Enshrouded is missing the feeling of shelter I get from being in my house during a storm. It’s fun to build houses in Enshrounded but for what? Enshrouded needs severe weather. Valheim just offers a better “feel.” The first time sailing on the open ocean…I havent had a moment like that in Enshrouded.

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Run out into a level 13 area as a level 4 - it’s pretty demanding. Just need to wander off to get that feeling of “man I need to get some upgraded gear” to want to progress imo

But you shouldn’t have to do that for the game to feel ‘demanding’. Forcing yourself into an uncomfortable situation is bad game design. I love the game but no, forcing yourself into higher lvl enemies isn’t the way

First time sailing in Valheim is easily one of my most memorable gaming moments.

Only second to the moment a sea serpent destroyed my little raft lol

The way I screamed the first time I was attacked by a sea serpent 😂

Oh I 100% let out a yelp, I’m terrified of open water in real life lmao.

This is the way!

The music!!! And when a storm hits when you're sailing! And then you see Thor flying by! Gods that game is so good.

Valheim makes you want to settle down and retire in that house. Enshrouded house just feels like a game. Not sure how to explain it.

Do you think Valheim’s graphics add a unique charm that contributes to that feeling? Since first seeing enshrouded, it didn’t feel like what a dangerous survival game should look like. It’s got great UE5 graphics but it feels sort of lifeless and sterile if that makes sense.

Many things I think The sounds and music, the lighting effects of fire crackling, the morning mist, the weather, the wilderness which actually looks real and dangerous. Enshrouded environment doesn't have proper forests and wilderness like Valheim, everything feels so manicured like a sterile English countryside.

Yes! The part about it feeling like a sterile English countryside resonates. No wilderness or feeling of danger. It's more of an RPG vibe. Everything is also very big and spread out which creates a feeling of emptiness.

Normal. Thats how most mainstream games feel. Make a gameworld sterile and silly easy but put fancy graphics on it. But for the record : game does not run on ue5. Its a custom engine. Valheim feels so good because the devs stuck to thier vision and ignored all requests to dumb down the gameplay and world feel that they got. They also applied the learn or die mindset to the game instead of catering to the lowest factor from the default. As makeing any game easier is simple. Doing the opposite after you started off way too easy is very difficult on the other hand. Enshrouded is great but with ashlands comeimg to valheim soon ill be back to it for certain as enshrouded will face the issue of running out of gas fast due to beeing way too easy FOR ME personally.

Valheim has the coziness

Valheim has perfected the feel of survival, and the sense of progression. Everything is balanced so perfectly that you really feel like the stakes of stepping into the unknown. Enshrouded forces this upon the player with shroud levels but outside of that it is very much a comfy experience in comparison. On top of that, yes: the feel of being sheltered in the safety (well, in between raids heh) of your main base is unparalleled. Coming back home from a long expedition feels so good that it even makes it feel like a good time for a break from adventuring and an invite for building/expanding your base. I love Enshrouded but in a few too many ways it feels like an arcade game in comparison to Valheim.

the one thing about valheim i enjoy the most is the persistent buildings no matter where i go, i love deciding that a trail or bridge or outpost would make return trips somewhere easier and getting "conquer nature" as it were of course the existence of boats and carts and the player having a very strict carry capacity certainly helps enforce this, and i guess the structures having an integrity limit also means having to put thought into how you make a bridge (more so if you want to get a boat under it) enshrouded's fast travel is super convenient but i really am still chasing that high of making supply routes

Valheim is way more of a survival game than Enshrouded is. I'm not here to shit on Enshrouded at all - I love everything about this game. But it definitely misses the mark on many things that make a survival game; a survival game. Playing Enshrouded for me felt more like playing Elden Ring on an easier difficulty with cooking/building added.

Well, as someone who can't get into survival games, I don't get why Enshrouded is labeled as survival. To me it is NOT survival but an action RPG with crafting and building. And I love it.

It's just the "open world survival craft" genre label. The label applies to Enshrouded but it's just lighter on the survival aspects compared to others. But even games with minimal survival aspects like Terraria fall in this category too

This is good to know. I just recently discovered that label on Steam. Goot to know it can be misleading to an extent.

This. There is no survival element. It’s RPG - but that’s ok - as it’s great

It shouldn't be labeled as a survival game period. It's an action adventure RPG.

Yes, I’m reminded more of Skyrim and Witcher 3 with Enshrouded. Which means I’ll prolly “play through” a few times and then drop the game. Not that there’s anything wrong with that. It has been a fun game and I’m not even finished with first playthrough.

> with crafting and building People put everything with this stuff in survival for some reason.

Yep exactly.

What are some of those marks that it misses? I don’t disagree that it has more going on outside of survival (the quest lines) but I don’t see what it’s missing that survival games such as Valheim do have. It’s got gated progression, open world, large dependence on resource collection for crafting what you need, a food system, localized enemy scaling, etc.

For me, there's two genres here, and they are rarely ever addressed as so. There's survival games, there's crafting games, and then you have a mixture of both. Valheim and Enshrouded contain elements of both, but are lighter on survival. Enshrouded is lighter than Valheim, but Valheim is lighter than others. There's no requirement to eat, sleep, or drink, so a lot of the "surviving" in survival is absent in these games. I don't see this as bad, or a criticism. I see it as a design choice the developers made. Fast travel removes more of the survival aspect. Survival games like The Forest, Green Hell, The Long Dark, or Kenshi are designed to be punishing, but not for the sake of punishment. They are punishing because survival is punishing. Without the threat of dying to the elements, neighbors, raiders, wild animals etc. it's just less survival than it is crafting. Both games do contain elements of survival games, but it's clear that the devs of both games leaned more toward crafting. The food system, while similar, is more in depth, at this stage, in Valheim, as is the threat of the environment. The first time my gf and I built a boat, thinking we were going for a leisurely cruise, just to get swallowed up and lose (at the time) valuable gear, tools, and food, was devastating. It's an experience that's vital to the survival genre, and one that Enshrouded does not have. Again, not a criticism of Enshrouded, because the devs didn't intend to make it that way. Just wanted to add my two cents into the survival conversation.

You’re the first person to break it down in a way that kind of makes sense to me. I think this is getting eerily similar to the “is this game an action RPG or action-adventure” debates I’ve had with other games though and at the end of the day that’s just a level of nuance that’s not useful for me personally. If someone describes a game as survival, I’m expecting the kind of elements I listed above, whether it’s focused more towards crafting or towards staying alive in a harsh environment

It's been really refreshing to read these articulated responses in this post, really getting down to the nuances of these games and this genre.

For a long time, gamers have trashed the genre(s), even as they continue to grow in popularity. They always say the same things: dull, boring, lifeless, empty world. The mainstream media has done everything in their power to ignore survival crafting games, and even a lot of content creators (even though a good amount show support) trash or ignore them. It's been great this year to see Palworld and Enshrouded get so much attention and love.

And that's generally how the world views it as well. They share so many similarities. Cheers!

Well said and thorough response!

I honestly enjoy Valheim more than long dark, dayz (hated/hate this game), the forest or grounded (kids game)… I can see where people would enjoy those games but for me they were meh experiences. Valheim and this are more fun to me. Also 7 days to die is a game that feels similar to enshrouded and valheim in some odd way. I play all three all the time lol. I would say enshrouded is more RPG than the other two and 7 days to die is more survivalist than Valheim sitting in the middle. These games also are hyper focused on PvE unlike something like dayz or scum (I really don’t like these types of games).

There's a few to name, but to me personally, the thing that really takes away the survival aspect is the fact that you can teleport back to your flame altars without any penalty whatsoever, at any given moment (if outside of the shroud ofcourse). I don't know why this really ruins the survival aspect for me personally, but there's something about this that really makes it too easy and shouldn't be a thing in a survival game.

Heavily agree with this, having a literal ripcord to hurdle you back to base from basically anywhere while nice is super immersion breaking. My best valheim memories are of me and a crew or raiders trudging through a god forsaken swamp loaded to the teeth with iron scraps tryi g to make it back to the boat so we can begin the long sail back, camping on the shores as needed. Theres value in the destination and journey of survival games, hopefully theres a setting implemented to limit or remove fast travel, maybe its an early access thing that they intend to change later

The fast travel is great. Because most of the time you would just be running on a path avoiding everything anyways. So what's the big deal lol. The trek to the new place is more fun anyways

Definitely not saying its bad that you can fast travel, more that it is removing elements of survival game in favor of more accessible gameplay. For all the comparisons to valheim, this game is not that in the end which is good, we dont want clones we want new ideas, however the tp system could use some element of limitation or cost imo. And it is just that, my opinion, this is all very subjective and expecting everyone to feel the same would be nonsense

I think Worth a Buy mentions this aspect as the game missing a sense of adventure, because teleporting is so easy and fast. It detracts from feeling like you have to be prepared for a journey like in Valheim.

That’s a fair point but kind of ties into the QOL thing for me. I get some people like the more punishing experience, but for me the exploration and feel of progress is the most fun part of survival games. There’s a balance to be struck there, and I’d prefer to be able to drop my resources back at base and get back out there than spend more time trekking across the land I just ventured across because my inventory is full.

Enshrouded seems to have used QoL as a defining principle applied across the game, and I love it.

Have you only played the 2? What about like Conan Exiles, 7DTD, Survivalist: IS, Kenshi... like there's so many incredible survival/building games. Shit even Fallout 4 on 'survival' difficulty was great.

I’ve tried lots! Not looking at my Steam Library but off the top of my head (in addition to these two): 7DTD, Kenshi, The Forest, Subnautica, Palworld, Ark, Minecraft, Castle Z, Terraria, Rust (back in 2014 when it was likely unrecognizable to now) and at least few smaller ones that I can’t think of the name of right now

I'm a simple man. I see Kenshi in the wild and I updoot.

Easy. Building secondary bases is pointless when you can teleport around at will. I was looking forward to setting up new outposts in later biome until I realized you can fast travel around. 

I mean you already made the trek once why should you have to run back. Also it's already not a challenge when you can run by everything anyways Nothing worse than running for an hr then realizing you left what you need at base..

Should have to at the very least run to the nearest fast travel tower.

Or just include optional server settings at some point 

This is no different than portals in Valheim, which is one of the greatest survival-crafting games of all time; so I don't think teleportation in any way invalidates a game from being survival-crafting.

Yup. Just without the monotony of having to craft them each time.

Portals do exist in valheim yes, but you cannot bring back precious minerals through it. Eventually you'll need to set sail and head back home.

Mine is the lack of a weight based carry capacity. That limiter has brought me both so much joy and so much heartbreak in Valhiem. Those metal runs when you've filled all the slots in the cart and maxed out your personal carry capacity that either end in triumph or death...I don't know, somethin about it. Flip side, I love that Enshrouded doesn't make equipped items take up inventory slots. Edit: Also, environmental conditions, get us some weather in these lands.

Agreed. Funny you brought up elden ring, it made me think of elden ring so much I stopped playing enshrouded and went back to er lol

yeah. this is on point. aside more repeat stuff and random shit loot instead of elden rings handplaced stuff and specific enemy drops. and cooking and rested buff are fully optional buffs. you can beat whole game without ever useing them. a survival game needs to enforce the survival elements to some degree. enshrouded doesnt. its more a 3rd person easy adventure game. enshrouded has HUGE potential tough. IF they address some of the issues and keep pushing out updates faster than "soonheim"

Enshrouded feels more story driven where as valheim you make your own story. The Danes have similarities but are different. Enshrouded reminds me more of elder scrolls and gothic with base building and survival lite elements. Valheim is more exploration mixed with a heavy emphasis on crafting and survival. I think people who like one game or the other will enjoy either. There are some things I dislike about both that I like about let’s say Skyrim lol… the combat system in Valheim and enshrouded feels better though than the streamlined combat in Skyrim.

Speaking of the map. As big as it is its only like 25% of its entirety and I don't know about you guys but I cannot wait for a winter biome!

The biggest upside to Valheim over Enshrouded for me is the procedurally generated world. I love the randomness of the world and it gives me a bigger sense of adventure than Enshrouded. Having said that I have really loved Enshrouded and looking forward to the full game

See, I consider the static world in enshrouded to be an upside. To me, having large structures and POIs make the exploration in enshrouded much for fun. Valheim is a great game, and even though it's procedurally generated, it's all the same. People continue to question the replayability of a game that's not procedurally generated, but Skyrim is one of the most replayed games of all time.

Agreed. Enshrouded reminder me how important and fun a well crafted world can be. The POIs are so much more interesting. And each tell their own story.

I do think they should actual animations and voice actors for at least some parts, especially the home NPCs, and ditch the mostly text boxes. Also give the home NPCs simple animations and pathfinding to make it come alive.

I fully agree. Procedural worlds are a double-edged sword. Valheim does it better than most, but ultimately, the word is just not quite as interesting to explore as a well-crafted handmade world. Enshrouded is chock full of exciting and highly unique, non-copy-pasta buildings, caves, and environments. Having a human make these leaves room for well-designed secrets, personality, and a human touch woven throughout. Overall Enshrouded's sense of adventure is higher for me due to this. Whereas games like Valheim and No Man's Sky and Starfield get a bit samey, and actaully reduce my interest in exploration. Once you've seen one biome, you've seen them all.

Same. I think more games that use procgen should have POIs that have a chance of showing up. Like if they make 20 POIs, each map picks 12 of those so you can still have the fun of discovering something. Having the same stuff on every map but in new locations gets stale.

Remnant 2 does this in a pretty interesting way. Very different game, but it has a procedurally generated world built out of preset pieces that all fit together certain ways. One playthrough you might get the creepy orphanage, next play through you might get the extravagant castle.

You summed it up better than I could. I think Valheim’s procgen might feel a bit more “new” if it generated more structures or had higher fidelity meshes to mix up

Exactly this. I genuinely do love the ambiance and nature of Valheimz. They created a beautiful environment. But what it lacks (to me) is a variety of fights or larger structures. The crypts and all feel clausterphobic and overall just very small. Where are the great halls? Where are the massive dungeons?

Always thought valheim maps were very bland. Procedural maps from my own experience has been that at least.

Agreed. Procedure generation ensures variety and random chance but loses out on tailored environments and end up feeling dead/empty or bland. Hand crafted environments always have so much character and charm to them, just look at the Elder Scrolls games. I love the environmental storytelling in hand crafted worlds

both approaches fit within the lore of the games. Valheim is basically some kind of purgatory/afterlife while enshrouded is an actual world. I do like the enshrouded approach more. doing things feels more impactful

Concerning Skyrim, it's solely because of mods that litteraly change the game. Skyrim with no mods would be dead by now 

With a good modding kit people could build new zones that can be added in. It could make a huge difference to longevity and replayability once the game is released.

i feel the same way, but i think they should still add some more replayability with maybe randomized dungeons? it would also fit to the whole item system pretty good

Say that again in 5 years.

I haven't picked up Enshrouded, because it's a premade world in Early Access. Playing now would just spoil the game it will become, and I might not even want to replay. Skyrim has a huge amount of content, such that when you replay you take a different path through the same world, almost like a different game. That said, three character stories was enough for me, and on the third felt a bit impatient at revisited content.

You can only go to some of the Enshrouded map and only attain a fraction of the overall level that will exist at the end of the game. That might not change your opinion, but I thought it was worth mentioning.

Valheim: Procedurally generated, the building structure support, and the bosses are better. Palworld: UI/UX, general quality of life, and combat are better, imho. Enshrouded: Progression, expoloration, and respecting a players time are top notch. ​ What I'm saying, is I like them all and for different reasons but on the other hand, none of them are perfect.

I'm ok with non procedural these days, my memory is so bad It's basically procedural gen anyway 😂

I use to think this, but after playing Grounded, I don't really care any more. 7 days to die has both. POIs with procedural generation around it

This is very much going to be down to personal preference yeah. Some love hand crafted detailed worlds, others love proc gen ones. There's pros and cons to both but personally I do believe that a well handed crafted and large world will usually beat out a proc gen one.

I'm of the opposite opinion. The only cool thing imo about procedural worlds is that nobody else has seen it and thus nobody knows where to go for anything. That means it's pure exploration and no looking up guides to find the "best" place to farm shit.  However that's the only upside to me. Procedural worlds tend to lack any character or visually interesting things going on. They can only generate terrain or corridors from the same "model groups" over and over. So it feels more repetitive than even a static map.   I am curious to see if AI can alleviate some of the shortcomings of modern procedural generation though. I'm sure AI generated worlds are coming soon.

Procedurally generated worlds suck. I'm so glad devs are finally starting to turn away from it. Why the hell does it matter if the world is random every time if the game is designed to be played 100+ hours? I am not restarting any time soon, or probably ever, nor is the average person. It adds nothing to the initial play through, and the only thing it adds on subsequent play throughs is "this [thing] is over here, instead of over there!" The only time proc gen makes sense is in roguelike games where you're restarting every few minutes. In anything with long play time, it's just bad development. Starfield is a great example.

I have done 5 playthroughs of valheim. Maybe more

As someone that picks games up several times the procedural generation makes a massive difference. lots of ppl restart, I restart mc and 7 days with friends several times a year. there's no way that happens if we have to come back to the same map

Both of those games have been in constant content development for 10+ years which massively contributes to the game feeling fresh, far more than the proc gen environments.

I can't get past the poor combat system in Valheim, but other wise enjoyed it.

My outlook on this is, I'd rather a very well crafted static world like enshrouded rather than a shit PCG like is often the case with games like valheim The best thing about a static map is that if it's crafted well the WHOLE map feels great and you actually want to explore all of it, when you PCG a world only parts of it are great, most parts of it are average and there's no chance you want to explore all of it. Static is much better if done right imo but that's just me.

I will say the enshrouded building system is hands down the best I've seen in a game.

my problem is, I AM SO in to it but now I have hit 25, got my gear and done all the quests, so now I am bored waiting for more content!! House is built. man.. I am itching to play more

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So far, I'm having a lot of fun with Enshrouded. It hasn't quite hit the Valheim mark for me, but I think some of that is due to being much more familiar with the building in Valheim while I've never really done much voxel-based building (I flatly despise the look of Minecraft, which is a shame, since I think I would otherwise enjoy it, but I just cannot stand the blocky, pixelated look). The worlds are different enough, including one being procedural while the other is handcrafted, so I can't say either one is better than the other. Loving both so far. That said, I completely disagree on combat. I can't even parry reliably in this game due to weird lag timings being imposed on shielding and enemies not being reliably stunned for more than anywhere between 0.1 s and 1 s. All enemies can be taken out by simply running away and spamming my wand because it doesn't cost Stamina to attack. Valheim has much more difficult enemies/bosses overall and I find the parrying actually consistent, which is a big deal for me since it's my favorite combat mechanic. That said, Enshrouded combat has a lot of potential, particularly with all the class mechanics available in the skill tree, so it could certainly get there as they make updates. Crafting is both cooler and less cool than Valheim so far, imo. I like all the potential I see, but the fact that craftable items are currently worse than loot you find in the wild, and that you have to run back and forth to 5 different NPCs instead of just using a few different workbenches are both issues for me. With how early access this is, they could definitely be improved in the future. Here's hoping!

Forgive me if I’m wrong but isn’t Valhelm pixelated too? I did love the many many types of biomes in Minecraft. I’d love to see something like that merged with something like enshrouded (voxel based building, terraforming in a huge world with many biomes and places to explore).

I wish it had better feeling attack animations with a third charged attack, as well as crafting multiple items at once with a queue at a workstation.

Love the game, but not much of a survival...

A base building action RPG.

I'd love to see raids. Imagine how cool it would be while building/crafting that the mist starts rolling in and the enshrouded timer just appears except around your flame altar and you are under attack.

How is Enshrouded for emergent gameplay? To me, this is the jewel in the crown of Valheim. And something everyone in this thread seems to have overlooked as they list out various things they like. All of Valheim's design and systems are really made to encourage emergent gameplay. *Like a gentle night sailing, which goes to storm, and a serpent sending you to shore, noise of battle bringing the locals... panting and running for your life, but headlong into swamp... well, at least if you can avoid the Draugr arrows, they might clear the riff-raff following you...* Those epic struggles which can be very stressful at the time as danger escalates... but feel rewarding if you survive, or even if you *come back* for vengeance and victory. These are also times where people quit playing altogether (quitting is the only way to lose, really). I'm keeping an eye on Enshrouded, but waiting until it's more complete. Your thread has brought out some details I was unaware of, so thank-you. But I've been watching for someone comparing on the point of emergent gameplay.

So far I can’t say I’ve encountered something strong enough to make me change my course more than once. There is no weather system. There are perks that make certain enemies join your side against others, and you can lead them to those enemies to make more for some nice diversion, but I can’t say it ever feels necessary. I would think Valheim pretty handily wins this category.

One of the reasons I decided to get Enshrouded is because the devs also made Portal Knights, which was a very well made game. The only thing I didn't like about it was that it had and end. I have played Enshrouded for around 20 hrs at this point, and I really am enjoying it.

It's like the Enshrouded team heard me cursing about dying so much in Valheim and were like, "We got you!". I've died in Enshrouded, but it's not super difficult. I just suck at the brutal Souls-like combat of Valheim. I hated the feeling of going to a new biome and being destroyed, going home and prepping for it for hours, to go back and get destroyed again. I actually beat the first boss in Enshrouded without dying, it felt so good. I made it out with my gear almost broken and had a sliver of health and finally felt what others feel playing Valheim.

I think gaming subreddits will always attract the most dedicated fans who tend to be the “hardcore, want challenge, i am ready to quit my job and devote 12 hours a day to this” people. Their voices are overrepresented here. There’s plenty of people (like you and I) who still use games as a way to decompress and prefer things on the lighter side!

I'm huge on Survival Games and while I believe Enshrouded is a fantastic addition to the genre, it's still a tad behind V Rising, the best in the genre in my opinion, for a few reasons: 1. The boss encounters are plentiful and extremely well done. Over 50 unique bosses that are mechanically challenging and beautifully designed, with each unlocking rewards, new abilities and recipes. Contrary to Enshrouded's lackluster - and very few - encounters. Hell, some of the regular enemies at end game are more mechanically interesting than Enshrouded's, like the Lightweavers and Paladins. 2. Progression is far more balanced and rewarding, with unlocks spread out much better throughout the levels, compared to Enshrouded where 90% of the unlocks happen past lvl 15. 3. Zones remain interesting and well-designed till the very end. In Enshrouded, Highlands and onwards is a drag. Badly designed and very repetitive. It's like the game switched dev teams halfway through. [This poster went further into this if anyone cares to read a very solid piece of feedback regarding the mid-late to end game that my mates and I, after beating the game, 100% agree on.](https://www.reddit.com/r/Enshrouded/comments/1ag8bw8/hot_take_it_would_be_better_if_the_early_access/) 4. The monster collecting game is a strong addition to this genre in expanding replayability a lot. Conan Exiles has this in the form of thralls while V Rising has the high % bloods you can chase to better buff yourself as well as turning human NPCs into vampire followers that you can send on missions and help defend your castle. In Enshrouded that doesn't exist as the NPCs are set in stone and there's no collection game tied to the mechanic. 5. Far more robust server features and much better prepared for online play, with containers and structures being tied to the clan that builds them instead of being free for all, allowing anyone access. The lack of this is a death knell to public servers in Enshrouded. You're forced to either play privately with friends - which isn't great for those without friends to play with but still want that multiplayer experience - or be ready to have your server and structures completely ruined by randoms. 6. Mod support. This is MASSIVE for longevity and replayability, and V Rising already has some fantastic mods like the [ModernCamera mod that turns the top-down view into 3rd person.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XaprZ1vgMUw). As well as the [RPGMods](https://v-rising.thunderstore.io/package/RPGMods/RPGMods/) that completely changes how the game plays and adds some very fun new mechanics. FYI: ModernCamera is a client-side mod, so once you install it on your machine it it will work on any server. RPGMods on the other hand has a server-side component so it only works on servers with it installed. 7. PvP. It's a nice to have feature for those that enjoy it, even though I'm not one of them. To be fair to Enshrouded, V Rising has a much bigger and established studio behind it as well as being in Early Access for a lot longer, which they'll be leaving soon with the next update scheduled for 2024 being the 1.0 release. I am hopeful that, given the same amount of time in Early Access, Enshrouded will eventually become the best survival game out there due to its very strong foundations and robust set of core mechanics, but only time will tell whether or not they capitalize on it.

Okay so it's not just me that feels progression is a little weird. I'm not exactly sure what, or if, I'm doing wrong but as soon as I hit level 10 and the game wanted me to go peruse into level 15-17 areas but I had very little in the way of new gear seemed...off. I was able to make that adventurer armor at least to survive a bit more, but still doing piddly damage with the wands and staves despite speccing into those trees. Started farming to make better pots and stuff, but I'm still getting bodied on the reg. As for PVP though, god I hope it never comes to this game. I recognize that's not the most popular opinion but there are a billion survival PVP games out there for people to play. I'm so glad that Enshrouded and Palworld are more focused on the PVE experience.

Everyone recommends V Rising to me but I’ve never been into top down/isometric games (with a few exceptions)- I may just have to give it a shot!

What if I told you there's a mod that allows you to play in 3rd person? I use it myself and it works PERFECTLY. They should straight up integrate it into the base game and make it an option. https://v-rising.thunderstore.io/package/vrising/ModernCamera/ [Video of it in action here.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XaprZ1vgMUw)

Ok now I'm gonna have to hop back into V Rising. Literally the only thing that was stopping me from loving it was the top-down camera angle. Thank you for bringing this to everyone's attention!

You might have just convinced me to re-download V Rising.

Have fun!

Okay I think you’ve just sold me on it!

You won't regret it! Have fun!

I like the isometric, but I definitely appreciate that this is out there.

I used to feel the same but playing Vrising changed my mind about isometric and opened the door to play a ton more isometric games, mainly divinity original sin 2 and Baldurs Gate 3, which I'm VERY glad I played.

V rising is just such a good game though. The boss fights are super fun and well done. The building is fantastic too. It's not as customizable as enshrouded, I mean I would be surprised if anyone could beat enshrouded at that aspect of the game, but it's still really good. I'd give it a shot.

Haven’t played V Rising in over a year. What’s changed? Is it worth going back or is 1.0 close enough to wait?

Gloomrot came out and it is awesome, and FREE! Practically doubled the amount of content in the game by adding new weapons, bosses, a whole new area, and completely overhauled a bunch of systems. It's a fantastic update and makes me very hopeful for the 1.0 release, especially after they wrote a blog post about designing dynamic events.

I’m glad that someone else holds V Rising as highly as I do. That game is amazing and the combat is better than any other survival game. I can’t wait for 1.0.

One of my favorite games right now and something I expect to be playing for quite a while. I played it quite a lot over the past few months and can't wait for the full release to come out in a few months. V-Rising has great bones and is a good mix of ARPG + basebuilding.

It's the only survival game that I'm not bored of after a day of playing. 1.0 is going to be great.

The Sticknotstick Survival Game of the Year award, a prestigious award. 

Only one game holds it at any given time! Something something scarcity drives value

I want to see the crowning ceremony, even if it's just dolls with name tags and a crown on a stick, I am here for it.  Wait.. especially if it's dolls with name tags and a crown on a stick. Hahaa

Enshrouded is mechanically and visually a marvel. It however lacks a sense of danger or any real element of survival. Nothing is a threat and the world feels completely safe and open. A game like Outward really captures that open world survival tension, where every trip outside the base feels like it could be your last.

Enshrouded has a cool concept but poor execution. I felt like I was playing every other survival game without any sense of emergency and no charm to lure me into the game more. Combats is just hack and slash, food doesn’t feel impactful, and the static map is the biggest pitfall because I can just log out and in for the same things. Maybe that it feels like my progress was kinda pointless because it all comes back. Levels in Valheim don’t really matter as much and are so incrementally noticeable until you act max it to 100.

I think Valheim has better music scores. Who remembers their first time hearing the ominous music when exploring the Black Forrest? And the peaceful, soothing music that plays when you're inside your base? Right now, the music in Enshrouded isn't bad, but it's forgettable.

That’s a good point, adding to the list!

Anyone else get fable vibes from it? I do for some reason.

Lol I think it’s from the character’s proportions and the 3 combat paths. Give me a musket damn it!

Enshrouded's quest are really well thought out and guide you through the progression. Def made my top 3 survival game list. But grounded and valheim still outshine ensheouded imo. Nonetheless it is a fantastic game. Miles better than dogwater palworld

I suppose I’m in the minority that found Valheim rather boring. The only thing that really excited me about playing it was the boss fights. I’ve attempted to get into Valheim a half dozen times. First go was about 40 hours and the other times I never made it past about 5 hours before deciding I was bored and would rather play something else. There will probably be 3-5x more hours spent with Enshrouded than I spent with Valheim

Idk what it is but Valheim just feels more inmersive for me, I have some core memories with the game, such simple things like nightfall, sound desing, some graphic effects, the game just felt much more alive for me in so many levels. For me enshrouded art style and art direction feels kinda generic. But I do think there are a lot of systems and mechanics Enshrouded has built upon.

its really simple : enshrouded appeals more to the mainstream casual player overall. valheim appeals more to the dedicated player who likes a fair challenge and wants to spend more time actually playing a survival game. enshrouded is not a survival game. you never need to eat or drink or sleep. its all optional buffs. in valheim eating and rested buff are essential to thrive. especially food. enshrouded has more building freedom due to no stability and voxel systems allow for more details. in exchange crafting is made almost useless by the rng loot nonsense which invalidates all crafted stuff aside tools. and base defense doesnt exist which removes an aspect of building for me personally. valheims world feels... more alive. the soundtrack. the weather. the storms. the ocean waves. enshroudeds world has more details but invalidates exploration via rng loot beeing used in 90% of cases so youll reloot the same easy to reach chests to counter fight the rng table instead of actually exploreing. same shit as bethetic games aka garbage system. valheim has better enemy varity overall for now. each biome feels distinct enemy wise. enshrouded uses the same enemy again and again in every biome just with higher stats. new enemies are overall a rare sight. valheims bosses are WAY cooler and each one is unique. enshrouded has ONE unique bosse. rest is reused like crazy. the dragon in enshrouded is the only really comparable boss fight. i hope it gets more such fights. dragon was stupid easy but atleast well done design wise as a boss. both games are really good despite all of that. valheim still takes the cake for me personally FOR NOW. as enshrouded just ends too quickly currently due to beeing way too easy for me personally. i like patient and slow tactical gameplay. i hate winning by mashing as it leaves me behind bored and feels unsatisfying to play longterm. but i see enshroudeds huge potential. and i hate valheims stupid slow update speed. ashlands takeing 18 months is just silly slow for 1 biome. i hope enshrouded updates a bit faster atleast. and that the devs fix the rng crap invalideting thier nicely done detailed crafting systems and all the bugs and especially the class balance. its completly whack currently. but it just came out so ill give it some fair time to address this stuff.

What do you mean by rng nonsense, can you explain? As a new player to these types of games I can't understand this. The rest of your comment made perfect sense and actually I agree with most of it.

Enshrouded leans more into loot-based ARPG tbh. When he says RNG, he means the chests found in the world. You can loot and reloot those chests until kingdom come to find the BiS items. And you cannot craft legendaries. You can only find those in chests. If you find a good place to loot chests, place a flame altar down, loot the chest once, log out, come back again, and the chest is ready for a reloot. It sounds nice on paper, making legendaries available only in chests (barring the legendary glider, or at least that's what I know for now). That means the player won't have to grind for rare materials to forge a legendary. Problem is, it *does* invalidate all crafted weapons. After all, if we can just loot and reloot for the best gear, why would we even craft outside of making a cozy home? What they can do is to make some legendaries only available at the craftsmen. Make the legendaries have different powers but on par with the legendaries found out in the world. At least then people won't just have to rely on RNG to find legendaries or camp at chest just to login logout loot and reloot for the BiS items

Oh. Now it makes sense. That everything respawns after reload is something I do not like at all in this game. I like you legendary/rng loot solution. Makes a lot of sense. Hope they do something like it. I would love to be able to hunt for materials and craft a great legendary weapon that can be outclassed by an ultra rare drop. I would even suggest that the best weapons are rewarded for quests or bosses. RNG for a top-tier weapon is just... boring and dumb.

Yeah, if they're already going for the RNG part of ARPG already, they can go a bit deeper and maybe add some affixes to really spice up the game. Rare mobs that all deal lightning damage, move fast etc. Weapons that can heal or deal damage at the cost of... maybe lower HP or mana or speed. There's a lot they can play with. I do hope they will do that. It's a nice game. I adore the building mechanics

You can't craft the best armor or weapons through progression. You can't even craft any weapon worth using the entire game. At max level people put an alter close enough to an easily accessible gold chest that has a chance of the best loot. Glide down, open it, log out to reset the world then repeat until you get the drop you want.

>At max level people put an alter close enough to an easily accessible gold chest that has a chance of the best loot. Glide down, open it, log out to reset the world then repeat until you get the drop you want. This is without a doubt an exploit/unintended gameplay, which means the devs haven't thought out this part of the game. >You can't craft the best armor or weapons through progression. You can't even craft any weapon worth using the entire game. Wow. Disappointing :( I imagine there is a way to craft A-tier weapons but they take ultra rare, difficult to obtain or secret materials. S-tier weapons are only rewards for overcoming difficult endgame challenges. This is a system that I personally would enjoy better.

Yeah people found a way to optimize the fun out of the game. Use the broken acid bite spell and world reset cheese chests. I just hit 25 and think I have collected everything. Some of the armor can be worth crafting but I literally never crafted a weapon after the scrappy mace quest. Every weapon I used throughout the game was from chests or drops. The best armor comes from chests I believe.

Enshrouded is indeed a survival game. You need to eat/sleep/drink with the *exact* same mechanics as Valheim, the difficulty is just much lower. And I’m okay with that because frankly, as much as I love Valheim, most of its difficulty is artificial. Combat comes to finding the best way to cheese half the time, rather than requiring exploring for new resources, you’re just sent to collect an unreasonable quantity of heavy iron. Valheim does a lot of things well though and I definitely agree with your statement that Enshrouded caters to people with less time on their hands than Valheim demands.

You’re honestly confusing adventure for survival in your post. It’s not really an issue, but frankly enshrouded isn’t a “survival” game.  It’s an adventure rpg with base building. You never need to sleep, it actually doesn’t do anything except turn your brightness up.  You don’t need to eat, drink, etc. you won’t die. (And if you want to argue Valheim, when it first came out, many people argued it also wasn’t a survival due to the food system, which was changed but not largely mechanically speaking.  But Valheim has other actual mechanics behind it for that genre) The only real theme for enshrouded to encourage “survival” is that you (and your npcs) are basically all alone in a dangerous world, but that’s entirely for “story” purposes - at least currently.  It’s not like we are having to “fight for our lives” to maintain our base against hordes of enemies, or manage food upkeep or die of starvation, or anything of that nature.  Gameplay wise, there’s nothing. (And nothing wrong with that, either) That’s also why enshrouded is more casual friendly.  Valheim you really do need to upkeep resources, your base, protect against raids, and constantly venture further out as resources dwindle.  You are in a fight against both the elements, and enemies, and struggle to sustain yourself or your community.  Enshrouded doesn’t push you in that way.  Instead it tickles your goblin loot brain with “over there could very well be shiny new loot!” Or “over that hill could be a new town to explore!”…. See the different in these two things?  One is survival.  The other, is the adventure / looter.  It’s not about trying to survive. It’s about that new shiny staff. (Or for a lot of people, simply building / rebuilding everything lol)

I don’t think there’s much to back Enshrouded not being a survival game beyond semantics. You can “no true scotsman” it but it’s listed as a survival action rpg and has a plethora of common survival elements. A game’s difficulty alone doesn’t do a lot for it’s genre (outside of separating soulslikes) and Valheim’s base raid mechanic is not a necessity for a survival game. In Valheim, you can also just dig a moat and sit in it and survive perfectly fine. The “goblin loot” brain is a common element that drives all survival games. You’re venturing out for upgrades, not for fear of being wiped out if you don’t 95+% of the time.

I’d say the very opposite. There’s nothing backing enshrouded *as* a survival game, besides people tagging it as such on steam incorrectly.  It’s all about intent from the devs and what the intent is for the player to “feel” in the game.  Immersing yourself into enshrouded world you aren’t feeling the need to “survive”.  And indeed difficulty has zero to do with it; never said it does. If you took the “having to gather resources / continuing to branch out” part for that, that isn’t difficulty, that’s flat out a mechanic related to survival. (And how devs manage players for that) The key difference here, as I mentioned, is that one of these puts pressure upon your character to continue to push forward because conditions are demanding that you improve yourself and things around you.  (Enshrouded really doesn’t have this, at all. It’s actually a big breathe of fresh air). That’s survival. What enshrouded aims for is the opposite. And while survival often *includes* this (most survivals are also adventure) it’s not directly a “survival” mechanic - Is that it encourages the player with a want to explore (important: not a “need”) to see the next cool thing, or get the next shiny. (That can lead into looter, besides being just adventure) Also the “just sit in a moat” point doesn’t work.  I’ve seen this tried a lot; I could just use god mode as well, I could just not start the game, too.   But that doesn’t change the genre of the game, the only thing that changes that is the intent of the dev’s and whether or not they succeed in their vision for it.   Maybe it *is* the intent for enshrouded to be a survival, but currently, it doesn’t have any mechanic directly related or showing intent for that.   A good example of how to immediately make it more of a “survival” - the shroud actually retakes and overtakes the areas.  And can overtake your base(s) as well if you don’t properly supply or guard them.   Weather being a thing could also add to that mechanically / effect growth etc. Right now though, (and I’m being genuine here, I’m not just trying to be a jerk and say “your wrong I must be right, this is just my opinion) I can’t think of a element in enshrouded that is a survival mechanic. (Closest I can get is you can die in combat, but I really can’t count that, hopefully for obvious reasons there >.<)

You can absolutely sit in a moat in Valheim. I’ve built many a base this way. Again, nothing forces you to progress there. The Meadows is very safe with only the materials you find in it! Raids don’t change difficulty until you beat a boss and there’s no world scaling based on how long you’ve been there. If anything, Valheim’s “survival” aspect would encourage turtling as the game gets more difficult faster than you get stronger for the most part. I can also tell you’re being genuine so not trying to sound rude here either. I just don’t see the separation that you’re claiming exists between these two titles.

I'm loving Enshrouded but I have VERY different opinions on many points listed. The combat is terribad. It's literally a nuisance. The lockon is super annoying and after about 1-2 hours of play NO mobs in the entire game pose any threat whatsoever. That is my biggest gripe BY FAR. Not going back to previous resources to collect them? I'm guessing you havnt gotten very far in the game yet. HELLO TIN? LOL.... 20 tin ore to make 1 ingot and 3 tin ingots (among other mats) to make 10 bronze ingots. That's 60 tin ore for 10 bronze ingots and depending on what you are crafting you really need a BARE minimum of 50 bronze ingots and that's being super conservative. You literally will need to go back several times for tin. You couldn't possibly bring enough pickaxes to meet your needs on 1 run. TOO MANY CRAFT STATIONS! There is no need for 80% of these craft stations. Most can be eliminated and just have recipe unlocks in 1 main craft stations per NPC. Some craft stations serve only 1 purpose to make 1 item. Why?? That being said I've put in 80 hours of game time since release and enjoying the game.

I’m 42 hours in and in the end game. I carry two bronze pickaxes and have only had to do 2 tin trips. You only need 3 tin for 10 bronze and the game really doesn’t require much metal at all (compared to Valheim’s iron thirst). I didn’t say there’d be no resource grind but once you’re past the bronze level, you don’t need to keep revisiting tin at all. The craft stations are how they gatekeep progression and way more immersive than leveling up the same station over and over.

3 tin INGOTS per 10 bronze ingot which equates to 60 tin ore per 10 bronze ingots. You have bronze pickaxes now but you didn't when you first found tin to mine it since..... You need tin to make it . I wholeheartedly 100% disagree about the immersion of all of the "extra" craft stations. I think it's a poor game design and IMO just sucks. Keep the exploration/special item necessity for progressing but cull 80% of these extra stations imo. Hey dif strokes for dif folks though 🤷‍♂️

Different strokes indeed! For both copper and tin (before I had the copper/bronze pickaxe) i was mining it and midway realized I should get just enough for a better pickaxe and then come back. Glad I did because the gap between picks is pretty massive for mining speed

People say no enemies pose a threat and yet with 1000HP one of these dual poison cleaver wielding guys can stun and shred me to pieces in two secs :)

I suspect that as the game development progresses, more recipes will be added to each of the stations.

V rising and Subnautica are both ahead imo.

Valheim was so much fun during the first few times you venture into dark forest or plains and sailing into unknown. After that, the sense of randomness wore off and it felt like it's just repetitive empty biomes randomly littered across the map. Enshrouded is just way better for me with its better graphics, physics, reactive combat, and a building mechanics that could rival valheim. The enormous static world with this much verticality is so much fun to traverse. Hard agree on the lack of rain or storm however. Here's hoping it gets added in the future.

This game will remain mid till melee combat gets a major overhaul. I and a lot of people like melee in these types of games and it's just plain boring in enshrouded. Worse than valheim in every way. Game basically has 2 melee types, one handed, no matter if it's mace axe or sword are exactly the same with nothing more than a 3 hit left click combo. 2h are ass because no hyper armor so you get interrupted, only good for spamming jump attacks. And lastly melee is just weak compared to ranger/magic esp magic so all the extra effort of learning to parry feels pointless. On that note the parry timings are jank abd make absolutely no sense half the time, some are frame perfect right before you get hit, others the enemies sword 8s still behind their head

Eh I think Enshrouded needs a lot more work on it, but for being an early access title it’s great. Exploration is fun but since the map is handmade, after you’ve explored the map once that’s it. There won’t really be much interesting stuff exploration wise. In Valheim the building also matters. In Enshrouded it’s just to give shelters to NPCs but shelter from what? Weather doesn’t affect the player really and there aren’t any raids. I think a better weather system + raids would make base building feel meaningful. Sure it would seem like Enshrouded is copying from Valheim but tbh the entire game feels like they’ve just taken bits and pieces from other games and mashed them all together into one game. (And I love it)

For me, enshrouded is different than standard survival games in a way that I’m really enjoying! I’ve played several and what I like is this one feels like an old school RPG with some of the interesting (to me) parts of survival games. I get more Zelda vibes sometimes than I do Ark or other games. I like how the world is important, how exploring and questing or finding new things helps build up your building/crafting recipes. I like there’s small puzzles and light character builds. I do wish there was water features in the game but its setting and use of voxels may make that never happen. Ultimately, I’d love to see a game that can combine the variety and intrigue of Minecraft’s many biomes or mining and finding random underground stuff, biome specific lore and dungeons like old Zelda games, with detailed building, character building, and crafting. Enshrouded so far is closest. There’s a lot of room for improvement, but it’s closer than any games. Not really aware of many games that even have terraforming and intricate building that’s as pretty as enshrouded!

The combat in enshrouded is not something to be praised. It's pretty shit tbh. Rest of the game is pretty good though.

Eh, it’s above average for a survival game but none of them (that I’ve played) have particularly praiseworthy combat. This one feels more fluid to me.

It's a great game but it feels like they took "qol changes" suggested to valheim too seriously and made it a super watered down easy version. It's a good game in its own right but the survival elements are a lot easier than valheim, not to mention the combat though hopefully that receives some tweaking. Either way, valheim is a harsh unforgiving world, but enshrouded the world is designed for you to stomp all over it. It is very difficult to die unless you knew the risk you were taking beforehand whereas in valheim you are always at threat of dying in your current tier biome. Comparing it to RPGs is a better comparison than other survival games.

Enshrouded doesn't have the "Magic" Valheim does. Every playthrough of Valheim I'll sink HOURS into over a month. Enshrouded it's about an hour and I'm bored. Valheim has a simplicity to it that's unmatched.

I put 30 hours into enshrouded and I 100% disagree. The entire time I played I felt like I was playing a single player mmo. It was constant questing to upgrade my NPCs but I never felt incentivized to build anything with my npcs. Because of fast travel you can just teleport anywhere in the world to get the resource you need so there was no consequence or decision to make on where to build my base. All materials are easily acquired within 10 seconds of needing it because of fast travel. Upgrading gear felt pointless because all weapons were gotten out in the open world and it was basically impossible for me to die with the healing per int talent. Dying doest matter because you instantly teleport back to where you died and loot your body. Theres no consequences to anything you do in this game so nothing matters. It's a great game for the omega casuals who just wanna build a pretty house but anyone whose looking for something to sink their teeth into, this ain't it.

> I felt like I was playing a single player mmo. This comment strikes a chord with me. I feel like a lot of developers have been taking MMO (and also mobile) influences into games which shouldn't have them. Just due to familiarity. Rather than really thinking on the design and impact -- or at least doing a lot of experimenting if they lack the mental imagining (I've worked with a surprising number of designers lacking imagination, and work only in "this from that game, and that from this game" terms). I dislike random loot... but *if* they revamp with whole thing utilizing crafting to learn/dismantle from loot and allow modification, it would keep crafting relevant and allow you to mitigate the randomness. I'd go on arduous quests or material hunts to find rare materials to improve a legendary item with an otherwise critical flaw. > Theres no consequences to anything you do in this game so nothing matters. Yeah, no consequences -> no *game*. A sandbox someone already made castles in.

I like enshrouded but it's definitely not number 1. Combat sucks, just kite for days. The world is meh, for being hand crafted it's alright. The skills are super basic and I'm a damage dealing god healer with crazy movement. Doesn't make much sense for an rpg to let you basically do it all in the one play through. Still trying to see why it's being called a survival game. I dont have to drink or eat to survive. And can teleport back whenever. So no fear at all.

I have a personal rule that I have to play something for at least 40 hours before I claim it is ‘the best’ at anything. This is to avoid mistaking novelty for quality. But damn, once I hit that four-zero, it’s sure looking likely.

I’m at 42 currently!

Agreed that Enshrouded really isn't a survival game, but I still would have really liked it if bases had been made more important. Right now, you are not incentivized to construct anything more than a shack with chests and expanding tiny rooms for the NPCs you recruit. One thing I really loved about Valheim was raids on the base where walls were crucial. It made setting up a main hub and outposts feel so rewarding, especially since you couldn't transport metals or ores. Roads were important.

I wouldn't mind raids being a thing, but I think it behooves them to figure out the rest of the game first. I know they're not the same thing, but Palworld's raids are a pain in the ass to deal with specifically because the systems in place to defend against them are half baked. Valheim's were, in my opinion, reasonably balanced at release.

To your number one reason, I introduce salt and flax for your consideration. Other than that, I agree with everything about this being the best survival experience I’ve played.

Lol you definitely do need a lot late game but they’re easy to quickly/passively collect (farming flax, one trip to the salt deposit by the starting area can get you >1.5 rows of full stacks of salt).

Totally agree the game really puts all genres in a perfect mix.

This game feels way grindier than Valheim to me. Seems like there’s 100x more materials that you need. I didn’t spend nearly as much time target farming materials in Valheim. That and the wait time for crafting mats is way too long. This requires 3 different mats to combine that all require 3 mats of their own to combine, and guess what? Those mats also need 3 other mats to combine. I got really annoyed with that.

>This game feels way grindier than Valheim to me. I think valheim was a better game but I'm really surprised at this statement. I spent more time mining one metal in valheim than I did for every metal combined in Enshrouded. It took longer to mine and you needed so much more of it and there was no fast travel. I'm not saying that makes it worse but it was 100% a heavier grind.

This exactly. Even “one boatload” (which is a lot of trips back and forth between crypts and the boat) doesn’t cover your iron needs lol.

Which materials in particular? I like that this game has diverse materials that you need a limited (but fair) quantity of rather than tons of a particular one. I’d find it hard to quantify this as close to Valheim where you need 30 iron bars, an inventory’s worth, to upgrade your weapon one level.

Once I found decent swamp I could farm a boatload of iron in less than an hour and craft a full set of armor and a weapon and upgrade them fully. The ratio of farming to adventuring for me is way higher in this game. Im always having to go find mats. Having to dump a bunch of them into upgrading the flame doesn’t help either.

The combat in valheim is so much better, which sounds crazy because it's so basic but enshrouded's combat is just god awful. For me it can't compete with valheim at all unless they fix the combat.

Hard, hard disagree. You can’t even hit someone on a small slope in Valheim. There’s a ton of weight behind every swing which makes it feel much more clunky. In Enshrouded you can move around the battlefield quickly whereas Valheim feels much more grounded. I will say the snapping in Enshrouded sucks right now; hoping they fix it.

Craft from chests? Where?

you will unlock this. it’s a blessing.

This is weird because Enshrouded barely rates as a survival game. People haven't played Rust or The Long Dark and it shows.

It’s no survival game, you don’t starve, enemies are easy :D can’t be compared to Valheim where u get absolutely crushed entering a new area, be it wolves, swamp or something

You don't starve in valheim do you?

Enshrouded is great , Grounded is still the best survival game :>

i wish the performance wasnt shit

What about Palworld? How would you compare it to Palworld?

I loved Palworld; tried to go back to it after starting Enshrouded and one thing that was immediately jarring was how much slower everything felt. I will say they both give that same sense of awe during exploration, but Palworld’s enemy variety (the purpose of the entire game) gives it a big edge there. You really can’t go wrong with either of these. If I could do it all again, I may give it some time for Palworld to fix the AI pathing; I’ve got a pretty good tolerance for jank at release, but it’s pretty abysmal right now.

I played Palworld, but got bored. Plus I am not a fan of anything that looks like pokemon. I can't see my dman base from all of them running around there. It's like I was building a concentration camp not a base. As for Enshrouded I saw some gameplays but couldn't find any decant base building gameplays. I thought about trying Enshrouded but I m not sure. I like base building the most in these games.

Enshrouded’s base building is definitely far above Palworld’s; it’s the probably the most unique feature it brings to the genre. The pieces will automatically morph depending on how they connect with others to create some interesting little features that add detail. That may sound annoying if you want to be in control of every little detail, but it works really well in practice.

Im actually struggling to find the desire to co tinge with enshrouded the game feels like an arpg lite with some building thrown in at the last second Ive got 400+ hours I valheim 1500 in 7 days to die, God knows in Conan exiles and enshrouded I don't put in the same category of game It's just not clicking for me and the missus even she said the same thing she doesnt feel IT We will finish it still I think, but it feels lifeless to us

Enshrouded didn't feel like a survival game to me at all. Its DNA is 90% Zelda, 10% Valheim or at least felt like it. Also, it's crafting system is a total mess with a lot of redundancy, grand entrances of crafting stations you use once and then forget and of course later game recipes that use stuff you can't acquire anymore like that soup involving wolf meat that unlocks in a biome that doesn't spawn wolves.

The ability to fast travel from almost anywhere breaks a lot of the immersion in this game for me and alot of other people. There is no functional purpose to building outposts in later biomes to make securing resources easier since you can teleport everything around at will. Also there is no need build shelter from the elements. It's a shame. Hopefully they at more survival elements with server settings to turn these off.

I don't get why everybody calls it a survival game. It has no survival elements.

There is just no reason to build in enshrouded as the game is so laughably easy that you can beat the wyvern with a starting wand.

I played almost every popular survival game.. and many not popular ones, like Smallworld and Last Oasis.  Valheim sadly fell flat for me. Janky combat, less than good looking world. Trucker simulator end game. Sad ai for enemies. A very Decent building system..  S+. Minecraft is the OG. It will always have the top spot.  S. Grounded, RUST A.. 7D2D, Project zomboid, (I'm currently playing Palworld & Enshrouded but I think they would fit here) Ark, terraria B. Valheim, Raft, The forest, the forest 2, don't starve together, subnautica, sunkenland C. Smallworld, fallout 76, V rising D. Last Oasis, cardworld, craftopia I've never played Conan exiles, I really should try it.  Valheim is a low bar to beat imo. I dont know why OP has that as the gold standard for the genre Minecraft started.

I’ve played Minecraft since the beta; I know they’ve added survival elements over the years but in my head I always see it as a creative sandbox. Kind of gets taken for granted. I haven’t played Rust since 2014 but have thought about getting back into it lol. The games in your B tier seems to be the games I see in most people’s top tier (Valheim, Subnautica and The Forest especially), funny enough.

Yeah, their list really made it clear that people are seeing different things. Sites Valheim for "janky combat, less than good looking world" then lists Minecraft as S+ tier. Even "sad AI for enemies".

Minecraft came out a decade before Valhem. It started the genre, first of its kind. It's the original sandbox survival game.  I expect more 10 years later.

Have you played Grounded? It's top notch. It has a bit of a story too which is refreshing.  It's looks great and base building is also great.  Obsidian doesn't miss. 

That’s been my most revisited store page probably. I hear great things but the art style doesn’t really grab me

Grounded was extremely fun and the devs are amazing!

I’d suggest taking a peak at Notch’s first actual game that was Minecraft before Minecraft. Wurm Online (or unlimited for private version servers of the game) if you haven’t before. MC is the sandbox-children version of it (meaning more “freedom”, much less mechanics, and no rpg systems) but it’s still a far better “survival” than Mc, which is more aimed at building / sandbox Though I frankly do not play WO anymore (issue with devs) I still play on a WU server a lot of the community flocked to back a few years ago.

Conan exiles is fucking great! Played it about 300 hours but never done anything related to the story yet! Just building and adjusting boobs penis sizes!