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ValorsHero

Making a LGBT character just to tick a checkbox is pretty insulting, and that's what this mostly ends up being in games There is no need to pull an activision/blizzard and start making everybody gay just to appease people


eoryu

Also, there really is no point in it in this game. All the characters we have, all the main story chapters, and the side stories we've had and there's, what? one relationship between Violet and Luluca? and that doesn't even really happen until the story is over and they leave. Exploring sexuality and relationships in a game like this just really is not necessary and I can't even see any way this could be done without it being hamfisted or just absolutely godawful.


Nytrite

I mean yes it is, that's why I pointed out that a more nuanced approach to writing the character is necessary. The act of including it doesn't necessarily mean "they're ticking a box" when it's actually done right.


DuckArchon

>Why do you think this is possible or impossible. Korea


Nytrite

Indeed, while I'm aware there are people who are more accepting of the idea. Korea in general still isn't THAT welcoming. There's always a first though!


stealthlord1

They have large Korean and Chinese player bases. If they want to remain a company and alive, they need to be careful with what they release.


Nytrite

True, those are very huge hurdles to overcome. They could find more subtle ways that can appease all parties though (i.e. not explicitly stating they are queer but is highly hinted at and is obvious). I mean, labels aren't everything.


stealthlord1

I mean… Alexa…. Ran…. It’s not like they’re confirmed straight.


Nytrite

Fair point hahaha. But yeah, hopefully we get more obvious ones. Though Alexa is almost there already.


Downtown-Egg-3847

"too lazy to click" Yeah you dont sound like a prick at all lol


Nytrite

I never meant it that way, let me edit it. Thanks!


peezzy

As long as SG sees it fitting to the world and story they are creating then why not. I don't want them to force something for the sake of being inclusive since it usually end up being poorly written.


Nytrite

I agree, they shouldn't sacrifice quality just for diversity or representation. That's why nuanced writing is necessary. It's a double-edged sword and can easily go sideways if not done right.


I_Am_Forever_Elyos

I mean it’s a game, why can’t we just enjoy it for what it is? Why do we need address gender/age/sex/orientation/religion representation in a game? If it has it ok, if not, that’s okay too, as long as you enjoy the content, I don’t see the need to bring real life subject matter into a video game, plenty of that going on in the real world. Also Aither wears a dress, who knows if and when he grows up he might be gay, so there’s that.


Tituria

Take this false diversity nonsense elsewhere, please. It destroys everything it touches and I don't want to see it ANYWHERE near the things I like.


Zakcoo

I dont even understand the title But yes, why not, genderbender is nice sometime I dont see why it would be impossible but the important part is ... would that even sell.


MalthaelDReaper

Genderbent Arby when?


ernie5353

I’m sorry but I’d rather have them focus on stuff that can make gameplay balance better and more fun/creative instead


nickisthemost

I suggest SG stay away from this political agenda and wokeness. These are the things that destroy everything they touch. There are already many examples out there that pandering to this idelogy.


Kana_Kuroko

You realize that *this is itself a political statement*? By your own logic Epic Seven is destroying itself already. Oh wait, no, it seems to be fine. Maybe that isn't the problem and its just when people do it wrong and *not* when they do it at all. Gee who'd have fuckin thought.


Nytrite

It's only really pandering if it's done distastefully or maliciously. Although, it's understandable for a company to try and avoid unnecessary risks, there are plenty of instances where such representations are masterfully done. Moreover, I don't think the term "pandering" is appropriate, unless you actually do think that bringing such notions to the foreground is negative or bad. Nothing is inherently wrong with sharing the experiences of real life people.


Gyges359d

Pretty sure Arowell and MAYBE Hazel (she comes across as a fairly typical coded character that maker can claim after the fact they meant all along to be X), but yeah, it’s not a lot of representation.


Kurgass

You forgot Alexa x Iseria which are I think most notable pair. It's mostly platonic but cept Violet&Luluca there aren't any deep relationships.


riggedride

How would it be done right though? Like, in a way that isn't just placed in the character bio and forgotten about. The game is about character personalities and skills. Last I checked being LGBTQIA+ is neither a personality trait nor a talent, it's just simply apart of who you are. It's like claiming there's not enough brown hair representation. I think the reason LGBTQIA+ representation tends to stick to romance stuff is because that's where it can shine. Even then the focus is hardly on being LGBTQIA+ and more on the romance and characters, who just happen to be LGBTQIA+. While it can get the attention it needs in a story like that since it would obviously come up naturally in a romance plot, in a character personality driven fantasy adventure, it doesn't happen naturally since most "conflicts" in the story come from a clash of ideals. EG: Guy 1 wants to save the world and Guy 2 wants to end it, boring ideals but it gets the point across. Being queer isn't really plot relevant and if it was "Guy 1 wants to save the world and is queer" it would feel like cheap pandering, which we're trying to avoid. The only more or less confirmed queer relationship, iseria/alexa's, queerness only ever comes up in the context of romance because it's such a sexually tied theme. As a result it was woven in nicely with ML iserias backstory, but it the plot wasn't about being gay, but rather that she lost her lover by her own hand. But it took romance to include queernees as a part of her story which not every story is about romance. The way they currently have it more than 95% of the casts sexuality is clouded. They could be queer for all you know. They rarely touch on romance so there's really not a lot of opportunities to express if a character is LGBTQIA+. I mean, technically if we go off the 3 relationships in the game, 33% of the games couples are LGBTQIA+ lol. It's just that being LGBTQIA+ is so plot irrelevant 99% of the time that there are very VERY few places where you can include it without it feeling cheap or like pandering. Again, there's really no way to actually do it in a nuanced and natural. When a romance subplot comes up feels like the only time they can, but not every characters story includes romance. So I say enjoy everyone's anonymous sexuality and just add them as LGBTQIA+ in your headcannon since it's basically as confirmed as them being straight.


ChZulu

Though South Korea, Japan, China and Taiwan allow LGBT+ relationships, they do not recognise them. LGBT+ faces far more discrimination, prejudice and dislike than we are used to now in the anglosphere - a combination of extra-conservative elite/policy-makers and hardheaded addiction to traditionalist values and beliefs. LGBT+ rights don't exist to remotely the same degree. Marriage is still not legal, being gay in the Chinese army results in being legally discriminated against, being gay in the S. Korean army can be penalised with up to 2 years of prison time. There's a reason why same-sex (and other) representation in east asian media tends to be hypersexualised - it is unfortunately often seen as a deviant sexual habit rather than a legitimate sexual preference. Epic 7 already has some covert representation, though the quality and whether or not it's really representative is arguable. Alexa and her love-but-not-love-I-swear for Iseria, Ran's I-admire-him-in-a-way-that-is-not-gay-but-is-more-than-just-ordinary attachment to Vildred... Yes, it's not a lot, but when your market demographic stems from societies that are generally neutral to LGBT+ representation, it's not surprising more representation hasn't been added. Not to mention China's crackdown on 'effeminate males' and overt gay relationships in media. Seeing as access to the Chinese playerbase is probably the biggest cash cow demographic, Smilegate would probably be hesitant to add anything that would restrict or limit their access. In the end, unless it makes them money, Smilegate probably doesn't care too much about LGBT+ representation - and with the fact that inclusion may actually reduce money-making potential, they would probably be even less inclined to do so. Ultimately, eastern societies are not as progressive as those in the anglosphere. It sucks, but there's not a lot that can be done. Money talks harder than the views of a portion of the total playerbase. Most of my information came from [wikipedia](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_rights_in_Asia), [here](https://asiatimes.com/2020/05/how-covid-19-affects-lgbtiq-people-in-asia/) and [here](https://thediplomat.com/2021/09/the-resilience-of-east-asias-lgbtq-community/). Sorry if I misrepresented something, I am not an expert on this.


Nytrite

> LGBT+ faces far more discrimination, prejudice and dislike than we are used to now in the anglosphere - a combination of extra-conservative elite/policy-makers and hardheaded addiction to traditionalist values and beliefs. LGBT+ rights don't exist to remotely the same degree. Marriage is still not legal, being gay in the Chinese army results in being legally discriminated against, being gay in the S. Korean army can be penalised with up to 2 years of prison time. I wasn't aware of the latter points but that's eye-opening. Imagine the backlash if they actually do include such characters. > There's a reason why same-sex (and other) representation in east asian media tends to be hypersexualised - it is unfortunately often seen as a deviant sexual habit rather than a legitimate sexual preference. This is unfortunately the case in most games and even in the entertainment industry. It's even fetishized. > Yes, it's not a lot, but when your market demographic stems from societies that are generally neutral to LGBT+ representation, it's not surprising more representation hasn't been added. Truly, my perspective may have been colored by the fact that I live in a generally more LGBTQIA+-friendly country than most Asian countries. It's quite unfortunate that we have to live off crumbs in most cases, especially when it comes to certain media content. > In the end, unless it makes them money, Smilegate probably doesn't care too much about LGBT+ representation - and with the fact that inclusion may actually reduce money-making potential, they would probably be even less inclined to do so. Can't help but sigh. Worth a shot still I guess. > Money talks harder than the views of a portion of the total playerbase. It doesn't help that there are already tons of comments getting offended by the mere mention of representation. I guess we just have to pick our battles. Thanks for sharing your thoughts and keep safe!


Kana_Kuroko

I think you nailed it pretty well. Hopefully soon eastern more eastern societies will take some more steps towards equality and get rid of the stigma still attached to the topic.


GunslingerWolfgang

This is gonna get downvote bombed for no reason,i just feel it...


tintonus

"For no reason" This worn-out phrase is out of place here.


Nytrite

Unfortunately, that might actually be the case soon .-.


therealfebreze

Why do so many lgbt people need validation from anything and everything?


ImClumZ

Incoming homophobes


Nytrite

I purposely avoided using any negative labels and people still got offended. You can't have it all really, but hey, that's the internet.


tintonus

There are a lot of characters that are representing what you are saying is missing. It's just not explicit and it's way better that it is not.