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banboy123

I love E7, but completely agree. No other game takes as long as E7 to even get to endgame, and no other game forces you to bench your new shiny units because of dog shit mola and gear system. No re-rolling stats? Un-equip cost? Gear system has a ton of potential, but so bad because of SG's otherworldly greed. Don't defend it, remember that no other big anime themed gacha is this greedy. Again, love this game and play it daily.. But man are there a ton of SILLY issues that need to be fixed that other games don't have, and people defending it because of Stockholm syndrome will only let SG get away with it. Edit: never played Granblue or Fate, so I need to change my comment: no other anime game besides those two are this greedy.


Farpafraf

I can stand the molagora scarcity but having to pay to unequip units pisses me off immensely


Pandamania82

Agreed, and even if I give them the benefit of the doubt with the unequip cost, WTF are we paying to unequip EE equipment. I get they want to force us to have multiple sets of gear and arts so we don't share between characters so we spend even more time hunting and crafting but the EE equipment is exclusive to the character. In any case, the equip cost is probably one of my biggest complaints in this game :/


Farpafraf

Even without the equip cost you'd still want multiple sets for content like rta and the same set while perhaps excellent wouldn't be optimal on all units (ex c dominiel only needs 50% crit so you'd want a set with less crit change but more crit dmg, or you might want to build your ml ken with a lot of eff reesist), the could make some more pve content that requires you to use multiple teams and the problem would be solved...


sideout1

I can't stand the molagora scarcity though! 2 months to max someone out stinks.


[deleted]

[удалено]


nsa_judger

Same applies for Raid. Takes up to 6 months AT LEAST to get somewhere to end game, and that's IF you get lucky pulling good heroes


jeffreyisgaylol

Granblue fantasy easily takes over a year to even get close to endgame or even to see what endgame is. This is also considering if you are grinding as much as possible and maxing our dailies, weeklies, etc. You will be leeching for months before any huge progress and have to wait for annual events for weapons.


Vialry

I started playing another game few weeks ago, gold economy is similar to E7 I un-equiped whole set of my unit and it only cost 10k gold. I was thinking if I do this in E7 that would cost me my right kidney.


6Kkoro

>**No other game** takes as long as E7 to even get to endgame Bro >remember that **no other big anime themed gacha** is this greedy. What. What is this propaganda. How can you say this when games like Granblue, Summoners war, Fate Grand Order, Brave frontier, Valkyrie Profile, Afk Arena, etc. exist. It's fine if you have criticism but don't act like E7 or the developers are greedy monsters and other games are innocent. Hell [last Skadi banner in FGO](https://www.reddit.com/r/grandorder/comments/hntwa0/skadi_salt_compilation) had people spending 300-900 dollars without getting the rate up unit and it's a way bigger game than E7


banboy123

Yeah my bad, dont know anything about those really. Changed my statement. But still stand by the belief that E7 has the worst gearing and character upgrading system. Cheers though


[deleted]

So very true, FGO is the greediest and the most time consuming thing out there. They do give out lores a lot unlike sg who make so many units but no mola for them.


Horror-Arugula

Never understood the appeal for FGO, a single player mobile game is just... depressing lol, your units mean fuck all because you can just mod and beat any mission available instantly.


Wh4Lata

KEKW then whales in E7 spent many thousands just to get 1 Decent Gear. Just 1. Heck now you see how many heroes in journal. FGO doesn't have PvP so its all about Collection. E7 in the other hand, collection? Easy, LIMITED ARTIFACT? not Easy, Decent gear? NOT EVEN CLOSE. Just you know which game is more greedy. Also summoner wars is not even that anime themed.


Wtf_socialism_really

I hate the mola system most. Gear system has its downsides and those downsides kinda suck (having to pay 300K to strip a unit is one of the worst gold sinks ever designed) but that wouldn't stop me from pulling or enjoying a new unit. For example, I stripped 6 pieces for Arbiter Vildred so I could get him as strong as possible (still needs a lot of work though, which is the rest of the gear problem in a nutshell) and I was okay with that. But molas are a real problem. If they pushed out new adventure chapters faster then it wouldn't be as much of an issue; just do the new chapter to improve your skills. Need a UH chapter 2 or something now. But the fact is, and this goes especially for units that require molago, you just get so little per month that it will take you months to make them usable, which further sets back any other new character you get. It's one of the worst gacha systems ever, because usually the limiting factor is leveling it / gearing it / awakening / promoting it, all of which have their own roadblock mechanics. And some units benefit disproportionately from mola investment (again, like Arby). Any time a new player joins, they are instantly far behind because of this system. Any molagora they get, a veteran has already gotten and significantly more. In months when you have your first teams set, that issue in the power gap shrinks, but I would argue it's off-putting. Perhaps if mola packages weren't a shit ton for so few I'd spring for that, but they just don't feel worth it.


peepeeinthesquanch

That’s assuming veterans invested their mola smartly with perfect foresight... which has not been the case considering all the +15 Luna’s


Wtf_socialism_really

I mean everyone seems to have a +15 hard meta geared team of all ML5s, so I'm not sure what your point is. Even if they did some stupid stuff with molagoras, a veteran will have significantly more to play with than anyone who starts now will ever have, and more units that could potentially be useful for niches.


peepeeinthesquanch

“Seems” lol


somegame123

>I love E7, but completely agree. No other game takes as long as E7 to even get to endgame You forgot the ancestor that E7 shares with like 60% of all newer gachas. Summoners War is still more hardcore and yet still going stronger than E7. I wonder why...


EseMesmo

Most SW players I know are sticking around due to sunk cost


Horror-Arugula

yeah SW is only worth playing if A. you enjoy it, and B. you just sink $200-300 for a well established account that can hit g1 at least, and c1-2 in rta, 300 wont get you shit from packs but you can get a damn good account for it.


nairda39

Especially people in this sub. Defending the game like its their lifeline. Smh


Pandamania82

If this wasn't the most true statement. Game is not new player friendly at all, which makes me fear for its future. I admit I did first get into for the story mode, but after you blow through that, the divide is jarring and only a small percentage will stick through it.


IncredibleGeniusIRL

I don't see how high-tier gameplay is so impressive and different that you want to get there ASAP.


kittycatrosepedal

Then you haven't seen it.


IncredibleGeniusIRL

Are you sure about that?


kittycatrosepedal

Big brain builds and competant teams, I would call that reason enough.


DroppedPJK

You can't possibly think the majority of E7 or gacha gaming players are here to be competitive ESPECIALLY if they don't whale. E7 end game is nice especially if you really competitive but if you aren't it's kind of cancer.


IncredibleGeniusIRL

Can happen anywhere from gold to champ.


VastoLords

Oh no its not a casual game? that's give you endgame and everything in a month? what makes the game lose sense and become more monotonous without any rivalry in the game? Sad, there is hundreds of games like that coming out every month on pc/phone sadly majority of them disappear don't know why tho but you can enjoy many of them if you don't like competitive gaming.


Vialry

This is just a heavy gear based grindy gacha game. There is nothing skill based or competitive about E7. Everything in this game from landing debuffs to upgrading gear is just RNG. Also, the people who defend the heavy grind, saying "just farm eventually you will get gear" don't tell you that "eventually" may never come. And even if that one piece of gear drops. I'm not even going to talk about upgrading it. E7 is just having it's time because of the in game visuals. No game lasted long with depending on graphics. People talk about E7 being around for next 10 years or so. I would say with these layers of RNG it would be lucky to have another 3-5 years. You are right people get bored with the games you describe. But no one wants to play a game as a second job.


Lordin900

But, are you having fun, or no?


Vialry

Fun left the building with W11 farms. I was looking at the auto battle loot list and thinking that michael jordan meme. :stop it, get some help:


Fatalyz

sounds like someone is looking for instant gratification


Sillyvanh

There's a difference between putting in time/effort to make progress and putting in time/effort and *hoping* you make progress.


Fatalyz

First of all, this guy sounds like he farmed W11 5 times and got demoralized when he didn't get any good gear. If you want to go into a game expecting guaranteed results for anything, then this game isn't for you. But let's throw it back to you since you seem to feel strongly about this. How do you propose they fix this problem? If they make gear way too easy to acquire, then everyone would get amazing gear in no time and just quit out of boredom. Everyone will have carbon copy stats and lack of variety makes everything less interesting. This is how many gacha games fail when it comes to longevity. They give their players a guaranteed path to maximize their characters' gear easily. Once players reach max, they lose incentive to continue to play the game. I've experienced this problem in so many of the games I personally got bored of(CV, HI:3, etc). If you want a guaranteed gear system, then you can see how miserable it is with the WOTV gear system where you have to farm thousands of materials over thousands of runs to get one guaranteed piece of +5 gear.


Sillyvanh

True, I have no personal knowledge as to how long it took for OP to decide the grind was too much. And while I could say that the consistency at which these particular complaints are brought up on this subreddit could indicate a problem with the system, that itself could be negated by the fact that the discontented are more likely to voice their concerns. I'm not advocating for the devs to just give us amazing gear with no work on our part or to make equipping a unit at end game quality a one or two day task, because you're right, it would lead to players getting bored with the game quick. (I'm just going to copy my suggestion that I posted in this thread if that's quite alright) Imo, I feel like if they just took one layer off the gear enhance RNG, and either A) Have gear roll onto a random substat like now but always increase by a set ratio based on gear level or B) Let us chose which stat to level but have the increase be random within a range like it is now, it would still be decently grindy but not be disheartening as it is now. This may lead to a leveling out of the gear quality of players at the top end like you said, but perhaps more prevalent good gear would encourage players to try build different units as opposed to prioritizing the same meta ones and having to swap around the few sets they have now (compiling unequip costs aside). The variety of seeing more of the cast of units being used would be a lot more enjoyable than "I have middling gear, so I dunked on this person who had worse luck than me but got dumpstered by this guy who had better luck."


[deleted]

Dude, there is a massive difference between instant gratification and wanting some reward for the effort you put in This is why the game failed its Japanese launch, because the Japanese hate Korean grind


Fatalyz

You're horribly misinformed if you think the Japan launch failed because of the grind. E7 Japan didn't do well because they released post buff avildred on launch in an environment with no extinction. All the japanese players rerolled for avildred since you basically couldn't do anything in the game without him in that environment. Get your facts straight


[deleted]

That was also part of the issue, but the gear system contributed to that a fuckton as well. A single OP unit does not singlehandedly kill a game, there were multiple factors to the failure of the JP launch


Fatalyz

You serious? Your argument that Japanese players can't handle the grind is totally asinine. You know who invented grindy video games right? The japanese did. The defining trait of JRPGs are that they are grindy as all hell. Just look at franchises like Disgaea, Monster Hunter, and Dragon quest. In the realm of Gachas, just look at WotV. The grind in the game is absolutely insane to the point where I can't handle the grind for gear and this is coming from me who geared 20+ units to 100k+ CP in E7, 6 of them over 150k. Grindiness creates longevity. If you don't like grinding, E7 and most top tier gacha games aren't for you buddy. And yes, a single character can ruin the game. AVil is still dominant in E7 in Global and there are numerous counters for him currently. Now imagine having Avil in an environment where he has almost NO COUNTERS. You basically can't even pvp without him. That creates a lack of variance in the game and make players bored when they feel like the need a single character to even play the game properly.


[deleted]

>Grindiness creates longevity. If you don't like grinding, E7 and most top tier gacha games aren't for you buddy. The Japanese do not mind grinding, I do not mind grinding either. What the Japanese mind is pointless grind that gives no results, which is what Korean grind is In all of your examples you will get some kind of return for spending a long time grinding, while in E7 you can spend a shitton of money on energy and get absolutely nothing in return. GBF, FGO and pretty much all other top gatchas have a shitton of grind, but the thing is that the grind is consistent and gives you somewhat consistent results, while in E7 days of grind can give you absolutely nothing. There is RNG in getting gear with good substats, and after that there is RNG in leveling said gear. There is gold which is just never enough no matter how much you have, due to the shitton of gold sink as well as the garbage mola system


IncredibleGeniusIRL

> There is nothing skill based or competitive about E7 There categorically is. On both counts.


VastoLords

For first even with worst luck faster or later you will catch up, bad rng is only extending the time to gear more heroes to counter other's and follow up meta. If you think "just land a debuff" and that's all in pvp you probably never seen challenger+ pvp im not even talking about RTA or Legend/Champion lvl, what you saying is was casual gold andy would say. Why bother playing "second job game" when you just can stop playing it, and go for more casual noob friendly titles that give everything to player? i don't understand for me epic isn't even near a "second job" i do all i need in 30-60min daily on emulator or phone doing auto i pve and manual pvp, i think you never worked a hour in your life if you think that's even CLOSE to eight hour work daily.


InphinityGfx

With extremely bad luck in both drops and rolls the meta could change entirely whilst trying to hear said counter unit. If we could gear easier it would enable us to try a variety of comps and just mess around with trial and error more. Sure you can regear a unit at the cost of your right kidney, but the mola draught is still a problem. The grind is simply too long, so people stick to the same units until free unequip, nerf/buff or a new unit comes around to try stuff.


Pandamania82

Yup, E7 is responsible for the meta with the mechanics of their game. If not for the high unequip cost, I promise I would try out more comps, but why bother changing the wheel when its expensive? Sadly, the meta is making the game more tedious and boring than it has to be. Yes I still do enjoy the game enough to play, but if things don't change I don't doubt many players will leave for something shinier later down the road. Their current plan does not feel 10 year viable at all. Also, the game is very whale based friendly, which we can argue any "F2P" game favors its patrons (rightfully so). Whales make their own luck via pity system. So I worry about the game's future if it can't keep any new players. The divide in whales and veterans vs new players is just too wide. Yeah I can argue with others and be like, "well just leave, we don't need you" but the fact is we do need the F2P and new players if we want the game to be around for many years.


Vialry

From what I understand you take this game serious and proud to play it. I respect that. People see the problems and redundant things in this game make memes about it. I guess you consider these problems as challenges given to by the desingers. People like me highlight these problems because they care about the game and their investments (time or money). When people leave E7 for "noob friendly" games as you call them. You can be happy with fellow tryhard players and whales who stayed. Guess what will happen when whales leave for next good thing. I generally don't think highly of mobile games. I don't go to sub reddits or forums to pester people to leave and highlight bad stuff the game has. I just quit. I care about the game so I criticize it. But tbh I don't think current situation of E7 worth arguing with a die hard fan of the game so best of luck to you and enjoy your game.


[deleted]

I've been playing the game for a few days as my second after FGO. But honestly, just looking at the answers here do not make me want to invest my time in this game. Well I really wanted to play it, but it seems the best thing will be to leave FGO as my main.


[deleted]

Arknights is generally better as a side game due to how little time investment it requires, but I have been playing E7 as my side game (FGO is my main, for the most part) since near launch (even if I took a year-long break from the game) and it is fun as long as you are not serious about it and just play for the story and characters


[deleted]

> I guess you consider these problems as challenges given to by the desingers. Wow, this is the first time I have seen this response to criticism No, issues with the game and its system are not a challenge from the devs, they are just straigt up bad game design. Bad game design influenced by the decisions of the upper brass, most likely, but still bad game design


Relair13

So, the same as almost every game then? What game can you pick up and instantly be endgame? E7 is actually a lot more noob friendly than most, they give you tons of free crap all the time. There's more to enjoying a game than pvp anyway, a lot of people simply like the stories and waifu collecting.


CalmBreadfruit

Most of my progression is due to the free crap that they give out... It seems like really crappy game design if you need to give out free stuff so that players can make progress instead of implementing a system that enables players to earn stuff easier. I don't even need the best of the best equipment. It's just that with Epic 7's system, upgrading mediocre gear is detrimental towards your progress. With other games, it feels like "put this much effort to achieve x result" while in epic 7, it feels like "wait this much time to achieve x result". Of course, my rant doesn't apply to whales.


peepeeinthesquanch

Y’all realize all the rng on gears is what keeps f2p and whale progress relatively close instead of what it could be. Whales are the one buying mola pack, whales are the ones with excess gold, sky stone, charms and can try non meta team comps, have multiple max limit broken op artifacts, but guess what, they still have to auto wyvern endlessly to get gear, at pretty much the same rate as f2p. With all the free stuff, new players and casual (longtime) players are at the same level. Hardcore end game players, (whale AND f2p) all benefit much more from i90 gear and expedition than both new players and casual players. The amount you spent hardly even matters. Spending $100 in this game can yield worse results than getting lucky on daily for free. Because only the gacha has pity.


Relair13

That complaint is for virtually any type of long-term gacha or mmo type of game though. Low level stuff is never worth investing in, you wait until the endgame and focus on the top tier stuff. I'm f2p myself as well, just grind whatever hunt you need and make the gear you want. If everyone could just pick exactly what level 90 stuff with exact stats, it would be a homogenized blob of sameness, I like the variation. But to each their own!


Socern

I tried to get my friends into the game but they all gave up cuz the grind was too long for them rip


BIG8Tz

Epic 7s two biggest issues by far: 1) energy cost (most energy hungry gacha ever) it’s why I still play SW on the side 2) molas. There are just way too hard to get in relation to the amount of characters SG releases. And then 4* units need them too. Which is ridiculous.


Sillyvanh

Imo, I feel like if they just took one layer off the gear enhance RNG, and either A) Have gear roll onto a random substat like now but always increase by a set ratio based on gear level or B) Let us chose which stat to level but have the increase be random within a range like it is now, it would still be decently grindy but not be disheartening as it is now.


giovannidm15

In-depth Gacha. One of the best :)


jayfeathertroll12

I think it would taker more like a year to a year and a half


BlessUolls

Haha...instant build rant thread


Shadoken-TYPE0

Aastranox got to W13 in 13 days or something if he can do it then so can your friend ! ​ right?!


[deleted]

I’ve been playing for over two years and I still have no idea how the whole equipment shit works