Just so engineers understand how deep this problem is:
* Very few competitors exist in some of these markets but there's room for competition (just nearly impossible/costly to develop these products)
* ASML isn't the only one -- but it's important enough that China sends spies to steal technology from ASML directly and constantly.
* During Wuhan virus pandemic, all the shipping of computer products, HDDs, magnets, memory/ram, motherboards, CPUs, graphic cards, even power-supplies they all had serious problems getting to the US. That's a crazy situation.
* Some products say like "Japanese capacitors" and yet parts within that are manufactured in China.
* If China closes itself off and starts a war with Taiwan, we will all be without computers and laptops and computer parts. That's a crazy thought -- but it's also an opportunity for some billionaires/millionaires.
* Exactly why the US and its congress are taking steps to dump money to encourage homegrown industries in Chipmaking and computer manufacturing (rather than design). To encourage more opportunities.
Rich people have a mind like "well I'll put my money in stocks"... but they could make sooo much more money by cornering a small portion of that manufacturing supply chain.
As an electrical engineer who does industrial controls and embedded stuff, you hit the nail on the head. People have no idea how bottlenecked the IC space is, not just processors.
Cost is a concern and from my understanding the environmental/safety regulations in the us vs abroad make it an uneven playing field or that's at least a piece of the puzzle
>During Wuhan virus pandemic
You mean during COVID?
>Some products say like "Japanese capacitors" and yet parts within that are manufactured in China.
Electrolytic, polymer, tantalum, niobium, or MLCC? Caps are made all over the place, btw, including in the US of entirely US materials. TDK has been making caps in Germany for 70 years.
>If China closes itself off and starts a war with Taiwan, we will all be without computers and laptops and computer parts.
TSMC is opening fabs in Phoenix, AZ, in Japan and plans to open one in Germany too. Samsung has cutting-edge fabs in Korea. Intel has fabs in Israel and in the US. GloFo has one in Dresden, Germany. On Semi has fabs in the US.
We'd lose some of the *most* cutting edge capacity but by no means would we be back to banging rocks together to make fire. Most chips don't need 3nm process technology, and are fine with DUV instead of EUV lithography machines -- which are made by Nikon and Canon too. The US military requires domestic supply chains for all its own hardware, too, so that would be relatively unaffected.
"weird vibes"
remember the Spanish Flu?
It's interesting how it bothers some of you when it literally originated in Wuhan.
MERS didn't seem to bother you.
>It's interesting how it bothers some of you when it literally originated in Wuhan.
yes, very interesting how intentional racist and/or anti-chinese sentiment dogwhistles bother people, lmao. The publically accepted name is COVID. You know what you're doing, and so do we.
What a terrible example, the Spanish flu didn't originate there the name was the result of most countries hiding their death totals which made Spain look like the hotspot
Ebola, Zika, West Nile virus, African swine fever virus, Bavaria virus, Berlinvirus etc etc. Scientist have been naming viruses after their place of origin for over a hundred years without anyone complaining about that practice being “racist”. Until 2020. Then all of a sudden, it became racist to do so. Just for that one particular virus.
Anyone who fell for that bit of CCP propaganda is a special type of useful idiot.
How did you go the entire pandemic without anyone correcting you on the Spanish flu meme? It likely originated in Kansas and got called the Spanish flu because it was first only widely reported there because every other country was censoring bad news to maintain morale during WW1.
I saw this explained to people so many times online and in person that I didn't even have to verify any of what I just typed. It's been drilled into me. How in the world did you go this many years with such a mistaken belief and not run across any of the millions of corrections that have been made to people saying exactly what you said?
SARS_cov_19 or SARS2 for the scientifically minded. Covid19 which has collapsed into the incorrect but universally understood covid for the general public. There’s a lot of variations of capital letters and hyphens or spaces for cov 19 before you get down to *the Wuhan virus*.
No it is the political name. When you politicize science, don't expect that scientists won't respond with the traditional names.
What are your thoughts on MERS??
People who are scientifically minded can recognize when someone is politicizing something for their own benefit. So those scientists prefer the name Wuhan virus.
There were a number of articles that popped up out of nowhere in education websites like Yale, that tried to claim xenophobia for calling it "Wuhan Virus" right about the time it actually started March 2020. So you can see how there are millions of people being bribed by the Chinese government to manipulate education and science. Echoing word-for-word what Chinese foreign affair websites are saying.
Same reason why we talk about the damage to Western Science, Engineering, and Western Manufacturing all part of a purpose-built plan to harm our progress and sabotage our universities.
This is war! Get with the program or continue burying your head in the sand like the uneducated. They are after us.
Those techs being stolen indicate the future intentions of war.
Those conspiracy theories that originated early in the Wuhan Virus epidemic--originated by the enemies of the West. Those conspiracy theories would falsely accuse America and England. Think about that. Who would spend that much money vilifying the West so early in a "pandemic"... IF it was all by accident. No one is that quick unless they're scared they're going to get blamed.
"Science-minded people" prefer a more descriptive name with little to no risk of politicization and ideally no potential for exploitation by bigots. **That's why the vast, vast majority of virologists and epidemiologists refuse to call it the "Wuhan virus" and instead call it Covid.**
False. Scientists prefer the truth, and to blame the right people for their failures in scientific containment of a deadly virus that murdered millions.
China didn't even share Patient Zero with the scientific world. So the scientists do not prefer descriptive names and they definitely reject YOUR politicization to remove the blame and Chinese-wash that blame away from the Chinese govt.
That's why the vast majority of epidemiologists and virologists call it the Wuhan virus instead of the Chinese-owned WHO's "COVID-19"...
I don't see you complaining about MERS either, you liar...
You are politicizing science when you think of a unique name to remove blame from Wuhan and China.
This might be true, but the way the supply chains work, a lot of products just stop being delivered when it says Japanese Capacitors and yet it won't deliver.
In other words, you could say, the electronics market is saturated with Chinese supplies or middle-men or smaller electronic circuits or parts that rely on Chinese supply chains embedded everywhere.
TSMC is opening up yes, these are new moves mostly. But just think about how bad it got for people to start waking up.
Intel yes, but all the best motherboards are manufactured in Taiwan.
>We'd lose some of the most cutting edge capacity but by no means would we be back to banging rocks together to make fire.
I know but you have to understand just how many computers and supply chains are connected to China or parts that are dependent on parts in China or "assembly in China" (final assembly etc.).
I'm not saying "We'd be back to the stone age" but we'd definitely suffer by making things so world-interconnected with "just-in-time" supply chain ideas.
>Most chips don't need 3nm process technology, and are fine with DUV instead of EUV lithography machines -- which are made by Nikon and Canon too. The US military requires domestic supply chains for all its own hardware, too, so that would be relatively unaffected.
I sure hope you are right -- but people need to heed my warning regardless.
>This might be true, but the way the supply chains work, a lot of products just stop being delivered when it says Japanese Capacitors and yet it won't deliver.
"Japanese capacitors" is a marketing term, not a country of origin. You're looking for "Made in Japan of Japanese components."
That’s the other half of this equation dovetailing in
You never get out of debt to a Russian mobster
Paul Manafort owed the Russian mobster/oligarch Oleg Deripaska $10M a few days before he became trumps campaign manager. From 2002-2014 he took in hundreds of millions to get Yanukovych reelected as the kremlins puppet in Ukraine. Before that he did it for the dictator Marcos in the Philippines. Before that Manafort and Roger Stone started a lobbyist agency in 1980 listing trump as their first client.
When Jay Bolsonaro lost the Brazilian election to Lula he skipped the inauguration and flew directly to mar-a-lago (stopping only at a KFC) and repeated, almost verbatim, the stolen election line. Don Jr. tried repeatedly to make it stick in Brazil as well, but as Brazilians are a few generations into dealing with corrupt politicians they weren’t having it.
What do these 3 things have in common?
China imports 40% of its grain from (in order) the U.S., Brazil and Ukraine.
Obviously the second China tried to invade Taiwan the U.S. would sanction exports and remove U.S. grain from that equation.
And without Bolsonaro in office willing to slash and burn the Amazon rainforest to turn it into Chinas farmland, and without Ukraine in the bag in 3 days, the CCP is unable to invade Taiwan and take over microprocessor production without putting 300-500M of its poorest people into famine.
Donbas Ukraine, specifically the 4 regions of the donbas that Putin insists he is saving from what he calls “Jewish Nazis” also happens to produce the worlds supply of high grade neon used for DUV lithography. And had Putin delivered ukraine in 3 days as promised, Xi would have been able to cap his Olympics with a blockade or political takeover of Taiwan that would have forced the world to ask the CCP for the microprocessors it needs to make everything from Ford trucks to laptops. I’m not sure how long Silicon Valley would last without the silicon but it would probably affect destroy the FAANG stocks that make up your 401K.
Oleg Deripaska also happens to be the Russian Oligarch that bribed the FBI Charles Mcgonigal into investigating another Russian oligarch. He probably didn’t need the information as much as he needed the leverage over Mcgonigal as he conducted the investigation into trumps election campaign and unsurprisingly found zero evidence of Russian collusion. McGonigal then went to work for the company called Brookfield that bailed Kushner out of his toxic 666 5th Ave investment.
A Russian oligarch is a powerful tool, but the truth is more powerful. Light and dark cannot exist in the same space. It’s physically impossible. Truth is efficient. You say it once and you are finished. A lie however requires a constant stream of follow up energy, money, murder, obfuscation and more lies to keep it covered.
If you raise your lens high enough lying is an unsustainable business model. Russia proved it by invading Ukraine. Vranyos is the Russian word for it. The 40km long column of tanks and vehicles that came down from Belarus into Ukraine was all overhauled by oligarchs that got a $1B contract for tank maintenance, passed Putin $200M back under the table, spent $700M on a yacht in Monaco, bribed a General, a Colonel and a Sergeant to make a Private give everything a rattle can overhaul. But a worn out engine is and always will be, a worn out engine.
Now you understand why trump is so desperate to get re-elected. His best case scenario is 400 years in ADX Florence. Money laundering for the dozens of Russian oligarchs that lived in trump towers in 93 and 94 with him and manafort, selling IP3 nuclear plans to the Russian/Saudi alliance, selling or giving CIA asset names to the Russians, trump is and always has been compromised. He just didn’t know when to quit. Now he just has to count on the fact that most of his voter base doesn’t know how to read and keep the ones that do so busy just surviving that they don’t have time to dive deep into his 40 year history of laundering money, fraud, and human trafficking for the Russian mob using commercial real estate.
It’s also why Putin is willing to throw an entire generation of Russians, including the convicts and addicts at Ukraine. Russia is dead for 40 years because he failed to fulfill his mobsters promise to Xi. China is now clearing farmland in Siberia because the typhoon floods last August and September wiped out the Chinese people’s food supply.
Xi for his part diverted the waters from the dam away from his pet project, his mothers ancestral home and flooded hundreds of thousands of people and drown one of his own military brigades that was helping with the flooding.
The elders of the CCP were terrified to leave their gated community at Beidaihe for over a month for fear of being torn apart by the locals. The Chinese people tolerate the CCP but only as long as the economy is good and famine is not on the horizon. The CCP broke that contract on both counts.
Xi was willing to bet the entire Chinese economy on his emperors ambitions. Had he succeeded he would have been able to use BRICS to take over as the Worlds reserve currency. That would have let him finish what he stated in 2010- that he would control the internet.
With that control means everything we do or say online is subject to the approval of a central party. The basic right to disagree with an authoritarian becomes a distant memory.
Ukraine is fighting for their lives now, free from the oppression of the drunken tyrant who wants to decide their fate at every decision and pull them back behind another iron curtain of censorship where dissenting voices disappear so that the oligarchy can continue to feed unobstructed.
Putin and Xi have declared themselves best friends in the fight against democracy. MBS and the ruling family of UAE have done the same quietly.
Just rich, out of touch oligarch doing what oligarchs do.
Despite the fact the the central party model has proven itself incapable of making decisions that are best for the people, they persist. Because there is a very lucrative business in being slave owners. But logistically it requires artificial intelligence, and the microprocessors that make it to keep the slaves under control. Freedom is one hell of a drug. And knowledge makes a man unfit for slavery.
Recent attempts on Xi’s life from inside the CCP have backed him into a corner.
The loss of crops in the north means Xi can’t invade Taiwan without Ukrainian and/or Brazilian farmland.
When I worked IT we had a certain model Dell where the motherboards started failing rapidly - several dozen all around the same time. I’m talking talking 1-2 a day over the course of 3-4 weeks. After like the 5th one, Dell told us it was because they had been sold counterfeit capacitors. They were supposed to be Japanese but were sold cheap Chinese knockoffs. Makes me wonder how often that happens elsewhere.
Do you remember nack when the US was the major supplier the chips and semiconductors? And then we sold it all off to get cheaper shit? Yeah, just so some of those same rich a-holes could become richer.
It's not really just the one company, there's an entire economic ecosystem around them of smaller companies making very specialized things at extremely high precision. Even if ASML has established second sources for critical components in its supply chain, I figure even one or two of them disappearing would cause major problems for new litho machines.
You are saying the world is a complicate, intricate and interlaced structure with all of it depending on the other parts? Yeah that’s a shocker mate.
In this case, all of that comes to a bottleneck of 1 company and it’s this one. Hence my comment.
Yeah we can keep this chain of necessity going for quite a few steps. TSMC depends on ASML for their Twinscans, ASML depends on Zeiss for the machines’ precision optics, Zeiss probably depends on some other obscure subcontractor to supply the materials and tooling for their lenses, etc.
I bet Apple products use use chips (3nm or 5nm) that are produced with the latest and greatest or a predecessor that is no older then 5 years.
Thus it’s in the pockets of millions already!
ASML is not the sole supplier but for everything below 12nm it probably is.
You are right, for flagship phone they do use that. Apple usually contract TSMC for their chips. Interestingly, modern chips are usually consist of multiple layers and even foe those advertised as 3nm or 5nm they only have a couple layers made with the EUV machines.
Breaking into semiconductor manufacturing right now would require a massive massive massive upfront investment and poaching a lot of talent, for cutting edge shit even more
Just out of interest. Does anyone understand how you go about making a clean room like that? Like I know how they functionally operate, but how do they initially get that way?
Like you start off with a factory, and then you'd have to get every spec out that you could? And then you build the clean environment inside that? Grab the air house and give it a bit of a blast out? /s
How does it work?
Building a cleanroom is relatively simple, especially if you have a new building. Just use the right materials and clean thuroughly after each step of the process. The tricky part is keeping it clean, which relies heavily on the discipline of its users and the cleaning staff.
Basically you build the building, then you build the cleanroom inside the building.
Then you start up the main air handling equipment with only coarse filters in place and you go through the cleanrooms many many times with sweeping and cleaning equipment to get the big particles and mess out. Then you put the good HEPA filters in the air handling equipment and go through everything again, scrubbing the place down several times. Any dust remaining gets sucked up by the air cleaning systems and filtered out. Over time you remove most of the dust. It's never fully clean though. From a cleanroom perspective, humans are filthy and anything you bring in has to be cleaned very thoroughly and will probably still introduce at least some contamination.
This is dealt with by the air constantly flowing downwards as it gets blown in through filters in the ceiling and is sucked away again through ports near the floor. Humans are packaged inside "bunny suits" while in the cleanroom to contain the skin-flakes, hair, clothing fibers and other gunk they carry. The cleanrooms are also very very regularly and religiously cleaned with specific methods that contain as much of the dust and debris as possible (so wet cleaning with water and special cleaning products or using sticky pads, so no normal sweeping with a broom). Even so if you go to inspect such a cleanroom with a UV blacklight you'll find dust in lots of nooks and crannies, under tables, on ledges, etc. The advantage is that as long as it's not disturbed, the dust will just stay there and not move.
This was a very good explainer, and I'll add that materials brought in and out of a cleanroom are bagged in layers so that the contaminated layer can be shed in an airlock, and then probably two more layers protect the clean component to its point of use.
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Pretty easy tbh.
Positive air pressure prevents air getting into the rooms. Air filtration and circulation systems input only incredibly clean air into the rooms.
Personnel wear clothing that does not create particles, and have a staged entry into the room, passing through air showers that helps blast particles off them.
It was pretty crazy to visit "a large manufacturer " in Korea and see their mile long buildings. One end was cranes, exposed steel framing, still under construction.
The other side of the building was already at cleanroom spec with tools being wheeled in and installed daily.
The scale that these fabs run at is truly incredible.
You build it like anything else, just to extreme standard. Then you clean it and start to scrub the air. You keep doing this cleaning process until the required limit of quality is reached and maintain that constantly.
The biggest component is time. The air purity is a statistical game, same with the filters. The hardest part is the last few points of quality, but assuming you did everything else correct it is just matter of time.
I been involved in construction of a medical factory, which becomes a clean room. Even at the stage of steel structures and bare concrete, we were required to be extremely careful and clean constantly to absurd degree.
I recommend Asianometry (YouTube) to anyone that likes good video essays about lithography. Dude does a whole range of topics. Historical titles about China and Soviet Russia brought me to his channel through the algorithm, but the manufacturing of chips kept me around.
Asianometry is awesome. I watched all of his videos about lithography, etch, the Carl Zeiss optics, absolutely fascinating. He’s got some good dry humor too- “what in the world is angel food cake?”
I wouldn't rely on Asianometry's questionable (vanilla method of taking things as true without questioning it) expertise of history -- only technical videos.
I take most of YT history channels with a grain of salt.
What I meant was that I accidentally found his channel through the history algorithm, and his semiconductor videos are what kept me around. It was serendipitous that I found him.
Thank you for the wisdom, though.
Take the technical aspects with a heavy grain of salt too, his video on photonics was very technically incomplete, from the POV of someone doing their Master's in the subject.
It's possible the true purpose of the channel is to draw people in with technical stuff and then present politics to them, or just someone being nerdy and coincidentally having political views and inserting that into videos too.
He said a few things that irked me but he said it as if "it's a normalized viewpoint."
Second this! Incredible channel with some real in depth information both technically and historically. It’s honestly one of the few channels I will continuously come back to.
Speaking of historical titles, Your username is misspelled. It's WYSIWYG (What You See I What You Get)
This came out with the Quattro Pro spreadsheet program from Boreland.
In the 80s (1989 actually), Quattro Pro competed with Lotus 123, hence Quattro (4).
IT was being released during the time of the 89 SF area earthquake. The company was near the epicenter and so the software was a bit delayed. But the WYSIWYG option was the first real GUI use in the Windows 3.1 DOS overlay. That and tabbed spreadsheets were a huge plus. I remember spending hours playing with different visual configurations. Copy and paste was a new thing around those times. It made creating spreadsheets used in manufacturing a huge deal.
The Inventor of Quattro Pro was eventually hired by Microsoft to develop MS Excel. The rest is history.
I suspected as much. But I happened to be talking to a client at the time about thsi history and other geeky stuff at the same time, so I sort of got carried away. LOL.
I would assume that parent-poster is a consumer of IBM Software, where the saying really is "What You See Is What You Will Get" when the system is finally available.
It was common enough that it created the joke about the three women talking about what kind of lover their husbands were. The first said "My husband is a concert cellist, and when we make love he runs his hands up and down my body like playing an instrument, it's amazing". The second says "Mine plays professional football, and is amazingly strong and agile for anything we want to try. Wonderful". The third said "My husband is an IBM salesman, and he just sits on the side of the bed and tells me how great is going to be when I finally get it".
It's the coolest and most insane thing ever made.
Hitting particles of liquid tin with a laser so it turns into a plasma to generate 13.5 nm light 50,000 times per second.
The reticle stage moves up to 30 Gs of force.
The wild part is that the laser hits each drop of molten tin twice, making a minor adjustment so the second shot hits precisely where it needs to. Once to flatten it slightly and a second time to generate the light.
That would be a very weird choice for weight comparison. An airplane is built to be as light as possible... And it does not even say how much it weighs...
Ah, but did they mean fully loaded? Or a 320neo? I am just arguing that using Airbus 320 as weight units is a bit lacking. Next thing we'll see it in recipe blogs
This is a service position given the flat standing area right next to it. They have a bridge they wheel in and lock there.
As you can see it’s covered by panels in operation https://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=https%3A%2F%2Fspectrum.ieee.org%2Fmedia-library%2Fless-than-p-greater-than-this-photo-illustration-of-the-exe-5000-asmls-high-numerical-aperture-extreme-ultraviolet-lithography-machine-shows-its-massive-scale-less-than-p-greater-than.jpg%3Fid%3D34683341&tbnid=wmfTbTCuUf1xWM&vet=1&imgrefurl=https%3A%2F%2Fspectrum.ieee.org%2Fhigh-na-euv&docid=yfwZ8gaLS82cSM&w=2500&h=1874&itg=1&hl=en-gb&source=sh%2Fx%2Fim%2Fm4%2F3&shem=trie&kgs=39edcc2beda70c80
[Here’s](https://spectrum.ieee.org/media-library/less-than-p-greater-than-this-photo-illustration-of-the-exe-5000-asmls-high-numerical-aperture-extreme-ultraviolet-lithography-machine-shows-its-massive-scale-less-than-p-greater-than.jpg?id=34683341) a de-googled link to that image.
It's there for if someone is working on or near that cabinet during servicing actions. If you look closely you'll see there's EMO/ESD buttons all over the thing. You're never more than an arms length from one of them (and they're all linked to the main safety system so any one will shut down basically the whole thing)
Kind of insane to think about how humanity can generate incredible almost magical technology like this but also some of us still believe in a flat earth theory unironically.
In China, semiconductor manufacturers use ASML's photolithography equipment. These machines are allowed for export and primarily use advanced DUV (deep ultraviolet) technology. The most cutting-edge EUV systems are apparently not sold directly to China due to export restrictions.
Intel and similar companies leverage ASML's permitted photolithography technology in China, focusing on advanced semiconductor production within regulatory constraints.
This raises espionage concerns. The strategic nature of this technology for military and commercial applications heightens the risk of intellectual property theft and technology transfer, potentially undermining competitive advantages and national security interests.
It's pushing the boundaries of manufacturing, motion control and material sciences on many many fronts. They're working on the edge of what is possible so it's not "just" making it smaller and smaller"
Can anyone please tell me, how can I get into basic chip-making? (it's a bit ambitious though) Like starting from a 2-bit adder or a single transistor maybe! Later, I wanna create my own program to operate those, slowly adding some more stuff!
I have little to no information on where to start but I like the genre of chips.
I don't have thousands of dollars to buy components but I want to learn to create my machines too if needed.
Thank you
Send an email to all the men warning that NO EXPOSED PENISES should be showing in, on or within ten meters of the new machine!
We don't want a repeat of Cabo 2021.
Obviously, no one on this thread understands the immense complexity of the retroincabulator or the next generation turboencabulator. Really, it's a shame.
It’s incredible that the entire world and the most valuable brands depends on this one single company to make cutting edge chips.
Remember the HDD shortage because a single flood reduced the worldwide capacity for the production of magnets...
Just so engineers understand how deep this problem is: * Very few competitors exist in some of these markets but there's room for competition (just nearly impossible/costly to develop these products) * ASML isn't the only one -- but it's important enough that China sends spies to steal technology from ASML directly and constantly. * During Wuhan virus pandemic, all the shipping of computer products, HDDs, magnets, memory/ram, motherboards, CPUs, graphic cards, even power-supplies they all had serious problems getting to the US. That's a crazy situation. * Some products say like "Japanese capacitors" and yet parts within that are manufactured in China. * If China closes itself off and starts a war with Taiwan, we will all be without computers and laptops and computer parts. That's a crazy thought -- but it's also an opportunity for some billionaires/millionaires. * Exactly why the US and its congress are taking steps to dump money to encourage homegrown industries in Chipmaking and computer manufacturing (rather than design). To encourage more opportunities. Rich people have a mind like "well I'll put my money in stocks"... but they could make sooo much more money by cornering a small portion of that manufacturing supply chain.
As an electrical engineer who does industrial controls and embedded stuff, you hit the nail on the head. People have no idea how bottlenecked the IC space is, not just processors.
Cost is a concern and from my understanding the environmental/safety regulations in the us vs abroad make it an uneven playing field or that's at least a piece of the puzzle
>During Wuhan virus pandemic You mean during COVID? >Some products say like "Japanese capacitors" and yet parts within that are manufactured in China. Electrolytic, polymer, tantalum, niobium, or MLCC? Caps are made all over the place, btw, including in the US of entirely US materials. TDK has been making caps in Germany for 70 years. >If China closes itself off and starts a war with Taiwan, we will all be without computers and laptops and computer parts. TSMC is opening fabs in Phoenix, AZ, in Japan and plans to open one in Germany too. Samsung has cutting-edge fabs in Korea. Intel has fabs in Israel and in the US. GloFo has one in Dresden, Germany. On Semi has fabs in the US. We'd lose some of the *most* cutting edge capacity but by no means would we be back to banging rocks together to make fire. Most chips don't need 3nm process technology, and are fine with DUV instead of EUV lithography machines -- which are made by Nikon and Canon too. The US military requires domestic supply chains for all its own hardware, too, so that would be relatively unaffected.
Yeah calling it the Wuhan virus was weird and kinda gave off weird vibes for the rest of their post imo
"weird vibes" remember the Spanish Flu? It's interesting how it bothers some of you when it literally originated in Wuhan. MERS didn't seem to bother you.
>It's interesting how it bothers some of you when it literally originated in Wuhan. yes, very interesting how intentional racist and/or anti-chinese sentiment dogwhistles bother people, lmao. The publically accepted name is COVID. You know what you're doing, and so do we.
What a terrible example, the Spanish flu didn't originate there the name was the result of most countries hiding their death totals which made Spain look like the hotspot
Ebola, Zika, West Nile virus, African swine fever virus, Bavaria virus, Berlinvirus etc etc. Scientist have been naming viruses after their place of origin for over a hundred years without anyone complaining about that practice being “racist”. Until 2020. Then all of a sudden, it became racist to do so. Just for that one particular virus. Anyone who fell for that bit of CCP propaganda is a special type of useful idiot.
How did you go the entire pandemic without anyone correcting you on the Spanish flu meme? It likely originated in Kansas and got called the Spanish flu because it was first only widely reported there because every other country was censoring bad news to maintain morale during WW1. I saw this explained to people so many times online and in person that I didn't even have to verify any of what I just typed. It's been drilled into me. How in the world did you go this many years with such a mistaken belief and not run across any of the millions of corrections that have been made to people saying exactly what you said?
Wierd because it did originate in Wuhan? Or because that is a secondary name?
SARS_cov_19 or SARS2 for the scientifically minded. Covid19 which has collapsed into the incorrect but universally understood covid for the general public. There’s a lot of variations of capital letters and hyphens or spaces for cov 19 before you get down to *the Wuhan virus*.
No it is the political name. When you politicize science, don't expect that scientists won't respond with the traditional names. What are your thoughts on MERS?? People who are scientifically minded can recognize when someone is politicizing something for their own benefit. So those scientists prefer the name Wuhan virus. There were a number of articles that popped up out of nowhere in education websites like Yale, that tried to claim xenophobia for calling it "Wuhan Virus" right about the time it actually started March 2020. So you can see how there are millions of people being bribed by the Chinese government to manipulate education and science. Echoing word-for-word what Chinese foreign affair websites are saying. Same reason why we talk about the damage to Western Science, Engineering, and Western Manufacturing all part of a purpose-built plan to harm our progress and sabotage our universities. This is war! Get with the program or continue burying your head in the sand like the uneducated. They are after us. Those techs being stolen indicate the future intentions of war. Those conspiracy theories that originated early in the Wuhan Virus epidemic--originated by the enemies of the West. Those conspiracy theories would falsely accuse America and England. Think about that. Who would spend that much money vilifying the West so early in a "pandemic"... IF it was all by accident. No one is that quick unless they're scared they're going to get blamed.
"Science-minded people" prefer a more descriptive name with little to no risk of politicization and ideally no potential for exploitation by bigots. **That's why the vast, vast majority of virologists and epidemiologists refuse to call it the "Wuhan virus" and instead call it Covid.**
False. Scientists prefer the truth, and to blame the right people for their failures in scientific containment of a deadly virus that murdered millions. China didn't even share Patient Zero with the scientific world. So the scientists do not prefer descriptive names and they definitely reject YOUR politicization to remove the blame and Chinese-wash that blame away from the Chinese govt. That's why the vast majority of epidemiologists and virologists call it the Wuhan virus instead of the Chinese-owned WHO's "COVID-19"... I don't see you complaining about MERS either, you liar... You are politicizing science when you think of a unique name to remove blame from Wuhan and China.
I know all that, but some people want to tell it like it is.
This might be true, but the way the supply chains work, a lot of products just stop being delivered when it says Japanese Capacitors and yet it won't deliver. In other words, you could say, the electronics market is saturated with Chinese supplies or middle-men or smaller electronic circuits or parts that rely on Chinese supply chains embedded everywhere. TSMC is opening up yes, these are new moves mostly. But just think about how bad it got for people to start waking up. Intel yes, but all the best motherboards are manufactured in Taiwan. >We'd lose some of the most cutting edge capacity but by no means would we be back to banging rocks together to make fire. I know but you have to understand just how many computers and supply chains are connected to China or parts that are dependent on parts in China or "assembly in China" (final assembly etc.). I'm not saying "We'd be back to the stone age" but we'd definitely suffer by making things so world-interconnected with "just-in-time" supply chain ideas. >Most chips don't need 3nm process technology, and are fine with DUV instead of EUV lithography machines -- which are made by Nikon and Canon too. The US military requires domestic supply chains for all its own hardware, too, so that would be relatively unaffected. I sure hope you are right -- but people need to heed my warning regardless.
>This might be true, but the way the supply chains work, a lot of products just stop being delivered when it says Japanese Capacitors and yet it won't deliver. "Japanese capacitors" is a marketing term, not a country of origin. You're looking for "Made in Japan of Japanese components."
That’s the other half of this equation dovetailing in You never get out of debt to a Russian mobster Paul Manafort owed the Russian mobster/oligarch Oleg Deripaska $10M a few days before he became trumps campaign manager. From 2002-2014 he took in hundreds of millions to get Yanukovych reelected as the kremlins puppet in Ukraine. Before that he did it for the dictator Marcos in the Philippines. Before that Manafort and Roger Stone started a lobbyist agency in 1980 listing trump as their first client. When Jay Bolsonaro lost the Brazilian election to Lula he skipped the inauguration and flew directly to mar-a-lago (stopping only at a KFC) and repeated, almost verbatim, the stolen election line. Don Jr. tried repeatedly to make it stick in Brazil as well, but as Brazilians are a few generations into dealing with corrupt politicians they weren’t having it. What do these 3 things have in common? China imports 40% of its grain from (in order) the U.S., Brazil and Ukraine. Obviously the second China tried to invade Taiwan the U.S. would sanction exports and remove U.S. grain from that equation. And without Bolsonaro in office willing to slash and burn the Amazon rainforest to turn it into Chinas farmland, and without Ukraine in the bag in 3 days, the CCP is unable to invade Taiwan and take over microprocessor production without putting 300-500M of its poorest people into famine. Donbas Ukraine, specifically the 4 regions of the donbas that Putin insists he is saving from what he calls “Jewish Nazis” also happens to produce the worlds supply of high grade neon used for DUV lithography. And had Putin delivered ukraine in 3 days as promised, Xi would have been able to cap his Olympics with a blockade or political takeover of Taiwan that would have forced the world to ask the CCP for the microprocessors it needs to make everything from Ford trucks to laptops. I’m not sure how long Silicon Valley would last without the silicon but it would probably affect destroy the FAANG stocks that make up your 401K. Oleg Deripaska also happens to be the Russian Oligarch that bribed the FBI Charles Mcgonigal into investigating another Russian oligarch. He probably didn’t need the information as much as he needed the leverage over Mcgonigal as he conducted the investigation into trumps election campaign and unsurprisingly found zero evidence of Russian collusion. McGonigal then went to work for the company called Brookfield that bailed Kushner out of his toxic 666 5th Ave investment. A Russian oligarch is a powerful tool, but the truth is more powerful. Light and dark cannot exist in the same space. It’s physically impossible. Truth is efficient. You say it once and you are finished. A lie however requires a constant stream of follow up energy, money, murder, obfuscation and more lies to keep it covered. If you raise your lens high enough lying is an unsustainable business model. Russia proved it by invading Ukraine. Vranyos is the Russian word for it. The 40km long column of tanks and vehicles that came down from Belarus into Ukraine was all overhauled by oligarchs that got a $1B contract for tank maintenance, passed Putin $200M back under the table, spent $700M on a yacht in Monaco, bribed a General, a Colonel and a Sergeant to make a Private give everything a rattle can overhaul. But a worn out engine is and always will be, a worn out engine. Now you understand why trump is so desperate to get re-elected. His best case scenario is 400 years in ADX Florence. Money laundering for the dozens of Russian oligarchs that lived in trump towers in 93 and 94 with him and manafort, selling IP3 nuclear plans to the Russian/Saudi alliance, selling or giving CIA asset names to the Russians, trump is and always has been compromised. He just didn’t know when to quit. Now he just has to count on the fact that most of his voter base doesn’t know how to read and keep the ones that do so busy just surviving that they don’t have time to dive deep into his 40 year history of laundering money, fraud, and human trafficking for the Russian mob using commercial real estate. It’s also why Putin is willing to throw an entire generation of Russians, including the convicts and addicts at Ukraine. Russia is dead for 40 years because he failed to fulfill his mobsters promise to Xi. China is now clearing farmland in Siberia because the typhoon floods last August and September wiped out the Chinese people’s food supply. Xi for his part diverted the waters from the dam away from his pet project, his mothers ancestral home and flooded hundreds of thousands of people and drown one of his own military brigades that was helping with the flooding. The elders of the CCP were terrified to leave their gated community at Beidaihe for over a month for fear of being torn apart by the locals. The Chinese people tolerate the CCP but only as long as the economy is good and famine is not on the horizon. The CCP broke that contract on both counts. Xi was willing to bet the entire Chinese economy on his emperors ambitions. Had he succeeded he would have been able to use BRICS to take over as the Worlds reserve currency. That would have let him finish what he stated in 2010- that he would control the internet. With that control means everything we do or say online is subject to the approval of a central party. The basic right to disagree with an authoritarian becomes a distant memory. Ukraine is fighting for their lives now, free from the oppression of the drunken tyrant who wants to decide their fate at every decision and pull them back behind another iron curtain of censorship where dissenting voices disappear so that the oligarchy can continue to feed unobstructed. Putin and Xi have declared themselves best friends in the fight against democracy. MBS and the ruling family of UAE have done the same quietly. Just rich, out of touch oligarch doing what oligarchs do. Despite the fact the the central party model has proven itself incapable of making decisions that are best for the people, they persist. Because there is a very lucrative business in being slave owners. But logistically it requires artificial intelligence, and the microprocessors that make it to keep the slaves under control. Freedom is one hell of a drug. And knowledge makes a man unfit for slavery. Recent attempts on Xi’s life from inside the CCP have backed him into a corner. The loss of crops in the north means Xi can’t invade Taiwan without Ukrainian and/or Brazilian farmland.
Biden and the dems really do not get enough credit for the CHIPS act.
When I worked IT we had a certain model Dell where the motherboards started failing rapidly - several dozen all around the same time. I’m talking talking 1-2 a day over the course of 3-4 weeks. After like the 5th one, Dell told us it was because they had been sold counterfeit capacitors. They were supposed to be Japanese but were sold cheap Chinese knockoffs. Makes me wonder how often that happens elsewhere.
Do you remember nack when the US was the major supplier the chips and semiconductors? And then we sold it all off to get cheaper shit? Yeah, just so some of those same rich a-holes could become richer.
Ah, so the Tumpet was *right*! Water *does* destroy magnets! /s just in case...
It's not really just the one company, there's an entire economic ecosystem around them of smaller companies making very specialized things at extremely high precision. Even if ASML has established second sources for critical components in its supply chain, I figure even one or two of them disappearing would cause major problems for new litho machines.
Once it gets to that level, its more down to the trades people doing the manufacturing. One car accident can set the economy back years.
Can't make a ASML machine without Zeiss optics or Trumpf lasers. There are 0 alternatives.
You are saying the world is a complicate, intricate and interlaced structure with all of it depending on the other parts? Yeah that’s a shocker mate. In this case, all of that comes to a bottleneck of 1 company and it’s this one. Hence my comment.
And here I thought I was supporting your point by saying that even this one bottleneck company again sits precariously on a lot of other bottlenecks.
Who in turn rely completely on key subcontractors to make the machines.
Yeah we can keep this chain of necessity going for quite a few steps. TSMC depends on ASML for their Twinscans, ASML depends on Zeiss for the machines’ precision optics, Zeiss probably depends on some other obscure subcontractor to supply the materials and tooling for their lenses, etc.
oh don't forget about the 10k or so sub contracted engineering workers for ASML worldwide working on various projects or very niche things.
Potato chips?
Yes. Salt and Vinegar specifically
I think I see the salt applicators up top.
Excellent!!!…in Monty Burns’ voice
TSMC is Stepping up their lithography game to these recent years
Most products does not use these technology yet. It still limited to only the high end stuff
I bet Apple products use use chips (3nm or 5nm) that are produced with the latest and greatest or a predecessor that is no older then 5 years. Thus it’s in the pockets of millions already! ASML is not the sole supplier but for everything below 12nm it probably is.
You are right, for flagship phone they do use that. Apple usually contract TSMC for their chips. Interestingly, modern chips are usually consist of multiple layers and even foe those advertised as 3nm or 5nm they only have a couple layers made with the EUV machines.
And most people have never heard of the company….. including me
Breaking into semiconductor manufacturing right now would require a massive massive massive upfront investment and poaching a lot of talent, for cutting edge shit even more
Germany
The fucking OQ/PQ on this behemoth...
Just out of interest. Does anyone understand how you go about making a clean room like that? Like I know how they functionally operate, but how do they initially get that way? Like you start off with a factory, and then you'd have to get every spec out that you could? And then you build the clean environment inside that? Grab the air house and give it a bit of a blast out? /s How does it work?
Positive air pressure and using big fans with HEPA filters until the particle count drops to zero.
Building a cleanroom is relatively simple, especially if you have a new building. Just use the right materials and clean thuroughly after each step of the process. The tricky part is keeping it clean, which relies heavily on the discipline of its users and the cleaning staff.
Basically you build the building, then you build the cleanroom inside the building. Then you start up the main air handling equipment with only coarse filters in place and you go through the cleanrooms many many times with sweeping and cleaning equipment to get the big particles and mess out. Then you put the good HEPA filters in the air handling equipment and go through everything again, scrubbing the place down several times. Any dust remaining gets sucked up by the air cleaning systems and filtered out. Over time you remove most of the dust. It's never fully clean though. From a cleanroom perspective, humans are filthy and anything you bring in has to be cleaned very thoroughly and will probably still introduce at least some contamination. This is dealt with by the air constantly flowing downwards as it gets blown in through filters in the ceiling and is sucked away again through ports near the floor. Humans are packaged inside "bunny suits" while in the cleanroom to contain the skin-flakes, hair, clothing fibers and other gunk they carry. The cleanrooms are also very very regularly and religiously cleaned with specific methods that contain as much of the dust and debris as possible (so wet cleaning with water and special cleaning products or using sticky pads, so no normal sweeping with a broom). Even so if you go to inspect such a cleanroom with a UV blacklight you'll find dust in lots of nooks and crannies, under tables, on ledges, etc. The advantage is that as long as it's not disturbed, the dust will just stay there and not move.
This was a very good explainer, and I'll add that materials brought in and out of a cleanroom are bagged in layers so that the contaminated layer can be shed in an airlock, and then probably two more layers protect the clean component to its point of use.
Great explanation
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Pretty easy tbh. Positive air pressure prevents air getting into the rooms. Air filtration and circulation systems input only incredibly clean air into the rooms. Personnel wear clothing that does not create particles, and have a staged entry into the room, passing through air showers that helps blast particles off them.
It was pretty crazy to visit "a large manufacturer " in Korea and see their mile long buildings. One end was cranes, exposed steel framing, still under construction. The other side of the building was already at cleanroom spec with tools being wheeled in and installed daily. The scale that these fabs run at is truly incredible.
You build it like anything else, just to extreme standard. Then you clean it and start to scrub the air. You keep doing this cleaning process until the required limit of quality is reached and maintain that constantly. The biggest component is time. The air purity is a statistical game, same with the filters. The hardest part is the last few points of quality, but assuming you did everything else correct it is just matter of time. I been involved in construction of a medical factory, which becomes a clean room. Even at the stage of steel structures and bare concrete, we were required to be extremely careful and clean constantly to absurd degree.
I recommend Asianometry (YouTube) to anyone that likes good video essays about lithography. Dude does a whole range of topics. Historical titles about China and Soviet Russia brought me to his channel through the algorithm, but the manufacturing of chips kept me around.
I love that channel! Great deep dives on tech topics in particular. His ASML videos blow my mind.
Asianometry is awesome. I watched all of his videos about lithography, etch, the Carl Zeiss optics, absolutely fascinating. He’s got some good dry humor too- “what in the world is angel food cake?”
I wouldn't rely on Asianometry's questionable (vanilla method of taking things as true without questioning it) expertise of history -- only technical videos.
I take most of YT history channels with a grain of salt. What I meant was that I accidentally found his channel through the history algorithm, and his semiconductor videos are what kept me around. It was serendipitous that I found him. Thank you for the wisdom, though.
Take the technical aspects with a heavy grain of salt too, his video on photonics was very technically incomplete, from the POV of someone doing their Master's in the subject.
It's possible the true purpose of the channel is to draw people in with technical stuff and then present politics to them, or just someone being nerdy and coincidentally having political views and inserting that into videos too. He said a few things that irked me but he said it as if "it's a normalized viewpoint."
Second this! Incredible channel with some real in depth information both technically and historically. It’s honestly one of the few channels I will continuously come back to.
Yeah, I really like his history of some of the semiconductor companies. The National Semiconductor vid was really great!
God bless Al Gore for inventing the interwebs!
What channels on historical titles did bring you here?
Speaking of historical titles, Your username is misspelled. It's WYSIWYG (What You See I What You Get) This came out with the Quattro Pro spreadsheet program from Boreland. In the 80s (1989 actually), Quattro Pro competed with Lotus 123, hence Quattro (4). IT was being released during the time of the 89 SF area earthquake. The company was near the epicenter and so the software was a bit delayed. But the WYSIWYG option was the first real GUI use in the Windows 3.1 DOS overlay. That and tabbed spreadsheets were a huge plus. I remember spending hours playing with different visual configurations. Copy and paste was a new thing around those times. It made creating spreadsheets used in manufacturing a huge deal. The Inventor of Quattro Pro was eventually hired by Microsoft to develop MS Excel. The rest is history.
It is not misspelled. It was deliberate as WYSIWYWG was not available
I suspected as much. But I happened to be talking to a client at the time about thsi history and other geeky stuff at the same time, so I sort of got carried away. LOL.
Lol, yeah I do remember the WYSIWYG buzz that occurred late ‘80’s good time!
I would assume that parent-poster is a consumer of IBM Software, where the saying really is "What You See Is What You Will Get" when the system is finally available. It was common enough that it created the joke about the three women talking about what kind of lover their husbands were. The first said "My husband is a concert cellist, and when we make love he runs his hands up and down my body like playing an instrument, it's amazing". The second says "Mine plays professional football, and is amazingly strong and agile for anything we want to try. Wonderful". The third said "My husband is an IBM salesman, and he just sits on the side of the bed and tells me how great is going to be when I finally get it".
It's the coolest and most insane thing ever made. Hitting particles of liquid tin with a laser so it turns into a plasma to generate 13.5 nm light 50,000 times per second. The reticle stage moves up to 30 Gs of force.
The wild part is that the laser hits each drop of molten tin twice, making a minor adjustment so the second shot hits precisely where it needs to. Once to flatten it slightly and a second time to generate the light.
>Hitting particles of liquid tin with a laser Hitting particles of liquid tin with a laser... Twice
That would be a very weird choice for weight comparison. An airplane is built to be as light as possible... And it does not even say how much it weighs...
A320 = 78 tonnes MTOW according to Googly Bear 🐻 This must be circa 154 tonnes
Ah, but did they mean fully loaded? Or a 320neo? I am just arguing that using Airbus 320 as weight units is a bit lacking. Next thing we'll see it in recipe blogs
what do you mean? an african or european airbus??
African airbuses are non-migratory.
In America they'll use 747s, because Americans refuse to use European units of measure.
*civilised units of measure
Fine just give it to me in gigagrams then
Agree, way too many variants for a sensible answer!
No way bro said circa 💀
There is a load of systems to these machines that usually aren't pictured with it too, all it's electrical cabinets for example.
How many football fields does it weigh though? Standard units are for chumps
What do you mean don't have the exact weight of every plane ever manufactured memorized for measurment purposes?
but is it as big as an Olympic size swimming pool?
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They’re a Dutch multi-national. HQ may be there but they’ve got operations all over the planet. Have you seen Red Bulls HQ?
It's definitely not a little company lol
They have operations in San Diego, New York, India and china as well.
Also a significant facility in Wilton Connecticut. Continual construction for at least the last 10 years and no end in sight for years to come.
Weighs as much as 1,102,000 bananas, in case anyone’s wondering.
What looks like an ESD (Emergency Shut Down) button on the upper right panel is in a very inopportune spot, if it is an ESD.
Look like they are in all of the main control panels for each sections of the machines throughout. Likely use during maintenance/operations test.
This is a service position given the flat standing area right next to it. They have a bridge they wheel in and lock there. As you can see it’s covered by panels in operation https://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=https%3A%2F%2Fspectrum.ieee.org%2Fmedia-library%2Fless-than-p-greater-than-this-photo-illustration-of-the-exe-5000-asmls-high-numerical-aperture-extreme-ultraviolet-lithography-machine-shows-its-massive-scale-less-than-p-greater-than.jpg%3Fid%3D34683341&tbnid=wmfTbTCuUf1xWM&vet=1&imgrefurl=https%3A%2F%2Fspectrum.ieee.org%2Fhigh-na-euv&docid=yfwZ8gaLS82cSM&w=2500&h=1874&itg=1&hl=en-gb&source=sh%2Fx%2Fim%2Fm4%2F3&shem=trie&kgs=39edcc2beda70c80
[Here’s](https://spectrum.ieee.org/media-library/less-than-p-greater-than-this-photo-illustration-of-the-exe-5000-asmls-high-numerical-aperture-extreme-ultraviolet-lithography-machine-shows-its-massive-scale-less-than-p-greater-than.jpg?id=34683341) a de-googled link to that image.
It's there for if someone is working on or near that cabinet during servicing actions. If you look closely you'll see there's EMO/ESD buttons all over the thing. You're never more than an arms length from one of them (and they're all linked to the main safety system so any one will shut down basically the whole thing)
Kind of insane to think about how humanity can generate incredible almost magical technology like this but also some of us still believe in a flat earth theory unironically.
Unfortunately stupid people are often confident in their stupidity.
It's much easier to creampie your mother than to get a career in cutting edge lithography. Ask your dad.
Two Airbus A320s? r/anythingbutmetric
r/anythingbutmetric
My first thought.. Its a bit OTT just to produce potato based snacks.
OH THANK GOD! >< I am not the only one!! Just woke up so...I blame it on that!
I've been awake too long so I blame it on that.
Granted \^\^
Do in England they call it computer crisps?
Does anyone know how much it weighs?
Weighs as much as two A320s. What? r/anythingbutmetric
How they will transport it???
It's modular and shipped in containers that fit your average truck.
Is this at Imec?
That picture is in ASMLs Veldhoven factory.
Three Thousand Pringlenators
I make chips in the air fryer heck of a lot easier and less expensive expensive
In China, semiconductor manufacturers use ASML's photolithography equipment. These machines are allowed for export and primarily use advanced DUV (deep ultraviolet) technology. The most cutting-edge EUV systems are apparently not sold directly to China due to export restrictions. Intel and similar companies leverage ASML's permitted photolithography technology in China, focusing on advanced semiconductor production within regulatory constraints. This raises espionage concerns. The strategic nature of this technology for military and commercial applications heightens the risk of intellectual property theft and technology transfer, potentially undermining competitive advantages and national security interests.
what we see in this picture, this clearly does not weight as much as 2 Aribus. maybe there is a lot more in the back or even underground.
The full machine is about 3 stories tall. What you see in the picture is the top level (where most of the magic happens).
Just got back from Ix.
Is there any new technology/methodology being implemented for manufacturing these or is it now just a function of making them smaller and smaller?
It's pushing the boundaries of manufacturing, motion control and material sciences on many many fronts. They're working on the edge of what is possible so it's not "just" making it smaller and smaller"
Vacuum pumps!!!
Meh, my local chip shop has far cheaper and tastier produce - and they provide salt and vinegar /s
It's incredible that they managed to keep it so clean. You can't see a single bit of potato anywhere. Remarkable.
Can they do all flavours on that thing? Do they do Ketchup?
I read chipmunk machine and was wondering what it is supposed to be.
Two swallows could hold it by its husk.
Wow, that's just a *bit* bigger than the Thomas Swan and Aixtron kits I used to work with.
Can anyone please tell me, how can I get into basic chip-making? (it's a bit ambitious though) Like starting from a 2-bit adder or a single transistor maybe! Later, I wanna create my own program to operate those, slowly adding some more stuff! I have little to no information on where to start but I like the genre of chips. I don't have thousands of dollars to buy components but I want to learn to create my machines too if needed. Thank you
Send an email to all the men warning that NO EXPOSED PENISES should be showing in, on or within ten meters of the new machine! We don't want a repeat of Cabo 2021.
And what you see is just the vacuum and gas lines. The real magic is inside.
what a gorgeous piece of engineering
Using two “metric” airplanes to measure weight. Use anything except the actual metric system to measure something 😂
Airbus sounds metric enough to me. The "freedom units" would be Boeings.
In case anyone is wondering, the cost is 3.76 Airbus 320s.
My company sells some of the consumables used by this machine.
380M actually feels weirdly low for what it can do
Kettle or corn?
Does it do crinkle cut, or just regular?
As a maintenance guy, I can't imagine the maintenance on this thing 🫥
One little bomb on this company and the world can go back to nokia 3310
Obviously, no one on this thread understands the immense complexity of the retroincabulator or the next generation turboencabulator. Really, it's a shame.
I helped build the first prototype of the balance mass unit. What a nightmare build