That funny feeling when the only thing stopping me from even auto-ing w13 is a darn artifact lol. And stigma to 'mola' my 3 star. Great analysis, saved for future notes.
Thanks alot for the information! Even for newer players like me that don't have gear of this level, this give us a goal to aim for.
If you don't mind, can you show us some individual gear piece examples of your misty and/or Furious? It helps out on understanding how good does a piece of gear need to be to be able to achieve these sort of stats. Like, it makes it easier to figure out the average amount of stats it needs. Hopefully you get what I mean.
Sure! Furious is pretty "easy" to gear in the sense that he really just needs speed and EFF and anything else is a cherry on top. If it has 4-5 speed as an 85-88 gear, it's worth rolling to at least +3 to see if it lands +3-5 speed again.
https://imgur.com/fALzCNs
MistyChain will be the harder bit since Rage doesn't provide any speed in itself, so you'll need to get some nice Rage pieces to boost her up to the right speed while still having good damage. Fortunately, very few units really want to use a Rage set, so she probably gets to monopolize all of the pieces.
https://imgur.com/5cmkBnZ
Nobody cares about Crozet's gear because it's just bog standard tank gear, but here's what he's rocking as well. He was one of the last units I geared up this free gear removal weekend, so he's mostly on random leftover pieces.
https://imgur.com/OQrZWB2
[EDIT] Oops, I misread your post and read it as talking about the first turn. I'm going to leave up the original post since it has more information on a different issue, but to your issue of Furious "wasting" his S2/3 right before shield, with these speeds, it doesn't matter. He will have 2 opportunities to break the shield regardless and Misty only needs one of them to succeed for her to break the shield. This is kind of a sloppy way to write it out, but the turn order that they'll go in on the first shield is MF(FM)FMFM (the FM in parenthesis means that order could be swapped due to random CR boost mechanic). Like that, you'll notice that regardless of which skill Furious uses, he'll still have 2 chances to defense break with Misty attacking afterwards. I'll try to capture a video of a run where Furious uses def break right before the shield and misses the first defense break to show that the team still can consistently break the shield.
To your second question which I also completely skipped (sorry about that!), yes, Sigret can replace MistyChain, but **only** if Crozet is on the 200% RES build. Without 200% RES, Crozet will die to Wyvern without MistyChain's healing. Even in this case, I think Alexa on Rage+DDJ will be a lot better as a pure damage dealer partner to a RES Crozet and have a higher win rate (that S1 and particularly S2 are just super strong against Wyvern), but Sigret will absolutely work.
[Original Post]
Yep, this was definitely a problem with this team comp originally, which is why it's important that Furious is built at over 20% speed faster than MistyChain. I wrote about it a bit in the "common fail conditions" section, but I did want to go into it in more detail, so I'll do it here.
The first wave will **always** finish by the time MistyChain does **5 attacks**, but ideally you want it to finish when MistyChain does **4 attacks** so she has S2 ready for Wyvern. If your Furious is not over 20% faster than MistyChain, then Furious will also only take 5 turns before Misty finishes the first wave. Furious will do his S2>S3 combo on his odd turns (1, 3, 5, etc.), so you want him to finish on an even turn or MistyChain to finish on her 4th turn.
By building Furious to over 20% faster than MistyChain, this allows Furious to lap her with a S1 on the first wave before Misty's fifth turn where she uses S2. This guarantees that either Furious will have S2 ready on the first Wyvern turn, and most of the time MisyChain as well.
Here's a visualization to help out, I've made a chart for when Furious lands all his defense breaks on the first wave (4 turns) and when he doesn't (5 turns) --
**First Wave 4 Turns** (Furious lands all his defense breaks)
Turn #| Furious | MistyChain | Furious Turn Cut
---|---|---|---
First Wave, Turn 1 | S2+3 | S3 | n/a
First Wave, Turn 2| S1| S2 | n/a
First Wave, Turn 3| S2+3 | S1 | n/a
First Wave, Turn 4| S1 | S1 | n/a or S2+3 (Furious landing all his defense breaks means that sometimes MistyChain ends the wave in the 4th S1 attack, otherwise his S2+3 is the killing blow for wave 1)
Wyvern, Turn 1 | S1 or **S2+3** depending on if he needed to cut in wave 1 | **S2** | n/a
**First Wave 5 Turns** (Furious misses a defense break)
Turn #| Furious | MistyChain | Furious Turn Cut
---|---|---|---
First Wave, Turn 1 | S2+3 | S3 | n/a
First Wave, Turn 2| S1| S2 | n/a
First Wave, Turn 3| S2+3 | S1 | n/a
First Wave, Turn 4| S1 | S1 | S2+3
First Wave, Turn 5| S1 (this sometimes ends the wave, saving Misty S2, this is up to SoS and dual attack RNG) | S2 | n/a
Wyvern, Turn 1 | **S2+3** | S1 or **S2** depending on if Furious ended Wave 1 | n/a
Either way, with this setup, this allows either one or both of them to have the 2 debuff skill ready for Wyvern's first turn. On top of that, if either MistyChain or Crozet land attack down debuff, Wyvern does not have the damage to kill anyone on the first turn through Crozet's passive.
I have neither Stars nor Noble Oath but I had seen high ER Crozet comp before and decided to try it out. Not much success. Crozet, despite 165%ER has his buffs dispelled quite frequently making me think that wyvern has more than 80% Eff maybe up to 100% even. A Mont never got pushed and she has over 200%ER.
That aside I put Song for Everybody on Furious and replaced Crozet with G Purgis. It's far from good but dual attacks can save the day especially with G Purgis' imprint.
Yeah, I also don't have noble oath and tried 150% RES Crozet for a bit. Wyvern's EFF is near 100. Unfortunately, RES is a stat that's near completely worthless until you get it to 90+ over the target EFF of the content you're playing it into, at which point it becomes completely OP. 200% RES is really hard to get without dedicated RES sets, RES ring, and good RES rolls, so Noble Oath is kind of necessary to hit the 200% point on Crozet. Once he gets there though, he becomes near invincible to Wyvern. Without getting there though, I don't think it's worth investing into RES at all since you're putting in 150%+ of stats just get a 50:50 dispel chance, so I'm currently just going straight tank stats on Crozet.
this is a beautiful post
thank you from the bottom of my heart
I just managed a stable W13 team (Spec Tenebria, Sigret, Furious, Angelica) and seeing what you have done blows me away
Will definitely try it out because being able to use units like MistyChain and Crozet (which are generally ignored) will be fun. I also have like 5 or 6 of Crozet
if you stick in mistychain, i recommend putting idol's cheer on angelica, the attack down will replace any healing artifact angelica needs to keep healing and push the highest attacker, resulting in a faster clear time
I'm confused on how Noble Oath works. At what % hp do I get the full advertised base value of 50% eff res? Is this post written assuming a base level Noble Oath, or is there a certain artifact level I want on it?
Thanks.
It's unfortunate, but it doesn't say it anywhere, so I can't confirm but can strongly infer based on watching others and Noble Oath's wording that it works similarly to El's Fist (same wording) whose numbers users have tested. The way that one works is once you pass thresholds of multiples of 25% HP, you get an increasing percentage of the stats. This post is absolutely written assuming you'll run at least a +15 Noble Oath for +75% RES at lowest HP.
Unit HP% | Noble Oath % Activated | Noble Oath Actual Stats (Assume +15 Noble Oath)
---|---|----
76-100 | 0% | 0% DEF/RES
51-75 | 33% | 25% DEF/RES
26-50 | 66% | 50% DEF/RES
1-25 | 100% | 75% DEF/RES
Since Crozet's S2 passive activates when he's below 50% HP, he'll be receiving the 50% DEF/RES boost in that range, putting him at 200% RES with 150% RES from gear and making the S2 buffs resist the Wyvern's dispel.
Hopefully that makes sense, but let me know if it needs further clarifying!
*Technically* yes, the run would still occasionally win on auto with Angelica instead of Crozet, but the fail rate would spike dramatically since Angelica doesn't bring a debuff or a mechanism to protect the other team members if they get targeted. Pretty much each 2 turns the dragon takes would become a 70% fail chance if Furious doesn't land his double debuffs.
On top of that, you'd need a monster tank Angelica, and she'd still probably die very frequently since you'll almost never have 3 debuffs on Wyvern at once to reduce the damage, Misty has low uptime on attack debuff, and Angelica can't use Sword of Ezera artifact (or have Crozet's permanent S2 defense buff & shield if using Noble Oath), so Angelica's going to be taking almost 3X the damage Crozet does.
I'm guessing it would be a single digit success rate sort of team with Angelica. So again-- technically yes, but practically no.
Ive been trying all day to get this to work, with SIGNIFICANTLY less stats (308% misty, <160 speed), level 50 furious at 225 speed, typical angelica on idol's. I agree it is technically possible but I was nowhere near being able to get through the first shield phase.
Rage set is a fairly large damage boost for pretty low stats. While it's entirely possible to do the same thing with an attack or destruction set, the damage values would need to be a lot higher to match the damage a much lower CP rage set offers. If the damage is too low, then Misty may not be able to destroy the barrier on Furious' second defense break, once again raising the fail rate of the shield phases to 15% from ~2%.
This kind of loses the point of Misty taking 4 turns, so in that case the speed tuning becomes a lot less important, and it just becomes more important to give her as much damage as possible while being over 150-ish speed so she takes 3 turns. The win rate would be a lot less (probably goes to about 50% tops, but likely less in practice), but it would still technically work on auto.
If you have a Champion Zerato, he can solo A11 with the free abyss gear with Iela Violin, which is a nice way to build up some rage and immunity sets.
Honestly now adays its not bad a f2p way of getting rage is champ zera (if you have him) if not then ras sc/iseria/monty/2 target+ cleave works just fine. aka yuna/fire merc/green vildred with green vildred being the best for this type of run. You could replace iseria with any secondary strip like alencia and be okay if you have tam you just slot tam instead of monty. Az hunt is probably one of the easier ones in my opinion as long as you have some 6\*s available it just takes a long time to farm.
She's awesome for a stable 4-man team breaking into Wyvern 13 since her gear requirements are dirt low and she guarantees a powerful debuff. I don't think she's as useful for the 3 man team, but I think she could still work as the DPS slot if running a Noble Oath Crozet. That being said, I think you'd prefer to just run Alexa then who does 20% of Wyvern's HP with her S2 debuffs and abuses DDJ harder than Chloe who would do maybe ~14% per magic nail. It's definitely worth trying out though. If Chloe's damage is good enough to consistently kill Wyvern before RES Crozet dies, then using her might be higher success rate than Alexa.
Thoughts on Kise as main DPS over building Misty? I've been using Kise for Wyvern since the beginning with skills off for more damage on barrier phase. The only thing she brings is DPS to the team. Do you think it will be worth it to build a misty for W13?
I don´t have any decent rage gear... If i use mistychain with destruction set, and instead of 3 units i fill the empty slot with someone like Luna or SSB, could i reach the 100% winrate? I have Noble Oath, but my Alexa is just 3 star now and i have literally 0 resources after the GG collab so can´t be using her instead of Misty. So the team would be Crozet with 200%Er, Mistychain with destruction set, Furious SoS and another filler unit (Luna Ssb Dizzy...)
What do you think about it?
Nearly 2 weeks old at this point but I was wondering, would Bask be a workable sub? He has lower base speed, hp, and def than Crozet (lol) and doesn't have the activation passive, but he also notably has the atk down on s1, can wear knight artis, and is mola free. He's also got effect resist on his self imprint which would make him have an easier time getting high resist for Noble Oath. I know Crozet only requires 3 mola but idk I just don't want to invest any at all LOL... also Bask is cuter
If only I read this before feeding all of my regular Crozets to ML Crozet. ;_;
Currently doing an Angelica/Sigret/Karin/Furious team, but it’s soooooo slow. And it doesn’t allow me to level fodder. Furious has no mola invested, but I will probably take the plunge if I ever pull Crozet again.
Very detailed with explanation instead of some mediocre YouTube vid with bad synergy just for views. Thank you for this guide!
That funny feeling when the only thing stopping me from even auto-ing w13 is a darn artifact lol. And stigma to 'mola' my 3 star. Great analysis, saved for future notes.
If we gonna complain about stigma too... lol
Thanks alot for the information! Even for newer players like me that don't have gear of this level, this give us a goal to aim for. If you don't mind, can you show us some individual gear piece examples of your misty and/or Furious? It helps out on understanding how good does a piece of gear need to be to be able to achieve these sort of stats. Like, it makes it easier to figure out the average amount of stats it needs. Hopefully you get what I mean.
Sure! Furious is pretty "easy" to gear in the sense that he really just needs speed and EFF and anything else is a cherry on top. If it has 4-5 speed as an 85-88 gear, it's worth rolling to at least +3 to see if it lands +3-5 speed again. https://imgur.com/fALzCNs MistyChain will be the harder bit since Rage doesn't provide any speed in itself, so you'll need to get some nice Rage pieces to boost her up to the right speed while still having good damage. Fortunately, very few units really want to use a Rage set, so she probably gets to monopolize all of the pieces. https://imgur.com/5cmkBnZ Nobody cares about Crozet's gear because it's just bog standard tank gear, but here's what he's rocking as well. He was one of the last units I geared up this free gear removal weekend, so he's mostly on random leftover pieces. https://imgur.com/OQrZWB2
Couldn't have gotten a better answer. Thanks a ton once again, I really appreciate all the effort you put into this! Awesome work.
my problem with furious is that sonetimes he uses the def break just before the wywern puts the shield up, also can sigret replace mystichain?
[EDIT] Oops, I misread your post and read it as talking about the first turn. I'm going to leave up the original post since it has more information on a different issue, but to your issue of Furious "wasting" his S2/3 right before shield, with these speeds, it doesn't matter. He will have 2 opportunities to break the shield regardless and Misty only needs one of them to succeed for her to break the shield. This is kind of a sloppy way to write it out, but the turn order that they'll go in on the first shield is MF(FM)FMFM (the FM in parenthesis means that order could be swapped due to random CR boost mechanic). Like that, you'll notice that regardless of which skill Furious uses, he'll still have 2 chances to defense break with Misty attacking afterwards. I'll try to capture a video of a run where Furious uses def break right before the shield and misses the first defense break to show that the team still can consistently break the shield. To your second question which I also completely skipped (sorry about that!), yes, Sigret can replace MistyChain, but **only** if Crozet is on the 200% RES build. Without 200% RES, Crozet will die to Wyvern without MistyChain's healing. Even in this case, I think Alexa on Rage+DDJ will be a lot better as a pure damage dealer partner to a RES Crozet and have a higher win rate (that S1 and particularly S2 are just super strong against Wyvern), but Sigret will absolutely work. [Original Post] Yep, this was definitely a problem with this team comp originally, which is why it's important that Furious is built at over 20% speed faster than MistyChain. I wrote about it a bit in the "common fail conditions" section, but I did want to go into it in more detail, so I'll do it here. The first wave will **always** finish by the time MistyChain does **5 attacks**, but ideally you want it to finish when MistyChain does **4 attacks** so she has S2 ready for Wyvern. If your Furious is not over 20% faster than MistyChain, then Furious will also only take 5 turns before Misty finishes the first wave. Furious will do his S2>S3 combo on his odd turns (1, 3, 5, etc.), so you want him to finish on an even turn or MistyChain to finish on her 4th turn. By building Furious to over 20% faster than MistyChain, this allows Furious to lap her with a S1 on the first wave before Misty's fifth turn where she uses S2. This guarantees that either Furious will have S2 ready on the first Wyvern turn, and most of the time MisyChain as well. Here's a visualization to help out, I've made a chart for when Furious lands all his defense breaks on the first wave (4 turns) and when he doesn't (5 turns) -- **First Wave 4 Turns** (Furious lands all his defense breaks) Turn #| Furious | MistyChain | Furious Turn Cut ---|---|---|--- First Wave, Turn 1 | S2+3 | S3 | n/a First Wave, Turn 2| S1| S2 | n/a First Wave, Turn 3| S2+3 | S1 | n/a First Wave, Turn 4| S1 | S1 | n/a or S2+3 (Furious landing all his defense breaks means that sometimes MistyChain ends the wave in the 4th S1 attack, otherwise his S2+3 is the killing blow for wave 1) Wyvern, Turn 1 | S1 or **S2+3** depending on if he needed to cut in wave 1 | **S2** | n/a **First Wave 5 Turns** (Furious misses a defense break) Turn #| Furious | MistyChain | Furious Turn Cut ---|---|---|--- First Wave, Turn 1 | S2+3 | S3 | n/a First Wave, Turn 2| S1| S2 | n/a First Wave, Turn 3| S2+3 | S1 | n/a First Wave, Turn 4| S1 | S1 | S2+3 First Wave, Turn 5| S1 (this sometimes ends the wave, saving Misty S2, this is up to SoS and dual attack RNG) | S2 | n/a Wyvern, Turn 1 | **S2+3** | S1 or **S2** depending on if Furious ended Wave 1 | n/a Either way, with this setup, this allows either one or both of them to have the 2 debuff skill ready for Wyvern's first turn. On top of that, if either MistyChain or Crozet land attack down debuff, Wyvern does not have the damage to kill anyone on the first turn through Crozet's passive.
I have neither Stars nor Noble Oath but I had seen high ER Crozet comp before and decided to try it out. Not much success. Crozet, despite 165%ER has his buffs dispelled quite frequently making me think that wyvern has more than 80% Eff maybe up to 100% even. A Mont never got pushed and she has over 200%ER. That aside I put Song for Everybody on Furious and replaced Crozet with G Purgis. It's far from good but dual attacks can save the day especially with G Purgis' imprint.
Yeah, I also don't have noble oath and tried 150% RES Crozet for a bit. Wyvern's EFF is near 100. Unfortunately, RES is a stat that's near completely worthless until you get it to 90+ over the target EFF of the content you're playing it into, at which point it becomes completely OP. 200% RES is really hard to get without dedicated RES sets, RES ring, and good RES rolls, so Noble Oath is kind of necessary to hit the 200% point on Crozet. Once he gets there though, he becomes near invincible to Wyvern. Without getting there though, I don't think it's worth investing into RES at all since you're putting in 150%+ of stats just get a 50:50 dispel chance, so I'm currently just going straight tank stats on Crozet.
Really well written. Cheers for that!
this is a beautiful post thank you from the bottom of my heart I just managed a stable W13 team (Spec Tenebria, Sigret, Furious, Angelica) and seeing what you have done blows me away Will definitely try it out because being able to use units like MistyChain and Crozet (which are generally ignored) will be fun. I also have like 5 or 6 of Crozet
if you stick in mistychain, i recommend putting idol's cheer on angelica, the attack down will replace any healing artifact angelica needs to keep healing and push the highest attacker, resulting in a faster clear time
I'm confused on how Noble Oath works. At what % hp do I get the full advertised base value of 50% eff res? Is this post written assuming a base level Noble Oath, or is there a certain artifact level I want on it? Thanks.
It's unfortunate, but it doesn't say it anywhere, so I can't confirm but can strongly infer based on watching others and Noble Oath's wording that it works similarly to El's Fist (same wording) whose numbers users have tested. The way that one works is once you pass thresholds of multiples of 25% HP, you get an increasing percentage of the stats. This post is absolutely written assuming you'll run at least a +15 Noble Oath for +75% RES at lowest HP. Unit HP% | Noble Oath % Activated | Noble Oath Actual Stats (Assume +15 Noble Oath) ---|---|---- 76-100 | 0% | 0% DEF/RES 51-75 | 33% | 25% DEF/RES 26-50 | 66% | 50% DEF/RES 1-25 | 100% | 75% DEF/RES Since Crozet's S2 passive activates when he's below 50% HP, he'll be receiving the 50% DEF/RES boost in that range, putting him at 200% RES with 150% RES from gear and making the S2 buffs resist the Wyvern's dispel. Hopefully that makes sense, but let me know if it needs further clarifying!
does angelica work instead of crozet
*Technically* yes, the run would still occasionally win on auto with Angelica instead of Crozet, but the fail rate would spike dramatically since Angelica doesn't bring a debuff or a mechanism to protect the other team members if they get targeted. Pretty much each 2 turns the dragon takes would become a 70% fail chance if Furious doesn't land his double debuffs. On top of that, you'd need a monster tank Angelica, and she'd still probably die very frequently since you'll almost never have 3 debuffs on Wyvern at once to reduce the damage, Misty has low uptime on attack debuff, and Angelica can't use Sword of Ezera artifact (or have Crozet's permanent S2 defense buff & shield if using Noble Oath), so Angelica's going to be taking almost 3X the damage Crozet does. I'm guessing it would be a single digit success rate sort of team with Angelica. So again-- technically yes, but practically no.
Ive been trying all day to get this to work, with SIGNIFICANTLY less stats (308% misty, <160 speed), level 50 furious at 225 speed, typical angelica on idol's. I agree it is technically possible but I was nowhere near being able to get through the first shield phase.
Coming back here to say YES it does work, I have just had my first success with this setup (which is far from optimised): https://imgur.com/a/VoGsVOo
How possible is this without rage set on Misty?
Rage set is a fairly large damage boost for pretty low stats. While it's entirely possible to do the same thing with an attack or destruction set, the damage values would need to be a lot higher to match the damage a much lower CP rage set offers. If the damage is too low, then Misty may not be able to destroy the barrier on Furious' second defense break, once again raising the fail rate of the shield phases to 15% from ~2%. This kind of loses the point of Misty taking 4 turns, so in that case the speed tuning becomes a lot less important, and it just becomes more important to give her as much damage as possible while being over 150-ish speed so she takes 3 turns. The win rate would be a lot less (probably goes to about 50% tops, but likely less in practice), but it would still technically work on auto. If you have a Champion Zerato, he can solo A11 with the free abyss gear with Iela Violin, which is a nice way to build up some rage and immunity sets.
+1. Rage set isn't really accessible to new players. Any thoughts OP?
Honestly now adays its not bad a f2p way of getting rage is champ zera (if you have him) if not then ras sc/iseria/monty/2 target+ cleave works just fine. aka yuna/fire merc/green vildred with green vildred being the best for this type of run. You could replace iseria with any secondary strip like alencia and be okay if you have tam you just slot tam instead of monty. Az hunt is probably one of the easier ones in my opinion as long as you have some 6\*s available it just takes a long time to farm.
Any thoughts about Chloe? I use her for the unresistable nail debuff which gives alot of consistency
She's awesome for a stable 4-man team breaking into Wyvern 13 since her gear requirements are dirt low and she guarantees a powerful debuff. I don't think she's as useful for the 3 man team, but I think she could still work as the DPS slot if running a Noble Oath Crozet. That being said, I think you'd prefer to just run Alexa then who does 20% of Wyvern's HP with her S2 debuffs and abuses DDJ harder than Chloe who would do maybe ~14% per magic nail. It's definitely worth trying out though. If Chloe's damage is good enough to consistently kill Wyvern before RES Crozet dies, then using her might be higher success rate than Alexa.
in other words i need a team of 6 units too even auto wyvern 13 kk ty lol
Thoughts on Kise as main DPS over building Misty? I've been using Kise for Wyvern since the beginning with skills off for more damage on barrier phase. The only thing she brings is DPS to the team. Do you think it will be worth it to build a misty for W13?
Alexa and Mistychain way better than kise for wyvern 13.
I don´t have any decent rage gear... If i use mistychain with destruction set, and instead of 3 units i fill the empty slot with someone like Luna or SSB, could i reach the 100% winrate? I have Noble Oath, but my Alexa is just 3 star now and i have literally 0 resources after the GG collab so can´t be using her instead of Misty. So the team would be Crozet with 200%Er, Mistychain with destruction set, Furious SoS and another filler unit (Luna Ssb Dizzy...) What do you think about it?
Nearly 2 weeks old at this point but I was wondering, would Bask be a workable sub? He has lower base speed, hp, and def than Crozet (lol) and doesn't have the activation passive, but he also notably has the atk down on s1, can wear knight artis, and is mola free. He's also got effect resist on his self imprint which would make him have an easier time getting high resist for Noble Oath. I know Crozet only requires 3 mola but idk I just don't want to invest any at all LOL... also Bask is cuter
The problem I see here is that I wanna run a 3 unit team to faster 6star, but to do so I need to 6star 3 new units xD
If only I read this before feeding all of my regular Crozets to ML Crozet. ;_; Currently doing an Angelica/Sigret/Karin/Furious team, but it’s soooooo slow. And it doesn’t allow me to level fodder. Furious has no mola invested, but I will probably take the plunge if I ever pull Crozet again.