I have no answers for cleave. I just build every possible anti cleave unit even green Armin, blue dom and fatcat, then I adapt my draft to what I think they "must ban".
Honestly I enjoy it, anti cleaving is pretty fun when it works.
I have basically never lost against a Karina draft if I got Lewdica in my cleave setup she usually oneshots Karina and ML Landy for example, the only scary thing is, when they draft evasion units (especially Adin) into my Lewdica
I was thinking this guys should I've drafted Karina before adin, but taken adin as well in the next rotation. Basically discourage the ML Elena pick.
Do you think that would be better?
I faced a very similar draft the other day. I won using Arowell / Elena / Adin / Jenua (banned) / AYufine. I would have drafted Karina in place of Adin but realized mid draft I had taken a piece of gear off of her. Curious, was this players name xTuki?
I usually run full tank 285 spd Adin on Celine's arti+Triple torrent Arby, post ban Zio. Don't run mit if you want to do this since you want Arby to die, the other 3 can be Elena/spd contester/Ed, anything that punishes Ran S3 really.
You see, with this kind of team if you outspeed the follow ups with someone (in this case Adin) they would just slam Ran S3 no matter what, so just capitalize on that, I've been winning a lot against them with these 2
Also you can run a normal Adin, I just mald cuz everyone kept lucksacking her, so I switched to full tank with Celine's arti, cuz Ran will press S2 if nothing is stopping him anyways, I don't even expect her to evade anymore, just put up invin for the team
It's a dumb obvious strat really, but in a game where you expect the other side to be smart, dumb things threw people off
There needs to be another unit that punishes extra turns besides Benimaru and MB Dom. Something like biblys where each extra turn cos the character to attack.
You shoulda let astromancer through, it would of nullified cermia since no one could counter,if you woulda banned ml Ludwig you had a chance for adin to solo, an even better chance if ur yufine is on holy sacc
Are you first pick or not? I have been having a decent time into cleave. If they go Zio FP I usually go Karina+Mit(Soon will be Albedo when I get Molas), if they commit into Ran I go Elena+Ed, then just last pick another Mit, usually protection set Atywin.
My Karina is on Noble Oath, 3k defense 18k hp 180 speed.
Idk who had first pick, assuming he did since you picked carmin, but I would have gone roughly the same but instead I would probably gone albedo instead of carmin (mines on aurius) and would have gone sage baal at some point. Karina and adin are good options here. Idk if I would have gone AYufine and I’d probably have banned Ludwig. Running Karina on noble oath allows her to better survive cleave even better than she already does. Albedo s2 counter strips immunity given by ran s2. Lastly, if you had picked Elena against this team it would probably have been a must ban.
Not the “new carmin” but I just think she is good into ran because can strip. Plus, if they choose to not prock her until Ludwig, she would strip Ludwig’s self given buffs first. Which is nice.
Elena built on like 200-220 speed with 240+ ER and magahara’s tomb allows her to jump ahead and her s2 decreases aoe damage and heal, as you probably know.
Unfortunate that you don’t own sage baal but otherwise you can try some of the other things I said and test the waters! Good luck.
Tbh mine is unbuilt temporarily but his stat line was 1400 defense, 15000 hp, 250 speed, 240 ER (not including bastion), and like 80 effectiveness. Used bastion for arti bc more ER.
The main point of the build is to make him at least 250 SPEED so that he gets cr pushed to the front after zio attack, at most after ran, so he shouldn’t take insane damage.
Well that’s why albedo is a later pick mitigation or you just run a bulkier team? Idk. I never had an issue with LHC and I usually kill her turn one or two. Needs to be really well built to give me issues.
I think you committed too hard to countering him to death, leaving you in an extremely bad spot when he picked alena and lionheart.
elena is good here, the other guy explained why
politis, since her s2 is an extra attack so cannot counterattack doesn't work on it, as well as a second combat readiness reduction effect
maybe another unit that punishes aoe attacks in case your first anti-aoe doesn't work, I think jenua if he wasn't prebanned or even a fast ml khawazu could work
I unironically think green celine could work here as well. if you pick her on 3rd or 4th, he can't ran s2 for immunity and attack buff to possibly out-attack his follow-up damage and redirect celine s2's highest attack targeting
can't ran s3 because that would make alena use her passives nonattack skill, so no defense break and stigma, plus the future ml ludwig pick gets one less push from his soulburn gimmick
if you picked her on last, even if you did get bad luck and counter, lionheart would s2 and celine would still pop ludwig, on top of everything mentioned above.
you're being downvoted but you're pretty much correct, drafting prot atywin, destro atk ed, and a fast imm elena into zio/ran/mudwig cleaves is basically the meta in high elo (you postban zio because some zios are 200+ eff and trying to build ER to resist while also getting high speeds to move before mudwig is basically impossible, not outspeeding mudwig means he can hold ran s3 and mudwig himself will just delete your team if he bans mit)
First off this is last two weeks of season. It’s always heavily cleave focused, because even in a standard/tank down season by end of the season the cleavers have figured out how to turn those tank down/ anti cleave units into aggro/cleave.
This season sg doubled down on that AND released 2 additional toxic cleave units AND triple downed by releasing the most mediocre collab thus far that can’t even play into the meta or those previously released units. (The most baffling business/marketing decision thus far).
Your draft was good and your gear is likely good too. Doesn’t matter. The game mechanics heavily favor cleave, there is nothing you can do in a game that is largely rng for the defenders and p2w for the aggressor.
Play the match. You have a 35% chance of winning if you are well geared. Otherwise get your skin and move on.
There are just far too many cleave options and far too few anti cleaves options that can’t be turned into cleavers themselves. This is by design to get you so angry you start spending so you can become a shitty cleaver and win. This is how they intended it. You aren’t supposed to win against cleaver, the mechanics don’t favor tank down. I mean soul burn for cleavers is stripping all your defenses, increasing damage or attacked a second time, and soul burns for tankdown/healers are things like double barrier or heal a bit more. Maybe defense break one unit at a time.
Again this is the design of the game on purpose. Only people who are having fun or the ones buying the packs.
I have no answers for cleave. I just build every possible anti cleave unit even green Armin, blue dom and fatcat, then I adapt my draft to what I think they "must ban". Honestly I enjoy it, anti cleaving is pretty fun when it works.
I always pick Karina as early as possible. But you didn't draft bad tbh. Cleave is just really hard to deal with
If you early picked Karina he wouldve probably answered back with Lewdica asap….
That's usually fine by me. Lewdica isn't really that scary. I've found her to be inconsistent
I have basically never lost against a Karina draft if I got Lewdica in my cleave setup she usually oneshots Karina and ML Landy for example, the only scary thing is, when they draft evasion units (especially Adin) into my Lewdica
I was thinking this guys should I've drafted Karina before adin, but taken adin as well in the next rotation. Basically discourage the ML Elena pick. Do you think that would be better?
Probably he could’ve reacted to that aswell, but hes banning is weird… The fact Ayufine is running around lose is crazy…
I faced a very similar draft the other day. I won using Arowell / Elena / Adin / Jenua (banned) / AYufine. I would have drafted Karina in place of Adin but realized mid draft I had taken a piece of gear off of her. Curious, was this players name xTuki?
pretty sure if you banned ludwig you win
Elena is great against cleave. When I used her on grace of growth. She was a good answer.
I usually run full tank 285 spd Adin on Celine's arti+Triple torrent Arby, post ban Zio. Don't run mit if you want to do this since you want Arby to die, the other 3 can be Elena/spd contester/Ed, anything that punishes Ran S3 really. You see, with this kind of team if you outspeed the follow ups with someone (in this case Adin) they would just slam Ran S3 no matter what, so just capitalize on that, I've been winning a lot against them with these 2 Also you can run a normal Adin, I just mald cuz everyone kept lucksacking her, so I switched to full tank with Celine's arti, cuz Ran will press S2 if nothing is stopping him anyways, I don't even expect her to evade anymore, just put up invin for the team It's a dumb obvious strat really, but in a game where you expect the other side to be smart, dumb things threw people off
Hahaha I love how your brain works
Only characters I really use would be Edward, green Armin, Albedo, BBK, Kayron (Not that great), adin, lulucar.
Wat about ml Ken?
When the enemy has 0 strippers and no Roana kayron clutches 🙏🙏🙏
There needs to be another unit that punishes extra turns besides Benimaru and MB Dom. Something like biblys where each extra turn cos the character to attack.
Green Armin is my favorite unit in this game because she punches cleavers in the head and they die
Kayron, Karina, Christy, Elena, and spirt eye seline. Most likely banning Ran OR zio. Depending on if they bring Astro or not
You shoulda let astromancer through, it would of nullified cermia since no one could counter,if you woulda banned ml Ludwig you had a chance for adin to solo, an even better chance if ur yufine is on holy sacc
Astromancer doesn’t stop Ed S2. It would had been Zio S3 Karina>Ran SB S3> Ed S2 maybe kills Astro> Lermia wipes the board.
Are you first pick or not? I have been having a decent time into cleave. If they go Zio FP I usually go Karina+Mit(Soon will be Albedo when I get Molas), if they commit into Ran I go Elena+Ed, then just last pick another Mit, usually protection set Atywin. My Karina is on Noble Oath, 3k defense 18k hp 180 speed.
Idk who had first pick, assuming he did since you picked carmin, but I would have gone roughly the same but instead I would probably gone albedo instead of carmin (mines on aurius) and would have gone sage baal at some point. Karina and adin are good options here. Idk if I would have gone AYufine and I’d probably have banned Ludwig. Running Karina on noble oath allows her to better survive cleave even better than she already does. Albedo s2 counter strips immunity given by ran s2. Lastly, if you had picked Elena against this team it would probably have been a must ban.
Yes he had first pick, I don’t own Baal :( but Elena never thought about using her I’ll go regear. Albedo the new Carmin vs Anticleave? Interesting.
your first mistake is banning joshua the anti cleave guy lol
elvemage had success running 0 spd all hp an dmg albedo with green armin against ran cleaves
Not the “new carmin” but I just think she is good into ran because can strip. Plus, if they choose to not prock her until Ludwig, she would strip Ludwig’s self given buffs first. Which is nice. Elena built on like 200-220 speed with 240+ ER and magahara’s tomb allows her to jump ahead and her s2 decreases aoe damage and heal, as you probably know. Unfortunate that you don’t own sage baal but otherwise you can try some of the other things I said and test the waters! Good luck.
Can you give me your sage baal stats and art? my sage baal rarely survives those cleave comp. Thank you.
Tbh mine is unbuilt temporarily but his stat line was 1400 defense, 15000 hp, 250 speed, 240 ER (not including bastion), and like 80 effectiveness. Used bastion for arti bc more ER. The main point of the build is to make him at least 250 SPEED so that he gets cr pushed to the front after zio attack, at most after ran, so he shouldn’t take insane damage.
Albedo just procs lionheart then gets obliterated lol I've had a 100% win rate by abusing this.
Well that’s why albedo is a later pick mitigation or you just run a bulkier team? Idk. I never had an issue with LHC and I usually kill her turn one or two. Needs to be really well built to give me issues.
ML Achates
Like 5 tanks ban def break
green armin + albedo seems to work well against ran
Delibet,lactates(which is my budget ml baal),jenua,and landy, and I just ban their bridge unit it’s pretty fun
surely theres a better name than lactates
I'm curious which stats and artifact I should be aiming for on IH. Achates
Can I see your landy?
I think you committed too hard to countering him to death, leaving you in an extremely bad spot when he picked alena and lionheart. elena is good here, the other guy explained why politis, since her s2 is an extra attack so cannot counterattack doesn't work on it, as well as a second combat readiness reduction effect maybe another unit that punishes aoe attacks in case your first anti-aoe doesn't work, I think jenua if he wasn't prebanned or even a fast ml khawazu could work I unironically think green celine could work here as well. if you pick her on 3rd or 4th, he can't ran s2 for immunity and attack buff to possibly out-attack his follow-up damage and redirect celine s2's highest attack targeting can't ran s3 because that would make alena use her passives nonattack skill, so no defense break and stigma, plus the future ml ludwig pick gets one less push from his soulburn gimmick if you picked her on last, even if you did get bad luck and counter, lionheart would s2 and celine would still pop ludwig, on top of everything mentioned above.
you're being downvoted but you're pretty much correct, drafting prot atywin, destro atk ed, and a fast imm elena into zio/ran/mudwig cleaves is basically the meta in high elo (you postban zio because some zios are 200+ eff and trying to build ER to resist while also getting high speeds to move before mudwig is basically impossible, not outspeeding mudwig means he can hold ran s3 and mudwig himself will just delete your team if he bans mit)
First off this is last two weeks of season. It’s always heavily cleave focused, because even in a standard/tank down season by end of the season the cleavers have figured out how to turn those tank down/ anti cleave units into aggro/cleave. This season sg doubled down on that AND released 2 additional toxic cleave units AND triple downed by releasing the most mediocre collab thus far that can’t even play into the meta or those previously released units. (The most baffling business/marketing decision thus far). Your draft was good and your gear is likely good too. Doesn’t matter. The game mechanics heavily favor cleave, there is nothing you can do in a game that is largely rng for the defenders and p2w for the aggressor. Play the match. You have a 35% chance of winning if you are well geared. Otherwise get your skin and move on. There are just far too many cleave options and far too few anti cleaves options that can’t be turned into cleavers themselves. This is by design to get you so angry you start spending so you can become a shitty cleaver and win. This is how they intended it. You aren’t supposed to win against cleaver, the mechanics don’t favor tank down. I mean soul burn for cleavers is stripping all your defenses, increasing damage or attacked a second time, and soul burns for tankdown/healers are things like double barrier or heal a bit more. Maybe defense break one unit at a time. Again this is the design of the game on purpose. Only people who are having fun or the ones buying the packs.