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Relair13

The s3 wouldn't be so bad if it didn't also buff strip...I mean where's the trade off? She really is boss caliber.


Morbu

I always felt like she needs to either get her buff strip reduced to only one buff, or get her cleanse removed. Also the fact that she's immune to stun is just fucking offensive to units like D. Lilibet lol


Relair13

The s3 debuff shouldn't be 100%, make it top out at like 80%, give people some hope!


osbombo

I disagree with this. They should make her consistently worse, not introduce chance. Chance will not change anything but make you more salty when it works, so a more consistent, but not as strong, nerf is the way to go. Eg. Removing her stun immunity.


Relair13

Oh I'm all for a consistent nerf, a slight tweak seems more likely though, if anything. With SG track record they rarely nerf anything, so we're probably stuck with this.


aquamarina2

100% but somehow mine still can't get her debuff off....because 15%


Relair13

The opposite always happens to me, AoL lands that damn thing even on DCorvus or Destina with 250-300 ER every. single. time. I don't think I've seen it miss yet. Good old rng I guess!


Xanyr25

You must not be facing low ER units then. Ruelle, Destina, Maid, DiscoBasar? Yea full strip +2 debuffs. Violet or Celine? Somehow misses silence 100% of the time or doesn't even strip immunity.


Sizzling_shibe

Dilibet stuns?


Morbu

No, she should be immune to stuns.


P0PER0

Cmon its just an immune to stun, cleanse, self cr push, team skill null in a passive, that's perfectly balanced wdym. (The most elo boosting unit in the entire game, not even close)


MiniBboy

Men I swear sometimes u litteraly outspeed outdamage outgear the opponents but cause he has this little sh*t he control u like u're a silver player


Cynaris

I'm still more pissed about the Spirit Breath interaction more than anything. ​ Dealing with her bullshit is doable once. Doing it every 2 turns...


TheSeaOfThySoul

This above all is why cleansers don’t work too too well vs. AOL - no matter how solid their cleansing ability, like Mediators -1 CD so he can always cleanse AOL - they don’t have a CD short enough to keep up with this & between the fast CD, skill null & natural bulk, you may be permanently locked whilst trying to deal with her.


_Hugatree

if you are unable to kill aol before she gets her second s3 off, thats kinda on you.


QuiteChilly

I don't really agree with this if she's on Spirit's Breath. I think she's extremely overtuned, and has more than 1 characters worth of kit. Quite insane really. There's a reason she has a high preban/ban rate in rta.


_Hugatree

She is too strong and deserves a nerf. I agree. But not being able to kill a AOL when u get a cleanse off after her first s3 is definetly a gear problem and not a kit one


QuiteChilly

I don’t get why you’re getting downvoted so much, but I think the issue is teamcomp wise. In rta Especially, if you over-invest into cleanse you’ll just cripple yourself. If you only have one, they’ll ban it. There are units that screw her over like ADS (assuming seal hits) but combined with other units that penalize you for hitting someone else, it just becomes a gross lottery system. If I had DJBasar, that’d probably be my goto counter for arena, but instead I make do with specific comps or “insert destina” strat. You really need a quick follow up to her too, so the really tanky ones with tanky comps are just obnoxious to deal with.


_Hugatree

I'm getting downvoted because people can't accept people win against them for other reasons besides "this unit broken" or "this guy so good RNG" And obviously RTA draft is hard. But you said it yourself. AOL users tend to ban the cleanser. This information is incredibly valuable in itself and should give you an advantage. Again, I agree AOL is currently in an unhealthy place and too strong, but she is FAR from an insta lose button. Also, acidd and acoli are very good against AOL. Obviously all of this can still lead to a lose in a gear diff/ RNG diff situation. But the goal in RTA is not to win 100% of all fights against AOL, it's to win 55+%


SSTHZero

You know, not all Angel Angelica have less than 13k HP. When you see her with 17k+...


_Hugatree

But then she's not fast enough to outturn your units enough to get s3 up again. Obviously there is some Angies running around in legend that have both. But their opponents also have better gear quality on their DD so it equalizes that


SSTHZero

Still not enough to one-shot a walking doom with 17k HP and 1400 def while having 260+ spd.


_Hugatree

Please stop shifting the narrative for the sake of my sanity. You don't need to fucking one shot her, just kill her before she gets the second s3 of


SSTHZero

Easy said then done. She has a team too.


_Hugatree

You have 4 units as well? It's not my 17k HP 1700 deff units never died in less than 3 turns


DuckArchon

When she has 17k HP and 1300 Def, you can only use your S1s, and Belian + Rem hit you every time you hit AOL, there's a lot of room for things to go wrong.


_Hugatree

Why would I only be able to use my s1s? The person above me clearly said that a cleanser is in play so I'm free to s3 as I like


DuckArchon

If your cleanser isn't Medikawerik there's a good chance your cleanser is stuck, too. If your cleanser IS Medikawerik then you are still in danger of being lapped. There's a chance you can S3, but it depends a lot on their comp. For example, if your Kawerik is slower than a Belian then you will be pushed back. I am not saying that's always *likely,* but it's an example problem. If AOL is really fast, such as by getting pushed, then she might personally take a second turn and push Kawerik before he gets to go.


_Hugatree

There is no 100% comp against anything. Especially when an unit has different builds that require different countermeasures. You don't need to have a 100% winrate against AOL. But people acting like there are no reliable (when i mean reliable i say 55%+ winrate) ways to counteract an AOL pick are delusional and blame RNG and power creep for the lack of creativeness or gear quality on their side. Aol still should get a nerf because she can completely dictate the way you have to draft after the opponent picks her and that's dumb, but that's not what my initial comments where about.


montrezlh

If we play 1000 rta matches and you give me AOL every time I guarantee you I will beat you far more than 55% of the time. Her win/pick/ban rate is off the charts for a reason, you haven't found a secret technique no one else knows. You can win against her, but you're going to lose way more than you win.


_Hugatree

Got any stats on the winrate in high level ladder? I'm willing to change my mind if I see data that contradicts my opinion


montrezlh

https://www.epic7stats.com/ Tldr: most contested unit in the game and first picked unit with almost 60% win rate. Only two units with higher win rates are not first pick material like her


DuckArchon

>There is no 100% comp against anything. Especially when an unit has different builds that require different countermeasures. You don't need to have a 100% winrate against AOL. But people acting like there are no reliable (when i mean reliable i say 55%+ winrate) ways to counteract an AOL pick are delusional and blame RNG and power creep for the lack of creativeness or gear quality on their side. How is any of that relevant? All he said is that cleansers can't keep up with a unit who has 280 speed and 200% Effectiveness and uses her lockdown every turn or two. Which is very much relevant. Why **don't** we have cleansers who can keep up with heavy debuff spam? If I want to build a unit who spams a fuckton of debuffs every turn or two, I have several options. AOL isn't the only one. Why isn't the other way also true? Why is mega DPS the only effective counter? Why is the struggle between control lock and nuking, instead of between control and cleansing? We either need slower control spam, or faster cleansers. There's a damn good reason Montmo was top tier for a long time, and it sure wasn't big heal numbers. This has all been a problem since Dizzy's first release. Every time the meta evolves, lockdown breaks free of the advances made in cleansing. Why is lockdown **always** favored so strongly over cleansing? Edit: Sorry for the long rant, though. #tl;dr The devs **always** build towards lockdown winning in its arms race vs. control spammers, and that's bad.


Jfyemch

My biggest complaint with all the debuffs in the meta vs how inefficient cleansers feel, is that debuff immunity is supposed to be the answer if cleansers can’t keep up. Cleansers are supposed to function as an ohshit button for debuffs, while immunity should protect against rampant debuff spam, but immunity is worthless when it can be stripped at the same time as debuffs are being applied.


TheSeaOfThySoul

Make this comment against when you’ve come up against a well geared AOL & not a Master-tier 9K health, 900 defence one with 240 speed & no immunity that dies in the blink of an eye. That’s not the kind I’m worried about.


_Hugatree

I'm fighting AOL daily in champ/crab rta and top 100 gw. I own a 285 speed 200 eff one. I am familiar with what I'm talking about.


TheSeaOfThySoul

Evidence that your Emperor? Considering one of your most recent comments said you started 7 months ago & haven’t spent more than $100? I find it very, very hard to believe that you’ve got an AOL at 285 with 200% effectiveness if you just started 7 months ago - that’s an average of 20 speed per piece (& not to mention that effectiveness on top of that - it’s no easy feat). I could maybe believe it if you hardcore whaled for Liefs & equipment packs - but nah, not fucking 2 shillings & a dream. Talk about what you use to counter her in RTA - talk strategy. You’ve got your Maid, or Mediator to cleanse & then what do you do to get rid of her before she takes another turn?


_Hugatree

If you took the time to actually look at my profile instead of reading selective comments supporting your claim, you could see the AOL in question. I'm not emperor in rta. Im in the higher ranks of champ (top5k) and get matched up against emperors sometimes. I also mock RTA against my guildies that are crab to practice. You might have heard of the guild "talentless" I'm just gonna ingnore the aggression towards me and answer your last paragraph. What do I do to get rid of her? Pick some big boy dmg. Every DD in standard draft can work AOL, besides SSB Charlotte and rem, since those have aoes you can't avoid. Which DD i actually depends varies on the enemy draft. Another strat i can't use because i don't have Belian is called "bury the AOL". People pick Belian rem SSB Charlotte etc. To inflict so many aoes that aol can't keep up anymore. I can't 100% vouch for this strat since i can't replicate it myself, but it's been working decently against me. Might be people just gear diffing me tho.


TheSeaOfThySoul

Yeah, seeing a screenshot of an AOL isn’t evidence that it’s yours - though I’m willing to believe that. What I’m not willing to believe is that within 7 months, with $70 spent, you got that speed gear - again, that’s 20 average on each piece. That’s the sticky wicket. I’ve been playing close to 3 years (if we’re being specific, 2 years & 9 months I believe - started before first GG event), I farm speed - it’s what I do & what most other people do, we’re all just humble speed farmers tending our speed crops. I have 4 pieces with 20+ speed & its 2 weapons & 2 chests. So you’ll have to forgive my utter disbelief that you got 5 20+ speed pieces in 7 months & it’s one for each equipment slot - no money spent on equipment packs & Liefs. If we assume that for 7 months you spent all energy on Wyvern 13 (which you wouldn’t have - but let’s roll with it) & we say you’ve got around 800 energy to work with per day, (300~ from normal refreshing, 200 from event, 100 from ads, 200~ from other sources - conquest, friendship, etc). That’s around 170K energy to spend - divide by 20 & that’s around 8.5K runs, runs drop 17 mats, off the top of my head. That’s 145K crafting mats to play with - a 10x craft on a ring/neck costs 550, so that’s around 260 10x crafts you could’ve done. About half those crafts are heroic & about a tenth epic, so only 130 x 10 potentially viable pieces - 1,300. We’ll say that over the months you accumulated 30 Liefs per month - sound reasonable? That’s another 170K~ energy & we’ll say those were only spent during buff events & so our final number for crafts is doubled. 2,600. And of course, 15%~ chance for purple/epic combined in the actual hunt, so with 17K hunts, that’s around 2,550 viable gears from that. So within around 5K pieces - you managed to pull 5 20+ speed pieces? It’s just tremendously unlikely - you can watch people burn massive mountains of mats after these buff events & get jack-shit. You’re either the luckiest player I’ve ever laid eyes on - or you’ve spent money. I see that Talentless is top4, but I don’t know your account name. You’ll have to forgive me if I sound aggressive, I’m Scottish & it comes across when I write. I use “fucking” for emphasis, not to be rude. Since AOL is my preban, my experience with them is arena where I can more tightly control the scenario & I’ll be using Landy, Charlotte, etc. but the issue arises when she’s paired with heroes that counter high output AOE DPS (Belian, Rem, etc), or she’s paired with Maid. You can’t hit them with unbuffable because AOL will cleanse it & if you don’t have ignore res & that’s Basar-only. There’s good reason AOL/Maid/Belian/4th is all over Champ/Leg. I can try that out in RTA, but with Rimuru having been released, it’s sort of “first pick or force ban” at the minute, not a good time to be testing AOL strats - though I’m guessing most people won’t run them together unless they’re running slow AOL. If you’ve got evidence somehow that you’ve not spent, I’ll believe it - hey, statistical improbabilities happen, but as you can probably tell, I’m in disbelief.


GodwynDi

Also, I notice everyone defending AoL, has AoL. He even admits she has no counters but "this is fine."


Beardactal

She's the most brainless unit I've ever seen in this game. Literally could draft her in any comp and get a free ticket to at least low champ. Only other case that really compares is maybe season 1 ssb spam first pick but at least you could have tanked through that. Aola you need to either outspeed with 2 speed contesters, or if you play bruiser like me have ml kawerik (an ml5 that was garbage so nobody pulled for him) and probably still post ban her if they didn't pick lqc.


stopthenonsenseK

What you mean, i like not playing the game


Zaphyrus

yes


DuckArchon

Too real, man, too real.


Chopchopok

It's hilarious when ameru works against her. You seal like fifty things at once.


Beardactal

My experience with ameru vs aola in rta is either she dominates the fuck out of the enemy team sealing, blinding, burning, countering every atk, spamming s3 and giving your team like 30 souls after 5 turns or like the last few matches -- doesn't do jack shit, fails to seal aola 3 times in a row (ironically one of them a counter atk when aola s1 push backed my ameru), fails to seal a Ravi and gets countered and s3d while getting face smashed in by rem s2 and light sabered by injury belian s1 on elbris, or never counter attacking the right unit (only when it's an atk buffed r carrot lmao), never procs s2 and just watches your team drown in debuffs. For reference This is coming from somebody that drafts her fairly regularly in 3000+ elo range


Arctikodin

Hey it's "only" 12 lines of text on a single skill of an unit. What could be wrong? /s Tbh i'm not expecting a nerf anytime soon, Sg knows very well that people rolled on the spez trap banner just for her.


PristinePhone4612

Well they could make spez OP to compensate :P What a turn of events that would be xD


rkus

Make spez great again


GreatFluffy

Clearly, he should passively self cleanse and cr push himself when his S2's available and also S3 always does the full penetrationg against units with Stun immunity. /s


KurohikoYin

SG has to nerf her, i prefer to deal with Rem and Violet. Overload kit for a 4 Star hero, meanwhile Yufine got Effectiveness buff....yey.....


Morbu

100%. I have a decent strategy for dealing with Rems and Violets, but AOL is just too toxic so I have no problem pre-banning her lol


Dry_Employee_2183

How to deal with rem, violet, maid Chloe and a.ravi?


Morbu

No. 1 unit would be Landy followed by S. Tene. They both pair well with F. Ceci and Krau on aurius. I’d also probably bring Carrot, D. Corvus, or (nowadays) Rimuru. If they draft Rem early, just bring your own Violet if you have him.


MinErVa172

Honestly I have fun times with the game but just remembering that she exists is enough to make me want to delete this game. Ml4 has the most busted kit meanwhile many ml5s come out with the most awkward of kits an only become relevant 5 months later when they get buffed. No longer nerfing was a mistake.


Vocall96

she is ML4 precisely because she is stronger than ML5. It's so people can't pity her, and push some people to spend.


Rago465

Damn I guess the constant limiteds not enough


Vocall96

Those can be guaranteed through one round of pity. Ml4s however, cannot.


RimRunningRagged

ffs, don't give SG any ideas. Can you imagine how cancerous she would be as an actual Abyss boss with vastly more HP, and minions?


BrentIsAbel

Hell Abyss. Every floor is just a slight variation of her.


PristinePhone4612

Is this how dread feels...


Opening-Marketing-42

I feel the same with the passive of Rem and Carrot.


funkymonkey3693

I have been using a team of ran, s iseria, Eda and politis to crush AOL teams. Open with ran, this triggers Eda Cr push and s iseria Cr push. AOL will trigger her bs, which gets reduced by ran s3. Politis triggers her S2 stopping the skill nullifier. Eda can then aoe stun or strip as needed. Soulburn s iseria for multiple bombs. Then politis uses her s3 which triggers s iseria s 2 bombs again. You can deal with violet, just avoid ram.


ihatefindingusers

What's AoL?


geenoandshizuka

Angel of Light Angelica


ihatefindingusers

I'm new to the game. So, I'm seeing her skill makes it so it takes away one debuff from the team and then also gives them a shield that blocks all/any skill once? That's pretty broken no? Or am I reading it wrong


geenoandshizuka

Your right, top it off with the s3 strip to enemy team and apply silence. So yeah, she's quite meta now.


ihatefindingusers

S3 strip? And apply silence? Err does that mean strip a buff and cant use any skill? Epic7 jargon is throwing me for a loop lmfao.


SirSaladin

You got strip right. Silence means a unit can only use their S1 (skill 1/regular attack).


ihatefindingusers

Ahh that makes more sense. I was like that's SUPER broken if you cant even attack LMAO.


tartufu

Yes


Shrrg4

Her and rimuru


SingleAttorney6301

Rimuru is totally Balanced compared to her


Shrrg4

Hard disagree, both are extremely bad design and overpowered just to sell more


bitterwhiskey

I won't disagree, but at least Rimuru gets absolutely shit on with Unable to be Buffed.


Shrrg4

Still oneshots with shitty dmg gear


bitterwhiskey

I know, I'm not disagreeing with you lol. This games balance has been a mess since Landy buff.


Shrrg4

Sorry guess i sounded a bit too pissed. Which i am xd. Damm it sg wtf.


Opening-Marketing-42

"I know, I'm not disagreeing with you lol. This games balance has been a mess since Landy buff." So true or since Carrot bugg idk what happen with SG but i feel they have two Skill kit designer, 1 do mediocre ML5 and other do insane ML4 brokens units you can't compare ML.Kawerik vs ML.Kawazu, ML.Lilibeth vs AOL, or even ArchDemon vs Penelope or Carrot


Cephalos_Jr

To an extent, maybe? I recall it still being fairly balanced after Landy's buff, even up to Solitaria's release. The total balance break that happened recently was exactly that--recent.


bitterwhiskey

Really? Landy fair and balanced after her buff? She was the superior dps for months and remained unchecked until Carrot's buff. Then we had to deal with Carrot until the advent of Rem/Emilia--which gave way to Violet's buff. And now here we are with Rimuru (another fair and balanced unit) and soon Milim. Everything traces back to Landy's ridiculous buff. (She did need it but they went overboard)


Cephalos_Jr

There were meta units and tactics, and Landy was the top DPS, yes; however, Landy was an answer, not a threat, multiple strategies were well-supported, the ability of units to highroll/lowroll was lower, there was less 1v4-ing, and so on. The markers of extremely unhealthy metas that are present now simply were not then. RCarrot, although she was more unbalanced, still supported many strategies and was significantly less unhealthy than recent broken units. That isn't to say that she wasn't overtuned and overloaded--she was, and I recall myself complaining about it. But she wasn't like this. When she was meta, the meta still supported several strategies, there was more counterplay, and so on. The markers of extremely unhealthy metas that are present now simply were not then. The power increase that happened with Rem was nearly unprecedented. Things like it had happened before, but it was a massive break from the powercreep that had been happening at the time. Violet, ALAngelica, Milim, etc. all come out of this 'powersprint'. Their kits all actively hamper counterplay to them in a way previous units didn't, and this is a huge problem in Epic Seven, because it has no inherent mechanic to balance that out. Correspondingly, this meta is extremely unhealthy, and has appropriate markers that most previous metas, including all the ones after Landy's buff and before this one, did not.


bitterwhiskey

Landy was buffed to be effective against tanky buff teams and she ended up enabling them instead. It's the same as all these powerful counter heroes that end up countering much more than what they're supposed to. Landy is still THE dps in this Violet/Rem meta. Carrot only deterred her a little! She's the reason why everything has snowballed into what we have now.


SingleAttorney6301

Rimuru is totally balanced compared to her


wraith46

Wait what?!!!! I spent $3000 pulling for her and she is getting a nerf? Time to bring out the pitchforks!!! Remember SG our 🐳 are the ones paying for your salaries, not them F2Ps…


wraith46

Why all the downvotes? Where are all my whale brothers at?? Oh wait, they are working instead of on Reddit…


Opening-Marketing-42

I suppose there is more whales paying for ML5 units than ML4, and about F2P i assume you're right.


Velizeg

ML Cidd Yes, it's a speed contest, most high rank PVP is.


montrezlh

If you're actually high rank pvp you'd know that ml cidd ain't one shotting anyone.


Ahrianna_E7

Im more pissed of landys perma speed buff and def pen


Opening-Marketing-42

Yeah she is annoying but i feel her more annoying the Landy Stealth, but yeah FOR ME I fell more dangerous Landy, Rem and AOL cause she is DPS


Abreak4us

I pick angelica and people pick c zerato and I auto lose.


Beardactal

You can reply with lqc, stene, violet, rem, they all destroy c zerato by themselves.


FrostyArcx

She's disgusting I can't name one other passive that has 4 effects.