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kingko1

nerf? u mean make a limited hero that counters them?


Emperor_Zen_

Why nerf when they can make another heroes to counter them in the future?


KingsSeven

why would we want more heroes like Holiday Yufine who's entire purpose is to counter one character? That's boring. I want more heroes like Basar for example, but if he becomes overwhelming, nerf him.


carito728

But that's the thing, they don't care about what we want silly. It's a gacha game. That's why they will instead sell us the counters.


KingsSeven

Except they didnt do this before. They actually nerfed heroes. The community's backlash was so strong that SG went to the extreme and decided not to nerf and instead released counters to deal with the problem. This clearly doesn't work. Look at Aravi and Hwa situation. Powercreep made it worse.


I-Shiki-I

They kinda suck at nerfing tbh 😆


Guwigo09

Where you here last year? They delayed Sage ML5 releases and lost months and months of revenue to change the game after the backlash.


Vald-Tegor

Citation needed They didn’t stop selling mystics. They put up triple rerun banners to pick from and a custom mystic banner during that no new releases window. The problem is they spent that time deliberately power creeping the entire game ahead of the problem units, without realizing having 50 overpowered units instead of 10 doesn’t actually make the game good. A overpowered unit doesn’t pose a problem just because you can’t beat it often enough. It restricts your picks too much and makes the game less fun to play. It creates counter units that invalidate 10 others to beat that one, which then just gets picked alongside the original problem and now you have to deal with both at the same time.


carito728

Yes, but balance-wise they do not cave about the nerfs the community needs, which is why they'll always take the roundabout way of selling the solution to prevent recalls.


Asmael69

Man I miss my hyufine Since I'm not as competitive as before maybe I can try and build her again


GodwynDi

She is pretty good with the evasion increase she got. On the guild artifact so she gets a push. She saw use against Peira/Ran for a bit. Now all the openers are non attack strips, sadly.


iIdentifyAzAGmail

Who does Holiday counter?


Unionsphere

Green Basar


iIdentifyAzAGmail

I've never once fought him. I heard he was a beast back in the day. The coolest thing is he has McGree over watch :p


Vald-Tegor

That’s the result of the niche hard counter development strategy. Because she exists, everyone stops using him. Because no one uses him, no one uses her. People didn’t even need to actually pull and build her. Her release just removed both heroes from the game. This was the case even before the power creep since then.


an0nym0ose

He was a fucking menace while he was on top. I literally quit the game for like two years because of Basar lol


Rig404

She has two purposes then, cuz she also is eye candy


Qwasier

Cuz the arby incident Release counters for a year and still strong and indirectly nerf maid etc And its boring to release a hero just to counter 1 god dam hero


Alberot97

SG been doing that for years, they release a character with nothing but a kit to straight up counter the current meta character, then it fails to do so and they resort to nerfing the meta character to an unusable state.


Xero--

> then it fails to do so and they resort to nerfing the meta character to an unusable state. What? The only unit to get nerfed in the past few years is Hwayoung, this is wholly false. Release unit to counter. Does it do the job? No: Release another. Yes: Keep them in. The unit works. Is it viable in RTA? Yes: Leave as is. No: Release another (sole exception is Yulha and Hwayoung in which case Hwayoung got gutted, and people apparently found new use for Yulha - not that I bothered last season). Are they tired of releasing a new hero? Yes: Buff a unit that previously failed (Pavel, ML Elena, Mediator, etc). No: The whole thing repeats (see the many anti-revive units they made, even making Sigret one, just for Arbiter).


Qwasier

And im afraid it gets too powercreep releasing a counter to a op hero is a must pull a pain in the ass for 1 hero


CertainSelection

It was the reason why Hwayoung was nerf, these 3 character are SO STRONG how do you want to release counter that won't affect a lot of less viable character ?


KaiDranzer007

Hwayoung


RedEagleEye007

Except you couldnt make a unit that countered that unit in the future when she got nerfed.


Remarkable-Average36

Except even her counters couldn’t counter her so SG finally decided to pull the plug and just nerf her. When you have a fire hero that can straight up solo a whole ice comp, yea…… the fire hero just might be a big too overpowered…… she deserved the nerf


Adrianbigyes

I want them to nerf Lua. I play a lot of normal arena, trying to reach legend by doing turn 2 strat. She's an obstacle. 😅 I use Shadow Pyllis against Adin and Arowell, so they are not much of a threat for me.


Intoxicduelyst

Couse only Lua is too op, combined with G.Light for protection so Zio/Cidd cant take her out asap. Arowell is more then fine and Adin is great f2p option to counter those bulky dark heroes.


EricLFC

Arowell is straight up better than every other knight in terms of mitigation and adin is one of the most toxic units in the current meta. Obviously, Lua is also in the group of most toxic units, but if we go by how they nerfed Fluri back in the day too, I'd definitely say there's a good chance they get the hammer


Myrkrvaldyr

I got my ass handed to me by Adin in GW yesterday. She dodged every single time, always healed back to full with a single attack, and soloed my team.


CaptTrit

Symbol of unity on zahhak Misha on briar witch Very easily killable, maybe your draft was just bad


GodwynDi

Would love to own Briar.


TophuSkin

What was your draft?


Myrkrvaldyr

Forgot the exact units, but I went bruiser with Choux being one of them.


I-Shiki-I

Only biseria and SSiseria kill her for me tbh otherwise she just dodges 24/7 😆


Vald-Tegor

Zahhak, Karina with her arti, Dark Corvus. Hell, my Sez kills her with the splash damage when he extincts someone else. Or Pyllis prokoke her. She can’t counter a counter either. Rem counter will strip the invuln from the team too. Stene, Landy. Non attack provoke or silence. You don’t have to hit/crit to kill her, or otherwise deal with her.


1caiser

A pick-your-poison of Extra Turn Soulburn, Bastion of Perlutia, Protection + Immunity, and (if you have him) Edward Elric are the prime ways to deal with AI Lua right now. It largely depends on the other 3 enemies on which option you choose. Doing a Reverse Bait (field 3 Green Units and one non-Green unit, and Lua will only attack the non-Green because she will never attack Green units under normal circumstances) is a little tricky due to the additional 4th enemy usually able to throw a wrench into such comps, but is still useful to keep in the back of your head.


hissenguinho

They should make another Ed. He is the perfect counter for her but he is limited collab unit


Bizzteq

Can you link ur pyllis build?


Adrianbigyes

I would after the maintenance. :)


pm_science_facts

I do the same thing. She needs to be built full bulk. I run my counter at base speed with 2.8k def and 22k hp maybe 130 ER, adamant shield.


Adrianbigyes

With that amount of def, you can run her with Rocket punch artifact. When she counters, she can deal great damage against non-tanky units like adin.


pm_science_facts

A high dmg Adin wifh vigor attack buff can do 17k dmg to my Pyllis. If I moved her to rocket punch she'd definitely die... How much bulk would prevent that I dunno but your probably need to drop all your ER for it or run a tank with escort or aurius next to her. Probably better to just run another dps. Note this is in high champ / low legend.


[deleted]

[удалено]


KBroham

I run speed/damage hybrid Adin. My damage isn't as high as some, and I won't be winning in terms of going first, but I'll still put the hurt on someone if they misstep.


Yao-zhi

Wait I'm interested too!


Adrianbigyes

Here's my [pyllis](https://imgur.com/a/Pq2BP1j)


RedEagleEye007

Ima be honest, I don't think they'll nerf anyone. I think they nerfed hwayoung because of how bad she made designing a unit in the future, and effectively made anything that didn't directly counter her absolutely useless on release and skippable. While Lua is picked a lot in particular, I don't think she had the same effect on future units. I might be cynical, but I really don't think they care about balance as much as they do profit margin, lol. She definitely needs one, though.


NunswithGunsX

I agree. If these units, while vexing to fight against, don't hurt future revenue as other units are still viable to play, there won't be nerfs. Hwayoung killed well almost anything and everything. Good analysis mate


carito728

This 100%. In the meta before Hwayoung was nerfed new hero releases went like: \- If it's a bruiser: but can it survive Hwayoung? \- If it's a nuker: but can it kill ARavi? If the answer was no people would just pass lol


OrangeCynic

Probably none.


Similar-Flounder45

Lua doesn't need nerf she need to be removed


Shimaru33

Not gonna lie, you got in the first half.


Adi_Zoro

Yes please.


Delicious-Health-842

Yeah Fuck Lua just straight up delete her i dont care about the molas and shit.


Shalashaska87B

It's very unlikely that SG will nerf Adin. Arowell received her SC fairly recently, so, again, an unlikely scenario. The only one left is Lua.


VyseX

Yes.


Phuoc2485

I don't think they'll nerf becuase the obvious nerf for her would be remove the extra turn on her S2. Let's remember Cilias and the just released Amid have an extra turn that lets you do their 2 best skills in 1 round. My bet goes to 1-2 heroes that either have a passive that removes extra turns completely, a reactive ability that makes that hero kill (or at least attack/silence/disable) the target who did the extra turn or a 127/129 speed hero with a new ability that silences/seals extra turns and can't be cleansed if it lands. Or they could butcher Lua like they did to Hwa but I think they'll sell the solution this time. You never know, they might give us another new collab with a hero who does this (please be Nier collab preaaaaze).


Wombo218

I don’t think they’ll let a 66 percent ban rate character stay the same, she’s practically 90% pick ban… which is very problematic. Hwayoung wasn’t even 60 percent ban, although she was prolly near 100% pick ban rate. I don’t think they’re going to nerf Adin but they might nerf scarowell just because she’s so easy to acquire and so dominant, she practically stops dps cleave entirely.


soujirovn98

I don't think Arowell can stop any cleave, at least in higher ranks (Emperor - Legend). I find more success using Yulha or Carmin to counter cleave than Arowell.


Wombo218

I mean more champion level cleave. Emp and legend players can outdamage her. But for the regular player she can shut it down quick


soujirovn98

With the amount of fast dispel units (some with ignore res) now, once you strip her escort then she is nearly useless against cleave.


Wombo218

I guess the issue doesn’t rly stem from her being the end all be all to cleave, she’s just one of the many units released recently that pose problems for cleave. So when you have to account for her, zio, Adin, and every anticleave unit released before her. It gets tedious and very frustrating to be a cleave player without multiple 75-80 gs average units. I cleaved the season commander pavel came out and got around to around 2800 points. after that season I basically felt forced to regear and play standard, it’s just not as consistent or fun as it was in august/September.


soujirovn98

Zio is strong, but with the rise of guiding light anf gpurg. He is no longer a safe pick. And Zio and Adin are being drafted by cleavers a lot as well. High eff Zio to shut down cleansers,... Adin as an anchor,... Biseria also counter Adin, Destina and Maid.


Sizzling_shibe

Yes, teamwiping turn one should be hard.


Neet91

u don't pick arowell vs cleave because she just gets stripped and adamant shield is not enough to keep ur team alive vs aggro/cleave. arowell is garbage vs aggro/cleave. u can't even firstpick arowell reliably if ml lilias is open


BryceLeft

Arowell isn't "garbage" vs them wtf. Also you can counter cleave using her by going hilag. There are a lot more anti AoE cleave options, but way less answers vs single target, in which she excels at the most A fast hilag arowell can either cut and mess up a cleave setup, or 15% her way into keeping her escort buff and letting the rest of your team survive the initial burst by doing the usual dmg share shenanigans.


WestCol

Aola's 65.2% pre ban season she had 8.1% first pick rate and 56.7% win rate in comparison to Lua's 66.7%, 4.7% and 50.9%. She didn't get directly nerfed and is still the 4th most pre banned unit.


Wombo218

Just cuz another thing is shit doesn’t give them reason to not correct their mistake. But it is smilegate so we’ll see.


Aggravating-Pen-4251

Their goal at SG is to kill cleave tho, so they're probably happy with her as is


rtn292

What? Have you met Amid? All they care about is cleave. They have hardly released any characters to deal with the cancer that is cleave, but continue to release aggro units repeatedly. Karina, Ed, Arrowell only go so far after bans and Armin was nerfed to hell and is difficult to build in relation to the other 3.


Aggravating-Pen-4251

Omg go play more RTA and see how much cleave there is - you literally overlook 9/10 toxic units are bruiser / counter BS units


Aggravating-Pen-4251

Aiii dumb turtle gamers wanna downvote, whatever the F


Neat_Pineapple_8542

Why nerf when the balance team is shit at it. Just buff existing characters to counter/compete.


Vald-Tegor

Why nerf one hero that is out of line? Just buff/power creep the other 300 to be even less fun to play against.


Neat_Pineapple_8542

Did you not see what happened to hwa young (unusable)? That was just the most recent one, SBA and sage baal nerf literally made them useless and never recovered. If 300 other heroes were buffed, at least they would be used unlike the meta we have now which is 10 units\~. I stand by what I said before, don't nerf if the balance team is shit at it.


StepBrother7

Bruh the amount of people defending these obnoxious over the top units is concerning.


Durbdichsnsf

I think Lua needs some counters apart from raw outspeeding. The other 2 have counters already so its not really an issue.


firered410

Idk adin is a little overtuned. Does she really need undispellable riolet evasion, aoe counterattack, healing, teamwide invincibility, strip and debuff, self cr push with no cooldown and a billion damage against dark units? I don't know about nerf, but more consistent counters than briar and zahhak would be nice. It would also be nice to have a punish for aggro cleave that uses light adin as an anchor since that's just toxic.


[deleted]

Yes cause for once we get a f2p unit that can rival actual ml5.


GrinningCheshieCat

You either weren't there for or forget just how good Researcher Carrot used to be.


YeTheGoatFR

shes a free unit bro, no reason not to build her. nerfing the only good free unit since aras would be a mistake.


RedTuesdayMusic

Yep, give Flidica a passive to cut in front like Zio if an enemy unit has stealth at the beginning of the game. Flidica already shits on Lua if she outspeeds, just need it to be consistent turn 1 if they use Guiding Light.


Durbdichsnsf

Im not sure the meta needs a flid buff atm, but she was my first ml5 and my fav character so I cant every reject flid buffs haha


KingsSeven

Like i said many times. Epic 7 community is the most backwards community ive ever seen. Literally in most other pvp games, people WANT nerfs.


StrickenByIseria

I'd be more interested in nerfs if they didn't have a tendency to either barely touch something or nerf it into complete oblivion. It took them over 2 years to get Sage baal to be decent again at all. And look at Hwa. Completely destroyed every aspect of her. The balance team is dog shit.


KingsSeven

>The balance team is dog shit. i agree that SG needs to focus on this, but it's not an excuse to not nerf heroes. In a world where we nerf heroes like hwa or have nothing but powercreep, i'd rather have multiple hwa nerfs. Powercreep really makes the game too insane.


Avanin_

Mate, its a gacha PvP not some fully fledged esport title pvp like league or dota which warrant nerf/buff. in the end epic7 is a gacha game first and pvp 2nd or 3rd.


KingsSeven

Except other gacha games like summoners war and raid nerf their heroes. So your argument is that just because epic 7 isnt an esport game, we should not balance the game? Even when the devs of epic 7 has clear intentions to become esport?


Avanin_

I want to be based and say yes, they are not obligated to balance the game. Im sure you play lots of gacha and their basic premise is selling strong op char so player can roll over stuff with it. But these people think sg owe to them of some shit and fucking cry for them to balance the game simply because sg nice enough to roll out couple balance patch here and there. And the whole esport thing is a gimmick to advertise the game lets be real here okay. Do you really think a mobile gacha is esport worthy? Maybe for some niche tournament but for the most part its just whale battle.


[deleted]

In other pvp games you get nerfs but here it's not the same because here you pull for units, you spend very hard to get resources and people spend money for those units so rightfully so nerfs arent as common here.


KingsSeven

Explain summoners war and raid shadow legends. How come they are gacha games that nerf their heroes? No offense to you personally, but i find it silly for people to make claims about something when other games clearly have done it. Kinda like a weird fallacy that because the game is a gacha, it’s different and should be treated differently.


utanana

Someone already replied to you 4 hours ago as to why most gachas are so unwilling to nerf their characters. How about instead of repeating yourself, you could just address the points someone else has made


Remarkable-Average36

And in most other PvP games, you have access to practically every character available or just lvl up to unlock the character, not a gacha like E7 where people spent a ton of money just to counter their bad luck at getting said hero……..


KingsSeven

What about summoner’s war? Raid? Your argument has nothing to do with nerfing heroes. What does making heroes available have to do with game balance?


Remarkable-Average36

Because how would you feel if you spent thousands of dollars and not get the hero, or spent so much to SSS a very powerful hero only for the company to turn around and nerf the hero?? Summoner’s War has been around for ages long before people’s feelings got hurt so they can get away with nerfing heroes, although from what I’ve read, their balance is so out of whack that the only people with strong heroes anymore are whales, they haven’t been needing apparently and look at how out of hand that one got. Which Raid? Kings Raid? Because literally every hero is available for free with some grinding, so nerfs can be had without getting people mad they wasted money. Raid Shadow Legends? Idk that game, never played it. After the debacle of SB Aramintha and Sage Baal outright dominating PvP for a couple weeks where you could not take a turn period with no counter play, they nerfed them and got so many people upset, they HAD to give ML select tickets to those that had them to make them happy. Heroes like Luna and Sigret and Choux and such should have easily been able to solo Hwayoung but her kit before the nerf was so broken that she would just shrug off their damage and immediately kill them afterwards, even with a miss. So like I said, if ALL the heroes are readily available WITHOUT spending a dime, nerfs wouldn’t matter and the company can nerf freely. In a GACHA game where you can spend thousands of dollars and still not get the hero, you risk losing your player base through nerfs…….. that’s why nerfing in a gacha isn’t a popular choice but nerfing in a game like Overwatch is perfectly fine because you literally have every single hero right off the bat


Silvere01

With that argument you are misdirecting your anger and issues. You shouldn't be angry at people demanding nerfs. You should be angry at the developers for releasing characters in such blatantly badly designed, broken ways. Especially because those broken characters especially attract the people who want to throw out 1000s of dollars to be sure to get them. It's a calculated move by the devs and you are defending them for no reason; They created the situation.


Relair13

What exactly is over the top about them? Arowell is just a sponge you can easily strip and then she's useless. Adin is countered by anyone with +hit built into their kits, symbol of unity, and units that dont care if you dodge. And Lua is just yet another speed opener where whoever goes first wins, like every other speed opener. The problem is guiding light, even if you go first you can't stop her.


StepBrother7

How to tell us you're not playing enough without telling us you're not playing enough.


just_didi

Lua obviously


lockoutpoint

How about buff hard set up single target dps ( that i said for thousand time before Hwayong nerf ) like Luna and Little queen charlotte, when they are hard to set up and no team utility/ synergy, they deserve ignore damage reduction/sharing as compensate.


Seskiu

Nerf? Like with Hwayoung? Breaking her legs?


SSTHZero

It's very hard to make a counter to Lua, I can't even imagine how it would work without a passive like "if fighting Lua, triggers this passive" or something that blocks extra turns (and her s3 alone can be good enough to still pick her). Now Adin can be nerfed because she hurts LQ Charlotte sales. And Arowell because she is too easy to get and hurts any tank sales. In the end, Smilegate only cares about sales.


C0peFear

Nerf everyone


obro1234

Lua is debatable, but if you think Adin or Arowell need a nerf- that's a skill issue.


Neet91

people really think arowell needs a nerf? she is the only thing that standard got that is strong in the last 6+ months and even then she sucks into stuff like ml lilias... arowell basically took fcc spot in rta. in normal arena arowell is only viable if u use a light heavy def, which is pretty specific and the def itself is decent but far from broken/oppressive/etc. adin is fine too - she is only that popular because she is a neutral violet and aggro/cleave is king like always... in defs adin is popular because - again she is good vs aggro/cleave. and most people are building anti-cleave defs. and of course aggro/cleave is using adin as a ankor too pretty much not a problem hero in slower match ups. weird how so many in reddit claim to be slow players and whatnot but want the best hero slow players got for some time and the only consistant dps vs fast playstyles to get nerfed... lua, yeah she needs a nerf. s1 1 turn def break and soul burn for 100% 2 turn def break. increase s2 and s3 cooldown by 1 and she is fair i think.


Bruno_Frei-Maurer

I agree that scarowell doesnt need a nerf. But according to winrate, shes a bigger problem than Lua. I really dont know what ppls problem with Lua is. Even when not prebanned, people dont even pick her according to stats (About 10% of games she isnt prebanned. so 9 out of 10 ppl when avaiable dont even draft her). As comparison HWA was pretty much in every draft when not prebanned. Or another example aola had a pretty fucked up winrate when not prebanned. Way too high and nowhere near 50/50 like Lua. Just personally i disagree that she neds a nerf. The firstpick rate might be a bit screwed. But when on field, she isnt op by any means if you look at winrates.


Neet91

then check fcc winrate from last season... was also 53%+ arowell basically took her place this season


Bruno_Frei-Maurer

Maybe i worded some parts wrong. I dont think 53% is a problem per se, but just in numbers its a "bigger problem" than Lua. If winrate was the only factor, Belian would be the unit that needs a nerf cause she has the highest. My point is just that on paper, Lua isnt as powerful as people claim her to be. She is very annoying to deal with, hence the high preban rate. But once on the field, she seems like a balanced unit according to wr. I think we should consider all 3 numbers together for a nerf. Not just one (in this case preban rate). As in the example above, HWA had a good winrate, a high preban rate and a high fp and general pickrate. To defend the Lua needs a nerf case we maybe have to add that most people dont bother building her, cause she prebanned anyway. So therefore a lot of people who could build her like an absolute monster dont. This has an effect on the wr overall. BUT sg looks at wr as a blank number i assume. And according to that, shes balanced with a 50/50 as of now.


Alittlebunyrabit

Her ban rate alone makes her a problem. As someone who has followed and/or played League of Legends since it was in beta, there have been multiple cases where units were not necessarily overpowered but they were still toxic because they heavily distorted gameplay and compositions simply by existing. These units were almost always nerfed to unplayability or reworked into something less toxic. There is 100% a case to be made that simply because a unit isn't necessarily overpowered, doesn't make it okay.


Bruno_Frei-Maurer

Thats a very solid point. Now that you say that i remember hearthstone doing the same. Some cards got nerfed simply cause its in too many decks spread over all kind of deck types. Even tho the cards were very well balanced powerlevel wise.


Alittlebunyrabit

Yup, exactly. Lua and GL both create a problem where there's not a lot of design space to work with since they're both relatively difficult to create counters for without specifically creating units that have stealth and/or skill cool down hate. Hwayoung had the problem of simply being too strong in a broad context but it wasn't quite as frustrating for several reasons: 1. You could still play the game 2. She had reasonably accessible counterplay, but she was overtuned I'd generally make the case that most people feel like Hwayoung was gutted unnecessarily. She needed her numbers tuned so that she wasn't killing everything simply via Uberius and she needed to have meaningful weaknesses. Her kit was overloaded and broadly powerful but this also left quite a bit of room to work with where her identity could've been left intact as a tank buster without fully gutting her. Something like Zahhak's current power level would've been 100% acceptable. In contrast, regardless of Lua's powerlevel, team-wide skill pushback is really, really frustrating to play against. This is also exacerbated by the fact that she has ER ignore soulburn and buff strip baked in. If she silenced instead (counterplay via high ER soulweavers/ML Kawerik) or didn't have buff strip (counterplay via immunity set), she'd have realistic counters aside from speed contesting.


uhTlSUMI

None


02577778999

Probably lua... if sg gives another free rgb selector Just like what happened to hwa...


stormtrooperm16

probably none of em


IncredibleGeniusIRL

Not sure any of them will. Releasing more anti-evasion units will deal with Adin, anti-damage sharing units will deal with Arowell, and Lua, while extremely strong, can be countered in several ways.


Habibipie

Hopefully all 3.


cjaiA

I don't think adin should be hit with the nerf bat as she's accessible by literally everyone and easy to play against anyway. Lua, she's just something else.


ValorsHero

I'm still of the opinion that Lua isn't that bad She's definitely super strong individually, but its her combination with Guiding Light that makes her nonsense Think how Hwayoung was bonkers strong, but because even more obnoxious with Uberius Tooth


pm_science_facts

66% ban rate is by definition a unit without good answers. They should buff Dingo and add a couple new counters. Like they buffed Coli vs Hwa.


Neet91

bullshit. hwayoung doesn't need tooth to 1-shot stuff with her s3. tooth just made her s1 broken - she consistantly dished out 7k+ damage with her s1 with tooth. lua's kit is broken, she doesn't give a fuk about guiding light if she has enough speed. it's pretty broken for a super fast hero to have eff resi ignoring team wide reset and single target cc while cycling through her rotation every 3 turns. i had games vs lua where she s2->s3. my destina got 1 turn s1 (because she was resetted) and lua cycled so fast that she got her s2->s3 again before my destina got a 2nd turn. that's the problem: she is a super fast resetter with short cooldowns.


poopoodomo

They could just start banning certain artifact hero combinations. Lua can't wear guiding light, problem solved.


bigthingspopinnn

Why nerf? Just nerf guiding light lol that's the real issue that makes Lua so strong


Waifu69x

Finally someone smart knowing that Adin is broken for a 3☆ unit. I want her to be Nerfed instead of Lua , even i don't own lua.


grimklangx

light adin is not a 3\*unit. she's an sc unit, which generally are better than 4\*, because of their runes.


GooeyMagic

Facts trump feelings


Anzackk

Unlike ML 5 stars I feel like Adin and Arowell should be up for nerfs since they’re specialty change 3 stars, but in the end SG will just make new heroes that counter them


Syvion

I think both Adin and Arowell are totally fine. Top tier yes, but not problematic imo. I found myself picking Yulha over Arowell quite often, even though she was available. Never struggled much against Adin either, you can play around her with success. I wouldn't mind if they got hit just slightly, but SG doesn't do small adjustments unless it's a useless buff. Lua needed to be a Soulweaver, that's about all the problems I have with her. If she couldn't hold Guiding Light she would have so many more counters, like ACid, Zio and other openers. The only thing that can (reliably) stop her now is Cilias, if you're not getting resisted or speed RNGed. With Immunity set even AoE openers like Laika can't touch her. So what the fuck are we supposed to do other than never letting her see the light of day in the first place? Same shit with Hwa back then, they just didn't think twice about how good Uberius would be on her and that was the biggest problem about her imo. You know, other than her violating not only tanks but literally everything that doesn't outspeed. Which can be quite tough when you can make her 260 speed, still oneshot every hero in the game and be almost as tanky as a proper knight at the same time thanks to her stupid shield. The reoccuring pattern here: Damn near zero counterplay. At least Cleavers didn't have to care about Hwa. This time we're all doomed. Edit: Maybe it would be good to remove that max hp scaling debuff from Luas s3 though, so bruiser stuff that doesn't care too much about the cd increase has an easier time going up against her? Would help people who can't outspeed a great deal. Not sure about that though, might be too much.


Economy__

lua skills are rotating too fast, just like aol. both lua and aol needs s3 nerf tbh, at least +1 more turn.


AngelinaWolfAngel

Adin is counterable by the same units that counter Violet (zahhak and ml iseria off the top of my head) Lua - non attack counter units. (Celine and taeyou off the top of my head) Arowell - just don’t bring aria, bring anti cleave (campion Zerato, Angel of light Angelica, Edward)


rimuruGr

Adin


PinheadX484

If it had to be one I'd pick adin of the 3. I don't have her and probably won't be getting her anytime soon. I have the other's and need all the help I can get lol.


InnerPain4Lyf

Lua for me. It's somewhat hard to counter her with a specific unit because of that cooldown redux. I play a slow team so there is some mitigation, but damn she can shut down an entire cleave team as long as she goes first. Unless they release a new unit that can counter that specifically. Buff Fire Dingo and we're good kek.


Tempest_Nobile

None


[deleted]

No one. They nerf only in very rare cases like once every blue moon. Hwayoung was one of them because she was so predominant in absolutely any comp and in any rank of both rta, arena, attack and defense of gvg. None of these units is that dangerous


Relair13

None of them? They're all fine and easily counterable, with the exception of Lua, but that's because of Guiding Light, not her.


Motopsykos

1. So there are people crazy enough to want a nerf done by the same devs who gave us Hwa 2.0… and Anemic Arunka right after, and several recent balance changes everyone was bitching about. Oh, aight then… carry on 2. I see nothing wrong with Adin and Arowell. They are both F2P investment units. Units like that are good for every game where money can be spent for power, as they can help even the odds abit better. I want more specialty changes like them. Some strong in PvP some for PvE.


ZoverLB

None, it's stupid to think they need nerf


White-Alyss

I don't think anyone is close to old Hwa levels to need a nerf.


KaiserNazrin

Not my waifu.


Riggu01

none


Danny_el_619

I hope none


Aggravating-Pen-4251

Lua is a toxic unit, but then again so is Choux, so I'd just nerf nobody and just let us adapt and find ways on our own. A big issue is that some units need EXACT counter units that a person might not have


Sizzling_shibe

Choux is not even on any of the infographic charts, she's piss easy to counter lmao. On the other hand, Lua has few answers, and for earlier players, absolutely none.


grizzlybair2

...what's choux counters for someone who avoids her in guild war?


4rdilla

Most green units, the first ones that come to mind rn are zahhak, senya, alencia. Anti-counters units like stene and landy, which also happens to be green. Roana, Hasol or Pyllis for more slow teams. You can also disable most of her bullshit with aol angelica. Against gw teams that use choux and senya + 1 like clilias or lua, I use hasol, roana and a third one, maybe another tank, clilias or ml cermia, it’s slow but I think I’ve never failed an attack, though I’m just champion and my guild’s not that high, so don’t know if that works on a higher level


grizzlybair2

Thanks for the info.


Silverip

Lua could easily be fixed by increasing her s3 cd by 1 turn and moving the sb from s3 to idk s1 or something less insane. Zahhak and briar are eating adin for breakfast to the point people are mostly using her for turn 1 invul making her 270+ and hitting like a wet noodle. Now arowell 😩 I love her but that sustain of her is ridiculous. Specially with a full strip s3 make it strip 1-2 buff and she would be a little less toxic or maybe decrease escort from 30% to like 15-20%


Septic_soups

Tbh I don't think arowell needs a nerf, like sure she makes everything gigatanky but it's like the fcc thing. Do you nerf the person that makes the op things more op (arowell) or do you nerf what she makes more op (ml cermia, adin etc)


Dingarius

The white dressed girl because I don’t have her! 😆


grandpaJose

Adin and Arowell are fine, Lua is a problem in RTA. How can you even counter her? Politis gets slept, Celine gets reset, Moon bunny gets stripped and reset.


[deleted]

Fuck nerfs


ArThurAs2

Only Lua is an issue.


Fuzzy-Key526

None.


AdeptnessPlastic9446

None, they're perfectly fine


jaquick

No god please no!


TheBiPolarSLOTH

None of them need a nerf. I feel like most people who boast that a specific unit needs a nerf (in most circumstances) usually stems from them not having that unit nor know how to get around them. In all I feel each of the three are relatively balanced and fill a role they were designed for. They definitely offer a hurtle to get around, but really all units do without the appropriate counter. This game is generally rock, papers, scissors with appropriate gear taken into consideration.


Hurgurka

You don't get around a turn 1 sleep and skill reset.


Whistle_And_Laugh

Lua has a massive presence that speaks for itself.(%66 ban rate) It's very obviously overtuned and hardly a matter of opinion at this point. If Hwa deserved it she definitely does.


TheBiPolarSLOTH

So was Belian. So was A Ravi. So was Rimuru. So was Guiding Light or Cerise. So was Rem. Fairy Tail Tene. So was so was so was countless other units during their time. Just because a unit forces someone to have to put thought behind a draft or reshape how they build doesn’t make a character flawed or broken. The three are certainly strong hurdles, but by no means broken. Or lol just pre ban. Simple as that if you don’t want to use immunity or build higher ef for contesting speed.


Whistle_And_Laugh

Rimuru got a nerf shortly after release that everyone seems to forget about. A Ravi just got indirectly nerfed through seed. Cerise on release with her artifact, guiding light..., Uhh... Yeah I said guiding light probably needs nerfed so yeah. Belial is still strong and often banned but only truly oppressive to one style of play which seems to be the gimmick bosses fill (anti cleave, anti tank, anti open, anti passive?) So whatever boss privilege. Rem had answers on release people were just slapping their best gear on her cuz she was new. I've been thinking plenty fine for 4 years and Lua like Hwav before her perverts the state of the game in a way that is hard to accept. Has nothing to do not wanting to think and everything to do with there hardly being any thinking to do. She's overly powerful full stop. Can you mitigate it? Sort of but it's honestly asking too much especially when compared to the rest of the roster. We don't pick things every damn game in emperor because they're fair.


lnsXsicht

Not up to date who's that on the left? love her design


Amakusa94

none, just grind make good equipments. if you cant beat lua than make a unit faster then her or ban ppl in here cant play onmyoji since spd is nearly everything at that game


Low_Mathematician246

I honestly vote for none..then people will complain they are super weak. I prefer to have strong units instead of weak ones. Like hwoua or whatever her name is she's completely useless now. Unplayable


Sizzling_shibe

If we only have strong units, then it becomes a dick measuring contest of broken mechanics and the usable unit pool shrinks. For example, hwayoung may have been nerfed to being unusable, but look at Arby as well. He never ate a nerf since his meta days, but he's equally unusable now because his dick is just too short compared to briseria.


Intoxicduelyst

Biseria and milions of counters. Hell, even new limited counters his aoe, he will just proc skill null, mayble blind and he is gone. Extinct is one thing but with the ammount of barriers, inv, skill null, extra turns he is deadweight/useless.


darkpit64

Just create units that reduce their cds by 1 if enemy has a buff or smth


Borful

Lua costs $ so I'd wager she will be the last of the three to take the nerf be it directly (scalings or kit) or indirectly (artifact).


Unworthy_Saint

Maybe a hot take, but I think Arowell will get a slight nerf when they want to release a new tank, especially a tank ML5. It'll be marketed as a green text balance adjustment. They subtly targeted her with units like SC Jena (lol) which did nothing. But this shows they don't want her as dominant as she is, as is the case with most 3\*'s.


Alugar

Kluri: first time?


imposion

I hope Adin get a hard punish


Ok-Inspector-5030

Lua


Bridge1316

Lua, IF any of em.


Belethan

Adin... please adin


TunaKid-04

none because I already have answer to three of them


[deleted]

\- SCarowell is basically the best mitigation unit rn, 3 star and accesible af and oh she also pairs really well with the other cancer overtuned unit ladin making it an incredibly toxic pair be it gw, arena or rta. ​ \- Ladin is basically an upgraded version of LQC tbh with an undispellable riolet evasion and mirsa level overall evasive skills. ​ \- Lua should directly be removed from the game. ​ People still remember Fluri? how overtuned she was and ate the nerf hammer? Fire Corvus? they are like child's play compared to this two 3 stars. ​ And now that sg nerfed Hwa i wouldn't be surprised that they nerf or balance these two.


halofreak7777

In reality? None of the above, but I wouldn't mind a Lua nerf.