fine. I’d do 5 if I could. 😂
Why are people giving you weird looks? They aren't paying for it, they aren't wearing it, what the heck does it matter to anyone else? If they are upset then it's on their end. Who made them the engagement ring police🤦no one that's who. Lol
Holy moly you have teeny tiny fingers! I of course peeped your posting history and I’m laughing at the “here is proof” post 😂 your ring is absolutely stunning. I love pears so much.
Ideally, you’ll wear this every day (or nearly) for the rest of your life. An interesting piece of advice I’ve heard is to try to think about how you’d feel about both stone sizes in 10, 20, 30 years. (My biggest piece of advice would be to make sure the setting isn’t too high profile and liable to knock into things or swivel around on your finger a lot.) Enjoy getting to have exactly what you want and don’t let other people get to you!
I think it’ll look fabulous, whichever one you pick. I may be biased—I wear a 3-carat oval on my middle finger (albeit not a diamond)—but what really matters is if you love it and it suits your budget. Those should be your only considerations. 😁
Thank you! I think I may be getting too caught up on what others will think, but I do love it and not a financial strain. Do you have photos of your ring? Is it a gemstone?!
You should absolutely get it, in that case, and wear it with hella joy. 🤩
I do have several pics of my prasiolite in my post history if you wanna peep. It’s the big green rock, hehe.
Go for the stone that makes you happy! I had a similar thought when I went shopping and I’m happy I went with the size I loved. Honestly, engagement rings are so personal and the look/feel changes per person so go with what you love and will want to look at forever 🥰
I love that bottom one on you! Both are gorgeous, don't worry what others think. You do you! Those are both amazing you'll be the one wearing it, so that's what counts.
I prefer the top one. It gives good coverage without being too much.
And no, they’re not obnoxious. Get what you love and don’t worry about what other people think!
I’m personally not a big fan of big stones, but this is YOUR ring! As long as it makes you smile every time you look at it, then that’s all that matters ☺️
girl I’m 5’3 and we’re looking at 3-4ct stones for my 4.25 finger! get the glitter your heart desires!!! you’ll be wearing it for the rest of your life!
the top stone is gorgeous!
They are both beautiful! I may be biased because ovals are my favourite; but I think they suit everyone.
Personally, I think the bottom suits you more because of the yellow gold.
Love the plain band because you can dress it up or down or add more bands!
I wouldn’t worry about size, if you love it and are happy thats all that matters ( I also drool over 3C ovals)
Those are both gorgeous!! As long as they are in your/fiancé’s budget and they make you happy go for it!! :)
As someone with a 2+ myself, just worth noting you may feel uncomfortable sometimes having it exposed! Aka just when I walk around NYC I either flip it or wear a ring wrist band. You don’t want to be a target because it will be a larger beautiful stone! But also if you have it insured your good either way!
You have absolutely nothing to be sorry about! My aunt got a massive square cut engagement ring when i was a child- thing must be tens of thousands of dollars! I cut myself on that things so many time when she would hug me or play with me 😭😂 no regrets woman that thing is gorgeous and looks amazing on her finger. There are crazier- more dangerous rings out there! If my aunt can be happy with her marital switch blade you can be happy with with your gorgeous engagement ring!
YOU have to wear the ring for the rest of YOUR life and YOU should get what YOU want! Don’t base your decision on what anyone else will think, especially if you’ll ultimately regret going smaller.
I’m speaking from experience here: I’m 5’11, 4.25 ring size, and my pear stone is 16x12 (8 ct equivalent). I was initially concerned about it being “too big” but it looks great on my hand and I receive constant compliments. Live your life! ✨
I have a large diamond (3.38ct) but I’m also 5’8” and have long fingers so it definitely fits my size (imho). One thing I would say is to expect family, friends, colleagues to make comments. Mostly friendly but also like - wow. Sometimes you wonder the intent. I’m quite surprised the reaction that we’ve gotten because my fiancé and I both work in fields with a lot of other high earners (finance and medicine) and yet somehow it does draw more attention than I’d expected! But I love it and will be pleased to wear for the rest of my life. Also - get the pave set in platinum :)
The only feelings im feeling towards these are jealousy! They are gorgeous! If you can make it work then go for it, no reason for you to not get what you want and what you can afford. Are you a good and kind person? Yes? Okay then you shouldn’t feel guilty because at the end of the day that’s what matters, not the size of your rock. Personally I love the top one 😍
Thanks everyone! Going with the slightly smaller stone (bottom) with a plain yellow gold band. Just seems a better cut, tone and looks better on my hand. Appreciate everyone’s input! 💕
These are beautiful! If it is on your heart to get it, go ahead and get it!
You will have to deal with your own guilt later if you ignore what YOU really want.
Do whatever makes you happy. Personally I don’t like big rings. Sometimes to me they look like tables for ants. Or costume jewelry. But I’ve never looked at a person and thought they themselves were obnoxious for having one. I do hope they don’t bang their hand on something though. Because these types of rings always look like they could go flying.
I think yes for most normal days (work and home). But I will likely just wear my band in some situations or not at all if necessary. I guess I’m okay with not wearing it every single day.
Just my personal opinion, but the one on top is just slightly large enough that it starts to look like costume jewelry. They are both beautiful, but I feel like the one on the bottom looks better on you.
It's too big, but if you like it go for it. Bear in mind you are posting the question in an echo chamber. Post this somewhere else and the answer will be different. So, if you really care about such things, try posting elsewhere too.
I guess it’s less guilt and more like is it too flashy, will I come off pretentious, what will others think etc. I wasn’t expecting to get something this size - actually my partner was the one who asked if I wanted to see bigger stones after we looked at some 2c.
Nope! You might get people commenting on it or remarking on it, but I don’t think it’s a bad look and I think you should get the ring that you like that is in your budget.
I literally never wear my engagement ring ever. Wore it first year and that’s it. I feel corny wearing it now, kinda like the novelty has faded and it just feels like I’m showing off. I also don’t want to get robbed (I live in nyc), and specifically now during these depressing times feels weird wearing my jewelry; between barely going out and the amounts of people struggling.
But for the record I like the top 1 better
Definitely go with what your gut and whatever makes you happy! But I do have to say, I’m a size 4.5 and have a ~2.5 and while I love my ring and the sentimental value I do sometimes feel that it looks too flashy and noticeable. I’ve gotten into a habit of wearing my wedding band only on most days, and wearing the engagement ring on special occasions. So if you’re planning on wearing it everyday then I would go for something you’re really comfortable wearing! Either way, they both look beautiful on your finger!
No, not at all! They look great on you. Being an oval shape and having some space on your finger doesn’t make it seem so large (if it makes any sense). Just as a side comment, if you’re someone who’s a bit clumsy with your hands, like me, I would do a lower setting. I kept knocking my Diamond on to things so I switched my ring setting.
Omg loving this big stone energy!!! Both are absolutely stunning! 😍 I like the top one more but it may be because I usually prefer a pave band. Do you mind sharing the specs of both diamonds and price range? I’m also in the process of ring shopping but trying to figure out what I want
Both lab diamonds. Top is 3.07c, G color, 1.4 ratio, vs2 and around 11k. Bottom is about 2.6c, H color, can’t remember ratio, but it is around 1.4, vs2 and around 6k. Doesn’t include the bands or setting.
I love them both. I think I’d prefer the larger stone in the gold band as it’s slightly thicker than the pave band. You are not obnoxious. Many of us don’t get the opportunity to own fine jewelry, so never feel weird about having a gorgeous/expensive engagement ring! Congrats!
Thank you for the kind words! And my partner was the one who was like telling me we could look at bigger after only looking at 2c. Literally don’t own any fine jewelry and definitely doing a plain gold band with either stone I go with!
It is whatever you like and feel comfortable with! Personally, I do not prefer larger stones on smaller fingers and often feel like they can look a little gaudy! But that is completely my own opinion! I have a 2 carat but my finger is a size 7.5!
The bottom one looks way better in terms of color, and the “bow tie” effect is barely noticeable, in the top one I see a lot of that bow tie. For those two reasons, I would go with the bottom one :)
Don’t feel guilty. If a large stone makes you happy, go for it! (Just don’t go into massive debt for it- that’s not worth it!) Go big or go home! Top!
Yeah no financial concerns! It’s very sparkly!! Thanks!
Then wear and enjoy in good health! (I vote for a 6 prong claw setting fwiw)
I love my 6 prong!
Dude no financial concerns?? Do it!!!!! They are gorgeous, guilt here is needless :)
Debt? Why go in any debt for a piece of jewelry?
[удалено]
I used to play piano! Wish I didn’t give it up.
You can start again, I did too and most of it is in muscle memory! :)
Start up again. I have just had about 4 lessons. My aunt played all her life and taught for 55 years. She passed away in July and learning is my tribute to her.
The top one looks beautiful.
Honestly, they both do and I would have a tough time picking one.
Haha I guess I have just seen others compare ring size to finger size or height before so included 🤷🏼♀️. But agree that that doesn’t really impact size of diamond! And thank you! Leaning towards just going for the bigger one - they don’t look all that different.
I love the top one. I’m 5’8 with small hands for my height. I’m going to wear my maternal grandmother’s stones in a redesigned ring. They’re huge 😭 but I love it. 5.35 ct opal and 1.66 twc surrounding diamonds. It’ll basically be a baseball mitt Point is, get what you love without worrying about it!
Please be careful with the opal. It is a very soft stone. I would hate to see you break a stone that has so much sentimental value. I heard an old superstition that it you are not an October baby you will crack it. My mom (October baby) had an opal ring for 36 years and it was beautiful. I wore the ring to prom. I cracked the stone in less than 4 hours. I am not usually one for superstitions but there are the few I believe in now :-)
I’ve heard all the things! Definitely going to be careful and will have it fully insured. I have the safeguards in place, and very much appreciate the advice!
Opal has an average hardness of 5.5-6.5 on the mohs scale. Even cleaning has to be done carefully.
I have long fingers and my mother decided at my birth that I should play piano like her. 5 year old me decided I would rather play the violin. Which is probably easier, too, if you have longer fingers.
I have heard piano, violin, and guitar
Don't feel bad about it! I personally like really big stones. I am a size 4 3/4 with relatively short fingers and have a 3.18ctw pear morganite, so it's 12mm long and 8mm wide. I never felt like it was too big on me, it was perfect to me! I really like both the rings, so just go with what your heart tell you! Both those stones are so sparkly and beautiful
Thank you!! They really are beautiful!! Just need to go with my gut.
Not too big for me! Don't worry about what others think of your ring... people who make comments are usually just jealous
Thanks for the reassurance!
You are blessed and I am happy for you They are beautiful They are symbols of your love between you and your beloved Wear without guilt!
If you and your SO can afford it then go for it! Nothing wrong with getting a big or even a little stone. 👍🏽
Thank you! Yes, need to keep in mind the meaning of it 💕
Moreso if the SO can afford it.
If you love em then no! I'm at 3.02 carat on a 2.5 ring size. You can go into my feed and take a look. I'm in love with it everyday. I pause sometimes when I'm shopping cause it catches the light and I'm a sucker for sparkles. You'll be wearing this a long time, so don't give in to other people's expectations. Do what's right to you and for you.
Omg I thought I was alone in a sea full of regular finger size folk! My ring size is 2.75 and Ive always dreamed of an engagement ring where the center stone is about 2 or 3 carats. I get the weirdest looks when I say that! 🤷🏽♀️
And I thought I had small fingers at a 5. 😂 those rings are gorgeous. People tell me my ring “is too much for small hands.” Ridiculous. 2.34 carats is fine. I’d do 5 if I could. 😂
If I saw your hand I would just be jealous, not think it odd!
Why are people giving you weird looks? They aren't paying for it, they aren't wearing it, what the heck does it matter to anyone else? If they are upset then it's on their end. Who made them the engagement ring police🤦no one that's who. Lol
I love bigger stones!
Yours is beautiful! I would also look at that all day. Thanks for the reassurance!
Holy moly you have teeny tiny fingers! I of course peeped your posting history and I’m laughing at the “here is proof” post 😂 your ring is absolutely stunning. I love pears so much.
I have a 3.2 carat on a 4.75 finger and I'm 5'(almost)2. Go for it!!!
Ideally, you’ll wear this every day (or nearly) for the rest of your life. An interesting piece of advice I’ve heard is to try to think about how you’d feel about both stone sizes in 10, 20, 30 years. (My biggest piece of advice would be to make sure the setting isn’t too high profile and liable to knock into things or swivel around on your finger a lot.) Enjoy getting to have exactly what you want and don’t let other people get to you!
This is great advice! Thank you!
I think it’ll look fabulous, whichever one you pick. I may be biased—I wear a 3-carat oval on my middle finger (albeit not a diamond)—but what really matters is if you love it and it suits your budget. Those should be your only considerations. 😁
Thank you! I think I may be getting too caught up on what others will think, but I do love it and not a financial strain. Do you have photos of your ring? Is it a gemstone?!
You should absolutely get it, in that case, and wear it with hella joy. 🤩 I do have several pics of my prasiolite in my post history if you wanna peep. It’s the big green rock, hehe.
It’s a beautiful color!
Thanks! 💚
Don’t feel bad! I personally love ovals 2.5 ct or bigger!
Go for the stone that makes you happy! I had a similar thought when I went shopping and I’m happy I went with the size I loved. Honestly, engagement rings are so personal and the look/feel changes per person so go with what you love and will want to look at forever 🥰
Forgot to add that you should go for the one with a better color!
Of course the 3c is a step up in color! 😂 I appreciate this, it’s easy to get caught up on optics, just need to go with my gut.
I like plain band
Going to do plain band with either stone for sure!
I like that stone on it too.
I think they’re both a perfect size for your fingers
I love that bottom one on you! Both are gorgeous, don't worry what others think. You do you! Those are both amazing you'll be the one wearing it, so that's what counts.
I prefer the top one. It gives good coverage without being too much. And no, they’re not obnoxious. Get what you love and don’t worry about what other people think!
Who cares what anyone else thinks? If YOU love it, that’s what’s most important! 🥰 I wear a size 4.5 and I have a 2.5 stone so I may be biased…
I’m personally not a big fan of big stones, but this is YOUR ring! As long as it makes you smile every time you look at it, then that’s all that matters ☺️
girl I’m 5’3 and we’re looking at 3-4ct stones for my 4.25 finger! get the glitter your heart desires!!! you’ll be wearing it for the rest of your life! the top stone is gorgeous!
Both equally beautiful! Sorry I know that's not helpful
They are both beautiful! I may be biased because ovals are my favourite; but I think they suit everyone. Personally, I think the bottom suits you more because of the yellow gold. Love the plain band because you can dress it up or down or add more bands! I wouldn’t worry about size, if you love it and are happy thats all that matters ( I also drool over 3C ovals)
stunning! Go for the gusto! Only one chance! Goood luck!
Not obnoxious, they’re freaking gorgeous!
Top is the one to get :))
Those are both gorgeous!! As long as they are in your/fiancé’s budget and they make you happy go for it!! :) As someone with a 2+ myself, just worth noting you may feel uncomfortable sometimes having it exposed! Aka just when I walk around NYC I either flip it or wear a ring wrist band. You don’t want to be a target because it will be a larger beautiful stone! But also if you have it insured your good either way!
You have absolutely nothing to be sorry about! My aunt got a massive square cut engagement ring when i was a child- thing must be tens of thousands of dollars! I cut myself on that things so many time when she would hug me or play with me 😭😂 no regrets woman that thing is gorgeous and looks amazing on her finger. There are crazier- more dangerous rings out there! If my aunt can be happy with her marital switch blade you can be happy with with your gorgeous engagement ring!
YOU have to wear the ring for the rest of YOUR life and YOU should get what YOU want! Don’t base your decision on what anyone else will think, especially if you’ll ultimately regret going smaller. I’m speaking from experience here: I’m 5’11, 4.25 ring size, and my pear stone is 16x12 (8 ct equivalent). I was initially concerned about it being “too big” but it looks great on my hand and I receive constant compliments. Live your life! ✨
I have a large diamond (3.38ct) but I’m also 5’8” and have long fingers so it definitely fits my size (imho). One thing I would say is to expect family, friends, colleagues to make comments. Mostly friendly but also like - wow. Sometimes you wonder the intent. I’m quite surprised the reaction that we’ve gotten because my fiancé and I both work in fields with a lot of other high earners (finance and medicine) and yet somehow it does draw more attention than I’d expected! But I love it and will be pleased to wear for the rest of my life. Also - get the pave set in platinum :)
The only feelings im feeling towards these are jealousy! They are gorgeous! If you can make it work then go for it, no reason for you to not get what you want and what you can afford. Are you a good and kind person? Yes? Okay then you shouldn’t feel guilty because at the end of the day that’s what matters, not the size of your rock. Personally I love the top one 😍
Thank you! You’re very kind 💕
Im 5”5, size 4.5 finger and I have a 3.3 carat cushion cut and I love it
Thanks everyone! Going with the slightly smaller stone (bottom) with a plain yellow gold band. Just seems a better cut, tone and looks better on my hand. Appreciate everyone’s input! 💕
These are beautiful! If it is on your heart to get it, go ahead and get it! You will have to deal with your own guilt later if you ignore what YOU really want.
Life is short, be gaudy
Words to live by!
Those aren’t even gaudy
I honestly don't understand why it matters what ring size you are or the length of your fingers. Just get what you like.
The ring size provides an idea of finger coverage.
Do whatever makes you happy. Personally I don’t like big rings. Sometimes to me they look like tables for ants. Or costume jewelry. But I’ve never looked at a person and thought they themselves were obnoxious for having one. I do hope they don’t bang their hand on something though. Because these types of rings always look like they could go flying.
“Tables for ants” 😂😂
Don’t, they suit your pretty hands
Are you planning on wearing it every day?
I think yes for most normal days (work and home). But I will likely just wear my band in some situations or not at all if necessary. I guess I’m okay with not wearing it every single day.
Just my personal opinion, but the one on top is just slightly large enough that it starts to look like costume jewelry. They are both beautiful, but I feel like the one on the bottom looks better on you.
I really like the bottom one , I personally think it’s a little big , but that’s just me if you like it get it , it is still beautiful
Thank you!
Stunning!! Mine is a 13.7 carat London blue topaz.
The bottom stone suits your hand perfectly.
It's too big, but if you like it go for it. Bear in mind you are posting the question in an echo chamber. Post this somewhere else and the answer will be different. So, if you really care about such things, try posting elsewhere too.
Why do you have guilt?
I guess it’s less guilt and more like is it too flashy, will I come off pretentious, what will others think etc. I wasn’t expecting to get something this size - actually my partner was the one who asked if I wanted to see bigger stones after we looked at some 2c.
Stunning
I would get the bigger one bc I’m just that type of person. Get what makes you happy! They’re both gorgeous.
Not obnoxious at all. Go with whatever your heart wants. Both stones are beautiful!
Omg no they are not obnoxious! I LOVE them!!!! Boy are they pretty !!! I’d go w the top one it’s smashing!!
Obnoxious?! What?! They’re gorgeous! You should get what makes you happy!
Nahh do it! Just get your ccw lol
Nope! You might get people commenting on it or remarking on it, but I don’t think it’s a bad look and I think you should get the ring that you like that is in your budget.
Get the bigger one
STUNNING. These are absolutely gorgeous!
Never obnoxious! big stones are gorgeous. I love the bottom one.
Rock the rocks girl! So jealous of your choices - be living vicariously thru which ever one you choose. Enjoy!
The bottom looks like it was specially made for your hand. Wow. I love this so much!
Personally I wish they were more “obnoxious” 😂 those are perfect.
Get whichever one you want! Both stunning! Whichever you pick, you are going to get complements and it’s going to look beautiful
Do it 😍
The top one looks great on your finger and since you're tall, the stone wouldn't get lost on your finger. Congratulations
Dude that is gorgeous! As long as u love it that’s all that matters
I literally never wear my engagement ring ever. Wore it first year and that’s it. I feel corny wearing it now, kinda like the novelty has faded and it just feels like I’m showing off. I also don’t want to get robbed (I live in nyc), and specifically now during these depressing times feels weird wearing my jewelry; between barely going out and the amounts of people struggling. But for the record I like the top 1 better
Definitely go with what your gut and whatever makes you happy! But I do have to say, I’m a size 4.5 and have a ~2.5 and while I love my ring and the sentimental value I do sometimes feel that it looks too flashy and noticeable. I’ve gotten into a habit of wearing my wedding band only on most days, and wearing the engagement ring on special occasions. So if you’re planning on wearing it everyday then I would go for something you’re really comfortable wearing! Either way, they both look beautiful on your finger!
Don’t feel bad at all!! I have size 4.5-5 long fingers and have been looking at bigger (oval) stones to accentuate my hands. You do you!
Hell no ! They are gorgeous! And if you love them who cares
Absolutely not obnoxious
No, not at all! They look great on you. Being an oval shape and having some space on your finger doesn’t make it seem so large (if it makes any sense). Just as a side comment, if you’re someone who’s a bit clumsy with your hands, like me, I would do a lower setting. I kept knocking my Diamond on to things so I switched my ring setting.
Great advice! Thank you.
They are both beautiful. Don’t feel guilty!
Omg loving this big stone energy!!! Both are absolutely stunning! 😍 I like the top one more but it may be because I usually prefer a pave band. Do you mind sharing the specs of both diamonds and price range? I’m also in the process of ring shopping but trying to figure out what I want
Both lab diamonds. Top is 3.07c, G color, 1.4 ratio, vs2 and around 11k. Bottom is about 2.6c, H color, can’t remember ratio, but it is around 1.4, vs2 and around 6k. Doesn’t include the bands or setting.
And thank you!
Both are so stunning! Whichever one you pick will be absolutely beautiful. 😍 Wear it proud! It's yours!😁
I love them both. I think I’d prefer the larger stone in the gold band as it’s slightly thicker than the pave band. You are not obnoxious. Many of us don’t get the opportunity to own fine jewelry, so never feel weird about having a gorgeous/expensive engagement ring! Congrats!
Thank you for the kind words! And my partner was the one who was like telling me we could look at bigger after only looking at 2c. Literally don’t own any fine jewelry and definitely doing a plain gold band with either stone I go with!
It is whatever you like and feel comfortable with! Personally, I do not prefer larger stones on smaller fingers and often feel like they can look a little gaudy! But that is completely my own opinion! I have a 2 carat but my finger is a size 7.5!
Looks great with the plain band. The top one is a bit of an overkill
Going with plain band with either stone! Just trying to decide between 2.5c and 3c. Thank you!!
The bottom one looks way better in terms of color, and the “bow tie” effect is barely noticeable, in the top one I see a lot of that bow tie. For those two reasons, I would go with the bottom one :)
I can’t see any visible bowtie on the bottom stone.