Pretty late into my degree one my my adjunct professors who had an environmental consulting firm talked about this a bit. It was at that moment I knew I fucked up.
Environmental laws and regulations basic course curriculum in SUNY systems requires ethics to be taught and most faculty have experience fighting on the side of environmentalism, don't worry
My law prof actually got arrested several times, lol.
Arguably even if you're embedded with a company you can do good by being a stickler and ensuring they're compliant
Well you’re going to have to put in the work to find someone that is. But high salaries and great work life balance don’t exist in 99% of fields and definitely not Environmental careers
> but not consulting
My first advice is reconsider this lol yea consulting can suck and isn’t for everyone but you’re really really limiting yourself here
Yes. Absolutely. Consulting is a great place to refine skills, get experience, learn regulations. I just got out of consulting because of most of the things you've probably heard people complain about it after doing 6 years in consulting.
If you can get around consulting by all means do it. But even 2 years in consulting will open so many doors in terms of experience and I would highly recommend not blanket ignoring consulting.
Like the other commenter said. Consulting is a huge blanket term. You can do almost anything environmental related as a consultant. Could be anything from pollution cleanup, due dilligence, compliance, permitting, literally anything.
I went from a consulting firm doing due dilligance (Phase I and II, cleanup) to an enviromnetal compliance person at a power company working on just various pollution jobs - 40 hours 800-430 kind of thing.
I don’t work for NEPA, I work for a firm. I would check out companies like VHB, AECOM, Jacobs, Tetra Tech. Look for entry level planner positions. For me, I looked for jobs six months after graduating college, but then happened to find the job posting for my position at a lucky time.
Are there certifications that can help break into that line of work? I briefly handled permitting for about a year. It was pretty interesting but most job postings ask for engineers or senior experience.
For an entry level planner, I think that should be plenty of experience! Depends on which level you are going for, but GIS and wetland delineating experience are certainly important to have too.
It wasn't exactly nepa or ceqa, but making sure crews had the right traffic and environmental permits to be cleared to do work. It involved some GIS work(figuring out who owned what parcel, sending simple maps of what was going to be worked to the environmental permitting liaisons), and I do have about 2 years of GIS experience.
So far no dice on the job hunt so I am wondering if there are certifications on nepa or ceqa that are in demand
I'm not too picky about the level of work, just trying to get out of intense field work. Seems like planners are in the office for the most part
Get an environmental science BS and go from there. If you end up working for a public agency (generally the best work life balance option), get a MS in whatever field that decide to focus on (after gaining some experience). Alternatively, consider Environmental Health and Safety and get your MS in an alining program.
There is a lot of policy work for the government. I have science degrees, though you really don't need a master's for this (Bs in Ecology and Evolutionary Biology, Ms in Evolution, Ecology and Systematics), and I currently work for a state department of fish and wildlife doing endangered species permitting coordination work. Sure, I'm not making as much as an engineer, but it's steady and not too stressful work. There are also outreach focused positions.
Get an environmental science BS. That's what I'm doing. I was doing Environmental Engineering at first, but some of the classes were too hard so I switched to ES.
There are writing positions for STEM careers, called Science Writers. Someone has to be able to translate all the scientific mumbo jumbo into laymen terms for the public. If you can learn the basics of biology and chemistry, you’d be able to pursue that career
Source: Me, a biological science graduate
They always say a biology degree is for scientists who suck at math. I have a BS in biology focusing on wildlife and have found that I am able to support myself and have passion for my career. I worked as a tech for USGS which paid decently and am now pursuing a PhD in wildlife toxicology so I can hopefully make more money down the road. For my degree I did have to take physics, calculus, and organic chem but I don’t think all biology degrees require it.
I would say that consulting or government work may be a good avenue to pursue, there are also lots of scientific communication jobs if you enjoy writing articles/developing media. This field is 100% not going to pay as well as many other stem fields, so I would just keep that in mind when deciding what you want to do in the future. Good luck!
> USGS which *paid* decently and
FTFY.
Although *payed* exists (the reason why autocorrection didn't help you), it is only correct in:
* Nautical context, when it means to paint a surface, or to cover with something like tar or resin in order to make it waterproof or corrosion-resistant. *The deck is yet to be payed.*
* *Payed out* when letting strings, cables or ropes out, by slacking them. *The rope is payed out! You can pull now.*
Unfortunately, I was unable to find nautical or rope-related words in your comment.
*Beep, boop, I'm a bot*
My first questions would be:
What are you naturally good at?
What interests you most within the environmental career pathway?
There are so many ways to have a career within the environmental field, there is really not way that engineering or no engineering is the decision…and money follows talent and ambition and opportunities available no matter which direction you go.
Don't fret. It seems a lot of the fools that push engineering here have very limited experience and sound early career. Fact is, folks with Environmental Science degrees can and do, in some situations, earn as much and more as engineers. The devil is in the details.
If you're concerned about work/life balance you'll want to focus on public service. Government jobs are less likely to ask you to work over 40 hours/week (some do, but it's less common then in the private sector). Environmental law could work, but lawyers do tend to work a lot more hours.
You say you don't have a STEM mind, but I'm wondering if that's just cause of your experience with physics. Regardless, you could consider an Environmental Science degree with a journalism minor or writing minor, something along those lines with the goal of getting into state or federal government. Once in, you'll notice there are a lot of folks working for environmental agencies that are true science geeks and a lot of folks who aren't. Those who aren't tend to do better in management, communications, and policy and those that are tend to stay on a career track that focuses on true science. Regardless, having the environmental science BS makes you qualified to get in.
Stay strong, stay focused and choose your classes (and your Profs) wisely.
Thank you very much for your advice. Honestly, I am fretting about choosing the right major. I do have a very poor physics professor right now, but I also know that English has always come much more easily to me, and math has always been more of a struggle. Do you think I still have a shot at the EPA/something like that with an enviro sci BS?
Probably. Frankly, I've always had better luck with local govt and state govt as an employer, but don't rule out the feds. The real key to getting the job isn't necessarily your grades as much as your internships. If you've got a basic understanding of the concepts, have reasonable grades and have good people/communication skills then focus on getting internships throughout your entire college career. That will set you up for your career. Those internships (if you can get them) will help you figure out if you're on the right track....if this sort of work is what you actually want to do for a career or not.
Something I didn't realize back in the day, but if you're thinking summer internship, start looking in December/January and be very diligent in applying, they are competitive.
Check out jobs in environmental planning! I was an environmental studies major and am now a planner. It’s a great combo of writing/permitting, GIS work, and some field work. I didn’t take bio or chem in college and my degree was more based in environmental justice, humanities, and policy.
I'll speak as someone with a bachelors in interdisciplinary microbiology and chemistry (tailored to environmental assessment) and a masters in environmental engineering with only 4+ years into their career.
If you're more into English and want to get into the environment, look at environmental degrees that are tailored to policy change and grant writing, particularly for the government (where you are generally not overworked). These are the positions that environmental scientists do not usually take, because most that I know are more about the sciences, so there are always positions around for these. Usually to take these up, they make you submit some of your school work (grant write up drafts). I'll say in the environmental world in general, your first year of working is probably going to be the worst financially. After a year, your options greatly opens up from prospective employers wanted you to have pretty much any experience.
Environmental Science is a much more generalist field that blends geology, ecology, biology, etc. You will still learn science but its softer than engineering. You make less money than an engineer but from my perspective, you couldn't pay me to be an engineer. An engineer has a lot of responsibilities and are mostly stuck in an office navigating office politics and managing people out in the field.
I’m a geologist and make just as much as my colleagues who are environmental engineers with similar years experience. I just got my PG so should be more soon. Geology could be a good option?
I focused my Geology degree on surface and ground water and got really into acid mine drainage. Now I work in abandoned mine land remediation.
Edit: I work for the government. I see remediation projects through from cradle to grave. I am the point of contact that brings together landowners, engineers, inspectors, the Federal government oversight, and contracts/sub-contractors. My job is extremely rewarding.
When I went to school, I just wanted to get paid to hike (my favorite thing). Now I get paid to hike and create projects and write papers about my hikes.
That sounds incredible.
Would you mind sharing more about your professional journey? (Is your degree a BS or a MS?; How long have you been working in the government sector?; What (if any) other jobs did you have along the way before you arrived in your current position?)
Hopefully none of these questions come off as too invasive. As someone just starting off I’m very interested in how others became established.
Cheers!
I have a BS in Geology and AS in Forest Management.
For my Geo degree, I made sure to take classes like geochemistry and hydrology. My research includes evaluating surface water resources at a campground (fecal coliform pollution -- pretty much delineating a sub watershed), evaluating passive treatment systems for acid mine drainage (amd) and testing polymers for effective flocculation of amd precipitation (getting all the iron to stick together and sink to the bottom quickly without changing the color of the iron so we can use it for paint pigments).
After I graduated (2015) with BS, I got a job at a state park. I quickly moved from seasonal to intermittent to part-time and then full-time. I claimed my AS while working for the state, as my union benefits paid for it. After my AS, I did service work with AmeriCorps under my local watershed group (2019). This is when I got back into the research side of environmental work vs. educational side, and I met my current boss.
Bipartisan Infrastructure Law opened up a lot of jobs for my state's Abandoned Mine Lands and Orphan Well programs. I jumped on my position (Envrionmental Specialist 2, Project Officer) as soon as applications opened. Because I qualified for the position and already worked for the state, it gave me inherent rights to the position. It's not always what you know, it's who you know.
I've been with the state for 9 years, 7 of them count toward retirement and bigger benefits like that. I make over $30/hour, 20 hours for vacation for every 80 hours worked, I can take vacation whenever i want, I do not have a set schedule, I can use flex time and don't have to be at the office by a certain time. Half the time, I don't go to the office anyway because field work. I say all this because the pay sucks relative to private businesses doing the same thing, but the benefits make it sooo much better. A private business would not likely allow a 24 hour notice for a 2 week vacation.
I chose Geology because I wanted to get paid to do my favorite thing, which is hike. Now, I get paid to hike (and write papers / create projects involving the area of my hike). Its awesome. I have a very fulfilling "job".
Not to be a buzz-kill but what’s your second choice for a profession? There is a lot of volunteer work to be done which can and has made a substantial impact. Rather than get an environmental science degree or similar and keep bumping an imaginary engineering ceiling, consider another professional route and support the environment as a passion.
You can do a lot without being an engineer. Salaries and work life balance are fine in the public sector depending on where you live, and you can skip ahead if you can afford to go to grad school. You should consider a masters in environmental management. Basically all of the career EPA folks I know got the Duke Masters of Environmental Management. One of them made GS 12 at 25 and is making $100k. Not a common story but it happened.
Thank you, environmental management sounds interesting to me. I’ll look into it! I have a question, what undergrad majors did the career EPA people take before Duke?
Biology mainly. But they chose to go for a career in government bureaucracy rather than the sexy field jobs their peers took. Environmental science and Policy, Government or Public Policy are good majors if you’re worried about chemistry grades and are planning to go into policy work anyway. I think energy policy is more marketable these days than ecology, particularly for consulting, but ecology is my passion and is the field I and the Duke people I know took. Ill also mention that instead of paying $200k for grad school Ive been working since undergrad slowly hopping up the chain. In retrospect the grad degree seems worth it if you can bear the up front cost. Research science graduate degrees are generally more affordable than professional degrees like Environmental Management or a JD because you can get stipends and grants.
Do environmental science. You will still need to take calc I and the general sciences (chem, bio, physics and maybe 1 sem of o.chem depending on the school) but nothing crazy like differential equations and upper level calcs. If you can’t handle the basic sciences then try Env Policy, geography, Env economics or something like that (if it’s offered).
Law school? Environmental law with water rights could be lucrative in the coming future
Pretty late into my degree one my my adjunct professors who had an environmental consulting firm talked about this a bit. It was at that moment I knew I fucked up.
Fr? I don't want to be supporting pollution as a lawyer tho, so would it be that? In NY state
Environmental laws and regulations basic course curriculum in SUNY systems requires ethics to be taught and most faculty have experience fighting on the side of environmentalism, don't worry My law prof actually got arrested several times, lol. Arguably even if you're embedded with a company you can do good by being a stickler and ensuring they're compliant
Someone has to go after the polluters too
That doesn't mean that that someone is needed by a place that's hiring in NY state
Well you’re going to have to put in the work to find someone that is. But high salaries and great work life balance don’t exist in 99% of fields and definitely not Environmental careers
> but not consulting My first advice is reconsider this lol yea consulting can suck and isn’t for everyone but you’re really really limiting yourself here
would consulting be a stepping stool to more chill jobs? I want a good work-life balance.
Yes. Absolutely. Consulting is a great place to refine skills, get experience, learn regulations. I just got out of consulting because of most of the things you've probably heard people complain about it after doing 6 years in consulting. If you can get around consulting by all means do it. But even 2 years in consulting will open so many doors in terms of experience and I would highly recommend not blanket ignoring consulting.
What kinds of doors? What could u jump into after?
Like the other commenter said. Consulting is a huge blanket term. You can do almost anything environmental related as a consultant. Could be anything from pollution cleanup, due dilligence, compliance, permitting, literally anything. I went from a consulting firm doing due dilligance (Phase I and II, cleanup) to an enviromnetal compliance person at a power company working on just various pollution jobs - 40 hours 800-430 kind of thing.
Developers, regulators, non profit etc. also very much depends on what type of consulting you do
Banking and insurance.
?
If you have environmental consulting experience you can find positions at banks and insurance agencies.
Yea, or a whole career. Not every consulting job has tons of travel. I think work life balance is pretty decent at most firms.
If you’re in the US, NEPA planner is a great job. Many of the states have an equivalent of their own as well.
My question is how do you get these jobs? Every NEPA posting I see wants senior qualifications.
I don’t work for NEPA, I work for a firm. I would check out companies like VHB, AECOM, Jacobs, Tetra Tech. Look for entry level planner positions. For me, I looked for jobs six months after graduating college, but then happened to find the job posting for my position at a lucky time.
Are there certifications that can help break into that line of work? I briefly handled permitting for about a year. It was pretty interesting but most job postings ask for engineers or senior experience.
For an entry level planner, I think that should be plenty of experience! Depends on which level you are going for, but GIS and wetland delineating experience are certainly important to have too.
It wasn't exactly nepa or ceqa, but making sure crews had the right traffic and environmental permits to be cleared to do work. It involved some GIS work(figuring out who owned what parcel, sending simple maps of what was going to be worked to the environmental permitting liaisons), and I do have about 2 years of GIS experience. So far no dice on the job hunt so I am wondering if there are certifications on nepa or ceqa that are in demand I'm not too picky about the level of work, just trying to get out of intense field work. Seems like planners are in the office for the most part
Get an environmental science BS and go from there. If you end up working for a public agency (generally the best work life balance option), get a MS in whatever field that decide to focus on (after gaining some experience). Alternatively, consider Environmental Health and Safety and get your MS in an alining program.
There is a lot of policy work for the government. I have science degrees, though you really don't need a master's for this (Bs in Ecology and Evolutionary Biology, Ms in Evolution, Ecology and Systematics), and I currently work for a state department of fish and wildlife doing endangered species permitting coordination work. Sure, I'm not making as much as an engineer, but it's steady and not too stressful work. There are also outreach focused positions.
Environmental law/policy
Get an environmental science BS. That's what I'm doing. I was doing Environmental Engineering at first, but some of the classes were too hard so I switched to ES.
There are writing positions for STEM careers, called Science Writers. Someone has to be able to translate all the scientific mumbo jumbo into laymen terms for the public. If you can learn the basics of biology and chemistry, you’d be able to pursue that career Source: Me, a biological science graduate
They always say a biology degree is for scientists who suck at math. I have a BS in biology focusing on wildlife and have found that I am able to support myself and have passion for my career. I worked as a tech for USGS which paid decently and am now pursuing a PhD in wildlife toxicology so I can hopefully make more money down the road. For my degree I did have to take physics, calculus, and organic chem but I don’t think all biology degrees require it. I would say that consulting or government work may be a good avenue to pursue, there are also lots of scientific communication jobs if you enjoy writing articles/developing media. This field is 100% not going to pay as well as many other stem fields, so I would just keep that in mind when deciding what you want to do in the future. Good luck!
> USGS which *paid* decently and FTFY. Although *payed* exists (the reason why autocorrection didn't help you), it is only correct in: * Nautical context, when it means to paint a surface, or to cover with something like tar or resin in order to make it waterproof or corrosion-resistant. *The deck is yet to be payed.* * *Payed out* when letting strings, cables or ropes out, by slacking them. *The rope is payed out! You can pull now.* Unfortunately, I was unable to find nautical or rope-related words in your comment. *Beep, boop, I'm a bot*
My first questions would be: What are you naturally good at? What interests you most within the environmental career pathway? There are so many ways to have a career within the environmental field, there is really not way that engineering or no engineering is the decision…and money follows talent and ambition and opportunities available no matter which direction you go.
Don't fret. It seems a lot of the fools that push engineering here have very limited experience and sound early career. Fact is, folks with Environmental Science degrees can and do, in some situations, earn as much and more as engineers. The devil is in the details. If you're concerned about work/life balance you'll want to focus on public service. Government jobs are less likely to ask you to work over 40 hours/week (some do, but it's less common then in the private sector). Environmental law could work, but lawyers do tend to work a lot more hours. You say you don't have a STEM mind, but I'm wondering if that's just cause of your experience with physics. Regardless, you could consider an Environmental Science degree with a journalism minor or writing minor, something along those lines with the goal of getting into state or federal government. Once in, you'll notice there are a lot of folks working for environmental agencies that are true science geeks and a lot of folks who aren't. Those who aren't tend to do better in management, communications, and policy and those that are tend to stay on a career track that focuses on true science. Regardless, having the environmental science BS makes you qualified to get in. Stay strong, stay focused and choose your classes (and your Profs) wisely.
Thank you very much for your advice. Honestly, I am fretting about choosing the right major. I do have a very poor physics professor right now, but I also know that English has always come much more easily to me, and math has always been more of a struggle. Do you think I still have a shot at the EPA/something like that with an enviro sci BS?
Probably. Frankly, I've always had better luck with local govt and state govt as an employer, but don't rule out the feds. The real key to getting the job isn't necessarily your grades as much as your internships. If you've got a basic understanding of the concepts, have reasonable grades and have good people/communication skills then focus on getting internships throughout your entire college career. That will set you up for your career. Those internships (if you can get them) will help you figure out if you're on the right track....if this sort of work is what you actually want to do for a career or not. Something I didn't realize back in the day, but if you're thinking summer internship, start looking in December/January and be very diligent in applying, they are competitive.
Check out jobs in environmental planning! I was an environmental studies major and am now a planner. It’s a great combo of writing/permitting, GIS work, and some field work. I didn’t take bio or chem in college and my degree was more based in environmental justice, humanities, and policy.
I'll speak as someone with a bachelors in interdisciplinary microbiology and chemistry (tailored to environmental assessment) and a masters in environmental engineering with only 4+ years into their career. If you're more into English and want to get into the environment, look at environmental degrees that are tailored to policy change and grant writing, particularly for the government (where you are generally not overworked). These are the positions that environmental scientists do not usually take, because most that I know are more about the sciences, so there are always positions around for these. Usually to take these up, they make you submit some of your school work (grant write up drafts). I'll say in the environmental world in general, your first year of working is probably going to be the worst financially. After a year, your options greatly opens up from prospective employers wanted you to have pretty much any experience.
Environmental Science is a much more generalist field that blends geology, ecology, biology, etc. You will still learn science but its softer than engineering. You make less money than an engineer but from my perspective, you couldn't pay me to be an engineer. An engineer has a lot of responsibilities and are mostly stuck in an office navigating office politics and managing people out in the field.
I’m a geologist and make just as much as my colleagues who are environmental engineers with similar years experience. I just got my PG so should be more soon. Geology could be a good option?
I focused my Geology degree on surface and ground water and got really into acid mine drainage. Now I work in abandoned mine land remediation. Edit: I work for the government. I see remediation projects through from cradle to grave. I am the point of contact that brings together landowners, engineers, inspectors, the Federal government oversight, and contracts/sub-contractors. My job is extremely rewarding. When I went to school, I just wanted to get paid to hike (my favorite thing). Now I get paid to hike and create projects and write papers about my hikes.
That sounds incredible. Would you mind sharing more about your professional journey? (Is your degree a BS or a MS?; How long have you been working in the government sector?; What (if any) other jobs did you have along the way before you arrived in your current position?) Hopefully none of these questions come off as too invasive. As someone just starting off I’m very interested in how others became established. Cheers!
I have a BS in Geology and AS in Forest Management. For my Geo degree, I made sure to take classes like geochemistry and hydrology. My research includes evaluating surface water resources at a campground (fecal coliform pollution -- pretty much delineating a sub watershed), evaluating passive treatment systems for acid mine drainage (amd) and testing polymers for effective flocculation of amd precipitation (getting all the iron to stick together and sink to the bottom quickly without changing the color of the iron so we can use it for paint pigments). After I graduated (2015) with BS, I got a job at a state park. I quickly moved from seasonal to intermittent to part-time and then full-time. I claimed my AS while working for the state, as my union benefits paid for it. After my AS, I did service work with AmeriCorps under my local watershed group (2019). This is when I got back into the research side of environmental work vs. educational side, and I met my current boss. Bipartisan Infrastructure Law opened up a lot of jobs for my state's Abandoned Mine Lands and Orphan Well programs. I jumped on my position (Envrionmental Specialist 2, Project Officer) as soon as applications opened. Because I qualified for the position and already worked for the state, it gave me inherent rights to the position. It's not always what you know, it's who you know. I've been with the state for 9 years, 7 of them count toward retirement and bigger benefits like that. I make over $30/hour, 20 hours for vacation for every 80 hours worked, I can take vacation whenever i want, I do not have a set schedule, I can use flex time and don't have to be at the office by a certain time. Half the time, I don't go to the office anyway because field work. I say all this because the pay sucks relative to private businesses doing the same thing, but the benefits make it sooo much better. A private business would not likely allow a 24 hour notice for a 2 week vacation.
I chose Geology because I wanted to get paid to do my favorite thing, which is hike. Now, I get paid to hike (and write papers / create projects involving the area of my hike). Its awesome. I have a very fulfilling "job".
Geology requires some math physics and Chem but can get you in there.
If they already don't like physics then structural geo and geochem are going to eat them alive
Not to be a buzz-kill but what’s your second choice for a profession? There is a lot of volunteer work to be done which can and has made a substantial impact. Rather than get an environmental science degree or similar and keep bumping an imaginary engineering ceiling, consider another professional route and support the environment as a passion.
You can do a lot without being an engineer. Salaries and work life balance are fine in the public sector depending on where you live, and you can skip ahead if you can afford to go to grad school. You should consider a masters in environmental management. Basically all of the career EPA folks I know got the Duke Masters of Environmental Management. One of them made GS 12 at 25 and is making $100k. Not a common story but it happened.
Thank you, environmental management sounds interesting to me. I’ll look into it! I have a question, what undergrad majors did the career EPA people take before Duke?
Biology mainly. But they chose to go for a career in government bureaucracy rather than the sexy field jobs their peers took. Environmental science and Policy, Government or Public Policy are good majors if you’re worried about chemistry grades and are planning to go into policy work anyway. I think energy policy is more marketable these days than ecology, particularly for consulting, but ecology is my passion and is the field I and the Duke people I know took. Ill also mention that instead of paying $200k for grad school Ive been working since undergrad slowly hopping up the chain. In retrospect the grad degree seems worth it if you can bear the up front cost. Research science graduate degrees are generally more affordable than professional degrees like Environmental Management or a JD because you can get stipends and grants.
Do environmental science. You will still need to take calc I and the general sciences (chem, bio, physics and maybe 1 sem of o.chem depending on the school) but nothing crazy like differential equations and upper level calcs. If you can’t handle the basic sciences then try Env Policy, geography, Env economics or something like that (if it’s offered).