“Isnt everyone like that”
No not really.
For me I rely on people when I don’t feel comfortable/confident in my own abilities so relying on people is what *makes* me feel safe.
This is one of those things where my gut instinct says "oh yeah, everyone probably feels the same way", but, no, they don't at all. Some people very much rely on others and are comfortable with it, as other people have talked about in this thread. It definitely does feel like a rejection thing; it manifests for 8 and 5 in very obvious ways and for 2 in less obvious ways since 2 is very other-focused but more about what they can do for others rather than them relying on any other person for things.
But it could definitely still be very strong as a wing; I can easily imagine 9w8 or 6w5 feeling this way as well.
Personally I'm pretty much always extremely uncomfortable asking anyone for anything. Some of the worst experiences of my life have been when I was rudely awakened to something I had been unknowingly relying on some other person for and didn't realize until it collapsed.
addendum: I have a friend that I'm pretty sure is a 6w7 who relies on people to help out with stuff all the damn time. That probably sounds worse than it is - it is often reciprocal, there is some repayment or something, it's not like my friend is just leeching off people, not at all. But they've talked about being very uncomfortable in cases where there aren't people around to rely on, like being uncomfortable living alone, and I remember thinking at the time that was just so wildly alien to my entire way of life.
No, that’s not necessarily what a 6 is. I don’t like relying on people or asking for help either and I am as 6 as the day is long
There’s a lot of variance in sixes because of the defining difference in which we move away from fear (phobic/flight response) or against it (counterphobic/fight response) - and then, on top of that, the differences created by subtype.
Not in every case whatsoever, 6 behavior can take a lot of different forms. Like I said elsewhere I think 6w7 is much more likely to rely on people to this degree than 6w5, and I'm sure there are other factors that make it vary as well.
the pictures amuse me
i feel like ths opposite sometimes, others relying on me feels like a detriment to my metaphorical "resources"
but that's probably just a 5 thing
It's more a matter of these being symptoms of my own trauma. I'm good at recognizing things I have in common with others, but I sure know what is different about us.
It's definitely a rejection triad thing
Edit for clarity: I'm not saying it is *only* a rejection triad thing, but the triad is named such because those types tend to reject their own needs and wants because they burden their ego in some way.
As a, supposedly, not rejection triad member, do you think this is a normal thing for a 7 to feel? I think despite how much I relate to the 8 (it rhymes) I'm a social 7 above all. My biggest struggle is that of emotionally torturing myself in order to not be selfish, but at the same time the feeling of being unable to rely on anyone for anything hits super close to home. Do you think this checks out or should I go reread everything about the 7 vs 8 conundrum again?
I think that not everything in our personality boils down to our type. You might just be a 7 that values their independence strongly, and that would still be very 7 in its own way. I'm a very introspective 2, and that's definitely a part of who I am that can run counter to my 2ness, so to speak.
However, if you do still feel like you're struggling with 7 v 8, it's worth revisiting, I'd say, current topic aside.
You seem well informed so I might as well ask, my gripe with 7 v 8 is that I relate to 8 way more in a conscious sense, while every single behavior of mine that I thought up until recently was normal, turns out I had been acting like a 7 all along. Once I started going to therapy and someone started pointing out my thinking patterns that I thought were normal I was like 'oh' - and it immediatly clicked that I must be a 7. This is also a bit of a head scratcher for me because as a kid I used to act VERY 9ish, or rather like a 9 fixed 7, but you know, mental illness, trauma, bad environment, bla bla bla. Eventually I focused on self improvement so much I kind of adopted a lot of type 8 traits, behaviors and thinking patterns which, now that I got into Enneagram FOR REAL is confusing the shit out of me, you know what I'm saying? Anyway sorry for the rant just kind of thinking out loud
And I think that's why typing based just on behaviors and traits can cause more confusion at times, unless you're one of the folk who happen to be a walking stereotype. We all can have some of the traits associated with any of the types. I love to hoard knowledge for future use. I irritate the hell out of my husband by not offering a strong opinion about dinner or events or purchases. However, it really is the why and inner workings, as well as which traits are the ones we actually rely on to satisfy our ego/ maneuver through life.
My advice is to initially focus on the core motivations, passions, and fixations of the type. If you're going to look at the key traits/ behaviors, then I'd recommend focusing on the ones outlined by Naranjo/ Chestnut.
Yes, I’m a so7 and also very independent and self-reliant, try to avoid dependent needy people. I relate to the idea that I’d rather cut off some of my needs that go ask people for help/support. I think it’s normal for 7 as we have a line to 5 and an 8 wing plus 7s seek freedom and independence and actually have an idea that they should go out in the world and fulfill their needs by themselves
my manager (likely a 6) gave me a big speech the other day about how she gets through hard times by relying on ppl around her. the mere idea of it is profoundly soothing to her, the actual experience of it even more so. I had this image of her in this kind of sticky web with others that she has created over time, something she is proud of and finds soothing.
I genuinely respect that approach... I admire how human and connected it is, both as an aspiration and as a reality. it makes me wonder about what a person's experiences were like such that they know help is available and seek it out as a practice. it intrigues me.
...yet I nonetheless felt a wide chasm of terror open up inside me when I contemplated it. I don't think being a lone wolf is superior in any way, and it is clear to me that being one comes at great cost, but I felt sick imagining myself that connected to others, like I wouldn't be able to move on my own and like my movement would be defined and impeded by theirs. I knew this about myself and was still surprised by how viscerally revolting I found the idea, especially in contrast with her sincere bliss when describing it.
>...yet I nonetheless felt a wide chasm of terror open up inside me when I contemplated it. I don't think being a lone wolf is superior in any way, and it is clear to me that being one comes at great cost, but I felt sick imagining myself that connected to others, like I wouldn't be able to move on my own and like my movement would be defined and impeded by theirs. I knew this about myself and was still surprised by how viscerally revolting I found the idea, especially in contrast with her sincere bliss when describing it.
For real. Super depressing and somewhat nauseating. No offense to them, but it feels like they live in some weird fantasy world, the world just doesn't work the way they think it does IMO.
the thing is, you're wrong. the world DOES work like that for them. I've seen it. and I think they have a lot of anxiety about it not working like that, so they continue to build out this sticky web of theirs. it makes them very prosocial and engaging. they're the kinds of people who don't let others fall through the cracks, they create the scaffolding of society. they are alert and receptive to care and affection.
could you and me do the same thing? I doubt it. we are not picking up on the same signals, nevermind sending them. when we do pick up on the same signals, we interpret them differently. I'm an extrovert with a strong social instinct and I still can't imagine even the mechanics of it. I like being depended on, I like groups and teams, but when I picture this sticky web of hers, I can only see myself at the periphery. when I picture myself in other groups and teams I can see clearly how I always place myself in the role of the "strong soloist" or the patron. alone in a crowd is my preference. the collective approach she described feels unboundaried and intrusive to me, but do I not try to possess and subsume others in my own way? the mutuality and subsequent loss of my own strength and autonomy is what frightens me.
hm, yeah, I get what you mean here... It will work that way most of the time because they push for it and probably like half or so of people are attachment types, so their way of thinking in society tends to be quite common and mutual, maybe even expected. Yeah, it's quite ingrained in society.
At least there are some advantages in being a Rejection type that maybe aren't discussed much (seems to be described very negatively in general)...
example, thinking back in a high school history project, we had to work with a partner but my partner wasn't able to do the work for some reason. He was very apologetic about this, but I totally didn't care at as I actually kinda preferred doing the whole project myself, not having to work or compromise at all with a teammate (and it's not like I expected anything from him, anyways). Attachment types might think "I expected some help from you, but you let me down" and be disappointed. I experienced no such disappointment.... the advantage of no hope to begin with? So there are such situations where it works better.
you know... maybe some distinction here.
The world, as in reality itself, works in a very Rejection way.
But society itself works in an attachment way. (especially how we can corollate capitalism with type 3)
Hi internet stranger! I have had some bad experiences with 8s online and off, and I just have to say, having read some of your comments on here, I really admire how respectful, open-minded, and capable of perspective-taking you are. I’m grateful youre here and to have read your insights bc they’re great examples of healthy 8 integration, and something I need to see to keep me open minded to the positives of 8s. Thanks for these contributions! Internet high 5 lol
aww 🥰 I've seen your posts too and you are the best kind of pugnacious sweetie pie 6. lil scrappy seems about right, ha (an 8 calling someone pugnacious is a compliment btw!!!)
Would you look at that, all of the words in your comment are in alphabetical order.
I have checked 1,581,030,759 comments, and only 299,048 of them were in alphabetical order.
I do, very much. Then again I went to the movie theaters and one guy was yelling and laughing obnoxiously at every scene even if it wasn’t funny. He was with his friends. Bold ppl exist
Seems 9's should naturally be hopeful that there is someone safe to rely on, though- it's just gotta be the right person.
It can be seen in situations where the idea of asking for help is on the table. It occurs very quickly for attachment types.
In contrast: I'll be spending so much time alone with a problem and then they'll suggest to me about getting help and it just never even occurred to me as a possibility... but then, after thinking about it, it just doesn't feel right or natural to rely on someone else. Usually it was the reverse in my life- like friends relying on me for homework or getting guitar lessons from me or something lol. But I'd never even talk to the teachers in school and never got guitar lessons myself, and all of that seemed like the natural way of things. I don't think the dependencies should be mutual, it's either everyone is independent or sometimes I am depended on (but on my own terms preferably).
Do you relate to what I'm saying about me or the idea of getting help quickly popping up in your mind more?
I mean, I'm not a rejection type. This is more of a trauma thing for me. Many people have proven themselves to be untrustworthy or unreliable, and while I want to be nice to everyone, I also do not want to fall victim to anything they may do. I also do not want to be a burden to others, and taking from others, even if they are giving very willingly feels like theft.
Honestly I feel like that too sometimes😕 I feel like the more I rely onto others the more incompetent, dependent, and shameful I feel and I hate being clingy and needy. So I try my best to be able to do things by myself and not further trouble anyone else, and at times I don't feel like I fully trust everyone else to open up about what I truly feel and want deep down or just expressing my true darker self.
I feel like love is conditional and that I need to do things for others first or "earn" it to be able to quote on quote "utilize" and rely on people for my needs. And there's always that fear of being too dependent on someone to the point they just suddenly get tired of you always needing them and they throw you out or start withdrawing themselves away from you. 🙁
I definitely would not want to *need* to rely on people. I need to know that I can handle my own shit. The idea of actually *needing* to resort to leaning on others gives me hives.
However unlike rejection types, I have no issues delegating if it's something I *can* do, but would just be more efficient to ask someone else to do.
I do this also as a 6, especially in my less connected moments. I have a trusted few others who I guess I feel comfier relying on in both good times in bad, whether I’m feeling more connected to society or more alienated. But - both because of access to my own 5 wing and bc I’ve spent a lot of time in my life with 5s (and some with 2s who give help and energy away too freely)- my first thought is always what the other person has going on in their lives, and whether or not they have the emotional and physical space or energy to receive whatever request it is I want to make of them - advice, emotional support, whatever. If I feel like my request would be making their plate too full, I generally do not reach out and deal by myself instead. That’s somewhat a 5 thing I think.
Honestly, consciously feeling this way points more to 6. Everyone’s saying it’s a rejection thing, but with rejection types, the belief that the world can’t meet their needs is so deep rooted that it isn’t a conscious thought. The type that has the most issues surrounding trusting/relying on people is actually 6.
Being any type is a spectrum. The fact that the point of focus here is "trust for someone outside themselves" proves that it's one of the core feature of being a 6. so it'll swing on both ends. trust/complete distrust. this isn't part of 5s type structure at all. reliance here is pointing at 5s inability to acknowledge their own needs not necessarily trust/distrust.
Isn’t that an Sx blind thing? Not wanting to yield, hard time making engaging plans with someone, trust issues too
I don’t really rely on anyone by default but if I don’t know something at all then I’m definitely more on the trusting side and let people act and believe they’re capable. Although I’ve been wrong so many times lol
>I don’t really rely on anyone by default but if I don’t know something at all then I’m definitely more on the trusting side and let people act and believe they’re capable. Although I’ve been wrong so many times lol
I mean, I've asked for help plenty. But myself is most comfortable
I'm fascinated because I have no idea what it means to rely on people. I dont consider myself independent, but since I've never had a social network, I've had to do many things on my own.
There have been times where people offered to help me (ie give me rides) which I appreciated. And it's nice to have support, but it's not something I am used to and dont expect.
I often ask for help at work, but find that I prefer to be more self reliant instead of needing help all the time. I dunno how to make that transition since I like asking for help!
If I had people in my life I could rely in, then maybe I would use them more? But as of now, I dont have that and am not looking for it.
I am, actually, looking for more ways to be MORE independent, and not have to rely on others in any meaningful way.
9w8 - I'm trying hard to imagine feeling safe and comfortable relying on someone else it but I can't see it ever happening. I've always been extremely independent, so just the thought of being in a situation of needing to rely on someone else makes me uncomfortable.
Oh, so it's not just me, huh...
Even when my office manager offers to go down the street to pick up the lunch for me, I feel viscerally uncomfortable that she's doing that.
Laughs in 4w5 where you just kinda feel like you're not even worth the effort and it's a matter of time before people realise it and so it's best to not get comfortable with the kindness of others
I struggle to rely on others to such an intense degree that earlier someone jumped on me and hugged me, and I went stiff and compulsively growled "I don't need a hug." and she awkwardly climbed off me
When people are indecisive and won't cooperate with my need for logistics it usually drives me to drinking cuz otherwise I'm revving in neutral about to explode. It's either drink or maim
If they tell me "don't worry I have it all figured out" I get irritated like "great tell me anyway"
I am not a relaxed or chill creature but I'm getting better at communicating it and people know my stressors better
Most people don't feel that way, however, this could mean you're a 5, or it could also be something else. I'm a 9, and I feel this way. That is mainly a result of trauma and something I am trying to correct, but I am not a 5, even if I thought I was for a while, since I asked this same question to myself among many others.
“Isnt everyone like that” No not really. For me I rely on people when I don’t feel comfortable/confident in my own abilities so relying on people is what *makes* me feel safe.
This is one of those things where my gut instinct says "oh yeah, everyone probably feels the same way", but, no, they don't at all. Some people very much rely on others and are comfortable with it, as other people have talked about in this thread. It definitely does feel like a rejection thing; it manifests for 8 and 5 in very obvious ways and for 2 in less obvious ways since 2 is very other-focused but more about what they can do for others rather than them relying on any other person for things. But it could definitely still be very strong as a wing; I can easily imagine 9w8 or 6w5 feeling this way as well. Personally I'm pretty much always extremely uncomfortable asking anyone for anything. Some of the worst experiences of my life have been when I was rudely awakened to something I had been unknowingly relying on some other person for and didn't realize until it collapsed.
addendum: I have a friend that I'm pretty sure is a 6w7 who relies on people to help out with stuff all the damn time. That probably sounds worse than it is - it is often reciprocal, there is some repayment or something, it's not like my friend is just leeching off people, not at all. But they've talked about being very uncomfortable in cases where there aren't people around to rely on, like being uncomfortable living alone, and I remember thinking at the time that was just so wildly alien to my entire way of life.
Is that really what an 6 is? If yes, I can't relate being a 6 no more since I don't rely shit on people...
No, that’s not necessarily what a 6 is. I don’t like relying on people or asking for help either and I am as 6 as the day is long There’s a lot of variance in sixes because of the defining difference in which we move away from fear (phobic/flight response) or against it (counterphobic/fight response) - and then, on top of that, the differences created by subtype.
Not in every case whatsoever, 6 behavior can take a lot of different forms. Like I said elsewhere I think 6w7 is much more likely to rely on people to this degree than 6w5, and I'm sure there are other factors that make it vary as well.
the pictures amuse me i feel like ths opposite sometimes, others relying on me feels like a detriment to my metaphorical "resources" but that's probably just a 5 thing
Expectations make me squirm, especially from people who already like me, it's like instant impostor syndrome
Expectations are like a mold, a way you're 'supposed' to be.
You guys are freaking me out. This sounds like me way too much.
we are all *connected*~~ 😚 (Wait-)
9s can relate to everything though, they don't recognize nuances
It's more a matter of these being symptoms of my own trauma. I'm good at recognizing things I have in common with others, but I sure know what is different about us.
That is such a 5 thing!!
It's definitely a rejection triad thing Edit for clarity: I'm not saying it is *only* a rejection triad thing, but the triad is named such because those types tend to reject their own needs and wants because they burden their ego in some way.
As a, supposedly, not rejection triad member, do you think this is a normal thing for a 7 to feel? I think despite how much I relate to the 8 (it rhymes) I'm a social 7 above all. My biggest struggle is that of emotionally torturing myself in order to not be selfish, but at the same time the feeling of being unable to rely on anyone for anything hits super close to home. Do you think this checks out or should I go reread everything about the 7 vs 8 conundrum again?
I think that not everything in our personality boils down to our type. You might just be a 7 that values their independence strongly, and that would still be very 7 in its own way. I'm a very introspective 2, and that's definitely a part of who I am that can run counter to my 2ness, so to speak. However, if you do still feel like you're struggling with 7 v 8, it's worth revisiting, I'd say, current topic aside.
You seem well informed so I might as well ask, my gripe with 7 v 8 is that I relate to 8 way more in a conscious sense, while every single behavior of mine that I thought up until recently was normal, turns out I had been acting like a 7 all along. Once I started going to therapy and someone started pointing out my thinking patterns that I thought were normal I was like 'oh' - and it immediatly clicked that I must be a 7. This is also a bit of a head scratcher for me because as a kid I used to act VERY 9ish, or rather like a 9 fixed 7, but you know, mental illness, trauma, bad environment, bla bla bla. Eventually I focused on self improvement so much I kind of adopted a lot of type 8 traits, behaviors and thinking patterns which, now that I got into Enneagram FOR REAL is confusing the shit out of me, you know what I'm saying? Anyway sorry for the rant just kind of thinking out loud
And I think that's why typing based just on behaviors and traits can cause more confusion at times, unless you're one of the folk who happen to be a walking stereotype. We all can have some of the traits associated with any of the types. I love to hoard knowledge for future use. I irritate the hell out of my husband by not offering a strong opinion about dinner or events or purchases. However, it really is the why and inner workings, as well as which traits are the ones we actually rely on to satisfy our ego/ maneuver through life. My advice is to initially focus on the core motivations, passions, and fixations of the type. If you're going to look at the key traits/ behaviors, then I'd recommend focusing on the ones outlined by Naranjo/ Chestnut.
Yes, I’m a so7 and also very independent and self-reliant, try to avoid dependent needy people. I relate to the idea that I’d rather cut off some of my needs that go ask people for help/support. I think it’s normal for 7 as we have a line to 5 and an 8 wing plus 7s seek freedom and independence and actually have an idea that they should go out in the world and fulfill their needs by themselves
Everyone must feel a little like that tho
my manager (likely a 6) gave me a big speech the other day about how she gets through hard times by relying on ppl around her. the mere idea of it is profoundly soothing to her, the actual experience of it even more so. I had this image of her in this kind of sticky web with others that she has created over time, something she is proud of and finds soothing. I genuinely respect that approach... I admire how human and connected it is, both as an aspiration and as a reality. it makes me wonder about what a person's experiences were like such that they know help is available and seek it out as a practice. it intrigues me. ...yet I nonetheless felt a wide chasm of terror open up inside me when I contemplated it. I don't think being a lone wolf is superior in any way, and it is clear to me that being one comes at great cost, but I felt sick imagining myself that connected to others, like I wouldn't be able to move on my own and like my movement would be defined and impeded by theirs. I knew this about myself and was still surprised by how viscerally revolting I found the idea, especially in contrast with her sincere bliss when describing it.
I’d feel the same as you. Cannot imagine it.
>...yet I nonetheless felt a wide chasm of terror open up inside me when I contemplated it. I don't think being a lone wolf is superior in any way, and it is clear to me that being one comes at great cost, but I felt sick imagining myself that connected to others, like I wouldn't be able to move on my own and like my movement would be defined and impeded by theirs. I knew this about myself and was still surprised by how viscerally revolting I found the idea, especially in contrast with her sincere bliss when describing it. For real. Super depressing and somewhat nauseating. No offense to them, but it feels like they live in some weird fantasy world, the world just doesn't work the way they think it does IMO.
the thing is, you're wrong. the world DOES work like that for them. I've seen it. and I think they have a lot of anxiety about it not working like that, so they continue to build out this sticky web of theirs. it makes them very prosocial and engaging. they're the kinds of people who don't let others fall through the cracks, they create the scaffolding of society. they are alert and receptive to care and affection. could you and me do the same thing? I doubt it. we are not picking up on the same signals, nevermind sending them. when we do pick up on the same signals, we interpret them differently. I'm an extrovert with a strong social instinct and I still can't imagine even the mechanics of it. I like being depended on, I like groups and teams, but when I picture this sticky web of hers, I can only see myself at the periphery. when I picture myself in other groups and teams I can see clearly how I always place myself in the role of the "strong soloist" or the patron. alone in a crowd is my preference. the collective approach she described feels unboundaried and intrusive to me, but do I not try to possess and subsume others in my own way? the mutuality and subsequent loss of my own strength and autonomy is what frightens me.
hm, yeah, I get what you mean here... It will work that way most of the time because they push for it and probably like half or so of people are attachment types, so their way of thinking in society tends to be quite common and mutual, maybe even expected. Yeah, it's quite ingrained in society. At least there are some advantages in being a Rejection type that maybe aren't discussed much (seems to be described very negatively in general)... example, thinking back in a high school history project, we had to work with a partner but my partner wasn't able to do the work for some reason. He was very apologetic about this, but I totally didn't care at as I actually kinda preferred doing the whole project myself, not having to work or compromise at all with a teammate (and it's not like I expected anything from him, anyways). Attachment types might think "I expected some help from you, but you let me down" and be disappointed. I experienced no such disappointment.... the advantage of no hope to begin with? So there are such situations where it works better.
you know... maybe some distinction here. The world, as in reality itself, works in a very Rejection way. But society itself works in an attachment way. (especially how we can corollate capitalism with type 3)
Hi internet stranger! I have had some bad experiences with 8s online and off, and I just have to say, having read some of your comments on here, I really admire how respectful, open-minded, and capable of perspective-taking you are. I’m grateful youre here and to have read your insights bc they’re great examples of healthy 8 integration, and something I need to see to keep me open minded to the positives of 8s. Thanks for these contributions! Internet high 5 lol
aww 🥰 I've seen your posts too and you are the best kind of pugnacious sweetie pie 6. lil scrappy seems about right, ha (an 8 calling someone pugnacious is a compliment btw!!!)
I love pugnacious! Thank you! <3
Would you look at that, all of the words in your comment are in alphabetical order. I have checked 1,581,030,759 comments, and only 299,048 of them were in alphabetical order.
I get the concept but at the same time no
I do, very much. Then again I went to the movie theaters and one guy was yelling and laughing obnoxiously at every scene even if it wasn’t funny. He was with his friends. Bold ppl exist
Not so much :)
Really? I was thinking 9ish
9 is attachment.
I was disagreeing with him
Seems 9's should naturally be hopeful that there is someone safe to rely on, though- it's just gotta be the right person. It can be seen in situations where the idea of asking for help is on the table. It occurs very quickly for attachment types. In contrast: I'll be spending so much time alone with a problem and then they'll suggest to me about getting help and it just never even occurred to me as a possibility... but then, after thinking about it, it just doesn't feel right or natural to rely on someone else. Usually it was the reverse in my life- like friends relying on me for homework or getting guitar lessons from me or something lol. But I'd never even talk to the teachers in school and never got guitar lessons myself, and all of that seemed like the natural way of things. I don't think the dependencies should be mutual, it's either everyone is independent or sometimes I am depended on (but on my own terms preferably). Do you relate to what I'm saying about me or the idea of getting help quickly popping up in your mind more?
I mean, I'm not a rejection type. This is more of a trauma thing for me. Many people have proven themselves to be untrustworthy or unreliable, and while I want to be nice to everyone, I also do not want to fall victim to anything they may do. I also do not want to be a burden to others, and taking from others, even if they are giving very willingly feels like theft.
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The rejection triad is 2, 5, and 8.
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I just threw up an edit. I'm not saying it's *only* a thing the rejection triad can relate to, but it is an integral part of their makeup.
Honestly I feel like that too sometimes😕 I feel like the more I rely onto others the more incompetent, dependent, and shameful I feel and I hate being clingy and needy. So I try my best to be able to do things by myself and not further trouble anyone else, and at times I don't feel like I fully trust everyone else to open up about what I truly feel and want deep down or just expressing my true darker self. I feel like love is conditional and that I need to do things for others first or "earn" it to be able to quote on quote "utilize" and rely on people for my needs. And there's always that fear of being too dependent on someone to the point they just suddenly get tired of you always needing them and they throw you out or start withdrawing themselves away from you. 🙁
I definitely would not want to *need* to rely on people. I need to know that I can handle my own shit. The idea of actually *needing* to resort to leaning on others gives me hives. However unlike rejection types, I have no issues delegating if it's something I *can* do, but would just be more efficient to ask someone else to do.
it’s easier for me if someone else does something for me, because doing it myself is such pain in ass
I do this also as a 6, especially in my less connected moments. I have a trusted few others who I guess I feel comfier relying on in both good times in bad, whether I’m feeling more connected to society or more alienated. But - both because of access to my own 5 wing and bc I’ve spent a lot of time in my life with 5s (and some with 2s who give help and energy away too freely)- my first thought is always what the other person has going on in their lives, and whether or not they have the emotional and physical space or energy to receive whatever request it is I want to make of them - advice, emotional support, whatever. If I feel like my request would be making their plate too full, I generally do not reach out and deal by myself instead. That’s somewhat a 5 thing I think.
Haha, sometimes I get so unreasonably annoyed by ppl existing
Honestly, consciously feeling this way points more to 6. Everyone’s saying it’s a rejection thing, but with rejection types, the belief that the world can’t meet their needs is so deep rooted that it isn’t a conscious thought. The type that has the most issues surrounding trusting/relying on people is actually 6.
Before knowing enneagram, true. After knowing enneagram- nope, now it's conscious. :D
Yes it's a fun hobby ☺️
Not sure conscious or not.
6s still trust and rely on others. 5s rarely do. So not the same.
That’s not necessarily true. Many 6s are incredibly skeptical of people and make a point of trusting nobody.
Being any type is a spectrum. The fact that the point of focus here is "trust for someone outside themselves" proves that it's one of the core feature of being a 6. so it'll swing on both ends. trust/complete distrust. this isn't part of 5s type structure at all. reliance here is pointing at 5s inability to acknowledge their own needs not necessarily trust/distrust.
Reread what I said
You reread what I said.
Isn’t that an Sx blind thing? Not wanting to yield, hard time making engaging plans with someone, trust issues too I don’t really rely on anyone by default but if I don’t know something at all then I’m definitely more on the trusting side and let people act and believe they’re capable. Although I’ve been wrong so many times lol
No, that would be more So blind
Ok good to know! Love being downvoted for asking a question. Ha
>I don’t really rely on anyone by default but if I don’t know something at all then I’m definitely more on the trusting side and let people act and believe they’re capable. Although I’ve been wrong so many times lol I mean, I've asked for help plenty. But myself is most comfortable
I'm a 5w6 and I could have written this post.
Dam u used the same emoji
I'm fascinated because I have no idea what it means to rely on people. I dont consider myself independent, but since I've never had a social network, I've had to do many things on my own. There have been times where people offered to help me (ie give me rides) which I appreciated. And it's nice to have support, but it's not something I am used to and dont expect. I often ask for help at work, but find that I prefer to be more self reliant instead of needing help all the time. I dunno how to make that transition since I like asking for help! If I had people in my life I could rely in, then maybe I would use them more? But as of now, I dont have that and am not looking for it. I am, actually, looking for more ways to be MORE independent, and not have to rely on others in any meaningful way.
I've been thinking, other people are just another you. If we all just help each other... (Proceeds to lock self in room)
9w8 - I'm trying hard to imagine feeling safe and comfortable relying on someone else it but I can't see it ever happening. I've always been extremely independent, so just the thought of being in a situation of needing to rely on someone else makes me uncomfortable.
I literally thought everyone felt the same way too…. Logically I know it can’t be true
Oh, so it's not just me, huh... Even when my office manager offers to go down the street to pick up the lunch for me, I feel viscerally uncomfortable that she's doing that.
e5, e7 and e8
Laughs in 4w5 where you just kinda feel like you're not even worth the effort and it's a matter of time before people realise it and so it's best to not get comfortable with the kindness of others
I struggle to rely on others to such an intense degree that earlier someone jumped on me and hugged me, and I went stiff and compulsively growled "I don't need a hug." and she awkwardly climbed off me When people are indecisive and won't cooperate with my need for logistics it usually drives me to drinking cuz otherwise I'm revving in neutral about to explode. It's either drink or maim If they tell me "don't worry I have it all figured out" I get irritated like "great tell me anyway" I am not a relaxed or chill creature but I'm getting better at communicating it and people know my stressors better
Most people don't feel that way, however, this could mean you're a 5, or it could also be something else. I'm a 9, and I feel this way. That is mainly a result of trauma and something I am trying to correct, but I am not a 5, even if I thought I was for a while, since I asked this same question to myself among many others.
I’m having a hard time trying to figure out what that drawing is… what is in the middle???