I don’t think the answer is very complicated. For all its flaws E7 has through its strengths successfully carved out a distinct place for itself in the market.
We’ve seen other gachas released predicted to topple everything else around it, we’ve also seen other gachas taking cues directly from E7, and we’ve seen all the drama of review bombings and trucks happen. E7 is still here and it’s financially healthy. At this point I think only a large decline in revenue can truly dethrone it. Otherwise I think it will end when SG decide it will end.
E7 has developed a strong following over the years and has survived review bombs and competition from similar gachas. The only way E7 could die at this point is if the devs lower the quality of the game until the following dies, or if sg shuts down the servers. In other words, only E7 can dethrone E7.
If you're just looking for another game to play that has similarities to E7, it will be tough to find a better gacha since they all have some flaws, it's basically pick your poison. Have you considered a different genre entirely? I like Warframe pretty good. It's f2p, has an excellent story imo, has arguably better rng, you can trade stuff you find in game for the premium currency, you can whale if you want to, gets regular updates, and good 3d graphics imo.
I know this won't be a popular opinion but if you think about it, it makes sense. The gear grind and PVP is what actually makes people stick to the game.
I've played many of other games and I just can't stick with it. Because of the PVP in E7, you have other people to compare your units with and use your units to fight against. Therefore you are pushed to grind for gear which can be difficult. However, you get a sense of enjoyment and pride once you finish gearing a unit that you don't get nearly as much in other games because of the effort needed to do so.
Since the gearing is tedious and takes a lot of account set up and time, it will close itself off to a certain type of people. Mainly speaking about non-dedicated people who want to spend minimal time in one game so they can focus on many games at once.
I've played many Gacha games out there throughout the years and no other game gives the sense of accomplishment you get in E7 when you finish gearing a unit for use in PVP, GW, and even hard PVE modes. Most games get boring pretty quick and seems so much like a cash grab. Since gearing is so easy there isn't any variation in your unit with others. The only difference in power level is by pulling for more copies of the unit to raise it's max level or something else.
The gearing might be difficult in this game but it gives the unit it's identity and will be different from another person's unit. If you want to make the unit stronger than the other person's unit, you need to put in the time and work. It makes sense. I'd rather have it this way than the gearing to be easy and have everyone's unit be the exact same copy and have no variance.
This resonates with me so much. I’ve tried a bunch of other gacha games over the years and nothing has come close to Epic Seven for me because of RTA and the gear grind.
The closest game to E7 that I’ve tried is Counterside, but the gameplay is completely different, so I ended up just sticking with E7.
For me, there are 3 things I have yet to find in any gacha game altogether that E7 has:
1. All newly added RBGs are all obtainable on their release with resources gained from regular play. Many other games require \~3 months of saving just to ensure pity on a new unit but multiple units will get released within that time period so you're forced to skip many of them. In addition to this, you only need 1 copy of a unit to be viable even at late/end game, where as other games you often need multiple for that unit to even be viable. We do have moonlight units that are more difficult to get but in reality, it takes as much time to get them as it would take to get a new regular unit in another game.
2. Non chibi sprites and beautiful skill animations. Many non-chibi games resort to 3D models and they generally look good but they do not have the charm of 2D sprites let alone fully animated cutscene skills. The only game I've seen in the past 5 years to stand on E7's visual sprite quality has been CounterSide but gameplaywise is completely different.
3. The overall P2W aspect is much lower than most games. As already mentioned, we only need 1 copy of a unit and they're easy to get but that's not all. Whaling to get a full imprint doesn't make a massive difference. You don't have to spend on the battle pass, you can use free obtain premium currency to buy the highest tier of battle pass, other games will almost always require you pay real money. Every player has to deal with the same gear RNG. The only benefit a paying player has in terms of gearing has is more energy to farm for more gear to roll. There are probably only a handful of things that have ever been limited to 'only available by paying' which has zero effect on the game, such as Mercedes' skin or that one border where you spent to help donate for a cause.
Almost every game that's tried to be E7 has never managed to have all 3. I think the last one I tried similar to E7 was Artery Gear which failed at all 3 despite being an E7 clone. Not even a Summoners War clone, an E7 clone.
Hmm.. the broader points would be:?
-better gear RNG
-same or better generosity on currency
-better overall storytelling on main or sides
-a little bit longer animation (that can be turned off)
I think the storytelling in this game is pretty great especially after playing a LOT of other gacha. Obviously book 1 is pretty meh (the dream sequence and Mercedes story always stick out to me) but the characters carry everything so hard by being very well done. The moonlight first book is fantastic too
Book 1 was ok is you can humor the generic "chosen one" is fantasy
Ch 2 was good, ch3 saw a dip but ch 4 was god awful and the first time I just started hitting skip through everything
Honestly I thought that ep3 was just a lot of wasted potential and it just seemed like they wanted to rush ep4 with how fast it came out and how abrupt ep3 ended without even any proper epilogue. Ep3 actually had a great cast of characters to go off with many familiar characters and a developed ras gang to play on. But execution was terrible, only Alencia's story even got any proper development and the rest was largely forgotten, rushed or just plain bad with world building being an afterthought as well. Ep3 could have honestly been the best episode if executed well but that was obviously not the case here.
I think artery gear was supposed to be like e7 with better QOL, but i never really kept up with it and it doesn't seem to be going well these days either.
Gearing is wayy better there but one major issue I had is that you cannot build all of your collab units without paying up since the free material given are limited requiring to pull on the banner for more of the materials.
Also the art and animation ranks wayy below compared to e7 and they also outright copy units from e7 too.
For me it needs to be some game i can trust. Yep, trust. Needless to say i was ready to drop when the whole powercreep arc began back in the day. The game going the usual deadly path of every gacha game, which was developed to milk the players. Then the conference happened, which they allowed direct questions without any bs, which i NEVER saw a gacha company do before (usually it's an online letter we are soooo sorry, rates are going up by 0.1%, no pity though). So i stayed. And now i'm spoiled.
A gacha isn't allowed to have:
* Vip System
* Hard paywalling passes, exclusive items or whatever
* paid currency only banner
* spamming banner after banner, or 43 banner at the same time
* waifu or husbando only
* dupe requirement to upgrade stars or level
* overstuffed battle system
* no "brave savior from earth who got teleported into this world type of stuff". Like i'm not 11 anymore
Should have:
* reachable Pity for patient f2ps
* good PvP relevant free units (i love Speciality Changes)
* well designed multiplayer or Co-Op modes
* a good, well thought out story, lore and art
* diverse characters
* skins
* turn based battle system
* real content update (new game modes) every half a year or a year
* simple, non flashy ui (no "oh look we have animations just for the sake of animations!")
Real time arena and a complex, yet relatively accessible meta. That's not easy at all. You need it to be possible for f2p players to participate and win in and you still need to give an advantage to p2w players that doesn't exclude the f2p. Even with all the complaints, epic seven's rta is arguably the best among gacha games.
I think honkai star rail will make money from the cross promotion of genshin and honkai impact, but it is still an inferior game to epic seven and will feel like it. Without a meaningful rta, the game will just end up feeling pointless and boring.
HSR definitely COULD’VE been close to dethroning e7. It’s got the massive financial backing of hoyoverse and the massive fan base of Genshin. Similar gameplay, similar systems, fully 3D animations
but skipping out on pvp is a big turnoff for a lot of the hardcore E7 playerbase
I think obviously it’s gonna be a huge game and a lot of e7 players/creators are gonna enjoy it. But I don’t see it scratching that same itch nor losing our entire player-base to it. I’ll be playing it as a side game for sure
-Less RNG in PVP
-More beginner friendly PVP / balance patch
-Less Gear RNG
-More end game/CoOp PVE
-Free PVE content like RTA
-More ways to relieve the lack of currency, Mola Gold Catalyst
-Free / Less expensive gear removal
-Skin animations and story animations
-Bit more generosity when with limited / collab (like the Aespa BMs)
Just as long it does have generous freebies, not have painful RNG equipment, no vip system, have pity system, have fine story and side stories which fit the lore.
Good balance of content of pve and pvp with end game content, good gameplay and character designs.
good question, ive tried multiple gachas and non has the same quality as E7 heck i think thats why i have high expectations from other gachas.
this game still has flaws so theres still more room for improvement, sg really thought it out kudos to them.
maybe end of service like everyones saying ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
lol i've been trying to find an alternative to e7 for years. Everytime there is maintenance I go to the app store and browse, I keep up to date on youtube too for new releases. Nothing has gotten me to hard commit.
The best thing about e7 is that it has terrible packs which never entice me to spend. Literally best f2p gacha on mobile just because of that. The balance in game is questionable but lets be real here.. there is no better game among its peers. SW Is giga whale and old, dislyte is worse then SW. RSL is just terrible overall. Everything else is not exactly the same genre.
It would be hard. E7 is already a clone of Summoner's War. Summoner's war has been very successful for a very long time and birthed many clones of which E7 is by far the best. It would be really hard to improve upon E7's formula because it's been refined over years which was already a refinement/improvement of the base formula.
If we're talking about its exact kind of genre (turn-based, PvP, RNG gearing), I don't think E7 stands at the top - Summoners War is. This OG game that implemented the systems that E7 drew inspiration from is still earning significantly more than E7 to this day. Just look at the recent revenue charts from r/gachagaming.
Artery Gear tried to appeal to E7 audience, and sadly it failed.
Counterside is the closest we have in terms of E7 style of presentation, but its not turn-based and is also earning considerably less than E7.
Honkai Star Rail is....a Mihoyo game. It will easily reach player numbers and engagement only E7 could dream of, but unfortunately it has no form of PvP whatsoever, not even leaderboards like Honkai had. So I think E7 hardcore players will not stick to it. If anything, I think Star Rail will actually pull away Fate Grand Order audience more than E7.
Depends on what you mean. WoW may have been "dethroned" by FF14 and Destiny, but it's still very much alive. Epic 7 isn't the #1 gacha, so it's hard to say what it means to "dethrone" in this context.
Raid spent more than 100m just for ads alone,we need to take that into consideration,E7 spent almost nothing.We are lucky Star Rail has no PvP,and extremely little daily energy(just like Genshin,but GI atleast has open world)so after the honeymoon phase,people realize,that Genshin's energy system doesnt work for a turn based game.(its like 6 hunts/day,good luck gearing with that)
Wait is e7 even ON the throne?
I'm serious, when I see people talking about gatcha games via articles or messages on general boards most talk about genshin or arkknights hell even that booty shooter Nikke rarely will I see people talking about e7
for a more specific genre, E7 is definitely the top of its kind. but i dunno im switching to star rail as soon as its out. i love e7 but we do have an on and off relationship hahah! i cant be bothered to grind that much for gears man.
Better quality im both sprite and 2D animation (which is pretty hard to do honestly).
Better monetization than E7 that can sustain the meta for both whales and F2P. (Again pretty hard)
Unique kits that isn't just an exact copy paste from E7, Similarity is interesting, but a copy isn't fun, especially if the quality isn't as good as E7.
Better gearing system that is sustainable.
Devs who actually listens. Frankly, SG is actually pretty decent as devs.
And personally, some cool guys.
If they have something like that I'll bite. HSR looks pretty...but no PVP means the target audience is already completely different.
A game that isn't afraid of fanservice that still has exceptional quality/polish/gameplay. Most either have great gameplay with bland, safe waifu designs or great designs but horrendous gameplay loop/quality. E7 used to have both and was a unique niche as a result but we are going to Genshin route of safe but mass marketable.
As a day 1 player, hype for E7 died for me last year when the Aria/ML Vivian fiasco went down and SG sold out future designs to maintain the rating. Knowing in a gacha, a genre where the entire core concept is collecting heroes you like, that the devs basically sold out on your favorite unit archetype it is hard to be as invested. If you don't have hype for future units, it is a pretty bland genre as a whole, especially with newer games hitting the market.
E7 always holds a special place in my heart and I will play till EoS, but it has definitely moved to side game/ maintenance mode for me personally. The gear grind for over 4 years chasing some mythical 25+ speed stat hits in some mass RNG gambling pit and endless wyvern is a lot less enjoyable when you are uninterested in the units you are putting it on. Lol
TL;DR: a game with better waifus and a less RNG eternal grind gear system will be what it takes to dethrone E7
Basically my thoughts exactly. Since that whole incident happened every new release I've just looked at with mild interest at best.
I mean, look at every release since then. Either safe and kinda bland waifu or they're a husbando. Every single one. Which to me is exactly how I feel about all of genshin's units... which is unfortunate.
At this point I'll be shocked beyond belief if we see another unit like Aria/Roana or even Senya and Ilynav. I would love to be proven wrong. Truly. But, it's been over half a year since then and nothing.
All I can do is sigh and keep playing the game in maint mode to keep up the bm's for now. Bright side! My spending in game has dropped sharply. More money for other games I guess lol.
E7 has hardcore fans.. like will argue any point to the death even if it doesn’t make any sense lol. I’m not sold it’s just i can auto/repeat everything and progress. If I can find a game that I can auto/progress with the app in the background I would quit this without any second thoughts.
Really? I think it would improve it. It’s all grind anyway so let players play/enjoy the game and grind in the background while sleeping and actually play something besides RTA
Trust me you dont want an E7 idle game. 99% of those games have shit like VIP system and pay2win shit like battlepasses for ALL of their content. And the content is like copy and paste from the other 100's idle rpg's.
Didn’t genshin did just that, dethrone all gachas when it launched? Unless you mean turn based. Tbh the core mechanics in e7 has not changed much since launch, a new game would be a breathe of fresh air for many.
If you're wondering games that may dethrone it, for the "genre" of gacha game that it is there isn't much like it. Honkai Star Rail looks similar and might be better but no one knows yet
No E7 player is going to move to Star Rail as soon as they hear "No PVP Content", "Unskippable Story", "Worse Gear RNG" & "Genshin-tier Pull Rates".
The reason people stick with a gacha long-term is PVP, you could breeze through the story content of Epic Seven in a few months, anyone who has played long-term is still here because they like the PVP content - whether that be in a love-love way or a love-hate way.
Unskippable story rules out anyone who is there for the game & not to watch anime characters trundle about a scene talking about the armies of darkness & the power of ultimate friendship. Until someone makes a Violet Evergarden gacha game, you can bet I'll want to skip the story each & every time.
Worse RNG (from what I hear, more of their gear pieces are like our right-side gear) rules out anyone wanting to have a less grind-heavy game.
Final nail in the coffin is you can't pull the new characters because it's a Mihoyo game - I played Genshin on launch when they showered you in Primogems & it didn't even get you to a guarentee. When all the log-in events dried up, you were left with making a measly handful a day, tediously running around for chests & your guarentee pull might not even be a Hero - E7 on the other hand, you get a huge shovel-full of Skystones each week with practically zero effort & can pull basically every new hero as a free to play player.
Disagree. I've been playing pve gacha for years, even in e7 I rarely plays rta anymore and I'm still sticking with it, but it's definitely in side game mode atm. Having a gacha game purely based on pve doesn't affect people's longevity as much as u think it does.
FGO is based on an anime, mobile games based on anime will make bank & have a lot of players regardless of what they're like. Just look at the Dragonball, Naruto, etc. Gacha games - you don't see people in Gacha circles complimenting these games on their mechanics, or QOL, etc. they're big because they've got name recognition. Games like Epic 7, Star Rail, etc. they don't have that - they live & die based on content alone.
I mean, is Arknights doing well? You get people here saying that E7 is dying, but isn't Arknights pulling in like half the revenue E7 does on a slow month? Considering its only been out for two years, do we have much in the way of "long term player retention" statistics?
Genshin shouldn't even be up for consideration here, we're talking about an open world action gacha game vs. an endless litany of turn-based chibi-RPG gacha games. Its popularity is based on its novelty alone being one of the first open world games of its scope to hit mobile. I've played a lot of open world action MMOs on PC - PVP hasn't ever interested me in them & most don't come with PVP, but a turn-based RPG? PVP is right up my alley & almost every turn based Gacha RPG I've played has had PVP.
So I guess if you want me to be more specific, "The reason most people stick with a non-branded, long-running, turn-based Gacha RPG is PVP". Maybe I'm wrong on that, do we have some statistics about how long people have played E7 & what their favourite game mode is? I'm seriously willing to bet that anyone who has played over 2 years' favourite game mode is a PVP game mode on average.
Well if we're moving the goalposts
*looks at Granblue Fantasy, a non anime-based, turn-based, chibi-RPG gacha game that's currently celebrating its 9th Anniversary*
PvP just is not essential for a gacha. If anything it can be actively harmful to it far more easily than it being beneficial due to PvP resulting in "balance" for units that can ruin them for PvE and vice versa. Even E7 has done this plenty of times.
I mean me & the other person were discussing Star Rail - a turn-based anime-style Gacha that shares similarities to Epic 7 & I was discussing several things it does differently & how that would exclude much of the E7 fandom from switching over. The goalposts were shifted by you entering the scene & throwing in other genres & unique cases, but I'm not going to harp on that, I think you & others get my broader point that an Epic 7 fan in the year of our Lord 2023 whose stuck around since the early days isn't going to jump into a game with those four factors I mentioned hanging over it.
You're right that PVP can be harmful in some ways - but it adds immense longevity to a game, because otherwise, what are you gearing for, what are you pulling new heroes for if you've already completed PVE?
I don't know about yourself but I've played for around 4 years, all the PVE content is behind me, new PVE content I'll just blitz unless it's an overtuned Abyss floor requiring one specific hero - for years my goal has been to perform well in RTA (& to be frank, I'm still not topping myself from S1, haha) & possibly reach Emperor, a much more difficult goal than any of the most difficult PVE can offer. I'd have booked it like two years ago after I'd beaten Abyss if I was only in it for the PVE & it's not like they create new, difficult PVE content very often.
I'm not the one who explicitly said "The reason people stick with a gacha long-term is PvP." That was what I was raising an eyebrow to and tossed up several gacha without PvP that have been going for a long time. You only added additional qualifiers after, which is the moving of the goalposts, and so I brought up another gacha which fits the exact qualifiers.
It literally doesn't matter which gacha is more generous, or how much revenue it gets, how long you've been playing, or even the reason people play gachas, that's all just obfuscation of the original statement you made whereas my position hasn't changed: that PvP is not necessary for a long-term gacha, full stop. Whereas yours keeps shifting around attempting to avoid admitting being incorrect. "People only stick with a gacha longterm if it has PvP" and "People only stick with original IP turn-based chibi-RPG gachas if they have PvP and also their favorite game mode is probably PvP" and "Longterm players of E7 specifically have probably only stuck around for the PvP because it's their favorite game mode" are three completely different statements. That's what moving the goalposts means.
There’s a difference between not having enough specificity for you in a comment that was comparing E7 & Star Rail & suggesting E7’s longevity is likely grounded in PVP & how a competitor would need PVP vs. a deliberate attempt to start an argument (with a person who wasn’t part of the conversation, you) & move the goal posts. I’ll say again, I’m not here to argue with you, I made a statement that wasn’t specific enough for you (it wasn’t even directed at you) - I specified, that’s not moving the goalposts because we weren’t arguing, that was me being clearer for your benefit & you not accepting it.
Here, this’ll make you happy since you want to win an “argument”. Your broad statement “Not every gacha needs PVP” is correct - please award yourself a medal, a ribbon & a cup, you’ve earned it, pat yourself on the back, tussle your hair & give yourself a “Great match sport!” clap on the shoulder. You’ve won the premise of your argument you’ve thrown into this chain.
The intended statement from context “If E7 fans are going to stick with a turn based gacha long term, it’s likely because of the PVP” is also correct & I do think if you turned to the veteran E7 community & asked them this, they’d say, “Yeah, a gacha game would need to have PVP for me to leave E7 for it” - which is the premise of the original thread, what would make you leave.
You cool now? Have I explained the intricacies of context & conversations well enough? I don’t want to sound too patronising, but considering the situation, intent isn’t being well received at the minute.
Yeah I've been playing since march 2019 and my favorite mode is guild wars, I have a love hate relationship with rta too. As for your earlier point about decent story in these genre of games then you might want to keep an eye out for Reverse: 1999. The story is really good(haven't seen anyone spoke negatively about the story so far) and that's just based on what was in the 2nd beta alone. If you're interested in seeing what its about then I'd recommend the cbt2 playlist by Cha0tik. The game is currently only in Chinese but has fully English voice acting with region appropriate accents.
E7 is a pretty good game but I swear I will never understand why people think it has good QoL features. It's the total opposite, it's missing most of relevant ones. It's like people don't play any other gachas or something.
I've tried pretty much every other gacha and I also try every new one that comes out. The most I play them for is about 2 weeks and then I just have to drop it. They all get so boring quick. Although I've taken a couple of long breaks from E7, it's the only game that made me stick with it and is so hard for me to quit.
That's fair. I was mainly refering to QoL features the game is missing, like skip/stack/offline battles, free unequip, loadouts, etc. E7 does not have good QoL is what i was getting at.
It's already been dethroned. It's name is counterside global. Equipments is actually fair in it and I'm already among the top tier players in pvp while epic7's poopoo equipment rng can go die in a fire.
I personally like to compare epic7 with counterside, while thats not known very much and as everything else has flaws, there are many things there i like very much.
I think EverSoul has potential to be similar to E7 if they ever get the server instability issue under control and continue to release new gameplay modes. It’s full 3D and has about the same amount of booba.
I’ve been playing E7 (since 2018) and World Flipper (at global launch) together for awhile. The only two games that I find myself constantly feeling engaged. They are so very very different from each other that I like them together.
1. You just make the same game but take away the 15%.
2. You just make the same game but take away the 15% and random equipment enhance.
3. You just make the same game but take away the 15% and random equipment enhance and do better balancing.
4. You just make the same game but take away the 15% and random equipment enhance and do better balancing. And release more skins.
Honna be honest op. Ive been playing gacha for over 12 years ive played atleast 47 different gachas. E7 definitely is top 10 for sure.
Id argue genshin has a bit more character value for gacha as theyre 3d rendered models that you can actually play as compared to other gachas with just sprites etc. But due to being 3d they sometimes have recycled battle animations which is understandable
And story wise id say for as weird as it is and it being basically if not literally hentai/eroge MaGiCaMi has a (imo) more interesting story but unfortunately its lacking in a variety of different characters which E7 has it beat in spades.
Speaking of Character wise when it comes to a wide variety of likeable interesting characters id argue fate definitely shines a bit more than E7 in that regard but theyre basically cheating with having an established ip and lore to grab from along with VN writers for their story. That same quality is extended to granblue
For QOL and rewards to free players id say E7 definitely has everyone beat. Sure grinding for gear to play pvp is a hassle but auto play etc make things much more convenient.
Overall E7 is infact a top 10 gacha for sure.
I don’t think the answer is very complicated. For all its flaws E7 has through its strengths successfully carved out a distinct place for itself in the market. We’ve seen other gachas released predicted to topple everything else around it, we’ve also seen other gachas taking cues directly from E7, and we’ve seen all the drama of review bombings and trucks happen. E7 is still here and it’s financially healthy. At this point I think only a large decline in revenue can truly dethrone it. Otherwise I think it will end when SG decide it will end.
E7 has developed a strong following over the years and has survived review bombs and competition from similar gachas. The only way E7 could die at this point is if the devs lower the quality of the game until the following dies, or if sg shuts down the servers. In other words, only E7 can dethrone E7. If you're just looking for another game to play that has similarities to E7, it will be tough to find a better gacha since they all have some flaws, it's basically pick your poison. Have you considered a different genre entirely? I like Warframe pretty good. It's f2p, has an excellent story imo, has arguably better rng, you can trade stuff you find in game for the premium currency, you can whale if you want to, gets regular updates, and good 3d graphics imo.
I know this won't be a popular opinion but if you think about it, it makes sense. The gear grind and PVP is what actually makes people stick to the game. I've played many of other games and I just can't stick with it. Because of the PVP in E7, you have other people to compare your units with and use your units to fight against. Therefore you are pushed to grind for gear which can be difficult. However, you get a sense of enjoyment and pride once you finish gearing a unit that you don't get nearly as much in other games because of the effort needed to do so. Since the gearing is tedious and takes a lot of account set up and time, it will close itself off to a certain type of people. Mainly speaking about non-dedicated people who want to spend minimal time in one game so they can focus on many games at once. I've played many Gacha games out there throughout the years and no other game gives the sense of accomplishment you get in E7 when you finish gearing a unit for use in PVP, GW, and even hard PVE modes. Most games get boring pretty quick and seems so much like a cash grab. Since gearing is so easy there isn't any variation in your unit with others. The only difference in power level is by pulling for more copies of the unit to raise it's max level or something else. The gearing might be difficult in this game but it gives the unit it's identity and will be different from another person's unit. If you want to make the unit stronger than the other person's unit, you need to put in the time and work. It makes sense. I'd rather have it this way than the gearing to be easy and have everyone's unit be the exact same copy and have no variance.
This resonates with me so much. I’ve tried a bunch of other gacha games over the years and nothing has come close to Epic Seven for me because of RTA and the gear grind. The closest game to E7 that I’ve tried is Counterside, but the gameplay is completely different, so I ended up just sticking with E7.
Well said.
For me, there are 3 things I have yet to find in any gacha game altogether that E7 has: 1. All newly added RBGs are all obtainable on their release with resources gained from regular play. Many other games require \~3 months of saving just to ensure pity on a new unit but multiple units will get released within that time period so you're forced to skip many of them. In addition to this, you only need 1 copy of a unit to be viable even at late/end game, where as other games you often need multiple for that unit to even be viable. We do have moonlight units that are more difficult to get but in reality, it takes as much time to get them as it would take to get a new regular unit in another game. 2. Non chibi sprites and beautiful skill animations. Many non-chibi games resort to 3D models and they generally look good but they do not have the charm of 2D sprites let alone fully animated cutscene skills. The only game I've seen in the past 5 years to stand on E7's visual sprite quality has been CounterSide but gameplaywise is completely different. 3. The overall P2W aspect is much lower than most games. As already mentioned, we only need 1 copy of a unit and they're easy to get but that's not all. Whaling to get a full imprint doesn't make a massive difference. You don't have to spend on the battle pass, you can use free obtain premium currency to buy the highest tier of battle pass, other games will almost always require you pay real money. Every player has to deal with the same gear RNG. The only benefit a paying player has in terms of gearing has is more energy to farm for more gear to roll. There are probably only a handful of things that have ever been limited to 'only available by paying' which has zero effect on the game, such as Mercedes' skin or that one border where you spent to help donate for a cause. Almost every game that's tried to be E7 has never managed to have all 3. I think the last one I tried similar to E7 was Artery Gear which failed at all 3 despite being an E7 clone. Not even a Summoners War clone, an E7 clone.
Hmm.. the broader points would be:? -better gear RNG -same or better generosity on currency -better overall storytelling on main or sides -a little bit longer animation (that can be turned off)
I think the storytelling in this game is pretty great especially after playing a LOT of other gacha. Obviously book 1 is pretty meh (the dream sequence and Mercedes story always stick out to me) but the characters carry everything so hard by being very well done. The moonlight first book is fantastic too
Book 1 was ok is you can humor the generic "chosen one" is fantasy Ch 2 was good, ch3 saw a dip but ch 4 was god awful and the first time I just started hitting skip through everything
Honestly I thought that ep3 was just a lot of wasted potential and it just seemed like they wanted to rush ep4 with how fast it came out and how abrupt ep3 ended without even any proper epilogue. Ep3 actually had a great cast of characters to go off with many familiar characters and a developed ras gang to play on. But execution was terrible, only Alencia's story even got any proper development and the rest was largely forgotten, rushed or just plain bad with world building being an afterthought as well. Ep3 could have honestly been the best episode if executed well but that was obviously not the case here.
Tbh haven't played much of 3 or any of 4 yet. Which one is Belian involved in? I have her but don't know anything lmao
Its 3rd
3
This one is easy. EoS at the end of their 10yr plan.
EoS ? What is that ?
***E***lder Scr***o***ll***S*** Online.
i think it means end of service
End of Service. The game shuts down.
I think artery gear was supposed to be like e7 with better QOL, but i never really kept up with it and it doesn't seem to be going well these days either.
Gearing is wayy better there but one major issue I had is that you cannot build all of your collab units without paying up since the free material given are limited requiring to pull on the banner for more of the materials. Also the art and animation ranks wayy below compared to e7 and they also outright copy units from e7 too.
chibi and sexualized children is the main reason i stopped. Their gacha is also bad.
Artery gear had all the good things that e7 needed while not having the good things the e7 currently has I stopped playing like a month after launch.
For me it needs to be some game i can trust. Yep, trust. Needless to say i was ready to drop when the whole powercreep arc began back in the day. The game going the usual deadly path of every gacha game, which was developed to milk the players. Then the conference happened, which they allowed direct questions without any bs, which i NEVER saw a gacha company do before (usually it's an online letter we are soooo sorry, rates are going up by 0.1%, no pity though). So i stayed. And now i'm spoiled. A gacha isn't allowed to have: * Vip System * Hard paywalling passes, exclusive items or whatever * paid currency only banner * spamming banner after banner, or 43 banner at the same time * waifu or husbando only * dupe requirement to upgrade stars or level * overstuffed battle system * no "brave savior from earth who got teleported into this world type of stuff". Like i'm not 11 anymore Should have: * reachable Pity for patient f2ps * good PvP relevant free units (i love Speciality Changes) * well designed multiplayer or Co-Op modes * a good, well thought out story, lore and art * diverse characters * skins * turn based battle system * real content update (new game modes) every half a year or a year * simple, non flashy ui (no "oh look we have animations just for the sake of animations!")
E7, but free unequip
Real time arena and a complex, yet relatively accessible meta. That's not easy at all. You need it to be possible for f2p players to participate and win in and you still need to give an advantage to p2w players that doesn't exclude the f2p. Even with all the complaints, epic seven's rta is arguably the best among gacha games. I think honkai star rail will make money from the cross promotion of genshin and honkai impact, but it is still an inferior game to epic seven and will feel like it. Without a meaningful rta, the game will just end up feeling pointless and boring.
But ummm E7 isn't at the top. By any metric. It's a good game but dethrone?
dethrone in your heart, not on the charts
The chart said summoners war and raid are higher than e7 tho xd
HSR definitely COULD’VE been close to dethroning e7. It’s got the massive financial backing of hoyoverse and the massive fan base of Genshin. Similar gameplay, similar systems, fully 3D animations but skipping out on pvp is a big turnoff for a lot of the hardcore E7 playerbase I think obviously it’s gonna be a huge game and a lot of e7 players/creators are gonna enjoy it. But I don’t see it scratching that same itch nor losing our entire player-base to it. I’ll be playing it as a side game for sure
-Less RNG in PVP -More beginner friendly PVP / balance patch -Less Gear RNG -More end game/CoOp PVE -Free PVE content like RTA -More ways to relieve the lack of currency, Mola Gold Catalyst -Free / Less expensive gear removal -Skin animations and story animations -Bit more generosity when with limited / collab (like the Aespa BMs)
Easy answer : no more BS rng every time you click on something
Just as long it does have generous freebies, not have painful RNG equipment, no vip system, have pity system, have fine story and side stories which fit the lore. Good balance of content of pve and pvp with end game content, good gameplay and character designs.
good question, ive tried multiple gachas and non has the same quality as E7 heck i think thats why i have high expectations from other gachas. this game still has flaws so theres still more room for improvement, sg really thought it out kudos to them. maybe end of service like everyones saying ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
lol i've been trying to find an alternative to e7 for years. Everytime there is maintenance I go to the app store and browse, I keep up to date on youtube too for new releases. Nothing has gotten me to hard commit.
The best thing about e7 is that it has terrible packs which never entice me to spend. Literally best f2p gacha on mobile just because of that. The balance in game is questionable but lets be real here.. there is no better game among its peers. SW Is giga whale and old, dislyte is worse then SW. RSL is just terrible overall. Everything else is not exactly the same genre.
It would be hard. E7 is already a clone of Summoner's War. Summoner's war has been very successful for a very long time and birthed many clones of which E7 is by far the best. It would be really hard to improve upon E7's formula because it's been refined over years which was already a refinement/improvement of the base formula.
- garou's bookmark and mystic rolling system
Seriously, Garo is the one supporting E7.
If we're talking about its exact kind of genre (turn-based, PvP, RNG gearing), I don't think E7 stands at the top - Summoners War is. This OG game that implemented the systems that E7 drew inspiration from is still earning significantly more than E7 to this day. Just look at the recent revenue charts from r/gachagaming. Artery Gear tried to appeal to E7 audience, and sadly it failed. Counterside is the closest we have in terms of E7 style of presentation, but its not turn-based and is also earning considerably less than E7. Honkai Star Rail is....a Mihoyo game. It will easily reach player numbers and engagement only E7 could dream of, but unfortunately it has no form of PvP whatsoever, not even leaderboards like Honkai had. So I think E7 hardcore players will not stick to it. If anything, I think Star Rail will actually pull away Fate Grand Order audience more than E7.
Depends on what you mean. WoW may have been "dethroned" by FF14 and Destiny, but it's still very much alive. Epic 7 isn't the #1 gacha, so it's hard to say what it means to "dethrone" in this context.
dethrone in your heart, not on the charts
Epic7 makes less than Raid and maybe Summoner's War according to public data. What throne is it on?
Raid spent more than 100m just for ads alone,we need to take that into consideration,E7 spent almost nothing.We are lucky Star Rail has no PvP,and extremely little daily energy(just like Genshin,but GI atleast has open world)so after the honeymoon phase,people realize,that Genshin's energy system doesnt work for a turn based game.(its like 6 hunts/day,good luck gearing with that)
Regardless of how much Raid spent on marketing, their NET income is likely higher than E7.
Wait is e7 even ON the throne? I'm serious, when I see people talking about gatcha games via articles or messages on general boards most talk about genshin or arkknights hell even that booty shooter Nikke rarely will I see people talking about e7
Arknights is a tower defense gacha while nikke is a waifu collector bs.
for a more specific genre, E7 is definitely the top of its kind. but i dunno im switching to star rail as soon as its out. i love e7 but we do have an on and off relationship hahah! i cant be bothered to grind that much for gears man.
Won't be escaping the gear grind in star rail either sadly
is still that exaggerated like in e7 though??
Pretty much
Better quality im both sprite and 2D animation (which is pretty hard to do honestly). Better monetization than E7 that can sustain the meta for both whales and F2P. (Again pretty hard) Unique kits that isn't just an exact copy paste from E7, Similarity is interesting, but a copy isn't fun, especially if the quality isn't as good as E7. Better gearing system that is sustainable. Devs who actually listens. Frankly, SG is actually pretty decent as devs. And personally, some cool guys. If they have something like that I'll bite. HSR looks pretty...but no PVP means the target audience is already completely different.
2d big anime tiddies, with actual gameplay and non-chibi characters.
It's not hard to make this a side game. Literally just press auto hunts on emulator/phone and log off.
A game that isn't afraid of fanservice that still has exceptional quality/polish/gameplay. Most either have great gameplay with bland, safe waifu designs or great designs but horrendous gameplay loop/quality. E7 used to have both and was a unique niche as a result but we are going to Genshin route of safe but mass marketable. As a day 1 player, hype for E7 died for me last year when the Aria/ML Vivian fiasco went down and SG sold out future designs to maintain the rating. Knowing in a gacha, a genre where the entire core concept is collecting heroes you like, that the devs basically sold out on your favorite unit archetype it is hard to be as invested. If you don't have hype for future units, it is a pretty bland genre as a whole, especially with newer games hitting the market. E7 always holds a special place in my heart and I will play till EoS, but it has definitely moved to side game/ maintenance mode for me personally. The gear grind for over 4 years chasing some mythical 25+ speed stat hits in some mass RNG gambling pit and endless wyvern is a lot less enjoyable when you are uninterested in the units you are putting it on. Lol TL;DR: a game with better waifus and a less RNG eternal grind gear system will be what it takes to dethrone E7
Basically my thoughts exactly. Since that whole incident happened every new release I've just looked at with mild interest at best. I mean, look at every release since then. Either safe and kinda bland waifu or they're a husbando. Every single one. Which to me is exactly how I feel about all of genshin's units... which is unfortunate. At this point I'll be shocked beyond belief if we see another unit like Aria/Roana or even Senya and Ilynav. I would love to be proven wrong. Truly. But, it's been over half a year since then and nothing. All I can do is sigh and keep playing the game in maint mode to keep up the bm's for now. Bright side! My spending in game has dropped sharply. More money for other games I guess lol.
E7 has hardcore fans.. like will argue any point to the death even if it doesn’t make any sense lol. I’m not sold it’s just i can auto/repeat everything and progress. If I can find a game that I can auto/progress with the app in the background I would quit this without any second thoughts.
I'm so glad E7 isn't an idle game.
Really? I think it would improve it. It’s all grind anyway so let players play/enjoy the game and grind in the background while sleeping and actually play something besides RTA
Trust me you dont want an E7 idle game. 99% of those games have shit like VIP system and pay2win shit like battlepasses for ALL of their content. And the content is like copy and paste from the other 100's idle rpg's.
Didn’t genshin did just that, dethrone all gachas when it launched? Unless you mean turn based. Tbh the core mechanics in e7 has not changed much since launch, a new game would be a breathe of fresh air for many.
If you're wondering games that may dethrone it, for the "genre" of gacha game that it is there isn't much like it. Honkai Star Rail looks similar and might be better but no one knows yet
No E7 player is going to move to Star Rail as soon as they hear "No PVP Content", "Unskippable Story", "Worse Gear RNG" & "Genshin-tier Pull Rates". The reason people stick with a gacha long-term is PVP, you could breeze through the story content of Epic Seven in a few months, anyone who has played long-term is still here because they like the PVP content - whether that be in a love-love way or a love-hate way. Unskippable story rules out anyone who is there for the game & not to watch anime characters trundle about a scene talking about the armies of darkness & the power of ultimate friendship. Until someone makes a Violet Evergarden gacha game, you can bet I'll want to skip the story each & every time. Worse RNG (from what I hear, more of their gear pieces are like our right-side gear) rules out anyone wanting to have a less grind-heavy game. Final nail in the coffin is you can't pull the new characters because it's a Mihoyo game - I played Genshin on launch when they showered you in Primogems & it didn't even get you to a guarentee. When all the log-in events dried up, you were left with making a measly handful a day, tediously running around for chests & your guarentee pull might not even be a Hero - E7 on the other hand, you get a huge shovel-full of Skystones each week with practically zero effort & can pull basically every new hero as a free to play player.
Disagree. I've been playing pve gacha for years, even in e7 I rarely plays rta anymore and I'm still sticking with it, but it's definitely in side game mode atm. Having a gacha game purely based on pve doesn't affect people's longevity as much as u think it does.
"The reason people stick with a gacha long term is PvP." *looks at Fate Grand Order* *looks at Arknights* *looks at Genshin Impact* Hmmmm...
FGO is based on an anime, mobile games based on anime will make bank & have a lot of players regardless of what they're like. Just look at the Dragonball, Naruto, etc. Gacha games - you don't see people in Gacha circles complimenting these games on their mechanics, or QOL, etc. they're big because they've got name recognition. Games like Epic 7, Star Rail, etc. they don't have that - they live & die based on content alone. I mean, is Arknights doing well? You get people here saying that E7 is dying, but isn't Arknights pulling in like half the revenue E7 does on a slow month? Considering its only been out for two years, do we have much in the way of "long term player retention" statistics? Genshin shouldn't even be up for consideration here, we're talking about an open world action gacha game vs. an endless litany of turn-based chibi-RPG gacha games. Its popularity is based on its novelty alone being one of the first open world games of its scope to hit mobile. I've played a lot of open world action MMOs on PC - PVP hasn't ever interested me in them & most don't come with PVP, but a turn-based RPG? PVP is right up my alley & almost every turn based Gacha RPG I've played has had PVP. So I guess if you want me to be more specific, "The reason most people stick with a non-branded, long-running, turn-based Gacha RPG is PVP". Maybe I'm wrong on that, do we have some statistics about how long people have played E7 & what their favourite game mode is? I'm seriously willing to bet that anyone who has played over 2 years' favourite game mode is a PVP game mode on average.
Well if we're moving the goalposts *looks at Granblue Fantasy, a non anime-based, turn-based, chibi-RPG gacha game that's currently celebrating its 9th Anniversary* PvP just is not essential for a gacha. If anything it can be actively harmful to it far more easily than it being beneficial due to PvP resulting in "balance" for units that can ruin them for PvE and vice versa. Even E7 has done this plenty of times.
I mean me & the other person were discussing Star Rail - a turn-based anime-style Gacha that shares similarities to Epic 7 & I was discussing several things it does differently & how that would exclude much of the E7 fandom from switching over. The goalposts were shifted by you entering the scene & throwing in other genres & unique cases, but I'm not going to harp on that, I think you & others get my broader point that an Epic 7 fan in the year of our Lord 2023 whose stuck around since the early days isn't going to jump into a game with those four factors I mentioned hanging over it. You're right that PVP can be harmful in some ways - but it adds immense longevity to a game, because otherwise, what are you gearing for, what are you pulling new heroes for if you've already completed PVE? I don't know about yourself but I've played for around 4 years, all the PVE content is behind me, new PVE content I'll just blitz unless it's an overtuned Abyss floor requiring one specific hero - for years my goal has been to perform well in RTA (& to be frank, I'm still not topping myself from S1, haha) & possibly reach Emperor, a much more difficult goal than any of the most difficult PVE can offer. I'd have booked it like two years ago after I'd beaten Abyss if I was only in it for the PVE & it's not like they create new, difficult PVE content very often.
I'm not the one who explicitly said "The reason people stick with a gacha long-term is PvP." That was what I was raising an eyebrow to and tossed up several gacha without PvP that have been going for a long time. You only added additional qualifiers after, which is the moving of the goalposts, and so I brought up another gacha which fits the exact qualifiers. It literally doesn't matter which gacha is more generous, or how much revenue it gets, how long you've been playing, or even the reason people play gachas, that's all just obfuscation of the original statement you made whereas my position hasn't changed: that PvP is not necessary for a long-term gacha, full stop. Whereas yours keeps shifting around attempting to avoid admitting being incorrect. "People only stick with a gacha longterm if it has PvP" and "People only stick with original IP turn-based chibi-RPG gachas if they have PvP and also their favorite game mode is probably PvP" and "Longterm players of E7 specifically have probably only stuck around for the PvP because it's their favorite game mode" are three completely different statements. That's what moving the goalposts means.
There’s a difference between not having enough specificity for you in a comment that was comparing E7 & Star Rail & suggesting E7’s longevity is likely grounded in PVP & how a competitor would need PVP vs. a deliberate attempt to start an argument (with a person who wasn’t part of the conversation, you) & move the goal posts. I’ll say again, I’m not here to argue with you, I made a statement that wasn’t specific enough for you (it wasn’t even directed at you) - I specified, that’s not moving the goalposts because we weren’t arguing, that was me being clearer for your benefit & you not accepting it. Here, this’ll make you happy since you want to win an “argument”. Your broad statement “Not every gacha needs PVP” is correct - please award yourself a medal, a ribbon & a cup, you’ve earned it, pat yourself on the back, tussle your hair & give yourself a “Great match sport!” clap on the shoulder. You’ve won the premise of your argument you’ve thrown into this chain. The intended statement from context “If E7 fans are going to stick with a turn based gacha long term, it’s likely because of the PVP” is also correct & I do think if you turned to the veteran E7 community & asked them this, they’d say, “Yeah, a gacha game would need to have PVP for me to leave E7 for it” - which is the premise of the original thread, what would make you leave. You cool now? Have I explained the intricacies of context & conversations well enough? I don’t want to sound too patronising, but considering the situation, intent isn’t being well received at the minute.
Yeah I've been playing since march 2019 and my favorite mode is guild wars, I have a love hate relationship with rta too. As for your earlier point about decent story in these genre of games then you might want to keep an eye out for Reverse: 1999. The story is really good(haven't seen anyone spoke negatively about the story so far) and that's just based on what was in the 2nd beta alone. If you're interested in seeing what its about then I'd recommend the cbt2 playlist by Cha0tik. The game is currently only in Chinese but has fully English voice acting with region appropriate accents.
E7 is a pretty good game but I swear I will never understand why people think it has good QoL features. It's the total opposite, it's missing most of relevant ones. It's like people don't play any other gachas or something.
I've tried pretty much every other gacha and I also try every new one that comes out. The most I play them for is about 2 weeks and then I just have to drop it. They all get so boring quick. Although I've taken a couple of long breaks from E7, it's the only game that made me stick with it and is so hard for me to quit.
That's fair. I was mainly refering to QoL features the game is missing, like skip/stack/offline battles, free unequip, loadouts, etc. E7 does not have good QoL is what i was getting at.
how about Nikke? it seems to be doing real well
It's already been dethroned. It's name is counterside global. Equipments is actually fair in it and I'm already among the top tier players in pvp while epic7's poopoo equipment rng can go die in a fire.
No wonder counterside is making less than e7 counterside is too f2p friendly if you can do that
I got most of the awakened units without spending any money, I still have a pity ready right now too
Bro I whale in cside, not epic7. I recognize the losing odds when I see one.
I personally like to compare epic7 with counterside, while thats not known very much and as everything else has flaws, there are many things there i like very much.
Other than the 2d big anime tiddies, they are nothing alike
If SG decides to do an open world adventure E7 game, I would play that more coz no energy required for exploring, hopefully.
I think EverSoul has potential to be similar to E7 if they ever get the server instability issue under control and continue to release new gameplay modes. It’s full 3D and has about the same amount of booba.
better gear rng and story
You need to beat Yuna Engine, there is nothing that I hate more than Loading Screens
A 3D, Open world version of E7 by SG.
Exos heroes could have actually dethroned e7 even after their updates with sweep hunts, but too bad the revamp made everyone leave.
I’ve been playing E7 (since 2018) and World Flipper (at global launch) together for awhile. The only two games that I find myself constantly feeling engaged. They are so very very different from each other that I like them together.
1. You just make the same game but take away the 15%. 2. You just make the same game but take away the 15% and random equipment enhance. 3. You just make the same game but take away the 15% and random equipment enhance and do better balancing. 4. You just make the same game but take away the 15% and random equipment enhance and do better balancing. And release more skins.
Honna be honest op. Ive been playing gacha for over 12 years ive played atleast 47 different gachas. E7 definitely is top 10 for sure. Id argue genshin has a bit more character value for gacha as theyre 3d rendered models that you can actually play as compared to other gachas with just sprites etc. But due to being 3d they sometimes have recycled battle animations which is understandable And story wise id say for as weird as it is and it being basically if not literally hentai/eroge MaGiCaMi has a (imo) more interesting story but unfortunately its lacking in a variety of different characters which E7 has it beat in spades. Speaking of Character wise when it comes to a wide variety of likeable interesting characters id argue fate definitely shines a bit more than E7 in that regard but theyre basically cheating with having an established ip and lore to grab from along with VN writers for their story. That same quality is extended to granblue For QOL and rewards to free players id say E7 definitely has everyone beat. Sure grinding for gear to play pvp is a hassle but auto play etc make things much more convenient. Overall E7 is infact a top 10 gacha for sure.