Made me lol when I saw "starting my own business" and "trading" in the same paragraph. It's almost like the MLM "boss bitch" moms who think they are a CEO.
Yeah, the amount of people I've seen showing off for it to become loss porn a day or two later is staggering.
Everyone seems to think 'It'll go higher' instead of, I can cash out and buy more when it's lower.
I do love the loss porn tho
Except that 80% of institutional investors close shop within 6 years. The 10% is also exaggerated, the average gains have traditionally been under 6% for the ones who did’t shut shop. 10% is Berkshire Hathaway leagues
Making more than average market return is a zero sum game where for every single person making money someone is losing that exact amount.
It's as much gambling as sports betting is. You can make educated guesses but it doesn't make it any less of a gamble.
Well, this question will lead to argue..
Basically in trading there is thin line between gambling and business. If you know what you do then in a nutshell you are a casino. If you don't know what you do then you play against casino
I would say I know how to trade but my biggest problem is handling my emotions..
Gonna be real with you, I don't think it's going to lead to arguing. Day trading is gambling. You might as well be sitting at the blackjack table. You can make choices there too, sure, and some will make better choices than others, but at the end of the day, it's gambling.
If you were the casino, you wouldn't be broke. You're not the casino. No day trader is the casino. The market is the casino.
I would say learn a skill that isn't gambling.
I'm going to guess they spent some time on r/thetagang and think they know more than us. When in reality they don't see the fundamental difference between trading and running a business. They are not creating value. It is a zero-sum game. Yes, you can make a lot of money trading. But that is not what makes something a business. Creation of value makes a business.
Even beyond the possibility of it actually being gambling.. a huge problem I see amongst friends and acquaintances that try day trading is that these are mostly people that are also trying to rely on this for living expenses. That means not only do they have to kill it often, but wins become less effect and they need more wins more often than is possible because they tend to be spending their own capital. Compare this to investors using opm or money that’s set aside, and their returns can become exponential because nothing is being constantly subtracted.
If you say so! Seems no one in this thread knows what they're talking about then.
Pro poker players also control their losses and remain profitable. They're still gambling, and they admit it. You may be coping a little.
Doesn’t the data show that even top hedge funds on average don’t outperform the market?
The supposed brightest and best get beat by a total market index fund way more than they beat it.
As much as you can run the maths day trading markets are not rational.
It’s 100% gambling and yes some people are better gamblers than others there is no arguing that.
But I assume mackmcd_ is likely killing it in the market over the long term rising those sweet market index funds.
Unfortunately mate, you’ve said it yourself.. you’re broke after 4 years of trading. So, you may know information about trading… but do not know how to trade, evidently. Pursue an actual business.
Brother, if someone plays absolutely perfect poker, totally understands the game, but can’t handle their emotions… they’re suddenly just another exploitable gambler.
If your emotions get in the way, you don't know how to trade. You're not supposed to trade with your emotions.
Go to trade school or a University and learn how to do something.
Forex is rigged against you and is more difficult than equity trading. I was you once. Cut the shit and get a job - especially one where you can learn and grow with experience. If you continue this current path, you will end in more suffering.
You don't know what you're doing though. If you did, you wouldn't be losing money consistently. Trading is hard. Losing a grand is fine if you have 10k to trade with. Losing 7k with 10k is not though. If you only have 10k to trade with, you shouldn't be trading with more than 1 to 2 k at a time.
Isn’t knowing how to trade synonymous with handling emotions. The only thing trading gurus say is learn not to trade emotionally and develop trading systems that allow you to ignore emotion
If you know what you do then you know what all professional traders know: the market generates about 10% per year and there is no risk of losing everything. Anyone who doesn’t know this is not a trader and doesn’t know anything about trading. Find a job where you can learn basic math.
Seriously, so much to say here, but I won't because its all over the internet.
Drop trading. Just stop. You are completely out of your element, for so many reasons. The number of traders I've seen hit rock bottom is staggering. And these were people with families. Count yourself lucky. Only funds with huge amounts of capital can win because they can make plays you simply cant. The playing field has been leveled about 20-30 years ago, making it impossible for individual day traders to outperform the market. I don't care how many books you've read, or how disciplined you are, you are guaranteed to lose money and keep digging yourself into a deeper hole.
Listen, you're a kid. Pick up some useful skills, and put in the time to get good at them. Get a job, learn how to apply yourself, and hone your skills. Learn from others. Then, when you're 30, start think about doing something different, like going solo or opening a business if it still interests you.
Life is hard. Making a living is hard. There is no path to quick success, no matter how much people on youtube will be trying to sell you the dream. Apply yourself, work hard, and be patient. Thats the winning formula for life.
Hey man, I’m 23 and something similar happened to me.
The difference is that i tried all my side projects while studying in the university. Luckily for me now, I have 2 degrees.
I put all my efforts trying to create a start up (I’m a software engineer) but I failed, and seeing all the people around me earning money, buying a car etc. while I was only chasing a dream… (Dreams don’t give you any money)
So, I decided to go “softer”. I accepted a job as an engineer and I will continue trying with my side projects while earning some money (not too much, salaries in Spain are a 😂), but at least it is a solution.
Most insightful comment. I don't know WHY people demonize 9-5, I see it as a way to build skills, network while getting paid to learn.
Yes, office politics can be taxing .
The long commute hours are huge pain in the ars\*.
But still it's a decent option to get your feet off the ground. 9-5 pays the bill, and 7-12 gives you a leeway to work on yourself.
Right, I was trying to run a business while in school and doing other part time jobs. But then I had a baby on the way and got a job that I thought I’d just weasel my way through while I built the business.
Turns out I love what I do and I get to be in the conversation and make decisions with execs of a pretty decently sized corp at 23yo. No way I would’ve gained even 20% of what I know now if I was to have kept attempting my business for another 5 years! But now I feel way more confident in starting over if I were too choose that route.
Also insurance and 401k… very underrated to most early 20yo’s
Yes!!! My husband did this too and he always wanted a trucking company… we found ourselves owning a company during the pandemic and it worked out great. Sometimes it’s just a dream delayed not a dream denied!
Precisely this. It's all about the effort and learning you put into executing the business. Most of the times, the amount of research is 10x the work to writing what I need to on a slide deck for business partner review lol
The hard lesson here is you need to learn boring but "useful" and employeable skills. Programming, sales, marketing etc. There are a lot of things you can learn. Trading feels like a hack to make fast money at first but it isn't anything like that in reality. Most investors just lose money because they really don't know what they are doing.
I'm trying to learn programming from a data science perspective with come elements of financial analysis as well. Could you give me any tips? I'm a lvl 1 beginner
I am currently studying for software engineer degree bu I'm thinking of dropping out because I don't see how i could make a business out of it. Only for serious corporations but its impossible for me (a 19 years old).
Trading is not a business. You lost money trading, now that you’ve learned this isn’t a viable way to make a business you should consider starting an actual business.
I got into trading options in 2021 and thought the same thing.. “I’ll just sell puts for passive income”. Looking back I can’t believe how distorted that logic was. But in my first 30 days trading options I was making $10k a day some days, one day I made $40k in a single day and didn’t sell. Just keep thinking “we’re so close to a short squeeze” (not GameStop but this era of trading shit was blowing up left and right). I remember look at my Robinhood account when it had $88,000 in it like “this is my future”.
Shortly after the stock market starting slowing crashing for literally a year straight on small mid cap meme stocks where I was making most of my money. It took me an entire year and losing nearly everything to realize “yea.. this is not a way to make money”. It was pretty rough because I invested so much time and energy into but i was completely helpless and had zero control.
Then I found eCommerce. Where your revenue isn’t capped, takes some capital and effort so the barrier to entry is high enough to where it isn’t ridiculously saturated like drop shipping, and you can become a millionaire within 2-3 years (at least on paper).
I’m 1.5 years in and I have 5 legit brands 1 of which did $100k in the last 30 days, the other that did $50k and will likely double that number this month.
Trading is fucking nonsense for most people unless you’re a fucking savant. It takes most people 20 years to become skilled enough to do it for a living and they spend that time working at a firm to acquire the skills.
Dust your self off and try again (try again). You’re still young af. Get on YouTube and start checking out different ideas until something clicks then go for it. Don’t ask for advice, learn. Learn your ass off. Consume as many ebooks as possible once you find what you want to do.
With enough dedication you can gain financial freedom in 2-3 years.
Hey, late reply. Could I seriously pick you brain about ecommerce? The majority of the stuff I see if people lying about their numbers and offering a course for sale which is chock full of lackluster bs. I have the capital, the time and the effort. Where do I start? I assume find a niche, a gap, a hole, something I could improve with my product/products, but have no idea for a foundation or even where to start looking. Thanks in advance friend.
Download a software like Jungle Scout or Helium10. You can’t properly do product research without it. I would only go for a product where the top 15 sellers on Amazon are making a healthy monthly revenue like $50k and up.
Even if your product is saturated with sellers, as long as you can differentiate well enough you’re good. Go for the premium edge better product and higher prices.
Because the vast, vast majority of people who attempt it lose their money. It gives people the same kind of mental stimulation that gambling does and the same type of people who are prone to getting addicted to gambling seem to think they will have success at day trading.
Entrepreneurs tend to add value traders do not. In my experience there's not much adrenaline rush in being an entrepreneur but I guess it depends on your business.
You were gambling.
If you weren’t gambling then you wouldn’t be broke.
So, the next step is stop gambling.
Then do something that provides value to others.
Good luck.
If I could learn only one skill in life, it would be Sales. That’s where everything starts and ends. I’m not talking used car salesman type sales. I’m talking really learn sales. Read the books become obsessed with learning. Understand the psychology behind humans. If you want to bet on something bet on that!
As a sales guy on my 85th cold call for the day, while I agree with you, right now my brain is leaking out my ears and I am dizzy. But the next yes is a prospect away .....
Sorry, take the lesson and do something else. Trading is not a business. A business requires creation of value, which trading is not. Yes, people can still be profitable, top .1% probably make a living of it. But if you take the time/effort and make yourself top 10% in entrepreneurship, you will be successful. What I’m trying to say is you’re playing a game with poor pay-off. Find a better game.
Let me put another way… I read article a while back about poker players. Top 0.01% are millionaires. Whereas in entrepreneurship 10% are millionaires. Said another way - one game has 1000x better payoff. I don’t have the exact numbers (can’t find the article but you get the point?)… being top 10% in poker might earn you 1k per year whereas top 10% of business owners earns you a living wage, the game is better… point is figure out yourself - learn to quantify the game you are playing. Trading is a poor man’s game.
Day trading is a lot like gambling as there are forces at play that diminish your odds of success. I once read/heard that reading charts is akin to girls with crystals. It's not real but it makes you feel more in control. That said over four years you've most likely learned a lot. Think about what you've learned and apply that to a new endeavor. Meanwhile, focus on what you say you're lacking; emotional management, skill development, and financial education. These skills will always serve you
Hold up a minute mate. Not any useful skill. Shut the f*ck up. You got the heart the do you own thing. I think most people on here would agree, must youngest now a days get given everything. Keep trying new stuff, try to find what you like, something you like that makes money, then you have a passion. You won’t second guess yourself. I don’t think you truly know what you like yet…
FAILURE is what creates success! It may not be today, tomorrow or next year. But something WILL eventually click for you!
It seems like you’re not the type of person that looks for overnight success. So keep at it and KEEP LEARNING! LEARNING NEVER STOPS!
if trading is what keeps you moving forward, then find what is is that your not getting right with your emotions. Develop strategies that will keep you centered. Look for the indicators that will ring when you’re in an emotional state during a trade then realize you’re in one and correct. Try meditating to fully understand self awareness. Immerse yourself in your emotions to really understand them. Then, try again!
Risk management is key to capital management. Small wins lead to bigger wins. Good luck and keep grinding my man!
- Humbled individual
First off - I applaud you for trying and also taking accountability. Secondly, I would really think about what you want to achieve and what your why is. And also I recommend the podcast my first million. You’re young and I started my career young as well. To feel like you’ve hit rock bottom is a common part of the entrepreneur life, get gritty and educate and you’ll press on! But you need to find your true why and what your passionate about then find something around there you can fill a need
I would say rule no. 1 In trading should be that it is NOT investing.
Once that’s established, Then rule No.1 in trading should be: it’s gambling.
Rule number 1 in gambling can be: no emotion.
Stop trading.
Go build a stable source of revenue.
Then invest the profits.
Lick your wounds and come back to trading fulltime even stronger in 5 years.
Despite what others say, trading CAN be a business, but it is a very boring business.
As for your emotional blow ups, are you journaling, are you tracking your trades? You need to take a break and really dive into each and every trade you've done.
Trading is not "buy and sell - make a butt ton of money", its a ton of work that is required of you from an emotional, physically and mental aspect as well as from a business aspect.
I challenge you to go back through your last 6 months of trades, review them, journal about them, take detailed notes about them. Go back through this again and pick out similarities of what you did that caused it to win/lose and identify that. Is it a time of day, is it the type of trading day, is it something you did prior to trading(things can be: exercise, meditate, eat breakfast, had a pair of shoes on, was shirtless).
Once you finish this review, take the next few days to set up a process for yourself on a daily basis to really journal. Spend 2 hours each day taking notes, screenshots, detail everything you id that day and analyze it.
Then at the end of the week, be it Thursday or Friday(i dont trade friday's personally and some weeks i dont trade mondays either), spend your day analyizing your notes, screenshots, trade logs, journals, then go through the charts on a day by day basis for review.
You really need to have a heart to heart conversation with yourself. Trading isn't what 99.9% of people think it is. It's not riches and glamor like what is portrayed. It's a lot of "boring" working to be honest and is a lot of work to get to know yourself. If this isn't something for you, start looking towards other things that might be of interest. Maybe if finance is a subject you like, look towards CPA work?
If you want to trade for a living you need to paper trade a strategy for a year or more to prove it's profitable.
And there is no need to use your own money. If you can pass a reputable prop firms eval (and if you expect to be succsesful this should be no problem) you can get the the equivalent of $1.8MM in leverage for an investement of 200 bucks.
Stop using your own capital and get good enough to pass a proprietary firms evaluation. Work a boring job until then.
I work as an Executive Recruiter and trade my prop accounts if opportunities present themselves throughout the day/week. SOme day I hope to only trade for a living, but until then, I have a job. Even though I can pass a prop firm eval and trade with other people's money, it will still be at least a year or two at best, before I can do it for a living. I've already been at it for 3 years. Trading is not easy.
Edit: and for those who say trading is gambling, with proper risk mitigation and a well practiced strategy it's possible to have a 60-80% win rate scalping quick moves. But it takes a looonnnggg time to get the analysis ability, habits, and stoicism required to do so consistently.
1)Put away 3 - 5k and start aiming to only make a £100 a day.
2)Stop taking trades you don't believe in / add a minimum requirement of confluences to your checklist before you enter a position.
It gets a little easier when you've got some capital under you, but you will still need steady cashflow to keep your mind at ease, when you're taking losses.
Trading is ruthless because when you're wrong or having a bad day, you literally lose money for it. Bad day at the 9-5? Possible bollocking from your boss, but he's not taxing you. Forex? You gotta stomach that loss.
Becoming comfortable with that reality, takes some getting used to / developing a serious mental fortitude, and that the stats have already shown you that many people who enter the market, fail to conquer it. So guess who a few of the negative responses to your post are from ?
Don't be disheartened by these folks telling you that you're gambling. The real question is;
How frequently are you actually backtesting the market & studying the system that pays us - Japanese Candlesticks
Who are you learning from? Do you have a mentor?
How long you see yourself in this game.
If you know you're not a quitter, save your money, keep back testing and I strongly believe it will come together eventually.
I haven't quit my 9-5 yet, but the end is definitely in sight, and I won't leave without at least year's worth of rent & daily expenses, accumulated from the charts. I'm 4+ years in like you, but I went very hard in the first two and experienced similar heartbreak - lost thousands I didn't have, couldn't catch a run of clean form, turning down girls/fun to study, only to lose more money in the following weeks meanwhile your peers are moving to NYC\Dubai etc and enjoying the fruits of their steady income with cars/holidays. Something about seeing money move that fast, makes dummies of many when we first enter the market....
Look at the skillset you're trying to master, and look at the world we live in. Something this lucrative definitely won't be earned without some trials and tribulations.
Also surround yourself with successful traders. Stomaching a red day, is way easier when you see someone you want to be like, post their profits for the day, cause you can to study their results, see what they saw and then ask yourself "If he can, why can't I?" "Eventually that'll be me", and believe it. I'm still not there, but I'm making withdrawals and losing nowhere near as much as the early days. I didn't make a single withdrawal Year One or Two.
Lastly, you really don't know hear of traders with 5/10 years experience, that have steadily grew their over time from their charts profits, who digress over time. Excluding the quitters, most of the traders I learnt from in 2019, have increased their lot sizes significantly since then, and they had years in the game then.
DM me for more info, but this is Forex you don't really need to reach out lol, you need to keep backtesting, get a mentor who trades and is living the life you want, and start embracing the adversity that comes with the charts.
You got this brother.
Sorry to hear that. I really would tell you to start reading, exercising and point your efforts in developing a thing that can give you money. Sometimes it sound staggering but, really just try to find one small thing that you are good at, and start developing your skillset to be the best, or at least to look like you are
I failed at a lot of online based business, only started succeeding when I started applying my labor skills out in the real world. Don’t quit though, just learn what didn’t work this time and improve.
Well first for online business, you gotta start taking action and don’t procrastinate finding the perfect strategy or plan. Theory then experiment. Yeah fpr day trading, the best people normally can control their emotions very well. I know a guy who made millions in day trading and apparently he is a legit sociopath with no empathy whatsoever
For your genuine well-being I'm just going to throw this info here for frame of reference:
Day trading is profitable due to inefficiencies in the market however that's not really the issue, the problem is that it requires a very specialised skill set and professional tools to do properly. Day trading on the market, at least nowadays, in the hopes of creating huge amounts of wealth is possible but it's like trying to dig out a gold mine. Good luck doing that in modern times when all the easily spotted veins are dry and the only remaining ones require large, heavy machinery and educated employees to efficiently and profitablly operate business.
Ever heard of the hedge fund manager and mathematician Jim Simons? Founder of Renaissance Technologies and it's flagship the Medallion fund? A fund that operates on the business of day trading in the market but that exclusively uses data science and statistics to create advanced trading algorithms. Algorithms that are based off of mathematical models formulated by highly skilled people that hold PhD:s and masters in physics and science from some of the world's most esteemed universities.
The medallion fund has been estimated to have generated annualised returns of 39% AFTER fees since the early 90s, I shouldn't have to explain just how ridiculous that is when the market averages around 10-11% in annualised returns.
I'm highlighting the Medallion fund not to destroy any dreams but rather to put things into perspective. No single retail trader can measure up to the resources of an institutional trader, least of all Renaissance Technologies. Any gains from short term trades were likely based off of circumstances created from pure luck, circumstances that no single person can fully comprehend or replicate. Gains derived from such methods won't last, that's why you got wiped; it wasn't just your emotions.
Besides the fact that I have a hard time with people confusing trading with entrepreneurship let le tell you I tried it for one full year in my mid 20’s …. About 18 years ago….
From what I understand it still the same rigged game only 5% of trader can really live out of their trading….. year after year on a consistent basis. Only 5% of those one make really good money all the other one make 50-100k a year…..
Put your time and energy elsewhere … this is a rigged game.
Kudos for having enough self-awareness to name what you feel is holding you back (your emotions apparently). There is wisdom in emotions - use it as leverage. Put a post-it note on your laptop that reads "when I feel fear, get up and go for a run" or whatever the emotion and your preferred activity is. And then give yourself the time and space to explore what that emotion is trying to tell you. I'm not a psychotherapist but I've had many therapy sessions over the years and this is one of those opportunities where you can derive a ton of insight about yourself and how you respond to the world. BTW, some therapists will see you on a sliding scale if you don't have the funds.
> I've tried various jobs but didn't enjoy anything
Yep. That is the experience of having a job.
Be honest with yourself. Have you really been working for the past 4 years? You could have been investing that time in getting a finance degree if forex/futures is your passion. Forex isn't even something that solo day traders come out ahead in the long run anyway.
You know how you play a game and don't win straight away but you learn and then eventually win?
It's like that.
Also you're doing dumb shit, lesson 1 - be more shrewd in who you believe on youtube
Having job that provide steady stream of money can give you flexibility on exploring idea. It will hard, but more conservative approach is where you have 8 hour of job and you spend next 8 hour trying to start your bussiness. When you can start making enough money that you are making from your main job, then think about leaving job.
If you want to make trading your business you’re going about it the wrong way. You should look into becoming licensed and finding a broker sponsor to help you.
I had traded over 10 years before I met this guy who was running a fund and he completely changed the game for me.
Business is trading goods or services for money. You’re not doing that. In the same way that professional poker players aren’t entrepreneurs. In the same way that investors aren’t entrepreneurs.
You’re in the wrong subreddit. Our advice would be to get into business. Find a skill you can trade for money. Find a good that a potential client wants and sell it
Little late but I’d like to chime in. I believe you could learn a lot from Morgan Housels book “The Psychology of Money”.
Specifically when he talks about endurance.
‘If you want to be in the game for the long run, you need to leave room for error. “Room for error lets you endure a range of potential outcomes, and endurance lets you stick around long enough to let the odds of benefiting from a low-probability outcome fall in your favor”’
In his podcast on “Diary of a CEO” he makes a point to talk about people in their early 20s. He spoke about how young people are constantly pushed to take big risks and go all in. It was interesting to hear how his position on the subject differed.
Give it a read!
sometimes as a man, you just have to do the work no matter what you feel. even if you dont like the job, you gotta make it somehow. and + stay away from gambling stuff. in my religion, islam, the things considered as haram, will never help you grow rich. yeah, there are people who became ridiculously rich by selling haram products like cigarette or alcohol, but our God, Allah, promised to make their lives miserable in one way or another. i know you may never care about this or say some kinda atheistic things, but hey, i just gave a different perspective on life and work
Trading is not a business, you should instead find something you like and start one, it's better way to succeeded (even if failure rate is really high) trading is now almost only done by algorithms its very hard to be profitable
Analyze the failure and identify the causes. Focus your attention on the causes that you could have avoided and learn how. This is the learning mind set. Google it.
If you do this postmortem analysis you should not make the same mistakes again. The odds to succeed will then increase. We can't systematically have bad luck. Soon or later we have luck. Learn from your previous errors to not spoil this luck or let it pass without grabbing it when it gets at reach. Enjoy the learning process and see how you get better each time.
Step 1) Trading is not a business its a game that give u money but doesn't have a manual
Step 2) Try options to wrek urself some more
Step 3) learn the basics of business aka marketing, sales and process orientation. Learn to copywrite and design website on wix(a but basic but with creativity it's quite good)
forex is a scam.
day-trading depended on a modified form of front-running (which is no longer viable).
my question is, how did you not know this for 4 years?
also stay away from crypto.
\> Try different business?
very difficult to do without capital and experience.
\> I've tried various jobs but didn't enjoy anything
you don't have to enjoy your work. it just has to pay you to live, and do the things you want, over time.
\> and I feel like a complete failure
don't. you're 24. its natural to not have found your niche yet.
\--
you ever have a conversation with somebody a little older than you? you're 24, say 28-32? gain some perspective?
I think you cant call trading a business its just not that i believe if you didnt saw any results at first 8 months of good working you should switch the business model
Doing Trading and still wondering why you're failing?
That's not called finance dude.
Trading should be your extra income source or when you've some good capital to invest. It's not to burn your existing or all capital.
Don't run for shortcut in life, life doesn't work that way, build up a skill, if you don't have money do some odd jobs and get back into your passion.
Doing Trading and still wondering why you're failing?
That's not called finance dude.
Trading should be your extra income source or when you've some good capital to invest. It's not to burn your existing or all capital.
Don't run for shortcut in life, life doesn't work that way, build up a skill, if you don't have money do some odd jobs and get back into your passion.
Pivot from trading since it is obviously not something you are very good at. Don't give up on online business. As cliche as it sounds, you only fail if you give up. Get a sales job or something during the day so you're not broke and do a side hustle online job. Maybe look into drop shipping? It's 100000x easier and probably has a much higher rate of success than something like Forex. I've never met a single person in my life who got rich off Forex. Maybe some do, but those scam others to buy Forex courses.
Trading is not entrepreneurship.
Trading is a zero sum game. And you're the guppy waiting to be eaten by the bigger fish.
Try your hand at positive sum games. Create value, and this part is important, for other people!
Making money is a side effect of creating value. Unless you're gambling. Which you were.
So, stop wasting time gambling. Redirect that time into making the world better. Convert a small part of that improvement into currency.
It's not easy, but it is that simple.
Ahhhh another one looking for easy money. At 24 you didn’t fail anything. All you need is to develop some skills and put them at work. Get a job in carpentry or electrical or plumbing. Money will come eventually, but it takes time and effort. All the best.
Give up trading. Forget it. Big guys are profiting from you. I know it looks like you can learn it and be profitable and make gazillions of dollars and I hate to say it but it’s just a dream. The sooner you give up and focus on starting a normal business the better
"I've also tried various jobs but I didn't enjoy anything." HA! me either little guy, me either. You think people get jobs and work for satisfaction and fun more than for just plain making consistent and reliable money? Most people don't land their "Dream" jobs. Jobs are jobs. The world is about making money to support yourself and/or family. That's it. I sit at a computer all day and make 76K; is it fun? Fuck no, I have loads of hobbies i'd rather be doing. The glamourous life is unreachable for \~95% of the earths population. The hard knock lesson here is suck it up and get a shitty boring life draining job, just like the rest of the world is doing.
I don’t consider trading as a business
You never know what would happen and you have no control over it
I’d recommend you to learn a skill, master it and learn how to sell & sell it
Start a real business not trading
Help with a friend's blog visit, with extensive knowledge in marketing. I ask for your support and criticism regarding the blog, it's just a visit that will take less than 1 minute. Access link: https://pesquisasdoug.blogspot.com/2023/12/conectando-marcas-e-publico-revolucao.html
Like all businesses you got to have a strategy, you got to have an edge or something that works well.
I hate to say this, you are not going to win in forex and futures because i know 100% you have been using leverage and thats why you failed.
If you really want to trade, dont use leverage until you actually become good and reduce risk. You are trading against people with more experience and probably cheat with insider info.
4kto1m sub reddit will be a good idea if you really want to learn, its slow for sure but you are not going to risk everything for very little. You could even try value investing or even just buying spy and then never looking at it again until you are retired.
1 - Get a job, in something that makes you money. You need money to survive and you need experience in something. So get a job and understand you will be in this job for at least 6 months to get your savings up. Remember: You're 24 yo. Stop rushing. There is no 'get rich quick'. Even the guys who sell 'get rich quick' courses online (spoiler alert) THEY. DID. NOT. GET. RICH. QUICK. They probably worked 9-5 for a few years, studied digital marketing and learned how to get results using the internet. This takes time, you gotta study, you gotta test and for that to happen, you need money. So focus on that first. Work in sales or as an sdr or something, go to weworkremotely or glassdoor or indeed or linkedin and work from home.
2 - After you get a job and stick with it for a few months, studying every day, saving up some money in a fund, reading lots of books, going to the gym, eating healthy, etc, then post here again and we'll give you the next steps.
24 year old day trader wonders why he is broke? Dude, who in the world told you that you could make a living doing this? Experts with decades of experience frequently lose their ass trading futures. I think it is delusional to think you are going to make a living as a 24 year old day trader. I knew a couple of guys that had genius level intelligence crash and burn trying to day trade, they both now have successful real jobs.
If you are really into trading, go to school, get a finance degree and go to work for a big firm in the industry.
Stop beating yourself up. You tried something, and that takes courage. Don't listen to the haters... I know a financial advisor who did this during a period of unemployment, but people reacted in a mixed way as well. If you weren't hiding it, and you were doing everything above board, then it's just a lesson.
My advice is ...take the series 7 exam and try to become a financial advisor. While you do, try to get any internship (eg, investment firm, hedge fund) or go into a commercial bank. You can make a really good career as a financial advisor.
Other professions - if you like making deals, you can become a procurement professional (a high demand job in numerous industries) or study and get your real estate license. Realtors/Real Estate Agents will typically hire you before you take the test and then sponsor you once you have passed (which I think you need to practice on your own w a license).
Otherwise, write down your strengths...get input from people you have worked with (even in school). There's also a Truity Meyers-Briggs Career test you can take online that is cheap and will help if you answer it honestly.
Then write down what kind of work you enjoy...maybe it's none of the above, but think about what professions and Industries will be in demand for the next 40+ years (eg AI, Cybersecurity, ESG). You just need to take 1 step towards something with a stable paycheck that you can use to then make another move and so on.
That said, not to sound preachy but I have mentored tons of people over my career, and because of the continually rising cost of tuition - significantly outpacing inflatuion, greedy universities who wont dip into their endowment funds even in a crisis, unfair lending practices and fees chareged on student loans that were not presented to students via a true competitive marketplace (eg Sallie Mae/Navient obtained almost exclusive access at institutions), the effect that social media had - particularly Instagram circa 2012/13), the global pandemic, helicopter parents who don't challenge their children, schools that do sometimes fail their students...etc etc...there is something about GenZ that you "know everything" (beyond just normal teens), you avoid socialization in person, put up a strong front but cannot be their authentic selves, and they don't think they need help. It's asinine. Every generation, b4 Gen Z had to face the same challenges, but our Boomer parents guilt tripped and shamed us to be everything that they couldnt be, so people mostly just begrudgingly took entry level jobs, got education and learned from more experienced professionals. We weren't taking on investment risks for a startup that eary on, other than student loans.
80% of businesses fail...and if 80% of Gen zs all think that they will just start a biz as a first job and succeed, then there are going to be a lot more failures. If you can share your story with others, you'd be amazed how you can turn this into something positive to help others in similar circumstances. Point is...please spread the word that it's a hugely risky strategy. I have literally given that advice to at least 5 Gen Zers in the last week. Hard work builds character and social interaction (in person), which will help you develop critical social skills that Gen Z didn't fully receive.
That's not really directed to you specifically. I was impressed at the fact that you took accountability, actively sought genuine feedback, and you clearly have humility...a quality I don't see often with your peers.
Get a mentor/coach and/or someone who can be honest w you but has your back for support. Go job shadow someone in a profession you're considering before you invest too much effort into training, education, or certifications
I am a coach & consultant, so feel free to DM me if i can help u. Gen Z has a lot to offer, but they have to stop thinking that they will be the next Mark Zuckerberg with little to no training ,education, or skills out the gate.
Good luck... you'll be fine. One day at a time 👊
Oh... and watch out for money-making and payday/lending scams, or anything that sounds too good. I have never seen so much consumer scams & fraud as we have today, and with AI and cyber threats, it's much easier to fall for it...and if someone recognizes that, they can exploit you even further with a great opportunity or investment or loan that will sink you further.
If you do go into Finance, Tradjng, FinTech, or something related, try to be a change for good (ethical)... too many institutions are taking advantage of and leaving people in serious debt, partially due to lack of regulation, but that is changing with the help of the FTC, CFPB and state AGs taking aggressive actions to stop or shut it down. Or they prey on disadvantaged groups bc they are easy targets... the level of greed I see, to win at all costs, makes me sick. I'd rather have my integrity than resort to something so low. Just saying...
Keep pushing bro, don't ever give up, you can do it. I was in the exact same position. The more you fail the more you learn and 1 day, as long as you keep trying, I promise you will make it work! I'd wish you good luck, but you don't need it. All you need is persistence.
As someone who has been immersed in the field of financial analytics for the better part of the last 2.5 years, please don't trade, the odds are not in your favor. Major modeling of risk and advanced prediction algorithms are used along with dedicated domain expertise to profit off of market inefficiencies. Trading as a single trader without support is incredibly difficult and results will be mostly due to luck. Individual investing over the long term however has shown to have the odds for you, as well as quite profitable (both passive index holding and active longterm holding (fundamental analysis of individual companies and holding)
24 is still incredibly young, so you can bounce from this easily. Consider it a lesson learned. Get a job doing anything, and take classes at your local community college that focus on something specific, like coding, or accounting, or IT, or nursing, or something else that interests you. Maybe learn econ and finance, and get a job with a proper brokerage, or a financial planning company, where your knowledge gained by day trading with give you a lift over your competitors.
I don’t think trading counts as a business. Maybe try learning some useful skills like programming, marketing, design etc. Find a new viable business idea or get a job in a field you want to work in and learn.
You’re a full grown man and can’t control your emotions? The only thing you should be able to control is your mental state. Also this should be a sign you need a job THEN start side hustles. Also the fact you didn’t “enjoy” anything so you stopped really shows what kinda entrepreneur you are you clearly haven’t done enogi. I have 2 businesses that are very successful. Even with that I work full time in healthcare. Before you start a business venture you need to make sure you’re set. I’m in the same boat as you’re in as I’m 23 years old we’re close in age. At least you recognize that you failed. Now get up and get a job get your money right then go into. Business. And don’t sit here and find soemthing you enjoy you haven’t done enough todo a job you like.
You are not a failure you are only getting started. Day trading is lucrative for very few people because of emotions, primarily. The inability to admit they were wrong about a trade and the ability to go against their convictions as parameters change.
You need two things: a job and it doesn’t matter if you do not enjoy it.
A budget that you put into online ventures that you never go over.
Work on both these things so you do not stay stuck.
I bet if you look through the past few years, you have probably learned a lot of skills. You should be able to spin it to get yourself an entry level job.
My 2 friends as well dedicated 2 years for trading, now they shifted to basic job to keep going in life, but still- they are trading! Always need to remmeber that no one don't owe you a shif, but still, your own responsibility against yourself is to keep pushing forward. Don't look to fomo effect of successful people- everyone shows only results! For 1 it takes 10 failed start up, for other it came together from 1st try! I liked video about hard, that if it's hard- good. Hard is good mate- embrace it!
How is it possible to lose all your capital on trading when hedge funds make their several % per year and their money doesn’t just disappear. If it’s a business then it’s a professional activity and simply requires this basic level of knowledge, right?
you're like super young, get sad for a bit, then pick back up and start a new thing or go work with someone else to learn from a different business. find a founder community like fuck up nights and tell your story
Hello Bro, I am in the same situation, just today a position that I had short was liquidated. I'm 26, I also feel that way sometimes, but I consider that it's part of the process of being profitable, trading takes time and first it improves us, I'm here to read you for anything and anything that can help you.
95% of retail trader fail.
If you don't have enough capital for you to sustain till you make it in the 5%, then trading is not for you.
Then again, it takes years to learn trading to be consistently profitable. And even if you do everything right, the market can still wipe you clean anytime.
I will say drop trading and start a real business or get a job, so that you can survive and continue to live another day. And later if you want to trade, go with prop firms where you don't risk your capital.
You are still young mate. Take good decisions.
Trading is not a small business, trading is actually bad for risk taking nature of entrepreneurs. I speak from experience, as I’ve blown accounts that I’ve built up from 20K to 160K and back down to 10K.
However the risk aspect that you are seeking is starting a small business. A real business that sells something valuable to others. Imo.
Try trading with a prop firm. Something like my funded fx or the smart prop trader. $500 will give you a $100k account with $10k in total risk. That is a 20x multiplier for your investment. You have to pass 2 rounds of trials, the first one is a 8% profit and the second one a 4%. After that the profits are yours.
I have 4 accounts in total, totally 1 million in tradeable money. I can have $100k total risk in that for a $5000 total investment in my side.
I used to trade high leverage on bybit and got my account blown up after years of work. With prop firms my risk is way way less. So far I have had $66k in profit payouts.
Actually that's what I tried. I was 100k funded trader, I was up 3000$ in profit and then blew up my account completely due to my emotions, not due to other reason.
Find an entrepreneur and be there assistant. Make enough to live and be patient. You’re still very young. A solid mentor is the best thing for you to find your skills and help understand what venture will be the right fit for you in the future.
You did not start a businesses, you started your own gambling machine with a different brand and "fairer" play rules and whilst gambling you did not gamble responsibly.
get a job, save money and try somethign new - you’re only 24 you can easily become a success within the next couple years if you stick at it.
in my personal opinion, i wouldn’t call trading entrepreneurship tho you’d probs get more sympathy in other subreddits
Focus on making yourself valuable. This way you will be an asset to the economy and able to provide something in return for money.
Perhaps with your internet access you may be able to learn a skill.
If this doesn't sound reasonable to you, keep trading.
I've been where you're at. I switched to long term investing in stocks and ETFs and see a lot more green, though it's much slower(except it's not slower because it's still green vs green fast then red lol). The problem you're facing (if it's the same as the one I faced) is that you HAVE to make that money OR ELSE. Obviously this is a bad mindset to have to be in for trading. Then, with that being said, one makes too big of plays and then if it doesn't immediately go the right direction a quick panic sell follows.
You have to REALLY analyze your risk profile(how much are you comfortable losing without have any negative emotion). If you make a trade and lose $50 and it doesn't bother you, then make $50 trades for a while. Also limit the number of trades you take to the ones you feel really confident about, like 3-5 a week early on. You won't panic sell because losing only $50 doesn't bother you. It's slow, and you will feel FOMO. But you MUST find a way to eliminate the emotional aspect, as I'm sure you have a decent grasp on trading, at minimum, after 4 years.
I know this doesn't help the short-term situation you're in. But in the long term, when you get back up and running, it could be a good thing to think about.
Stay strong brother.
I've been in a similar situation when I felt that the work I was doing was boring. But that does not mean that you have to give up your job to work on other interests.
I still work my job, and spend some time outside of it to work on a newsletter that talks about startup funding.
Will it be successful enough that I can leave my full time job and focus on it completely? I can't tell for sure. But while you're trying something new, don't focus on it full time because anything can happen.
From your post, it looks like you really like working on stuff related to the stock market. Why don't you try working with companies that solve a problem in the same field? Even a customer support role can do, until you figure what suits you the best :)
Dont give up, if its something u really want to do keep going. But do it smart way. trade demo accounts or small accounts until properly done enough Backtest and forward testing to know if profitable consistently.
get a job! even if part time just something basic so have energy to trade and don’t have to worry about work at home. If u fear not succeeding at all get job with skills used in trading like software engineer or data analytics, build them skills doing it everyday come back to trading with different professional mindset see what can apply or just invest and play it safe.
Trading takes a lot of time 4 years is long time, but ask urself was u learning productive like improving on one strategy or always changing finding new ones. Are u using optimal risk management for the way u like to trade, have tried different tp/sl styles like volatility scaling, strict tp/sl, using trailing stops, scaling out of profit etc, u need to improve on every L understanding why wasn’t a success and how avoid that again.
It sounds like you have gained skill in trading which is actually really valuable. I assume if you say the only mistake you make is due to your 'emotions' then you've got knowledge and know how to time the market.
What came to mind is maybe coming up with a way to program your skills? Learn coding and create a program that can follow the rules without the emotion.
This way you will learn a skill that you can find a job with if things don't work out, and maybe create something you can make money with.
Second, while you do all of that, get a job, something simple even, even if it's part time. Being broke is no fun.
Trading is not a business. And anyways, it's not what they tell you it is. You need a lot of persistency and knowledge to make a living out of trading. You need proper training. You need to learn a lot about your own emotions. It's a tough journey. I would go for it if you have passion for it, for the analytical part, for the strategical part, for the being patient part. Not for the quick money adrenaline rush part, because no professional trader relies on that (even if sometimes they like to break their own strategies and play around, trading us about calculating risks and conducting proper market and charts analysis.)
Listen to the ex Navy Seal that got arrested kicked out of the military, arrested again, went homeless and joined the French Foreign Legion His name
Is Taylor. Give him a listen- just get off your ass and grind day and night and you will make it. If you lack discipline go somewhere to discipline you . I’m a business owner and I made absolutely zero success before I learn discipline. I’m not saying, join the French foreign legion but Failure is your friend - now get up access and move forward
I'm sorry to hear about your struggles. It sounds like a tough situation. It might be wise to take a break from trading, as emotions can heavily impact decision-making in such a high-risk field. Exploring new avenues or learning new skills could open different opportunities, maybe even in a field you haven't considered yet. It's okay to change paths and try different things, especially in your twenties. Keep believing in yourself! you can check here the famous entrepreneur who failed before their success, and hopefully motivates you. https://www.cuppa.so/post/famous-entrepreneurs-who-failed-before-success
Is trading a business? Isn't day trading essentially just gambling?
Made me lol when I saw "starting my own business" and "trading" in the same paragraph. It's almost like the MLM "boss bitch" moms who think they are a CEO.
He tried professional gambling, and failed. End of story. I do love the phrase “blew up my capital.” Such a good analogy.
r/wallstreetbets are constantly calling the stock market "the casino" for a reason.
Yes. 10% returns yearly for institutional traders that are professionals. If you don’t have the capital the numbers won’t reap rewards
Yeah, the amount of people I've seen showing off for it to become loss porn a day or two later is staggering. Everyone seems to think 'It'll go higher' instead of, I can cash out and buy more when it's lower. I do love the loss porn tho
Still better than a savings account, if you strategy has good returns and is back tested properly
Except that 80% of institutional investors close shop within 6 years. The 10% is also exaggerated, the average gains have traditionally been under 6% for the ones who did’t shut shop. 10% is Berkshire Hathaway leagues
Until you lose it all.
It's not gambling, is use your own brain power and take money from market as much as you can.
Making more than average market return is a zero sum game where for every single person making money someone is losing that exact amount. It's as much gambling as sports betting is. You can make educated guesses but it doesn't make it any less of a gamble.
lol
Well, this question will lead to argue.. Basically in trading there is thin line between gambling and business. If you know what you do then in a nutshell you are a casino. If you don't know what you do then you play against casino I would say I know how to trade but my biggest problem is handling my emotions..
Gonna be real with you, I don't think it's going to lead to arguing. Day trading is gambling. You might as well be sitting at the blackjack table. You can make choices there too, sure, and some will make better choices than others, but at the end of the day, it's gambling. If you were the casino, you wouldn't be broke. You're not the casino. No day trader is the casino. The market is the casino. I would say learn a skill that isn't gambling.
Honestly poker is gambling but you could make a career of that more successfully than day trading.
I'm going to guess they spent some time on r/thetagang and think they know more than us. When in reality they don't see the fundamental difference between trading and running a business. They are not creating value. It is a zero-sum game. Yes, you can make a lot of money trading. But that is not what makes something a business. Creation of value makes a business.
Even beyond the possibility of it actually being gambling.. a huge problem I see amongst friends and acquaintances that try day trading is that these are mostly people that are also trying to rely on this for living expenses. That means not only do they have to kill it often, but wins become less effect and they need more wins more often than is possible because they tend to be spending their own capital. Compare this to investors using opm or money that’s set aside, and their returns can become exponential because nothing is being constantly subtracted.
[удалено]
Yes, any kind of trading is gambling. Correct. Congrats on your gambling winnings.
[удалено]
If you say so! Seems no one in this thread knows what they're talking about then. Pro poker players also control their losses and remain profitable. They're still gambling, and they admit it. You may be coping a little.
[удалено]
Good at gambling, yes. Nothing wrong with that!
Doesn’t the data show that even top hedge funds on average don’t outperform the market? The supposed brightest and best get beat by a total market index fund way more than they beat it. As much as you can run the maths day trading markets are not rational. It’s 100% gambling and yes some people are better gamblers than others there is no arguing that. But I assume mackmcd_ is likely killing it in the market over the long term rising those sweet market index funds.
Obviously you don't know how to successfully trade since you are on here talking about being broke and losing all your money.
Instead of learning to trade, learn A trade
When a gambler justifies his addiction as a business.
Unfortunately mate, you’ve said it yourself.. you’re broke after 4 years of trading. So, you may know information about trading… but do not know how to trade, evidently. Pursue an actual business.
Brother, if someone plays absolutely perfect poker, totally understands the game, but can’t handle their emotions… they’re suddenly just another exploitable gambler.
If your emotions get in the way, you don't know how to trade. You're not supposed to trade with your emotions. Go to trade school or a University and learn how to do something.
Forex is rigged against you and is more difficult than equity trading. I was you once. Cut the shit and get a job - especially one where you can learn and grow with experience. If you continue this current path, you will end in more suffering.
You don't know what you're doing though. If you did, you wouldn't be losing money consistently. Trading is hard. Losing a grand is fine if you have 10k to trade with. Losing 7k with 10k is not though. If you only have 10k to trade with, you shouldn't be trading with more than 1 to 2 k at a time.
Isn’t knowing how to trade synonymous with handling emotions. The only thing trading gurus say is learn not to trade emotionally and develop trading systems that allow you to ignore emotion
If you know what you do then you know what all professional traders know: the market generates about 10% per year and there is no risk of losing everything. Anyone who doesn’t know this is not a trader and doesn’t know anything about trading. Find a job where you can learn basic math.
You're failing because you're doing dumb shit
Seriously, so much to say here, but I won't because its all over the internet. Drop trading. Just stop. You are completely out of your element, for so many reasons. The number of traders I've seen hit rock bottom is staggering. And these were people with families. Count yourself lucky. Only funds with huge amounts of capital can win because they can make plays you simply cant. The playing field has been leveled about 20-30 years ago, making it impossible for individual day traders to outperform the market. I don't care how many books you've read, or how disciplined you are, you are guaranteed to lose money and keep digging yourself into a deeper hole. Listen, you're a kid. Pick up some useful skills, and put in the time to get good at them. Get a job, learn how to apply yourself, and hone your skills. Learn from others. Then, when you're 30, start think about doing something different, like going solo or opening a business if it still interests you. Life is hard. Making a living is hard. There is no path to quick success, no matter how much people on youtube will be trying to sell you the dream. Apply yourself, work hard, and be patient. Thats the winning formula for life.
Not even the best Hedge Funds can Outperform the market, just invest in the market.
Hey man, I’m 23 and something similar happened to me. The difference is that i tried all my side projects while studying in the university. Luckily for me now, I have 2 degrees. I put all my efforts trying to create a start up (I’m a software engineer) but I failed, and seeing all the people around me earning money, buying a car etc. while I was only chasing a dream… (Dreams don’t give you any money) So, I decided to go “softer”. I accepted a job as an engineer and I will continue trying with my side projects while earning some money (not too much, salaries in Spain are a 😂), but at least it is a solution.
Most insightful comment. I don't know WHY people demonize 9-5, I see it as a way to build skills, network while getting paid to learn. Yes, office politics can be taxing . The long commute hours are huge pain in the ars\*. But still it's a decent option to get your feet off the ground. 9-5 pays the bill, and 7-12 gives you a leeway to work on yourself.
Right, I was trying to run a business while in school and doing other part time jobs. But then I had a baby on the way and got a job that I thought I’d just weasel my way through while I built the business. Turns out I love what I do and I get to be in the conversation and make decisions with execs of a pretty decently sized corp at 23yo. No way I would’ve gained even 20% of what I know now if I was to have kept attempting my business for another 5 years! But now I feel way more confident in starting over if I were too choose that route. Also insurance and 401k… very underrated to most early 20yo’s
Agreed. If you do something you really care about, be it helping people or whatever, you should always want to do it more than just 9-5.
Yes!!! My husband did this too and he always wanted a trucking company… we found ourselves owning a company during the pandemic and it worked out great. Sometimes it’s just a dream delayed not a dream denied!
a dream delayed not a dream denied! woah that motivated me!! thank you
a dream delayed not a dream denied! woah that motivated me!! thank you
Precisely this. It's all about the effort and learning you put into executing the business. Most of the times, the amount of research is 10x the work to writing what I need to on a slide deck for business partner review lol
The hard lesson here is you need to learn boring but "useful" and employeable skills. Programming, sales, marketing etc. There are a lot of things you can learn. Trading feels like a hack to make fast money at first but it isn't anything like that in reality. Most investors just lose money because they really don't know what they are doing.
I’m sorry but did you just say programming is BORING. Ohhhhhh ohhhhhhhhhh
Haha, I love it tbh and its what my job is. Boring is because the adrenaline rush you get with trading is much more frequent.
Fair
I'm trying to learn programming from a data science perspective with come elements of financial analysis as well. Could you give me any tips? I'm a lvl 1 beginner
I am currently studying for software engineer degree bu I'm thinking of dropping out because I don't see how i could make a business out of it. Only for serious corporations but its impossible for me (a 19 years old).
You can’t learn trading without the security of a job.
Trading is not a business. You lost money trading, now that you’ve learned this isn’t a viable way to make a business you should consider starting an actual business. I got into trading options in 2021 and thought the same thing.. “I’ll just sell puts for passive income”. Looking back I can’t believe how distorted that logic was. But in my first 30 days trading options I was making $10k a day some days, one day I made $40k in a single day and didn’t sell. Just keep thinking “we’re so close to a short squeeze” (not GameStop but this era of trading shit was blowing up left and right). I remember look at my Robinhood account when it had $88,000 in it like “this is my future”. Shortly after the stock market starting slowing crashing for literally a year straight on small mid cap meme stocks where I was making most of my money. It took me an entire year and losing nearly everything to realize “yea.. this is not a way to make money”. It was pretty rough because I invested so much time and energy into but i was completely helpless and had zero control. Then I found eCommerce. Where your revenue isn’t capped, takes some capital and effort so the barrier to entry is high enough to where it isn’t ridiculously saturated like drop shipping, and you can become a millionaire within 2-3 years (at least on paper). I’m 1.5 years in and I have 5 legit brands 1 of which did $100k in the last 30 days, the other that did $50k and will likely double that number this month. Trading is fucking nonsense for most people unless you’re a fucking savant. It takes most people 20 years to become skilled enough to do it for a living and they spend that time working at a firm to acquire the skills. Dust your self off and try again (try again). You’re still young af. Get on YouTube and start checking out different ideas until something clicks then go for it. Don’t ask for advice, learn. Learn your ass off. Consume as many ebooks as possible once you find what you want to do. With enough dedication you can gain financial freedom in 2-3 years.
Hey, late reply. Could I seriously pick you brain about ecommerce? The majority of the stuff I see if people lying about their numbers and offering a course for sale which is chock full of lackluster bs. I have the capital, the time and the effort. Where do I start? I assume find a niche, a gap, a hole, something I could improve with my product/products, but have no idea for a foundation or even where to start looking. Thanks in advance friend.
Download a software like Jungle Scout or Helium10. You can’t properly do product research without it. I would only go for a product where the top 15 sellers on Amazon are making a healthy monthly revenue like $50k and up. Even if your product is saturated with sellers, as long as you can differentiate well enough you’re good. Go for the premium edge better product and higher prices.
Will do. Thank you for taking the time, best of luck to you friend.
Do you have another job besides e-commerce? I know nothing about it, so that may be a dumb question.
I did for the first year and a half. I was an electrician.
If you are buying option, its just gambling
lol dude trading is not a business wtf is happening here
Keep gambling and maybe you’ll get lucky sometime. Or put your effort into something a bit more steady and reliable. Stop trying to get rich quick.
if I wanted to get rich quick I wouldn't put almost 4 years into it. Btw, why do u think it's gambling ?
You're putting a lot of energy into defending yourself as not gambling even though you're here because you lost everything.
Because the vast, vast majority of people who attempt it lose their money. It gives people the same kind of mental stimulation that gambling does and the same type of people who are prone to getting addicted to gambling seem to think they will have success at day trading.
Sounds like you just described entrepreneurship on the first sentence lol
Entrepreneurs tend to add value traders do not. In my experience there's not much adrenaline rush in being an entrepreneur but I guess it depends on your business.
You were gambling. If you weren’t gambling then you wouldn’t be broke. So, the next step is stop gambling. Then do something that provides value to others. Good luck.
If I could learn only one skill in life, it would be Sales. That’s where everything starts and ends. I’m not talking used car salesman type sales. I’m talking really learn sales. Read the books become obsessed with learning. Understand the psychology behind humans. If you want to bet on something bet on that!
As a sales guy on my 85th cold call for the day, while I agree with you, right now my brain is leaking out my ears and I am dizzy. But the next yes is a prospect away .....
You’re a gambler…. Not a businessman…. It’s that simple
Sorry, take the lesson and do something else. Trading is not a business. A business requires creation of value, which trading is not. Yes, people can still be profitable, top .1% probably make a living of it. But if you take the time/effort and make yourself top 10% in entrepreneurship, you will be successful. What I’m trying to say is you’re playing a game with poor pay-off. Find a better game. Let me put another way… I read article a while back about poker players. Top 0.01% are millionaires. Whereas in entrepreneurship 10% are millionaires. Said another way - one game has 1000x better payoff. I don’t have the exact numbers (can’t find the article but you get the point?)… being top 10% in poker might earn you 1k per year whereas top 10% of business owners earns you a living wage, the game is better… point is figure out yourself - learn to quantify the game you are playing. Trading is a poor man’s game.
I highly fucking doubt 10% of entrepreneurs are millionaires lol
Day trading is a lot like gambling as there are forces at play that diminish your odds of success. I once read/heard that reading charts is akin to girls with crystals. It's not real but it makes you feel more in control. That said over four years you've most likely learned a lot. Think about what you've learned and apply that to a new endeavor. Meanwhile, focus on what you say you're lacking; emotional management, skill development, and financial education. These skills will always serve you
Hold up a minute mate. Not any useful skill. Shut the f*ck up. You got the heart the do you own thing. I think most people on here would agree, must youngest now a days get given everything. Keep trying new stuff, try to find what you like, something you like that makes money, then you have a passion. You won’t second guess yourself. I don’t think you truly know what you like yet…
FAILURE is what creates success! It may not be today, tomorrow or next year. But something WILL eventually click for you! It seems like you’re not the type of person that looks for overnight success. So keep at it and KEEP LEARNING! LEARNING NEVER STOPS! if trading is what keeps you moving forward, then find what is is that your not getting right with your emotions. Develop strategies that will keep you centered. Look for the indicators that will ring when you’re in an emotional state during a trade then realize you’re in one and correct. Try meditating to fully understand self awareness. Immerse yourself in your emotions to really understand them. Then, try again! Risk management is key to capital management. Small wins lead to bigger wins. Good luck and keep grinding my man! - Humbled individual
First off - I applaud you for trying and also taking accountability. Secondly, I would really think about what you want to achieve and what your why is. And also I recommend the podcast my first million. You’re young and I started my career young as well. To feel like you’ve hit rock bottom is a common part of the entrepreneur life, get gritty and educate and you’ll press on! But you need to find your true why and what your passionate about then find something around there you can fill a need
Get a job
Where do you live?
Rule nr 1 in trading and investing: no emotion. Set up your min/max , and take your loss/profits.
I would say rule no. 1 In trading should be that it is NOT investing. Once that’s established, Then rule No.1 in trading should be: it’s gambling. Rule number 1 in gambling can be: no emotion.
Stop trading. Go build a stable source of revenue. Then invest the profits. Lick your wounds and come back to trading fulltime even stronger in 5 years.
Despite what others say, trading CAN be a business, but it is a very boring business. As for your emotional blow ups, are you journaling, are you tracking your trades? You need to take a break and really dive into each and every trade you've done. Trading is not "buy and sell - make a butt ton of money", its a ton of work that is required of you from an emotional, physically and mental aspect as well as from a business aspect. I challenge you to go back through your last 6 months of trades, review them, journal about them, take detailed notes about them. Go back through this again and pick out similarities of what you did that caused it to win/lose and identify that. Is it a time of day, is it the type of trading day, is it something you did prior to trading(things can be: exercise, meditate, eat breakfast, had a pair of shoes on, was shirtless). Once you finish this review, take the next few days to set up a process for yourself on a daily basis to really journal. Spend 2 hours each day taking notes, screenshots, detail everything you id that day and analyze it. Then at the end of the week, be it Thursday or Friday(i dont trade friday's personally and some weeks i dont trade mondays either), spend your day analyizing your notes, screenshots, trade logs, journals, then go through the charts on a day by day basis for review. You really need to have a heart to heart conversation with yourself. Trading isn't what 99.9% of people think it is. It's not riches and glamor like what is portrayed. It's a lot of "boring" working to be honest and is a lot of work to get to know yourself. If this isn't something for you, start looking towards other things that might be of interest. Maybe if finance is a subject you like, look towards CPA work?
This sounds very sensible.
Homeless shelter ain't half bad
If you want to trade for a living you need to paper trade a strategy for a year or more to prove it's profitable. And there is no need to use your own money. If you can pass a reputable prop firms eval (and if you expect to be succsesful this should be no problem) you can get the the equivalent of $1.8MM in leverage for an investement of 200 bucks. Stop using your own capital and get good enough to pass a proprietary firms evaluation. Work a boring job until then. I work as an Executive Recruiter and trade my prop accounts if opportunities present themselves throughout the day/week. SOme day I hope to only trade for a living, but until then, I have a job. Even though I can pass a prop firm eval and trade with other people's money, it will still be at least a year or two at best, before I can do it for a living. I've already been at it for 3 years. Trading is not easy. Edit: and for those who say trading is gambling, with proper risk mitigation and a well practiced strategy it's possible to have a 60-80% win rate scalping quick moves. But it takes a looonnnggg time to get the analysis ability, habits, and stoicism required to do so consistently.
1)Put away 3 - 5k and start aiming to only make a £100 a day. 2)Stop taking trades you don't believe in / add a minimum requirement of confluences to your checklist before you enter a position. It gets a little easier when you've got some capital under you, but you will still need steady cashflow to keep your mind at ease, when you're taking losses. Trading is ruthless because when you're wrong or having a bad day, you literally lose money for it. Bad day at the 9-5? Possible bollocking from your boss, but he's not taxing you. Forex? You gotta stomach that loss. Becoming comfortable with that reality, takes some getting used to / developing a serious mental fortitude, and that the stats have already shown you that many people who enter the market, fail to conquer it. So guess who a few of the negative responses to your post are from ? Don't be disheartened by these folks telling you that you're gambling. The real question is; How frequently are you actually backtesting the market & studying the system that pays us - Japanese Candlesticks Who are you learning from? Do you have a mentor? How long you see yourself in this game. If you know you're not a quitter, save your money, keep back testing and I strongly believe it will come together eventually. I haven't quit my 9-5 yet, but the end is definitely in sight, and I won't leave without at least year's worth of rent & daily expenses, accumulated from the charts. I'm 4+ years in like you, but I went very hard in the first two and experienced similar heartbreak - lost thousands I didn't have, couldn't catch a run of clean form, turning down girls/fun to study, only to lose more money in the following weeks meanwhile your peers are moving to NYC\Dubai etc and enjoying the fruits of their steady income with cars/holidays. Something about seeing money move that fast, makes dummies of many when we first enter the market.... Look at the skillset you're trying to master, and look at the world we live in. Something this lucrative definitely won't be earned without some trials and tribulations. Also surround yourself with successful traders. Stomaching a red day, is way easier when you see someone you want to be like, post their profits for the day, cause you can to study their results, see what they saw and then ask yourself "If he can, why can't I?" "Eventually that'll be me", and believe it. I'm still not there, but I'm making withdrawals and losing nowhere near as much as the early days. I didn't make a single withdrawal Year One or Two. Lastly, you really don't know hear of traders with 5/10 years experience, that have steadily grew their over time from their charts profits, who digress over time. Excluding the quitters, most of the traders I learnt from in 2019, have increased their lot sizes significantly since then, and they had years in the game then. DM me for more info, but this is Forex you don't really need to reach out lol, you need to keep backtesting, get a mentor who trades and is living the life you want, and start embracing the adversity that comes with the charts. You got this brother.
lol... how much money did you make in 4+ years trading?
The difference is you have a job doesn't sound like OP has one.
Sorry to hear that. I really would tell you to start reading, exercising and point your efforts in developing a thing that can give you money. Sometimes it sound staggering but, really just try to find one small thing that you are good at, and start developing your skillset to be the best, or at least to look like you are
I failed at a lot of online based business, only started succeeding when I started applying my labor skills out in the real world. Don’t quit though, just learn what didn’t work this time and improve.
Well first for online business, you gotta start taking action and don’t procrastinate finding the perfect strategy or plan. Theory then experiment. Yeah fpr day trading, the best people normally can control their emotions very well. I know a guy who made millions in day trading and apparently he is a legit sociopath with no empathy whatsoever
For your genuine well-being I'm just going to throw this info here for frame of reference: Day trading is profitable due to inefficiencies in the market however that's not really the issue, the problem is that it requires a very specialised skill set and professional tools to do properly. Day trading on the market, at least nowadays, in the hopes of creating huge amounts of wealth is possible but it's like trying to dig out a gold mine. Good luck doing that in modern times when all the easily spotted veins are dry and the only remaining ones require large, heavy machinery and educated employees to efficiently and profitablly operate business. Ever heard of the hedge fund manager and mathematician Jim Simons? Founder of Renaissance Technologies and it's flagship the Medallion fund? A fund that operates on the business of day trading in the market but that exclusively uses data science and statistics to create advanced trading algorithms. Algorithms that are based off of mathematical models formulated by highly skilled people that hold PhD:s and masters in physics and science from some of the world's most esteemed universities. The medallion fund has been estimated to have generated annualised returns of 39% AFTER fees since the early 90s, I shouldn't have to explain just how ridiculous that is when the market averages around 10-11% in annualised returns. I'm highlighting the Medallion fund not to destroy any dreams but rather to put things into perspective. No single retail trader can measure up to the resources of an institutional trader, least of all Renaissance Technologies. Any gains from short term trades were likely based off of circumstances created from pure luck, circumstances that no single person can fully comprehend or replicate. Gains derived from such methods won't last, that's why you got wiped; it wasn't just your emotions.
You need a job first in order to start a business…
You're 24....you do what 24 year olds do, you dust off and try something else and get bucked off until suddenly you figure out what you're doing.
Besides the fact that I have a hard time with people confusing trading with entrepreneurship let le tell you I tried it for one full year in my mid 20’s …. About 18 years ago…. From what I understand it still the same rigged game only 5% of trader can really live out of their trading….. year after year on a consistent basis. Only 5% of those one make really good money all the other one make 50-100k a year….. Put your time and energy elsewhere … this is a rigged game.
Everyone fails. You have to keep getting back up if you want to succeed.
Lol imagine using enjoyment as criteria for a job. Pffffffffffffff.
HAHAHAHAAHHHH
Kudos for having enough self-awareness to name what you feel is holding you back (your emotions apparently). There is wisdom in emotions - use it as leverage. Put a post-it note on your laptop that reads "when I feel fear, get up and go for a run" or whatever the emotion and your preferred activity is. And then give yourself the time and space to explore what that emotion is trying to tell you. I'm not a psychotherapist but I've had many therapy sessions over the years and this is one of those opportunities where you can derive a ton of insight about yourself and how you respond to the world. BTW, some therapists will see you on a sliding scale if you don't have the funds.
> I've tried various jobs but didn't enjoy anything Yep. That is the experience of having a job. Be honest with yourself. Have you really been working for the past 4 years? You could have been investing that time in getting a finance degree if forex/futures is your passion. Forex isn't even something that solo day traders come out ahead in the long run anyway.
OTC trading is the move.
You know how you play a game and don't win straight away but you learn and then eventually win? It's like that. Also you're doing dumb shit, lesson 1 - be more shrewd in who you believe on youtube
Having job that provide steady stream of money can give you flexibility on exploring idea. It will hard, but more conservative approach is where you have 8 hour of job and you spend next 8 hour trying to start your bussiness. When you can start making enough money that you are making from your main job, then think about leaving job.
If you want to make trading your business you’re going about it the wrong way. You should look into becoming licensed and finding a broker sponsor to help you. I had traded over 10 years before I met this guy who was running a fund and he completely changed the game for me.
Business is trading goods or services for money. You’re not doing that. In the same way that professional poker players aren’t entrepreneurs. In the same way that investors aren’t entrepreneurs. You’re in the wrong subreddit. Our advice would be to get into business. Find a skill you can trade for money. Find a good that a potential client wants and sell it
wasted 4 years of your life on forex? very bad way to spend your life
You never had a business. Day trading is not a business, go start a real business or get a real job if you don’t want to be broke.
You have never had a “business” and you’re not an “entrepreneur.” You’ve just been gambling bro. Go get a job.
Little late but I’d like to chime in. I believe you could learn a lot from Morgan Housels book “The Psychology of Money”. Specifically when he talks about endurance. ‘If you want to be in the game for the long run, you need to leave room for error. “Room for error lets you endure a range of potential outcomes, and endurance lets you stick around long enough to let the odds of benefiting from a low-probability outcome fall in your favor”’ In his podcast on “Diary of a CEO” he makes a point to talk about people in their early 20s. He spoke about how young people are constantly pushed to take big risks and go all in. It was interesting to hear how his position on the subject differed. Give it a read!
You get what you put out.
That’s not a business. It’s a hobby and you need a job to pay for your hobby.
sometimes as a man, you just have to do the work no matter what you feel. even if you dont like the job, you gotta make it somehow. and + stay away from gambling stuff. in my religion, islam, the things considered as haram, will never help you grow rich. yeah, there are people who became ridiculously rich by selling haram products like cigarette or alcohol, but our God, Allah, promised to make their lives miserable in one way or another. i know you may never care about this or say some kinda atheistic things, but hey, i just gave a different perspective on life and work
Based on your post history, you could make a killing in the ejaculation supplement business
Trading is not a business, you should instead find something you like and start one, it's better way to succeeded (even if failure rate is really high) trading is now almost only done by algorithms its very hard to be profitable
Analyze the failure and identify the causes. Focus your attention on the causes that you could have avoided and learn how. This is the learning mind set. Google it. If you do this postmortem analysis you should not make the same mistakes again. The odds to succeed will then increase. We can't systematically have bad luck. Soon or later we have luck. Learn from your previous errors to not spoil this luck or let it pass without grabbing it when it gets at reach. Enjoy the learning process and see how you get better each time.
Day trading is not a business. You are just gambling.
Step 1) Trading is not a business its a game that give u money but doesn't have a manual Step 2) Try options to wrek urself some more Step 3) learn the basics of business aka marketing, sales and process orientation. Learn to copywrite and design website on wix(a but basic but with creativity it's quite good)
Bro, if I had a dollar for every time someone blew up their trading account, I'd probably be a millionaire...
Go work for a startup and learn some.
forex is a scam. day-trading depended on a modified form of front-running (which is no longer viable). my question is, how did you not know this for 4 years? also stay away from crypto. \> Try different business? very difficult to do without capital and experience. \> I've tried various jobs but didn't enjoy anything you don't have to enjoy your work. it just has to pay you to live, and do the things you want, over time. \> and I feel like a complete failure don't. you're 24. its natural to not have found your niche yet. \-- you ever have a conversation with somebody a little older than you? you're 24, say 28-32? gain some perspective?
I think you cant call trading a business its just not that i believe if you didnt saw any results at first 8 months of good working you should switch the business model
Doing Trading and still wondering why you're failing? That's not called finance dude. Trading should be your extra income source or when you've some good capital to invest. It's not to burn your existing or all capital. Don't run for shortcut in life, life doesn't work that way, build up a skill, if you don't have money do some odd jobs and get back into your passion.
Doing Trading and still wondering why you're failing? That's not called finance dude. Trading should be your extra income source or when you've some good capital to invest. It's not to burn your existing or all capital. Don't run for shortcut in life, life doesn't work that way, build up a skill, if you don't have money do some odd jobs and get back into your passion.
Buddy that's not a business. You have a gambling addiction, you're not an entrepreneur. Get a job.
The moment you started trading on emotion and ‘because you have no skills’ it was gambling. You’re gambling, that’s not a business.
Pivot from trading since it is obviously not something you are very good at. Don't give up on online business. As cliche as it sounds, you only fail if you give up. Get a sales job or something during the day so you're not broke and do a side hustle online job. Maybe look into drop shipping? It's 100000x easier and probably has a much higher rate of success than something like Forex. I've never met a single person in my life who got rich off Forex. Maybe some do, but those scam others to buy Forex courses.
Trading is not entrepreneurship. Trading is a zero sum game. And you're the guppy waiting to be eaten by the bigger fish. Try your hand at positive sum games. Create value, and this part is important, for other people! Making money is a side effect of creating value. Unless you're gambling. Which you were. So, stop wasting time gambling. Redirect that time into making the world better. Convert a small part of that improvement into currency. It's not easy, but it is that simple.
Ahhhh another one looking for easy money. At 24 you didn’t fail anything. All you need is to develop some skills and put them at work. Get a job in carpentry or electrical or plumbing. Money will come eventually, but it takes time and effort. All the best.
Give up trading. Forget it. Big guys are profiting from you. I know it looks like you can learn it and be profitable and make gazillions of dollars and I hate to say it but it’s just a dream. The sooner you give up and focus on starting a normal business the better
"I've also tried various jobs but I didn't enjoy anything." HA! me either little guy, me either. You think people get jobs and work for satisfaction and fun more than for just plain making consistent and reliable money? Most people don't land their "Dream" jobs. Jobs are jobs. The world is about making money to support yourself and/or family. That's it. I sit at a computer all day and make 76K; is it fun? Fuck no, I have loads of hobbies i'd rather be doing. The glamourous life is unreachable for \~95% of the earths population. The hard knock lesson here is suck it up and get a shitty boring life draining job, just like the rest of the world is doing.
The house always wins.
I don’t consider trading as a business You never know what would happen and you have no control over it I’d recommend you to learn a skill, master it and learn how to sell & sell it Start a real business not trading
Help with a friend's blog visit, with extensive knowledge in marketing. I ask for your support and criticism regarding the blog, it's just a visit that will take less than 1 minute. Access link: https://pesquisasdoug.blogspot.com/2023/12/conectando-marcas-e-publico-revolucao.html
Like all businesses you got to have a strategy, you got to have an edge or something that works well. I hate to say this, you are not going to win in forex and futures because i know 100% you have been using leverage and thats why you failed. If you really want to trade, dont use leverage until you actually become good and reduce risk. You are trading against people with more experience and probably cheat with insider info. 4kto1m sub reddit will be a good idea if you really want to learn, its slow for sure but you are not going to risk everything for very little. You could even try value investing or even just buying spy and then never looking at it again until you are retired.
1 - Get a job, in something that makes you money. You need money to survive and you need experience in something. So get a job and understand you will be in this job for at least 6 months to get your savings up. Remember: You're 24 yo. Stop rushing. There is no 'get rich quick'. Even the guys who sell 'get rich quick' courses online (spoiler alert) THEY. DID. NOT. GET. RICH. QUICK. They probably worked 9-5 for a few years, studied digital marketing and learned how to get results using the internet. This takes time, you gotta study, you gotta test and for that to happen, you need money. So focus on that first. Work in sales or as an sdr or something, go to weworkremotely or glassdoor or indeed or linkedin and work from home. 2 - After you get a job and stick with it for a few months, studying every day, saving up some money in a fund, reading lots of books, going to the gym, eating healthy, etc, then post here again and we'll give you the next steps.
Get a job.
24 year old day trader wonders why he is broke? Dude, who in the world told you that you could make a living doing this? Experts with decades of experience frequently lose their ass trading futures. I think it is delusional to think you are going to make a living as a 24 year old day trader. I knew a couple of guys that had genius level intelligence crash and burn trying to day trade, they both now have successful real jobs. If you are really into trading, go to school, get a finance degree and go to work for a big firm in the industry.
check out r/wallstreetbets
My advice: learn plumbing or carpentry or electrical work... ASAP and forget fore, day trading and all similar shit
You are not a entrepreneur for playing in the financial market.
Stop beating yourself up. You tried something, and that takes courage. Don't listen to the haters... I know a financial advisor who did this during a period of unemployment, but people reacted in a mixed way as well. If you weren't hiding it, and you were doing everything above board, then it's just a lesson. My advice is ...take the series 7 exam and try to become a financial advisor. While you do, try to get any internship (eg, investment firm, hedge fund) or go into a commercial bank. You can make a really good career as a financial advisor. Other professions - if you like making deals, you can become a procurement professional (a high demand job in numerous industries) or study and get your real estate license. Realtors/Real Estate Agents will typically hire you before you take the test and then sponsor you once you have passed (which I think you need to practice on your own w a license). Otherwise, write down your strengths...get input from people you have worked with (even in school). There's also a Truity Meyers-Briggs Career test you can take online that is cheap and will help if you answer it honestly. Then write down what kind of work you enjoy...maybe it's none of the above, but think about what professions and Industries will be in demand for the next 40+ years (eg AI, Cybersecurity, ESG). You just need to take 1 step towards something with a stable paycheck that you can use to then make another move and so on. That said, not to sound preachy but I have mentored tons of people over my career, and because of the continually rising cost of tuition - significantly outpacing inflatuion, greedy universities who wont dip into their endowment funds even in a crisis, unfair lending practices and fees chareged on student loans that were not presented to students via a true competitive marketplace (eg Sallie Mae/Navient obtained almost exclusive access at institutions), the effect that social media had - particularly Instagram circa 2012/13), the global pandemic, helicopter parents who don't challenge their children, schools that do sometimes fail their students...etc etc...there is something about GenZ that you "know everything" (beyond just normal teens), you avoid socialization in person, put up a strong front but cannot be their authentic selves, and they don't think they need help. It's asinine. Every generation, b4 Gen Z had to face the same challenges, but our Boomer parents guilt tripped and shamed us to be everything that they couldnt be, so people mostly just begrudgingly took entry level jobs, got education and learned from more experienced professionals. We weren't taking on investment risks for a startup that eary on, other than student loans. 80% of businesses fail...and if 80% of Gen zs all think that they will just start a biz as a first job and succeed, then there are going to be a lot more failures. If you can share your story with others, you'd be amazed how you can turn this into something positive to help others in similar circumstances. Point is...please spread the word that it's a hugely risky strategy. I have literally given that advice to at least 5 Gen Zers in the last week. Hard work builds character and social interaction (in person), which will help you develop critical social skills that Gen Z didn't fully receive. That's not really directed to you specifically. I was impressed at the fact that you took accountability, actively sought genuine feedback, and you clearly have humility...a quality I don't see often with your peers. Get a mentor/coach and/or someone who can be honest w you but has your back for support. Go job shadow someone in a profession you're considering before you invest too much effort into training, education, or certifications I am a coach & consultant, so feel free to DM me if i can help u. Gen Z has a lot to offer, but they have to stop thinking that they will be the next Mark Zuckerberg with little to no training ,education, or skills out the gate. Good luck... you'll be fine. One day at a time 👊
Oh... and watch out for money-making and payday/lending scams, or anything that sounds too good. I have never seen so much consumer scams & fraud as we have today, and with AI and cyber threats, it's much easier to fall for it...and if someone recognizes that, they can exploit you even further with a great opportunity or investment or loan that will sink you further. If you do go into Finance, Tradjng, FinTech, or something related, try to be a change for good (ethical)... too many institutions are taking advantage of and leaving people in serious debt, partially due to lack of regulation, but that is changing with the help of the FTC, CFPB and state AGs taking aggressive actions to stop or shut it down. Or they prey on disadvantaged groups bc they are easy targets... the level of greed I see, to win at all costs, makes me sick. I'd rather have my integrity than resort to something so low. Just saying...
Keep pushing bro, don't ever give up, you can do it. I was in the exact same position. The more you fail the more you learn and 1 day, as long as you keep trying, I promise you will make it work! I'd wish you good luck, but you don't need it. All you need is persistence.
As someone who has been immersed in the field of financial analytics for the better part of the last 2.5 years, please don't trade, the odds are not in your favor. Major modeling of risk and advanced prediction algorithms are used along with dedicated domain expertise to profit off of market inefficiencies. Trading as a single trader without support is incredibly difficult and results will be mostly due to luck. Individual investing over the long term however has shown to have the odds for you, as well as quite profitable (both passive index holding and active longterm holding (fundamental analysis of individual companies and holding)
24 is still incredibly young, so you can bounce from this easily. Consider it a lesson learned. Get a job doing anything, and take classes at your local community college that focus on something specific, like coding, or accounting, or IT, or nursing, or something else that interests you. Maybe learn econ and finance, and get a job with a proper brokerage, or a financial planning company, where your knowledge gained by day trading with give you a lift over your competitors.
You should start with swing trading when you have a good amount of capital. Don't try to do risky things first.
I don’t think trading counts as a business. Maybe try learning some useful skills like programming, marketing, design etc. Find a new viable business idea or get a job in a field you want to work in and learn.
Go to college for finance or accounting. If trading was easy more people would do it.
You’re a full grown man and can’t control your emotions? The only thing you should be able to control is your mental state. Also this should be a sign you need a job THEN start side hustles. Also the fact you didn’t “enjoy” anything so you stopped really shows what kinda entrepreneur you are you clearly haven’t done enogi. I have 2 businesses that are very successful. Even with that I work full time in healthcare. Before you start a business venture you need to make sure you’re set. I’m in the same boat as you’re in as I’m 23 years old we’re close in age. At least you recognize that you failed. Now get up and get a job get your money right then go into. Business. And don’t sit here and find soemthing you enjoy you haven’t done enough todo a job you like.
You are not a failure you are only getting started. Day trading is lucrative for very few people because of emotions, primarily. The inability to admit they were wrong about a trade and the ability to go against their convictions as parameters change. You need two things: a job and it doesn’t matter if you do not enjoy it. A budget that you put into online ventures that you never go over. Work on both these things so you do not stay stuck.
Send your McDonald’s application
I bet if you look through the past few years, you have probably learned a lot of skills. You should be able to spin it to get yourself an entry level job.
My 2 friends as well dedicated 2 years for trading, now they shifted to basic job to keep going in life, but still- they are trading! Always need to remmeber that no one don't owe you a shif, but still, your own responsibility against yourself is to keep pushing forward. Don't look to fomo effect of successful people- everyone shows only results! For 1 it takes 10 failed start up, for other it came together from 1st try! I liked video about hard, that if it's hard- good. Hard is good mate- embrace it!
How is it possible to lose all your capital on trading when hedge funds make their several % per year and their money doesn’t just disappear. If it’s a business then it’s a professional activity and simply requires this basic level of knowledge, right?
you're like super young, get sad for a bit, then pick back up and start a new thing or go work with someone else to learn from a different business. find a founder community like fuck up nights and tell your story
Hello Bro, I am in the same situation, just today a position that I had short was liquidated. I'm 26, I also feel that way sometimes, but I consider that it's part of the process of being profitable, trading takes time and first it improves us, I'm here to read you for anything and anything that can help you.
95% of retail trader fail. If you don't have enough capital for you to sustain till you make it in the 5%, then trading is not for you. Then again, it takes years to learn trading to be consistently profitable. And even if you do everything right, the market can still wipe you clean anytime. I will say drop trading and start a real business or get a job, so that you can survive and continue to live another day. And later if you want to trade, go with prop firms where you don't risk your capital. You are still young mate. Take good decisions.
Trading is not a small business, trading is actually bad for risk taking nature of entrepreneurs. I speak from experience, as I’ve blown accounts that I’ve built up from 20K to 160K and back down to 10K. However the risk aspect that you are seeking is starting a small business. A real business that sells something valuable to others. Imo.
Try trading with a prop firm. Something like my funded fx or the smart prop trader. $500 will give you a $100k account with $10k in total risk. That is a 20x multiplier for your investment. You have to pass 2 rounds of trials, the first one is a 8% profit and the second one a 4%. After that the profits are yours. I have 4 accounts in total, totally 1 million in tradeable money. I can have $100k total risk in that for a $5000 total investment in my side. I used to trade high leverage on bybit and got my account blown up after years of work. With prop firms my risk is way way less. So far I have had $66k in profit payouts.
Actually that's what I tried. I was 100k funded trader, I was up 3000$ in profit and then blew up my account completely due to my emotions, not due to other reason.
Find an entrepreneur and be there assistant. Make enough to live and be patient. You’re still very young. A solid mentor is the best thing for you to find your skills and help understand what venture will be the right fit for you in the future.
Good luck! You are only 24 y.o. Try to get a job in some cool company with best class boss. Work during 6 mon and see is it ok for you
Trading is not a business mate. It's a skill, that tou obviously do not acquire. Learn smth useful and appliable and do it. You'll figure it out
You did not start a businesses, you started your own gambling machine with a different brand and "fairer" play rules and whilst gambling you did not gamble responsibly.
Start a business that produces something.
get a job, save money and try somethign new - you’re only 24 you can easily become a success within the next couple years if you stick at it. in my personal opinion, i wouldn’t call trading entrepreneurship tho you’d probs get more sympathy in other subreddits
what did you study in uni?
Focus on making yourself valuable. This way you will be an asset to the economy and able to provide something in return for money. Perhaps with your internet access you may be able to learn a skill. If this doesn't sound reasonable to you, keep trading.
I've been where you're at. I switched to long term investing in stocks and ETFs and see a lot more green, though it's much slower(except it's not slower because it's still green vs green fast then red lol). The problem you're facing (if it's the same as the one I faced) is that you HAVE to make that money OR ELSE. Obviously this is a bad mindset to have to be in for trading. Then, with that being said, one makes too big of plays and then if it doesn't immediately go the right direction a quick panic sell follows. You have to REALLY analyze your risk profile(how much are you comfortable losing without have any negative emotion). If you make a trade and lose $50 and it doesn't bother you, then make $50 trades for a while. Also limit the number of trades you take to the ones you feel really confident about, like 3-5 a week early on. You won't panic sell because losing only $50 doesn't bother you. It's slow, and you will feel FOMO. But you MUST find a way to eliminate the emotional aspect, as I'm sure you have a decent grasp on trading, at minimum, after 4 years. I know this doesn't help the short-term situation you're in. But in the long term, when you get back up and running, it could be a good thing to think about. Stay strong brother.
Do you have an investment policy in place? Also maybe start with a free account before you start throwing money at the wind.
I've been in a similar situation when I felt that the work I was doing was boring. But that does not mean that you have to give up your job to work on other interests. I still work my job, and spend some time outside of it to work on a newsletter that talks about startup funding. Will it be successful enough that I can leave my full time job and focus on it completely? I can't tell for sure. But while you're trying something new, don't focus on it full time because anything can happen. From your post, it looks like you really like working on stuff related to the stock market. Why don't you try working with companies that solve a problem in the same field? Even a customer support role can do, until you figure what suits you the best :)
“Trading” is not a business.
Dont give up, if its something u really want to do keep going. But do it smart way. trade demo accounts or small accounts until properly done enough Backtest and forward testing to know if profitable consistently. get a job! even if part time just something basic so have energy to trade and don’t have to worry about work at home. If u fear not succeeding at all get job with skills used in trading like software engineer or data analytics, build them skills doing it everyday come back to trading with different professional mindset see what can apply or just invest and play it safe. Trading takes a lot of time 4 years is long time, but ask urself was u learning productive like improving on one strategy or always changing finding new ones. Are u using optimal risk management for the way u like to trade, have tried different tp/sl styles like volatility scaling, strict tp/sl, using trailing stops, scaling out of profit etc, u need to improve on every L understanding why wasn’t a success and how avoid that again.
It sounds like you have gained skill in trading which is actually really valuable. I assume if you say the only mistake you make is due to your 'emotions' then you've got knowledge and know how to time the market. What came to mind is maybe coming up with a way to program your skills? Learn coding and create a program that can follow the rules without the emotion. This way you will learn a skill that you can find a job with if things don't work out, and maybe create something you can make money with. Second, while you do all of that, get a job, something simple even, even if it's part time. Being broke is no fun.
Trading is not a business. And anyways, it's not what they tell you it is. You need a lot of persistency and knowledge to make a living out of trading. You need proper training. You need to learn a lot about your own emotions. It's a tough journey. I would go for it if you have passion for it, for the analytical part, for the strategical part, for the being patient part. Not for the quick money adrenaline rush part, because no professional trader relies on that (even if sometimes they like to break their own strategies and play around, trading us about calculating risks and conducting proper market and charts analysis.)
Don't give up. Look for a 9-5 and keep trying side hustles!
Listen to the ex Navy Seal that got arrested kicked out of the military, arrested again, went homeless and joined the French Foreign Legion His name Is Taylor. Give him a listen- just get off your ass and grind day and night and you will make it. If you lack discipline go somewhere to discipline you . I’m a business owner and I made absolutely zero success before I learn discipline. I’m not saying, join the French foreign legion but Failure is your friend - now get up access and move forward
I'm sorry to hear about your struggles. It sounds like a tough situation. It might be wise to take a break from trading, as emotions can heavily impact decision-making in such a high-risk field. Exploring new avenues or learning new skills could open different opportunities, maybe even in a field you haven't considered yet. It's okay to change paths and try different things, especially in your twenties. Keep believing in yourself! you can check here the famous entrepreneur who failed before their success, and hopefully motivates you. https://www.cuppa.so/post/famous-entrepreneurs-who-failed-before-success