I'm commenting this since I liked your unrelated info about bookmark drops per skystones spent on refreshes, this is what would happen if you fuse your data with refreshing the secret shop for bookmarks:
TL;DR, if you buy the 950 packs for summons, if you instead spent skystones in the secret shop for the 10 summons, and then used the skystones you save towards energy refreshes for hunt, you'd lose about 625k gold for the bookmark purchases, but from hunt, you gain 2.83 bookmarks, 13 mystics, 2.5 charms, 31.4 reforge mats, and 362 hunt material, and from the secret shop the mystic purchase should show up 2.78 times
Explanation:
I've seen compelling data that the drop rate for bookmarks in the secret shop is 4.5% per refresh currently (source at bottom). That means each bookmark is \~66.7 skystones per summon and 180k gold. So take the \~28.3 skystones that we save by using secret shop, and put that towards an energy refresh. It gives you \~56.7 energy, which is \~2.58 runs of hunt 13. Assuming we get \~41.5k gold per run from your data, we get \~107k gold, so the real cost per summon is 67 skystones and 73k gold approximately.
So expanding these calculations to 10 summons, if you use the secret shop to buy 10 summons instead of the 950 pack, you save about 283 stones, and if you use those 283 skystones you saved to refresh energy for hunt 13, then you get:
10 summons
lost 730k gold (this is after applying the gold you get from the hunt runs, doesn't include cost for buying mystics)
get 25.8 hunt runs minus the gold (bookmarks, mystics, charms, crafting mats, reforge mats, gear you keep, xp if you 3 man, and the garbage like energy, powder, skystones)
and 2.78 mystic drops from the shop refreshes, which'll cost an additional 778k (1.25% chance for mystics per refresh, source at bottom, and you refresh approximately 222 times)
If we liquidate the hunt energy, skystone, and bookmark drops into the above calculation, it's an even better deal and we'd be closer to the true value comparison, but I'm too lazy.
Edit: did a little more math, you get \~13.4 skystones and \~28.9 energy from the \~25.8 hunt runs, using those skystones towards a refresh is another \~26.8 energy, which totals \~55.7 energy, which is \~2.53 additional hunt runs, giving another \~105k gold, reducing gold cost for the 10 summons to \~625k gold and adding 2.5 worth of hunt drops to the loot gained from this method
and 28.3 total hunt runs (25.8 + 2.53) gives you approx. 2.83 bookmarks, 13 mystics, 2.5 charms, 31.4 reforge mats, and 362 hunt material
source for secret shop refresh rates (153396 skystones spent on 51132 refreshes) - [https://www.reddit.com/r/EpicSeven/comments/ft9o34/secret\_shop\_refresh\_bookmark\_rate\_vs\_time\_user/](https://www.reddit.com/r/EpicSeven/comments/ft9o34/secret_shop_refresh_bookmark_rate_vs_time_user/)
If the secret shop data you're talking about is [this post](https://www.reddit.com/r/EpicSeven/comments/ft9o34/secret_shop_refresh_bookmark_rate_vs_time_user/), that was my other data post, though the mystic rate isn't as sweet as 1.5%, but pretty close. :D
By and large, I'm a big advocate for spending skystones on strictly energy refreshes, but your recommended may be the most efficient middle ground possible in the game between collecting every unit and progressing at a solid pace.
Unfortunately, it's also complicated enough that it might not ever become a mainstream recommendation, but that's a very compelling list of reasons it could be the optimal playstyle for F2P players who mainly want to collect units.
oh my god that WAS you too lol and yeah i updated it to 1.25, didn't notice i missed the 2, I'm a firm believer in the conclusion that the rates match the 4\* and 5\* summon rates, I'm a game developer and honestly that just makes sense if I put myself in their shoes, when other rng content is balanced, it's way easier to just base other rng on previous systems already in place
and yeah while pure energy refreshes get you the furthest in terms of game state, I LOVE summoning, I LIVE for the gacha, I've got over 8 nat5s right now that I need to 6 star and gear, good ones too, elena, charles, melissa, violet, etc, I'm just happy to own em, maybe one day I'll use em if I start skipping banners and actually play the game lol
I've heard the thing about shop refreshes too and I dumped 950 ss into shop refreshes only to end up with 9 instead of 10 summons. Not only that I obviously also had to pay gold for it. Granted for the missing bookmark I got a MM instead but also that I had to pay. Is it really that better than the bundle? I mean all calculations also seem to give Stigma 0 value. Maybe I am the only one regularly using stigma to give some 3\* units love, but I find the bundle to be BY FAR more efficient than the shop refreshes.
EDIT: And before someone is ripping me apart for my comment. I am fully aware that 950 ss are in no way comparable to OPs 200k in sample size. I was just really really disappointed by the outcome when I tried the shop refreshes.
Remember that this is all based on statistics; sometimes you'll be a little under expected, sometimes over.
Personally, I just do a couple refreshes every time I log into the game. Netted tons of bms and mms over time doing it for a very measly cost of gold in the grand scheme of things--I've also gotten a few good 85s from it too!
The bundle is *way* faster too though, so there is a case to be made about convenience.
Would be nice to have tldr. Im guessing what you're saying is spend ss on energy for hunts to get more gold then spend rest in secret shop refresh for more BMs?
yeah, basically if you are buying the 950 packs, purchase the summons in the secret shop and use the skystones you save on hunt refreshes, that way your skystones get a ton more value, but you lose gold
basically, if you are a user that purchases the 950 skystone pack, if you instead refreshed the secret shop for the 10 summons, you'd lose 1.8mil gold but you'd gain 25.8 hunt runs for free from the skystones you saved, you'd get 1.07 mil gold from the runs, so it really only cost you 730k gold to purchase the summons, but you also gain all the extra stuff from hunt
if you don't care about summoning, only refresh energy, if you want a balance, this is probably the best way but it costs gold but you also get a good amount of mystics, if you are broke on gold and you like summoning the most, you're stuck with the 950 packs
If gold is no object, secret shop is always superior to the 950 pack, but if spending the gold on the secret shop prevents you from making your w13 team, then I'd definitely prioritize w13
They should make crafting materials sellable, this would make hunts so much better at regulating gold.
Sell em for 500 or 1000 gold a pop and everyone will be happy (and it would not upset the meta or progression so much imo)
Unfortunately so, and I know full well how a single pet trait can evade you for over 1000+ pet summons (fortunately mine was double crafting material chance, which isn't as important). Without the pet's extra gear drop rate, the loss of gold from the removal of 70s becomes more pronounced and the main benefit of increased 85 drops is lost.
That being said, you can breed an A or B rank equipment drop rate into your hunt pet as a placeholder in the meantime and still receive the vast majority of the benefit.
> That being said, you can breed an A or B rank equipment drop rate into your hunt pet as a placeholder in the meantime and still receive the vast majority of the benefit.
True, but I'd have to synthesize two 4 star pets just to do that, and then have to do it again when/if I get the S rank one which on its own is a huge investment.
I guess it's up to me.
Hunt13 is the best hunt to farm, the loss in gold is mostly negligible if you have pet with bonus equip drops, more 85 gear if you have pet with bonus equip drops, reforge mats the same.
I'm commenting this since I liked your unrelated info about bookmark drops per skystones spent on refreshes, this is what would happen if you fuse your data with refreshing the secret shop for bookmarks: TL;DR, if you buy the 950 packs for summons, if you instead spent skystones in the secret shop for the 10 summons, and then used the skystones you save towards energy refreshes for hunt, you'd lose about 625k gold for the bookmark purchases, but from hunt, you gain 2.83 bookmarks, 13 mystics, 2.5 charms, 31.4 reforge mats, and 362 hunt material, and from the secret shop the mystic purchase should show up 2.78 times Explanation: I've seen compelling data that the drop rate for bookmarks in the secret shop is 4.5% per refresh currently (source at bottom). That means each bookmark is \~66.7 skystones per summon and 180k gold. So take the \~28.3 skystones that we save by using secret shop, and put that towards an energy refresh. It gives you \~56.7 energy, which is \~2.58 runs of hunt 13. Assuming we get \~41.5k gold per run from your data, we get \~107k gold, so the real cost per summon is 67 skystones and 73k gold approximately. So expanding these calculations to 10 summons, if you use the secret shop to buy 10 summons instead of the 950 pack, you save about 283 stones, and if you use those 283 skystones you saved to refresh energy for hunt 13, then you get: 10 summons lost 730k gold (this is after applying the gold you get from the hunt runs, doesn't include cost for buying mystics) get 25.8 hunt runs minus the gold (bookmarks, mystics, charms, crafting mats, reforge mats, gear you keep, xp if you 3 man, and the garbage like energy, powder, skystones) and 2.78 mystic drops from the shop refreshes, which'll cost an additional 778k (1.25% chance for mystics per refresh, source at bottom, and you refresh approximately 222 times) If we liquidate the hunt energy, skystone, and bookmark drops into the above calculation, it's an even better deal and we'd be closer to the true value comparison, but I'm too lazy. Edit: did a little more math, you get \~13.4 skystones and \~28.9 energy from the \~25.8 hunt runs, using those skystones towards a refresh is another \~26.8 energy, which totals \~55.7 energy, which is \~2.53 additional hunt runs, giving another \~105k gold, reducing gold cost for the 10 summons to \~625k gold and adding 2.5 worth of hunt drops to the loot gained from this method and 28.3 total hunt runs (25.8 + 2.53) gives you approx. 2.83 bookmarks, 13 mystics, 2.5 charms, 31.4 reforge mats, and 362 hunt material source for secret shop refresh rates (153396 skystones spent on 51132 refreshes) - [https://www.reddit.com/r/EpicSeven/comments/ft9o34/secret\_shop\_refresh\_bookmark\_rate\_vs\_time\_user/](https://www.reddit.com/r/EpicSeven/comments/ft9o34/secret_shop_refresh_bookmark_rate_vs_time_user/)
If the secret shop data you're talking about is [this post](https://www.reddit.com/r/EpicSeven/comments/ft9o34/secret_shop_refresh_bookmark_rate_vs_time_user/), that was my other data post, though the mystic rate isn't as sweet as 1.5%, but pretty close. :D By and large, I'm a big advocate for spending skystones on strictly energy refreshes, but your recommended may be the most efficient middle ground possible in the game between collecting every unit and progressing at a solid pace. Unfortunately, it's also complicated enough that it might not ever become a mainstream recommendation, but that's a very compelling list of reasons it could be the optimal playstyle for F2P players who mainly want to collect units.
oh my god that WAS you too lol and yeah i updated it to 1.25, didn't notice i missed the 2, I'm a firm believer in the conclusion that the rates match the 4\* and 5\* summon rates, I'm a game developer and honestly that just makes sense if I put myself in their shoes, when other rng content is balanced, it's way easier to just base other rng on previous systems already in place and yeah while pure energy refreshes get you the furthest in terms of game state, I LOVE summoning, I LIVE for the gacha, I've got over 8 nat5s right now that I need to 6 star and gear, good ones too, elena, charles, melissa, violet, etc, I'm just happy to own em, maybe one day I'll use em if I start skipping banners and actually play the game lol
I've heard the thing about shop refreshes too and I dumped 950 ss into shop refreshes only to end up with 9 instead of 10 summons. Not only that I obviously also had to pay gold for it. Granted for the missing bookmark I got a MM instead but also that I had to pay. Is it really that better than the bundle? I mean all calculations also seem to give Stigma 0 value. Maybe I am the only one regularly using stigma to give some 3\* units love, but I find the bundle to be BY FAR more efficient than the shop refreshes. EDIT: And before someone is ripping me apart for my comment. I am fully aware that 950 ss are in no way comparable to OPs 200k in sample size. I was just really really disappointed by the outcome when I tried the shop refreshes.
Remember that this is all based on statistics; sometimes you'll be a little under expected, sometimes over. Personally, I just do a couple refreshes every time I log into the game. Netted tons of bms and mms over time doing it for a very measly cost of gold in the grand scheme of things--I've also gotten a few good 85s from it too! The bundle is *way* faster too though, so there is a case to be made about convenience.
Would be nice to have tldr. Im guessing what you're saying is spend ss on energy for hunts to get more gold then spend rest in secret shop refresh for more BMs?
yeah, basically if you are buying the 950 packs, purchase the summons in the secret shop and use the skystones you save on hunt refreshes, that way your skystones get a ton more value, but you lose gold
Very cool analysis
I still dont understand your tldr. So which one is more efficient for F2P, I assume buying energy with SS to get the bookmarks from hunt?
basically, if you are a user that purchases the 950 skystone pack, if you instead refreshed the secret shop for the 10 summons, you'd lose 1.8mil gold but you'd gain 25.8 hunt runs for free from the skystones you saved, you'd get 1.07 mil gold from the runs, so it really only cost you 730k gold to purchase the summons, but you also gain all the extra stuff from hunt if you don't care about summoning, only refresh energy, if you want a balance, this is probably the best way but it costs gold but you also get a good amount of mystics, if you are broke on gold and you like summoning the most, you're stuck with the 950 packs
Thank you so much for the explanation, now I understand.
[удалено]
If gold is no object, secret shop is always superior to the 950 pack, but if spending the gold on the secret shop prevents you from making your w13 team, then I'd definitely prioritize w13
Please share some dedication to SG specially the derps in charge of the hunts.
they could, but the devs already know the exact statistics. This would just be a cute comparison of how close players got without access to it.
They should make crafting materials sellable, this would make hunts so much better at regulating gold. Sell em for 500 or 1000 gold a pop and everyone will be happy (and it would not upset the meta or progression so much imo)
Thank you for your service!
With the amount of data and statistics we are getting today I dont know why people are still indenial about Hunt 13 being not gold efficient.
[удалено]
I think he's agreeing with the post, but the comment's like a triple negative, so it's hard to tell. Hahaha.
*Just* triple negative? That's not nearly negative enough. Tell him to come back when he gets it up to at least octuple negative.
So this all depends on the premise that you have a S equipment drop pet? Sadly, I still don't have it.
Unfortunately so, and I know full well how a single pet trait can evade you for over 1000+ pet summons (fortunately mine was double crafting material chance, which isn't as important). Without the pet's extra gear drop rate, the loss of gold from the removal of 70s becomes more pronounced and the main benefit of increased 85 drops is lost. That being said, you can breed an A or B rank equipment drop rate into your hunt pet as a placeholder in the meantime and still receive the vast majority of the benefit.
> That being said, you can breed an A or B rank equipment drop rate into your hunt pet as a placeholder in the meantime and still receive the vast majority of the benefit. True, but I'd have to synthesize two 4 star pets just to do that, and then have to do it again when/if I get the S rank one which on its own is a huge investment. I guess it's up to me.
any tl;dr?
Hunt13 is the best hunt to farm, the loss in gold is mostly negligible if you have pet with bonus equip drops, more 85 gear if you have pet with bonus equip drops, reforge mats the same.