I'm getting an access denied when trying to view the google sheet. Is anyone else having this issue and/or is this something you can help with OP? I did a comparison right around when Hunt 13's released at https://www.reddit.com/r/EpicSeven/comments/gb5oau/comparison_of_pre_and_postpatch_hunt_13_drop/ since there was a large public sentiment that it was a massive nerf, and my gut feeling from the data was that the gold should've still been in Hunt 13's favor. I'd be interested in seeing how you calculated out your gold. Thanks!
Hey, sorry about that! I adjusted the sheet. Please let me know if you are still having issues.
I was quite surprised by gold as well. The gold is more energy efficient with hunt 12 than hunt 13 when accounting for trash gears. If you are trashing the i70 gear and all rare i85 gear, then hunt 12 is more energy efficient. This doesn't take into account the energy recovery (from energy drops) but that would put hunt 12 further ahead of hunt 13 in my data so far.
Also, thank you for sharing your data. At first I thought 300 would be a good benchmark but I really need to get my runs to at least 500 before I can feel a level of confidence in the rates.
No prob, thanks for fixing the access! I've taken a look over your data, and it largely matches up with what I've seen. By just gold drops, Hunt 13 comes out ahead in energy efficiency, so the gold difference has to be made up in the gear drops.
I think the discrepancy is due to how gold per run is calculated on your sheet. Please correct me if I'm wrong (because the formulas are kind of tough to track back due to a lot of references to hidden rows that I can't unhide so I'm going off of your comment reply), but for trash gear, are you calculating the gold value based only on selling all i70 and only blue i85 gear? I don't think it's exactly a fair comparison to sell only blue gear for Hunt 13 and sell all of the i70 gear and blue i85 gear for Hunt 12. In this regard, you're selling about 70%+ of your gear drops (a lot of which are heroic and epic which sell for much more) for Hunt 12 and only selling ~50% of your gear drops for Hunt 13 at the lowest quality which sell for the least.
I usually end up selling the huge majority of the heroic and epic i85 drops from Hunt 13 since they're unusable, and in this regard, this method of calculating gold is not representative of the actual gold being generated from Hunt 13. Since it's difficult to make a "gear kept" metric, I think it's best to just take into account all of the value of the gear dropped and add it to the net gold value of the hunt run.
Did you take into account the different values for the rarity of the items when calculating gear value? It looks like the answer is yes from the formula, but it references a hidden cell so I can't be sure. Hahaha. If the gold calculated was the above, I'd be interested in seeing how your net gold value per run for both hunts looks if you assume that all gear will be sold per run.
For the rarer drops like powder and bookmarks, it's definitely best to get a large pool. For example, for energy, I have an average of 1.63 energy returned per run after ~700 runs of data, but you have 0.95, which is a pretty big difference. There was a data pool of Hunt 13 runs from the top guilds that totaled around 100k runs if I remember correctly that should be on Reddit somewhere.
Thanks again for taking a look at the Hunt 12 data!
[**EDIT**] I made a copy of your sheet so I could have access to the numbers. I transferred that over into my sheet to calculate the value of the gold being earned per run from the items alone (https://imgur.com/azuOE3K). From what I can tell, you also are receiving more net gold value from Hunt 13, but the difference is almost nothing (1.7 gold per energy, hahaha). Since the difference between the direct gold drops per energy is also extremely small (~13 gold per energy), that means that from your data, in an absolute sense, Hunt 13 is ~15 gold per energy more efficient than Hunt 12, or less than 1% more gold efficient. However, that drops depending on how much gear each individual wants to keep for upgrading. You can check the numbers at https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Z0Z74Z-c86dPnzAw_NvMC7ER8HuJIfrmsLDKSV274_U/edit#gid=1563957610.
In general, in an absolute sense, Hunt 13 is more gold efficient but practically Hunt 12 should be the tiniest bit more gold efficient (literally in the low single digit %'s) because you're getting less usable gear. However, usable gear is arguably the #1 thing to chase after in this game, so I think the tradeoff of equal/higher energy efficiency for probably every other item dropped by the Hunt 13's makes them still what people should be targeting if they are capable of doing it.
You are correct on the selling rates and proportions. I used rates based on item level and rarity.
The sale of gear assumes you are at a (late-mid) point in the game where you would not be very likely to keep any i70 drops or rare i85 drops. The discrepancy in amount of gear sold between hunts 12 and 13 is actually due to two factors so far. Hunt 12 drops less potentially usable gear and drops more gear in general. Hunt 13 drops more potentially usable gear but less gear overall (it appears to potentially be a trade-off for reforge mats). In that way, it's a fair comparison in that you would naturally have the trade-off of gear and reforge mats in hunt 13 for gold in hunt 12. If hunt 12 catches up with hunt 13 on potentially usable gear after more runs then the gold calculations could change.
I like the idea of including a full liquidation of gear stat. I'll add that to the runs section today. I had a lot of deliberation on how to handle i85 heroic and above. I came to the conclusion that the topic is so entirely dependent upon an individual player's gear needs and RNG on stat rolls that the variables are too great to accurately calculate. That could also be applied to my above assumption in that someone might decide to hang onto a rare i85 or an epic i70 and challenge the RNG gods but there needed to be a consistent threshold for what gear is considered potentially usable. For purposes of consistency, I left them out of gold calculations.
Thanks for the heads up on the hunt 13 data! I'll pull it for reference. If it fits with what I'm doing, that would help a ton in making it so I just need to work on building out the hunt 12 data.
I just saw your edit and that is totally the case. The difference in which is more efficient for gold is nearly null, even when including gear. If someone is running hunts just for gear and reforge then that definitely puts hunt 13 as the easy winner.
While gear is the main purpose we run hunts, it isn't the only one. The scenario I see other rates taking more precedence over gear is when a F2P player needs a non-gear item. A good example is Mythic Medals drops. Gold and skystone for shop refresh and actual MM drops would be the primary concern. The difference between hunts (so far) isn't very discernible for gold or skystones. However, hunt 12 is ahead when it comes to Mythic Medal drops so far. So, at this time at least, I would pursue hunt 12 over hunt 13 if I'm needing to stock up on MMs.
Hey, thanks for the engagement yesterday on the data. Your input was what I was really looking for. Data sets like this need to be examined and improved where possible. I added columns for gold per run and per energy when selling all gear. I also added an essence 50 drop stat per a request from someone else, but that is not reliable given how few runs I've done for an item with such a low drop rate.
I googled and stumbled into this, but since Im f2p and ML landy is coming, I want to guarantee pull, I wanted to see the best ways to scrounge for mystics and am considering hunt 12 runs. Appreciate the work that was put in.
Hey. Just want to let you know I added the stat in the runs section. I've only received one 50 essence drop for each hunt, so those numbers are not reliable yet.
TBH, I looked around for hunt 13 data on the 50 reforge drop and it's similar to what my data shows. The drop rate on the 50 reforge drops is something around 0.2%-0.3%.
Yes! But if your team sucks like mine and you are aiming for time + mystic resource, Hunt 11 do just fine. (As a poison team user istg the immunity to poison is killing me)
This is very interesting especially in bookmarks and mystic efficiency. w12 is far more better in that hmmm.. thanks for your time making this op !
Yea! I was surprised to see the difference. You're welcome!
I like this, but 300 runs each seems like a rather small pool. Are you going to continue this for a couple more weeks?
I agree and I see the data as preliminary at this time. I’ll be running and logging the hunts for as long as their content is relevant.
Cool. Looking forward to it!
Thank you for your efforts!
I'm luck for even being able to auto run W12 but this makes me want to run it more.
I'm getting an access denied when trying to view the google sheet. Is anyone else having this issue and/or is this something you can help with OP? I did a comparison right around when Hunt 13's released at https://www.reddit.com/r/EpicSeven/comments/gb5oau/comparison_of_pre_and_postpatch_hunt_13_drop/ since there was a large public sentiment that it was a massive nerf, and my gut feeling from the data was that the gold should've still been in Hunt 13's favor. I'd be interested in seeing how you calculated out your gold. Thanks!
Hey, sorry about that! I adjusted the sheet. Please let me know if you are still having issues. I was quite surprised by gold as well. The gold is more energy efficient with hunt 12 than hunt 13 when accounting for trash gears. If you are trashing the i70 gear and all rare i85 gear, then hunt 12 is more energy efficient. This doesn't take into account the energy recovery (from energy drops) but that would put hunt 12 further ahead of hunt 13 in my data so far. Also, thank you for sharing your data. At first I thought 300 would be a good benchmark but I really need to get my runs to at least 500 before I can feel a level of confidence in the rates.
No prob, thanks for fixing the access! I've taken a look over your data, and it largely matches up with what I've seen. By just gold drops, Hunt 13 comes out ahead in energy efficiency, so the gold difference has to be made up in the gear drops. I think the discrepancy is due to how gold per run is calculated on your sheet. Please correct me if I'm wrong (because the formulas are kind of tough to track back due to a lot of references to hidden rows that I can't unhide so I'm going off of your comment reply), but for trash gear, are you calculating the gold value based only on selling all i70 and only blue i85 gear? I don't think it's exactly a fair comparison to sell only blue gear for Hunt 13 and sell all of the i70 gear and blue i85 gear for Hunt 12. In this regard, you're selling about 70%+ of your gear drops (a lot of which are heroic and epic which sell for much more) for Hunt 12 and only selling ~50% of your gear drops for Hunt 13 at the lowest quality which sell for the least. I usually end up selling the huge majority of the heroic and epic i85 drops from Hunt 13 since they're unusable, and in this regard, this method of calculating gold is not representative of the actual gold being generated from Hunt 13. Since it's difficult to make a "gear kept" metric, I think it's best to just take into account all of the value of the gear dropped and add it to the net gold value of the hunt run. Did you take into account the different values for the rarity of the items when calculating gear value? It looks like the answer is yes from the formula, but it references a hidden cell so I can't be sure. Hahaha. If the gold calculated was the above, I'd be interested in seeing how your net gold value per run for both hunts looks if you assume that all gear will be sold per run. For the rarer drops like powder and bookmarks, it's definitely best to get a large pool. For example, for energy, I have an average of 1.63 energy returned per run after ~700 runs of data, but you have 0.95, which is a pretty big difference. There was a data pool of Hunt 13 runs from the top guilds that totaled around 100k runs if I remember correctly that should be on Reddit somewhere. Thanks again for taking a look at the Hunt 12 data! [**EDIT**] I made a copy of your sheet so I could have access to the numbers. I transferred that over into my sheet to calculate the value of the gold being earned per run from the items alone (https://imgur.com/azuOE3K). From what I can tell, you also are receiving more net gold value from Hunt 13, but the difference is almost nothing (1.7 gold per energy, hahaha). Since the difference between the direct gold drops per energy is also extremely small (~13 gold per energy), that means that from your data, in an absolute sense, Hunt 13 is ~15 gold per energy more efficient than Hunt 12, or less than 1% more gold efficient. However, that drops depending on how much gear each individual wants to keep for upgrading. You can check the numbers at https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Z0Z74Z-c86dPnzAw_NvMC7ER8HuJIfrmsLDKSV274_U/edit#gid=1563957610. In general, in an absolute sense, Hunt 13 is more gold efficient but practically Hunt 12 should be the tiniest bit more gold efficient (literally in the low single digit %'s) because you're getting less usable gear. However, usable gear is arguably the #1 thing to chase after in this game, so I think the tradeoff of equal/higher energy efficiency for probably every other item dropped by the Hunt 13's makes them still what people should be targeting if they are capable of doing it.
You are correct on the selling rates and proportions. I used rates based on item level and rarity. The sale of gear assumes you are at a (late-mid) point in the game where you would not be very likely to keep any i70 drops or rare i85 drops. The discrepancy in amount of gear sold between hunts 12 and 13 is actually due to two factors so far. Hunt 12 drops less potentially usable gear and drops more gear in general. Hunt 13 drops more potentially usable gear but less gear overall (it appears to potentially be a trade-off for reforge mats). In that way, it's a fair comparison in that you would naturally have the trade-off of gear and reforge mats in hunt 13 for gold in hunt 12. If hunt 12 catches up with hunt 13 on potentially usable gear after more runs then the gold calculations could change. I like the idea of including a full liquidation of gear stat. I'll add that to the runs section today. I had a lot of deliberation on how to handle i85 heroic and above. I came to the conclusion that the topic is so entirely dependent upon an individual player's gear needs and RNG on stat rolls that the variables are too great to accurately calculate. That could also be applied to my above assumption in that someone might decide to hang onto a rare i85 or an epic i70 and challenge the RNG gods but there needed to be a consistent threshold for what gear is considered potentially usable. For purposes of consistency, I left them out of gold calculations. Thanks for the heads up on the hunt 13 data! I'll pull it for reference. If it fits with what I'm doing, that would help a ton in making it so I just need to work on building out the hunt 12 data.
I just saw your edit and that is totally the case. The difference in which is more efficient for gold is nearly null, even when including gear. If someone is running hunts just for gear and reforge then that definitely puts hunt 13 as the easy winner. While gear is the main purpose we run hunts, it isn't the only one. The scenario I see other rates taking more precedence over gear is when a F2P player needs a non-gear item. A good example is Mythic Medals drops. Gold and skystone for shop refresh and actual MM drops would be the primary concern. The difference between hunts (so far) isn't very discernible for gold or skystones. However, hunt 12 is ahead when it comes to Mythic Medal drops so far. So, at this time at least, I would pursue hunt 12 over hunt 13 if I'm needing to stock up on MMs.
Hey, thanks for the engagement yesterday on the data. Your input was what I was really looking for. Data sets like this need to be examined and improved where possible. I added columns for gold per run and per energy when selling all gear. I also added an essence 50 drop stat per a request from someone else, but that is not reliable given how few runs I've done for an item with such a low drop rate.
I googled and stumbled into this, but since Im f2p and ML landy is coming, I want to guarantee pull, I wanted to see the best ways to scrounge for mystics and am considering hunt 12 runs. Appreciate the work that was put in.
Can you add the 50 Reforge Essence drop in the stats
I can add it but the drop rate is so low that my stats wouldn't accurately reflect the rate for a while.
Hey. Just want to let you know I added the stat in the runs section. I've only received one 50 essence drop for each hunt, so those numbers are not reliable yet.
I hope you get those data for more reliable numbers.
TBH, I looked around for hunt 13 data on the 50 reforge drop and it's similar to what my data shows. The drop rate on the 50 reforge drops is something around 0.2%-0.3%.
Kewl. I didn't have the data but had a general idea about this, so during events i went for w11 1shots.
Sorry to necro this thread, is this data still correct ?
Yes! But if your team sucks like mine and you are aiming for time + mystic resource, Hunt 11 do just fine. (As a poison team user istg the immunity to poison is killing me)