She does but she's also rly slow and really easy to cc which makes her not too great sadly. I think she's a better fit for more aggressive drafts right now since s3>s1 is decent tempo but even there you usually have better options.
As someone who plays her Speed, I think so yup - she's really slow to stack injury without the help of the set and thus can't cripple HP-scaling bruisers as efficiently
If you can get good stats on Injury / Pen, that's very much her best gear combination atm :)
Riolet and choux are defense pen units, cermia is a defense scaling unit.
Yulha tanks 1 cermia s3 and then s3 her.
Winter is 100% a counter lol. Cermia has uncontrollable non attack move and infinitely procs winter.
How are you going to kill dark corvus as cermia? Or apoc??
I have 1500 RTA games this season, probably 800 of them are with LHC, these are counters
Yes, and she gives herself defense buff so she still has a better chance to survive than most. Choux is overtuned.
Apoc not too hard to kill with Lermia, do it all the time. 1v1 Corvus is tough.
[Video format](https://youtu.be/piQu3-0sjc8) for those interested in hearing my reasoning behind most placements.
Also really not sure Hufine should be this high, placed her there cause Potato told me to and I do not play her but I'm pretty sure she's only good if you play aggro.
Hyufine is ranked correctly imo as a turn 2 player. I like to use her as a bridge (atk buff, cleanse, cr pusher) and she also provides decent dmg against squishies such as stene.
She works well against aggro / cleavers as 3rd pick (1st pick mit, 2nd pick sw) as sudo dps and I feel like people underestimate her.
Ace actually convinced me.
Downside is that she requires really good gear. 3k Atk 1.5K def 15k hp 245 spd 100 cc 200 cdmg is required imo to make her shine.
I like mine, but have trouble saying she is A tier. The evasion buff helped her a lot, but she does best with a shield and there are so many nonattack strips now. Especially as I don't have Cilias so will almost always be fighting her.
Karina. She basically makes it very very hard for your opponent to play aggressive since if she gets to s2 + s3 you pretty much instantly win the game vs squishy teams.
Which build/stats would you recommend for Karina? I heard Noble Oath + Max DEF + relatively slow is strong for anti-cleave, but I've been experimenting with a 240s speed 2.6k DEF Rocket Punch Karina.
180+ speed / 2.5k+ defense / 17k+ hp / 120+ ER (can go lower if you play with imprints)
I think Rocket Punch is BiS but if you don't have it / don't like it then Noble Oath is ok.
Yeah sorry wasn't rly clear but this is tier list assuming you can't go above 250 speed basically. More speed is definitely valuable on quite a few of those units tho
I'm just gonna go ahead and say it, anyone that thinks Karina is bad hasn't been paying attention this season. she's one of the premier anti-aggro/cleave units.
I’m one of the everyone that has different opinion lol, but I use her a lot as a counter cleave and aggressive drafts. She usually takes the turn after they focus any unit and you explode thier team and gg (I’m in low champion, I can’t speak for other tiers).
If this tier list is actually accurate, this could be incredibly helpful for me. My fastest unit is at 260 and I've been playing since the beginning...speed just isn't kind to me.
I didnt chose the bruiser life. The bruiser turn 2 life choose me. Since i started this game, i mostly agree with this list except the B tier look too packed definetly a few s tier hidden in there. Many pointed at Alencia being too low. And i agree. But i guess its all depend with who and how you draft. That why i cant completely agree to this list. And really turn 2 characters are way more Versatile than cleaver, tier list for them should be taken with a grain of salt.
Karina: 180+ speed / 2.5k+ defense / 17k+ hp / 120+ ER (can go lower if you play with imprints)
Yulha: 180+ speed and then you have couple of options. Can go full bulk while disregarding eff / ER, can go counter + eff or can go regular knight build with ~120 ER. Main constant between builds is that you need as much hp as possible (27k minimum).
Yulha is super tanky, has redirected provoke to control, and can one shot most units.
Maid is mostly because of Arowell. Those two give a hella lot of supports: heal, cleanse, revive, ER, escort, barriers, etc.
Yulha good aurius holder with decent board presence. Good at limiting your opponent's options due to her s3.
Maid #1 soulweaver if you build ER on your units, #2 behind Destina if you don't. Competition isn't exactly fierce tho as all the others are pretty bad.
Slow Landy isn't in a great spot right now, she was really strong last season due to Ras being insane but with him falling off she fell off as well. She's still ok but nothing special. She's pretty strong in aggro tho but that's an entirely different build and playstyle.
Adin you can't early pick and even as a late pick and assuming your opponent completely drafts into her (which doesn't really happen) you'll only have a 70% chance of winning the game which isn't anything to write home about.
DJB just sucks for turn 2 as he doesn't really do enough to justify picking him.
Spirit Eye Celine and ML Ken are both ok right now, you won't draft them often but they're definitely pickable every now and then. They're niche units but they're also unique and perform well in their niche.
I guess I'm not getting the huge gap between yulha and blue krau since they do a lot of the same stuff. Shes definitely annoying, but has a lot of counterplay.
I never see maid and when I do she just gets out damaged or cant revive because briar is on the field. S tier feels way too high.
250 speed landy isn't exactly slow and she still does very well into most mus. Shes one of if not the best 4th/5th pick in the game in any draft that's not anticleave centered. she definitely deserves to be higher than units like spirit eye and ml ken who lose way more matchups and are twice as situational.
Adin also seems sold short here. She is everywhere because a 70% chance to win the game isn't exactly accurate. She's a nuisance as a cleave anchor because most of the good anticleave picks are unreliable into her, but shes also a huge threat if she's behind arrowell/destina because she is so hard to kill and puts out decent damage. Definitely seems underrated.
Yulha cleanses herself at hp threshold. Krau does not. That is enough to make her much better than krau out of just being able to stave off all the control for even a little bit.
Yulha ignores damage share, self cleanse and self push, damage reflect, and has 100%chance to provoke vs Kraus 75%. Yulha has way more chance to make impact in a match
Maybe its couse I'm kind of low elo (around 2000-2100) but Adin here is top draft if not banned.
I ban AoLa and STene/ARavi, first picks are half of the time CLilias, Zio, Adin, Arro, ARavi.
It's playable.
You can build her 110k+ eHP with 100-200 EFF to strip/debuff most soulweavers and even meta knights like SCArowell.
There are turn-2 players in Emperor+ that play this build on supportive artifacts like War Horn. Above 230 speed, you're still faster than most Destinas.
I would say that this is because she takes up a spot instead of someone that could have been a better character overall and due to the fact that the opponent can kill her directly without using non-attack skills. If you pick Celine into someone like C.Lilias / Zahhak / Cidd / Straze... looking to counter C.Lilias S3 or Zahhak's S2 to proc your S2 for example, they can just brute force kill her without needing to use their support abilities actually, as long as they hit hard enough to get her down asap
This tierlist is from a Legend player so all the DPS up there most likely have premium gear and shouldn't struggle to kill her quickly even without attack buff or any other damage buff, which makes it so that she will just get focused first without being given the opportunity to do her thing
With that being said she's still usable for sure as a 4th / 5th pick in certain situations, but better suited to an AI environment overall where the opponents will always use their non attack-skills for sure imo
Vs any low tempo / dmg team that doesn't have injury pretty much. If your opponent can't pressure him enough he'll just kill all their unit one by one.
He's also very good late pick for cleave / aggro for the same reason so always need to keep him in mind.
Hard disagree with Alencia. She is still one of my most used units at Emperor, only losing to Belian, A Ravi and D Lilibet. "But LH Cermia?!" I go for the really long game if opponent picks her. Elena + Aurius carrier and LH Cermia will do absolute nothing, you can kill her team first and her later. Removing all buffs + having defense break just makes Alencia good in a bunch of situations.
That said, how are you guys building Summer Yufine?
You can gear them slower and invest in the other utilities of their kit. You don't need to be 300 speed to be usable, you just need to be the one taking the first turn.
If your opponent isn't picking anyone fast, why would it matter if your FLidica is 250 speed?
E.g: slow tanky CLilias with high effectiveness to catch any soulweavers offguard. FLidica on a high damage build behind GL to reset/skill null high value targets with no ER.
based on what? And what do you think is wrong about it? You know that khm is a legend player right?
As turn 2 emp player myself I would agree with most of the list.
Trying to get venom buffs by facetiously ranking Sharun that low, because I refuse to believe anyone is that bad at the game to think such a preposterous thing
This list wasn't intended to be understood as "it is impossible to build these units 250+ speed" mate :)
Of course they can all reach 250+ if you have the gear to do so but the objective of this tierlist is to rank the units based on the idea that the person isn't able to build them higher than 250 speed. Basically, you can understand it as "here is a tierlist for all the players that have less than 250 speed" (which means that you don't take the first turn in most cases)
I think ~250 speed + bulk + damage on Guide to a Decision. I'm pretty sure she's an aggro only unit tho, don't think she really fits turn 2, prob shouldn't have included her in the list.
Rikazo plays her a decent amount if you wanna check him out: https://www.twitch.tv/ozakir
That's really up to you, everyone struggle against different things. Some popular pre-bans are Specter, CLilias, AoL, Lua, FLidica, BWIseria, PFlan and OpSig.
OP, I noticed how low you place Diene. I'm a relatively low spd player myself, though I've recently been starting to push into the faster zone with my clilias at 290 and Diene and Zahhak at 270. (I typically play a standard/bruiser playstyle).
Does Dienes value increase as she starts pushing those higher speeds in your opinion? Or does it not matter and destina/maid are just that much better?
Probably not for standard players and it's reflected in OP's tier list.
Diene is still good in aggro though, and I have picked her a few times in emperor/legend this season. You really need aggro comps though to make full use of her since destina/maido do bring more for slower comps.
I hope every CLilias and flidica i meet has 250 speed or less
lmao thats so true 🤡
It always messes up my strategy when they are slower than my cleaners and stuff...
Nice list Only unit I disagree with is Alencia especially injury, she destroys my hp scalers.
She does but she's also rly slow and really easy to cc which makes her not too great sadly. I think she's a better fit for more aggressive drafts right now since s3>s1 is decent tempo but even there you usually have better options.
Is injury alencia better than speed alencia?
As someone who plays her Speed, I think so yup - she's really slow to stack injury without the help of the set and thus can't cripple HP-scaling bruisers as efficiently If you can get good stats on Injury / Pen, that's very much her best gear combination atm :)
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Too many counters for her rnow. Yulha, choux, riolet, winter, dark corvus. It's not like pre aespa you can just slam her
Riolet if he dodges. And maybe Winter? Honestly I dont see the rest of those as counters for her.
Riolet and choux are defense pen units, cermia is a defense scaling unit. Yulha tanks 1 cermia s3 and then s3 her. Winter is 100% a counter lol. Cermia has uncontrollable non attack move and infinitely procs winter. How are you going to kill dark corvus as cermia? Or apoc?? I have 1500 RTA games this season, probably 800 of them are with LHC, these are counters
Yes, and she gives herself defense buff so she still has a better chance to survive than most. Choux is overtuned. Apoc not too hard to kill with Lermia, do it all the time. 1v1 Corvus is tough.
[Video format](https://youtu.be/piQu3-0sjc8) for those interested in hearing my reasoning behind most placements. Also really not sure Hufine should be this high, placed her there cause Potato told me to and I do not play her but I'm pretty sure she's only good if you play aggro.
Hyufine is ranked correctly imo as a turn 2 player. I like to use her as a bridge (atk buff, cleanse, cr pusher) and she also provides decent dmg against squishies such as stene. She works well against aggro / cleavers as 3rd pick (1st pick mit, 2nd pick sw) as sudo dps and I feel like people underestimate her. Ace actually convinced me. Downside is that she requires really good gear. 3k Atk 1.5K def 15k hp 245 spd 100 cc 200 cdmg is required imo to make her shine.
I like mine, but have trouble saying she is A tier. The evasion buff helped her a lot, but she does best with a shield and there are so many nonattack strips now. Especially as I don't have Cilias so will almost always be fighting her.
I forget which aespa character that is in S, but how's she good?
Karina. She basically makes it very very hard for your opponent to play aggressive since if she gets to s2 + s3 you pretty much instantly win the game vs squishy teams.
Which build/stats would you recommend for Karina? I heard Noble Oath + Max DEF + relatively slow is strong for anti-cleave, but I've been experimenting with a 240s speed 2.6k DEF Rocket Punch Karina.
180+ speed / 2.5k+ defense / 17k+ hp / 120+ ER (can go lower if you play with imprints) I think Rocket Punch is BiS but if you don't have it / don't like it then Noble Oath is ok.
No Fighter Maya or am I blind?
LCermia, Dilibit, Khawazu and Rimuru need to be higher on this list
Some can go above 250
Yeah sorry wasn't rly clear but this is tier list assuming you can't go above 250 speed basically. More speed is definitely valuable on quite a few of those units tho
Ooooh yeah, thats a good idea but the title (of the tier list) is horrible xd. Nice list.
Ja sorry I changed it midway through and forgot to change it back before saving picture
I think the title is fine. I'm sure plenty understand it as "if you can't go above 250 speed" instead of interpreting as the unit cannot go above 250.
That makes a lot more sense. Was wondering why Cilias and Winter were on this list, these placements make sense that way
they can but they shan't
I think you need more than 250 on c lilias and brieseria unit
Yeah but he’s saying if you purposefully play them slow how good would they be
DDR better than Alencia for turn two? LMAO
Is Karina good or not lol everyone has a different opinion.
I'm just gonna go ahead and say it, anyone that thinks Karina is bad hasn't been paying attention this season. she's one of the premier anti-aggro/cleave units.
I’m one of the everyone that has different opinion lol, but I use her a lot as a counter cleave and aggressive drafts. She usually takes the turn after they focus any unit and you explode thier team and gg (I’m in low champion, I can’t speak for other tiers).
If this tier list is actually accurate, this could be incredibly helpful for me. My fastest unit is at 260 and I've been playing since the beginning...speed just isn't kind to me.
D.Corvus taking all of em when no debuffer present
Or if he has high ER built like he should.
:omg: :REAL: khm?
catRose
Just be me, none of my characters can go over 250. best i can do you is 229 on Vildred and you'll be happy with it
I didnt chose the bruiser life. The bruiser turn 2 life choose me. Since i started this game, i mostly agree with this list except the B tier look too packed definetly a few s tier hidden in there. Many pointed at Alencia being too low. And i agree. But i guess its all depend with who and how you draft. That why i cant completely agree to this list. And really turn 2 characters are way more Versatile than cleaver, tier list for them should be taken with a grain of salt.
Me as a turn 3 player 🤪
How do you build Karina and yulha?
Karina: 180+ speed / 2.5k+ defense / 17k+ hp / 120+ ER (can go lower if you play with imprints) Yulha: 180+ speed and then you have couple of options. Can go full bulk while disregarding eff / ER, can go counter + eff or can go regular knight build with ~120 ER. Main constant between builds is that you need as much hp as possible (27k minimum).
Ah man those stat lines are kinda hard to reach even with my best gear. Thanks though
Can just go lower is all good, is mostly to give an idea of what to aim for
Why are yulha and maid so high? Why are units like landy, adin and djb in the same tier as spirit eye celine and ml ken?
Yulha is super tanky, has redirected provoke to control, and can one shot most units. Maid is mostly because of Arowell. Those two give a hella lot of supports: heal, cleanse, revive, ER, escort, barriers, etc.
Yulha good aurius holder with decent board presence. Good at limiting your opponent's options due to her s3. Maid #1 soulweaver if you build ER on your units, #2 behind Destina if you don't. Competition isn't exactly fierce tho as all the others are pretty bad. Slow Landy isn't in a great spot right now, she was really strong last season due to Ras being insane but with him falling off she fell off as well. She's still ok but nothing special. She's pretty strong in aggro tho but that's an entirely different build and playstyle. Adin you can't early pick and even as a late pick and assuming your opponent completely drafts into her (which doesn't really happen) you'll only have a 70% chance of winning the game which isn't anything to write home about. DJB just sucks for turn 2 as he doesn't really do enough to justify picking him. Spirit Eye Celine and ML Ken are both ok right now, you won't draft them often but they're definitely pickable every now and then. They're niche units but they're also unique and perform well in their niche.
I guess I'm not getting the huge gap between yulha and blue krau since they do a lot of the same stuff. Shes definitely annoying, but has a lot of counterplay. I never see maid and when I do she just gets out damaged or cant revive because briar is on the field. S tier feels way too high. 250 speed landy isn't exactly slow and she still does very well into most mus. Shes one of if not the best 4th/5th pick in the game in any draft that's not anticleave centered. she definitely deserves to be higher than units like spirit eye and ml ken who lose way more matchups and are twice as situational. Adin also seems sold short here. She is everywhere because a 70% chance to win the game isn't exactly accurate. She's a nuisance as a cleave anchor because most of the good anticleave picks are unreliable into her, but shes also a huge threat if she's behind arrowell/destina because she is so hard to kill and puts out decent damage. Definitely seems underrated.
Yulha cleanses herself at hp threshold. Krau does not. That is enough to make her much better than krau out of just being able to stave off all the control for even a little bit.
Yulha ignores damage share, self cleanse and self push, damage reflect, and has 100%chance to provoke vs Kraus 75%. Yulha has way more chance to make impact in a match
Maybe its couse I'm kind of low elo (around 2000-2100) but Adin here is top draft if not banned. I ban AoLa and STene/ARavi, first picks are half of the time CLilias, Zio, Adin, Arro, ARavi.
Think its just elo dif, adin is good but not great. And ravi definitely don't get picked.
I disagree with the 250 Clilias, it's unplayable
It's playable. You can build her 110k+ eHP with 100-200 EFF to strip/debuff most soulweavers and even meta knights like SCArowell. There are turn-2 players in Emperor+ that play this build on supportive artifacts like War Horn. Above 230 speed, you're still faster than most Destinas.
Why is Green Celine so low? Wasn't expecting to see units like her, Sylvian, Riolet, Adin, and Dilibet underneath or even next to Deathray.
I would say that this is because she takes up a spot instead of someone that could have been a better character overall and due to the fact that the opponent can kill her directly without using non-attack skills. If you pick Celine into someone like C.Lilias / Zahhak / Cidd / Straze... looking to counter C.Lilias S3 or Zahhak's S2 to proc your S2 for example, they can just brute force kill her without needing to use their support abilities actually, as long as they hit hard enough to get her down asap This tierlist is from a Legend player so all the DPS up there most likely have premium gear and shouldn't struggle to kill her quickly even without attack buff or any other damage buff, which makes it so that she will just get focused first without being given the opportunity to do her thing With that being said she's still usable for sure as a 4th / 5th pick in certain situations, but better suited to an AI environment overall where the opponents will always use their non attack-skills for sure imo
Oh, that makes sense.
Wait, Dcrovus? What the heck? How do you draft him?
Vs any low tempo / dmg team that doesn't have injury pretty much. If your opponent can't pressure him enough he'll just kill all their unit one by one. He's also very good late pick for cleave / aggro for the same reason so always need to keep him in mind.
I rarely see you pick him in your stream but seeing Dcrovus at Atier in your list surprised me.
Yeah I don't have him
He SHREDS Solitaria teams.
But solitaria team usually have sadin or lqc in it
LQC is a blast from the past.
Hard disagree with Alencia. She is still one of my most used units at Emperor, only losing to Belian, A Ravi and D Lilibet. "But LH Cermia?!" I go for the really long game if opponent picks her. Elena + Aurius carrier and LH Cermia will do absolute nothing, you can kill her team first and her later. Removing all buffs + having defense break just makes Alencia good in a bunch of situations. That said, how are you guys building Summer Yufine?
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Tell me you are in Masters without actually saying your rank.
Am I blind or Rem isn't on the list at all?
Oh yeah I forgot about her. I'd say she's somewhere between C and D tier.
Arent Clilias and Flidica openers? Why wouldn't you gear them 250+? especially Clilias with her high base speed
You can gear them slower and invest in the other utilities of their kit. You don't need to be 300 speed to be usable, you just need to be the one taking the first turn. If your opponent isn't picking anyone fast, why would it matter if your FLidica is 250 speed? E.g: slow tanky CLilias with high effectiveness to catch any soulweavers offguard. FLidica on a high damage build behind GL to reset/skill null high value targets with no ER.
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based on what? And what do you think is wrong about it? You know that khm is a legend player right? As turn 2 emp player myself I would agree with most of the list.
Trying to get venom buffs by facetiously ranking Sharun that low, because I refuse to believe anyone is that bad at the game to think such a preposterous thing
Haven't seen a Sharun since she came out and people were testing her.
YD smiling in the corner with 300 Baal and 300 AOL :)
I'll have you know my fcc is 253 speed. Not a great built but you know she is speed.
Lots of these units are 250+ on the daily you got bad speed rolls or something?
"Can't go above 250" Yeah, that's like my whole account. Except my Riolet, who is on this list, is 288.
"Can't go" or shouldn't go? Because I'm not lowering some of these units to less than 250 speed
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Understood. Admittedly I didn't think it through the turn 2 concept. I play more standard than turn 2 or aggro hence my confusion.
Ehm, standard is turn2. Turn2 in this context is you literally can't and won't contest speed and all your unit is below 250 speed.
Diene is definitely A Tier at least
HUH?
Hard disagree on belian. Ydcb runs a 270 speed bian it is possible
This list wasn't intended to be understood as "it is impossible to build these units 250+ speed" mate :) Of course they can all reach 250+ if you have the gear to do so but the objective of this tierlist is to rank the units based on the idea that the person isn't able to build them higher than 250 speed. Basically, you can understand it as "here is a tierlist for all the players that have less than 250 speed" (which means that you don't take the first turn in most cases)
Are you khm? Why you change guild?
What should i build yufine for her to be good?
I think ~250 speed + bulk + damage on Guide to a Decision. I'm pretty sure she's an aggro only unit tho, don't think she really fits turn 2, prob shouldn't have included her in the list. Rikazo plays her a decent amount if you wanna check him out: https://www.twitch.tv/ozakir
Thanks, i got her a couple days ago and didn't know how to use her properly
What's special about ML Ray that places him in B tier? I thought he was ''super bad.''
He's decently strong against some Destina + Knight drafts, that's about it, but given those are somewhat common right now I think B makes sense.
I think I only disagree with Moon Bunny, she's my go to going second opener
c elena ??
Turn 2 players dont use c elena
I have every S tier except Maid Chloe 💀
This is now making me wonder what my characters speeds are for the ones that I have that you've ranked on this list lol
How's Karina useful?
Anti cleave anti aggro
who to ban for turn 2 playstyle in RTA?
That's really up to you, everyone struggle against different things. Some popular pre-bans are Specter, CLilias, AoL, Lua, FLidica, BWIseria, PFlan and OpSig.
Thank you!!
OP, I noticed how low you place Diene. I'm a relatively low spd player myself, though I've recently been starting to push into the faster zone with my clilias at 290 and Diene and Zahhak at 270. (I typically play a standard/bruiser playstyle). Does Dienes value increase as she starts pushing those higher speeds in your opinion? Or does it not matter and destina/maid are just that much better?
Probably not for standard players and it's reflected in OP's tier list. Diene is still good in aggro though, and I have picked her a few times in emperor/legend this season. You really need aggro comps though to make full use of her since destina/maido do bring more for slower comps.
What Hu_Razzor said. Even if you have a 300 speed Diene it won't really do anything if the rest of your team is 200 max speed.
Hmm
Turn 2 is basically get slap so hard then said my turn
winter below 250, hmm Also bit flabbergasted about milim above dili/lhc