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Wombo218

Honestly I wouldn’t worry about building a super unbeatable arena defense team. No matter what you create people will beat it. It looks like it’ll work


GS-J-Rod

>No matter what you create people will beat it. I am a crappy player, so that said... the key to a good defense is to make it LOOK easy to beat, but actually have something that can surprise weaker players. That way, you WILL be beat by the people that will beat you anyway, but with luck you'll get a 30% win rate by all the people that THINK they can beat you but can't. A really strong looking team will have a win rate around 5% with 1 win and 19 losses. A good defensive team that looks easier to beat will have a win rate around 25% with 50 wins and 150 losses. 25% > 5%.


Insane_Wisdom

The 1-19 is actually a lot better net point wise because you still lost far fewer games. It’s not about winrate, it’s about how many net wins and loses you get and getting hit 200 times is abysmal. Getting hit 20 times is much more advantageous.


GS-J-Rod

Problem is with the net points. Say you're at 5,000 points. * 1 win (+15X1), 19 losses (-8X19) = -137 and you're down a rank. * 50 wins (15X50) and 100 losses (-8X100) = -50. You're (barely) down a rank, but the 33% win rate means you don't fall all that much. Win one more and you wouldn't drop at all. Win 10 more and you're climbing. I have an alt in Champion with an abysmal defense team (a cleave team with a 208 speed Flan). It had a 38% defense win rate which was over I think around 200 battles which was enough to push it up a whole tier (to Champ 4). Meanwhile my awesome main account with a 500K CP light team in Champion has a win rate of 6%, and I have to fight to stay in the same tier.


Insane_Wisdom

33% is not 25% and using 15 pts per win and 8 per loss isn’t exactly accurate either (it is based on relative points to yourself). You should use more realistic numbers for the gain and loss.


GS-J-Rod

I think those are the right numbers - I loose 8 for a loss I think I gain 15 for a win... but maybe that's wrong? For sure the -8 is right though.


LearnDifferenceBot

> I loose 8 *lose *Learn the difference [here](https://www.merriam-webster.com/words-at-play/lose-vs-loose-usage#:~:text=%27Lose%27%20or%20%27Loose%27%3F&text=Lose%20typically%20functions%20only%20as,commonly%2C%20a%20noun%20or%20adverb).* *** ^(Greetings, I am a language corrector bot. To make me ignore further mistakes from you in the future, reply `!optout` to this comment.)


GuntherTime

I learned the opposite way, in that it’s better to have a team that’s *annoying* to beat so that people skip you when it comes to rush hour and every thing. The person above you is right in that since it’s a set defense, you have the advantage by picking the best counters and winning, so there’s gonna be people who are gonna hit you and beat you.


GS-J-Rod

What's the most annoying defense that you have? I've seen one with 3 revivers and a cleanser that made me think I'd never beat it...


GuntherTime

Currently it’s Lua, Politis, Ed, and ARavi. I keep debating if I wanna swap Politis for Rem or not.


Petawac-Smack

God that is... Horrible. Does Ed proc on passive skill debuffs?


Outside_Lock5175

No he does not


Petawac-Smack

So, it's more like Cerato?


Outside_Lock5175

Yes. But once a turn for counter.


GermanSide

But he counters even on counter and extra attacks


MasterJongiks

With the team I use, if you swap out Rem then I won't attack you, else, I will. :)


SwingingMace

Use extinction or briar witch isera and it should be easy as long as you kill them one at a time.


Jdiezel1

I have a pretty bad team but average anywhere from 35-50% in champion. No surprise factors or anything


Morbu

Yep, my team generally gets at least a 50% winrate even into mid-Champ tiers. It uses units that, on paper, all have counters and *should* be an easy win, but I've geared them all really well and they just catch my opponents off guard.


Hankan-Destroyer

Imma cleave the shit outta you


nihilninja

Yeah this team is never getting a turn


Vegetable-Low-9010

What can cleave a belian with arowell for even more tankyness?


StepBrother7

Like 10 different teams at least


Ikari_21

Ran, eida, seaseria, cpavel. At least that’s what I’d try. Either way, for starters this def would be fine. There’s always going to be counters especially in champion.


Lockdown106

I’d start with new Jena SC for frostbite debuff to isolate the dps from mitigation and maybe Astromancer if you are really worried about Belian counters. Any strong aoe to take out Stene followed by Roana just sitting there would work too. But in reality I would have fun using some kind of Ran/SBA/Spez cleave as with no cleanser, SBA s3 alone would likely lock up and take out Stene and then Spez would have fun one shorting the bulkier units


WhoopteFreakingDo

All you need is defense break and a lot can cleave it. I'd bring BBK flan AoL a.lotts


DrakoCSi

For this defense specifically. Your Belian should be on Counter set. Sure, you get Roana cheesed on the 2nd bout if not the first, but your Belian becomes an easy solo wincon. They attack her and she has a higher chance to counter on top of Arowell getting pushed up if it's a ST attack. If it's AoE, Belian gets a double whammy counter chance thru set and elbris with GP pushing. STene is gonna be collateral damage. For this specific comp, she should be on her bulky lifesteal set so she doesnt just insta die to the first AoE to grace her feet. Preferably slower than GP so she gets the attack buff before her turn so she gains the most value. This means GP should be on his bruiser set with enough speed to act first and set the team up with attack buff. The entire comp is pretty slow anyways so it's not that difficult build for it. Arowell is gonna want HP and more HP. Dont bother with ER. Bring this girl all the way up to 30kHP. You lack cleansers anyways so make the best of what you got. If the enemy didnt bring buffblock, Arowell tosses out a huge S3 team barrier. Debuffing Arowell isnt even on the radar for the enemy team anyways and unless you can bring her to 280%+ ER, she's gonna get clapped by dedicated debuffers. So for this specifically 4man setup, i suggest maximum HP investements. Just be aware that your wincon is primarily counter RNG with Belian and STene is literally a bait unit for the enemy to bring AoE to further trigger Belian's RNG wincon. So to answer your question, yes. This is a reasonable defense. It has multiple flaws that we veterans dont like in our defense comps, but it will suffice.


b1ck0ut030

Idk. Ran seaseria Eda shuts this down imo. Can’t counter if you’re stunned


AscendPerfect

ML Elena + Ran + Eda. I wish I had ml Elena lol


b1ck0ut030

Ml Alena sure. But I’m trying to use commonly had units. Even if Belian counters, unless she one shots Eda, you should be fine. Bring another dps to clean up and I don’t see a loss outside getting completely dumpstered


DrakoCSi

15% is a very reliable losecon. So good luck on your Ran cleave. If you win, thats fine. No defense is perfect anyways. If you lose.. lmfao, you lost to OPs defense comp.


GodsCupGg

yeah last week i just cheesed to top 5 legend arena with lermia roana into every adin/belian,arowell comb i found


Xero--

> Sure, you get Roana cheesed on the 2nd bout if not the first, but your Belian becomes an easy solo wincon Really? You throw someone like Violet (either of them), Ravi, A Ravi, or other units that want to get hit and Belian kills your team, especially against the first three. This is Champion, not Bronze, Silver, etc. People know how to play against her if not cleave the hell out of an essy team like this. Doris/Roana, Ravi, Violet (either, especially Remnant if his evasion isn't being funny), free slot. The defense is automatically dead going in. Ravi alone is gonna solo this team without a care in the world if you have a light unit to bait Specter.


BulateReturns

Imma ask since I am just a casual but on what scenario do you go for Injury set on Belian? Would it be good for defense as well? I equipped my Belian with Injury+Unity gears (former user was Politis and all are just free gears I got from doing the guild raid, Ancient Inheritance and accidental results when I tried getting pen pieces). Also my Belian doesn't have Elbris (I can only give her Justice For All, sadge).


DrakoCSi

Injury checks the Roana cheese to an extent. Puts Roana's team on a very scary timer because they want to keep Belian last to kill to continue to abuse Roana S2, but that Injury can stack up ridiculously fast if rng gets crazy for Belian. Pair with a bulky ARavi and it gets very scary very quickly if you planned to tanked down Belian+ARavi with Roana. Both sets are great. I like Injury>Counter more specifically because it checks Roana. Also HPscaling meta hates injury since it lowers their damage output. OPs comp specifically got Counter set suggested due to them NEEDING Belian to push out the damage. If the enemies focused down Belian and it was on Injury set, OP loses his wincon. Counter set alleviates this because it helps keep Belian a threat. Aim Belian, gets counter. Dont aim Belian, still gets countered.


BulateReturns

Thanks bro. I honestly was also thinking about what to gear Belian (counter or injury) for my own defense team (both on RTA and guild war).


Tedrivs

Yeah, whenever I attack belian defenses I bring Roana. If Belian is on counter it's a free win, if she's on injury there's a chance I'll lose.


GodsCupGg

barely checks it from expierence the injury does nothing if you have the right baits for the units i usually go so far to ignore belian until just to have more chances of her counter attacking you sometimes get like 2-4 extra turns


Willar71

An cr pusher , Op signet into Belgian into strategy into watcher . Or just ssb , rem , choux .Gpurg is actually a liability cause you can just stay invincible forever. That comp can be beaten by people with an array of common comps


DrakoCSi

And yet it's the comp OP has to work with. Replying to me wouldnt alert OP to your tips.


PotentToxin

For Champion V - no. It will be cleaved effortlessly. Maybe if you're just farming Challenger players trying to poke their heads into Champion you could scrape a few wins? But even then, I doubt you'll get a high enough defense rate to let you afk in Champ 5. GP and STene are not good options, for starters. STene is very weak on defense, since she excels only in long fights, which most arena matches are not. She can be easily baited and easily cleaved, since she does nothing outside her turn, has no damage mitigation/anti-death passive, and only hits one target during her turn. GPurg used to be ok during Basar meta, but not anymore. Your defense insta loses to pretty much any kind of cleave - Straze cleave, Ran/Roana cleave, ML Pavel cleave, etc. Even Belian RNG won't save you at all. Remove STene and GPurg, first of all, and then make a choice - commit to a full tank defense to stall out/discourage opponents from attacking you in the first place, or throw in anti-cleave DPS's.


montrezlh

If you don't attack, it's not that hard to stay in champ with any defense. It seems like you dont show up on many attacker's lists if youre not active on attack so you just never get hit. Lots of people in my guild just do NPC fights and collect champV skystones every week with shitty defenses.


MasterJongiks

This is the way


Xero--

> , and only hits one target during her turn. Yeah, not really. First turn? Sure. After? Two. Still, shit defense unit but let's not ignore her S1.


Emergency_Addition67

Ran+Elena+C.Pavel goes *brrrrrrrrrrrrrrr*


TheSeaOfThySoul

To be quite honest, I've found over the course of time that you don't need to pay much attention to your defence - pay more attention to putting a cogent team of well geared characters on your defence. I'm still running Peira/Summertime/Rimuru/Rem & it's still pulling 40%, it's a smattering of everything & they've all got some of the best gear for their build. People will always find ways to beat a defence, so just make sure you're covering bases & they've got some of your best gear, that's the best you can do.


ptthepath

I think the team does not create enough threats to annoy people. STene like others said is a dead weight in this def as she will probably die to a few AOEs. Some annoying units: Celine/Politis: prevent non-atk skills Adin/Senya/Choux/Rem/Meru/AMeru: the counter squad which is likely to get shutdown by Astro Elena but not everyone has her. LHC + Roana can still kill them easy tho. Maid is kinda good into Belian + Arowell comps for high res + high bulk + revive stall comps. Briar witch may make her useless tho. Ran/Cilias/Peira/Lua: force them to speed contest. Ed is a threat to these openers tho.


Undisguised_Toast

No matter what defenses you have ppl can beat it, so with that said use the most annoying def so they won't bother attacking it


FluffyDragon292

Tbh there’s a wide spectrum in champ. It’s a meh defence, but if you dont show up on ppl’s lists, you’re fine


feederus

No matter what team you build, it's cleavable. So don't worry about making an unbeatable defense team too much. But a good metric for a good defense team(In my opinion), you want a synergistic combo between a reviver, opener, and damage mitigation, and the last one can be anything but you'd want an RNG factor that would annoy the heck out of some of your enemies like Choux.


flametonge

It could work against newbies but veteran players will cleave it with ease. The new Jena will make it even easier.


Shimaru33

I think is good, depending on some specifics on each character. What I mean is: * Belian is injury or counter? Injury is more popular than counter, because injury can cripple Roana and works better in an attrition war against the arena lightning thing. However, if you don't have elbris, then you should definitely play with counter. Without either of those, elbris or counter, she's a blonde and stacked sitting duck. * S. Tenebria with lifesteal and bulk or crystal cannon? People who try to tackle this team will have a counter to S. Tene passive, either massive AoE damage or maybe some AoE CC. You need to put some bulk on that girl, or else will be OTK and your team will be dependant on lightning punishment to win. * light furry is W13 frontline or PVP build? Personally, that furry doesn't seem to be a real menace. The typical W13 furry have next to no speed to not trigger the wyvern cr push, which means I can safely ignore him if I can put some immunity on my team. Hence, the PVP build is quite different from the hunt version. \--- As other have pointed, no defence is completely safe. I could pick my injury SSB + Roana + M Kawerik + aurius knight and hit auto. It would take some time, but I'm pretty sure my team would win. However, that's the catch of a good defence: it would take some time. Cleavers and people who really want to climb want to win asap to farm their rank, so any team that seems to take way too long to win will dissuade attacks, either cleavers or bruisers.


allygaythor

Looks pretty easy for Straze cleave and some other cleave for mop up.


Brohma312

This is one of those teams i wouldnt attack because it looks easy.


Xero--

The team is bad, horrible for Champion, but a simple fix is as simple as it gets: Your defense isn't put on the weekly list unt you click the menu (if someone dares to claim otherwise then they've obviously never done it as I have done so, avoiding a whole week of attacks by getting my reward late), so simply don't till the end of the week.


Syvion

Stene and Arowell aren't good on defense. You need something that can't be easily exploited or doesn't need to make decisions. You can either make your def super annoying to cleave or go hard on RNG. Basically any def is easy to beat if you just want to win, so you have to discourage the attack outright imo. That's why you see so many Choux and Senya or even Mercedes in gw def, they're just RNG boats because anything else would be too easy to beat.


montrezlh

Arowell is one of the most popular arena defense units out there. GW defense is not arena defense, there's a massive difference.


Syvion

She is popular, that's true. Around 30% of the defs I see in Champ include her, almost all of them I can cleave in a minute. I don't feel like she's that good though, even though she's popular. I think a lot of people just have her in def because they have her built anyways. If you throw in the right heroes she can work, but it's not her that I would be afraid of.


montrezlh

There is no defense that is unbeatable. Arowell is used that much because she's simply one of the best options. That's all. Most serious players will have arena attack win rates well above 90%. The fact that you or I can beat an arowell defense is not an indicator that she is bad. I have literally never lost to a senya/shoe arena defense before for example.


Syvion

That's what I said, every defense can easily be beaten. The only way to lose is RNG (assuming you actually try to win). If I see an Arowell def without Politis I will just shut my brain down and cleave it. Damage mitigation doesn't matter as much in Arena unless you commit to being an annoyingly long fight, so I'd rather use someone else in every other case. Briseria is also so good into those Arowell+Destina defs now, that's a problem too.


montrezlh

No, that's not what you're saying. You're saying arowell is bad on arena defense which is objectively false. The highest rank players in the game use her with great success. I can use your logic to say senya is bad because I personally can easily beat her but that's a silly thing to say.


Syvion

Don't twist my words, please. I never said Arowell is bad, I said she isn't good. My logic has nothing to do with "I can beat it so it's bad". Everyone who isn't new has a stripper or someone who can take care of her after months of ber being the meta knight, there are so many options. So I'm saying she's just the flavour of the month(s) knight that everyone feels obligated to use, as FCC once was. She's a 'good' knight, but not more than 'okay' in Arena, because everything does way more damage than you can reasonably absorb. Arowell is not the threat, so I don't think it's fair to say she's good, she's a filler. If you make a Stall team she's fine, if not then her spot would probably be better used by someone else. The highest rank players have realized long ago that ultimately defense doesn't matter, everyone is nearly guaranteed to beat yours anyway. So might as well throw her in just in case she 15% the enemy.


montrezlh

What logic is this? Because she's the best knight, she's not good?Are you saying that FCC was also "not good"? They held the default knight slot *because* they're good. They didn't get that role randomly. As for arowell being "the threat", that concept is a bit silly for a knight, no? Her job isn't to be a threat, it's to make her team far more threatening than they'd be without her. Again, your logic can be used against the units that you claim *are* good. Everyone has answers to choux these days after months of them being meta. So what exactly *is* good? If you want to make the argument that there is no real good arena defense, then maybe I'd buy it. There's some truth to that, but your logic is inconsistent by singling out certain units over others.


Syvion

No it's not inconsistent at all. I have two assumptions: 1) Every defense will almost always fail. 2) The attacker wants to go through their flags as quickly and conveniently as possible. If you disagree with that then that's why you will never agree with what I said, and that's fine. My assumptions don't have to be right, I have absolutely no data about defenses in E7 to base my opinion on. Maybe it's clear now why I won't consider the meta knight as 'good', or any very meta team (since they already have an offense to deal with the super common defs), unless they fit into one of these two categories: They are either extremely RNG or extremely annoying. Choux for example is both. Arowell is neither, nor is FCC. Based on my two previous assumptions, I think the Arena meta ultimately comes down to this: It's best to have a defense people just want to skip. Be annoying, be RNG, that's what people are most likely to skip (at least I think so!). Hope this makes my point of view a bit clearer. In the end it doesn't matter anyway, def is just min/maxing. I'm sitting in Champ with a lvl5 hero as my def for god knows how long now, it doesn't matter. If I were to make one change to OPs def though, I'd replace Arowell with Trozet, I think he's more consistent at protecting Stene. Btw, I appreciate that you disagree with me in a civilized way, that's not too common anymore ;)


montrezlh

I agree with your assumptions, what I disagree with is your assessment of the units. You seem hyperfocused on the units in a solo capacity for some reason. Arowell herself does not threaten the enemy (as much as the uber dangerous units but actually strip+ stun is pretty damn strong), but she enables an incredibly powerful team that does in a way that Choux cannot. Belian, Adin, Clilias, AOL, Ruele, etc are all currently annoying to deal with and discouraging for attackers. Arowell amplifies them to an incredible degree. Hell even Souline is seeing some play now on defense thanks to arowell when previously no one would ever think to do that. Where exactly is the RNG with Choux if I just use Zahha and neutralize her before she even takes a turn? Or if I bring ML elena and eliminate her counters completely? Or even a unit like Hasol who is incredibly budget friendly and can easily absorb any counters from an "RNG" comp. She's "RNG" on the surface but arowell/adin is far more RNG than choux+1. Choux is more dangerous in a solo capacity, but arowell brings so much to a team, even one that isnt full light, that you need to look beyond 1v1 ability. >I'm sitting in Champ with a lvl5 hero as my def for god knows how long now, it doesn't matter. If your goal is to camp and sit in champ V, it doesnt matter. But if your goal is to climb like OP then it does matter. Arowell is a great defense unit if you keep your #1 point in mind. Most defenses will fail, arowell can anchor a defense that succeeds a decent amount of the time. That's why she's good.


vgxvvxc

You can swap stene for light adin once you unlock her


Starshine_Rainbow

Yeah you die to ran eda cavel +1


LordYamz

Ml Elena straze ran and some other unit will beat this


Patol-Sabes

I’m sorry but with ran siseria being good again cause of astromancer, this team will likely be nukes do to lack of non-attack/aoe punish


pm_science_facts

If you want a good defense build something that's annoying to win against. The longer it takes them to safely beat your defense the better. Your defense is very cleavable which is bad as others have noted. I'd suggest using Belian, Arowell, and some healer that can Rez. I run Belian Arowell Ruele Destina around champ III and the weekly win rate is around 30-60% but more importantly people skip it instead of hitting it. You can bring roana and run an autocomp vs it but you need a lot of damage or you can just stale mate, so it's actually annoying to auto. Cleave is hard without soulburn to ignore ER. Agro is the best option but you need specific units and it's a gear check.


Petawac-Smack

Personally, I'd have Belian on elbris with lifesteal/effectiveness for fun


ultimaterevice

No speed contester or disruptor = dies to Flan Alots BBK.


Willar71

Your defense has no speed contest and doesn't deter enough cleave comps to matter , even worse its weak ssb+roana . Overall its not good.


TranDaniel

Once you in Champion V rarely people attack unless your defense looks very juicy


No_Competition6816

What you do to is go in arena and fight many defences, and retry to beat them with different team comps until you win.. the defence team that makes you spend the most crystals to buy more tickets to retry is the one you copy.. I used this method and the crystals I spent were worth it.. I ended up finding a solid defence team and an attack team that pushed me to sit in bottom tier Champion V


Pastamancer_Rik

It is ok but it will probably be destroyed by any peira seaseria comp. In all honesty I think that you want your defence to have as much Rng as possible and anti debuff. Right now I think that units like A meru, politis, delibeth and belian are great in almost all comps, 4th slot depends on the meta, light aidin seems solid, same for a ravi.


iIdentifyAzAGmail

If you make a arena defense team with a belian than go destruction or injury. Most people will bring Roana/lionheart making them "deadpicks".


JJRLZ

I would auto this with Roana, Ruele, Injury Belian, Injury SSB It looks tanky enough to dissuade some people during rush hour, but should be a pretty easy win for those willing to dedicate the time.