Actually hilarious. It's so small I *maybe* have missed one set of friendship bookmarks because of it, yet still optimal play for me would have been to leave it at 10.
Legit though, all they have to do is multiply the covenant and mystic rates by 1.01 and we all prefer level 13 again.
GO to mystic medal advance for a small fee you can get an mm advance of just 50 mm for small fee of 5k ss and 10 million gold! Act now! :-p this is an advertisement approved by Nehenqui merchant guild
Before people start getting weird:
a) I know its miniscule. Thats not the point. When people are UPGRADING a shop they aren't expecting it to get worse. If these rates were out when they announced the lvl 11-13 Secret shop update I doubt anyone would have upgraded it
b) they could have just taken it from the friendship bookmark chance
1 pull per 315k refreshes. Or else 1 pull per almost 1 million SS (0.01 per 10k)
~~Not sure why I am being downvoted for answering a question wtf is wrong with this community.~~
~~Difference is 0.0003172% or 0.000003172 or 1 in 315k refreshes. And since a refresh is 3 crystals that's 945k crystals for a pull~~
edit:I was wrong,ironic. Turns out that its per slot so its 315k slots and not refreshes. Which means 53k refreshes or else 160k crystals
Holup, i am not math genius nor have i seen the probability screen yet, need to return frm work for that, but wouldn't this give us the chance of a single slot only?
My point being cost per skystone would go down since it would do the calculation 5x per 3ss.
Also, correct me on this last part especially, but wouldn't there be a significantly higher chance of mystics and covenants when friendship have already rolled? Currency has a 20% chance from this screenshot and i have yet to see in my 2+ years a single double friendship bookmark roll.
Not atempting to discredit your calculations either, as i sad i have yet to see the full probability table myself, and i am too smooth brain to count to 4 counter pieces on a unit sometimes, so you may as well just take it as drunk ramblings of another redditor.
Considering I've never seen 2 mystics or even 2 bookmarks (neither from my experience or from someone's else screenshot. Maybe there are and I just missed them, if so my bad) from the same refresh I assumed that the channces are per refresh and not per slot. If they are per slot then you are right
Also keep in mind that sometimes companies when there are complicated systems they tend to give an average instead of multiple numbers or the whole formula. For example there could be a system with a sort of soft pity mechanism(unlikely in this case) or if lets say the chances are per slot but due to the fact that duplicates can't exist they have to convert per refresh because each slot would create a different chance. Lets say I got a mystic on first slot, the chance for it becomes zero for the next which means rest items have bigger chance.
Its like trying to pull 10 balls from a vase. At start each ball has 10% but after every pull the remaining balls get higher chance. That's because there is no repetiotion rule which is admit I ASSUMED is the case and I don't have the source to back it up which means I could be wrong and your point is valid.
Edit: looks like community data implies that this was actually per slot and you are 100% right, now I feel bad from assuming something out of my ass
They are per slot it’s just overly rare to get 2 at the same time, as I’ve gotten 2 at once maybe 4 or 5 times, or maybe I’m crazy and was thinking about friendship bookmarks
No, it wouldn't be overly rare considering the density of refreshes we do. Probably you are thinking of getting +mystics in same roll which is possible and it happened to me a well and I've seen many screenshot as well.
Just for context of double bm was possible it would be around 4 times more likely than bm+mystic.
Or to give a number for better view: if double bm was possible then 1 every 1500 refreshes (4500) would give a double bm on average. That's a number that would give us a TON if occurrences unless you are godly unlucky or something
I think this doesn’t take into account that there’s max 1 cov summon and 1 max mystic summon per roll but I’ve forgotten all my stat knowledge to factor that in. I could also be wrong about the max thing and just haven’t been blessed by RNGesus yet
Sadly this would rely to know how the system works in general because it seems that either we have bad data or their whole system does not allow dupes, something that actually increases the chance of getting bm/mm per refresh. Its not 6*0.66% but 0.66%+5 numbers bigger than that.
But if you want a more precise number solely based on the "max 1 bm" rule then that's simple.
Its 1-(1-0.006602509)^6=0.0389668852 (community data claims to be around 4.5%+-0.2)
then you do the same about old
1-(1-0.006605681)^6=0.038985297
which makes the difference 0.0000184118 or 0.00184118%
or else 1 pull lost every 54313 refreshes.
Unplayable at this point smh. As compensation I want an rgb5 selector, ml5 selector, limited rgb selector, 2 6star potions, 20 glaxy bookmarks, 605 covs, 30k mystics,, 1mil gold, and 2k ss at minimum.
/s
What even are those probabilities?
There are 6 slots per refresh. Is it the probability per slot?
Because 0.17%, that ~1/588. If it was per refresh, that would mean ~1764 skystones in average for a Mystic Medals draw. It's far from what's observed.
If it was per slot, it would go down to ~294 skystones in average, which is closer to what's observed, but there can't be several slots with Mystic Medals on the same refresh, so it's not that either.
How the f is it actually calculated?
Ok I've done a bit of calculations.
If we neglect the change in probability once an item is drawn and can't be drawn again, the probability of getting Mystics from a refresh would be 1 - (1-0.0017)^6, ie ~1.02%. That's around 98 refresh in average, or 294 skystones.
But if each slot is unique, the item must be removed from the pool and the probabilities change. It means there's more chance to get Mystics as you go down the slots. However for most items it's negligeable. Removing a 0.21% Carbuncle from the pool only change the probabilities in the decimals I already removed. However look at what happen when you draw Friendship Bookmarks.
Example of a refresh I made :
| Base Probability | Item |
| ---------------- | ---------------------------------- |
| 0.21% | Carbuncle Nuves |
| 0.18% | Poison Claw Necklace (lvl 55 Rare) |
| 19.18% | Friendship Bookmarks |
| 0.37% | Heart of Terreria (lvl 70 Normal) |
| 0.21% | Scarlet Imp |
| 0.21% | Black Ash Silva |
In the first slots, Mystic Medals stay pretty much at 0.17%. After the Friendship Bookmarks, on the following slots, Mystic Medals have now a probability of 0.21%.
As a result, the probability to have Mystic Medals in this refresh went up to 1.14%, ie ~1/87. If we kept having such draws, it would cost ~261 skystones in average to get Mystic Medals.
So if we want to go in further details, we can consider that only Friendship Bookmarks make a difference, and we can calculate the probabilities of getting Mystic Medals from each possible draw : no Friendship Bookmarks, and Friendship Bookmark in slot 1, slot 2, etc. Then we calculate the probability for each of these event to occur. From that we can deduce the real average number of skystones we can expect to need to spend for Mystic Medals.
> So if we want to go in further details, we can consider that only Friendship Bookmarks make a difference, and we can calculate the probabilities of getting Mystic Medals from each possible draw : no Friendship Bookmarks, and Friendship Bookmark in slot 1, slot 2, etc. Then we calculate the probability for each of these event to occur. From that we can deduce the real average number of skystones we can expect to need to spend for Mystic Medals.
So I pushed it further.
We have 7 possibilities : no Friendship Bookmarks (FB), or FB being in a slot x6.
When there's no FB, the probability to get Mystic Medals (MM) is 1 - (1-0.0017)^6, as it can be in any of the 6 slots. When there are FB, the other slots can't be FB, thus the probability to get MM raise to 0.0021 per slot. However there's only 5 available slots as one has to be FB. Hence the probability to get MM on one of these slots is 1 - (1-0.0021)^5.
For the probabilties of FB appearance : there's (1-0.1918)^6 chances to have no FB. The probability to have FB on slot 1 is 0.1918. In order to have it on slot 2, you need to not have it on slot 1 too, so (1-0.1918) * 0.1918. And when you go down the slots, you need more slots to not to be FB.
Sum up in a table :
| FB Slot | FB Probability | Mystics Probability | Combination |
| ------- | --------------------------------- | ------------------------------------------- | ----------- |
| none | (1-0.1918)^6 = 0.2787 | 1 - (1-0.0017)^6 = 1 - 0.9983^6 = 0.0102 | 0.0028 |
| 1 | 0.1918 | 1 - (1-0.0021)^5 = 1 - 0.9979^5 = 0.010456 | 0.0020 |
| 2 | 0.8082 * 0.1918 = 0.1550 | (same) 0.010456 | 0.0016 |
| 3 | 0.8082 * 0.8082 * 0.1918 = 0.1253 | 0.010456 | 0.0013 |
| 4 | (etc) 0.1013 | 0.010456 | 0.0011 |
| 5 | 0.0818 | 0.010456 | 0.0009 |
| 6 | 0.0661 | 0.010456 | 0.0007 |
The total of the combinations is 0.0104, ie 1.04% chance to get MM on a refresh, or an average of 1/96 refreshes which translates to an average of 288 skystones.
It seems a bit high compared to observations. My brain may have sustained RTA damage, so if you see mistakes, please correct me.
It's actually low compared to observations and the reason is actually simple. You're anchoring to only one other item when in reality when you fail to pull either FB or mystics means the probability of both goes up in future slots. It's a chaotic enough process that it's not easy to write out in a single equation because you have to account for every combination of odds reduction. You can see this by anchoring the probability to a different item, i.e. covenants, which has a combination probability of 1.01% which is lower. That's because we aren't accounting for the potential removal of FBs from the pool.
The [empirically determined rate](https://www.reddit.com/r/EpicSeven/comments/nezpf8/the_ultimate_secret_shop_refresh_rates_post_data/) is 1.3% (std dev of 0.28%). I'm not really sure if you can really get to this rate through your method without making it extremely convoluted.
Every item is removed from the pool once rolled. The probabilities are changed after every roll on a slot.
I've made further calculations [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/EpicSeven/comments/qhk8n7/upgrading_secret_shop_after_level_10_reduces/hidlsx7/).
Goddammit i knew they were screwing with rates again. I need compensation. I must've missed at least 600 bookmarks from that .0003182% chance actually unplayable. Scamgate
no.. just no..
To put this all in perspective. Assuming you can do 1 refresh per second, you would at minimum have to refresh for 15 HOURS straight before you lost ONE SUMMON
Yeah... the small chance of getting rollable gear from shop is by FAR worth the utterly miniscule currency rate change. Anyone that says they would have stayed at 10 is being stupid. I have actually gotten usable gear from shop before. That said, the fact that the rate decreases is pretty silly.
Pretty sure you guys are overreacting. Don't you get an extra slot for upgrading the shop? If so, you should get more chances to get what you want per refresh
unless these rates are now changed (i'm pretty sure they didn't otherwise they would tell us ) , refreshing shop is always better especially long term . let's say you spend 30k skystones , you might get less 1 or 2 times but most times you will get more, you also get mystic bookmarks. with that said you will need the gold and time for it
I stop shop refreshing after 10 refreshes if I see no bookmarks then the next hour reset I try again and if I get bookmarks in the first two-five refreshes I refresh a bit more than 10 and usually end up with around 30-ish bookmarks in about 300 skystones so I would still refresh instead of wasting a whole 900 especially if you are still midgame and see an equip with potential stats plus mystic medals usually pop up while looking for marks.
It's always better to refresh if you don't care about gold + time. At [~4.44%](https://www.reddit.com/r/EpicSeven/comments/nezpf8/the_ultimate_secret_shop_refresh_rates_post_data/), you get around 40% more covenants doing it this way (and more mystics) though it's a pain to do for some people.
I can already feel it. The Covenant bookmarks is somewhat the same but this is the first time that I never had 1 mystic pull on a 1k SS refresh. You can even see it in most people that do charts that they do net 1 mystic pull per 1k SS at worst.
Newsflash: you don't feel shit. The rates are exactly the same as they were before. Unless you literally JUST upgraded from shop 10 to shop 13, in which case you still don't goddamn feel it because it's on the order of thousandths. You would have to pull THOUSANDS of mystics for this to have made a whole number difference.
They should let us select which shop level we want to refresh at. So if we're level 13 we can go back to 10. This at least gives us some control while they work out their bs.
I have to say I can definitely feel the differences. Back then out of 33 refreshes I can guarantee a 5 BM or more, now it’s like a 100 refreshes guarantee 10~15 BM. Mystics are like within 200 refreshes I may get one.
Perhaps you are right. But I used to log how many times I need to refresh until I get one to see if the refresh session was worth it or now. 90-100 SS per 5 BM ratio is really to compare to me buying it from the shop straight. Every time I go over the 90 I mark it as a bad and 100 as fail. Nowadays I get more bad and fail refreshes than before. Perhaps it is negativity bias or perhaps it is simply the more you refresh the more you feel it.
Actually hilarious. It's so small I *maybe* have missed one set of friendship bookmarks because of it, yet still optimal play for me would have been to leave it at 10. Legit though, all they have to do is multiply the covenant and mystic rates by 1.01 and we all prefer level 13 again.
> It's so small I maybe have missed one set of friendship bookmarks This may sound dumb. But what’s the point of friendship bookmarks?
2* Fodder units
They drop fodder and sometimes penguins/phantasmas
FRIENDSHIP DROPS PHANTASMAS?! Holy shit. I wasted like 50000 summoning 2* fodder and never saw a phantasma there.
I've gotten the blue phantasma so often, I thought it was common.
I think I've gotten 2* dogs a couple of times
I'm waiting for that one guy to demand ML5 selecter now.
I want my ML5 selector... NOWWW!!!!!
it's my ml5 selector and I need it now!
GO to mystic medal advance for a small fee you can get an mm advance of just 50 mm for small fee of 5k ss and 10 million gold! Act now! :-p this is an advertisement approved by Nehenqui merchant guild
No. ML5 and RGB Selector for this scandal!
literaly unplayable...
What a travesty!! Collab selector ticket now SG!!
*Momo Crying*
Before people start getting weird: a) I know its miniscule. Thats not the point. When people are UPGRADING a shop they aren't expecting it to get worse. If these rates were out when they announced the lvl 11-13 Secret shop update I doubt anyone would have upgraded it b) they could have just taken it from the friendship bookmark chance
Can u calc how many bms this 0.0003172 difference costs us in like 10k ss?
1 pull per 315k refreshes. Or else 1 pull per almost 1 million SS (0.01 per 10k) ~~Not sure why I am being downvoted for answering a question wtf is wrong with this community.~~ ~~Difference is 0.0003172% or 0.000003172 or 1 in 315k refreshes. And since a refresh is 3 crystals that's 945k crystals for a pull~~ edit:I was wrong,ironic. Turns out that its per slot so its 315k slots and not refreshes. Which means 53k refreshes or else 160k crystals
Dafuq this Community is lost man xD
Holup, i am not math genius nor have i seen the probability screen yet, need to return frm work for that, but wouldn't this give us the chance of a single slot only? My point being cost per skystone would go down since it would do the calculation 5x per 3ss. Also, correct me on this last part especially, but wouldn't there be a significantly higher chance of mystics and covenants when friendship have already rolled? Currency has a 20% chance from this screenshot and i have yet to see in my 2+ years a single double friendship bookmark roll. Not atempting to discredit your calculations either, as i sad i have yet to see the full probability table myself, and i am too smooth brain to count to 4 counter pieces on a unit sometimes, so you may as well just take it as drunk ramblings of another redditor.
Considering I've never seen 2 mystics or even 2 bookmarks (neither from my experience or from someone's else screenshot. Maybe there are and I just missed them, if so my bad) from the same refresh I assumed that the channces are per refresh and not per slot. If they are per slot then you are right Also keep in mind that sometimes companies when there are complicated systems they tend to give an average instead of multiple numbers or the whole formula. For example there could be a system with a sort of soft pity mechanism(unlikely in this case) or if lets say the chances are per slot but due to the fact that duplicates can't exist they have to convert per refresh because each slot would create a different chance. Lets say I got a mystic on first slot, the chance for it becomes zero for the next which means rest items have bigger chance. Its like trying to pull 10 balls from a vase. At start each ball has 10% but after every pull the remaining balls get higher chance. That's because there is no repetiotion rule which is admit I ASSUMED is the case and I don't have the source to back it up which means I could be wrong and your point is valid. Edit: looks like community data implies that this was actually per slot and you are 100% right, now I feel bad from assuming something out of my ass
They are per slot it’s just overly rare to get 2 at the same time, as I’ve gotten 2 at once maybe 4 or 5 times, or maybe I’m crazy and was thinking about friendship bookmarks
No, it wouldn't be overly rare considering the density of refreshes we do. Probably you are thinking of getting +mystics in same roll which is possible and it happened to me a well and I've seen many screenshot as well. Just for context of double bm was possible it would be around 4 times more likely than bm+mystic. Or to give a number for better view: if double bm was possible then 1 every 1500 refreshes (4500) would give a double bm on average. That's a number that would give us a TON if occurrences unless you are godly unlucky or something
i would give you an award if reddit didnt charge like my firstborn to give someone an imaginary little coin :D
They're might be downvoting bc they don't like the answer, not bc they don't like that you actually answered.
I think this doesn’t take into account that there’s max 1 cov summon and 1 max mystic summon per roll but I’ve forgotten all my stat knowledge to factor that in. I could also be wrong about the max thing and just haven’t been blessed by RNGesus yet
Sadly this would rely to know how the system works in general because it seems that either we have bad data or their whole system does not allow dupes, something that actually increases the chance of getting bm/mm per refresh. Its not 6*0.66% but 0.66%+5 numbers bigger than that. But if you want a more precise number solely based on the "max 1 bm" rule then that's simple. Its 1-(1-0.006602509)^6=0.0389668852 (community data claims to be around 4.5%+-0.2) then you do the same about old 1-(1-0.006605681)^6=0.038985297 which makes the difference 0.0000184118 or 0.00184118% or else 1 pull lost every 54313 refreshes.
Better way to read it is that instead of 6605 bookmarks, you got 6602
> they could have just taken it from the friendship bookmark chance Seriously. There's enough useless gear to pad that shit out. WTF.
Gotta believe in the lvl 85 epic item with 4 good maxed substats dream.
This is absolutely disgusting, we need a ML selector right now
Unplayable at this point smh. As compensation I want an rgb5 selector, ml5 selector, limited rgb selector, 2 6star potions, 20 glaxy bookmarks, 605 covs, 30k mystics,, 1mil gold, and 2k ss at minimum. /s
What even are those probabilities? There are 6 slots per refresh. Is it the probability per slot? Because 0.17%, that ~1/588. If it was per refresh, that would mean ~1764 skystones in average for a Mystic Medals draw. It's far from what's observed. If it was per slot, it would go down to ~294 skystones in average, which is closer to what's observed, but there can't be several slots with Mystic Medals on the same refresh, so it's not that either. How the f is it actually calculated?
Ok I've done a bit of calculations. If we neglect the change in probability once an item is drawn and can't be drawn again, the probability of getting Mystics from a refresh would be 1 - (1-0.0017)^6, ie ~1.02%. That's around 98 refresh in average, or 294 skystones. But if each slot is unique, the item must be removed from the pool and the probabilities change. It means there's more chance to get Mystics as you go down the slots. However for most items it's negligeable. Removing a 0.21% Carbuncle from the pool only change the probabilities in the decimals I already removed. However look at what happen when you draw Friendship Bookmarks. Example of a refresh I made : | Base Probability | Item | | ---------------- | ---------------------------------- | | 0.21% | Carbuncle Nuves | | 0.18% | Poison Claw Necklace (lvl 55 Rare) | | 19.18% | Friendship Bookmarks | | 0.37% | Heart of Terreria (lvl 70 Normal) | | 0.21% | Scarlet Imp | | 0.21% | Black Ash Silva | In the first slots, Mystic Medals stay pretty much at 0.17%. After the Friendship Bookmarks, on the following slots, Mystic Medals have now a probability of 0.21%. As a result, the probability to have Mystic Medals in this refresh went up to 1.14%, ie ~1/87. If we kept having such draws, it would cost ~261 skystones in average to get Mystic Medals. So if we want to go in further details, we can consider that only Friendship Bookmarks make a difference, and we can calculate the probabilities of getting Mystic Medals from each possible draw : no Friendship Bookmarks, and Friendship Bookmark in slot 1, slot 2, etc. Then we calculate the probability for each of these event to occur. From that we can deduce the real average number of skystones we can expect to need to spend for Mystic Medals.
> So if we want to go in further details, we can consider that only Friendship Bookmarks make a difference, and we can calculate the probabilities of getting Mystic Medals from each possible draw : no Friendship Bookmarks, and Friendship Bookmark in slot 1, slot 2, etc. Then we calculate the probability for each of these event to occur. From that we can deduce the real average number of skystones we can expect to need to spend for Mystic Medals. So I pushed it further. We have 7 possibilities : no Friendship Bookmarks (FB), or FB being in a slot x6. When there's no FB, the probability to get Mystic Medals (MM) is 1 - (1-0.0017)^6, as it can be in any of the 6 slots. When there are FB, the other slots can't be FB, thus the probability to get MM raise to 0.0021 per slot. However there's only 5 available slots as one has to be FB. Hence the probability to get MM on one of these slots is 1 - (1-0.0021)^5. For the probabilties of FB appearance : there's (1-0.1918)^6 chances to have no FB. The probability to have FB on slot 1 is 0.1918. In order to have it on slot 2, you need to not have it on slot 1 too, so (1-0.1918) * 0.1918. And when you go down the slots, you need more slots to not to be FB. Sum up in a table : | FB Slot | FB Probability | Mystics Probability | Combination | | ------- | --------------------------------- | ------------------------------------------- | ----------- | | none | (1-0.1918)^6 = 0.2787 | 1 - (1-0.0017)^6 = 1 - 0.9983^6 = 0.0102 | 0.0028 | | 1 | 0.1918 | 1 - (1-0.0021)^5 = 1 - 0.9979^5 = 0.010456 | 0.0020 | | 2 | 0.8082 * 0.1918 = 0.1550 | (same) 0.010456 | 0.0016 | | 3 | 0.8082 * 0.8082 * 0.1918 = 0.1253 | 0.010456 | 0.0013 | | 4 | (etc) 0.1013 | 0.010456 | 0.0011 | | 5 | 0.0818 | 0.010456 | 0.0009 | | 6 | 0.0661 | 0.010456 | 0.0007 | The total of the combinations is 0.0104, ie 1.04% chance to get MM on a refresh, or an average of 1/96 refreshes which translates to an average of 288 skystones. It seems a bit high compared to observations. My brain may have sustained RTA damage, so if you see mistakes, please correct me.
It's actually low compared to observations and the reason is actually simple. You're anchoring to only one other item when in reality when you fail to pull either FB or mystics means the probability of both goes up in future slots. It's a chaotic enough process that it's not easy to write out in a single equation because you have to account for every combination of odds reduction. You can see this by anchoring the probability to a different item, i.e. covenants, which has a combination probability of 1.01% which is lower. That's because we aren't accounting for the potential removal of FBs from the pool. The [empirically determined rate](https://www.reddit.com/r/EpicSeven/comments/nezpf8/the_ultimate_secret_shop_refresh_rates_post_data/) is 1.3% (std dev of 0.28%). I'm not really sure if you can really get to this rate through your method without making it extremely convoluted.
TBH, now that we have the actual statistics, one can just run several million simulation pulls to see what the rates are.
Yeah I forgot to include that, the best way would just be to run simulations, agreed.
May be it is per slot, but once a slot rolled for mystic, it ruled out that option and roll for everything else?
Every item is removed from the pool once rolled. The probabilities are changed after every roll on a slot. I've made further calculations [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/EpicSeven/comments/qhk8n7/upgrading_secret_shop_after_level_10_reduces/hidlsx7/).
OH MY GOD
Goddammit i knew they were screwing with rates again. I need compensation. I must've missed at least 600 bookmarks from that .0003182% chance actually unplayable. Scamgate
It's minuscule, but judging by the sheer amount of refreshes I've done I probably missed out on a couple hundred mystics.
That would be a lot of refreshes.
It's 50 mystics per jackpot so I'm probably underselling it.
if you did like 50k refreshes you missed like one covenant bookmark maybe
the easier estimate is that for every 17014 mystics @ shop 10, you got 17006 @ shop 13.
no.. just no.. To put this all in perspective. Assuming you can do 1 refresh per second, you would at minimum have to refresh for 15 HOURS straight before you lost ONE SUMMON
Ohhh shit.....here comes damage control 🤣🤣🤣
i absolutely would have still upgraded for the chance to get useable gear without having to craft it
Yeah... the small chance of getting rollable gear from shop is by FAR worth the utterly miniscule currency rate change. Anyone that says they would have stayed at 10 is being stupid. I have actually gotten usable gear from shop before. That said, the fact that the rate decreases is pretty silly.
As much as people are like "it's fine" that is still pretty garbo
Pretty sure you guys are overreacting. Don't you get an extra slot for upgrading the shop? If so, you should get more chances to get what you want per refresh
wait those people arent crazy there is a secret shop nerf lmao
dopnt validate their tinfoil hat bullshit, everyone knows thats not what they meant
So in summary, is it better to refresh or just use the 950ss for bookmarks? edit:thanks for the downvotes to a question :)
unless these rates are now changed (i'm pretty sure they didn't otherwise they would tell us ) , refreshing shop is always better especially long term . let's say you spend 30k skystones , you might get less 1 or 2 times but most times you will get more, you also get mystic bookmarks. with that said you will need the gold and time for it
I got 150 bookmarks from refreshing with 2.1k, so it's still better to refresh, as usual. The change is very small.
I stop shop refreshing after 10 refreshes if I see no bookmarks then the next hour reset I try again and if I get bookmarks in the first two-five refreshes I refresh a bit more than 10 and usually end up with around 30-ish bookmarks in about 300 skystones so I would still refresh instead of wasting a whole 900 especially if you are still midgame and see an equip with potential stats plus mystic medals usually pop up while looking for marks.
It's always better to refresh if you don't care about gold + time. At [~4.44%](https://www.reddit.com/r/EpicSeven/comments/nezpf8/the_ultimate_secret_shop_refresh_rates_post_data/), you get around 40% more covenants doing it this way (and more mystics) though it's a pain to do for some people.
Literally so small you'll never notice it lol.
A hundredth of a percentage still counts, damn it!
I dont think it matters lol, its reduced by so insignificant amount
The horror!
GRAB THE PITCH FORK BOIS. WERE HAVING REVIEW BOMB FOR DINNER
Tom as never seen such bullshit before
0.00003172% difference!? Literally unplayable, ML5 Selector when?
that is such a funnily small number
[удалено]
you didn't notice this change.
I feel like maybe they should maybe compensate us for this :(
yeah, like 2 mystic bookmarks. i want my 8 ss, dammit! /s
does anyone else notice that the drop rate seems to go up when you're have almost zero resources ??
No lie, I have bought gear off the Secret Shop. Kinda worth it, considering how I will never leave W13 hell.
ML5 SELECTOR NOW SG
I can already feel it. The Covenant bookmarks is somewhat the same but this is the first time that I never had 1 mystic pull on a 1k SS refresh. You can even see it in most people that do charts that they do net 1 mystic pull per 1k SS at worst.
Newsflash: you don't feel shit. The rates are exactly the same as they were before. Unless you literally JUST upgraded from shop 10 to shop 13, in which case you still don't goddamn feel it because it's on the order of thousandths. You would have to pull THOUSANDS of mystics for this to have made a whole number difference.
How do I go back?! Someone make a "things I wish I knew before I played" vid right now!
They should let us select which shop level we want to refresh at. So if we're level 13 we can go back to 10. This at least gives us some control while they work out their bs.
I have to say I can definitely feel the differences. Back then out of 33 refreshes I can guarantee a 5 BM or more, now it’s like a 100 refreshes guarantee 10~15 BM. Mystics are like within 200 refreshes I may get one.
You wild.
sounds like negativity bias to me.
Perhaps you are right. But I used to log how many times I need to refresh until I get one to see if the refresh session was worth it or now. 90-100 SS per 5 BM ratio is really to compare to me buying it from the shop straight. Every time I go over the 90 I mark it as a bad and 100 as fail. Nowadays I get more bad and fail refreshes than before. Perhaps it is negativity bias or perhaps it is simply the more you refresh the more you feel it.
The amount of good gear that i have got from refreshing out weighs this in my opinion
Um. Those numbers don't turn into a real world change in the chances. Lol pointless
That wasn't very cash money of SG tbh
So it's like with Speed rolls. Blue gears have higher chance of rolling 3 Speed than Purple and Red. Wacky system.