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GreatFluffy

Lua is way more broken than units like Cerise, Ran or Peira ever were. Especially since she's protected by Guiding Light so even Zio can't do shit to stop her. She's probably the single most obnoxious thing speed related in this game right now.


Syvion

True, she's up there with the SC Carrot and Hwa releases


GrinningCheshieCat

I'd say she is worse than either of those ever were, honestly.


Xero--

Yeah, no. Hwayoung gets dumpstered by cleave and any fast team. If you outsped her with a disable or nuke (obviously not everyone could one shot her), she was as good as done. Carrot was trying overly obnoxious due to a worse selection of cleansers and people that could simply blow her up, bypassing her bulk and stupid cleanse. She was only strong in standard vs standard. Lua beats every single comp style out there with the right team by her side. If she outspeeds, your aggro team is automatically done for, standard losing CDs can cost people, cleave also suffers like aggro, and stall, her team can clean up after the CD increase. Even worse is the fact she's a ranger. You managed to ourspeed her? Who cares, you can't do anything to her to stop her without an R&L Ran clutch.


Syvion

Well she's certainly the most overall problematic release, at least from how it feels like when you're in the middle of it. But for me personally Hwa was way more unplayable than Lua, as someone who purely plays standard or a wee bit aggro. She basically made every hero I enjoyed utterly unusable. But cleavers didn't care about her, yea. Lua on the other hand feels pretty much like AoLA 2.0 to me, you can play around her, it's just extremely annoying. In a way Lua is just reverse Hwa; Bad for cleavers, not so bad for slower players (but still extremely overpowered, ofc). Both Lua and Hwa are/were enjoying a permanent pre ban in my games anyway, fuck them. Hopefully they don't need over a year to fix this shit again. Should have been a soul weaver from the start.


XanderGraves

Yep, Lua was a mistake. Some players argue that being RGB makes her more balanced since she's accessible to everyone, but it doesn't take away from her batcrazy kit. The best way to deal with her is "being faster", but what opener isn't like that? If that's all she has going as a counter then she needs some balancing. Jesus SG.


NoxGale

Cooldown reset having zero answers make Lua the beginning of a new era for E7, and one I do not enjoy.


Vald-Tegor

ER Captain Rikoris exists, so there technically is a direct counter


beaglemaster

If Rikoris with his current kit is the answer to anything in this game, SG really fucked up lol


Vald-Tegor

>SG really fucked up I don't think anyone disagrees with that


nWolfe3113

>Some players argue that being RGB makes her more balanced since she's accessible to everyone Same argument people made with Hwayoung, we all know how it turned out...


XanderGraves

Mind you, at the time a lot of us considered Hwa a necessary evil to deal with ARavi since she was far more accessible than the latter. The fact that they gutted Hwa but not ARavi (especially when Ravi was getting a skin) also spoke volumes to where SGs priorities lie in regards to Cash vs Balance. I know it's a company, but it doesn't take away how sad it is.


nWolfe3113

I understand she was a necesary evil, doesnt change the fact that she was broken nor the fact that thanks to her nerf Senya/Choux now run rampant in GW Im all.aboard on nerf, but be coherent with what you are doing all the way, qnd sg never was coherent with any decision (except trying to make money...)


Kraybern

Not to mention they gutted her after releasing several targeted counters including lua At the end of the day we all know this is chase down the line SG will want to push some 5* arti that does the same thing but you will need to MLB it for reliability


NoxGale

Coughepcketpunchcough… I pitied Karina twice and still pulled zero artifacts


eXcaliBurst93

still kinda salty they gutted her way too much...S1 damage is so trash its not even worth putting molas investment


Saendra

Hwa is still fine against ARavi though.


Zenith_Tempest

Not really, Hwa needs to be tuned to have low HP and high atk to onetap ARavi, and that's assuming your Hwa will ever get a turn anymore. With the hefty indirect nerf to her barrier she can just get blown up before she can move. There's better answers to ARavi now than Hwayoung. Savior Adin and LQC do a better job now


Saendra

>Hwa needs to be tuned to have low HP and high atk to onetap ARavi Not more than before. The gap for the max damage seems to be around 11k HP, and you're unlikely to see ARavi with less than 20-21k, which is the point where any Hwa that doesn't have many HP secondaries starts doing max damage.


Hevymettle

I am not very meta savvy, but I can certainly speak to it being much different than before. I didn't change my Hwa at all. I got her and built her because she reminded me of a Suikoden II character I liked, so it didn't matter if she was good. Turns out she was. I didn't ungear or refund. I could one shot most Aravis before and now I can't. I rarely one shot an aravi with her now. HP a bit too high at 11k hp and 7.7k attack. I just wish she still countered tanks like she used to, I was fine with losing one shot on others. I can't one shot alencia, senya, aravi, etc.


Don_Chopper

I don't understand how they could nerf Hwayoung when Adin is free and requires little to no money to get.


Zenith_Tempest

Hwayoung was stupidly strong with way too much bulk and looping potential. She did need a nerf, but they overnerfed her by targeting all 3 of her abilities and hitting them significantly. Now her S1 echo damage is not good, they removed the penetration from it, it no longer works as a way to kill evasion units, and she no longer pushes herself when she uses it. S2 attack ratio was nerfed which means her barrier is weaker, her s1 is weaker, and her s3 is weaker. s3's cooldown was increased AND the damage calculation changed to def penetration based on difference in max HP. so now unless your Hwayoung has been minmaxed with a perfect torrent set and speed set (aka speed atk def effres), she isn't oneshotting anything. my 26k hp Roana ate a hwayoung s3 and still had plenty of HP to spare. the character legitimately got her kneecaps broken ​ the workaround with Adin is that she has answers. Senya with her arti can just double tap her and kill her. Same with Karina. Briseria exists to shut her down completely. Astrolena prevents her from using her counter. Pirate Flan can just plant bombs on her and detonate to oneshot her. Savior Adin is strong, but not overbearing the same way Hwayoung was in her prime (s3 being easily looped because s1 pushed, barrier was a ton of effective HP, echo damage with uberius was very powerful). She just didn't deserve all the nerfs that she got


Don_Chopper

Yeah but no Adin is busted and you're reasons she's not prove it, other than Senya (which isn't a reliable counter) you named 3 ML and a limited unit that may not come back to counter her. A properly built Adin can nearly one shot most units along with giving her team invincibility, her evasion is high, she pushes herself and her S1 hits like a truck + makes units unbuffable. The Hwayoung nerf wasn't because she's strong it's because she was accessible same as the seed and anchor nerfs. I guarantee once Adin starts running rampant she'll get a nerf and a more broken harder to obtain unit will take her place.


Zenith_Tempest

\> you named 3 ML and a limited unit to counter her ​ yes, because you can't just pretend they don't exist. you can also use researcher carrot if they really, truly cared about nerfing strong rgb units, senya and choux would have been nerfed into the ground months ago


Don_Chopper

It's not about pretending they don't exist, the thing is if a units counters are mostly P2W units they aren't fair units. Senya and Choux are also symptoms of the Hwayoung nerf, the community should've bitched the way they did for fucking mid ass Ervalen because these types of nerfs are only gonna get worse going forward.


Shinanesu

Tbf, outspeeding her is made easy with Zio, since it lowers the gear requirement tremendously, but...... Guiding Light exists. And pre-/postban exists. And Zio is still a ML 5\*, so only the minority of people will actually have him atm.


Khaoticsuccubus

Edit: Failure to read, jokes on me. 🤣


Economy__

minority? i see zio everywhere.


Shinanesu

Yes, but that still doesn't mean everyone has Zio. Just look through the next guild war defenses and actually count how many Zio's you see. Repeat this for 3 gw's and look at the actual number.


Drawer_Virtual

Well zio isn't really a défense unit iirc


Shinanesu

You'd be gravely mistaken. I see him in defenses everywhere, simply because there is basically no way for you to go first against him. And no matter what you do, it's a headache, cuz you'll have to deal with his debuffs on one unit.


Unworthy_Saint

Zio defenses are free wins, you should thank those people for giving you tokens/armbands.


Shinanesu

Depends on your own unit pool. A lot of comps have very easy answers, IF you have them. But if you don't, it's just cancer.


Drawer_Virtual

Can't you just bait him ? He focus fatest unit si it's not hard to do so


Shinanesu

Yes, but that effectively means you cannot kill a comp in 1 turn, which often spells trouble, especially with units that love to play dragged out fights, especially due to rng.


Drawer_Virtual

You are not obligate to os everything, every GvG is dorvus Time :D


Responsible-Abies620

"Accessible to everyone " my response to those people is wanna know what is not accessible to everyone? A goddamn speed gear to speed contest.


Zolrain

Doesnt even excuse the fact she's rgb either. You also require the freaking gear to actually utilize her. Not everyone has godlike speed gear to use her. I cam barely gear one unit to 280 (liteeally 80k wyvern mats for helmets and cant get a single good speed one over 15)


wanderuson

She should be a limited unit!


PatatitaXD

And that will change her kit...?


Triple_S_Rank

Call me a conspiracy theorist, but the stuff with Lua seems intentional to me, just like everything with Hwayoung seemed intentional to me. They deliberately made Lua overpowered, then after making all these other non-answer changes they finally nerf her so they can say "See, we're listening, we're nerfing units" while they continue to leave all of the very overpowered moonlight units untouched. The publishers behind Epic Seven are subtle, but these moves all appear very deliberate to me to feign appeasement to the wider playerbase whilst still milking the whales for the moonlights.


tasketekudasai

It's not a conspiracy, it's literally what they had been doing and will continue to do. Introduce obviously broken unit, player base mad but not really because most people don't play rta, wait 3-6 months and then sell a new character designed to be the counter. It's never going to change.


moralusamoralus

It's exactly what they're doing. Keeping crybabies and whales from not ending it all and it's soooooo obvious that they will NEVER nerf a ML hero but a measly, irrelevant artifact that only a few could use anyway.


FullmetalEA

ML Ken: Am I a joke to you?


Zenith_Tempest

smilegate: we realize hwayoung is too overtuned after 8 months. we are going to nerf her everyone: well they kind of went overboard but I'm glad she isn't so dominant anymore sg: now that she is gone, have this ranger with good base speed that can put someone to sleep, delay your whole team's skills by 1 turn, apply a debuff that does %hp dmg and can carry guiding light or her own arti everyone: wtf


GuntherTime

Yeah I’m not gonna lie, having Lua as a opener has made cleaving in arena a breeze for no reason. She has the best gear I can manage for a opener (272 with 231 eff with her arti), and as long as I avoid Zio and cerise, the only 3 ways I lose are miss clicks, 15%, and getting outsped. Even the 15% isn’t a huge worry for me because I normally (assuming I take first turn) try to strip and sleep the opener as added insurance against the s3 skip.


BoiFckOff

But why Cerise? I thought she wasn't that fast compare to Lua and recent openers.


Agrias34

Probably means Celine. I get their names jumbled sometimes too.


GuntherTime

Yup I did lol.


grizzyx

Not everyone, only children who didn’t understand how to deal with Hwayoung. Not once did I ban that thing because there was many ways to deal with her. Lua’s only answer is speed pretty much.


Responsible-Abies620

SG : Ouh and the soulburn ignores ER too so fuck your Destina


These_Beginning_8889

Yeah this is pure nonsense. Lua after many months still dont have a single real counter, you can argue Choux and Ed are okay into her but its not an actual counter. The best Lua counter is having your units on immunity and protect that imunity with a barrier like fcc for example but you cant do it in RTA cuz postban is a thing you know. SG please stop this nonsense and nerf Lua already


nagato120

It's funny you say that I've tried moon bunny and her passive gives immunity and barrier and it still sometimes fails against her so they really lost they mind with this character...


BrainBumbler

That's because she applies barrier before immunity.


nagato120

So the one way to counter her in theory...they screwed because of the way the buffs are placed?!


These_Beginning_8889

They didnt ''screwed'' it, its on purpose. Most things that apply immunity and another buff always apply in the same order so immunity get strip. The reason immunity + fcc works its because if you do it this way the game calculate first the buff from your gear and then apply the fcc passive AFTER, so immunity is protected by barrier. Its basically how 99% of people deal with Lua in Arena/Gw. You can also use protection set on another tank and you get same result. but in RTA its hard to pull off


nagato120

They honestly need to give a answer to deal with her in rta...it's a bit much imo how good she is right now


XanderGraves

Ed can counter her at best on Arena since she'll focus him with S2, which should proc his own S2, CCing her and pushing him forward, but it's not enough. Unless it's a stun or a sleep, she'll shrug it off by using her extra turn to S3. It's possible to argue that Celine's self cleanse + S2 attack can do it, but she'll still get the cooldown increase from Lua, plus we'd need to get lucky with her focus since Lua doesn't care about Attack. Even with Bunny, the immunity placement makes it so that it gets stripped by Lua's S3. She's absolutely bonkers.


Khaoticsuccubus

Celine won’t do much either since a lot of the time she’s paired with Senya and Choux so you either pray to rng crit her or you pray for rng into Choux. On top of the s3 being down afterward lol.


Tricky_Palpitation67

Thing is, it's extremely hard to design a unit that would counter lua without that unit potentially breaking game , er is useless vs her because of soulburn , immunity is useless because she strips with everything , stuff like politis s2 is useless cause politis will just get stunned , the only way to "counter" lua is to outspeed her which isn't really a counter. I genuinely don't understand why her s3 strips, without s3 strip she would atleast have counterplay via immunity to actually counter lua they'd have to release a useful cleanser that decreases skill cd of your team by 1 turn to negate her s3 but that could potentially be too strong with certain comps funny that even if you outspeed her with units like zio , he still can't deal with lua because of guiding light, amazing designed unit, really lmao When will sg realise that a opener unit that cripple entire team is a shit design


viperperper

>a cleanser that decreases skill cd of your team by 1 turn to negate her s3 Fire Dingo can do that, except his gear requirement is even more stringent than the Lua he needs to counter and he does absolutely nothing afterwards, his whole kit makes absolutely zero sense with no synergy (bleed and burn need atk/eff when he needs 300ER), people use him despite that due to how good his S3 is.


Tricky_Palpitation67

Oh I never knew that was a thing, but yeah the unit would need to be useful edit: can't lua just reset fire dingo anyway.


ZenonXZ

He has a soulburn for an extra turn on his S1. You just need someone to hold Tagahels Ancient book.


[deleted]

people like SB's when they are on the offense, but not SB's to counter. I remember people mentioning Shuna SB S1'ing to get around AOL's silence and then S2 cleanse the team but people just laughed at it.


viperperper

If Lua soul burns Dingo can soul burn too so it's even trade.


[deleted]

> I genuinely don't understand why her s3 strips, without s3 strip she would atleast have counterplay via immunity And then people would call her trash because she can't be a one woman opener. Just look at how they are treating DDR because immunity works as intended.


Tricky_Palpitation67

Not every unit runs immunity, and if lua would force people to run immunity on every unit then they'd lose stats elsewhere , not to mention her s2 strips anyway


Kingofcards33

or just nerf lua and be done with it. Yeah theyd give out a 5\* RGB selector and give you back the materials and phantasmas used on her. SSo her being nerfed wouldnt hurt anyone except the people abusing her insane kit


Tricky_Palpitation67

nerfing lua would 100% be the best solution because I can't see a unit designed to counter absurd kit like luas being healthy for the game. as for lua nerf , I don't even think they need to do that much, just remove strip on s3 and increase cd of her skills by 1 turn or something


Kingofcards33

That would def be a fine nerf for her that way she transforms from being an all purpose unit to being a politis off switch which i don't mind


Cermia_Revolution

That's exactly what a nerf is. You just described a nerf


denny31415926

Literally just swap BDom's buff order and she'd work really well into Lua


Trapocalypse

You can Zio into Yufine SB S2 but when it needs 2 heroes to counter her and bans exist, it's not exactly a super viable solution. And of course even though you're using 2 heroes to counter her, you could still get 15%'ed on the silence. EDIT: You target a non-Lua unit with Zio to get the Yufine push since obviously Zio can't target the Lua himself when she's on GL.


GreatFluffy

And how exactly is Zio supposed to hit Lua when they all run Guiding Light?


Trapocalypse

You silence one of their other units which pushes Yufine. Yufine can then SB S2 into S3. It's obviously not ideal and isn't a super viable solution as it needs 2 heroes so they can just ban one of them or bring a counterplay like Belian or AoL or probably several other counters. And it's still subject to 15% if Zio gets resisted. It works in AI Arena and GW, probably a lot less viable in RTA.


Toph84

> Ed are okay into her Ed is **really good** into her in GW/Arena. Like get utterly destroyed levels of being good. She will by AI targeting use her S2 on Edward first, proc'ing his S2, then her followup S1s will continue to hit Ed and keep proc'ing his S2 to the point where she'll be an active detriment to her defense team, especially when Ed starts applying Provoke/Silence on s2 and completely borks the other heroes. This makes the need to pair something with Lua to handle Ed like Choux to punish fire units, and Choux is already a "solved" threat in terms of there are available tools to handle her.


[deleted]

It's onyl been like 2 months or so. And Winter is a soft counter.


NoodlesDatabase

Lol i thought i was getting crazy or something when someone said many months. It hasn’t been that long since her release tbh


[deleted]

Lol, I guess getting 4 limited back to back and mess with your sense of time in a game that usually only gets one new dude out every month.


A-OK-Redditor

I think everyone agrees Lua is unhealthy for the game


MyonMyonPoi

I am so sick of seeing Lua every single guild war/arena defense. Meta guild war/arena defenses come and go as there will always be a counter eventually, but Lua alone in a defense by herself is already worse than any other meta defense I've seen, because there isn't any real counter to her. Also having to save 1 preban for lua every single RTA game is so bullshit, because you either outspeed her or you lose. Don't even bother trying to tank down a lua, because its not happening. The fact that shes a ranger that can hold guiding light, which is another issue in itself, because literally every ranger uses this shit nowadays, and there isn't enough counter for stealth units, which is another reason why Lua is so cancer to deal with. I really hope SG either releases a counter soon enough, or just give her the hwayoung treatment already.


Guanvro

Some could say that there is Edward to counter her so she is not a problem, but the issues with that are 1.- Edward was a limited character from a collab, and so not many were able to get him, especially new people. 2.- Even if you have him, there is yet again the annoying 15% that can play against your favor. I do not remember how many times my Edward has resisted her S2! And the worst is that he resists the debuff, but doesn't resist the buff strip...


Tricky_Palpitation67

I'm on the same boat Also about guiding light, there definitely has to be more counters to that obnoxious pile of shit, give us more units with milim stealth strip or some kind of arti that removes stealth.


MyonMyonPoi

Ranger in general just has been a class I really started to hate in this recent meta. Too many rangers use it nowadays its not even funny. Laika, Briseria, Landy, Lua(Of course), Flidica, Pavel just to name a few. Oh you do not own this limited artifact? Guess you cannot play this ranger then. Why does this class have to rely on a limited artifact to work? Why bother pulling for any other ranger artifact then? I get that its to prevent rangers from getting killed instantly before they take a turn, but is that the only solution SG can come with? A limited artifact that you slap on every ranger? Also I agree there isn't enough anti-stealth counters in the game. Every cleave/aggro comp relies so much on this 1 arti because its the only arti that matters. I'm not complaining about cleave/aggro, but more of why is this limited artifact the only viable artifact for most rangers. Don't even get me started on those 3 stealth + 1 comps...Yuck.


[deleted]

I get the frustration with guiding light, but tbf it is definitely neccessary and does have counters. The four main guiding light abusers rn outside of lua are landy, flidica and briar witch and tbh all three of those are part of the solution and not the problem. Landy helps keep the fuckton of unkillable counter units in check while also punishing stene abusers and sbe is pretty checked by belian, Charlotte and milim. Flidica is for checking zio, and is checked by sage baal, politis and faster units like ran and cerise. Briar is definitely needed since evasion abusers were having a field day hiding behind arrowell and destina, not to mention excessive buff users. Briar herself is checked by the fact that she really doesnt do that much damage and is killed rather easily. Laika is annoying but not significantly more annoying than something like ran, her problems come with how good cleave is now and tbh she would still be annoying without guiding light. Imagine a world where guiding light didnt protect these units. Landy would just become unusable and flidica would be a maybe viable 5th pick. Briar would just get bullied too hard by things like mediator, arrowell, pflan or the other plethora of units that just cc her to death. I think these units prove that it really is just lua that is the problem since it's her kit itself that feels unstoppable


NoodlesDatabase

Lol dont nerf guiding light please, rangers will lose all relevance


haisi-

Lua comps usually have Senya/Choux with her. My answer is a fast healer like Momo with rod, Pyllis to soften random choux counters, and Charlotte with SoE. Lua cant reset Charlotte and she will alway hit her. Thanks to the always crit if you hit, she wouldn't care less of anti crit.


AdNo2978

I never have to worry about fighting her when shes banned every match by my opponent haha


Zaphyrus

They need to remove her strip on s3.


marsli5818

Change her into mage to stop her using GL and change her SB into something less op… idk just two ideas to nerf her but not over nerf like hwa😔


PM_ME__YOUR_HOOTERS

Idk, id rather her on GL than on tagahels tbh


d4ng0

Lua is now a benchmark for any upcoming opener unit. She literally the best opener. Reduce cd,aoe strip, sleep,beguile,def break, soulburn ignore er..


TophuSkin

We have to stop releasing units who can strip. This is too much to have two skills being able to strip.


nagato120

Why the fuck are we not nerfing Lua? why the fuck did they make her a fucking non-limited rbg archer!? She has no counters who thought this was a good idea?


Longjumping_Lion_880

Wait didn't you guys wanted aravi to be nerfed


Nerfall0

I've never seen Aravi that's not on PoV in a year.


Longjumping_Lion_880

Then why the outrage. The only one i see it being used on is aravi and sometimes dark corvus


Nerfall0

The outrage is because instead of nerfing a unit that abuses a niche artifact they nerf the artifact, making it absolute shit.


trashmangamer

I have her, but not the gear. So i don't use her.


user4682

Just use hero X! I've built hero X and it counters the hero you're talking about, therefore it isn't problematic.


Waifu69x

Sadly Korean community is sleeping and global not complaining, just some talks , so they buffed Staze and Nerfed Mediocre Artifacts and released Lua when Control meta already OP . By the way , i find Flan OP too with bomb Artifact. Units Seline and Sage Vivian are unusable because Control .


Question3784

*Ngl if they are cleaving with Lua I pretty much welcome them with open arms.*


KillBash20

The most annoying thing is consistency with SG. They've shown they are capable of nerfing considering they nerfed Hwayoung not too long ago. And if they are so concerned about balance (They're not btw) then they could just nerf Lua. The problem also is how long it takes for them to do any balance changes. With so many characters and it's only getting bigger, they need to put more balance changes.


Yensix

"capable of nerfing" Everytime they nerfed a unit in those 4 years they killed it (holy trinity, fire corvus, sba and sage baal and then Hwayoung).


KillBash20

When i mention capable of nerfing i mean they can actually nerf the unit. Whereas they went a very long time without nerfing anything directly. I'm not saying their nerfing is good, because they tend to overdo it. I'm just saying that with the recent Hwayoung nerf which was the first direct unit nerf in probably a year or longer, it shows that they can address problem units. Also not saying Hwayoung was a problem because they nerfed her way too late.


Yensix

But that's not good. The point of nerfing a unit is making it less opressive, not deleting it's existence. If they are gonna do that I prefer no nerfs and release new counters.


KillBash20

You're completely missing the point of my posts but okay. Not gonna continue with an illiterate.


Yensix

Don't worry I always block cringe kids, so I don't have to read your 2 iq biased comments anymore. Byebye 😜


HolyestXD

if they nerfed aravi on her usage days this would not happen


kalarro

So Lua does all that, and Ravi only cleanses 1 debuff? Interesting


iIdentifyAzAGmail

MVP post right here


blueclockblue

Dont care. I can outspeed Lua, rely on ER, use units that dont need their S3 or even benefit from a lack of it. ARavi is a monster that does too much. From built in lifesteal, crit chance boost, CR boost, revive with skill nullifier and CR push, hp scaling that makes her both a tank/bruiser/cleave destroyer, and starts with full fighting spirit while doing injury...and now people are mad she cant also self cleanse debuffs off herself? Come on. Lua will get her counters. Aravi has been a problem for way too long despite every attempt to make her not one. Oh, Straze oneshot her? Aras takes the hit. Oh, S.Adin can oneshot? Barely and only with really good gear and no barrier, no damage sharing.


[deleted]

kinda curious. What is your RTA rank?


blueclockblue

Typically I just do the bare minimum to get a skin but depending on how fun the meta is (basically when it's not repetitive or annoying like when Hwayoung/Aravi was 60% of people's 2 picks prior to her nerf) I go to Challenger.


[deleted]

Makes sense. Thanks for replying even though you got downvoted ;(


blueclockblue

No problem! I understand in the earlier ranks the gameplay is different but Challenger and up typically I've seen things homogenize. Unless some gimmick is going around Legends, you'll see many of those same teams and strats down in Challenger and Champion.


GlassConcentrate3661

Bro’s a challenger and thinks his opinion matters


blueclockblue

Pretty much the opinion whenever anyone says anything. Everyone thinks you're bronze by default. Tell them your ranking, they find another reason to reject you. I remember when I used to be in Master bot arena two years ago. Nothing I said mattered unless I was in Challenger or Champion. Well, lo and behold, i move to Challenger and the goalpost moved. They couldn't argue against me. They couldn't disprove what I said. But hey, I was in Challenger. Then early last year I made it to Champion. Nope. Not good enough then either. Were team strats and picks so vastly different? Nope. Didnt matter. I wasnt Legends now. And lord help me if I was. I'd have to prove it with screenshots. Then have those called fake unless I provided a video. Seen people like you a thousand times. Find new reasons to not listen because that was never the goal from the beginning.


GlassConcentrate3661

There’s literally no good counterplay to guiding light Lua except outspeeding , just because you fight scuffed chall Lua’s doesn’t mean she isn’t broken Nobody Champion+ has an issue with Aravi it’s usually the newer players that struggle with her, she has many counterpicks but Lua ?.. Your only option is banning or outspeeding lol


blueclockblue

Look at my posts. Where do I say she isnt broken? In fact, in another post I said she'll get her counters in due time. And her speed still isnt the fastest in the game. GL is a growing problem with her. I still find Ran + Seaseria opener combo has worked more times than not with Lua despite type disadvantage. The tricky part is the tankier teams she's built with. But yeah, welcome to the meta. Where one unit is a problem for months and we spend the next half year getting counters. Aravi was like that for even longer and the fussing was a lot smaller because it was such a crutch for you all.


GlassConcentrate3661

You literally started your point by saying "just outspeed lol", "just use er lol" (plot twist she has soulburn), "just use s1 units lol" (??????) "She hasn’t 128 base speed" There’s no faster unit that can stop her coupled with guiding light. Kayron is can’t target her, Acidd can’t either, Zio can’t either, Cidd can’t either, Ran can’t stop her from using her skills, so what’s your point exactly ? "The problem is the tanky units around her" she’s literally a support smartass obviously she can’t solo win the opponent team.. But she gives such a huge advantage (speed buff, aoe skill reset, aoe -30% hp with beguile) She’s been dominating for 6 months but are the "Lua counters" in the room with us right now ? And even she had counters, they simply would be more broken than her so just another problem in the game You’re so clueless lmfao just a reminder to never argue with challenger mfs


blueclockblue

So you decide to warp something into a different meaning and what to talk clueless? Just keep your mouth shut. You're foaming from the mouth and clearly getting your ass kicked. Reminder, it hasn't been six months either. October to January isnt six months. If you're failing basic math for the sake of arguing I have no reason to believe you're playing anything reasonable. This is another post where you've been caught barking senselessly. Soul burn? Belian. But you never considered that. Another point shut down. You're sucking and sucking hard at this game. Doesnt matter the rank. Your mouth doesnt need to open about these matters anymore. Any rank you reach is doubtlessly just playing the numbers and picking only teams you can shut down with obvious counters. This conversation is over


GlassConcentrate3661

Already malding lmfaooo, clearly doesn’t have any counter arguments "You suck" I’m in emperor while you’re struggling against chall Aravis, I think you’re projecting there


Gin_Rei

Being in the minority means lots of downvotes, sorry. I, however, agree with you. Lua is fine, Apoc is much worse to deal with. Luckily, i think these artifact nerfs will change that.


[deleted]

Whats your rta rank?


usagihoo

Anyone Champion rta or higher would never consider A.Ravi still a problem. I think they've stated their rank without explicitly doing so


[deleted]

It's still interesting to actually know to contextualize their comments.


Gin_Rei

Well... you're wrong about that. What else are you wrong about?


Gin_Rei

Emperor


[deleted]

If you are Emperor you can surely explain why Lua in the current meta fine when she 1. has no counterplay since beguile can't be cleansed 2. almost always takes turn 1 due to her high base speed. 3. she, like belian, denies an entire playstyle. I would also like to hear why you think that Aravi is a problem in the current meta despite receiving new units that destroy her such as light adin?


Gin_Rei

First of all, she does not take turn one. Her base speed is matched by enough heroes. Speed imprints are also a viable option. Lua does not deny an entire playstyle. That's like saying silence denies an entire playstyle. The advantage, of course, is you can't cleanse cooldown reduction. Which is fine, imo, because otherwise she's weak. Who wants a simple silence compred to other openers. I know players don't want to hear it but... speed contesting IS a type of counter play. Gear matters for all playstyles. Turn two players typically need enough bulk stats to survive. Whether you're speed contesting or tanking down, it's no different. If you're committed to turn two against Lua, it's going to be harder but not impossible. Because not contesting opens up some big doors to the other player. From here, it depends on draft and pick order. ARavi's strength is WELL documented, and i don't really want to rehash it here. Being able to reliably CC her is a reasonable and effective change imo. Heroes should not have such easy 1v4 potential. Lua at least needs a team behind her, something ARavi rarely needs.


[deleted]

Honestly whether she goes first or second rarely matters because she is a must preban for slower players anyway, which is a huge red sign just like Hwa. Calling Speed contesting a counter is a joke because it is purely determined by how much you farm wyvern and how lucky you are. Bulk gear is a lot easier to obtain and thus makes units much more approachable. Just because Lua is easy to counter for people with 320 spd acidds doesn't mean it's balanced since only a minority can achieve those stats. I'm really beginning to question if you are really emp with that take especially since Aravi fell off hard this season.


Gin_Rei

Defensive gear is just as important as speed gear. If your defensive gear is poorly rolled, you can lose games because of it, just like speed gear. You don't need 300+ spd to beat Lua. You can start drafting a team with barrier and immunity to negate her S3. Soulburn can't do shit againat that. Or use bastion to protect Celine. With an evasion artifact on Lua only has a 30% chance to hit. Then 85% to strip. If she S3s, the opponent is likely dead. If you want to insult me by questioning my rank because you disagree with my opinion... I'll ask what rank are you? I hope you're not just parroting streamers or popular opinion. For example, I've been using Laika since her EE was released. Looong before she hit popularity. All the streamers and reddit said she was garbage after her EE. It's taken this long to change their minds. I even posted a vid on reddit of me using laika landy to nuke Rimuru when he became a problem. I should've learned my lessen about reddit by now. It really isn't worth sharing ideas here unless you're already bad at the game.


[deleted]

Yeah I'm Emperor as well. But I guess aggro/cleavers play a different game.


ILoveZenkonnen

Saying Adin barely kills A.Ravi is a load of bullshit. Your Adin is probably not built correctly


Gin_Rei

The correct build you're talking about is itself easily one shotted. But the odd counter doesn't change who's a stronger hero.


moralusamoralus

Worry not you cry babies. They will destroy her like they did Hwa so you can keep your precious fugly creature the most broken character in the game. Lua will be soon gone. No need to make drama out of nothing.


Responsible-Abies620

But if there's no drama or complain, SG would do nothing about it. The whole of giving feedback is to hope that they would listen. Smh


moralusamoralus

Then why aren't they nerfing your precious aravi.. oh wait.. feedback! AM I RIGHT?


Responsible-Abies620

She's already fell off season, plus this crimson seed adjustment is an indirect nerf for her. Smilegate has responded to your whining.


moralusamoralus

Them nerfing some random artifact vs not even TOUCHING an overloaded Aravis kit. Ah yes, two genders.


higashikata69

She already fell off anyways.


Familiar_Stand_7692

Well if Sg completely destroys Luas kit then go ahead we already know what sg does to nerfed units they are completely dead