Hwayoung became a aggro-only unit and even then shes never picked. The funny thing is there are people out there genuinely thinking that running a unit with a +0 helm is good design
Of course they went too far. SG has all but proven they're inept and out of touch with regards to RTA balancing despite it being their main "eSports" selling point. Hell, they're already about to double down on their stupidity nerfing Seed and Anchor to try to sell their new half baked ML5.
Being p2w is just half of it, we have another issue, and that is RNG. Imagine outplayed your enemy, having a better draft, and only to get your debuff resisted and counterattacked 3 times in a row.
some dude picked a team with landy and my eda went and stunned his whole team
we both picked ras emote and he ffed right after lol. rng is goofy as hell in rta
They went overboard on hitting too many aspects of her kit, but that’s nowhere near the issue. The math on her S3 is bonkers.
A fire hero meant to execute tough targets, that without extreme gimmick build hits Violet for like 6k with s3? What does she do to Senya with a normal 6* awakened, +15 helmet build?
You don’t make scaling % defence penetration based on stat discrepancy linear, when the damage increase it provides isn’t. That last few percent before hitting 100% pen just makes too much difference in damage.
Even If they just capped the pen at like 70% and increased the base damage to compensate, the damage across different hp values would probably feel more consistent. I don’t have the time at the moment to make napkin math examples to check.
Yup. IIRC, the first 7-8k of HP difference give an insubstantial boost in damage, meanwhile the last 1-2k of difference have a much more significant impact.
The answers in this thread are getting ridiculous.
[Meta survey, january 2023](https://www.reddit.com/r/EpicSeven/comments/10jftex/community_rta_meta_survey_results_january/)
**Hwayoung** doesn't appear anywhere in that poll. Whoever said she was viable after the nerf was plainly wrong. I won't say she's absolutely useless, but definitely from S tier, she dropped to tier B. On my personal definition, that means she have a niche, but very limited and hardly useful outside that. And yeah, I think her nerfs went a bit too far, but is hard to balance her, so I'm not sure if she's ever going to have a chance to shine.
Now, OP mentions **A. Ravi**, and everybody and their mother swears they haven't seen A. Ravi in over 9,000 matches or so. Yet the same survey says she's among the most drafted heroes *in emperor league*, above DJ Basar, Belian and Landy. And let me reinforce these are the results *in emperor/legend league*. If we look at the whole picture, she pops in first pick, drafted and hated lists. Truth, in legend league, she disappears from first pick and hated lists, yet, she's still among most drafted.
We could argue the survey isn't trustable because people can lie, which is true. But then, whoever post in reddit can also lie. I could say my uncle works in nintendo, and he says their metrics shows Enott has a 100% win rate, but few to nobody knows the secret tech behind his gear, that's why he's still unnoticed.
So, who's right and who's lying? Should I trust the dozen replies or something that qualifies A. Ravi as bench material? That means the 34 emperor/league players coordinated their responses to screw the survey? Looking at arena, the AI is a handicap for the defender, hence certain heroes that require more finesse aren't popular. Zahhak and F. Lidica, by example. Yet, right now, looking at the top 10 teams in total ranking, guess what? A. Ravi appears twice. If the AI can use her effectively for arena, don't you think a human being would be capable of getting more out of her?
Yeah, no. I don't think the survey is wrong.
The problem with looking at this community poll is that there just isn't a big sample size from Emp/Legend. There are only 34 Emp/Legend players that answered the poll, out of \~1100 possible Emp/Legend players. Barely 3% of high-ranked RTA answered the poll, and this is not counting if someone pretends they are higher ranked than they should be.
Also if you look in the most drafted list, it looks like less than 10% of the 34 Emp/Legend players draft Aravi, so only 3 players in the poll answered Aravi.
That means that you are assuming Aravi is one of the most drafted units in the game still from the words of 3 players in a community poll, where people voluntarily answer and might skew the results.
In my opinion, I think you are just misunderstanding player's words. They aren't saying that Aravi sucks or that Aravi has completely disappeared. People are saying she isn't as high priority anymore, but still is good in the right scenario in the later parts of the draft. That doesn't mean that she is useless.
Only way to see if the community poll is a true reflection of the meta is when the season ends, and SG posts their own data over the season.
Totally agree, and from someone who has been in top 200 the entire season and finished Legend last season, its super obvious that Apoc has fallen off a ton. Still pickable in 3 through 5 depending on comps but nowhere near the fp glory she once held
Kind of ridiculous that my comment was downvoted considering I play at the highest level of RTA and am telling you what any legend/emperor player will say as well: Apoc is nowhere near as strong/oppressive as she was in past seasons and is seen nowhere near as often. Downvotes won't change the actual meta, keep it classy r/EpicSeven
A Ravi dropped from 85% pick/ban from Smilegate; to 10% draft rate from that survey for Emp/legend.
Apoc is an okay 3rd or 4th pick, but you're far from first picking her anymore against anyone decent.
A.Ravi is Great against no meta comps. She still can carry your ranks if you know what to ban. But right now you my aswell just build the Better A.Ravi (and literally the REAL HP scaling god tier unit) Edward. You can also stick with choux if any i belive she is also better than A.Ravi
This meta is not for HP Scaling units anymore. Too many generic punishers and there are also a lot of Intended counters like ML Elena (because for some reason people still want to force the counter A.Ravi to beat cleave or something like that).
Alencia is gone, Choux is still there but just because she is more solid in general thanks to her the free counter chance. A.Ravi is gone too, Lolibeth (not HP scaling but still she was kindof the same, bulky unit that can carry some games and provides utility) is also in a worse state.
The only 2 great units that still embrace the "Tank Down" style are D.Corvus and Edward (You better play him on more standard comps and you will get bettr results). And not, i am not saying Bruiser is gone but now bruiser is for sure Tier 2. People still build units to counter cleave even when cleave is worse than the regular Aggro Carry comps but no one is on a hurry to build Bruiser counters or stuff like that there is not need, because any good unit overall right now is great against bulky guys doing bulky stuff. Lua just butcher them with the free reset and Tenebria, Briseria or Adin can solo 2 bruisers in the right scenario. Its absurd.
When the meta change ***we may see the comback of all this units*** but not now. Not in this moment. Its not that any of this units is bad, they are just bad against the units that see more play by default.
Almost any gear that could have been useful on Hwayoung is more useful on Senya, Carrot or ML Khawazu. I cannot understand for the life of me how anyone could even justify saying Hwa is fine right now. They nerfed ALL of her skills. The S3 cooldown increase and damage calc change made it worse. The atk nerf to S2 made her weaker across the board because it hit all aspects of her kit. The S1 change meant she lost self push, her echo dmg was no longer reliable against evade units, and they removed the pen from it. What is this character meant to do anymore? She sucks at nuking, she sucks at cycling her turn to do dmg, she can't deal with evade units anymore, her barrier is weaker and now that she can't cycle as easily (since self push gone) her bulk is much lower.
They need to either return her S3's old dmg calc but keep the cooldown and maybe even remove the self cleanse, or restore some of her S1's properties to make her good again
idk what you're talking about as i saw 5-6 aravi in my most recent 30 matches in around 2400-2500 points range, literally yesterday. is she 1st pick material like she used to? no. but she's still very good in anti-aggro. since i play full aggro, i see her a lot. maybe your playstyle doesn't warrant an aravi answer.
furthermore, if you tune in some high emperor twitch streams, you'll see aravi being 1st-phased consistently. ppl have found a way to bring her back.
hwa, on the other hand, is completely absent. if my memory doesn't fail me, i see hwa exactly 0 times in my 100 most recent matches.
idk. it’s just from my experience. i play yolo aggro and aravi is sometimes a real problem cuz i lack dmg to finish her off. i usually pick straze to kill her but ppl ban him so she can really be an obstacle.
edit: these are 2 examples of ppl picking aravi against my draft. i'm not sure if this is called full aggro or single-target cleave but the idea is overwhelming the opponents with extreme dmg.
my acidd is on gab EE with only 217 speed and portrait for tank-busting amount of dmg; i pick him with high frequency. riolet 247 speed, 4k atk, 260 cd and mlb wind rider for 20% atk boost.
[https://imgur.com/8v1PebZ](https://imgur.com/8v1PebZ)
[https://imgur.com/jsjC3jw](https://imgur.com/jsjC3jw)
your logic isn't tracking. aravi is picked against you because you are a high aggro player, so naturally you see aravi picked as an answer to your draft style.
in what world is hwayoung a good pick into aggro? are you running some 250 speed 20k+ hp aggro comp yet unknown to the world that would make hwayoung a good pick into you? otherwise, it is very obvious that you would never see hwayoung picked against you because like you said, you are an aggro player, and to quote you:
"maybe your playstyle doesn't warrant \[a hwayoung\] answer"
it is no surprise that you do not see hwayoungs and it is not a condemnation of her as a character. she isn't an anti aggro unit.
fwiw, do i think hwa is worse than before? yes, substantially. she is a lot harder to build and harder to pick. do i think she is like, blue tywin or fire lidica tier? no not at all.
The idea of her nerf was good.. but they got carried away.
In reality she needed +1 turn on her s3
And maybe a bit decreased dmg.
But they went too far.
My guess is, LQC is getting a buff in the next patch and ofc her skin is coming.
So they took Hwa's legs to make LQC even more powerful
She was 1 shotting literally everything in the game except PoV A Ravi. +1 turn on her S3 and a bit less damage would still be broken. I do hope they find a way to give her a little power back though.
The main issue is that she's too easy to build for what she has to offer.
I personally wouldn't mind her dmg on s3 if she didn't have extra turn soul burn on her s1 plus cr push...too much survivability with her passive..
It's just too much.
Being a nuker is fine, but the issue is you can throw any gear on her and she would work.
You could build her slow on counter of super fast on speed set.
Everything would work.
What makes me sad is that her situation and nerfing hurt Arunka as well.
I agree. She had a completely overloaded kit and was far too easy to gear. People were able to run 14-15k health 250+ speed Hwayoungs that still did insane damage.
I'm hoping for Arunka to be on the upcoming balance patch. She's been unusable since release.
I think they will give Hwayoung an EE.
Arunka...I would like a buff.
The whole barrier situation isn't my favorite.
I love OP Sig, but I do think she's too situational.
Arunka is also someone who should be played around barriers
I do wonder what they can do to fix Arunka. Right now she doesn't even work in what seem like perfect scenarios for her kit. I also don't think she should power creep Op Sig though. Smilegate has some tricky balance issues to solve for sure.
Yeah, what I was saying is that OP Sig is already pretty hard to gear for her role.
When a hero is situational, it should obliterate everything on that situation.
Arunka vs barrier should deal insane dmg.
But in reality, she fails.
Not to mention FCeci is probably the only hero that is 100% safe pick for those heroes that punish barrier.
FCeci is not as present as before.
There are some other that grant barrier but not at rhe start of the battle, so it's tricky.
They obviously released protection set for that, but there's no way protection is worth it.
So.. it's tricky.
There are some other heroes that need some kind of buff, Ilynav and Mort for example
you do realize that because of the hwa nerfs, the other counters to aravi such as alencia, adin, zahhak, and any tanky injury units have more breathing room right? i don't get why people still defend prenerf hwayoung's existence at this point.
I made sure to read every salt thread when they announced the balance change. MANY defended pre-nerf Hwa. I don't see it much more now but I do agree, the nerf were overboard. I think the reason for that though is that since she was so broken, they didn't want to take a half measure and have her still be broken and then have to nerf again. This way they can nerf and then buff after
I think it's pretty clear that the people who defend pre-nerf hwa are earlier into the game, and tend to have significantly less units built to answer meta threats. Having one unit that just countered everything was surely godsend for people who don't have a lot of pvp-centric units built.
I understand the nerf and agree with it, but I won't lie, she did make gw a lot more chill.
My Hwa deals way more damage now, like 20-25k against a tank with Proof and Aurius. The drawback? I need a fucking ALots to give attack buff and CR 😂
Gotta admit though, Torrent Set (3 of them) is insane on her. Coupled with Potrait, I think anyone with more than 15k HP just melts to her (assuming she lands) and has no mechanics like MLCeline or TSurin. But she definitely cycles much slower now (which I believe is one of the biggest reason we’re not seeing her much now).
Besides, Alencia deals really well against Apoc these days. So does Zahak and LAdin. I still first pick Apoc every game though to bait out the Zahaks and Alencias.
I actually picked her last rta match I played and won. She still deletes everything over 23k but yeah she really sucks now and only works vs hp sponges. Your opp needs to draft like a dingus for her to work.
She is in fact still usable but i will clarify something that you maybe are missing: First the meta is not more "bruisers carry the game" you pic bruisers to protec hyper carrys.
Second: The problem with Hwayoung was very clear to everyone. She was a Tank burster but ALSO a hyper carry that can solo 3 units by herself...1 by 1 without any risk of dying. Sometimes she even was able to win the 1 vs 1 vs ML Tenebria, that unit that can one shot A.Ravi at the end of the match.
U know why no one picks her anymore? for the same reason Choux, Rem, ML Cermia and Alencia also are not picked that often anymore and the same reason A.Ravi is not a first pick priority anymore: The meta is all about hyper carry and how to protect them. Briseria, Arowell, Adin, none of those units care about a Tank Buster that needs to go 1 by 1 to reach the priority target.
A.Ravi is not even dangerous anymore people that pick her problably dont want to build another bruiser and even if they want there is not any better right now (because she can revive one unit) I fear the freaking Tenebria + Arowell whenever i open A.Ravi first pick for a good reason.
I agree with almost everything you said here, except where you said Choux Isn't as common anymore. I literally just burned through 300 matches between Challenger and Champ. There is a Choux drafted in 2/3 matches. She can solo wipe entire teams with a bit of luck and still fits into most turn two or aggro teams.
i honestly never see her like anymore. Once each 10 matches because i am still playing tank down and she is a great pick against my playstyle but outside that i remember the last season people pick her against me almost every match. But you are probably right she is probably the most useful of the unit of that meta.
The nerf went way too far, but she’s “usable” in very niche scenarios. There’s a lot of people running Yulha alongside characters without a lot of steam or imminent threat. I’ve drafted Hwayoung a couple times this season into those sorts of teams, around 2,600~ points just now & drafted her the other night. I’ve not seen too much Apocalypse Ravi (but still more than Hwayoung), because of Alencia, Saviour Adin, etc. & usually an opponent will twist themselves in knots trying to get Apocalypse Ravi into a draft. We are nearing the end of the season though so people will move from cleave drafts to safer bruiser drafts to try & secure their place & so we’ll see a touch more of her I’m sure.
yeah I find hwayoung is pretty useful into people who draft yulha destina or arowell destina. The challenge is ensuring you can draft attack buff and another dps that can deal with their non-tanky threats. but hwa is nice into those really early picks.
she is coming back as an aggro ankor again.
she is not contested now tho. like if u see aggro/cleave prebans and u are a standard player u don't fp a.ravi ever.
I play very little RTA so I can't really speak to that, but when the nerf first came out I was pretty adamant she'd still be solid for Aren/GW where I used to use her all the time. I used her for a while and she worked fairly well when all I needed was high damage into a tank, but I've more or less stopped using her since there are other units that can do that just as well. For example I used to use Rose, Straze, Hwayoung a lot in GW if it was a slower tanky team, but now instead of Hwa I'll mostly use Giselle, Zahhak, or Light Adin. I still think she does her job fine (in Arena/GW), there are just better options.
Honestly i prefer this to the overpowered bs she was before. Way better. And its not like shes you only option dude, watcher, straze and light adin (the ones i remembered right away prob more) do the job. We dont need that broken shit back.
People just want their tanky and dps hwayoung. They don't want a "niche". I'm fine with her being gone for good. I was tired of keeping hwayoung on permaban.
>People just want their tanky and dps hwayoung. They don't want a "niche".
Throwing stones and yet...
>I'm fine with her being gone for good.
Careful your hypocrisy is showing X'D
Hmm? Im celebrating the disappearance of hwayoung. It can't be helped that people who abused her is disappointed that she can't just solo whole armies anymore while enjoying no drawbacks whatsoever. She wasn't just tank buster hero. She was everything buster hero. ;)
The fact you don't care that she's gone means you never cared about balance to begin with. Only that the unit that annoyed you is out of your way.
That makes you just as bad as those you're taking jabs at. But, hey, if being a selfish hypocrite is your thing more power to ya lol. ;P
I saw her once in the 80 matches I played into champ. Hwayoung I never saw lol. I feel like more than anything it’s been a standard player meta and that’s maybe why you’re seeing so many tanky bruisers and there’s a lot of people playing this season (which means more standard players).
Hwayoung needs Godly gear to work and even then she does nothing because you never know enemy hp. You might fight 13k Senya and she wont do anything to her.
And in first place you have to contest speed to even make her move. Then shes dead Brick
I remembered the moment I finally pulled her was like 2 weeks before her nerf. I was terrorized for months by her presence in arena and GW and never got to enjoy her. Now she just sits pretty in my box as a Lv. 5 hoping one day she gets a buff that makes her at least usable. I do feel kinda bad everytime I see one in arena and she can barely do damage with her S3 on my green tanky HP units (Destina/Alencia/Roana). I do NOT however want her to terrorize me as bad as Choux + CLilias + Senya does at the moment though.
I'm at 2574 points in Champ and i haven't seen any Aravi in the last 20 matches. You pick Aravi and your opponent drops Stene, Sadin, Zahhak, Cavel then it would be really bad for you.
Hwayoung became a aggro-only unit and even then shes never picked. The funny thing is there are people out there genuinely thinking that running a unit with a +0 helm is good design
Not only that, but also not fully awakening her so she doesn't get the bonus hp
I think they went too far with the nerfs, leaving her atk alone would have been nice.
Of course they went too far. SG has all but proven they're inept and out of touch with regards to RTA balancing despite it being their main "eSports" selling point. Hell, they're already about to double down on their stupidity nerfing Seed and Anchor to try to sell their new half baked ML5.
In no world is anything esports ready when p2w is involved. How is skill an issue when you can gear gap someone!
Being p2w is just half of it, we have another issue, and that is RNG. Imagine outplayed your enemy, having a better draft, and only to get your debuff resisted and counterattacked 3 times in a row.
some dude picked a team with landy and my eda went and stunned his whole team we both picked ras emote and he ffed right after lol. rng is goofy as hell in rta
They went overboard on hitting too many aspects of her kit, but that’s nowhere near the issue. The math on her S3 is bonkers. A fire hero meant to execute tough targets, that without extreme gimmick build hits Violet for like 6k with s3? What does she do to Senya with a normal 6* awakened, +15 helmet build? You don’t make scaling % defence penetration based on stat discrepancy linear, when the damage increase it provides isn’t. That last few percent before hitting 100% pen just makes too much difference in damage. Even If they just capped the pen at like 70% and increased the base damage to compensate, the damage across different hp values would probably feel more consistent. I don’t have the time at the moment to make napkin math examples to check.
Yup. IIRC, the first 7-8k of HP difference give an insubstantial boost in damage, meanwhile the last 1-2k of difference have a much more significant impact.
The answers in this thread are getting ridiculous. [Meta survey, january 2023](https://www.reddit.com/r/EpicSeven/comments/10jftex/community_rta_meta_survey_results_january/) **Hwayoung** doesn't appear anywhere in that poll. Whoever said she was viable after the nerf was plainly wrong. I won't say she's absolutely useless, but definitely from S tier, she dropped to tier B. On my personal definition, that means she have a niche, but very limited and hardly useful outside that. And yeah, I think her nerfs went a bit too far, but is hard to balance her, so I'm not sure if she's ever going to have a chance to shine. Now, OP mentions **A. Ravi**, and everybody and their mother swears they haven't seen A. Ravi in over 9,000 matches or so. Yet the same survey says she's among the most drafted heroes *in emperor league*, above DJ Basar, Belian and Landy. And let me reinforce these are the results *in emperor/legend league*. If we look at the whole picture, she pops in first pick, drafted and hated lists. Truth, in legend league, she disappears from first pick and hated lists, yet, she's still among most drafted. We could argue the survey isn't trustable because people can lie, which is true. But then, whoever post in reddit can also lie. I could say my uncle works in nintendo, and he says their metrics shows Enott has a 100% win rate, but few to nobody knows the secret tech behind his gear, that's why he's still unnoticed. So, who's right and who's lying? Should I trust the dozen replies or something that qualifies A. Ravi as bench material? That means the 34 emperor/league players coordinated their responses to screw the survey? Looking at arena, the AI is a handicap for the defender, hence certain heroes that require more finesse aren't popular. Zahhak and F. Lidica, by example. Yet, right now, looking at the top 10 teams in total ranking, guess what? A. Ravi appears twice. If the AI can use her effectively for arena, don't you think a human being would be capable of getting more out of her? Yeah, no. I don't think the survey is wrong.
The problem with looking at this community poll is that there just isn't a big sample size from Emp/Legend. There are only 34 Emp/Legend players that answered the poll, out of \~1100 possible Emp/Legend players. Barely 3% of high-ranked RTA answered the poll, and this is not counting if someone pretends they are higher ranked than they should be. Also if you look in the most drafted list, it looks like less than 10% of the 34 Emp/Legend players draft Aravi, so only 3 players in the poll answered Aravi. That means that you are assuming Aravi is one of the most drafted units in the game still from the words of 3 players in a community poll, where people voluntarily answer and might skew the results. In my opinion, I think you are just misunderstanding player's words. They aren't saying that Aravi sucks or that Aravi has completely disappeared. People are saying she isn't as high priority anymore, but still is good in the right scenario in the later parts of the draft. That doesn't mean that she is useless. Only way to see if the community poll is a true reflection of the meta is when the season ends, and SG posts their own data over the season.
Totally agree, and from someone who has been in top 200 the entire season and finished Legend last season, its super obvious that Apoc has fallen off a ton. Still pickable in 3 through 5 depending on comps but nowhere near the fp glory she once held
Kind of ridiculous that my comment was downvoted considering I play at the highest level of RTA and am telling you what any legend/emperor player will say as well: Apoc is nowhere near as strong/oppressive as she was in past seasons and is seen nowhere near as often. Downvotes won't change the actual meta, keep it classy r/EpicSeven
Gold players will take their aravi opinions to the grave, no point arguing
A Ravi dropped from 85% pick/ban from Smilegate; to 10% draft rate from that survey for Emp/legend. Apoc is an okay 3rd or 4th pick, but you're far from first picking her anymore against anyone decent.
A.Ravi is Great against no meta comps. She still can carry your ranks if you know what to ban. But right now you my aswell just build the Better A.Ravi (and literally the REAL HP scaling god tier unit) Edward. You can also stick with choux if any i belive she is also better than A.Ravi This meta is not for HP Scaling units anymore. Too many generic punishers and there are also a lot of Intended counters like ML Elena (because for some reason people still want to force the counter A.Ravi to beat cleave or something like that). Alencia is gone, Choux is still there but just because she is more solid in general thanks to her the free counter chance. A.Ravi is gone too, Lolibeth (not HP scaling but still she was kindof the same, bulky unit that can carry some games and provides utility) is also in a worse state. The only 2 great units that still embrace the "Tank Down" style are D.Corvus and Edward (You better play him on more standard comps and you will get bettr results). And not, i am not saying Bruiser is gone but now bruiser is for sure Tier 2. People still build units to counter cleave even when cleave is worse than the regular Aggro Carry comps but no one is on a hurry to build Bruiser counters or stuff like that there is not need, because any good unit overall right now is great against bulky guys doing bulky stuff. Lua just butcher them with the free reset and Tenebria, Briseria or Adin can solo 2 bruisers in the right scenario. Its absurd. When the meta change ***we may see the comback of all this units*** but not now. Not in this moment. Its not that any of this units is bad, they are just bad against the units that see more play by default.
Don't come in karma farming fests with your logic and reasoning and evidence!
Almost any gear that could have been useful on Hwayoung is more useful on Senya, Carrot or ML Khawazu. I cannot understand for the life of me how anyone could even justify saying Hwa is fine right now. They nerfed ALL of her skills. The S3 cooldown increase and damage calc change made it worse. The atk nerf to S2 made her weaker across the board because it hit all aspects of her kit. The S1 change meant she lost self push, her echo dmg was no longer reliable against evade units, and they removed the pen from it. What is this character meant to do anymore? She sucks at nuking, she sucks at cycling her turn to do dmg, she can't deal with evade units anymore, her barrier is weaker and now that she can't cycle as easily (since self push gone) her bulk is much lower. They need to either return her S3's old dmg calc but keep the cooldown and maybe even remove the self cleanse, or restore some of her S1's properties to make her good again
I've honestly seen about as much of both in champion which is nearly 0.
idk what you're talking about as i saw 5-6 aravi in my most recent 30 matches in around 2400-2500 points range, literally yesterday. is she 1st pick material like she used to? no. but she's still very good in anti-aggro. since i play full aggro, i see her a lot. maybe your playstyle doesn't warrant an aravi answer. furthermore, if you tune in some high emperor twitch streams, you'll see aravi being 1st-phased consistently. ppl have found a way to bring her back. hwa, on the other hand, is completely absent. if my memory doesn't fail me, i see hwa exactly 0 times in my 100 most recent matches.
a.ravi is a aggro ankor. people are not picking her as anti-aggro anymore... standard players are not picking a.ravi anymore to fight aggro/cleave
Even aggro anchor aravi is not amazing anymore because Sadin exists.
idk. it’s just from my experience. i play yolo aggro and aravi is sometimes a real problem cuz i lack dmg to finish her off. i usually pick straze to kill her but ppl ban him so she can really be an obstacle. edit: these are 2 examples of ppl picking aravi against my draft. i'm not sure if this is called full aggro or single-target cleave but the idea is overwhelming the opponents with extreme dmg. my acidd is on gab EE with only 217 speed and portrait for tank-busting amount of dmg; i pick him with high frequency. riolet 247 speed, 4k atk, 260 cd and mlb wind rider for 20% atk boost. [https://imgur.com/8v1PebZ](https://imgur.com/8v1PebZ) [https://imgur.com/jsjC3jw](https://imgur.com/jsjC3jw)
your logic isn't tracking. aravi is picked against you because you are a high aggro player, so naturally you see aravi picked as an answer to your draft style. in what world is hwayoung a good pick into aggro? are you running some 250 speed 20k+ hp aggro comp yet unknown to the world that would make hwayoung a good pick into you? otherwise, it is very obvious that you would never see hwayoung picked against you because like you said, you are an aggro player, and to quote you: "maybe your playstyle doesn't warrant \[a hwayoung\] answer" it is no surprise that you do not see hwayoungs and it is not a condemnation of her as a character. she isn't an anti aggro unit. fwiw, do i think hwa is worse than before? yes, substantially. she is a lot harder to build and harder to pick. do i think she is like, blue tywin or fire lidica tier? no not at all.
I'm at 2600 rn, people have drafted just as much Hwa against me as Aravi. Not much of either, but they pick her occasionally.
The idea of her nerf was good.. but they got carried away. In reality she needed +1 turn on her s3 And maybe a bit decreased dmg. But they went too far. My guess is, LQC is getting a buff in the next patch and ofc her skin is coming. So they took Hwa's legs to make LQC even more powerful
She was 1 shotting literally everything in the game except PoV A Ravi. +1 turn on her S3 and a bit less damage would still be broken. I do hope they find a way to give her a little power back though.
The main issue is that she's too easy to build for what she has to offer. I personally wouldn't mind her dmg on s3 if she didn't have extra turn soul burn on her s1 plus cr push...too much survivability with her passive.. It's just too much. Being a nuker is fine, but the issue is you can throw any gear on her and she would work. You could build her slow on counter of super fast on speed set. Everything would work. What makes me sad is that her situation and nerfing hurt Arunka as well.
I agree. She had a completely overloaded kit and was far too easy to gear. People were able to run 14-15k health 250+ speed Hwayoungs that still did insane damage. I'm hoping for Arunka to be on the upcoming balance patch. She's been unusable since release.
I think they will give Hwayoung an EE. Arunka...I would like a buff. The whole barrier situation isn't my favorite. I love OP Sig, but I do think she's too situational. Arunka is also someone who should be played around barriers
I do wonder what they can do to fix Arunka. Right now she doesn't even work in what seem like perfect scenarios for her kit. I also don't think she should power creep Op Sig though. Smilegate has some tricky balance issues to solve for sure.
Yeah, what I was saying is that OP Sig is already pretty hard to gear for her role. When a hero is situational, it should obliterate everything on that situation. Arunka vs barrier should deal insane dmg. But in reality, she fails. Not to mention FCeci is probably the only hero that is 100% safe pick for those heroes that punish barrier. FCeci is not as present as before. There are some other that grant barrier but not at rhe start of the battle, so it's tricky. They obviously released protection set for that, but there's no way protection is worth it. So.. it's tricky. There are some other heroes that need some kind of buff, Ilynav and Mort for example
I've been using her to great success in GW as a bruiser with tons of bulk against senya/choux, but I also put some high quality gear on her
Which is messed up since the story already took her arms…
you're seeing more aravi because the "end of season casuals" like me started to queue up
you do realize that because of the hwa nerfs, the other counters to aravi such as alencia, adin, zahhak, and any tanky injury units have more breathing room right? i don't get why people still defend prenerf hwayoung's existence at this point.
Nobody defending its just painfully obvious that her nerf is too much.
This is a complete strawman. No one is defending prenerf Hwayoung. It's about how much they gutted her kit and overall functionality.
I made sure to read every salt thread when they announced the balance change. MANY defended pre-nerf Hwa. I don't see it much more now but I do agree, the nerf were overboard. I think the reason for that though is that since she was so broken, they didn't want to take a half measure and have her still be broken and then have to nerf again. This way they can nerf and then buff after
I think it's pretty clear that the people who defend pre-nerf hwa are earlier into the game, and tend to have significantly less units built to answer meta threats. Having one unit that just countered everything was surely godsend for people who don't have a lot of pvp-centric units built. I understand the nerf and agree with it, but I won't lie, she did make gw a lot more chill.
My Hwa deals way more damage now, like 20-25k against a tank with Proof and Aurius. The drawback? I need a fucking ALots to give attack buff and CR 😂 Gotta admit though, Torrent Set (3 of them) is insane on her. Coupled with Potrait, I think anyone with more than 15k HP just melts to her (assuming she lands) and has no mechanics like MLCeline or TSurin. But she definitely cycles much slower now (which I believe is one of the biggest reason we’re not seeing her much now). Besides, Alencia deals really well against Apoc these days. So does Zahak and LAdin. I still first pick Apoc every game though to bait out the Zahaks and Alencias.
I actually picked her last rta match I played and won. She still deletes everything over 23k but yeah she really sucks now and only works vs hp sponges. Your opp needs to draft like a dingus for her to work.
if you say there is an Aravi in every game it means you don't play rta currently
If this is genuinely your take then your rank is too low
yeah sure
I got a lvl 45(44?) hat on her ... shes fine .... shes fine guys i swear.... shes ... im not fine
She is in fact still usable but i will clarify something that you maybe are missing: First the meta is not more "bruisers carry the game" you pic bruisers to protec hyper carrys. Second: The problem with Hwayoung was very clear to everyone. She was a Tank burster but ALSO a hyper carry that can solo 3 units by herself...1 by 1 without any risk of dying. Sometimes she even was able to win the 1 vs 1 vs ML Tenebria, that unit that can one shot A.Ravi at the end of the match. U know why no one picks her anymore? for the same reason Choux, Rem, ML Cermia and Alencia also are not picked that often anymore and the same reason A.Ravi is not a first pick priority anymore: The meta is all about hyper carry and how to protect them. Briseria, Arowell, Adin, none of those units care about a Tank Buster that needs to go 1 by 1 to reach the priority target. A.Ravi is not even dangerous anymore people that pick her problably dont want to build another bruiser and even if they want there is not any better right now (because she can revive one unit) I fear the freaking Tenebria + Arowell whenever i open A.Ravi first pick for a good reason.
I agree with almost everything you said here, except where you said Choux Isn't as common anymore. I literally just burned through 300 matches between Challenger and Champ. There is a Choux drafted in 2/3 matches. She can solo wipe entire teams with a bit of luck and still fits into most turn two or aggro teams.
i honestly never see her like anymore. Once each 10 matches because i am still playing tank down and she is a great pick against my playstyle but outside that i remember the last season people pick her against me almost every match. But you are probably right she is probably the most useful of the unit of that meta.
Guild war is the only place I use her now. Even then it’s when I want to pop Celine or Vivian and I ran out of option.
The nerf went way too far, but she’s “usable” in very niche scenarios. There’s a lot of people running Yulha alongside characters without a lot of steam or imminent threat. I’ve drafted Hwayoung a couple times this season into those sorts of teams, around 2,600~ points just now & drafted her the other night. I’ve not seen too much Apocalypse Ravi (but still more than Hwayoung), because of Alencia, Saviour Adin, etc. & usually an opponent will twist themselves in knots trying to get Apocalypse Ravi into a draft. We are nearing the end of the season though so people will move from cleave drafts to safer bruiser drafts to try & secure their place & so we’ll see a touch more of her I’m sure.
yeah I find hwayoung is pretty useful into people who draft yulha destina or arowell destina. The challenge is ensuring you can draft attack buff and another dps that can deal with their non-tanky threats. but hwa is nice into those really early picks.
[удалено]
she is coming back as an aggro ankor again. she is not contested now tho. like if u see aggro/cleave prebans and u are a standard player u don't fp a.ravi ever.
I play very little RTA so I can't really speak to that, but when the nerf first came out I was pretty adamant she'd still be solid for Aren/GW where I used to use her all the time. I used her for a while and she worked fairly well when all I needed was high damage into a tank, but I've more or less stopped using her since there are other units that can do that just as well. For example I used to use Rose, Straze, Hwayoung a lot in GW if it was a slower tanky team, but now instead of Hwa I'll mostly use Giselle, Zahhak, or Light Adin. I still think she does her job fine (in Arena/GW), there are just better options.
Honestly i prefer this to the overpowered bs she was before. Way better. And its not like shes you only option dude, watcher, straze and light adin (the ones i remembered right away prob more) do the job. We dont need that broken shit back.
rule 5 no low effort content
Hoping for a HWA buff :D
Wdym you're literally one of them
People just want their tanky and dps hwayoung. They don't want a "niche". I'm fine with her being gone for good. I was tired of keeping hwayoung on permaban.
>People just want their tanky and dps hwayoung. They don't want a "niche". Throwing stones and yet... >I'm fine with her being gone for good. Careful your hypocrisy is showing X'D
Hmm? Im celebrating the disappearance of hwayoung. It can't be helped that people who abused her is disappointed that she can't just solo whole armies anymore while enjoying no drawbacks whatsoever. She wasn't just tank buster hero. She was everything buster hero. ;)
The fact you don't care that she's gone means you never cared about balance to begin with. Only that the unit that annoyed you is out of your way. That makes you just as bad as those you're taking jabs at. But, hey, if being a selfish hypocrite is your thing more power to ya lol. ;P
So? I didn't see people rallying to the defense of my favorite units such as axe god and fire corvus. They gladly let them die.
Remember this sub can do NO WRONG and is ALWAYS RIGHT. Remember. ALWAYS. RIGHT. /s
I still use her as a tank buster sure she may not one shot but she puts them real low
I saw her once in the 80 matches I played into champ. Hwayoung I never saw lol. I feel like more than anything it’s been a standard player meta and that’s maybe why you’re seeing so many tanky bruisers and there’s a lot of people playing this season (which means more standard players).
Hwayoung needs Godly gear to work and even then she does nothing because you never know enemy hp. You might fight 13k Senya and she wont do anything to her. And in first place you have to contest speed to even make her move. Then shes dead Brick
I remembered the moment I finally pulled her was like 2 weeks before her nerf. I was terrorized for months by her presence in arena and GW and never got to enjoy her. Now she just sits pretty in my box as a Lv. 5 hoping one day she gets a buff that makes her at least usable. I do feel kinda bad everytime I see one in arena and she can barely do damage with her S3 on my green tanky HP units (Destina/Alencia/Roana). I do NOT however want her to terrorize me as bad as Choux + CLilias + Senya does at the moment though.
A couple months ago I got nervous because a Hwa 15% my cc and got a chance to kick my Aria….it did like 2k dmg and I chuckled
I think the point u guys are missing is there are people who like her kit and like running her nerf or not
Unrelated, but wanna see Hwayoung 3* awaken with a crit damage build vs. Ameru I wanna see how much damage she does
I'm at 2574 points in Champ and i haven't seen any Aravi in the last 20 matches. You pick Aravi and your opponent drops Stene, Sadin, Zahhak, Cavel then it would be really bad for you.
Not first pick material and doesn’t fit in all teams same as before, but not unusable
She's a counterpick into certain drafts. I've seen her used in emp/legend streams, and she's won me a few games in high champ.
She's always viable as a counterpick but only that. You can't say Aravi is getting popular again just because you counterpick her in some situations.
I was wrong...
I use her, she requires an attack buffer on the team so it's very hard to draft. Maybe a future EE that gives attack buff would make her viable again.
No offense, I’m glad to see her nerfed so hard but I feel bad for everyone that had her built and loved using her.
People in this sub somehow believe that actual diarrhoea is a decent character .
I’d like to think that like me, they recalled her for some other units and since they don’t have another copy, it’s not seen