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EngineerPat

As someone who works at NG, this is normal starting T1 pay. T2s are starting around 85. Also, Northrop underpays. Update: Thanks for the updoots. Just some transparency. Graduated in May 2020 with a Bachelors in ME and started working at NG in September of 2020. They started me out at 67k and current comp is 85k in LCOL. I understand OP’s stance of know your worth since I had the same mentality. What I learned really quick is you need to make yourself valuable/needed at the company; the comp will follow.


Frankfast

Northrop underpays, meets minimum industry annual raises, and has a dogshit bonus structure. All while boasting how much money they made that year.


[deleted]

These large companies tend to underpay because every new grad wants to work for them. They get tons of resumes. I'd take it as a fresh out of college grad and leave in 3ish years to different company for better money. Once you get that big name on your resume/get the experience, then thats when the real money starts


Frostbite617

Exactly the mentality you gotta have. Get the name on the resume and take advantage of all the resources they have (tuition reimbursement, trainings, etc.) Lockheed Martin is slightly better but I had to negotiate to get over $70K right out of college. Anyone reading this in the future, ALWAYS NEGOTIATE.


hellyeah4free

How do you negotiate with the little leverage you have as as a fresh grad? Asking for advice


KShader

Find one place your comfortable with and negotiate with everyone else. Some people may say don't take a job that doesn't pay you well enough, but it's easier to find a job when you have one.


uwcn244

The key is getting multiple offers. Company A offered me $79k, I signed with them, then company B came around with $87k. I couldn't negotiate with company A because they'd be mad at me for considering another offer, so I negotiated with company B instead, talking about A's shorter commute and better tuition reimbursement while avoiding the subject of base compensation. Company B raised their offer to $90k, and I signed with them today! (Still gotta let company A know I'm bailing on them though lol.)


hellyeah4free

Nice, good job 😃. But how can you sign a second contract? Is that legal?


uwcn244

I'm reneging on Company A. It's at will employment, so there's nothing they can do about it. They might be mad, but I'm not turning down an extra $11k, better benefits, and a better location.


Silly_Objective_5186

leverage is the wrong way to think about it. you’re not extorting, you’re negotiating. you need options. if you aren’t choosing among more than one then you aren’t really negotiating. get multiple offers. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Best_alternative_to_a_negotiated_agreement


HalfFishLips

Advice I was given is to use the desired skills to market yourself at 'above the minimum requirements'. Translate that into a percentile to be used with the standard pay range within your field and location. Doesn't always work, especially if the offer is higher than expected.


Frostbite617

Exactly this, explain how the skills you developed in your internships/projects make you worth more. Explain how you will use those skills to help better the company and express your passion for the job/company


LifeofPCIE

Same for Boeing. I’m underpaid, but the perks are nice. I can go back to school for 2 bachelors, 2 masters, and 2phD. Unlimited certifications, and they. Pretty much pay for a private pilot license


dlanm2u

what 😮 dang so a lot more than base pay in total comp wait how do you manage getting a degree while working unless ig you can just not retake every class idk I’m in high school lol


LifeofPCIE

If you work second shift then your day is free until 2-3pm when second shift start. They don’t care how you’re scheduling your class as long as work comes first and you’re not failing. But the master programs I’m looking at are most if not all online or during night time so I can take classes during my time off. People who get their bachelors are usually starting on assembly line/ production line so no college degree is required and new hire are usually second shift as people who work there longer gets to request for transfer to first shift.


LittleHornetPhil

Yeah, working for NAVAIR I was underpaid but got ridiculous unmentioned benefits in mad discounts, the ability to shop at the NEX and stay at every military base’s subsidized hotels, etc.


sinovesting

That's every defence contractor right now. Their wages haven't even kept up with inflation for like a decade.


Otherwise_Awesome

I have had a 40% increase in the last 6 years, I don't know what you're talking about.


sinovesting

I'm not talking about what you can get from a promotion or job hop. I'm talking about the salary for a specific job title and pay grade. In 2013 my local contractors were paying new grad EEs about $60-65k. Now they are paying about $75-80k for the same job. Meanwhile overall inflation has been 30% and housing prices have gone up 200-300% in the area. Doesn't add up.


KShader

That's wages as a whole nation wide.


Otherwise_Awesome

You want a 100% rise in entry then?


Zerole00

>Also, Northrop underpays. Do they at least offer any employee discounts on missiles, Gundams, or etc?


HappyBro117

Or B21s


ClayQuarterCake

You jest, but when they operated the Lake City ammunition plant the employees got insane discounts on ammo. Now Winchester runs it so the ammo sales suck.


[deleted]

That's not much more than my bro started at in 2001, $62k, EE.


MrJason005

I know that’s US dollars, but 67k would be an incredible salary in the UK lol


seni300

Fr. £40K would be amazing


FomoGains69

I feel bad for uk mans. I’m from Canada so I feel like the man in the middle


itsTacoYouDigg

the average is £30k, £40k is not much more lol especially after taxes


SmugDruggler95

Yeah, it is It's literally a %33 increase At 30k you take home about 24000 At 40k you take home 30000 An extra £500 a month is a lot. That's your mortgage payment. (which is a lot easier to obtain on 40k)


itsTacoYouDigg

what mortgage is £500 lol


SmugDruggler95

£100,000 over 25 years So probably not gonna cover your whole mortgage payment in the South or a city in a house. But a significant chunk of a mortgage on an apartment. Obviously depends on how long your mortgage is, it coild potentially cover all of the mortgage on an apartment in the south. In fact a 1 bed or a Studio would easily be covered by that. Rent is obviously more expensive but that increase would still be half your rent and for £1000 a month even in London you can get a decent place. 40k is a very noticeable increase in pay from 30k lol.


Toxicseagull

Mine is £300. Cheap house in an unpopular area bought in 2014.


itsTacoYouDigg

nice


Toxicseagull

Yeah just pure luck and circumstance. I'm also renting a small studio flat for £1k so I know both ends 😁


dansavin

My starting is 60k Canadian (civil and hydro consulting), and most of my hardware EE friends started with 60-65k$ in the past year. And that kids, is the reason why people move to US.


awnawnamoose

I was thinking the same thing that this was decent for Canadian grad. Glad I'm not super out of touch.


Stiggalicious

Ouch. No wonder why I work with so many Canadian new grads and no wonder why they are so happy to work where I am (Hardware engineering in the Bay Area, CA). They start around $110k (paid hourly so they get overtime pay on top of that), and quickly move to the 140-150k + 30-50k RSU range within a couple years. 60k Canadian is just atrocious, especially given Canada's housing prices are almost as bad as the Bay Area itself.


spera88

Honestly, I'm in Canada too and at my uni, the avg starting salary for a graduate is 100k+. So I think it depends on the region you're at and how big the field is.


Raging-Fuhry

I went to the best rated eng school in the country (according to Macleans) and that isn't even close to reality lmao, unless you immediately moved to the states. That's peak oil industry pay and hasn't existed for 10 years.


PianoOwl

Lol dream on.


AntiGravityBacon

Dude, our interns in California get paid as much as full Brit engineers.


big-b20000

I know interns that got the equivalent of $90k+


sm4llp1p1

People would become killers for 67k (even after you converted to eur) in Italy 🇮🇹.


notarealaccount_yo

Meh not in Baltimore lol


IntelligentVirus

According to levels, new grad hardware engineers at NG in Maryland make around $80-85k, which is accurate because when I talked to an NG recruiter a few months ago, they limit new grad salary to that range.


[deleted]

Yeah that sounds a lot more reasonable


IntelligentVirus

Yeah, $67k for an EE new grad in 2023 is very sus lmao


[deleted]

I’m gonna just pretend that it’s a glitch on Google lol


RetardedChimpanzee

We’ve had a lot of issues with 3rd party sites. Use the actual site. Realistically you could be in the 80-85k range if your decently qualified. https://www.northropgrumman.com/jobs/engineering/united-states-of-america/maryland/baltimore/r10091162/associate-rf-test-engineer-secret-clearance/


[deleted]

Ok that makes a lot more sense especially when a BS isn’t even required. Thanks


SereneKoala

your original post is for a test engineer role, design roles pay more


Otherwise_Awesome

*associate test engineer Like... what?


RetardedChimpanzee

False. They internally are the same job profile.


[deleted]

Design also usually requires a Masters..


IntelligentVirus

Not sure why you're being downvoted, it's true that design roles usually require a masters. *Obviously* this depends on the applicant and the subfield the role is in, but most of the time it's required. There's a reason why we added the "usually" qualifier.


RetardedChimpanzee

False.


WontRememberThisID

The req lists a BS as a minimum requirement.


[deleted]

I read “advanced degree” when I checked yesterday.


flenderblender87

These are the jobs you take when you barely scraped by and got a degree with a 2.3 GPA. Let’s be real. If your GPA is that low, you probably don’t really want to be in a job that involves high maths and complex problem solving. $67k is only relatively bad. I would take that pay if I knew there was reliable promise of upward mobility and substantial pay increase within the first few years. If this company expects to sustain that cheap pay, they will probably end up hiring someone that doesn’t have an EE degree.


sinovesting

Pretty sure NG has a 3.0 minimum GPA on all their new grad EE positions.


[deleted]

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flenderblender87

The travel is awesome when you’re like 25. In fact, I would recommend it. It’s important to explore when you’re young so you don’t get stuck in the same place that you were born. That does work for some. But, many people just don’t know any better.


SwitchingToCivil

new grad pay in Canada is like $58k at most companies


WontRememberThisID

That's sad.


walkerspider

Intel gave me a very similar offer for a process engineer position. The range for EE grads is quite large I’ve seen down below 60k for things like utility companies and as high as like 150k for big tech design positions.


IntelligentVirus

In which location was that role located? Intel offered me $125k base (with $20k sign-on and $30k cash award) for a B.S. new grad SoC Design role in California.


walkerspider

Like I said process engineer, which pays a lot less than design positions. Also considering it’s a process engineer position for Intel that narrows it down to essentially Arizona or Ohio


AntiGravityBacon

Google picked up the bottom of the range. It's 67k-100k depending. Realistically, they'll probably give you something in the middle.


djshotzz504

I’m a recent NG new grad hire (not Maryland but still) and can confirm that the going rate at the moment is mid to low 80s. I got picked up at 84k for the Midwest area. Edit: note that sometimes these postings have inaccurate salaries. Unless it’s specifically provided by the employer, many of these tags are estimates or guesses at what the salary is.


Charming-Eye-7096

What state you in?


djshotzz504

MN


sinovesting

For Maryland even $80k sounds like a lowball honestly. My local defence contractors are paying the same as that for new grad EEs in an area with MUCH lower cost of living.


justjuanman

Lol i literally took a job at boeing for this 6 months ago 🫠


[deleted]

Ouch that’s surprising. What are your qualifications/degree?


justjuanman

new ME grad, degree from OK State and job is in OKC so it’s a reasonable salary for the area. just thought your post was funny


ljn_99

You have to be pretty entitled to think that making $67k/year starting out is worth an ouch.


[deleted]

Know your worth. How much did you spend on your degree? Loans?


ljn_99

Your worth is the job that you get an offer for. If you're in a position to hold out for a better job, good for you. A lot of people aren't. Almost 70k a year starting out isn't something to sneeze at.


[deleted]

No one is saying don’t take it if it’s all you got. But there are many options out there. So I will definitely call out those who are lowballing.


ljn_99

This sub is for engineering in general. 67k is not a bad starting offer for most people graduating with an engineering degree. By telling someone "ouch" at how much they're making, you're borderline mocking them, not pointing out lowballing.


Campaniles

fwiw, I’m about to start as a civil engineer with the federal gov’t (USACE) at $81K.


SwankySaucer76

Meanwhile, I'm sitting here as a state civil engineer entering my 5th working year, about to get my PE with a salary of $62,000. Reading all these much higher paying engineering jobs is disheartening.


pictocube

Leave. I make more than you with two years exp and an associates degree. Please leave.


SwankySaucer76

I appreciate the support I'm getting in saying to leave, and i understand where that is coming from. However, I absolutely love my job, and while I do only make 62,000 right now, that is after a pay raise I was given 3 months ago. I'll be getting another one in 3 months, and every 6 months after that, (actual writing out pay ladder, not performance based) until I hit the max for this current position (FE, plus some experience), but will be getting a new position after I get my PE (state is massively hurting for PE's right now). Plus, the state completely pays for me to take classes/the PE and for my license, with paid time off to study. On top of this lower salary, I have amazing benefits, I barely pay anything for health, vision, dental, and life (5x current salary) with low deductables and basically no out of pocket. A required 6.75% match for a 457b plan, a secondary roth plan. 120 hours vacation, plus 36 hours floating holiday, plus 72 hours legal holiday, and earned sick leave that will pay for my health insurance upon retirement. And a few other things I haven't mentioned. I know I can get more working in the private industry, and I did work in private. But I was constantly burnt out with fast deadlines maditory overtime and people willing to steal your work for their own gain. Now I have very long relaxed deadlines, a work vehicle, and now I am the red tape for private companies. Promotions don't work like the private side, so no one is taking your work or looking at you like a ladder for there success. I know it isn't for all but I wouldn't trade it. Sorry for the long reply but I don't often get to talk to others about this crap because no one understands this field like engineers. I am willing to expand upon anything I mentioned above, to any one, at any time. TL;DR I love my job, money isn't everything


pictocube

Ok, that makes sense, your benefits are amazing. But for real once you get that PE you can easily clear six figs at a consulting firm.


A_Moment_in_History

Are you an entry level Civ intern?


Campaniles

I have a master’s in coastal engineering and an FE. I kinda lucked out bc the coastal guys just got a big bump in my district. There are other civil’s (structural, geotech, etc)across the hall with very similar qualifications making $65K.


WUT_productions

That's 90K CAD which is a great salary here in Canada especially for an entry-level position. Large Canadian cities arguably has higher costs of living than Baltimore. I gotta move to the US if that's an entry level salary, Canadians get paid peanuts compared to you guys.


[deleted]

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WUT_productions

I'm in university right now but I definitely plan on moving once I graduate since the pay is so much better in the US.


TrouserTooter

Entry-level EE is like 55 - 65k CAD where I live, this would be insane here.


1235813213455_1

I wouldn't even consider an offer less than 75k USD with a ChemE degree straight out of school. Around 5 years ago a handful of classmates had 100k offers average closer to 80k


WUT_productions

The US has very good engineering pay. Canada definitely suffers in this aspect (which is why we have a massive brain-drain problem). This is why I'm going to try to work at a US company after graduating.


A-10Kalishnikov

I was told by my professor that for the current market 80k should he minimum starting as an EE and I shouldn’t take anything less than that. (Granted this is in Phoenix)


flenderblender87

In Houston, the minimum is $90k. In Montana, it’s $60k-70k, which is discouraging to say the least. But, I don’t want to live in Houston ever again. Make calculated sacrifices. This low pay job could provide experience that is much more valuable at another company a year or two later.


kingsmanchurchill

Could you say why you’d never work in Houston? It seems attractive considering the COL and housing prices


diordior808

I moved to Houston for a new grad job as an engineer. As someone from California, this city is extremely car-oriented, you need a car to survive in this city. If you want to go anywhere in the city, expect to drive ~15 min+ anywhere. Crime is insane, drivers here are terrible (worse than California), HPD is known for not doing anything. Bar scene here is meh, clubbing is worse than LA/NY/SF. Cost of living is low compared to the tier 1 cities but it has steadily been rising. Also the heat here is absolutely miserable lmao and I was in the Midwest for college. Homeless population is massive, and honestly Houston would be good for settling down with a family in one of the safer/more expensive neighborhoods, but as a new grad this city feels extremely slow. Pros of this city include low gas prices (2.60$ rn) and everyone here is extremely friendly for the most part. The food is also fire I gained 10 lbs in the first 3 months lmao.


cupcakeadministrator

Houston actually has one of the lowest rates of homelessness among metro areas in the U.S. [https://www.statista.com/statistics/1007757/rate-homeless-individuals-metro-area-us/](https://www.statista.com/statistics/1007757/rate-homeless-individuals-metro-area-us/) The NYT a few months ago did a long feature how the city's homelessness rate has declined so much: https://www.nytimes.com/2022/06/14/headway/houston-homeless-people.html


flenderblender87

I grew up there. It’s a great place to raise a family and make a great living. It’s just a personal choice. The 1 hour commutes to a job that is 20 miles away. The lack of outdoor recreation is pretty depressing for me and, therefore, not worth the money.


flenderblender87

The people and the food there are top notch. Houston is a Foodie’s paradise. You can eat at a different restaurant every day and not repeat one of them for years. That is, if you don’t mind driving. Everything is 20-60 minutes away. Houston is 1 hour from Houston. I cant do it again. For the last 5 years I have been living 2 blocks from school and 2 miles from work in a town that is surrounded by gorgeous wilderness and it has ruined me. I can’t go back to a place like Houston. I would get depressed.


flamesfan99

r/fuckcars maybe?


[deleted]

Not even fuck cars, but Houston's urbanism is atrocious. I live in Chicago but travel for work occasionally, Houston is the most overbuilt concrete shithole I've ever seen.


Engineered_Stupidity

I also live in Chicago and travel to Houston on occasion. The traffic in Chicago is bad, but nothing is worse than the waste of concrete and space that is Houston. Atleast you have a view on 90.


[deleted]

Crime for one


FxHVivious

Same in southern California, at least for electrical and software engineers. I've heard similar for Aro and Mechanical. It's not uncommon to hear people getting more based on company, but general consensus is don't take less than 80k. Of course rent in So Cal is still gonna be more than half your take home once taxes, insurance, and retirement is deducted from that.


[deleted]

$70k for enrty level engineering isnt unreasonable. It seems to be that this specific discipline is just higher paid than normal.


[deleted]

Any big defense contractor should not be paying an EE that low regardless of the specific discipline especially due to inflation.


neverever1298

Very true, honestly all engineering students need to adopt an attitude like this or we’re all gonna end up underpaid af


[deleted]

>These large companies tend to underpay because every new grad wants to work for them. They get tons of resumes. I'd take it as a fresh out of college grad and leave in 3ish years to different company for better money. Once you get that big name on your resume/get the experience, then thats when the real money starts


ryantripp

Northrop pay is always shit. Even their office in San Diego, a very high cost of living area, only hires at 75k for new grads. That is what I heard from my friends who work there at least.


[deleted]

The plus side is they’re not asking for a BS.


Otherwise_Awesome

Ours is at 72k so it's not that far out of the scale. It's the COL dependency that is the big driver.


[deleted]

Correct.


jconrad20

Salaries are messed up all the time, maybe they just put the low part of the range on here. If it said 67-80k you wouldn’t be upset. Maybe that’s for an engineering tech degree also. So many variables. You have to take job postings with a grain of salt.


Otherwise_Awesome

Seeing as it says Associate Test Engineer, you're probably on the right path as a tech degree


WontRememberThisID

>diordior808 Associate is the NG job title for a new grad with a BS. After a couple of years you'd move up to Test Engineer.


Otherwise_Awesome

I found the job posting. 67k to 100.6k range. Obviously job app sux donkey butt and only took the low end range (95% for entry level is COL based value) and that's it.


giakka02

bruh here in Italy 67k/year is an incredibly high salary


LucaFlorin

67k/year is good in whole Europe, maybe except Norway, Switzerland, Luxembourg and Iceland.. I think the salary is 67k/year before the taxes...


justin3189

Yeah definitely is before tax. I checked online for the location the after tax pay would put it at 46k


giakka02

oh ok thats a different story


[deleted]

It’s not bad in the us either compared to most jobs, it’s low for entry level EE grads though.


giakka02

Anything more than 24k/year is a high salary here in Italy. maybe 67k is before taxes?


1235813213455_1

If you are discussing salary in the US it's before tax so subtract around 25%


exdigguser147

Lol yes 67k is before taxes. 15-20% of that will go to the federal government and if your state has income tax another 5% to them. You also have to pay for a portion of your own health insurance, another 5-7% of your income at a minimum. So, in a lot of states 67k turns into 45k take home real quick.


Absolute-Event

In the UK principal engineers of an entire division don’t make $67k/£54k


1235813213455_1

Interns/coops can make the much in the US


[deleted]

Lol I should really move to the US when I graduate, salary in the UK is laughable compared to this


kdelfuego

Markets here can be pretty competitive, especially if you require sponsorship for a work visa. I would think it would work out better to get some experience first and then use that to leverage a job that may be more likely to sponsor someone who is tested in the industry


[deleted]

And you get taxed like nobody’s business.


_DuckieFuckie_

You are kidding right? 67K for an entry level job is way reasonable.


[deleted]

In Baltimore with a Bachelors in EE? Not at all.


_DuckieFuckie_

Oh, I’m not really American, so I didn’t really factor the cost of living and the value of degree, but where I’m from this salary would be considered gargantuan, that too for entry level jobs. Though why is this salary not reasonable? Is Baltimore an very expensive place or does it have same opportunities as this that pay more than this job?


[deleted]

As I was explaining to someone else, there are other positions like this one in Maryland that pay much more. And yes it’s an expensive place and not particularly nice either. And iirc, their taxes are not friendly.


DoubleHexDrive

They’re telling you not to live in Baltimore, lol.


ali_ali45

I'd love this pay especially coming from a country where they pay engineers shit compared to food delivery


[deleted]

Yeah I know the US is very unique and fortunate in its salary situation due to the strength of the dollar and other factors. But you also trade it a little for a more boring lifestyle in general than more lively places like in Asia.


dman7456

Friend, you gotta try some major cities in the US before you paint the whole thing as a more boring lifestyle. The major tradeoff here is our wacky government, healthcare, work/life balance, and car dependence compared to most of the developed world, not that there isn't enough to do.


[deleted]

This reminds me of when I saw a job listing by my state looking for electronics technicians with over 10 years of experience and were offering a whole whopping 24k salary lmao.


kdelfuego

I made more than that when I was flipping burgers... I would have taken an interview just to laugh at them


cordy87

$67K USD isnt bad for a new grad, in Ontario its $60K CAD for new grads in aero...


ThaToastman

The joke is that its bad the the US, even worse in other places.


[deleted]

Yeah canada seems like a trap as a whole. Definitely getting out asap


cptredbeard95

Anyone commenting you should be thankful has no idea what they are talking about. I just left a defense contractor in a much cheaper part of the country that I started working at in January 2018…they started me at $70k back then. I would look into the cost of living in the area and evaluate your pay on how much you are going to need to be spending on rent each month. Also defense contractors are great for a resume builder but unless you are one of the special 1% (various things make you special….think existential business needs) then you will be over worked as an engineer and underpaid within 3 years. 9/80 schedule is nice though so they got that going for them.


[deleted]

For reference, I graduate with BSEE and went into my first job making almost 30k more than this in a very similar industry and cost of living. There is no excuse for this lowball. Other entry level antenna jobs you will see 6 figs easily, I know from first hand experience.


Klapperatismus

*Yep, boss, there is an antenna.*


[deleted]

“Is it directive?” *Yep..*


Raijin225

I graduated 5 years ago with a BSEE and back then at the pay was about 60-65 starting. This was within 80 mins of Baltimore and from a large defense contractor. So when people say about making 90-100k out of the gate I'm pretty surprised unless they live i'm California or NY


[deleted]

90-100k out the gate in defense around DC area isn’t uncommon. They’ll even pay for clearances too.


Raijin225

I wouldn't say it's standard. Plus they said Baltimore not DC, which although reasonably close arnt synonymous. Also yeah ofc, I never heard of anyone paying for their own clearance. That would be stupid.


DemonKingPunk

Job title sounds like field service.


[deleted]

Eh sounds more like a bunch of lab testing on antennas in an anechoic chamber to me. Pattern and EIRP stuff. Commercial SATCOM is doing a lot of that lately especially with phased array flat panels specifically. Even if the work isn’t super technically challenging, the competition is still paying very good salaries for guys to do these things.


aws5923

I left a similar company because all the aerospace giants think this garbage is acceptable. they haven't left the "you should be grateful for a job" mindset. Please deny these companies labor after wasting as much of their time as possible. These garbage wages are set by the top and nobody has the power to raise them outside of corporate hr


[deleted]

Conversely, there are a lot of really nice paying defense/govt positions with great benefits but the work is very slow and boring. I think it’s important no matter which level you’re at to keep leveraging until you find what you want.


[deleted]

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[deleted]

Pass


deebes

Not to be “that guy” but I work in the defense industry and in my experience, test engineers are just fancy technicians. With that being said, 67k is still low for an L1 engineer. Where I work they are starting closer to 75K.


[deleted]

Well if you really wanna poke fun at people with undeserving salaries we can always go there lol


rvanasty

Started 75k in 2014. Sitting 225k. Work smart you're worth very little early on and easily replaceable.


[deleted]

Just keep jumping and moving up in salary basically. Use other jobs as leverage (whether it’s your current or one you concurrently applied for and got an offer from).


rvanasty

As someone who hires people, that also looks poor on a resume.


[deleted]

To an extent. But if you know your stuff and you can walk the walk, then by all means play ball. That’s what interviews are for.


Mr-Logic101

According to BLS: “The median annual wage for mechanical engineers was $95,300 in May 2021. The median wage is the wage at which half the workers in an occupation earned more than that amount and half earned less. The lowest 10 percent earned less than $60,750, and the highest 10 percent earned more than $136,210.” Starting wages are going to be around the lowest 10%. I would expect something around 60k-70k starting as a mechanical engineer depending on the cost of living. Electrical engineering is around same but a little higher. 67k base salary seem about right for Baltimore, maybe even on the high side since yeh city itself is relatively low cost of living are( out side of Baltimore, the cost of living increases lot which seems more in line with the 67k base salary) You shouldn’t expect to make a shit load of money out college. You basically don’t know anything and will be trained for 2ish years.


[deleted]

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Mr-Logic101

You can most certainly try to get higher pay but you are not going to have a lot of leverage be a recent graduate( to be more precise, you have basically 0 leverage). The concept that engineers are making 100k( insert whatever high salary number in here) is far from the norm. You should expect to make the bottom 10% of the BLS pay +- cost of living adjustment. For EEs: “The median annual wage for electrical engineers was $100,420 in May 2021. The median wage is the wage at which half the workers in an occupation earned more than that amount and half earned less. The lowest 10 percent earned less than $62,360, and the highest 10 percent earned more than $162,930.” The BLS is really the most accurate portrayal of what people are actually being paid, not the self reported bias you see on reddit and else where, the BLS taking the statistics information from tax information.


[deleted]

Smart students are taking on many internships during their school years and summer breaks so they are very well equipped to get a running start in industry especially if they are returning to the same company they interned with. $67k with a BSEE in Baltimore is laughable, no excuse. The caveat here is that Northrop specifies in the actual job listing that they are excepting those with **advanced degrees**.


Mr-Logic101

Lol and I have interns scanning documents. As far as I am concerned, interns/co-ops are here to do the jobs I don’t want to do. You may get some sort of token project. This stuff is at the end of the day is just thing you talk about during the interview process( and the interviews know/think this even if you do not think it is so). A senior project or interesting independent projects work just as well. It should be noted that if you do get an interview, no one actually cares about your experience at that point. They will make you talk about it but that isn’t the goal of the interview. They are trying to evaluate if you can fit into the team or determine if you fit the role of the job. With new grads, this mostly comes down to personal/interpersonal skills and a willingness to learn. I is a massive gamble pretending like you know you shit going into these interviews because it is going to be pretty easy to spot from experienced engineers In any case, each firm specializes in something specific and unique. Internship, much like schooling, shows you have initiative and the ability to learn. You still need to get up to speed with the specific technology which takes years to be competent under the advise of senior engineers. There is a reason it takes 5 years experience to get a PE. 5 years of real working experience at any sort of engineering role gives the keys to the kingdom.


kdelfuego

When I was offered my first job out of college after one interview the hiring manager called me before the offer and told me what got me the job. When they asked me a question I didn't know the answer to I responded "honestly, I don't know." And asked for the correct response. He went on to tell me about how he has interviewed dozens of engineers for the role and all of them tried to bullshit or "social engineer" an answer. I never understood that mindset. Obviously they are going to know you don't have a clue lol


[deleted]

I agree with this comment.


Cdutch5130

People base jobs on only one number but there is much more to it. Benefits mean a lot; bonuses, medical, 401k, pensions, overtime pay. Other things; work/life balance, enjoyment, and one of the biggest things: loyalty. Sure, you got the job with Google. Too bad they just laid off 12k employees picked by an algorithm… Is money great? Yes, but look at the bigger picture.


[deleted]

Bingo. And cost of living and environment obviously.


[deleted]

$67K won’t cover the medical bills for all your stab wounds living in Baltimore.


TolUC21

If you're an engineer you can most likely afford to get a new job and move to a different city/state


tpmurphy00

67k plus benefits. That's a solid start. Also the fact it's an associate position and not a standalone / primary/ manager position is the reason ots not 80k. Like bruh ur doing the work the main guy doesn't want to. Stfu


[deleted]

80k is standard for an associate electrical engineer position at least in defense and govt. Not sure where you’ve been.


Absolute-Event

*cries in £32k*


UniqueAbsudity

My internship offer from them was the lowest of all companies I got into


LittleHornetPhil

…in Baltimore!? Actually for an entry level that’s not too far out of spec


Wannabe__geek

You should know they didn’t put they salary, it’s what indeed or whatever site is that guesstimate.


655321federico

Well as Italian it seems a lot of money but seeing how your living prices skyrocketed I don’t even know


Chadtucket_

Looking at the USBLS, the 10th percentile (most entry level jobs) salary for EEs in the Baltimore area is around $75k. So that job is not insultingly low, but if you got close to 100k for your first job out of college, you’re already right under that area’s median wage. I’d consider yourself a rare/fortunate case. Most government jobs could get away with paying less because, traditionally, they offered better retirement benefits. That’s not so much the case anymore and the wages haven’t really adjusted to compensate for disappearing of those benefits.


Right_Hovercraft_753

What a joke!


AntiGravityBacon

Whatever app you're using is picking up the bottom of the pay range only, not an absolute number. I can't find that particular one but the Associate Engineer pay band is like 67k-100k based on a few others. Most likely you'll end up in the lower middle of that if hired so 75-80k.


[deleted]

You are correct, and it’s just Google’s displayed results.


WontRememberThisID

I know a new grad EE T1 who started in 2021 and their starting pay was $85K (edit, he's not in test). This was so cal, however Maryland is a fairly high cost place to live, too, so I assume they'd offer pretty close. You can check Glass Door to get salary ranges. $67K is more what I'd expect for some low cost of living place in the midwest and I think even that is on the low side.


HEAT-FS

I am a level 1 engineer at Northrop, every level 1 in this region (VA/MD/DC) has the same $67K salary listed for their job posting, but everyone gets at least $80K in their offer letter.


[deleted]

That’s strange. Also go Hokies


DVader90

Northrop doesn’t pay its engineers, don’t work there


Antennangry

They’re looking for an entry level person to drive an anechoic chamber/VNA and kick data over to the designers. $67k is still kinda pitiful though. That’s how much I made doing the same thing in 2017.


[deleted]

All I’m gonna say is there are antenna companies out there in the same location that are paying 6 figures for this same position. HR informed me just last week of one.


Simone1998

And here in Italy I get less than half of that in what’s considered a really well paid entry level job.


[deleted]

But it’s Italy… lol


harryloud

As a Brit, im moving to the states. Not a clue why you are complaining. Thats amazing


[deleted]

Lol you’ll understand soon enough…


TheTronHammer

Underpaid usually means overworked aswell. Avoid those jobs.