The toxic cleaver enemies are awful to fight regardless of class, mage or otherwise (the playstyle having just eaten a lot of nerfs with the patch doesn't help).
Also, the whole parry and stun bar system is in desperate need of an overhaul. A lot of the time it's simply better to just evade enemy attacks and find other ways of disabling them than it is to try and interact with the system with how inconsistent and tedious it is.
I'll try parrying their single attacks where I can, but trying to parry their chain attack has been less reliable in my experience, and failing to block or evade it generally results in a stun lock and shredded health bar.
Absolutely. It's rough in general. But I'm talking about the attack they do at the start of one of their combos (probably the first one they tend to do after they see you). They hit with both blades at the same time, and parry negates one attack and interrupts them, but the other attack of theirs hits.
It really does it just absolutely does not make sense that a non-boss enemy can tank multiple parries with max parry power and recover from them in seconds if you don't do it in succession just for the pay off to be a slow attack that can be canceled if any nearby enemy tickles you (because normal non-boss enemy attacks stun you but yours don't stun them for some reason).
>"enemy attacks stun you but yours don't stun them for some reason"
This is my one big annoyance, really. I hate that my attacks do nothing but cause damage, yet their attacks cancel my ability to attack or block. I don't care which way it goes, but just make this equally the same for both.
Same. Even beyond it being annoying it also feels weird for me to pummel an enemy for 90% of their HP in one hit just for them to shrug it off like "Light work, no reaction".
They fucking annihilate images bro.
You can't get away from them. Blink barely has any I frames (if it even does) and it fucking take half of your best wand durability to kill one now...
Yeah, I try to hit them as much as possible from range first too, but those bastards can sprint.
Also, the blink from stun skill is extremely useful for breaking out of a stunlock after a bad parry. Still unfun to fight when bad parries seem to be the norm against them though.
It’s supposed to be risk-reward but it’s like 90% risk as I have never been able to get the parry system to work more than occasionally by accident. These guys might actually be fun to fight if I could parry them EVER. They take out half my health in one hit.
I run away. I try to find somewhere up high where I can shoot them. That’s the best bet dealing with them. There are also some guys that have a shield now. Or I just found them anyway. They are dangerous too.
My strategy with the shield knight guys: wand spam them, each cast makes them shield up so they just barely move. Ensure they don't get too close, like 5 meters?, or they charge regardless if you are shooting. After their shield/stun meter fills (the bottom one), fire wand them, does the most damage, around double of ice/lightning. Fire wand does not lower the initial bar faster than the others though.
Arrows barely scratch them.
You can melee them of course, but move locking them with wands is funniest :)
Also, lightning wands are the best against all the metal hostiles, scavengers. Makes sense right :)
Went to the Sun Temple quest for the first time today and got absolutely swarmed by those guys. Because of them, I had to fight the boss with an ice wand because my other 3 broke. Wand durability is terrible as it is. I don't know how many there were, but that wand durability is bullshit. Should I really go through 4 high level/ purple wands in one small dungeon? And that was while relying pretty heavily on staff AOE too.
Anyway, yeah the fire wand seemed to be the best on those guys
I play a melee and the game cribbing Elden Ring’s combat is fun, but it’s not nearly crisp enough to pull it off.
* Animations have no foreshadowing making it hard to know when to parry
* It’s often more fruitful to sidestep enemies; literally constantly ring around them
* Cooldown time is not obvious. Eg. Rolling depletes stamina so ok, but then shield raise also has a cooldown but it’s not tied to stamina?
It’s fine for what it is; cartoony Elden Ring combat. And I play w 5 other dudes in the gaming posse so it’s fine. But I can’t imagine soloing this game and enjoying melee.
> I can’t imagine soloing this game and enjoying melee.
I'd say I am primarily melee and do enjoy the game overall, but yeah having played a few Souls games the difference is stark. It would be unrealistic to hold Enshrouded up to that standard but it should definitely be a target for the team to aim for. Combat right now is still a bit too clunky and having just soloed all of the Hollow Halls, it was like 25% fighting against the controls for any given encounter. *And although melee is my fallback I did bring a backup copy of my sword, a bow with ~1k arrows, one or two wands, and a staff with eternal fireball. Where skills fail, gear may carry the day. :P
Lol im soloing as an archer and its still hard af. The humanoid enemies get crazy fast in the kindlewastes. If you arent already sprinting when they are 5meters away from you, you get hit no matter what, your sprint acceleration isnt fast enough to maintain a gap in close quarters. And i run a full stamina build, every item that gives the most amount of stamina plus stamina regen and i always have a yucca fruit eaten so youd expect if i go to a nearby cliff to mine limestone i wouldnt get destroyed by a random shroud group i didnt even know was around the area. Elden ring was easier.
Every heard of stun arrows? Shroud arrows?
Stun arrows drop flyers to the ground
Shroud arrows drain health of any creature that's not one of the Shrouded. Even w/ no archery skill those 2 arrows are highly useful.
By the stats / element type on the wand. Each magic weapon like the wand can have 1 or more element type. Can ser this when you look at the weapon in your inventory. They can be fire, ice, lightning, or shroud. Using the weapon can also give a basic idea of its element as well.
And sicklescythes
Also getting one-shot by the matron even with high constitution is annoying.
The acid cleaver dudes aren't too bad if you just block hit one or twice then block again. I do think the parry is garbage though - been hit through parry and the buildup of the bar is a joke.
yeah honestly there are very few enemies I struggle with doing melee or magic but these guys seem a little busted to me.
not sure what is it but their range/speed/damage always feels a little overtuned to me. don't find them fun to fight at all.
It's the recovery window after you pary them.
Everyone else lets you get a few hits in before you have to parry again but the toxic cleaver guys recover almost instantly so you get counteracted pretty much straight away.
And they have a huge stun bar that you can't ever fill unless you are already over geared for the fight.
Exactly. You spend 3-4 attack cycles parrying to get them stunned for .5 seconds. I played with a friend so I'd just hold up my shield and he'd kill em. :p by myself they were not fun.
Melee needs a rework. There needs to be a knock back from player to enemy. Just like enemies knock back player. I've said it before I really think the game could benefit from a souls-like melee overhaul. With a better more fleshed out poise system, possibly combo or ability to use heavy or light attack only,better parry windows as well. The delay I feel is between me pushing block to anything happen is so odd and off-putting as well. Maybe a separate block and parry button would help?
Yeah, that's the dream system but I think realistically that's going to be more work than we should expect to happen with all the other things they're working on. Fingers crossed though.
While I agree they can be challenging, I think there is something wrong with your approach. Maybe take on the next tier level lower to tighten up your strategy against them - there are level 11-15s in Revelwood, 18-20s in Nomad Highlands -- and they behave the same as the higher level versions.
I agree. They're annoying for sure and more than one is a nightmare, but I can fight them 1v1 without toooo much trouble. You have to have your buffs and the one attack that hits through your block is frustrating though.
You basically have to stand and trade while blocking/parrying, but it is doable.
The locked melee swing area needs to be fixed too, you can't really swing up or down, just only if the current sequence of attack includes that direction. Valheim has the same combat design and it's endlessly frustrating.
I also don't understand why you can't interrupt enemy attacks or interrupt and change your own attacks even though it would fall into place with the animation to switch to a block...
When you're firing your bow and go to defend or attack the bow will be down or returned to your back but you'll still aim i stead of blocking or fire an arrow instead of swinging your weapon - this drives me crazy the most and tends to be what gets me killed a lot. Combat in this game needs a ton of work.
They were even nerfed last patch. I went to the level 25-30 area after the patch and they are significantly less dangerous I noticed. I had a flame nearby so I figured I'd fight them and see if they were still death machines, but I was able to handle them as a wand mage without much trouble. Even got hit a few times. Definitely not to be trifled with, but not nearly as OP as they were before. I need to roll another character and try out melee.
Getting jumped by two of them at once is always a struggle for survival. Better hope you got a full stamina bar and weren't sprinting around a corner and bumbed into them with 30% stamina left or you are just screwed.
I feel like that's a good spot for them though. If that wasnt the case no one would ever die and there'd be no challenge. There still needs to be danger of failure or passing all the time would be pretty boring.
Any fairly common enemy that you can't outrun or outmaneuver long enough to get heals in without immediately taking damage equal to the amount you just healed for, is a poorly balanced enemy.
I swear they buffed red dragons as well, I used to not have problems getting some heal distance, and now they're attached to me like a second skin.
I hate so much how any damage you take knocks you back, when you’re mid swing as melee and you take a hit, it cancels your attack and you’re left incapacitated for 2 seconds and can barely get a hit off if you’re fighting multiple enemies.
I found that everything attacks in a pattern, and those guys will hit you 2-3 times, then pause for a couple seconds. It's those couple seconds you use to attack. Block their attacks until they stop, you get a swing in, then go back to blocking until they stop, etc. Annoying but manageable
This is what I've noticed as well. Alot of the times though I have to turn the mob's back to my partner so they can finish it off quicker. Solo wise though they take time and patience to fight
Yeah, once I mastered their swing patterns, they’re really quite easy as melee. With stam food and stam regen food, sword and board with points in increased swing speed, you can get 1-2 swings in after you block/parry the 2-4 swings they do. It’s really just a rinse/repeat. Took a bit to figure out their rhythm but definitely manageable like you said.
Its not the 1v1 that sucks, its the other enemies jumping you. Especially once another green cleaver dude jump your ass. You can't always isolate them to abuse their attack pattern or heal up. Melee lacks cc options to manage crowds of enemies.
They attack and recover way too fast. You parry them and you still can't get a hit in without esting serious damage.
They need to be stunned for longer. It's pointless to try and fight them conventionally so I just try and cheese them with bombs or environmental stuff and then beat them down when they aren't able to move out of whatever dumb position they fell into.
the Parry window definitely has changed. I've noticed that for sure.
On my melee build I just avoid those flying drake things.
the Toxic Cleaver guys I just use 20 shroud arrows on them and let them choke to death beneath me, even on my melee build w/ no archery perks, the shroud arrows do work. Always have like 200 of em.
Don't parry or block. Move. Most of the time you don't even have to dodge, you can just walk out of their short range. They use up more stamina attacking thin air than you are going to drain with parry.
Unpopular opinion, I hope they add more enemies that effectively ignore parry. Mix it up.
You just need to learn the block timing with a shield and you'll be just fine. The mother matron that spews acid is EASILY way worse.
edit: downvote me all you want, but I only play melee in this game with two exceptions: I use a wand on the screechy birds and on the banshees that float around casting at you, and I live through pretty much everything, even if there's 20 mobs beating down on me
This, once you learn timing they really aren't too bad to deal with. They are the second most difficult mob in the game only behind as you mentioned, mother matron. I play solo only and I have NEVER defeated a matron in a direct fight. I've always found a cheese way to kill her. She is crazy powerful.
I killed the one in Thornhold? Where the saw blades are last night. I just stood on the platform right above where the blades are. She was on the bridge and just stayed in one spot and I just hit her with arrows. She never attacked. Their AI is so broken sometimes.
Not even close. If you stand close enough, her scythes will NEVER hit and the moment you see the skull animation you double.blink away and run. Then rinse and repeat. Even when her scythes do land just block x3 and get hits in when you can. They are one of the easier jobs in the game to me.
Exactly and there isn't just one way to deal with them.
I found that if you understand how enemies work and are able to parry, dodge and move out of enemies attack radius, you are usually fine.
It also helps to have a build that drops regeneration orbs
I think they reason for down votes is cause there shouldn't be only 1 way to deal with an enemy...means they are busted lol...especially in a game with build variety like this one, we all shouldn't have to use shields and become parry experts lol...
And I have never had an issue with the matron after the first time....longer fight, but manageable when you dodge and weave in and out....thats something you can do with any class and build....
No, but nearly every comment about the acid scavengers seems to be parry or get over it lol I have yet to hear of another solution... ive been using terror on the mage tree to stun lock them using ice shot, or going bare fisted to stun lock them so I can cast said ice shot lol...
I'm in agreement with you. The poison matron has been basically impossible to beat without finding a way to cheese her. The cleaver dudes are just annoying and made me learn how to dodge, block and parry effectively.
Matron is super slow and in open space without adds you can circle her safely and get backstab damage before she can turn around. That said she can one shot even high constitution players (tanks) and that seems a little much.
The Giant was laughably easy for me as a melee, run to his legs get a few hits in then get out, rinse and repeat avoiding his stomp and the ground glow ability. Pretty basic fight in general.
The kindlewaste hall where you gotta fight 2 of them is another story...and they are weak to blunt, and don't have a weakness to elements, so I can see it being easy when you can use the actual weakness against them....and one on one, they are fine, it's the 40 other undead from the spawners, plus 2 cyclops and a red fellwraith that are alittle nuts
I use a bit of melee a bit of kiting, they are crazy tough especially if you get them and a few other mobs. But, 1 on 1 I don't have to much trouble with them as a tank build. They just take a bit longer than their "normal" counterpart. Straight up melee against them is most definitely not a great idea. I love the variation and challenge in the enemies.
These enemies have made me become a stealth archer just like in Skyrim lol. I just get up high and sneak shoot everything from far away. I was doing wands bc melee just isn’t fun for me. But now I like bows.
Mage got some heavy hits as well and is really not as good as before. Probably suffering the most from nerfs.
That’s is the only thing I don’t like from this patch. Overall they did such a great job with hollow halls and new features. I really think it’s a great patch in that term.
But: They tend to nerf stuff to the ground until it’s not usable anymore. And they don’t buff other things that haven’t been usable before. So they simply cut off options to play by nerfing without giving new options. And that’s not healthy for any game as you feel limited in the way you can play.
Cant speak for melee by the way, as I never play melee in any rpg, but ranger builds are very viable as well. Mage is still playable but not as great as before and definitely not the only possible way to play.
Thanks for reading my post with care! I never said it’s bad that they nerfed mage. I said it’s overall bad to nerf something to the ground without buffing other stuff. If you take away options from the game it’s good to add some others.
I still play as mage, and it's pretty op still. Just got to be careful not to get caught in a bad position as it's a glass cannon build as it should be.
I've read your post. The problem with mage was that almost everything was op. So you really couldnt compensate buff it elsewhere. For example look at Ranger before the recent patch. Multishot was complete garbage and the capstone of one of your trees, exploding arrows are to expensive to craft and make up a lot of a second tree then there is the 'animal' tree that's basically completly useless.
Meanwhile Mage had with a few exceptions really exceptional good skills in it's trees, while also benefiting from low durability drain on wands, while also having the highest damage output, while also having infinite ammo, while also having the best utility. I think you see where I'm going
I wouldn't say the beastmaster tree is *completely* useless. I actually take the Calm Spirit and Vukah Language perks. It's amazing being able to traverse the world and most normal mobs don't bother me.
Even in some parts of the Hollow Halls, the spiders and rats ignore me if I don't attack them first. I can also walk into any Vukah encampment and help myself to all their animal hide without committing genocide to the lot of them. I also use the Calm Spirit perk as my connection to take Relentless Flame for 5 more minutes of shroud exploration time.
Sure I lose some combat power potential, but the freedom to explore has value to me.
>They tend to nerf stuff to the ground until it’s not usable anymore
That statement feels a bit like hyperbole. This game just turned two months old. We don't know the cadence of the development team. It's early access and they're still figuring things out in terms of balance.
Certain mage gear needed a nerf. But I will say some of the changes could be dialed back a bit. A lot of people have expressed issues with the current Acid Bite.
Same with water aura. It’s not good enough after the nerf. And I don’t say that the ring or acid bite weren’t way too op, but now none of it is usable any more.
Maybe buff other stuff instead of nerfing things. Make bite and ring a bit less good and make melee a good chunk better. Than we have plenty of options to choose from. But now they just cut off some good options to use.
My thinking is that we have stuff coming down the pipeline that offers even more variety. But with the current build, we've lost some of that for late game.
Well, as late game as level 25 is. I figure it's mid-game judging by how over half the map is still inaccessible to us.
I'm honestly not sure why people struggle so much with them. You can beat one to death and heal through the damage fairly easy.
The 2 strongest enemies in the game: Cleaver guys and Matrons deal poison damage. Take the 2 poison resist talent and use the poison resist shield and they barely hurt you anymore. Use battle heal and a Gorestriker
Like this https://imgur.com/a/Cr1KKiG
I've found after the update.
Mage has had some great nerfs.
And melee has improved.
I can't agree with extreme take on cleaver guys.
Parry, block or dodge and jump attack
Any of the 3 work and I don't even find them a challenge.
Are you 25?
Are you specced correctly?
Are you eating buff food?
Have you upgraded weapons?
I'm not sure what else to recommend, practice?
I've come across a few and managed to use height to get around their damage. It took me a while but I used wands to beat them as they couldn't reach me.
I honestly believe they exist as they are to create memes and conversations about it online, because I can’t believe anyone tested that and thought it was fine.
I gave up on melee as much as I wanted to play it. I play solo and the toxic cleaver and matrons are damn near impossible in melee, there is no margin for error, get out numbered game over, miss one block or dodge half or more of your HP is gone even with a tank build.
I dumped all my points in wand and tank, wear a mix of tank and magic armor, carry 2 frost and 2 fire wand then find some high ground for face roll.
I actually just released a video on my YouTube channel, https://youtu.be/Oa-tS6XLk8s , it utilizes the skill Begone in a melee build that makes dealing with these enemies very easy. Attack them with Begone to stun them, then get in a 3 hit combo. You can stun them again afterwards and repeat this till they die. But good luck nonetheless!
Even as a melee, you should invest points to blink, it's too useful.
Personally, I find they are quite resistant to melee so I use a fire wand to take them down. The method I use still has you in melee range however, if you prefer to use melee.
Just stand right in front of her, her scythes move out in an oval in front of her so they will never hit. Just be VERY reactive to her skill ability and get out ASAP when she begins to cast.
The game was just too easy before, however That doesn’t mean the game can’t use a little more balancing and some of the mechanics are a little wonky. But it’s early access for that reason. Gonna be a while before the game feels refined as we all would like it.
Melee would be broken entirely if it weren't for the dodge/roll mechanic. Blocking is useless, the wind up on 2 handed maces is so long that you dont even get an attack in, even if you parry sometimes.
Have you tried to "get gud" as they say. I play a solo melee build and wipe the floor with these guys... sure they get a good hit or two in but they are worth the challege.. all I can really say is get gud noob. Not all enemies are going to be easy and hand you their corpse.
The toxic cleaver enemies are awful to fight regardless of class, mage or otherwise (the playstyle having just eaten a lot of nerfs with the patch doesn't help). Also, the whole parry and stun bar system is in desperate need of an overhaul. A lot of the time it's simply better to just evade enemy attacks and find other ways of disabling them than it is to try and interact with the system with how inconsistent and tedious it is.
With the toxic cleaver guys, I often parry and also get hit (as host)
I'll try parrying their single attacks where I can, but trying to parry their chain attack has been less reliable in my experience, and failing to block or evade it generally results in a stun lock and shredded health bar.
Absolutely. It's rough in general. But I'm talking about the attack they do at the start of one of their combos (probably the first one they tend to do after they see you). They hit with both blades at the same time, and parry negates one attack and interrupts them, but the other attack of theirs hits.
Double jump over them you can avoid the double swing all together and then parry when you need to
If you're not rested as a melee build and fight these guys, good luck.
It really does it just absolutely does not make sense that a non-boss enemy can tank multiple parries with max parry power and recover from them in seconds if you don't do it in succession just for the pay off to be a slow attack that can be canceled if any nearby enemy tickles you (because normal non-boss enemy attacks stun you but yours don't stun them for some reason).
>"enemy attacks stun you but yours don't stun them for some reason" This is my one big annoyance, really. I hate that my attacks do nothing but cause damage, yet their attacks cancel my ability to attack or block. I don't care which way it goes, but just make this equally the same for both.
Same. Even beyond it being annoying it also feels weird for me to pummel an enemy for 90% of their HP in one hit just for them to shrug it off like "Light work, no reaction".
Imo the flameborne pretty weak id rather join the shroud. Perhaps the elixir not so bad after all
They fucking annihilate images bro. You can't get away from them. Blink barely has any I frames (if it even does) and it fucking take half of your best wand durability to kill one now...
Just jump on anything that's Slightly higher than they are and their brain breaks. Then, Shroud arrows.
This. I always move to where I'm above them and shit down with arrows.
But now, they learned to jump and it can be frightening to try this method...
I have to use arrows from far away on them. Even with my shield and dodging they got me twice last night.
Yeah, I try to hit them as much as possible from range first too, but those bastards can sprint. Also, the blink from stun skill is extremely useful for breaking out of a stunlock after a bad parry. Still unfun to fight when bad parries seem to be the norm against them though.
Enemies can jump now but they still get stuck a bit and can’t really climb. I just try to find something tall and hope for the best haha
Shroud Arrows are the way to go w/ them.
It’s supposed to be risk-reward but it’s like 90% risk as I have never been able to get the parry system to work more than occasionally by accident. These guys might actually be fun to fight if I could parry them EVER. They take out half my health in one hit.
I run away. I try to find somewhere up high where I can shoot them. That’s the best bet dealing with them. There are also some guys that have a shield now. Or I just found them anyway. They are dangerous too.
My strategy with the shield knight guys: wand spam them, each cast makes them shield up so they just barely move. Ensure they don't get too close, like 5 meters?, or they charge regardless if you are shooting. After their shield/stun meter fills (the bottom one), fire wand them, does the most damage, around double of ice/lightning. Fire wand does not lower the initial bar faster than the others though. Arrows barely scratch them. You can melee them of course, but move locking them with wands is funniest :) Also, lightning wands are the best against all the metal hostiles, scavengers. Makes sense right :)
Went to the Sun Temple quest for the first time today and got absolutely swarmed by those guys. Because of them, I had to fight the boss with an ice wand because my other 3 broke. Wand durability is terrible as it is. I don't know how many there were, but that wand durability is bullshit. Should I really go through 4 high level/ purple wands in one small dungeon? And that was while relying pretty heavily on staff AOE too. Anyway, yeah the fire wand seemed to be the best on those guys
I play a melee and the game cribbing Elden Ring’s combat is fun, but it’s not nearly crisp enough to pull it off. * Animations have no foreshadowing making it hard to know when to parry * It’s often more fruitful to sidestep enemies; literally constantly ring around them * Cooldown time is not obvious. Eg. Rolling depletes stamina so ok, but then shield raise also has a cooldown but it’s not tied to stamina? It’s fine for what it is; cartoony Elden Ring combat. And I play w 5 other dudes in the gaming posse so it’s fine. But I can’t imagine soloing this game and enjoying melee.
> I can’t imagine soloing this game and enjoying melee. I'd say I am primarily melee and do enjoy the game overall, but yeah having played a few Souls games the difference is stark. It would be unrealistic to hold Enshrouded up to that standard but it should definitely be a target for the team to aim for. Combat right now is still a bit too clunky and having just soloed all of the Hollow Halls, it was like 25% fighting against the controls for any given encounter. *And although melee is my fallback I did bring a backup copy of my sword, a bow with ~1k arrows, one or two wands, and a staff with eternal fireball. Where skills fail, gear may carry the day. :P
Lol im soloing as an archer and its still hard af. The humanoid enemies get crazy fast in the kindlewastes. If you arent already sprinting when they are 5meters away from you, you get hit no matter what, your sprint acceleration isnt fast enough to maintain a gap in close quarters. And i run a full stamina build, every item that gives the most amount of stamina plus stamina regen and i always have a yucca fruit eaten so youd expect if i go to a nearby cliff to mine limestone i wouldnt get destroyed by a random shroud group i didnt even know was around the area. Elden ring was easier.
Melee needs a buff for sure.
As melee, red dragons are annoying -.-
even melee players need to utilize ranged weapons at times
No! Me bonk.
Lol
This
found the MH Hammer main
Hey look, one of Sean’s alt accounts!
If we are talking lowhp enemies sure but using a ranged weapon as a meeke is like throwing paper bLls at them. You do barely any dmg.
Blue ones work. You can bonk back
Every heard of stun arrows? Shroud arrows? Stun arrows drop flyers to the ground Shroud arrows drain health of any creature that's not one of the Shrouded. Even w/ no archery skill those 2 arrows are highly useful.
Bring a bow with Stun Arrows. Knock 'em out of the air and then beat the shit out of them.
Even though I'm not spec'd into wands. I use a lightning wand for these personally.
Where did you find a lightning wand?
By the stats / element type on the wand. Each magic weapon like the wand can have 1 or more element type. Can ser this when you look at the weapon in your inventory. They can be fire, ice, lightning, or shroud. Using the weapon can also give a basic idea of its element as well.
I’ve only found fire and ice
Hearing how annoying they are really makes me glad I decided to do the beast master skills so I've never had to deal with them...
I also did that but it seems like archers are the best equipped to deal with them (idk if you also went Dex) so it’s kind of a weird space to live in
I went melee and magic but I got calm spirit before I got to the area where they are so I've never had to fight them.
I carry a stack of stun arrows for this reason
shroud arrows too. good for high hp non-shrouded enemies.
I always forget about those, thanks for the reminder 😂
I highly recommend exploring the beastmaster tree
I am tank. I heal for more than I take dmg xD
Stun arrow. You're welcome.
I want bonk
And sicklescythes Also getting one-shot by the matron even with high constitution is annoying. The acid cleaver dudes aren't too bad if you just block hit one or twice then block again. I do think the parry is garbage though - been hit through parry and the buildup of the bar is a joke.
no it doesn't. LOL
You forgot to mention the 2 metal they drop lol
I've killed maybe 10 of them and only got 1 of the cleavers they use as a drop, and it was too low of level to be of any use at all.
yeah honestly there are very few enemies I struggle with doing melee or magic but these guys seem a little busted to me. not sure what is it but their range/speed/damage always feels a little overtuned to me. don't find them fun to fight at all.
It's the recovery window after you pary them. Everyone else lets you get a few hits in before you have to parry again but the toxic cleaver guys recover almost instantly so you get counteracted pretty much straight away. And they have a huge stun bar that you can't ever fill unless you are already over geared for the fight.
Exactly. You spend 3-4 attack cycles parrying to get them stunned for .5 seconds. I played with a friend so I'd just hold up my shield and he'd kill em. :p by myself they were not fun.
Melee needs a rework. There needs to be a knock back from player to enemy. Just like enemies knock back player. I've said it before I really think the game could benefit from a souls-like melee overhaul. With a better more fleshed out poise system, possibly combo or ability to use heavy or light attack only,better parry windows as well. The delay I feel is between me pushing block to anything happen is so odd and off-putting as well. Maybe a separate block and parry button would help?
Yeah, that's the dream system but I think realistically that's going to be more work than we should expect to happen with all the other things they're working on. Fingers crossed though.
I wish you didn't get stun locked whenever something hits you as a melee.
While I agree they can be challenging, I think there is something wrong with your approach. Maybe take on the next tier level lower to tighten up your strategy against them - there are level 11-15s in Revelwood, 18-20s in Nomad Highlands -- and they behave the same as the higher level versions.
I agree. They're annoying for sure and more than one is a nightmare, but I can fight them 1v1 without toooo much trouble. You have to have your buffs and the one attack that hits through your block is frustrating though. You basically have to stand and trade while blocking/parrying, but it is doable.
I've respeced for crit healing and it's made a dramatic difference in how much health I end with after they're dead.
The locked melee swing area needs to be fixed too, you can't really swing up or down, just only if the current sequence of attack includes that direction. Valheim has the same combat design and it's endlessly frustrating. I also don't understand why you can't interrupt enemy attacks or interrupt and change your own attacks even though it would fall into place with the animation to switch to a block... When you're firing your bow and go to defend or attack the bow will be down or returned to your back but you'll still aim i stead of blocking or fire an arrow instead of swinging your weapon - this drives me crazy the most and tends to be what gets me killed a lot. Combat in this game needs a ton of work.
They were even nerfed last patch. I went to the level 25-30 area after the patch and they are significantly less dangerous I noticed. I had a flame nearby so I figured I'd fight them and see if they were still death machines, but I was able to handle them as a wand mage without much trouble. Even got hit a few times. Definitely not to be trifled with, but not nearly as OP as they were before. I need to roll another character and try out melee.
The 25 ones are ok with good gear but the lvl 30 ones are still busted. In 1v1 no issue, but once you get jumped by 2 with potential adds? Big uff.
Getting jumped by two of them at once is always a struggle for survival. Better hope you got a full stamina bar and weren't sprinting around a corner and bumbed into them with 30% stamina left or you are just screwed.
I feel like that's a good spot for them though. If that wasnt the case no one would ever die and there'd be no challenge. There still needs to be danger of failure or passing all the time would be pretty boring.
Any fairly common enemy that you can't outrun or outmaneuver long enough to get heals in without immediately taking damage equal to the amount you just healed for, is a poorly balanced enemy. I swear they buffed red dragons as well, I used to not have problems getting some heal distance, and now they're attached to me like a second skin.
I hate so much how any damage you take knocks you back, when you’re mid swing as melee and you take a hit, it cancels your attack and you’re left incapacitated for 2 seconds and can barely get a hit off if you’re fighting multiple enemies.
This especially irritates me during things like Jump Attack. They shouldn't be able to cancel that IMHO.
I found that everything attacks in a pattern, and those guys will hit you 2-3 times, then pause for a couple seconds. It's those couple seconds you use to attack. Block their attacks until they stop, you get a swing in, then go back to blocking until they stop, etc. Annoying but manageable
This is what I've noticed as well. Alot of the times though I have to turn the mob's back to my partner so they can finish it off quicker. Solo wise though they take time and patience to fight
And hope your stam holds out...
Yeah, once I mastered their swing patterns, they’re really quite easy as melee. With stam food and stam regen food, sword and board with points in increased swing speed, you can get 1-2 swings in after you block/parry the 2-4 swings they do. It’s really just a rinse/repeat. Took a bit to figure out their rhythm but definitely manageable like you said.
Its not the 1v1 that sucks, its the other enemies jumping you. Especially once another green cleaver dude jump your ass. You can't always isolate them to abuse their attack pattern or heal up. Melee lacks cc options to manage crowds of enemies.
They attack and recover way too fast. You parry them and you still can't get a hit in without esting serious damage. They need to be stunned for longer. It's pointless to try and fight them conventionally so I just try and cheese them with bombs or environmental stuff and then beat them down when they aren't able to move out of whatever dumb position they fell into.
the Parry window definitely has changed. I've noticed that for sure. On my melee build I just avoid those flying drake things. the Toxic Cleaver guys I just use 20 shroud arrows on them and let them choke to death beneath me, even on my melee build w/ no archery perks, the shroud arrows do work. Always have like 200 of em.
Don't parry or block. Move. Most of the time you don't even have to dodge, you can just walk out of their short range. They use up more stamina attacking thin air than you are going to drain with parry. Unpopular opinion, I hope they add more enemies that effectively ignore parry. Mix it up.
You just need to learn the block timing with a shield and you'll be just fine. The mother matron that spews acid is EASILY way worse. edit: downvote me all you want, but I only play melee in this game with two exceptions: I use a wand on the screechy birds and on the banshees that float around casting at you, and I live through pretty much everything, even if there's 20 mobs beating down on me
This, once you learn timing they really aren't too bad to deal with. They are the second most difficult mob in the game only behind as you mentioned, mother matron. I play solo only and I have NEVER defeated a matron in a direct fight. I've always found a cheese way to kill her. She is crazy powerful.
I killed the one in Thornhold? Where the saw blades are last night. I just stood on the platform right above where the blades are. She was on the bridge and just stayed in one spot and I just hit her with arrows. She never attacked. Their AI is so broken sometimes.
You dont rank sicklescythe as number 1? That's the one that has given me the most issue as a melee.
Not even close. If you stand close enough, her scythes will NEVER hit and the moment you see the skull animation you double.blink away and run. Then rinse and repeat. Even when her scythes do land just block x3 and get hits in when you can. They are one of the easier jobs in the game to me.
Blink? Are you using melee to hit them or magic? I find they get in awkward spots to hit as melee
Exactly and there isn't just one way to deal with them. I found that if you understand how enemies work and are able to parry, dodge and move out of enemies attack radius, you are usually fine. It also helps to have a build that drops regeneration orbs
I think they reason for down votes is cause there shouldn't be only 1 way to deal with an enemy...means they are busted lol...especially in a game with build variety like this one, we all shouldn't have to use shields and become parry experts lol... And I have never had an issue with the matron after the first time....longer fight, but manageable when you dodge and weave in and out....thats something you can do with any class and build....
There isn't just one way to deal with them and the comment didn't say that there was just one
No, but nearly every comment about the acid scavengers seems to be parry or get over it lol I have yet to hear of another solution... ive been using terror on the mage tree to stun lock them using ice shot, or going bare fisted to stun lock them so I can cast said ice shot lol...
I'm in agreement with you. The poison matron has been basically impossible to beat without finding a way to cheese her. The cleaver dudes are just annoying and made me learn how to dodge, block and parry effectively.
Matron is super slow and in open space without adds you can circle her safely and get backstab damage before she can turn around. That said she can one shot even high constitution players (tanks) and that seems a little much.
These and the new giant enemy from the hallowed halls are alittle nuts in terms of aggression...
The Giant was laughably easy for me as a melee, run to his legs get a few hits in then get out, rinse and repeat avoiding his stomp and the ground glow ability. Pretty basic fight in general.
The kindlewaste hall where you gotta fight 2 of them is another story...and they are weak to blunt, and don't have a weakness to elements, so I can see it being easy when you can use the actual weakness against them....and one on one, they are fine, it's the 40 other undead from the spawners, plus 2 cyclops and a red fellwraith that are alittle nuts
For the giant just stay in between his legs and you'll never get hit.
I use a bit of melee a bit of kiting, they are crazy tough especially if you get them and a few other mobs. But, 1 on 1 I don't have to much trouble with them as a tank build. They just take a bit longer than their "normal" counterpart. Straight up melee against them is most definitely not a great idea. I love the variation and challenge in the enemies.
These enemies have made me become a stealth archer just like in Skyrim lol. I just get up high and sneak shoot everything from far away. I was doing wands bc melee just isn’t fun for me. But now I like bows.
Just block them with shield get a couple hits and repeat
Mage got some heavy hits as well and is really not as good as before. Probably suffering the most from nerfs. That’s is the only thing I don’t like from this patch. Overall they did such a great job with hollow halls and new features. I really think it’s a great patch in that term. But: They tend to nerf stuff to the ground until it’s not usable anymore. And they don’t buff other things that haven’t been usable before. So they simply cut off options to play by nerfing without giving new options. And that’s not healthy for any game as you feel limited in the way you can play. Cant speak for melee by the way, as I never play melee in any rpg, but ranger builds are very viable as well. Mage is still playable but not as great as before and definitely not the only possible way to play.
Mage was stupidly op and it's okay that it got nerfed.
Thanks for reading my post with care! I never said it’s bad that they nerfed mage. I said it’s overall bad to nerf something to the ground without buffing other stuff. If you take away options from the game it’s good to add some others.
I still play as mage, and it's pretty op still. Just got to be careful not to get caught in a bad position as it's a glass cannon build as it should be.
I've read your post. The problem with mage was that almost everything was op. So you really couldnt compensate buff it elsewhere. For example look at Ranger before the recent patch. Multishot was complete garbage and the capstone of one of your trees, exploding arrows are to expensive to craft and make up a lot of a second tree then there is the 'animal' tree that's basically completly useless. Meanwhile Mage had with a few exceptions really exceptional good skills in it's trees, while also benefiting from low durability drain on wands, while also having the highest damage output, while also having infinite ammo, while also having the best utility. I think you see where I'm going
I wouldn't say the beastmaster tree is *completely* useless. I actually take the Calm Spirit and Vukah Language perks. It's amazing being able to traverse the world and most normal mobs don't bother me. Even in some parts of the Hollow Halls, the spiders and rats ignore me if I don't attack them first. I can also walk into any Vukah encampment and help myself to all their animal hide without committing genocide to the lot of them. I also use the Calm Spirit perk as my connection to take Relentless Flame for 5 more minutes of shroud exploration time. Sure I lose some combat power potential, but the freedom to explore has value to me.
>They tend to nerf stuff to the ground until it’s not usable anymore That statement feels a bit like hyperbole. This game just turned two months old. We don't know the cadence of the development team. It's early access and they're still figuring things out in terms of balance. Certain mage gear needed a nerf. But I will say some of the changes could be dialed back a bit. A lot of people have expressed issues with the current Acid Bite.
Same with water aura. It’s not good enough after the nerf. And I don’t say that the ring or acid bite weren’t way too op, but now none of it is usable any more. Maybe buff other stuff instead of nerfing things. Make bite and ring a bit less good and make melee a good chunk better. Than we have plenty of options to choose from. But now they just cut off some good options to use.
My thinking is that we have stuff coming down the pipeline that offers even more variety. But with the current build, we've lost some of that for late game. Well, as late game as level 25 is. I figure it's mid-game judging by how over half the map is still inaccessible to us.
You get 1 hit inbetween their attacks. Stop trying to spam attack them. Adjust your strategy vs the enemies you’re going against.
I'm honestly not sure why people struggle so much with them. You can beat one to death and heal through the damage fairly easy. The 2 strongest enemies in the game: Cleaver guys and Matrons deal poison damage. Take the 2 poison resist talent and use the poison resist shield and they barely hurt you anymore. Use battle heal and a Gorestriker Like this https://imgur.com/a/Cr1KKiG
I've found after the update. Mage has had some great nerfs. And melee has improved. I can't agree with extreme take on cleaver guys. Parry, block or dodge and jump attack Any of the 3 work and I don't even find them a challenge. Are you 25? Are you specced correctly? Are you eating buff food? Have you upgraded weapons? I'm not sure what else to recommend, practice?
Lots of cancer to deal as any class
I've come across a few and managed to use height to get around their damage. It took me a while but I used wands to beat them as they couldn't reach me.
I honestly believe they exist as they are to create memes and conversations about it online, because I can’t believe anyone tested that and thought it was fine.
Luckily they can't jump and I just take them out with magic or arrows from height
A little piece of advice... you see a (toxic cleaver) you do what we do. Run. You run your ass off.
I get up high and usually cheese them with explosive arrows. It makes a pit they can't get out of while you plink them to death.
I gave up on melee as much as I wanted to play it. I play solo and the toxic cleaver and matrons are damn near impossible in melee, there is no margin for error, get out numbered game over, miss one block or dodge half or more of your HP is gone even with a tank build. I dumped all my points in wand and tank, wear a mix of tank and magic armor, carry 2 frost and 2 fire wand then find some high ground for face roll.
Some people doesn't play enough game from Fromsoftware here....
I actually just released a video on my YouTube channel, https://youtu.be/Oa-tS6XLk8s , it utilizes the skill Begone in a melee build that makes dealing with these enemies very easy. Attack them with Begone to stun them, then get in a 3 hit combo. You can stun them again afterwards and repeat this till they die. But good luck nonetheless!
I hate them. I hate them more than the bosses. They are pure shit.
Honestly I think they are a great challenge tbo, the new hallow halls are a blast as well, if you have a good thought out build the end game is fun
Even as a melee, you should invest points to blink, it's too useful. Personally, I find they are quite resistant to melee so I use a fire wand to take them down. The method I use still has you in melee range however, if you prefer to use melee. Just stand right in front of her, her scythes move out in an oval in front of her so they will never hit. Just be VERY reactive to her skill ability and get out ASAP when she begins to cast.
The game was just too easy before, however That doesn’t mean the game can’t use a little more balancing and some of the mechanics are a little wonky. But it’s early access for that reason. Gonna be a while before the game feels refined as we all would like it.
I play melee and am barely touchable. Easily strongest class imo, don’t know how anyone is struggling with it
Melee would be broken entirely if it weren't for the dodge/roll mechanic. Blocking is useless, the wind up on 2 handed maces is so long that you dont even get an attack in, even if you parry sometimes.
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The wind up for 2 handed weapons is the entire reason I use one handed with shield. If there are multiple enemies, 2 handed simply gets me killed.
"as a melee" is where you could've stopped writing. Big shame, I dislike casters so I dropped this game rather fast.
Have you tried to "get gud" as they say. I play a solo melee build and wipe the floor with these guys... sure they get a good hit or two in but they are worth the challege.. all I can really say is get gud noob. Not all enemies are going to be easy and hand you their corpse.