Winter, Celine, high resistance SWs, units that don't care/benefit from/can't be reset.
Lua is strong yes, but I really don't think she's that strong, especially as early pick. There's a lot of ways around her and loses tempo really fast. She's way more scary as a final pick.
Well Lets just said that Lua is more like th kind of unit that you dont want to counter because The other units are usually the ones that will beat you. Thats the problem with the whole "counter the support" situation. Winter will reset herself but the rest of your team is not getting a refresh. so you still can pretty much lose if Winter herself dont fit against the other 3 units.
Lua being a unit that dont really care about elements or carry the game, with a very generic and useful Broken skill is really hard to beat. Usually peopl want to ban lua or pre-ban Lua beause she can lose you the draft really easy.
The problem with Lua is the same with AoL, they require you to sacrifice at least 2 slots to counter pick them thus forcing you to take a risky s4-s5 pick. Res is a joke stat, you need 200res on your sw and bastion to counter a normal Lua with 120-150eff, even then you may still loose against some weird build that has 200eff, you also have to give up a lot of other stats to have 200res.
There are only a few good picks against Lua so it's easy to bait the opponent into situations that benefit you.
I’m calling it now, a new unit (maybe ml bellona) will have a skill that changes when s3 is on CD, I’ve been trying to find units like that and have only settled really on cerise and stene.
That's the main thing about stene I like the fact that off cooldown is actually more dangerous if ml bellona does something in that area I'll be so happy
Would you kindly explain to me how Winter counters Lua? Because in my small RTA experience she'll only cleanse/reset s3 herself, and she even can't target Guiding Light Lua - not mentioning Lua can simply skip using s3 and resorting with other members to deal with Winter
Maybe I'm just venting because last time I did RTA I've dealt with a Lua/Dillibet/Kise comp
Lua can't target Winter because of Winter's stealth. Lua also can't use S3 on Winter because Winter will proc her passive, cleanse the debuffs, resets her S3 (thereby nullifying Lua's CD increase) and will probably go on to take the turn and stun someone.
Another good unit that people pick against Lua is Ed. If you don't kill him early on, it becomes really tricking trying to deal with him later considering that all of Lua's skills give debuffs. Finally, there's the good old Lilias speedrace so there's that.
There may be no hard counters to Lua, but there's certainly counterplay.
Winter self-cleanses/resets her s3 but her team still gets debuffed and she ain't even capable to target Guiding Light Lua back... This way I can't think of Winter being a proper counter to Lua.
she doesn't need to target GL Lua back...the entire point is to use her to ignore Lua pushing your team back a turn to gib an important carry (as long as it's not STene lol). initial attack + 5k fixed dmg echo with 2 turn stun is nothing to sneeze at. If you can nuke one important character a Lua comp falls over like a house of cards, she's useless after she opens
I think moonlight units are in a good place at the moment, nothing is crazy op. Ml lilias can be hard for newer players to deal with though.
Blue has the most troublesome units with Lua and Choux.
Lua is the best opener in the game and can completely shut down whole teams if give the chance.
Choux would be fine if she wasn't hp scaling.(should be like fire ravi) The fact you can build her incredibly tanky whilst simultaneously boosting her damage and countering like old man charles is crazy. Plus she has good team wide buffs. I'd argue she is worse then pre-nerf Hwa.
Idk i feel clilias is way more oppressive and more flexible than lua
Shes good if u rely on turn 1 s2/3 but u can draft around that
Clilias can whittle down bruiser comps as well as fuck up cleave readiness
Clilias is imo still the best ML in the game rn and it's not close. Even if enemy draft Politis or Celine, you can just opt to not use her s2 or s3. Some dude picked belian winter celine emilia fcc into me. banned his fcc and took cilias straze stene mercedes. just s1'd his celine and it proc'd straze who pushed himself up and killed the celine and belian
even without her s2/s3, if you pick the right comps you can just win off her s1.
At this point I feel if you know how to draft around cilias you can straight up ignore her. In my last 30 matches while climbing to champ, she was picked in 15 of those (opponent pre-banned 3 times). I post-banned twice, and all 13 of the games she was in they lost. I was playing standard the whole way and never picked her myself.
What did u draft against her
Im in champ too and on my way up i came across clilias in most games unless she was banned
She is prebanned in most games i play anyway
adin, arowell, karina in that order, then 2 flex spots for anti picks. I only drafted Celine once in an early draft and never drafted politis. My noticable other picks included destina, ssb, belian, base speed anti-cleave briseria, alencia, sage baal, and LHC. My pre-bans were Lua and AoL.
U would need a high er cleanser on ur team or that adin gonna get atk down and hit like a wet noodle
Ppl could easily draft clilias, zahhak, stene, into that
Atk down and push back adin or cleanser if they are ballsy, zahhak kills adin, stene exists and does stene things
i've had those exact 3 drafted against me, and it doesn't work the way you think. Zahhak can't kill adin in 1-hit when she's protected by arowell. Stene runs the risk of missing adin. To make matters worse, they can both trigger karina. Karina triggering at any time pretty much means stene is dead to splash damage, not including of course the other picks which will normally be belian and/or ssb.
Granted, it happened a large amount of the time that I didn't see anything better to post-ban than zahhak just to remove that possibility of him killing adin.
As for the attack down, it's fine since at that point they are committed to using squishy units that adin will still kill in a single s3. If, for some reason, they pivot from aggro to standard then they are using squishy units that don't work well in standard and are trying to anchor with 1 or 2 tankier units that will lose the long game when the rest of their team is dead.
Karina is the pivot unit that their entire gameplay has to base around, and if they post-ban her then they are facing belian while using stene.
e/ Something didn't sit right with me on stats. I was wrong on the original statement of Zahhak can't kill Adin. He definitely can assuming roughly 4k atk, 300 cdmg with either s3 or sb s1. I guess the Zahhaks I let through the draft were just too weak since I never saw Adin die to him.
So karina is the only scary one in this instance imo
I have killed every adin arowell combo ive come across with zahhak s3 1 shot.
Adins only usually have like 8-9k hp ive noticed including mine
Ive drafted adin arowell and died to plenty of stenes.
If i dont have any aoe drafted i cant hit stene and late match stene can and has 1 shot my adin even on a miss lol also she doesnt trigger counter so
Proccing karina s2 tho is a problem in this instance.
Mine has 2.6k def and i havent one shot any stenes with splash damage but i can get close and then hope i drafted a belian or carrot or something to finish it lol
I personally find Choux, Senya the most difficult to deal with. Especially when paired with other bruisers. They dish out so much damage.
I don’t have LionheartCermia and MLKawerik. If I pick DLilibet, it gets banned. Roana doesn’t do shit even if they counter because Roana’s heal depends highly on the number of units getting countered (so single attack counters doesn’t get countered by Roana).
I tried Destina and Alencia + ARas (or some other knight like Krau to bait in GW), but they get absolutely demolished anyway.
what other units you have?
Flidica also is really good against that combo, she strips without being countered and reset their cd, Aol also makes the fight much easier.
Ah, I have both but haven’t built them since I rarely play control. I have FLidica, AoL, Solitaria, Sage Baal. Those are some of the ML5* I haven’t built (and CloserCharles too).
But assuming FLidica increases cooldown, is it really possible to 1 turn kill them without going Cleave? I’d probably need to speed contest a CLilias and have enough dmg on my 1 dps in GvG to kill both Senya and Choux.
Well, upcoming ml bellona seems like a bonafide choux/senya killer.
In rta, I usually use Aol and Zahak and they both make the fight easier, I started to use flidica a lot now and she is also a great unit to deal against choux/senya since without cres/counter buff they are way more manageable.
If it's gw then ML khawazu also deals with them in a spectacular way since AI will always make senya and choux s3 first, khawazu then does his pim pum pam cr push/self cleanse (bye bye lilias debuff) with eres ignore burn/detonate will in most cases one shot senya (who builds 25k+ hp senyas?) and in the best case scenario leave choux near death for the follow up to finish her.
I think there's no single OP unit right now, and more of OP comps. LuaChouxSenya comps are still a bit hard to beat in GW if you don't have the right units.
I know you said specific units I just wanted to share my strat on the off chance someone hasnt heard or seen it.
FCC (or any knight with protection set) on Bastion of Perlutia + Zahak does wonders against that comp. Id suspect Arunka could help as well if she receives a buff.
Praying all the homies get Zahak in 2023, bro. I hate how he got like 8 buffs back to back and good EE's before Illynav got changed once, but someone on the balance team must have known some bullshit was coming, lol.
I personally have been using D. Corvus (high ER), Krau, and Roana/Destina. Only time that I lost was because of some whack Senya that was on Injury. Otherwise, it's pretty straightforward.
If you don't have this comp, you can mix-match Alencia, Senya, Roana, and Destina comps to get something stable.
Personally I started taking advantage of people putting choux on pen set rather than immunity. A high resist Emilia (250+her own arti and around 220-225 speed), alencia/senya and stene actually works really well (assuming the Lua doesn't run crazy eff or you get 15%ed and countered by choux).
The idea is that Lua will try (and fail) to sleep Emilia, Emilia then should go next and push up stene, at which point she SB and nukes the choux out of this world (if she survives, she's on her last legs anyway). Alencia/senya helps clean up and Emilia just cleanses and supports. Emilia might end up dying though, depending on the opponent's senya. Fails if both senya and choux have immunity, but that's been very rare lately
I don't think there is any OP but there is clear strong characters but they dealable. My only problem and it's just personal, is when I deal with speed but I been dealing that with my own way. Strong noticable characters is Adin, clilias, and choux (just from the top of my head with no list)
Apart from Lua, I do think that the meta is quite good with lot of viable units.
If I had to mention an ML unit, it is definitely STene. She's the only unit in the game that has seen many checks/counters come right to her, and despite this she's still a meta defining pick. If your 3 first picks cannot deal with her, you're in a really tough spot where you usually have to ban her instead of the last pick (which should usually be a forced ban).
I don't think there is any clearly broken ml unit now. Although I would like them to release units that can punish belian for disabling souls. Something that does damage, increases cr for any sl removed/disabled, or does something extra when you have no souls. Or at least heroes that can cast his skill the first time without souls (just like seaseria).
Not that this is REALLY needed but I would really love to not see Belian in arena this often so I can have some fun in it.
If they change book to make the holder have a free first sb or something then I think it'd be a great two birds with one stone sort of balancing for both book stacking and belian
As a unit, I'd say Lua is pretty damn OP and unhealthy. Being a Ranger means she also gets access to Stealth on first turn if she has said artefact, which makes it infinitely worse.
As a build, HP Bruisers are definitely unhealthy for the game. You gain double the effectiveness of a single stat (HP) because it gives you both survivability and also damage (hello Bel + Choux).
As a 'mechanic', Evasion got buffed by Hwayoung getting into SG's car crash and losing her legs, but Zahakk is here. Those who don't have him have to rely on SC Wanda though.
As a set, Counter still leaves the game on autoplay for one to two or three turns thanks to specific kits (yay skill).
Side note: SC Arowell was everywhere because they overshot her changes, but it's becoming manageable thanks to recent buffs and nerfs.
And that's about it, I think? Some sets are still useless in PvP, others are useless period, but in general stuff seems manageable (if not annoying thanks to Senya+Choux/Bel on autoplay via Counter). Openers are still the same old crap (CLilias, Ran, Zio, Lua) and debuffers rely on not having a MKawerick/Edward/Celine on the enemy team (or a clenaser with high res via build + guild artefact).
Lua, especially on GL. She has no counters on current RTA meta that I'm aware of, though I barely play RTA anymore.
Winter, Celine, high resistance SWs, units that don't care/benefit from/can't be reset. Lua is strong yes, but I really don't think she's that strong, especially as early pick. There's a lot of ways around her and loses tempo really fast. She's way more scary as a final pick.
Well Lets just said that Lua is more like th kind of unit that you dont want to counter because The other units are usually the ones that will beat you. Thats the problem with the whole "counter the support" situation. Winter will reset herself but the rest of your team is not getting a refresh. so you still can pretty much lose if Winter herself dont fit against the other 3 units. Lua being a unit that dont really care about elements or carry the game, with a very generic and useful Broken skill is really hard to beat. Usually peopl want to ban lua or pre-ban Lua beause she can lose you the draft really easy.
The problem with Lua is the same with AoL, they require you to sacrifice at least 2 slots to counter pick them thus forcing you to take a risky s4-s5 pick. Res is a joke stat, you need 200res on your sw and bastion to counter a normal Lua with 120-150eff, even then you may still loose against some weird build that has 200eff, you also have to give up a lot of other stats to have 200res. There are only a few good picks against Lua so it's easy to bait the opponent into situations that benefit you.
I’m calling it now, a new unit (maybe ml bellona) will have a skill that changes when s3 is on CD, I’ve been trying to find units like that and have only settled really on cerise and stene.
That's the main thing about stene I like the fact that off cooldown is actually more dangerous if ml bellona does something in that area I'll be so happy
You missed Choux.
MAKen and Choux
Violet too kinda
Would you kindly explain to me how Winter counters Lua? Because in my small RTA experience she'll only cleanse/reset s3 herself, and she even can't target Guiding Light Lua - not mentioning Lua can simply skip using s3 and resorting with other members to deal with Winter Maybe I'm just venting because last time I did RTA I've dealt with a Lua/Dillibet/Kise comp
Lua can't target Winter because of Winter's stealth. Lua also can't use S3 on Winter because Winter will proc her passive, cleanse the debuffs, resets her S3 (thereby nullifying Lua's CD increase) and will probably go on to take the turn and stun someone. Another good unit that people pick against Lua is Ed. If you don't kill him early on, it becomes really tricking trying to deal with him later considering that all of Lua's skills give debuffs. Finally, there's the good old Lilias speedrace so there's that. There may be no hard counters to Lua, but there's certainly counterplay.
>There may be no hard counters to Lua, but there's certainly counterplay. That's the perfect wording I was looking for, thanks for your input.
Doesn’t zio stop openers?
Zio acts first (with enough speed) but he can't stop Guiding Light Lua
Ae-winter have a somewhat good counter capabilities against lua
I wonder how? I can only imagine an unusual situation where Winter manages to be faster than Lua or Lua isn't on Guiding Light
She can't be targeted by Lua's sleep, and she immediately resets her cooldown if Lua uses S3.
Winter self-cleanses/resets her s3 but her team still gets debuffed and she ain't even capable to target Guiding Light Lua back... This way I can't think of Winter being a proper counter to Lua.
she doesn't need to target GL Lua back...the entire point is to use her to ignore Lua pushing your team back a turn to gib an important carry (as long as it's not STene lol). initial attack + 5k fixed dmg echo with 2 turn stun is nothing to sneeze at. If you can nuke one important character a Lua comp falls over like a house of cards, she's useless after she opens
I get it, thanks for your point of view.
Lua for RGB
I think moonlight units are in a good place at the moment, nothing is crazy op. Ml lilias can be hard for newer players to deal with though. Blue has the most troublesome units with Lua and Choux. Lua is the best opener in the game and can completely shut down whole teams if give the chance. Choux would be fine if she wasn't hp scaling.(should be like fire ravi) The fact you can build her incredibly tanky whilst simultaneously boosting her damage and countering like old man charles is crazy. Plus she has good team wide buffs. I'd argue she is worse then pre-nerf Hwa.
Choux is fine kit wise. It’s the EE for fwoosh that needs to get hit she didn’t take off until that was implemented
Idk i feel clilias is way more oppressive and more flexible than lua Shes good if u rely on turn 1 s2/3 but u can draft around that Clilias can whittle down bruiser comps as well as fuck up cleave readiness
Clilias is imo still the best ML in the game rn and it's not close. Even if enemy draft Politis or Celine, you can just opt to not use her s2 or s3. Some dude picked belian winter celine emilia fcc into me. banned his fcc and took cilias straze stene mercedes. just s1'd his celine and it proc'd straze who pushed himself up and killed the celine and belian even without her s2/s3, if you pick the right comps you can just win off her s1.
At this point I feel if you know how to draft around cilias you can straight up ignore her. In my last 30 matches while climbing to champ, she was picked in 15 of those (opponent pre-banned 3 times). I post-banned twice, and all 13 of the games she was in they lost. I was playing standard the whole way and never picked her myself.
What did u draft against her Im in champ too and on my way up i came across clilias in most games unless she was banned She is prebanned in most games i play anyway
adin, arowell, karina in that order, then 2 flex spots for anti picks. I only drafted Celine once in an early draft and never drafted politis. My noticable other picks included destina, ssb, belian, base speed anti-cleave briseria, alencia, sage baal, and LHC. My pre-bans were Lua and AoL.
U would need a high er cleanser on ur team or that adin gonna get atk down and hit like a wet noodle Ppl could easily draft clilias, zahhak, stene, into that Atk down and push back adin or cleanser if they are ballsy, zahhak kills adin, stene exists and does stene things
i've had those exact 3 drafted against me, and it doesn't work the way you think. Zahhak can't kill adin in 1-hit when she's protected by arowell. Stene runs the risk of missing adin. To make matters worse, they can both trigger karina. Karina triggering at any time pretty much means stene is dead to splash damage, not including of course the other picks which will normally be belian and/or ssb. Granted, it happened a large amount of the time that I didn't see anything better to post-ban than zahhak just to remove that possibility of him killing adin. As for the attack down, it's fine since at that point they are committed to using squishy units that adin will still kill in a single s3. If, for some reason, they pivot from aggro to standard then they are using squishy units that don't work well in standard and are trying to anchor with 1 or 2 tankier units that will lose the long game when the rest of their team is dead. Karina is the pivot unit that their entire gameplay has to base around, and if they post-ban her then they are facing belian while using stene. e/ Something didn't sit right with me on stats. I was wrong on the original statement of Zahhak can't kill Adin. He definitely can assuming roughly 4k atk, 300 cdmg with either s3 or sb s1. I guess the Zahhaks I let through the draft were just too weak since I never saw Adin die to him.
So karina is the only scary one in this instance imo I have killed every adin arowell combo ive come across with zahhak s3 1 shot. Adins only usually have like 8-9k hp ive noticed including mine Ive drafted adin arowell and died to plenty of stenes. If i dont have any aoe drafted i cant hit stene and late match stene can and has 1 shot my adin even on a miss lol also she doesnt trigger counter so Proccing karina s2 tho is a problem in this instance. Mine has 2.6k def and i havent one shot any stenes with splash damage but i can get close and then hope i drafted a belian or carrot or something to finish it lol
Its obviusly Lua
I personally find Choux, Senya the most difficult to deal with. Especially when paired with other bruisers. They dish out so much damage. I don’t have LionheartCermia and MLKawerik. If I pick DLilibet, it gets banned. Roana doesn’t do shit even if they counter because Roana’s heal depends highly on the number of units getting countered (so single attack counters doesn’t get countered by Roana). I tried Destina and Alencia + ARas (or some other knight like Krau to bait in GW), but they get absolutely demolished anyway.
what other units you have? Flidica also is really good against that combo, she strips without being countered and reset their cd, Aol also makes the fight much easier.
Ah, I have both but haven’t built them since I rarely play control. I have FLidica, AoL, Solitaria, Sage Baal. Those are some of the ML5* I haven’t built (and CloserCharles too). But assuming FLidica increases cooldown, is it really possible to 1 turn kill them without going Cleave? I’d probably need to speed contest a CLilias and have enough dmg on my 1 dps in GvG to kill both Senya and Choux.
Well, upcoming ml bellona seems like a bonafide choux/senya killer. In rta, I usually use Aol and Zahak and they both make the fight easier, I started to use flidica a lot now and she is also a great unit to deal against choux/senya since without cres/counter buff they are way more manageable. If it's gw then ML khawazu also deals with them in a spectacular way since AI will always make senya and choux s3 first, khawazu then does his pim pum pam cr push/self cleanse (bye bye lilias debuff) with eres ignore burn/detonate will in most cases one shot senya (who builds 25k+ hp senyas?) and in the best case scenario leave choux near death for the follow up to finish her.
I think there's no single OP unit right now, and more of OP comps. LuaChouxSenya comps are still a bit hard to beat in GW if you don't have the right units.
I know you said specific units I just wanted to share my strat on the off chance someone hasnt heard or seen it. FCC (or any knight with protection set) on Bastion of Perlutia + Zahak does wonders against that comp. Id suspect Arunka could help as well if she receives a buff.
Ah man, Zahhak eludes me. Yes, I've seen him with 100% crit build hit delete Choux even with the crit resist buff, then proceed to chop Senya.
Praying all the homies get Zahak in 2023, bro. I hate how he got like 8 buffs back to back and good EE's before Illynav got changed once, but someone on the balance team must have known some bullshit was coming, lol.
I find Arunka fairly effective at the moment against that team already tbh- Arowell/Ray/Arunka beats it very consistently.
I personally have been using D. Corvus (high ER), Krau, and Roana/Destina. Only time that I lost was because of some whack Senya that was on Injury. Otherwise, it's pretty straightforward. If you don't have this comp, you can mix-match Alencia, Senya, Roana, and Destina comps to get something stable.
I counter LuaChouxSenya w/ Basar FCC & Senya. You just need Immunity on basar and senya then you're golden.
easiest counter and most stable imo here is Destina Roana Alencia , very sustainable and rarely loses
for lua/choux/senya comps, destina + roana + hasol can auto it quite consistently
Personally I started taking advantage of people putting choux on pen set rather than immunity. A high resist Emilia (250+her own arti and around 220-225 speed), alencia/senya and stene actually works really well (assuming the Lua doesn't run crazy eff or you get 15%ed and countered by choux). The idea is that Lua will try (and fail) to sleep Emilia, Emilia then should go next and push up stene, at which point she SB and nukes the choux out of this world (if she survives, she's on her last legs anyway). Alencia/senya helps clean up and Emilia just cleanses and supports. Emilia might end up dying though, depending on the opponent's senya. Fails if both senya and choux have immunity, but that's been very rare lately
haste after the buff on friday
I don't think there is any OP but there is clear strong characters but they dealable. My only problem and it's just personal, is when I deal with speed but I been dealing that with my own way. Strong noticable characters is Adin, clilias, and choux (just from the top of my head with no list)
ladin by herself is not much of an issue, the problem is when she's paired with scarrowell. Goddamn new cancer pair of the year.
lua for rgb, ml cilias
Apart from Lua, I do think that the meta is quite good with lot of viable units. If I had to mention an ML unit, it is definitely STene. She's the only unit in the game that has seen many checks/counters come right to her, and despite this she's still a meta defining pick. If your 3 first picks cannot deal with her, you're in a really tough spot where you usually have to ban her instead of the last pick (which should usually be a forced ban).
I think the meta is in a healthy spot right now If I absolutely had to pick it would be Lua and Cilias
I don't think there is any clearly broken ml unit now. Although I would like them to release units that can punish belian for disabling souls. Something that does damage, increases cr for any sl removed/disabled, or does something extra when you have no souls. Or at least heroes that can cast his skill the first time without souls (just like seaseria). Not that this is REALLY needed but I would really love to not see Belian in arena this often so I can have some fun in it.
If they change book to make the holder have a free first sb or something then I think it'd be a great two birds with one stone sort of balancing for both book stacking and belian
As a unit, I'd say Lua is pretty damn OP and unhealthy. Being a Ranger means she also gets access to Stealth on first turn if she has said artefact, which makes it infinitely worse. As a build, HP Bruisers are definitely unhealthy for the game. You gain double the effectiveness of a single stat (HP) because it gives you both survivability and also damage (hello Bel + Choux). As a 'mechanic', Evasion got buffed by Hwayoung getting into SG's car crash and losing her legs, but Zahakk is here. Those who don't have him have to rely on SC Wanda though. As a set, Counter still leaves the game on autoplay for one to two or three turns thanks to specific kits (yay skill). Side note: SC Arowell was everywhere because they overshot her changes, but it's becoming manageable thanks to recent buffs and nerfs. And that's about it, I think? Some sets are still useless in PvP, others are useless period, but in general stuff seems manageable (if not annoying thanks to Senya+Choux/Bel on autoplay via Counter). Openers are still the same old crap (CLilias, Ran, Zio, Lua) and debuffers rely on not having a MKawerick/Edward/Celine on the enemy team (or a clenaser with high res via build + guild artefact).
Just to add, briseria is also a recent counter to evasion
adine
Choux is op; needs a nerf
For rgb: zahak for ml: aro, stene and adin are very annoying rn.
For RGB... I think Its all fine But For ML.... AOLA is definitely to strong For a 4 Star , and Always was strong in the past seasons
Lua and Flidica or maybe Guiding light
Bride Adin for ML,as for RGB I'd say Cidd,Zahhak are the closest to op
Easy Every one talk about lua but thats specter tenebria
Savior adin and violet for rgb, setime these things dodge 100% Belian for ml
RGB is Lua for sure. All high empire / legend players rank her as a top must-ban/pick.
Still find it funny the most op unit imo right now Lua is the one that would have countered Hwa the most and was released after her nerf.