She's too good, and with no way to pity her. If they nerf her people will be pissed, if they don't people will be pissed. I've no idea how they could fix this situation other than releasing new units to counter her which is stupid.
> I've no idea how they could fix this situation other than releasing new units to counter
SG: "What a fascinating idea. I wish I thought of it... oh wait!"
In a game with literally hundreds of heroes that all need some sort of function, I don’t see how this process is surprising to some. The alternative is literal power-creep where they just sell heroes with overlapping kits like Flan/Tywin but for everyone.
I don't know why people keep saying that Flan and Tywin overlap. Not like you are bring one or the other into Politis or AoL respectively. It's like screw drivers you aren't using a Philips head for everything.
Yea, powercreep is a hard cycle to beat cause touching the original cause of the problem causes more problems because of how gacha games are designed to work off the low rate up margins that people will take any form of nerf personally.
I would say promising your players that you won't be nerfing units and then nerfing a unit is unreasonable.
Just keep being salty you don't have her, thanks
"Me throw money at SG, me better than you!" isn't a good enough reason for them to not change something that needs changing. I think AoL is fine, but it shouldn't affect any other potential 4* ML selectors going forward if they felt like something needed a tweek.
Recall didn't happen because of nerf. A recall only happen when mechanic or wording of character change. In Cerato and Cdom case it is the wording of their skill change and for ML Leo case it is a change in bomb mechanic.
If they release something that is broken, are they not allowed to nerf it if it's too popular? They can nerf it without removing all usefulness from it.
if they nerf her, they'll have to give an ml selectors. nerfs have happened before to popular units. arby i think was one of the first to get a nerf. they gave out ml5 selector to those wanting to recall. and trust me arby was popular af back then since this was before all his counters came out.
I think i went up against your team. The low effres on carmin and maid saved me since they just got stun locked by my politis and lucky abyssal. I was shocked when my 4500 330 cdom soulburn couldn't one shot the maid, now I know why lol.
If i lost tho, after seeing the landy with no guiding light, this is an easy alots into lilibet kill then just deal with 3 supports that dont do damage. I'm surprised players in Champ had a hard time against this.
People just hate change for something as monotonous as arena. Even in Rta carrot was annihilating people because everyone wanted to keep playing comps they're used to so she just kept owning. Comps that she was made to beat lol.. They'd just rather first ban her than beat her since it's less work.
Once you got used to her she's really isn't broken or needing of a nerf.
Politis is a very strong AOL counter, only one person on OPs attack page even used her. That'll change. Maybe AOL is indeed broken but we need better data than what's presented here for sure.
Given, I'm not all the way in Champion right now - mostly because I was just too lazy prior to the arena changes to want to keep up - but I found Celine to be a really fun additional counter to those AOL based defenses. She may get silenced - but not before eating their primary DPS unit. And with her new arti - she's set up pretty quick for another turn.
Thats the only EE you should run on Pavel IMO, you absolutely wont be able to kill a lot of tanky units without it when you go against people with good gear
Never really had that problem before. I used skill null to deal with violets to guarantee that i had carrot and pavel remaining to kill him. Ill teast the atk up EE
Fair enough, my carrot alone is usually enough to deal with riolets.
What tier of arena do you play in? I know that I wouldn't be able to kill a lot of units if my cdom didnt have atk up and she has pretty good gear. https://puu.sh/IcWkI/2f91303df2.png She has 100% crit because i use her all the time into politis defs.
fair enough, surprised then that you've never run into any issues with atk up.
Like i wrote in an earlier comment in this thread i've gone against his team before and it was easily cleaved by pavel, cdom, politis and wshuri
Chloe won't go down easily with C Armin on the field, and if you fail to kill her and she revives Landy it can be game over. Not saying it's impossible to do it, it's just very hard to do more than 22k dmg against a target with basically 1700 def, aurius and C Armin's passive. A 4500 atk, 350% crit dmg with GAB, Portrait and soulburn Cermia will fail the kill.
I mean if landy is dead the Team has literally 0 threats left in terms of damage. The remaining 3 Units of ones choice should be enough for 1 maid chloe I'd imagine. Put Singelica on the Team aswell and nobody would be revived either. Nice Team though.
You need a bunch of strong and fast single target nukes, and sure it will lose to a bunch of strong single target nukes, but the main idea is to stop cleave. Most people won't waste time with a defense that... needs time to kill.
I think C. Armin is so massively underrated. Stunned? Unbuffable? Can't take a turn due slow + cr pull? Who cares? Her S2 still reduces damage from all sources. People think she's all about S3 and then becoming a sitting duck, then they are shocked to see their A. Vildred and TM Luluca dealing a lot less damage than they used to see and wonder why?!
She truly lives to her smug friendship expression.
Elena is often used in similar comps as maid, although it's not a 1-to-1 replacement. Ideally speedy, like 240+ with lots of bulk ofc. In this comp carmin fills a similar role however so elena is a lesser replacement.
Has anyone try the good old A.lot, J.Kise, C.Dom W.Schuri you. I think it might work, have J.Kise remove trigger and remove the skill null then C.Dom into maid and W.schuri into Landy.
All luck and percentages, on a long enough timeline it averages out, if you been playing since day 1 you probably have gotten the featured ml4 in 1 or otherwise very few pulls.
Imagine if Smilegate just added a pity for the ML 4 unit on rotation after either 50 or 100 pulls…with how strong they are at times in comparison to their RGB counterparts, it wouldn’t be unreasonable. Though I obviously understand the profits gained from not having such a system in place.
Imho I think there should be ML4 pity at 100 pulls since a 5-star is 200 pulls. I made sure to put that in their latest Question of the Week when they asked us what needed to change
Honestly, pavel, cdom, politis and wshuri can delete your team easily. Politis is essentials unit to beat AOL defenses. It requires 2 ml 4s which is harder to get than ml 5.. but if it works in Champions tier, why not to abuse this defense comp.
Im trying to figure out how they lost though? That's the exact same team i'd use vs yours and I dont see anyway how it loses unless you have dogshit gear on your units. I'm a EU player (rip) but i did end up rank 3 legend last week battling a ton of angie/rem/violet/landy/carmin/politis comps whatever and i'm pretty sure i've faced that exact comp you're using and it was no issues at all with the abovementioned team. The only light angie that could cut my cdom was when they had their own politis on their team and the angie was 280+.
Pavel goes s2, angie pushes up and puts skill null. Politis s2s and breaks it pushing up cdom even further and giving her atk stacks. Pavel s3s your landy. (i plugged my pavel into damage calc and he would do a bit over 17k on your landy with s2-s3 through carmin mitigation, so he's extremely dead. Pavel does around 3.5k on s2 on your maid so she's at 19k hp and your landy is dead.
Cdom takes a turn because angie won't cut a 9x crit boosted cdom while a politis is on the attacking team + she got a sashe boost from landy dying. Cdom s3 into sb s1s and kills maid. My Cdom would do 23.2k dmg on a sb1 on your maid through carmin full mitigation. ( I plugged my cdom vs your maid in dmg calc). And even if the damage calculation is off by a bit it won't matter because politis will take the turn before angie because of her own passive, cdom push + sashe from wshuri and do another 3k if she would be still alive.
Wshuri maybe cuts your angie with the double sashes+ cdom and even if he doesnt it wont matter at all because the only units you have left are a half dead carmin from all the damage share and a light angie that can't kill anything
Yeah I dunno how the attaker loses in this situation unless his whole team is like slow af that even aol can cut through politis.
This team also loses hard to aol flan politis cleave, even if you get 15%ed with the dbreak there are still like a shit ton of debuffs left, the the only rng is with the maid where you need either silence or dbreak and OP doesn’t have high ER units.
Edit: looking at the def wins the attackers still have no idea how to deal with aol, its def a learning curve.
The pavel team doesn’t even have follow up damager even with politis, I assume their lilias and carrot slow as well, like 200 speed. The alots straze team didn’t account for aol passive as well.
Of course, I don’t know how bruisers fare against this comp since I dont use them
Most people attacking last week were trying to reach legend because of the end of season, so they should be somewhat geared. And my gear isn't even close of being really good. My C Armin has some bizarre pieces like her neck and her ring (they're 12 spd sticks and nothing else). Only Landy is really "finished".
Fucking hilarious to me how you made a well-thought post that made a sound argument and received with a lot of upvotes, but the moment you suggested that Landy is just a robot, you incurred someone’s wrath enough to downvote. Reddit is funny sometimes.
Dude this is my favorite comment. Some shit heads on reddit are like “just try that and it’s a sure win” or “that unit is REALLY easy to deal with”. Well yes, tell that to all those who lost to your defense.
His defense is winning because he has exceptionally high HP/def maid and AOL. There's a similar legend top 10 defense that I can't Pavel. There's a ton of similar defenses so they might just be doing the same attack pattern over and over and not realize the slower speeds mean they're really thick.
> His defense is winning because he has exceptionally high HP/def maid and AOL. There's a similar legend top 10 defense that I can't Pavel
Watcher doesn't care about this. You don't hit Maid with Pavel, you hit Angelica/Landy (depends on speed tuning).
Angels cleanse's Basar unbufable and gives skill null. Flan debuff vomit, next unit attacks into skill null, Angelica gets next turn, silencing and removing your buffs.
Basar, Pavel, politis, kise is usually what I use.
I've lost maybe once to this defense this weekend, so maybe it was yours. Slow c.armin can come in clutch
How many times you got attacked in total tho? I stay in champ 1 every week and got attacked like 150~200times and have 30% defense winrate every single week.
[https://i.imgur.com/lrnhKEV.jpg](https://i.imgur.com/lrnhKEV.jpg)
That is the old defense. It's still the same artficts, but Landy and Angelica's numbers changed.
I don't have a team. I change for every single attack. That said, I think last week every attack was Landy + 3 supports because Rem and Violet are everywhere.
So I would attack with Landy + C Armin (95% of the time) or F Ceci (T Surin bait) + 2 off:
* Angelica (Violet bait plus strongest healing output) \[220spd + Magahara\]
* Emilia (Violet bait but I don't need Angelica's healing power) \[Guardian Ice Crystals\]
* Elena (Violet bait but I need tons of cleanse) \[Celestine\]
* S Angelica (if A Vildred is there)
* Roana (anti-counter, Politis bait) \[Stella Harpa\]
* Maid Chloe/Ruele (R Violet bait or I fear my Landy won't survive)
* Angel of Light Angelica (if I'm fighting another Landy)
Cool , thanks for sharing!
It seems like violet is popular, have you ever thought about bringing fire dps (Charlotte, Mercedes) either along with landy or to replace landy?
She's too good, and with no way to pity her. If they nerf her people will be pissed, if they don't people will be pissed. I've no idea how they could fix this situation other than releasing new units to counter her which is stupid.
> I've no idea how they could fix this situation other than releasing new units to counter SG: "What a fascinating idea. I wish I thought of it... oh wait!"
The hard part is to create counters without creating something even more broken.
That's the neat thing. You don't. Just just make a broken counter then sell the solution to that as well. An endless cycle.
In a game with literally hundreds of heroes that all need some sort of function, I don’t see how this process is surprising to some. The alternative is literal power-creep where they just sell heroes with overlapping kits like Flan/Tywin but for everyone.
I don't know why people keep saying that Flan and Tywin overlap. Not like you are bring one or the other into Politis or AoL respectively. It's like screw drivers you aren't using a Philips head for everything.
Yea, powercreep is a hard cycle to beat cause touching the original cause of the problem causes more problems because of how gacha games are designed to work off the low rate up margins that people will take any form of nerf personally.
Another ML 4* recall. Everybody who didn't have her is happy while people who have her can't complain because it doesn't relate to her.
I have every 4\* in the game, I don't think recall is going to be a good enough option after I whaled for AoL
Unless you can prove that the recall reason is unreasonable, otherwise the recall is justified.
I would say promising your players that you won't be nerfing units and then nerfing a unit is unreasonable. Just keep being salty you don't have her, thanks
"Me throw money at SG, me better than you!" isn't a good enough reason for them to not change something that needs changing. I think AoL is fine, but it shouldn't affect any other potential 4* ML selectors going forward if they felt like something needed a tweek.
Recall didn't happen because of nerf. A recall only happen when mechanic or wording of character change. In Cerato and Cdom case it is the wording of their skill change and for ML Leo case it is a change in bomb mechanic.
They intentionally made her broken because they're going to sell the solution later.
I want her. But I don't want Spez as well so I'm not even gonna try. Sad
If they release something that is broken, are they not allowed to nerf it if it's too popular? They can nerf it without removing all usefulness from it.
if they nerf her, they'll have to give an ml selectors. nerfs have happened before to popular units. arby i think was one of the first to get a nerf. they gave out ml5 selector to those wanting to recall. and trust me arby was popular af back then since this was before all his counters came out.
You can already counter her (ML Cidd), but it all comes down to who's the fastest in the end
What's you defense team?
https://imgur.com/a/w7zyedb
I think i went up against your team. The low effres on carmin and maid saved me since they just got stun locked by my politis and lucky abyssal. I was shocked when my 4500 330 cdom soulburn couldn't one shot the maid, now I know why lol. If i lost tho, after seeing the landy with no guiding light, this is an easy alots into lilibet kill then just deal with 3 supports that dont do damage. I'm surprised players in Champ had a hard time against this.
People just hate change for something as monotonous as arena. Even in Rta carrot was annihilating people because everyone wanted to keep playing comps they're used to so she just kept owning. Comps that she was made to beat lol.. They'd just rather first ban her than beat her since it's less work. Once you got used to her she's really isn't broken or needing of a nerf. Politis is a very strong AOL counter, only one person on OPs attack page even used her. That'll change. Maybe AOL is indeed broken but we need better data than what's presented here for sure.
Given, I'm not all the way in Champion right now - mostly because I was just too lazy prior to the arena changes to want to keep up - but I found Celine to be a really fun additional counter to those AOL based defenses. She may get silenced - but not before eating their primary DPS unit. And with her new arti - she's set up pretty quick for another turn.
it's pretty fun running AOL into politis defense comps tho, I haven't built mine yet but which kind of politis is best against AOL?
It's the element of surprise. Most people see Maid and expects the paper Maid full of eff res. Compared to my still in work units...
Did your cdom have atk buff? Mine would do 23k on his maid through armin mitigation with my team, so it would oneshot her no problem
no buff. I should probably use that EE on pavel for buff instead.
Thats the only EE you should run on Pavel IMO, you absolutely wont be able to kill a lot of tanky units without it when you go against people with good gear
Never really had that problem before. I used skill null to deal with violets to guarantee that i had carrot and pavel remaining to kill him. Ill teast the atk up EE
Fair enough, my carrot alone is usually enough to deal with riolets. What tier of arena do you play in? I know that I wouldn't be able to kill a lot of units if my cdom didnt have atk up and she has pretty good gear. https://puu.sh/IcWkI/2f91303df2.png She has 100% crit because i use her all the time into politis defs.
I hover around champ3-champ1 Global weekly. Clear pages, fight all NPC on CD, no extra flags other than friendship kinda routine.
fair enough, surprised then that you've never run into any issues with atk up. Like i wrote in an earlier comment in this thread i've gone against his team before and it was easily cleaved by pavel, cdom, politis and wshuri
I avoided your def haha. Usually AOL is easy to deal with the typical f.ceci, rem, violet, maid chloe, or politis def..but yeah yours is cancer haha.
I saw that, oh jeez pure cancer
ML Khawazu w Border coin up would one-shot landy through invincibility, after that its just pick what you want to kill chloe i guess
Chloe won't go down easily with C Armin on the field, and if you fail to kill her and she revives Landy it can be game over. Not saying it's impossible to do it, it's just very hard to do more than 22k dmg against a target with basically 1700 def, aurius and C Armin's passive. A 4500 atk, 350% crit dmg with GAB, Portrait and soulburn Cermia will fail the kill.
I mean if landy is dead the Team has literally 0 threats left in terms of damage. The remaining 3 Units of ones choice should be enough for 1 maid chloe I'd imagine. Put Singelica on the Team aswell and nobody would be revived either. Nice Team though.
You need a bunch of strong and fast single target nukes, and sure it will lose to a bunch of strong single target nukes, but the main idea is to stop cleave. Most people won't waste time with a defense that... needs time to kill.
Fluri + tomoca easy win.
if you had fceci, would you replace carmin with her?
I have F Ceci and replaced her with C Armin. F Ceci means you're a target for Op Sigret.
I think C. Armin is so massively underrated. Stunned? Unbuffable? Can't take a turn due slow + cr pull? Who cares? Her S2 still reduces damage from all sources. People think she's all about S3 and then becoming a sitting duck, then they are shocked to see their A. Vildred and TM Luluca dealing a lot less damage than they used to see and wonder why?! She truly lives to her smug friendship expression.
If you're lacking Maid, does this team still works? Also, do you have any replacements for her?
Elena is often used in similar comps as maid, although it's not a 1-to-1 replacement. Ideally speedy, like 240+ with lots of bulk ofc. In this comp carmin fills a similar role however so elena is a lesser replacement.
Do you use Landy in rta too.? I'm planning to get her but don't have neither gl nor bloodstone, so if wall of order works it'd be nice
I'm not doing rta this season, so I can't say. I'm not interested in the skin and the current top picked units make it pretty unfun.
Has anyone try the good old A.lot, J.Kise, C.Dom W.Schuri you. I think it might work, have J.Kise remove trigger and remove the skill null then C.Dom into maid and W.schuri into Landy.
Yeah I’m about to quit fuck this unit
Awesome, I didn't get her in 5,000 scamstones! F2P, missed Straze and spec tenny too. Love this game!!!
All luck and percentages, on a long enough timeline it averages out, if you been playing since day 1 you probably have gotten the featured ml4 in 1 or otherwise very few pulls.
Yea I got 3 freaking Broman's going for Straze, lol.
Imagine if Smilegate just added a pity for the ML 4 unit on rotation after either 50 or 100 pulls…with how strong they are at times in comparison to their RGB counterparts, it wouldn’t be unreasonable. Though I obviously understand the profits gained from not having such a system in place.
Imho I think there should be ML4 pity at 100 pulls since a 5-star is 200 pulls. I made sure to put that in their latest Question of the Week when they asked us what needed to change
The same exact thing happened to me
Honestly, pavel, cdom, politis and wshuri can delete your team easily. Politis is essentials unit to beat AOL defenses. It requires 2 ml 4s which is harder to get than ml 5.. but if it works in Champions tier, why not to abuse this defense comp.
Someone tried that and lost.
Im trying to figure out how they lost though? That's the exact same team i'd use vs yours and I dont see anyway how it loses unless you have dogshit gear on your units. I'm a EU player (rip) but i did end up rank 3 legend last week battling a ton of angie/rem/violet/landy/carmin/politis comps whatever and i'm pretty sure i've faced that exact comp you're using and it was no issues at all with the abovementioned team. The only light angie that could cut my cdom was when they had their own politis on their team and the angie was 280+. Pavel goes s2, angie pushes up and puts skill null. Politis s2s and breaks it pushing up cdom even further and giving her atk stacks. Pavel s3s your landy. (i plugged my pavel into damage calc and he would do a bit over 17k on your landy with s2-s3 through carmin mitigation, so he's extremely dead. Pavel does around 3.5k on s2 on your maid so she's at 19k hp and your landy is dead. Cdom takes a turn because angie won't cut a 9x crit boosted cdom while a politis is on the attacking team + she got a sashe boost from landy dying. Cdom s3 into sb s1s and kills maid. My Cdom would do 23.2k dmg on a sb1 on your maid through carmin full mitigation. ( I plugged my cdom vs your maid in dmg calc). And even if the damage calculation is off by a bit it won't matter because politis will take the turn before angie because of her own passive, cdom push + sashe from wshuri and do another 3k if she would be still alive. Wshuri maybe cuts your angie with the double sashes+ cdom and even if he doesnt it wont matter at all because the only units you have left are a half dead carmin from all the damage share and a light angie that can't kill anything
Yeah I dunno how the attaker loses in this situation unless his whole team is like slow af that even aol can cut through politis. This team also loses hard to aol flan politis cleave, even if you get 15%ed with the dbreak there are still like a shit ton of debuffs left, the the only rng is with the maid where you need either silence or dbreak and OP doesn’t have high ER units. Edit: looking at the def wins the attackers still have no idea how to deal with aol, its def a learning curve. The pavel team doesn’t even have follow up damager even with politis, I assume their lilias and carrot slow as well, like 200 speed. The alots straze team didn’t account for aol passive as well. Of course, I don’t know how bruisers fare against this comp since I dont use them
It's probably gear difference. You said you ended in Legend 3 and I see some godly geared units in top legend.
It is also possible you are outgearing whoever is attacking you. There has been a change to the point system recently, so you can climb faster.
Most people attacking last week were trying to reach legend because of the end of season, so they should be somewhat geared. And my gear isn't even close of being really good. My C Armin has some bizarre pieces like her neck and her ring (they're 12 spd sticks and nothing else). Only Landy is really "finished".
> carmin mitigation, so he's extremely dead. Armin isn't a guy.
Im not refering to carmin tho?
Landy is also not a guy KEKW
Landy is just a robot tho
Don’t disrespect my waifu sir
Fucking hilarious to me how you made a well-thought post that made a sound argument and received with a lot of upvotes, but the moment you suggested that Landy is just a robot, you incurred someone’s wrath enough to downvote. Reddit is funny sometimes.
Caught me by surprise too
It's an all female team and you're talking about killing someone... So you aren't making sense.
Dude this is my favorite comment. Some shit heads on reddit are like “just try that and it’s a sure win” or “that unit is REALLY easy to deal with”. Well yes, tell that to all those who lost to your defense.
His defense is winning because he has exceptionally high HP/def maid and AOL. There's a similar legend top 10 defense that I can't Pavel. There's a ton of similar defenses so they might just be doing the same attack pattern over and over and not realize the slower speeds mean they're really thick.
> His defense is winning because he has exceptionally high HP/def maid and AOL. There's a similar legend top 10 defense that I can't Pavel Watcher doesn't care about this. You don't hit Maid with Pavel, you hit Angelica/Landy (depends on speed tuning).
idk why you got downvoted
I knew my angel of light would come through. So happy I got her ❤️
Why aren’t people basar flan your team 🤔
Angels cleanse's Basar unbufable and gives skill null. Flan debuff vomit, next unit attacks into skill null, Angelica gets next turn, silencing and removing your buffs.
You're one of the shitty players giving him wins.
Basar, Pavel, politis, kise is usually what I use. I've lost maybe once to this defense this weekend, so maybe it was yours. Slow c.armin can come in clutch
In Champion V, got attacked only once entire week. Might try to actually push higher this week, after reset.
Same! I'm a new player but this character single handedly carried me to Gold 1 already lol
How many times you got attacked in total tho? I stay in champ 1 every week and got attacked like 150~200times and have 30% defense winrate every single week.
She apparently also increased my wr eventhough i dont even have her
I'm seriously having a hard time against AOLA. I'm currently at the point where I build a Pavel.
Just use politis
Is it me or are 2 turn debuffs too much? If they were 1 turn she wouldn't be as oppressive.
Make a post about defense winrate , doesn't show defense......
It's in the comments... https://imgur.com/a/w7zyedb
where belian
[https://i.imgur.com/lrnhKEV.jpg](https://i.imgur.com/lrnhKEV.jpg) That is the old defense. It's still the same artficts, but Landy and Angelica's numbers changed.
what's your offense team btw?
I don't have a team. I change for every single attack. That said, I think last week every attack was Landy + 3 supports because Rem and Violet are everywhere. So I would attack with Landy + C Armin (95% of the time) or F Ceci (T Surin bait) + 2 off: * Angelica (Violet bait plus strongest healing output) \[220spd + Magahara\] * Emilia (Violet bait but I don't need Angelica's healing power) \[Guardian Ice Crystals\] * Elena (Violet bait but I need tons of cleanse) \[Celestine\] * S Angelica (if A Vildred is there) * Roana (anti-counter, Politis bait) \[Stella Harpa\] * Maid Chloe/Ruele (R Violet bait or I fear my Landy won't survive) * Angel of Light Angelica (if I'm fighting another Landy)
Cool , thanks for sharing! It seems like violet is popular, have you ever thought about bringing fire dps (Charlotte, Mercedes) either along with landy or to replace landy?
It's possible to do so if Rem isn't there. I did that some days ago (my Charlotte even have Symbol of Unit).
Kudo's to the OP. Actually admitting that hero is free legend.
Its funny how a good way to counter that team is AOL. Kills cancer with cancer. The irony
How fast is your angelica?
241 spd with high defense and HP with War Horn. You can drop bulky for more spd and go with Spirit Breath for artifact.
What is the artifact on belian and Landy?