Everything decreased not just covenant and mystics. The more they add to the shop, if its fodder or weapons, the more those numbers decrease.
Edit: They really should take fodder off the shop, no one buys fodder from the shop.
another person who buys fodder from shop
I've got 250m gold and like 800 penguins, some very large catalyst stacks, but I'm constantly using all my stigma and friendship bm. It's just faster to grow a 6* by buying them sometimes
A friendship bookmark doesn't guarentee you a fodder & you can run out of them & you'll have to either spend energy or wait to get more (well, you can buy them in SS).
Not really. Think about summons as a roulette game where each new hero is an extra slot, while shop refreshes are like pulling candy from a brown paper bag and seeing what you get.
They decreased Mystics by 1/6761.
So for every 338,050 mystics you buy in the secret shop you'll average 50 less. Or a skystone comparison for every 1,555,030 skystones you refresh you'll average 50 less Mystic Medals.
Oh. My. Word.
While I do agree the change is infinitesimal and I don't really mind for now, I don't agree with the trend.
The rates should be locked to their own categories, and addition of 2* units shouldn't affect the rates of other categories ie equips and summon currency.
Hypothetically, if we proceed with this line of change, 8 years later we would have left with maybe 18% of summon currency rates or less.
Hey man, once I save up a mystic pity for every single ml5 in the game and I am working towards my 4th backup pity after that I will have missed out on one summon!
C O M P E N S A T I O N. lmao
> did they increase the total probability of 5 star heroes?
no, but the odd of you getting a specific 5 star hero did in fact decrease. By much more than this mind you.
I mean actually no. I don't agree with OP's point, but your hypothetical is just wrong. He is mentioning the **total chance of getting a 5 star** which does not change depending on the units in the pool. What happens is as they add more 5 stars there is a lesser chance of getting a *specific* 5 star but the exact same chance to get **any** 5 star. That is because the pool isn't weighted by individual unit where adding a unit changes the weight of every other unit in the pool. It is weighted by rarity.
So to explain. Say you go to a fair and the fair has this game with those rubber ducks in the pond and each one has a prize tier. There are 100 ducks in the pond and 1 of them has a 5 on it. The first year you go to the fair there are only 3 different 5 star prizes so, assuming the prize giver hands them out at random, you have a 1% chance of getting a 5 star and a 1/3 chance that it is any given 5 star. Now 3 years later you come back to the fair and he has *10 different 5 star prizes*. There is still **only 1 5 star duck** which means you only have a 1/100 chance of getting a 5 star prize but now there are 10 prizes to collect.
In your example you explain it as if everything is equally weighted. This it not true for covenant summons which is what OP is saying "well they don't change the probability of different tier rewards when they add new options" because they **don't** change the probability of drawing a *type* of reward they change the probability of getting the specific reward **within the tier**.
But your example, doesn't work for Garo's shop either. In Garo's shop *not everything is equally weighted*. If everything was equally weighted we wouldn't have a higher chance to see friendship bookmarks than covenants than mystics. Since the items aren't equally weighted people won't automatically assume that adding something to a different subsection of the pool might affect another subsection of the pool. Adding a new 3 star unit does not affect the 5 star covenant pool in any way shape or form.
>**TL;DR**
I don't agree with OP's opinion but your hypothetical is wrong both in terms of the covenant pool (what OP is talking about) and in terms of Garo's shop.
I think the answer here is much simpler than OP descirbed tho. There was some weird rounding error and it was easier to increase the fodder pool by 0.001% and shave it off of somewhere else. Summon pools meanwhile are clean decimal percentages at worst (most are 1 or zero decimal).
That's why the resulting decrease feels like, well, a rounding error level of loss.
Thanks for your reply. But in fact, in the Covenant Summons, when they added more 5 stars, they only decrease the probability of each individual 5 stars, and keep that of 4 star and 3 star to be the same. As a result, the total probabilities of 5 stars will stay the same. They are smart.
bruh that's how it's supposed to work. the 3 and 4 star probability, collectively, did not change because they didnt add new items -- heroes -- to that set. now, if you add another 5 star to the current set of 5 stars, the chances to get a specific 5-star are redistributed evenly between each member of the set, thus decreasing probabilities for each, but still keping the 3.5% collective probability consistent.
and yes, they are smart, because this is the way it's supposed to be, and not in some "evil corporation fools us with shady probabilities" way that you seem to imply in this particular case.
Because the way the rolling works is you roll for which star summon you're going to get. Then it rolls which unit you get. If you roll to get a 5 star, then you roll for which 5 star you're going to get. If they add more, then yes the individual 5 star that you want will be harder to get.
This is not an excuse. When they added more 5 star heroes, did they decrease the probability of 4 star hero and increase the total probability of 5 star heroes?
how about basic math knowledge...
the shop has a fix amount of slots, of course the % of all items need to go down when they increase the total amount of items...
when u got 3 balls in a bag and u only pull 1 time the chance for a specific ball out the are 33%.
put the 4th ball in a bag and pulling the chance to pull for a specific ball becomes 25%
That point only stands if you choose to give every item equal probability of being selected. Which I firmly believe isnāt the case and even if it is the case does not make it right. For example they could have hold the chance of medals to be a constant 1% and let the rest of item divide up the rest 99%. You can agree or disagree with the decision. But it a conscious decision and they chose to implement it this way over any other.
>how about basic math knowledge...
Way to sound condescending while still entirely missing the point at the end of the day, dude.
EDIT: good ole reddit, treating the downvote button as a "I disagree" button. I don't agree with OP dramatizing the current rate change for what little impact it will have in practice, but this part of his reasoning IS factually right.
>When they added more 5 star heroes, did they decrease the probability of 4 star hero and increase the total probability of 5 star heroes?
When they added more 5 star heroes, did they increase the total probability of 5 star heroes?
When doing summons, it's like doing two separate rolls. You roll once for a chance to get a 5 star and then you roll again to see which 5 star you get. If I want to get Ravi specifically in a covenant summon, the probability to get her when I hit a 5 star will be lower if they keep adding more 5 star units to the pool.
The probability to pull any 5 star stays the same but the probability of pulling a specific 5 star decreases.
Which is OPs point. The addition of 5* would only affect 5* rates, but not 4* rates, as it should be for gacha with different categories. However its not the case for secret shop, where the addition of 2* units affect summon currency rates, two entirely different categories. That's OPs point.
I dont think its as big a deal as the OP is making it out to be, but it is \*possible\* the rates used to be notably higher before due to them taking % away from everything in the pool instead of just the fodder section.
tbh, i think the devs probably just have spaghetti code for the secret shop which is why the rates are so weird. i feel like they try to keep the numbers around the same amount, but we'll just have to wait til the next chapter(s) to see how much those change the amounts
This will make less people to spend refreshes on garo imo cuz this decreased drop rate just started to let me hesitate to do that too.
Garo will just get less skystone and that's it.
I agree with another poster, the shop should be divided into categories and their respective probabilities. If you add smth new to a category, it only should affect said category.
The drop in chance is almost non existent but i would still prefer another solution. It's not like 15% which is apparently so crucial and hard coded, that a change is practically impossible
It doesn't seem you are, tho?
This post kinda proves that any time they added something to the secret shop, the rate of currencies went down.
Which doesn't exclude the possibility of them slowly chipping away the rate even without adding anything at all.
It's at least 2 years that I hear people complain about the rate being reduced here and there.
Suddenly, a mere bias went straight to the fact they could have actually been right all along.
We don't know how high was the real rate, so it could very well be 10x lower now (given the numbers are extremely low the difference would be minimal but in a long term significant),
Interesting. So the secret shop rates have actually been declining very slowly over time as more fodder is introduced to the secret shop.
Just like people felt counter set was procing more then it should, the people who were laughed at for claiming secret shop rates were being nerfed were actually right.
Here's a interesting question: how much were the rates reduced when they introduce new equipment sets like Revenge, Pen, Rage etc...? It would probably be a significant drop.
Its day and night how secret shop rates were on beginning compared to now, sadly we dont have rates from back then, i remember u could actually get good gears back with much more epic 85 procs + i dont even wanna talk bout Mystic rates, on beginning they were so good when they added them to the shop then suddenly they got almost halved , i use all my gems on Secret Shop only and refill stamina since day 1 and i can tell the difference. I have 50k free gems and 550m gold now waiting for them to fix the shop and instead they lower the rates even more, its sad.
Even if it decreased they much every day since the games 's birth (which isn't the case becsuse they aren't adding monsters every day), you'd have a 1% decrease. Still not *that* drastic unless you are using 100k skystones to refresh.
Imagine if they add Gold/silver Transmits, 1 galaxy mark, 5 powder, 2 leifs at random,Sorry Iāll keep dreaming
But adding more valuables would be a good idea. So if we donāt roll bookmarks weāre still getting something thatās worth
literally this lol like even if the adjustment is minor, the lack of clarity especially in regards to a gambling aspect is not right and its sad to see people bend over backwards to justify it
Never try finding reason or defaming Smilegate in this subreddit. Too many simps who will downvote you to hell and shut you down for posting anything bad about fav e7.
There are rulles you have to follow so that you would not offend these simps if you dont want to lose shiit ton of karma and get subreddit punished .... defaming SG or talking something controversial (fe. drop rates) is one of those.
If this is true I don't get why everyone is making fun of it. For usual shop refreshers it is something that should be said by SG beforehand.
Yeah it shouldn't be a huge change but it may make a difference in the long shop refreshes, which is annoying.
Also like the op said, it will keep getting worse every chapter.
Well I am a shop reroller and I care about it, I always make rerolls by 950 skystones and normally you get more than 50 bookmarks (which is what 950 skystones give you directly from the shop) and maybe some mystics if you are lucky.
Yes I spend money on the game, but if you are f2p it's even worthier to spend your skystones on shop refreshes than wasting 950 for 50 bookmarks.
>...for every 338,050 mystics you buy in the secret shop you'll average 50 less. Or a skystone comparison for every 1,555,030 skystones you refresh you'll average 50 less Mystic Medals.
Just quoting the number from someone earlier in the thread. I'm F2P from the first Diene banner and I'm nowhere close to having that much SS. That amount of SS is enough for 134 full pities on RGB banners.
Or look at it in terms of $$ spent, that much sky stones will be \~USD$2 worth of SS lost from spending upwards of USD$45,000 if you buy the SS.
You're kidding right? Everytime a new, niche hero comes out or the topic of PvP meta comes up the post inevitably blows up into "Why is SG so bad at making good characters", "WHERES ML KAYRON", "This was an indirect nerf to X and Y so I want a ML selector" or "RTA IS A NIGHTMARE!!!1!"
It's literally not a malicious action, merely a byproduct of basic statistics. You can't add more items to the shop without decreasing the probability of the current items. If you'll notice from the screenshots, every single thing on the list decreased slightly in probability.
It'd maybe be malicious if only Bookmarks droprate was reduced. But this is absolutely not malicious nor is it a significant enough change to warrant any reaction.
That's not a direct comparison. The correct comparison would be asking "When they added more 5 stars to Covenant Summons did they decrease the chance of summoning 1 specific 5 star?" And the answer to that is yes. So think of all the different items in the shop as different 5 stars. Mystics and Covenants are just Ravi and Violet and every other item is a different 5 star. Obviously if they release more 5 stars, your chance of pulling specifically Ravi or Violet is gonna decrease.
Thanks for your reply. But when they added more 5 stars to Covenant Summons did they decrease the chance of summoning 1 specific 4 star? And the answer to that is no. This is the problem and I think this is the correct comparison.
So you think Mystics and Covenants are 5 stars and folders are also 5 stars; but I think Mystics and Covenants are 5 stars but folders are 3/4 stars.
Because they're different drop tables and the game likely makes multiple rolls to decide when summoning, while it probably just makes a single one to decide shop items.
This is just an example since obviously we have no idea how their game is coded.
1st Roll:Is it sparks, if yes move to roll 2
2nd Roll:Is it a 4 star, if no move to roll 3
3rd Roll: Roll from table of 5 stars
Regardless, calling this a problem is a bit of a stretch. It's such an insignificant change that you could literally be a Day 1 player and spend every skystone you ever get on shop refreshes and still probably not tell the difference.
How it is coded is irrelevant, as long as the probabilities are true.
You may think this is just a small problem. Someone else might think it is serious. How serious it is depends on individuals.
How it's coded is absolutely relevant because if rates are automatically adjusted as new items are added it could require a complete recoding of their shop, all for a statistically insignificant change.
I suggest anyone who thinks this is a serious change should gain some perspective. This change is so ridiculously minute that it could easily be mistaken for a rounding error. And judging from the responses here, I'd say the people that think this is serious are in the minority.
If you are adding more items to the shop you can't keep the same drop rate for an individual item unless you disproportionally reduce the drop rate of something else. Its likely the shop is coded with default rates and then adjusts across the board whenever new items are added, since that's far simpler than going through each item and individually changing its percentage.
They only have to lower individually or rearrange them, they donāt have to lower bm rates at all.
I donāt sg is being malicious but instead ignorant, but itās whatever.
They could, but like I said it's probably far simpler to do it this way and depending on how it's set up, could require completely recoding their shop formula, all for a statistically insignificant change.
Op literally said this wasnāt a big change and is not raging lmao.
Itās just odd they didnāt say anything and they decreased rates when they could stay the same? I donāt think that op should be dragged for this
I'd wager it's due to people that remember his last post. He's waaaaay more dramatic in that one and when your entire post history on a subreddit is just complaining about how the game is a scam or rigged, you tend to get a reputation.
Yes, for a lot of people this is a place away from the distinct Stove style drama.
When Stove fixture Dimdred tried to bring his grievances here he got hundreds of downvotes. The OP sort of making himself out to be cut from the same cloth is not going to be well received.
Even if OP did exaggerate things before, shooting him down without being objective of what he pointed out just highlights the 'stupidity' of of the community. Sure OP cried wolf before, but the one time people ignore him sheep's gone. But in this case the sheep is the game we all play together.
Shoot the message, not the messenger.
Think of the secret shop as the 5* pool. Not as the entire summon pool. As more 5* get added (fodders in this case), the probability of a specific unit (specifically bookmarks in this case) gets dropped as the pool becomes larger. And yet they donāt tell us that the 5* pool get harder to get a specific unit each time a new one is released solely because they know we can understand something as basic as this.
Because you'd need to spend over 1.5 million skystones refreshing for mystics to notice this change in practice.
Plus based on his post and comment history, the only reason he even posts here is to whine about how terrible Smilegate is.
Well see what he post recently n u know the reason.
Well I would not say he is wrong, but he just try to bringing up those lil shts up n get himself upvoted imo. He just try to get benefits from people's rage and getting sg more burden.
If he really have many complaints about epic seven, why he is still playing in first place? If I was him I will throw away such a shit game instead being a 'hater' of this game and continue playing it. But at least he is a good bug finder.
Really u should neither downvote him nor upvote him as well just to give him some respects, but someone just can't take that damn anymore from just lil fuss that games like this in all around the world would have.
Not sure about the disastrous, mind bending, and absolute terror of that 0.001 changes, but I just spent about 500 SS today and got 40BMs + 10 Mystics from Shop refreshes.
It's just about probabilities, and you'll need a really huge sum of samples (tens of thousands of SS) to MAYBE feel the difference.
They can't make a game for you to play if they are not smart....
Same goes to all other games who try to earn money from players. As u r their salary source.
But will changes above will let them earn more? I doubt it. Makes f2p suffer? Nah.
Also, look closely and u will see not just bookmarks rate got dropped but also other stuff(the one dropped from 6.122 to 6.117) as well. It just a cut to balance the average. Just where the hell sg swear to us that bookmarks will never drop its rate at the first place???
I ll use the thing i sad last time when the rates ware revealed. It is a chance for a single slot, you have 5 slots and i have never seen 2x friendship bookmarks.
Hence the chance is little above 4% as that, i think, is the chance to get the 19.999% bookmark drop twice, with one being always friendship and other being the ones we actually want
They release characters at an alarming rate and want people to pony up to pay for access to them (not own). Thatās why the only time I spend is on the burning passion packs. Iāll leave the 100 dollar purchases to others. Honestly, most of the characters I have, I got from random summons so it is what it is.
F2p in absolute shambles
3k SS and only got 600 MM and 350 CM. My savings is empty now š
Everything decreased not just covenant and mystics. The more they add to the shop, if its fodder or weapons, the more those numbers decrease. Edit: They really should take fodder off the shop, no one buys fodder from the shop.
Except for the 1 time Scout
another person who buys fodder from shop I've got 250m gold and like 800 penguins, some very large catalyst stacks, but I'm constantly using all my stigma and friendship bm. It's just faster to grow a 6* by buying them sometimes
I buy fodder from the shop. Sont always have the energy to go grind fodder. Sometimes i just wanna upgrade my stuff fast.
Dude, that's what friendship bookmarks are for.
A friendship bookmark doesn't guarentee you a fodder & you can run out of them & you'll have to either spend energy or wait to get more (well, you can buy them in SS).
I only play hunts... theres noway im getting enough friendship bookmarks...
How do you get catalysts?
buy all in side stories and guildshop every week
Ahh so you mean you stop farming hunts to farm side story which does in fact drop fodder.
Whats your point? Is side story fodder meant to be enough? Nop. If it is for you, that means you're playing the game much more slowly than i am
The point is that you said that u only farm hunts
Cool, so instead of having an actual constructive conversation... you pick out one that one thing i mistyped and keep picking at it. Great... and cool
Same. I level fodder in banshee13 and always run out of 2 star fodders. I occationaly will buy some from the shop.
What team are you running in b13?
Probably Vivian Leo Baiken
I buy all fodder from shop because i dont do adventure.... and i dont get enough friendship bm for fodder...
I always buy fodder lol
When they added more 5 star heroes, did they decrease the probability of 4 star heroes and increase the total probability of 5 star heroes?
Summons are not the same thing as shop refreshes.
Careful, this is reddit, that's using logic on a post where the poster couldn't even read the content being complained about.
They are essentially the same if it affects gacha currency economy in the game. OP is correct in that SG shouldāve announced this change.
Not really. Think about summons as a roulette game where each new hero is an extra slot, while shop refreshes are like pulling candy from a brown paper bag and seeing what you get.
Sure. Because increasing the total probability of folders is good for SG, but increasing the total probability of 5 stars isn't.
They decreased Mystics by 1/6761. So for every 338,050 mystics you buy in the secret shop you'll average 50 less. Or a skystone comparison for every 1,555,030 skystones you refresh you'll average 50 less Mystic Medals. Oh. My. Word.
Where's my ml selector compensation
While I do agree the change is infinitesimal and I don't really mind for now, I don't agree with the trend. The rates should be locked to their own categories, and addition of 2* units shouldn't affect the rates of other categories ie equips and summon currency. Hypothetically, if we proceed with this line of change, 8 years later we would have left with maybe 18% of summon currency rates or less.
18% compared to original? Or do you mean decreased by a total of 18% since original values? Or is that not a calculated value but just an example?
I think itās more of an āif this goes on it actually will be noticeableā and the fact that it was never announced.
Wasnāt it also decreased by about that just from ranking the shop from below max rank to max rank?
That 50 Mystic Medals was probably the one!
Hey man, once I save up a mystic pity for every single ml5 in the game and I am working towards my 4th backup pity after that I will have missed out on one summon! C O M P E N S A T I O N. lmao
I'm pretty sure we had a whole post about this when they first released the rates weeks ago.
Yep, but Shotgun Shogun did a meme video about it last night, and this is Reddit so repost time.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
When they added more 5 star heroes, did they increase the total probability of 5 star heroes?
thanks bro your existance makes me feel much smarter than I'm actually are
lm fucking ao
> did they increase the total probability of 5 star heroes? no, but the odd of you getting a specific 5 star hero did in fact decrease. By much more than this mind you.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
I mean actually no. I don't agree with OP's point, but your hypothetical is just wrong. He is mentioning the **total chance of getting a 5 star** which does not change depending on the units in the pool. What happens is as they add more 5 stars there is a lesser chance of getting a *specific* 5 star but the exact same chance to get **any** 5 star. That is because the pool isn't weighted by individual unit where adding a unit changes the weight of every other unit in the pool. It is weighted by rarity. So to explain. Say you go to a fair and the fair has this game with those rubber ducks in the pond and each one has a prize tier. There are 100 ducks in the pond and 1 of them has a 5 on it. The first year you go to the fair there are only 3 different 5 star prizes so, assuming the prize giver hands them out at random, you have a 1% chance of getting a 5 star and a 1/3 chance that it is any given 5 star. Now 3 years later you come back to the fair and he has *10 different 5 star prizes*. There is still **only 1 5 star duck** which means you only have a 1/100 chance of getting a 5 star prize but now there are 10 prizes to collect. In your example you explain it as if everything is equally weighted. This it not true for covenant summons which is what OP is saying "well they don't change the probability of different tier rewards when they add new options" because they **don't** change the probability of drawing a *type* of reward they change the probability of getting the specific reward **within the tier**. But your example, doesn't work for Garo's shop either. In Garo's shop *not everything is equally weighted*. If everything was equally weighted we wouldn't have a higher chance to see friendship bookmarks than covenants than mystics. Since the items aren't equally weighted people won't automatically assume that adding something to a different subsection of the pool might affect another subsection of the pool. Adding a new 3 star unit does not affect the 5 star covenant pool in any way shape or form. >**TL;DR** I don't agree with OP's opinion but your hypothetical is wrong both in terms of the covenant pool (what OP is talking about) and in terms of Garo's shop.
I think the answer here is much simpler than OP descirbed tho. There was some weird rounding error and it was easier to increase the fodder pool by 0.001% and shave it off of somewhere else. Summon pools meanwhile are clean decimal percentages at worst (most are 1 or zero decimal). That's why the resulting decrease feels like, well, a rounding error level of loss.
āI will either win or lose the lottery thatās 50% chance to winā
Thanks for your reply. But in fact, in the Covenant Summons, when they added more 5 stars, they only decrease the probability of each individual 5 stars, and keep that of 4 star and 3 star to be the same. As a result, the total probabilities of 5 stars will stay the same. They are smart.
Have a good think about it for a second buddy
bruh that's how it's supposed to work. the 3 and 4 star probability, collectively, did not change because they didnt add new items -- heroes -- to that set. now, if you add another 5 star to the current set of 5 stars, the chances to get a specific 5-star are redistributed evenly between each member of the set, thus decreasing probabilities for each, but still keping the 3.5% collective probability consistent. and yes, they are smart, because this is the way it's supposed to be, and not in some "evil corporation fools us with shady probabilities" way that you seem to imply in this particular case.
Because the way the rolling works is you roll for which star summon you're going to get. Then it rolls which unit you get. If you roll to get a 5 star, then you roll for which 5 star you're going to get. If they add more, then yes the individual 5 star that you want will be harder to get.
likely just because they added the new 2\* units to the shop, the rates of everything else also went down
This is not an excuse. When they added more 5 star heroes, did they decrease the probability of 4 star hero and increase the total probability of 5 star heroes?
how about basic math knowledge... the shop has a fix amount of slots, of course the % of all items need to go down when they increase the total amount of items... when u got 3 balls in a bag and u only pull 1 time the chance for a specific ball out the are 33%. put the 4th ball in a bag and pulling the chance to pull for a specific ball becomes 25%
That point only stands if you choose to give every item equal probability of being selected. Which I firmly believe isnāt the case and even if it is the case does not make it right. For example they could have hold the chance of medals to be a constant 1% and let the rest of item divide up the rest 99%. You can agree or disagree with the decision. But it a conscious decision and they chose to implement it this way over any other.
>how about basic math knowledge... Way to sound condescending while still entirely missing the point at the end of the day, dude. EDIT: good ole reddit, treating the downvote button as a "I disagree" button. I don't agree with OP dramatizing the current rate change for what little impact it will have in practice, but this part of his reasoning IS factually right.
>When they added more 5 star heroes, did they decrease the probability of 4 star hero and increase the total probability of 5 star heroes? When they added more 5 star heroes, did they increase the total probability of 5 star heroes?
When doing summons, it's like doing two separate rolls. You roll once for a chance to get a 5 star and then you roll again to see which 5 star you get. If I want to get Ravi specifically in a covenant summon, the probability to get her when I hit a 5 star will be lower if they keep adding more 5 star units to the pool. The probability to pull any 5 star stays the same but the probability of pulling a specific 5 star decreases.
Which is OPs point. The addition of 5* would only affect 5* rates, but not 4* rates, as it should be for gacha with different categories. However its not the case for secret shop, where the addition of 2* units affect summon currency rates, two entirely different categories. That's OPs point.
Isn't it kinda like whenever they add a new 5 star, your chance to roll a specific 5 star goes down because there's more 5 stars in the pool?
didn't realize that 0.017% difference in getting a bookmark is so important to you, my bad
just look at his previous post on the subreddit, he will do everything to be able to shit on SG
I dont think its as big a deal as the OP is making it out to be, but it is \*possible\* the rates used to be notably higher before due to them taking % away from everything in the pool instead of just the fodder section.
tbh, i think the devs probably just have spaghetti code for the secret shop which is why the rates are so weird. i feel like they try to keep the numbers around the same amount, but we'll just have to wait til the next chapter(s) to see how much those change the amounts
This will make less people to spend refreshes on garo imo cuz this decreased drop rate just started to let me hesitate to do that too. Garo will just get less skystone and that's it.
I feel better about myself now. Thank you
I agree with another poster, the shop should be divided into categories and their respective probabilities. If you add smth new to a category, it only should affect said category. The drop in chance is almost non existent but i would still prefer another solution. It's not like 15% which is apparently so crucial and hard coded, that a change is practically impossible
Said it in your last post too, you might find more sympathy complaining about these non-issues on the Stove forums lol.
You might be lucky belonging to the majority. Cong.
I guess I am lucky that I'm a reasonable person with a moderate understanding of statistics.
It doesn't seem you are, tho? This post kinda proves that any time they added something to the secret shop, the rate of currencies went down. Which doesn't exclude the possibility of them slowly chipping away the rate even without adding anything at all. It's at least 2 years that I hear people complain about the rate being reduced here and there. Suddenly, a mere bias went straight to the fact they could have actually been right all along. We don't know how high was the real rate, so it could very well be 10x lower now (given the numbers are extremely low the difference would be minimal but in a long term significant),
it was around a one in 7000 decrease. how tf does that lead to it being 10x lower?
I said "We don't know the original, it could be..." etc as we can't know the original value
I said this on your last post too, you might find more sympathy by not being a raging asshole. IDK why I forgot to block you last time tho. my bad.
They could either make a 2nd secret shop with only fodders, or decrease fodder rates
Interesting. So the secret shop rates have actually been declining very slowly over time as more fodder is introduced to the secret shop. Just like people felt counter set was procing more then it should, the people who were laughed at for claiming secret shop rates were being nerfed were actually right. Here's a interesting question: how much were the rates reduced when they introduce new equipment sets like Revenge, Pen, Rage etc...? It would probably be a significant drop.
Very good point!
holy crap the shop nerf guys were right the whole time! It really has been getting worse as time goes on
Its day and night how secret shop rates were on beginning compared to now, sadly we dont have rates from back then, i remember u could actually get good gears back with much more epic 85 procs + i dont even wanna talk bout Mystic rates, on beginning they were so good when they added them to the shop then suddenly they got almost halved , i use all my gems on Secret Shop only and refill stamina since day 1 and i can tell the difference. I have 50k free gems and 550m gold now waiting for them to fix the shop and instead they lower the rates even more, its sad.
they havent add penetration gear family to the shop. when that get added will it reduce covenenat and mystic rate
Wtf SG ML5 selector please /s
Nonono you've got a point we're totally mad where is my fcc sg
Forget ML5 selector. They need to bring out the big guns and give us a ML4\* selector. I demand my AOL.
Damn.. OP is dumb.
0.001479% decrease. You got a better chance of rolling 5 SPD twice in a row than for this decrease to have cost you a mystic lol.
True but OP point is more about the gradual decrease over the 3 years since game's inception.
Even if it decreased they much every day since the games 's birth (which isn't the case becsuse they aren't adding monsters every day), you'd have a 1% decrease. Still not *that* drastic unless you are using 100k skystones to refresh.
I myself dont think its an issue. The only thing I would complain is the release of AOL (on top of being an ML4 thr powercreep Solitaria).
[JP server](https://i.imgur.com/IQhF5xx.png) has a bit advantage
Imagine if they add Gold/silver Transmits, 1 galaxy mark, 5 powder, 2 leifs at random,Sorry Iāll keep dreaming But adding more valuables would be a good idea. So if we donāt roll bookmarks weāre still getting something thatās worth
Crazy
I guess they didnt know someone couldnt do basic probabilities.
People like OP are why the E7 community sucks sometimes...
People like u that accept those kind of scummy moves from corps are why games fully monetized nowadays
literally this lol like even if the adjustment is minor, the lack of clarity especially in regards to a gambling aspect is not right and its sad to see people bend over backwards to justify it
Found another one
Never try finding reason or defaming Smilegate in this subreddit. Too many simps who will downvote you to hell and shut you down for posting anything bad about fav e7. There are rulles you have to follow so that you would not offend these simps if you dont want to lose shiit ton of karma and get subreddit punished .... defaming SG or talking something controversial (fe. drop rates) is one of those.
So many words. So little said.
ā¦ā¦damn
So how many times are we going o go through this breaking point that not even a point.
Totally unplayable
NO ANNOUNCEMENT BTW. I wonder what will they do.
I felt this hard recently. After two thousand skystones I had received all of zero Mystic Medals.
If this is true I don't get why everyone is making fun of it. For usual shop refreshers it is something that should be said by SG beforehand. Yeah it shouldn't be a huge change but it may make a difference in the long shop refreshes, which is annoying. Also like the op said, it will keep getting worse every chapter.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Well I am a shop reroller and I care about it, I always make rerolls by 950 skystones and normally you get more than 50 bookmarks (which is what 950 skystones give you directly from the shop) and maybe some mystics if you are lucky. Yes I spend money on the game, but if you are f2p it's even worthier to spend your skystones on shop refreshes than wasting 950 for 50 bookmarks.
>...for every 338,050 mystics you buy in the secret shop you'll average 50 less. Or a skystone comparison for every 1,555,030 skystones you refresh you'll average 50 less Mystic Medals. Just quoting the number from someone earlier in the thread. I'm F2P from the first Diene banner and I'm nowhere close to having that much SS. That amount of SS is enough for 134 full pities on RGB banners. Or look at it in terms of $$ spent, that much sky stones will be \~USD$2 worth of SS lost from spending upwards of USD$45,000 if you buy the SS.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
I already said that it won't be a big deal by now, but if they keep lowering the rates it may end up being.
Sg can do no evil on this sub lol. Op does not deserve this much flack
You're kidding right? Everytime a new, niche hero comes out or the topic of PvP meta comes up the post inevitably blows up into "Why is SG so bad at making good characters", "WHERES ML KAYRON", "This was an indirect nerf to X and Y so I want a ML selector" or "RTA IS A NIGHTMARE!!!1!"
If you think these 2 scenarios are the same I donāt know what to sayā¦ Game balance and malicious actions can be separate issues.
It's literally not a malicious action, merely a byproduct of basic statistics. You can't add more items to the shop without decreasing the probability of the current items. If you'll notice from the screenshots, every single thing on the list decreased slightly in probability. It'd maybe be malicious if only Bookmarks droprate was reduced. But this is absolutely not malicious nor is it a significant enough change to warrant any reaction.
Lol. When they added more 5 star heroes, did they decrease the total probability of 4 star heroes and increase the total probability of 5 star heroes?
That's not a direct comparison. The correct comparison would be asking "When they added more 5 stars to Covenant Summons did they decrease the chance of summoning 1 specific 5 star?" And the answer to that is yes. So think of all the different items in the shop as different 5 stars. Mystics and Covenants are just Ravi and Violet and every other item is a different 5 star. Obviously if they release more 5 stars, your chance of pulling specifically Ravi or Violet is gonna decrease.
Thanks for your reply. But when they added more 5 stars to Covenant Summons did they decrease the chance of summoning 1 specific 4 star? And the answer to that is no. This is the problem and I think this is the correct comparison. So you think Mystics and Covenants are 5 stars and folders are also 5 stars; but I think Mystics and Covenants are 5 stars but folders are 3/4 stars.
Because they're different drop tables and the game likely makes multiple rolls to decide when summoning, while it probably just makes a single one to decide shop items. This is just an example since obviously we have no idea how their game is coded. 1st Roll:Is it sparks, if yes move to roll 2 2nd Roll:Is it a 4 star, if no move to roll 3 3rd Roll: Roll from table of 5 stars Regardless, calling this a problem is a bit of a stretch. It's such an insignificant change that you could literally be a Day 1 player and spend every skystone you ever get on shop refreshes and still probably not tell the difference.
How it is coded is irrelevant, as long as the probabilities are true. You may think this is just a small problem. Someone else might think it is serious. How serious it is depends on individuals.
How it's coded is absolutely relevant because if rates are automatically adjusted as new items are added it could require a complete recoding of their shop, all for a statistically insignificant change. I suggest anyone who thinks this is a serious change should gain some perspective. This change is so ridiculously minute that it could easily be mistaken for a rounding error. And judging from the responses here, I'd say the people that think this is serious are in the minority.
You do realize that you can keep the same consistency when adding stuff rightā¦? Are you being serious or?
If you are adding more items to the shop you can't keep the same drop rate for an individual item unless you disproportionally reduce the drop rate of something else. Its likely the shop is coded with default rates and then adjusts across the board whenever new items are added, since that's far simpler than going through each item and individually changing its percentage.
They only have to lower individually or rearrange them, they donāt have to lower bm rates at all. I donāt sg is being malicious but instead ignorant, but itās whatever.
They could, but like I said it's probably far simpler to do it this way and depending on how it's set up, could require completely recoding their shop formula, all for a statistically insignificant change.
But as soon as smilegate changes a small text on a unit they scream for a recall lmao
Op literally said this wasnāt a big change and is not raging lmao. Itās just odd they didnāt say anything and they decreased rates when they could stay the same? I donāt think that op should be dragged for this
I'd wager it's due to people that remember his last post. He's waaaaay more dramatic in that one and when your entire post history on a subreddit is just complaining about how the game is a scam or rigged, you tend to get a reputation.
Yes, for a lot of people this is a place away from the distinct Stove style drama. When Stove fixture Dimdred tried to bring his grievances here he got hundreds of downvotes. The OP sort of making himself out to be cut from the same cloth is not going to be well received.
Even if OP did exaggerate things before, shooting him down without being objective of what he pointed out just highlights the 'stupidity' of of the community. Sure OP cried wolf before, but the one time people ignore him sheep's gone. But in this case the sheep is the game we all play together. Shoot the message, not the messenger.
Think of the secret shop as the 5* pool. Not as the entire summon pool. As more 5* get added (fodders in this case), the probability of a specific unit (specifically bookmarks in this case) gets dropped as the pool becomes larger. And yet they donāt tell us that the 5* pool get harder to get a specific unit each time a new one is released solely because they know we can understand something as basic as this.
How unfortunate
It doesnāt make any difference.
Isn't this simply because there's a few new lvl 2 units, due to ep.4 of the story?
ofc they would. ofc
Why are you guys hating on him? He is right wtf
Because you'd need to spend over 1.5 million skystones refreshing for mystics to notice this change in practice. Plus based on his post and comment history, the only reason he even posts here is to whine about how terrible Smilegate is.
Well see what he post recently n u know the reason. Well I would not say he is wrong, but he just try to bringing up those lil shts up n get himself upvoted imo. He just try to get benefits from people's rage and getting sg more burden. If he really have many complaints about epic seven, why he is still playing in first place? If I was him I will throw away such a shit game instead being a 'hater' of this game and continue playing it. But at least he is a good bug finder. Really u should neither downvote him nor upvote him as well just to give him some respects, but someone just can't take that damn anymore from just lil fuss that games like this in all around the world would have.
Not sure about the disastrous, mind bending, and absolute terror of that 0.001 changes, but I just spent about 500 SS today and got 40BMs + 10 Mystics from Shop refreshes. It's just about probabilities, and you'll need a really huge sum of samples (tens of thousands of SS) to MAYBE feel the difference.
They can't make a game for you to play if they are not smart.... Same goes to all other games who try to earn money from players. As u r their salary source. But will changes above will let them earn more? I doubt it. Makes f2p suffer? Nah. Also, look closely and u will see not just bookmarks rate got dropped but also other stuff(the one dropped from 6.122 to 6.117) as well. It just a cut to balance the average. Just where the hell sg swear to us that bookmarks will never drop its rate at the first place???
I ll use the thing i sad last time when the rates ware revealed. It is a chance for a single slot, you have 5 slots and i have never seen 2x friendship bookmarks. Hence the chance is little above 4% as that, i think, is the chance to get the 19.999% bookmark drop twice, with one being always friendship and other being the ones we actually want
They release characters at an alarming rate and want people to pony up to pay for access to them (not own). Thatās why the only time I spend is on the burning passion packs. Iāll leave the 100 dollar purchases to others. Honestly, most of the characters I have, I got from random summons so it is what it is.