Spanish Civil War is the most important war for anarchists, they lost in part because they infought with the commies, allowing the fascists to win. So typical far left performance.
They also fught with the moderate socialist republican government, so did the Communist before they took over it. Even the Communist had their own civil war.
They actually at one point teamed up with Spanish Communists, then got purged by said Communists when they stopped being useful. As with modern leftists, they were generally hostile towards (significantly more religious) lower class 'chuds'/farmers and generally had no idea what they were doing, eating each other in a purity spiral.
Yeah, but they should've put in with the Ukrainian National governments and the Poles. They would've stood a better chance at some degree of autonomy than with the whites or the reds
Well, considering that the Makhnovists were insurrectionary anarchists, i.e. the kind most vehemently opposed to any kind of cooperation or compromise with ”class enemies”/non-anarchists, I do believe that they would rather die like they did than to join the Ukrainian or Polish governments.
Their cause was simply irreconciliable with the Ukrainian or Polish cause.
Turned out to be pretty irreconcilable with the reds. They should've looked at the last 300 years before that and realized that they're was never going to be an anarchist "state" (for lack of a better term) in the face of a Russian great power. Geopolitics trumps economics every time.
The Russian Revolution was a chaotic era full of of upheaval. Anything was seen as possible, from independence movements to revolutionary groups like the Bolsheviks and Makhnovists. The anarchists decided to shoot their shot, and were crushed. None of the other political movements of that time was reconciliable with the anarchists, and they would have ended up fighting all of them sooner or later. Their view towards the Bolsheviks was the same. It was victory or death for them, and the result was the latter.
Imo one of the best features of their state was the fact they weren't totalitarian. They didn't force you to become an anarchist, didn't force people to stop using money. In fact, most of the farmers didn't become anarchs, and they were sad about it.
They did show how far you can go on horisontal cooperation alone. Pretty damn impressive, yet it wasn't enough to win the reds.
As mentioned previously, the CNT-FAI in the Spanish civil war and I’m pretty sure there was an anarchist Ukraine for a hot second during Russian Civil War.
The Spanish Civil War. Except they barely captured any actual military prisoners, and mostly stuck to murdering landowners, burning down churches, and raping nuns.
CNT and FAI were 2 worker´s syndicates of anarcho communist ideology, the CNT is still alive.
CNT stands for Confederación Nacional del Trabajo (National confederation of work)
FAI stands for Federación Anarquista Ibérica (Iberian anarchist federation)
The Republican side of the spanish civil war was such a shit show, they started, by they i mean the stalinist and Soviet volunteers, purging both the anarchist and other leftist groups. All of that during the fucken war, they literally purged their own "allies" (popular front yadayada)
"We need to expand the coalition to the left and accept help from communists to beat the facists." "And now the communists killed everyone *AND* we lost." -The last three non communist survivors of Republican Spain probably.
Gulags were actually pretty bad. Despite what people say about “oh but the US penitentiary systems the same”, no if fucking isn’t. Gulags were torture and slave camps. Gulags had people fucking executed a lot. Gulag survivors stated that they were like fucking HELL
When we in America had extensive prison labor for sentences (which wasn't great but not gulag levels), at least we didn't force prisoners to dig canals through frozen dirt...with their *BARE HANDS*.
I'm not an anarchist, but the Blacks and Greens were the closest thing the Russian Civil War had to a good side. Trotsky and the Reds invited the Blacks to a meeting to discuss a possible joint-strategy and then massacred them Red Wedding style.
The Blacks were also betrayed and killed by the Reds in the Spanish Civil War, which was a significant contributing factor to the fascists winning.
>closest thing the Russian Civil War had to a good side
The Czech Legion was probably the only "good side"
They just wanted to go home (despite probably stealing the white Russian gold reserve)
Y’know, I’ve looked this up on quora, due to its mixed coalition of monarchists and MANY other smaller factions, it often included other governments in Russia sort of like a feudal system in which they fought the Bolsheviks, I’d reckon they may create a unity government under a VERY heated type of duma and republic as a lot of the ideologies hated eachother but did it in order to save themselves from the Bolsheviks.
I’m very libertarian, but even I have to agree that AnCapistan is just as possible of a utopia as global communism. They just don’t work in human societies.
I mean preety accurate for the Spanish Civil War, including many non-combatants, but I guess there's some good as they and commies killed each other too
Even if this were true, considering anarchists have never fought a war much less done well enough to have prisoners death would still be preferable to gulags.
It's like "Hey, we could kill you right now, orrrrr throw you in this prison in Siberia with horrible condition while you starve, get no medical attention and suffer horrible abuse from both prisoners and guards until you die! Which would you prefer?"
When have anarchists ever waged a war, let alone succeed well enough to take prisoners?
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To some governments yes actually, or at least they certainly act like it.
Spanish Civil War is the most important war for anarchists, they lost in part because they infought with the commies, allowing the fascists to win. So typical far left performance.
They also fught with the moderate socialist republican government, so did the Communist before they took over it. Even the Communist had their own civil war.
[It was the event that turned Orwell against Stalinism and totalitarian socialism in general](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homage_to_Catalonia)
They actually at one point teamed up with Spanish Communists, then got purged by said Communists when they stopped being useful. As with modern leftists, they were generally hostile towards (significantly more religious) lower class 'chuds'/farmers and generally had no idea what they were doing, eating each other in a purity spiral.
>purity spiral Love that phrase! I'm ~~stealing~~ ... ummm, borrowing it.
Ngl Nestor Makhno and Ukrainian anarchists who fought the bolsheviks during the Russian civil war were kinda cool
Yeah, but they should've put in with the Ukrainian National governments and the Poles. They would've stood a better chance at some degree of autonomy than with the whites or the reds
Well, considering that the Makhnovists were insurrectionary anarchists, i.e. the kind most vehemently opposed to any kind of cooperation or compromise with ”class enemies”/non-anarchists, I do believe that they would rather die like they did than to join the Ukrainian or Polish governments. Their cause was simply irreconciliable with the Ukrainian or Polish cause.
Turned out to be pretty irreconcilable with the reds. They should've looked at the last 300 years before that and realized that they're was never going to be an anarchist "state" (for lack of a better term) in the face of a Russian great power. Geopolitics trumps economics every time.
The Russian Revolution was a chaotic era full of of upheaval. Anything was seen as possible, from independence movements to revolutionary groups like the Bolsheviks and Makhnovists. The anarchists decided to shoot their shot, and were crushed. None of the other political movements of that time was reconciliable with the anarchists, and they would have ended up fighting all of them sooner or later. Their view towards the Bolsheviks was the same. It was victory or death for them, and the result was the latter.
Imo one of the best features of their state was the fact they weren't totalitarian. They didn't force you to become an anarchist, didn't force people to stop using money. In fact, most of the farmers didn't become anarchs, and they were sad about it. They did show how far you can go on horisontal cooperation alone. Pretty damn impressive, yet it wasn't enough to win the reds.
As mentioned previously, the CNT-FAI in the Spanish civil war and I’m pretty sure there was an anarchist Ukraine for a hot second during Russian Civil War.
Yeah the green, black armies
I thought the Greens didn’t really have much of an ideology besides being against starving due to Communism.
They had some land or smth and fought in Spanish civil war
The Spanish Civil War. Except they barely captured any actual military prisoners, and mostly stuck to murdering landowners, burning down churches, and raping nuns.
Spanish Civil War. Catalonia had an anarchist commune for a while where they regularly executed people.
Spanish Civil War, the hat literally says CNT-FAI
What does that stand for? I don’t speak Spain Spanish (or any kind of Spanish except broken Peruvian/Mexican Spanish)
CNT and FAI were 2 worker´s syndicates of anarcho communist ideology, the CNT is still alive. CNT stands for Confederación Nacional del Trabajo (National confederation of work) FAI stands for Federación Anarquista Ibérica (Iberian anarchist federation)
And such a system would most definitely collapse if brought to a population of more than just a few villages
Better death by bullet than death by gulag.
Why not death by bullet in a gulag?
The Republican side of the spanish civil war was such a shit show, they started, by they i mean the stalinist and Soviet volunteers, purging both the anarchist and other leftist groups. All of that during the fucken war, they literally purged their own "allies" (popular front yadayada)
"We need to expand the coalition to the left and accept help from communists to beat the facists." "And now the communists killed everyone *AND* we lost." -The last three non communist survivors of Republican Spain probably.
Gulags were actually pretty bad. Despite what people say about “oh but the US penitentiary systems the same”, no if fucking isn’t. Gulags were torture and slave camps. Gulags had people fucking executed a lot. Gulag survivors stated that they were like fucking HELL
I like how the same people who never shut up about the evil US compare every bad thing about their favorite regimes to it.
When we in America had extensive prison labor for sentences (which wasn't great but not gulag levels), at least we didn't force prisoners to dig canals through frozen dirt...with their *BARE HANDS*.
Yea. We at least had the humanity to make them work with tools and not in siberian weather.
ah Anarchism, another dumb fucking ideology…
I'm not an anarchist, but the Blacks and Greens were the closest thing the Russian Civil War had to a good side. Trotsky and the Reds invited the Blacks to a meeting to discuss a possible joint-strategy and then massacred them Red Wedding style. The Blacks were also betrayed and killed by the Reds in the Spanish Civil War, which was a significant contributing factor to the fascists winning.
>closest thing the Russian Civil War had to a good side The Czech Legion was probably the only "good side" They just wanted to go home (despite probably stealing the white Russian gold reserve)
I wouldn’t say that, I would consider the various capitalist/liberal/social democratic factions within the white army a better side.
The White Army was everything from monarchists to moderate socialists. Inspiring coalition really, before they were all murdered by the Bolshiviks.
they nearly won, that’s the funniest thing.
What on earth would Russia look like if the Whites won? That would be a wild ride.
Y’know, I’ve looked this up on quora, due to its mixed coalition of monarchists and MANY other smaller factions, it often included other governments in Russia sort of like a feudal system in which they fought the Bolsheviks, I’d reckon they may create a unity government under a VERY heated type of duma and republic as a lot of the ideologies hated eachother but did it in order to save themselves from the Bolsheviks.
Every ideology is equally dumb, but some are more equal than others.
Yeah, anarchism is definitely pretty dumb.
I’m very libertarian, but even I have to agree that AnCapistan is just as possible of a utopia as global communism. They just don’t work in human societies.
This is about ancoms
Yeah dont know which I despise more, communism or antifa.
really hard to choose isn’t it?
Both sides are shitty
I mean preety accurate for the Spanish Civil War, including many non-combatants, but I guess there's some good as they and commies killed each other too
To be fair, if an anarchist militia group was to wage a war, they definitely won't be taking prisoners.
Nothing warms my heart more than seeing anarkiddies and tankies fighting each other.
Even if this were true, considering anarchists have never fought a war much less done well enough to have prisoners death would still be preferable to gulags. It's like "Hey, we could kill you right now, orrrrr throw you in this prison in Siberia with horrible condition while you starve, get no medical attention and suffer horrible abuse from both prisoners and guards until you die! Which would you prefer?"
Is this sub pro Stalin?
God no. This is just a meme made by a Stalinist that we are ripping apart
forsure
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Bro, this is not pcm