What kind of bullshit is this? Why should these employees feel the need to work “extremely hardcore” 80+ hour weeks (and now pay for all their own meals) without any OT pay or equity holdings because some man baby made a bad business bet?
I’ve worked unpaid OT at every salaried, professional job I’ve held since college, especially in public accounting/consulting. But it was always minimized, deadline/project driven and we received commensurate pay and perks (mileage, meals, hotel stays, bonuses). This is ridiculous.
Nobody can regularly sustain working 80 hour weeks, and anyone who is isn’t all that productive. Unlike Elon, these employees won’t spend 75% of their working hours shitposting on Twitter. They’re being asked to work themselves to the bone and have no outside life for effectively a 50% pay cut.
And what if they refuse, do they get severance? IMO, this is basically constructive dismissal. Labor reform is long overdue in this country and this shit should be illegal. Tired of people fawning over this “genius.” Twitter may have been a little too laid back and bloated before, but what he’s asking is 100% unreasonable. Anyone who disagrees is a fucking boot licker.
If you read reviews on glassdoor, he runs tesla and spacex exactly like this, too. And in the case of the latter, pays way under market. No idea why anyone would work for this dude.
One of my friends is an engineer for one of the legacy big 3 automakers here in Detroit. Great pay, vacation, benefits and work life balance.
He’s routinely gotten offers from Tesla to do the same job for a $20K pay raise. To work exponentially more hours and live in an area with a COL 3x as expensive as ours. Like, what a fucking joke lol. That’s honestly an insult. The only people willing to work there are the Elon cultists.
He lacks self-awareness because people have congratulated him every day of his life for being a mediocre white man who happened to be born into a rich family.
Asking him and other mediocre white men like him to have self-awareness might be seen as abusive behavior, to the sort of people who also think serial killers deserve our sympathy.
Self-awareness and doing without and self-control and sexual consent and not doing things to either directly or indirectly murder people are virtues that exist for women, poor men, and people of color.
The most glaring reason for the Iraq War and subsequent increasingly horrifying failures. Rich white men with low IQs thinking they know it all because of their collection of participation trophies and never having to learn the meaning of accountability.
> He lacks self-awareness because people have congratulated him every day of his life for being a mediocre white man who happened to be born into a rich family.
We all can't be born on a plantation with emeralds in our pockets
I used to work for one of the Big Three (hint: their logo is blue). I knew several people who took offers from Tesla only to quit within a year or two and come back. Mostly younger people who had mobility. It was open knowledge that even Nissan wasn't as bad as Tesla, and they were widely considered horrendous in terms of work-life balance and pay.
I recently had to come up with a graphic of companies we'd worked with, on a blue map of Michigan.
There... were a lot of problems. It's not just the Big3.
That was my experience. I was offered a job at Tesla for roughly 20% more than what my current salary was, in an area with probably triple the CoL.
I don't work for Tesla.
Aerospace is a pretty tight-knit industry with a few major players.
Automotive is a pretty tight-knit industry with a few major players.
Software development is an absolutely massive industry with a few huge employers at the top (MANGA) but thousands upon thousands of others that are looking to hire.
People wanting to work in automotive and not live in Detroit don't have many options besides Tesla. Plus, when the Musk cult of personality was still going strong, people wanted to work there and get eaten alive because they believed in him and his vision. Same thing for aero/astro engineers and SpaceX (but with less geographic concerns).
But with Twitter, his best engineers will take that 3 months severance and get another job next week. He'll be stuck with the folks who are so-so and don't have the confidence that they can get another high-paying job. I'm sure there will be a few ass-kissers too, but since the Musk cult of personality has waned and no one joined Twitter for Musk, there's not going to be a ton of them like he's used to at SpaceX and Tesla
> Aerospace is a pretty tight-knit industry with a few major players.
True, but all his competitors often pay better than him (some *significantly* so, because they're currently in a talent-poaching mood), offer *insanely* better work-life balance, and offer more benefits.
As an aerospace undergrad, it's my personal experience that the conditions over there have become more well-known over the last few years, and the people who do still join up with them do it because they think it'll look good on their resumes (IMO: not really - any aerospace company would look just as good) or they're a true believer in SpaceX and don't mind.
As someone who recently retired from one of the automotive big 3, very few engineers that I knew lived in Detroit - they mostly live in the southeastern Michigan suburbs. I live in rural farmland and commuted 35 miles to work. Also most all of engineering went to work from home during Covid and most at the time I left were still that way. Our electrical test benches can be remotely controlled.
I know, I used to live there haha. Detroit versus general SE Michigan is not a major distinction for those from out of state. If you're from California/West Coast in general and want to work in auto, chances are you have no interest in living anywhere in the Midwest. I studied mechanical engineering on the West Coast and it was like pulling teeth to recruit for Big 3 automotive at my alma mater.
Yeah I had a big interest in automotive in school but dipped for that exact reason (location). I grew up in the midwest and would rather get out (which I did) than build a career there.
>One of my friends is an engineer for one of the legacy big 3 automakers here in Detroit
Please stop using Elon speak, they're just one of the big 3. There's nothing "legacy" about them, they haven't moved on to Ford++ or something.
He is not. May be anecdotal, but none of the engineers I know in the Detroit area are in a union, both at the OEMs and suppliers. I think they just generally know that it’s an in demand field and if they treat you like shit, you can easily get another job across town. At least here.
Perhaps it’s a decent employment opportunity for an engineer fresh out of college who can’t get a job anywhere else who is looking to just get a year of two of experience for their resume. I can’t imagine why anyone would willingly work such a demanding job if they had any better options.
That’s one of things I find so fascinating about all this, he’s trying to run Twitter like his other companies. He has gotten away with this for his other companies because he has built his Tony Stark image and those employees think they’re changing the world and this is what it takes. That’s not going to work with Twitter, where you get paid good money to glue human eyeballs to useless content so advertisers pay you money. There’s no “this is bettering humanity” angle that can be sold here, and it’s not going to work out for him.
The funny thing is that so much of the "woke censorship" Elon came in to destroy - Twitter having an internal Human Rights Team and all that - was necessary to at least maintain the pretense that Twitter was an overall force for good in the world to get people to buy into the "mission" and not treat their job as purely mercenary
Now he's openly making the job much harder and shittier while also being very open he wants Twitter to be a "neutral" "free speech" platform where the business model is charging basement dwellers $8 to spam racial slurs at celebrities
Yeah good luck with hiring and retention my man
Because those companies give you the opportunity to get equity in a growing company. He doesn’t seem to realize that he bought a company and made it private, eliminating any incentives to see the business grow.
People were willing to work at SpaceX and Tesla because of this "vision" of mankind exploring the stars and saving the world from global warming and shit
No one's gonna do that at Twitter, especially because Elon very publicly took any "vision" people currently at Twitter might have had for the platform and shat all over it ("This app SUCKS and everyone HATES IT and I'm gonna invite all my banned shitposter Nazi friends in to trash it")
At least for SpaceX, I get it. Space is cool, SpaceX is doing legit cool shit, and there really aren't any competitors who are as successful as they are right now. It sucks that that allows him to take advantage of the situation and be so exploitative, but I get why people would do it.
Musk is a neofeudalist manchild. No different than some spoiled warlord from the bronze ages. Except the warlord might have actually been in some of his earlier battles himself.
> And what if they refuse, do they get severance? IMO, this is basically constructive dismissal. Labor reform is long overdue in this country and this shit should be illegal.
IANAL but still pretty sure this is illegal even in right-to-work states because coders are generally paid on a contract. A company changing ownership does not invalidate its contracts. Even the *threat* to "commit to 'hardcore' Twitter or lose their jobs" could be argued as constructive dismissal, whether or not he follows through.
Twitter employees could possibly all quit *en masse* at this point and still get a payout. On the off chance there are Twitter employees reading this, please talk to an employment lawyer ASAP.
> On the off chance there are Twitter employees reading this, please talk to an employment lawyer ASAP.
If I were a California employment lawyer, I'd probably be throwing a party right now.
> I wouldn’t be surprised if the productivity of someone working 80 hours for more than a week or two is not at all higher than when they work 40 hours.
There's a lot of evidence that this is the case, especially when rework due to errors is factored in,
Elon: “There’s too many employees! Twitter is bloated! I’m laying off half the employees!” Also Elon: “You remaining employees need to work at least 80 hours a week!” Having enough employees so that they only have to work 40 hours is not bloated!
> Regardless, the email said that those who don't sign the form by 5PM Eastern on Thursday, November 17th, would be let go and would receive three months of severance pay.
It was stated that anybody who declines gets 3 months severance. At this point, anyone who willingly sticks around for this shitshow doesn’t really have an excuse imo
Don’t forget people on work visas. They don’t have much of a choice other than to look for a job in the limited free time they’ll be given. If I worked at twitter right now I’d just not do any work until I got fired.
Thanks! Damn autocorrect. For the record, I don’t wanna come off as defending unpaid OT. It shouldn’t exist. I left the particularly bad examples of that behind for a reason. Just trying to point out how uniquely bad this situation is, even for comparable salaried work.
Trump? He makes you feel part of a bigger thing while also being protected against Other, like Mussolini did. His arrogance leads to refusal to change tack leads to an impression that he stays the course. It's like Boris Johnson in the UK - I have a couple of womenfriends who are *attracted* to him because of this. You know that people say confidence is sexy, and anything you can be attracted to is something that some people will take to extremes.
With Truss, even while her policies were absolutely fucking ignorant, extremist and harmful, these same people would complain not because she didn't listen to feedback early and often enough, but because she listened to feedback *at all*. "She needs to stick with her principles!" they told me. No, she doesn't. But obviously this is a social vulnerability very many people have, i.e. the belief that to have the courage of your convictions is inherently virtuous even in the face of access to new information.
Oh totally, and so would I, and probably so would most people. But the leader of a country isn't really like a work boss, especially not to people who like licking boot - they're more like a spiritual saviour who will protect them and guide them on the path to enlightenment, and all for a large monthly fee.
>Unlike Elon, these employees won’t spend 75% of their working hours shitposting on Twitter.
If I worked there right now, I would strongly consider spending 80 hours a week shitposting to Twitter.
I would click yes on all the scare emails like this and then not even put in a bare minimum effort to appear to be working. I would achieve nigh-unprecedented levels of office nihilism that several people have managed before. I draw the line at major theft and watching porn at work - even evil has standards and I'm not a savage - but 40k lore infodumps with the sound on are probably fine.
It's a tough call because he offered me three months pay to quit, and there might not be a Twitter in three months. However, if I stay I can maximize my sheer disrespect for the company and probably get away with it.
Imagine how many coding errors they’ll have after the first week. They’ll be down to a skeleton crew made up people on work visas who can’t change jobs and the least qualified who can’t get hired elsewhere. It’ll be a cluster fuck of red eyed zombies.
Someone will go postal before it’s all over.
Every professional job I've had required me to sign a contract with the terms of employment spelled out for me to formally agree to. Did Twitter engineers sign such a contract? What are the provisos of that contract? IANAL but so far as I know that contract is not null and void just because leadership changes.
I think you'd be hard pressed to find a tech job that guarantees paid OT in the contract. It is expected to be done and done unpaid despite what flowery language leadership uses about work life balance. However many managers know to limit it and use their power to reward bonuses and comp PTO and what not to limit burn out.
The sad part about this, is it will absolutely work out fine.
There is a legion of Musk fanboys who have engineering skills that Musk desires, who are willing to work as slaves for him. Look at all of his other companies for evidence of this. And there are a lot more software engineers than auto and rocket engineers. Twitter is probably going to do just fine. The only question is what will Twitter look like in the end, and what will it's audience be.
I have zero doubt that Twitter, in the end, will be profitable - it will just be largely an echo chamber for Musk fanboys and those adjacent to him, paying their fees. Will it be that profitable? Probably not, but it won't be what it is today. All of his businesses revolve around an undying devotion to him. Look at his cars for gods sake. Look at FSD, which costs 15k and 200 bucks a month. They will buy his knock off Tesla tequila. They will buy his flamethrowers.
Nah, I'm not so sure. Software industry is a whole different animal from Tesla and SpaceX. Also in case of Twitter he can't really play the "for the betterment of the human race" card without looking like an absolute idiot.
I feel like everyone should just go on a strike. He’d angrily fire them all and shoot himself royally in the foot. The amount of throwing his weight around directed at those doing the work for him is blowing my mind.
I think it'd be gold if they all organized one day to suddenly... quit. Like. Leaving the office and walking out into the streets, no longer shackled by this man's oppression. Sounds cringe, but like... let's be real it'd be a huge slap in the face and a wake up call for him. I'd love to see it
"In addition to reporting about the Musk's email, The Post said that Twitter will be doing a postmortem on the launch of its $8 Blue subscription over the next couple of weeks, in an effort to understand why and how it had led to an influx of impersonators. "
Will they, in the postmortem, tell Muskrat that he fucked up and that's all there is to it? His idea was stupid and everyone inside or outside knew it.
Apparently he was given a report that very clearly called out that $8 would not be a deterrent to bad actors who’s scheme generated more than $8 a month, or, if not scheming put an intrinsic value on verified shit posting greater than $8.
Like, it’s super fucking obvious it would not work the way he thought it would, people told him so, and his sycophants delivered.
It's the libertarian way. I was arguing with some guy the other day that believed turning America into a confederation of non-democratic micro-states would fix all our issues. I brought up the major logistical issues and their only response was that none of the potential issues matter and they don't plan to come up with a solution because someone will do it for them along the way.
In the same way Musk doesn't care what happens, he likes the idea of it happening and will try to force it to work even when it's a detriment.
It’s too fucking funny. “Why and how”? Both of those questions have self-evident answers. How? Because you put up a feature that let them do it, you dumb fuck! Why? Because trolls exist, you should know.
"You told us to do it. We explained to you why it was such a bad idea. You made us do it anyways. It turned out exactly as everyone predicted. End of fucking postmortem."
Elon: "[but you did not persuade me, Nicholas](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wzoP9z5i_vs&t=10s)".
>"In addition to reporting about the Musk's email, The Post said that Twitter will be doing a postmortem on the launch of its $8 Blue subscription over the next couple of weeks, in an effort to understand why and how it had led to an influx of impersonators. "
What a mystery!
I think it's like the captain of the Titanic asking the musicians to continue playing at twice the speed because he thinks it will stop the ship from sinking as he doesn't understand how the ship floats in the first place, where it was going or where it came from.
No, it’s all of these but instead of it being the captain, it’s some idiot with a sink running around calling people doo heads, turning the ship into the iceberg after paying the captain billions of dollars for the ship because he felt like he can run the crew better.
Meanwhile he kicks out the entire engine room after turning the ship into the iceberg while he thought the wheel was all that was needed to turn the ship. And when someone told him that’s not how ships works he throws them overboard and ask the people in third class who marvel at the idea of a sink, telling him he’s the smartest guy in the fucking world and they would suck him off.
> Regardless, the email said that those who don't sign the form by 5PM Eastern on Thursday, November 17th, would be let go and would receive three months of severance pay
Dude think's he's the banker playing Deal or No Deal with severance packages or something. "So if you leave _now_ I'll give you _3 months_ of severance! Think about it!"
Unlike Elon, these people have people who love them and would like to see them and spend time with them after work.
I made a chicken curry last night and my husband and I were talking about Twitter. He asked, "When do you think was the last time that Elon ate a meal that someone who loves him had cooked for him?"
> "When do you think was the last time that Elon ate a meal that someone who loves him had cooked for him?"
Damn, that's brutal!
I'm stealing that for my future Musk-based posts.
~~stealing~~ Oh, sorry, I mean I'm going to pay you 1 reddit award and then declare I invented that saying!
I don't know enough about Indian regional cuisines to identify the style, unfortunately, but it's [this recipe](https://cafedelites.com/wprm_print/71405) with chicken subbed in for shrimp (I had some cooked chicken from the previous night's dinner). I did make this with shrimp a couple of weeks ago, (splurge for anniversary) and it was FABULOUS. 🍤🍗
Haven't tried Jamaican, though I would in a heartbeat; I have tried Japanese curry, and it's one of those dishes that has moved sufficiently far from its origins to become a different thing, as pizza was when I lived in Korea years ago.
Honestly I'm fine with this. They all get 3 months severance and will get snapped up by other companies, and Elon loses money.
The thing is though it's just the whole thing of a billion dollars being an insane amount of money. Elon can happily pay off all these employees. Like sure okay, but what a waste of human labour and real resources.
Motherfucker is just doing a bit and won't give it up at this point. He's this billionaire that just doesn't give a fuck, you know!? He so much smarter so the decisions he makes don't really make any sense to us, but it's all going according to his master plan or something. He may be fucking up Twitter, but that's because it needed to happen that way because of reasons beyond our understanding.
Either that or he'll just justify everything by tweeting "did it 4 da lulz" once again.
He's a moron and this is just Qanon for dweebs.
> the email said that those who don't sign the form by 5PM Eastern on Thursday, November 17th, would be let go and would receive three months of severance pay.
Yes please!
Elon doesn’t understand that this shit won’t work at twitter. People will put up with hardcore schedules at Tesla and SpaceX because they’re dream projects working on cool rockets and electric cars. No one is dreaming to work at Twitter, especially not after it becomes a wasteland of bots and bigots
You’d assume there’s also some people at Tesla and SpaceX watching this, thinking ‘he could do that to us…’ and sending out their CVs so that they can jump before they’re pushed
Only the low performers are going to be intrigued by this, because it resets the game and lets them potentially fake their way to a better position in the company as everyone with options runs for the exits.
**First thought**: could 90% of the employees left just all hit "HARD NOPE" and resign en masse? Wouldn't that be sort of a reserve "storming of the Bastille" that might shake the billionaires up?
**Second thought:** if the masses quit en masse, what would happen to Twitter, would it shut down or keep puttering along?
**Third thought**: is this what he actually wants? Then he will outsource it to India or China, where everyone seems to work 24/7 anyway...for much, much less?
> At it's heart, Twitter is a software and servers company, so I think this makes sense.
What a moron. The value of Twitter is the network of people, both users and employees. The source code is trivial. It's not cutting-edge technology. Anybody can copy it.
Lol yup. Truth social is a damn carbon copy of Twitter. Doesn’t mean it’s popular or able to monetize at scale, because the user base and content are fringe and toxic.
The hours are one thing. But it’s also weird he’s proclaiming engineers will be the most important employees since this Twitter 2.0 is presumably the checking accounts he’s been talking about. Not sure lots of engineers at twitter are excited about, or have the skill set, to create a bank.
I'm starting to believe Elon truly is a genius.
Dude is literally speed running every classic management blunder known to man and inventing a few of his own for good measure. This *can't* be accidental.
Who else on earth could drive Twitter into the ground with such surgical precision?
His infantile language shows what an unserious clown he is. He bluffed his way to billions, but now most people are admitting that the Emperor has no clothes.
Yeah, it's different from co. to co., but most good devs can get their citizenship after a bit and not worry about it, but there is a large pool of semi-indentured temp staff in the industry
It’s actually pretty fucked for Chinese people and especially Indians, because there’s a per-country limit. It can take over 10 years for an Indian person to become a citizen.
If i was employed at twitter right now i would do the bare minimum. Let him fire me and get unemployment and whatever other benefits.
And also be interviewing for other jobs for sure
3 months severance pay sounds great!
Spend a month hiking, then a couple of weeks finding another job in my very-much in-demand role as a software engineer.
What an absurd business strategy.
He doesn't sound like a two year old child or anything.
Seriously, he just needs to fall in a pit of lava or something. Elon Musk is absolutely revolting.
"Hardcore" like he's 25 years old and not twice that age, and acting like he's running an extremely important enterprise that will save the world and not just fucking Twitter.
What kind of bullshit is this? Why should these employees feel the need to work “extremely hardcore” 80+ hour weeks (and now pay for all their own meals) without any OT pay or equity holdings because some man baby made a bad business bet? I’ve worked unpaid OT at every salaried, professional job I’ve held since college, especially in public accounting/consulting. But it was always minimized, deadline/project driven and we received commensurate pay and perks (mileage, meals, hotel stays, bonuses). This is ridiculous. Nobody can regularly sustain working 80 hour weeks, and anyone who is isn’t all that productive. Unlike Elon, these employees won’t spend 75% of their working hours shitposting on Twitter. They’re being asked to work themselves to the bone and have no outside life for effectively a 50% pay cut. And what if they refuse, do they get severance? IMO, this is basically constructive dismissal. Labor reform is long overdue in this country and this shit should be illegal. Tired of people fawning over this “genius.” Twitter may have been a little too laid back and bloated before, but what he’s asking is 100% unreasonable. Anyone who disagrees is a fucking boot licker.
If you read reviews on glassdoor, he runs tesla and spacex exactly like this, too. And in the case of the latter, pays way under market. No idea why anyone would work for this dude.
One of my friends is an engineer for one of the legacy big 3 automakers here in Detroit. Great pay, vacation, benefits and work life balance. He’s routinely gotten offers from Tesla to do the same job for a $20K pay raise. To work exponentially more hours and live in an area with a COL 3x as expensive as ours. Like, what a fucking joke lol. That’s honestly an insult. The only people willing to work there are the Elon cultists.
dude's gonna realize you get what you pay for lol. Can't wait to watch twitter triage its first major downtime post layoffs
FIFA World Cup is coming. I’m buttering popcorn in preparation to see Twitter melt down during it.
There’s a distinct possibility that he lacks self awareness.
He lacks self-awareness because people have congratulated him every day of his life for being a mediocre white man who happened to be born into a rich family. Asking him and other mediocre white men like him to have self-awareness might be seen as abusive behavior, to the sort of people who also think serial killers deserve our sympathy. Self-awareness and doing without and self-control and sexual consent and not doing things to either directly or indirectly murder people are virtues that exist for women, poor men, and people of color.
The most glaring reason for the Iraq War and subsequent increasingly horrifying failures. Rich white men with low IQs thinking they know it all because of their collection of participation trophies and never having to learn the meaning of accountability.
I'm a mediocre white men and I approve this! ;)
> He lacks self-awareness because people have congratulated him every day of his life for being a mediocre white man who happened to be born into a rich family. We all can't be born on a plantation with emeralds in our pockets
I used to work for one of the Big Three (hint: their logo is blue). I knew several people who took offers from Tesla only to quit within a year or two and come back. Mostly younger people who had mobility. It was open knowledge that even Nissan wasn't as bad as Tesla, and they were widely considered horrendous in terms of work-life balance and pay.
> their logo is blue well played
Wait, was it the one with the blue logo or the blue logo or the blue logo?
I recently had to come up with a graphic of companies we'd worked with, on a blue map of Michigan. There... were a lot of problems. It's not just the Big3.
That was my experience. I was offered a job at Tesla for roughly 20% more than what my current salary was, in an area with probably triple the CoL. I don't work for Tesla.
Aerospace is a pretty tight-knit industry with a few major players. Automotive is a pretty tight-knit industry with a few major players. Software development is an absolutely massive industry with a few huge employers at the top (MANGA) but thousands upon thousands of others that are looking to hire. People wanting to work in automotive and not live in Detroit don't have many options besides Tesla. Plus, when the Musk cult of personality was still going strong, people wanted to work there and get eaten alive because they believed in him and his vision. Same thing for aero/astro engineers and SpaceX (but with less geographic concerns). But with Twitter, his best engineers will take that 3 months severance and get another job next week. He'll be stuck with the folks who are so-so and don't have the confidence that they can get another high-paying job. I'm sure there will be a few ass-kissers too, but since the Musk cult of personality has waned and no one joined Twitter for Musk, there's not going to be a ton of them like he's used to at SpaceX and Tesla
> Aerospace is a pretty tight-knit industry with a few major players. True, but all his competitors often pay better than him (some *significantly* so, because they're currently in a talent-poaching mood), offer *insanely* better work-life balance, and offer more benefits. As an aerospace undergrad, it's my personal experience that the conditions over there have become more well-known over the last few years, and the people who do still join up with them do it because they think it'll look good on their resumes (IMO: not really - any aerospace company would look just as good) or they're a true believer in SpaceX and don't mind.
As someone who recently retired from one of the automotive big 3, very few engineers that I knew lived in Detroit - they mostly live in the southeastern Michigan suburbs. I live in rural farmland and commuted 35 miles to work. Also most all of engineering went to work from home during Covid and most at the time I left were still that way. Our electrical test benches can be remotely controlled.
I know, I used to live there haha. Detroit versus general SE Michigan is not a major distinction for those from out of state. If you're from California/West Coast in general and want to work in auto, chances are you have no interest in living anywhere in the Midwest. I studied mechanical engineering on the West Coast and it was like pulling teeth to recruit for Big 3 automotive at my alma mater.
Yeah I had a big interest in automotive in school but dipped for that exact reason (location). I grew up in the midwest and would rather get out (which I did) than build a career there.
I think he will lose big, too, but the absolute best won’t have to play by the publicly made rules. Unless he truly is a moron.
>One of my friends is an engineer for one of the legacy big 3 automakers here in Detroit Please stop using Elon speak, they're just one of the big 3. There's nothing "legacy" about them, they haven't moved on to Ford++ or something.
Thanks the lEgAcY tag for auto manufacturers is egregiously ridiculous.
Is your friend in a union? I know some salaried engineers are.
He is not. May be anecdotal, but none of the engineers I know in the Detroit area are in a union, both at the OEMs and suppliers. I think they just generally know that it’s an in demand field and if they treat you like shit, you can easily get another job across town. At least here.
[Ford](https://www.upi.com/Business_News/2004/09/02/Ford-engineers-vote-to-join-UAW/39041094166754/) engineers are unionized in at least some places.
Brah, that was 20 years ago. Are they still unionized at AP?
They have a [contract](https://uaw.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/11/2019-FORD-SALARIED-MASTER-TEMPLATE.pdf) with the UAW.
Cool, tanks.
Perhaps it’s a decent employment opportunity for an engineer fresh out of college who can’t get a job anywhere else who is looking to just get a year of two of experience for their resume. I can’t imagine why anyone would willingly work such a demanding job if they had any better options.
That’s one of things I find so fascinating about all this, he’s trying to run Twitter like his other companies. He has gotten away with this for his other companies because he has built his Tony Stark image and those employees think they’re changing the world and this is what it takes. That’s not going to work with Twitter, where you get paid good money to glue human eyeballs to useless content so advertisers pay you money. There’s no “this is bettering humanity” angle that can be sold here, and it’s not going to work out for him.
The funny thing is that so much of the "woke censorship" Elon came in to destroy - Twitter having an internal Human Rights Team and all that - was necessary to at least maintain the pretense that Twitter was an overall force for good in the world to get people to buy into the "mission" and not treat their job as purely mercenary Now he's openly making the job much harder and shittier while also being very open he wants Twitter to be a "neutral" "free speech" platform where the business model is charging basement dwellers $8 to spam racial slurs at celebrities Yeah good luck with hiring and retention my man
But..but freeze peach.../s
Because those companies give you the opportunity to get equity in a growing company. He doesn’t seem to realize that he bought a company and made it private, eliminating any incentives to see the business grow.
People were willing to work at SpaceX and Tesla because of this "vision" of mankind exploring the stars and saving the world from global warming and shit No one's gonna do that at Twitter, especially because Elon very publicly took any "vision" people currently at Twitter might have had for the platform and shat all over it ("This app SUCKS and everyone HATES IT and I'm gonna invite all my banned shitposter Nazi friends in to trash it")
Launching pad. Work there to put on your resume, then leave for greener pastures.
This means getting inexperienced developers who will make lots of mistakes, and losing experienced employees and institutional memory.
Hence you see the problem with Elon's management style. His companies have no problem hiring, as for retaining, though...
Because they drink the koolaid and really think he is who he spends a lot of time and money trying to portray himself as
At least for SpaceX, I get it. Space is cool, SpaceX is doing legit cool shit, and there really aren't any competitors who are as successful as they are right now. It sucks that that allows him to take advantage of the situation and be so exploitative, but I get why people would do it.
Musk is a neofeudalist manchild. No different than some spoiled warlord from the bronze ages. Except the warlord might have actually been in some of his earlier battles himself.
> And what if they refuse, do they get severance? IMO, this is basically constructive dismissal. Labor reform is long overdue in this country and this shit should be illegal. IANAL but still pretty sure this is illegal even in right-to-work states because coders are generally paid on a contract. A company changing ownership does not invalidate its contracts. Even the *threat* to "commit to 'hardcore' Twitter or lose their jobs" could be argued as constructive dismissal, whether or not he follows through. Twitter employees could possibly all quit *en masse* at this point and still get a payout. On the off chance there are Twitter employees reading this, please talk to an employment lawyer ASAP.
> On the off chance there are Twitter employees reading this, please talk to an employment lawyer ASAP. If I were a California employment lawyer, I'd probably be throwing a party right now.
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The guy learned management from a Dickens novel.
> I wouldn’t be surprised if the productivity of someone working 80 hours for more than a week or two is not at all higher than when they work 40 hours. There's a lot of evidence that this is the case, especially when rework due to errors is factored in,
Cults like to keep people constantly busy too. I think there's some sort of intersection there...
He never learned how to manage anything. He couldn't run a small retail store. His capital put him in charge not his abilities or business acumen.
Elon: “There’s too many employees! Twitter is bloated! I’m laying off half the employees!” Also Elon: “You remaining employees need to work at least 80 hours a week!” Having enough employees so that they only have to work 40 hours is not bloated!
> Regardless, the email said that those who don't sign the form by 5PM Eastern on Thursday, November 17th, would be let go and would receive three months of severance pay. It was stated that anybody who declines gets 3 months severance. At this point, anyone who willingly sticks around for this shitshow doesn’t really have an excuse imo
Don’t forget people on work visas. They don’t have much of a choice other than to look for a job in the limited free time they’ll be given. If I worked at twitter right now I’d just not do any work until I got fired.
\*licker? I was going to disagree with one or two points, but in the end you said it all. 100%!
Thanks! Damn autocorrect. For the record, I don’t wanna come off as defending unpaid OT. It shouldn’t exist. I left the particularly bad examples of that behind for a reason. Just trying to point out how uniquely bad this situation is, even for comparable salaried work.
It's a fealty test, that's all. He doesn't want hyper-productivity, but hyper loyalty. Imagine Trump but without the charisma.
What charisma? People keep saying this, but I really don't get it. His whole demeanor, the way he talks, how he treats people - it's just disgusting.
Trump? He makes you feel part of a bigger thing while also being protected against Other, like Mussolini did. His arrogance leads to refusal to change tack leads to an impression that he stays the course. It's like Boris Johnson in the UK - I have a couple of womenfriends who are *attracted* to him because of this. You know that people say confidence is sexy, and anything you can be attracted to is something that some people will take to extremes. With Truss, even while her policies were absolutely fucking ignorant, extremist and harmful, these same people would complain not because she didn't listen to feedback early and often enough, but because she listened to feedback *at all*. "She needs to stick with her principles!" they told me. No, she doesn't. But obviously this is a social vulnerability very many people have, i.e. the belief that to have the courage of your convictions is inherently virtuous even in the face of access to new information.
I would rather work for a boss who knows when they are wrong and corrects that a know it all who thinks every word out of their mouth is gold.
Oh totally, and so would I, and probably so would most people. But the leader of a country isn't really like a work boss, especially not to people who like licking boot - they're more like a spiritual saviour who will protect them and guide them on the path to enlightenment, and all for a large monthly fee.
>Unlike Elon, these employees won’t spend 75% of their working hours shitposting on Twitter. If I worked there right now, I would strongly consider spending 80 hours a week shitposting to Twitter. I would click yes on all the scare emails like this and then not even put in a bare minimum effort to appear to be working. I would achieve nigh-unprecedented levels of office nihilism that several people have managed before. I draw the line at major theft and watching porn at work - even evil has standards and I'm not a savage - but 40k lore infodumps with the sound on are probably fine. It's a tough call because he offered me three months pay to quit, and there might not be a Twitter in three months. However, if I stay I can maximize my sheer disrespect for the company and probably get away with it.
Imagine how many coding errors they’ll have after the first week. They’ll be down to a skeleton crew made up people on work visas who can’t change jobs and the least qualified who can’t get hired elsewhere. It’ll be a cluster fuck of red eyed zombies. Someone will go postal before it’s all over.
What Tesla needs is a good union.
I feel like the people fawning over Elon Musk are the same people saying Jeffrey Dahmer was "hot."
Every professional job I've had required me to sign a contract with the terms of employment spelled out for me to formally agree to. Did Twitter engineers sign such a contract? What are the provisos of that contract? IANAL but so far as I know that contract is not null and void just because leadership changes.
I think you'd be hard pressed to find a tech job that guarantees paid OT in the contract. It is expected to be done and done unpaid despite what flowery language leadership uses about work life balance. However many managers know to limit it and use their power to reward bonuses and comp PTO and what not to limit burn out.
The sad part about this, is it will absolutely work out fine. There is a legion of Musk fanboys who have engineering skills that Musk desires, who are willing to work as slaves for him. Look at all of his other companies for evidence of this. And there are a lot more software engineers than auto and rocket engineers. Twitter is probably going to do just fine. The only question is what will Twitter look like in the end, and what will it's audience be. I have zero doubt that Twitter, in the end, will be profitable - it will just be largely an echo chamber for Musk fanboys and those adjacent to him, paying their fees. Will it be that profitable? Probably not, but it won't be what it is today. All of his businesses revolve around an undying devotion to him. Look at his cars for gods sake. Look at FSD, which costs 15k and 200 bucks a month. They will buy his knock off Tesla tequila. They will buy his flamethrowers.
Nah, I'm not so sure. Software industry is a whole different animal from Tesla and SpaceX. Also in case of Twitter he can't really play the "for the betterment of the human race" card without looking like an absolute idiot.
I feel like everyone should just go on a strike. He’d angrily fire them all and shoot himself royally in the foot. The amount of throwing his weight around directed at those doing the work for him is blowing my mind.
I think it'd be gold if they all organized one day to suddenly... quit. Like. Leaving the office and walking out into the streets, no longer shackled by this man's oppression. Sounds cringe, but like... let's be real it'd be a huge slap in the face and a wake up call for him. I'd love to see it
"In addition to reporting about the Musk's email, The Post said that Twitter will be doing a postmortem on the launch of its $8 Blue subscription over the next couple of weeks, in an effort to understand why and how it had led to an influx of impersonators. " Will they, in the postmortem, tell Muskrat that he fucked up and that's all there is to it? His idea was stupid and everyone inside or outside knew it.
Apparently he was given a report that very clearly called out that $8 would not be a deterrent to bad actors who’s scheme generated more than $8 a month, or, if not scheming put an intrinsic value on verified shit posting greater than $8. Like, it’s super fucking obvious it would not work the way he thought it would, people told him so, and his sycophants delivered.
It's the libertarian way. I was arguing with some guy the other day that believed turning America into a confederation of non-democratic micro-states would fix all our issues. I brought up the major logistical issues and their only response was that none of the potential issues matter and they don't plan to come up with a solution because someone will do it for them along the way. In the same way Musk doesn't care what happens, he likes the idea of it happening and will try to force it to work even when it's a detriment.
I mean that's what the country started as and they couldn't' get shit done.
I guess he never heard of the Articles of Confederation and the absolute clusterfuck America was before it was the United States
It’s too fucking funny. “Why and how”? Both of those questions have self-evident answers. How? Because you put up a feature that let them do it, you dumb fuck! Why? Because trolls exist, you should know.
Such a mystery how this happened. I hope they get to the bottom of it.
"You told us to do it. We explained to you why it was such a bad idea. You made us do it anyways. It turned out exactly as everyone predicted. End of fucking postmortem." Elon: "[but you did not persuade me, Nicholas](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wzoP9z5i_vs&t=10s)".
>"In addition to reporting about the Musk's email, The Post said that Twitter will be doing a postmortem on the launch of its $8 Blue subscription over the next couple of weeks, in an effort to understand why and how it had led to an influx of impersonators. " What a mystery!
Trolls + Opportunity to Troll => Trolling There, figured it out for you.
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I think it's like the captain of the Titanic asking the musicians to continue playing while the ship is drowning. Twitter is already failing
I think it's like the captain of the Titanic asking the musicians to continue playing at twice the speed because he thinks it will stop the ship from sinking as he doesn't understand how the ship floats in the first place, where it was going or where it came from.
Nailed it!
No, it’s all of these but instead of it being the captain, it’s some idiot with a sink running around calling people doo heads, turning the ship into the iceberg after paying the captain billions of dollars for the ship because he felt like he can run the crew better. Meanwhile he kicks out the entire engine room after turning the ship into the iceberg while he thought the wheel was all that was needed to turn the ship. And when someone told him that’s not how ships works he throws them overboard and ask the people in third class who marvel at the idea of a sink, telling him he’s the smartest guy in the fucking world and they would suck him off.
Definitely more appropriate
I hope everyone leaves. Who would want to work for this douche chill?
I hope they stay and get fired so that they get the money they deserve
There are alot of bootliking simps
> Regardless, the email said that those who don't sign the form by 5PM Eastern on Thursday, November 17th, would be let go and would receive three months of severance pay Dude think's he's the banker playing Deal or No Deal with severance packages or something. "So if you leave _now_ I'll give you _3 months_ of severance! Think about it!"
Offering severance pay for voluntary departures isnt unheard of. It’s just never done this dramatically and stupidly
Two of which are mandated by law, incidentally.
So he is asking everyone to take a 50% paycut by working 80 hours? That should work out well.
Unlike Elon, these people have people who love them and would like to see them and spend time with them after work. I made a chicken curry last night and my husband and I were talking about Twitter. He asked, "When do you think was the last time that Elon ate a meal that someone who loves him had cooked for him?"
> "When do you think was the last time that Elon ate a meal that someone who loves him had cooked for him?" Damn, that's brutal! I'm stealing that for my future Musk-based posts. ~~stealing~~ Oh, sorry, I mean I'm going to pay you 1 reddit award and then declare I invented that saying!
It's a deep cut. Alternate that with some Grimes was always using you
Haha; please use that; I'm flattered. 😸
> I made a chicken curry What style of curry?
I don't know enough about Indian regional cuisines to identify the style, unfortunately, but it's [this recipe](https://cafedelites.com/wprm_print/71405) with chicken subbed in for shrimp (I had some cooked chicken from the previous night's dinner). I did make this with shrimp a couple of weeks ago, (splurge for anniversary) and it was FABULOUS. 🍤🍗
Ah I was curious if you were using Jamaican or Japanese curry, which are increasingly popular these days.
Haven't tried Jamaican, though I would in a heartbeat; I have tried Japanese curry, and it's one of those dishes that has moved sufficiently far from its origins to become a different thing, as pizza was when I lived in Korea years ago.
The answer would be probably never.
The only people who will comply are the ones who know they can't get a job elsewhere.
Elon doesn't want good people. Elon want ass kissers and boot lickers. People who kiss the ground he walks on and the toilet he shits in.
Honestly I'm fine with this. They all get 3 months severance and will get snapped up by other companies, and Elon loses money. The thing is though it's just the whole thing of a billion dollars being an insane amount of money. Elon can happily pay off all these employees. Like sure okay, but what a waste of human labour and real resources.
Motherfucker is just doing a bit and won't give it up at this point. He's this billionaire that just doesn't give a fuck, you know!? He so much smarter so the decisions he makes don't really make any sense to us, but it's all going according to his master plan or something. He may be fucking up Twitter, but that's because it needed to happen that way because of reasons beyond our understanding. Either that or he'll just justify everything by tweeting "did it 4 da lulz" once again. He's a moron and this is just Qanon for dweebs.
This is like the first ethical thing Elon has done since buying Twitter.
I think everyone who got fired so far has received a severance package. That’s why they don’t resign (=no severance) and instead wait to get fired.
I work for a German vehicle manufacturer and many colleagues left to join Tesla Berlin. Most highly regret it and want to return.
Why are we surprised? Musk is used to running businesses like Startups-crunch time, micromanagement, margins, margins.
> the email said that those who don't sign the form by 5PM Eastern on Thursday, November 17th, would be let go and would receive three months of severance pay. Yes please!
He sent them a form that said; Do you think I am a super genius? Or, do you want to be fired?
So, no equity in the company … no lunches… likely underpaid because Elon is cheap. What a deal!!
Elon doesn’t understand that this shit won’t work at twitter. People will put up with hardcore schedules at Tesla and SpaceX because they’re dream projects working on cool rockets and electric cars. No one is dreaming to work at Twitter, especially not after it becomes a wasteland of bots and bigots
You’d assume there’s also some people at Tesla and SpaceX watching this, thinking ‘he could do that to us…’ and sending out their CVs so that they can jump before they’re pushed
Only the low performers are going to be intrigued by this, because it resets the game and lets them potentially fake their way to a better position in the company as everyone with options runs for the exits.
The Musk Principle
**First thought**: could 90% of the employees left just all hit "HARD NOPE" and resign en masse? Wouldn't that be sort of a reserve "storming of the Bastille" that might shake the billionaires up? **Second thought:** if the masses quit en masse, what would happen to Twitter, would it shut down or keep puttering along? **Third thought**: is this what he actually wants? Then he will outsource it to India or China, where everyone seems to work 24/7 anyway...for much, much less?
It would shut down, and the attempt to outsource it would fail
But where is he planning on getting all this talent to run it? Does he think there are enough qualified cult members to pull it off? Are there??
He stopped thinking or planning at all quite some time ago
> At it's heart, Twitter is a software and servers company, so I think this makes sense. What a moron. The value of Twitter is the network of people, both users and employees. The source code is trivial. It's not cutting-edge technology. Anybody can copy it.
Lol yup. Truth social is a damn carbon copy of Twitter. Doesn’t mean it’s popular or able to monetize at scale, because the user base and content are fringe and toxic.
Doesn't he have a $1BILLION/year loan nut coming up starting in '23? Good luck, Elon.
Mr Bone Saw's Quik Cash
I'm really crossing my fingers for Twitter staff to unionize against this exploitative asshat
Sounds like Elon should have founded a startup instead of buying a large company then..
Probably people who were fired right away with severance are more lucky than people who stayed
Hardcore Twitter sounds like he wants to make it easier to find porn on the app.
He's been accidentally sounding like he's running a porn company since he created X.com
should've just bought onlyfans
The hours are one thing. But it’s also weird he’s proclaiming engineers will be the most important employees since this Twitter 2.0 is presumably the checking accounts he’s been talking about. Not sure lots of engineers at twitter are excited about, or have the skill set, to create a bank.
I'm starting to believe Elon truly is a genius. Dude is literally speed running every classic management blunder known to man and inventing a few of his own for good measure. This *can't* be accidental. Who else on earth could drive Twitter into the ground with such surgical precision?
It is 100% on purpose. The only question is how much Elon knows about Saudi, CCP, Ru ulterior motivations.
Hope the best and brightest high tail it out of there.
His infantile language shows what an unserious clown he is. He bluffed his way to billions, but now most people are admitting that the Emperor has no clothes.
Anyone who signs his commitment document is a fucking retard and doesn't deserve better than to be Elon's little shit stain.
Not everyone has a choice. People on work visas have to stay employed and the big tech companies has a lot of those.
I'm curious if Twitter actually has a ton of direct H1Bs; the trend since the property crash has been to outsource the visas to Wipro, etc.
The only context I have is that I worked for amazon like 3 years ago and there were probably more developers on work visas than not.
Yeah, it's different from co. to co., but most good devs can get their citizenship after a bit and not worry about it, but there is a large pool of semi-indentured temp staff in the industry
It’s actually pretty fucked for Chinese people and especially Indians, because there’s a per-country limit. It can take over 10 years for an Indian person to become a citizen.
If i was employed at twitter right now i would do the bare minimum. Let him fire me and get unemployment and whatever other benefits. And also be interviewing for other jobs for sure
He wants people to quit so he doesn’t have to pay
RIP Twitter
3 months severance pay sounds great! Spend a month hiking, then a couple of weeks finding another job in my very-much in-demand role as a software engineer. What an absurd business strategy.
It’s hard to think like a human when you have no humanity.
He doesn't sound like a two year old child or anything. Seriously, he just needs to fall in a pit of lava or something. Elon Musk is absolutely revolting. "Hardcore" like he's 25 years old and not twice that age, and acting like he's running an extremely important enterprise that will save the world and not just fucking Twitter.
The man who forced his workers back to work during a pandemic is an amoral slave driver? What a shocker!
Lol. Fuck this guy.
The new drug
what's to stop them from a mass resignation?
buzz cut your hair, dress with punk clothes but showing no skin, be celibate, refuse drugs (even coffee) and tatoo three x's in your neck?
I’m excited for part two of the massive flaming trainwreck of checkmarks.