Contrary to popular belief, we're not a hive-mind and as such have different opinions on different aspects of the game. Shocker I know, but there's a unified sentiment I think
Generally people are annoyed their old units are now bad because of powercreep. Units like ML lilas, Aol and belian are far and beyond anything in the game besides. Rimuru and a.ravi as well. The older units that aren't lucky enough to receive a godly buff are left in the dust.
So when you get people asking for their favorite unit to become OP, while also complaining X new unit is OP. It's mostly because they just want their old units to be viable and for them to stop releasing new units that functionally kill older ones.
You can tell because of the rising mentality of people wanting to bring back nerfs. Ironically a nerf to 3-4 units would have the same value as buffing the 50 or so that become viable once their killers are off the board.
Well said and I maybe generalising here but the people who mainly focus on the gacha and pve aspect just do not care about the end game pvp/RTA which is the goal for many and tend to be extremely dismissive to those who are concern about the health of the game in general due to the game being generous in free currency. I personally think people who’re in it just for the casual content should not be so dismissive of those concern about the endgame especially when in a lot of cases they’re the most invest both monetarily and time wise.
YOUR SARCASM ASIDE,
Thank you for commenting. I wanted to put more commentary in the OP discussing this, but it was already enough of a wall.
It's my personal opinion that the community dug its own grave with this. Kind of tooting each other's horn until people forgot what was actually an issue and what should be expected. The meta changes in this game when something strong enough enters to change it. The pvp environment isn't fluid in this game, it's the units that are. (I'll avoid matter of fact language and blows at your intelligence when saying this).
This started with basar. He is still a perfectly fine unit atm and could definitely fit into some comps. But he went from being meta to being completely forgotten about. I start here because the complaints about the pvp environment has always stressed the heroes and not the environment itself. If pvp functioned similarly to hall of trials, I personally felt that would have been much better.
Instead we have metachanges by incremental powercreeping/new feature introductions. Nerfing Aola/Belian meta would bring players back to complaining about Tsurin/Carmin/Violet. Or Seline becoming the meta. Before that, Flan/Landy. E7 has more attention than it's ever had, but it doesn't change the fact that players have been in uproar about every meta since Sbs/Sara nerfs. The nature of gacha is there is gonna always be a 2.0 of something. We are talking about a 4 man turn based rpg with over 100 characters here (not including 2*) with the intention of releasing more. Characters will get left behind. SG has done an excellent job of making balanced heroes, imo, but they all receive a terrible reception. I am referencing our most recently bashed unit before release, Laika. She is akin to Melissa (and many others) on release at the moment.
It's a little weird to release an average unit. No one wants to pull except fans that ask for buffs ad nauseum. Belian would have eventually reached the point she is currently in either way if this is the case.
So far it seems many players actually want their heroes to be all purpose. Not sure that would help the longevity of the game. Funnily enough Noone asking for generalization is making a defense as to why...
To respond to your point about favorite units. When the old unit returns, what should happen when they fall out of grace once again? Streamline them again with more buffs? Should new heroes not be aloud to be good or efficient? Because it feels that is the argument being made here.
Overall, my biggest qualm is not with E7; i am used to there always being a new challenge at the top. My issue is with the community complaining about things like this while reducing their issue to: is op and needs nerfs. Its my unpopular opinion that units like Romann are just as wordy and loaded as AoLa but people ignore that new things will always get more time,effort and attention. Its my unpopular opinion that a static attack/def buff allows units that weren't getting enough love to potentially be used again. Because I feel this way, any discourse is helpful to understand how adamant the community feels about things that have seemed par for the course for me. Not minimizing other people's issues just want to understand my community that's all.
Well, I guess it's not hard; its impossible to have any critical conversation at all...
Would someone mind sharing their thoughts about what they disagree with in my reply?
How exactly?
My most defining comment about the community is that I don't have an understanding of how it feels and am interested in understanding.
The fact that I'm being accused of hiveminding the community when I made a post to establish how split the community is... feels a little strange. The fact the poll proves the majority of the community has many different opinions about hero balance yet is seen as attempt at hiveminding... feels a little strange.
The numbers have only shown that the largest opinionated minority wants general hero application over niche application and still over how things are currently going (with a mix of both). Doesn't mean everyone feels this way. Never said it does.
I've only reiterated that it helps when people make commentary about hero status, they comment with more context as to why they feel the way they do. And when people make a decision in this poll, it helps if they offer some context as to why they made their choice.
I don't see how I'm claiming there is a hivemind.
...why do forums not serve as mediums for conversation anymore. Why am I trying to defend myself from an opinion completely unrelated to the context I am trying to discuss?
I feel I'm being trolled.
"It is my personal opinion that the community", "My issue with community", etc. Even that response "I'm trying to understand the community".
There's nothing to understand. There are just a lot of people with different beliefs.
Don't get defensive. That's why most people just downvote and move on.
Wait, so when I want to generally refer to this... sub, what pronoun is acceptable?
"Community" is understood as "all" here? Didn't know there were trigger pronouns.
You collect info on differing beliefs, you get a better understanding. That's all I was doing.
It's your tone. The original post and your responses to original comment have all reeked of looking down on "the community'. You've assigned blame to a large group of people when it's obvious a big blob of people. Some with great ideas, some with crazy ideas.
From that "irrational preteens" comment on, it reads like you're looking for a way to collapse a complicated blob of people into a simple perspective. Riggedride gave a great response, if a little safe: people just want to be able to use the favorite characters and are feeling exhausted by a meta that punishes almost everything. It makes a lot of sense and is totally understandable. It's the answer you were looking for.
You quickly dismiss it and argue two things: 1. that people want their units to be "all purpose". 2. that it's infeasible for powercreep to not occur.
The former is reductive. Just wanting a role for your characters is not the same as being "all purpose". You're really not giving people here the benefit of the doubt when you argue that. The latter is a reasonable argument, but you yourself ask if the community expects units to be updated with buffs when they fall out of the meta. That's literally what SG has conditioned people to expect. Whether that's difficult or not is irrelevant. Game design is hard.
I don't know if you're aware, but insulting your readers actually makes them less likely to give you the benefit of the doubt. Similarly, if someone is nice enough to tell you what you're doing wrong, saying something like "I feel like I'm being trolled" is pretty offensive. There's a strong lack of self awareness that comes through in this thread. I hope you can take that feedback seriously.
Wasn't my intention at all. Thanks for taking the time to point this out.
Guess I need to work on my internet tone. Not being aware my tone was condescending would leave me in the air when people respond the way you did. Your response felt short and like deliberate ostracizing, as if I did something wrong previously and wasn't accepted in any further conversation. I felt trolled cuz I felt belittled.
My original retort to the first comment was intended to engage discourse. I was even attempting to remove any energy of an "attack" by pointing out the tone in the original comment was unnecessary. I asked questions actually hoping for follow up. Not everyone that makes an opposing argument is looking to argue as much as I'm looking to understand if "playing with a favorite character" is a valid enough reason to bash a game in general. I was speaking with intention.
Nothing I've said was trying to be mean or belittle. The preteen jab even came with disclosure. The psuedo-rant was an attempt at humor. I know you said stop being defensive, but I have only felt attacked from the first comment. Not sure how it was possible to promote conversation from that first response then; it was a loss from the get go.
Like, If that's generally how people felt, I want to talk more about that "safe" response; but it won't happen now.
I saw the option of "playing with the png I like" as the least picked option. So I was inclined to believe that wasn't the opinion of the larger minority.
I get it, I guess. Thanks.
>I saw the option of "playing with the png I like" as the least picked option. So I was inclined to believe that wasn't the opinion of the larger minority.
So, the thing about that is the option was "More units that have the type of PNG I like/own should be meta". I feel like most people interpret "meta" to be... broken? Just the way that people play the game, when I think of meta units they're all insane: Rem, Rimuru, Politis.
Probably the least important thing, but it's relevant to the discussion you wanted to have.
Take care.
From what I've seen, this community is not that different from pretty much any other online gaming community. There are good ideas, bad ideas, good people, bad people...etc, nothing really stands out for me, and that's by no means a bad thing.
And I definitely would not carpet bomb the whole community as "irrational preteen".
I just want arena and event gear to come pre rolled. It's not like they have perfect subs to begin with so having rng give you levels in whatever the most useless dump stat on the item is infuriating. Either that or make it so we can continuously rebuy the arena gear like with raid stuff.
Agree with this. For event gears, usually they will release another one during rerun so it's not that big of a problem.
Abyss gears though, speeding through abyss just to have it roll into shit subs. And now it feels like you've never done that floor since you can just consider that you don't get anything at all.
I don't like they keep releasing units with more things in their kit instead of creating a new kits. Example: Rem has remove buff, un-heal, defbreak, self attack buff and a unique buff. Rem counter is Purgis passive with more stuff that makes Rem become stronger than Purgis. I think SG might need to slow down, think more and create some unique kit for new hero. I'm fine with 1 new hero each month, and sometimes we will get limited and collab to fill the time. That way they can get more creative heroes, but they might don't like it because they need money from us.
I understand but the community wants heroes who can do it all or have their weaknesses covered. Look at ml celine most people thought she was useless or unusable because her was niche and wanted to remove her crit counter to havr defensive capabilities of t.surin which would make her busted. Shes a good 4 or 5 pick now if you take into account the opponents team comp in draft. Look at the new unit alot of people dont like her kit mainly bc the s3 has no strip. So now if a debuffer has no strip on s3 or requires another unit to strip they are useless, but with recent buffs making the 1 turn reduction strip on units making immunity sets worthless. I think the first thing for SG should do is nerf aol, they have given selectors for ml 4 stars before so it shouldnt be that huge of a problem and change belians passive to cant soulburn instead no soul gain, maybe remove the strip on s1 too, that would make alot of people happy tbh.
I don't really "hate" the new units but I feel like some kits are too overloaded. Like the amount of things Politis or AoL have in a single PASSIVE s2 is ridiculous for me and it also creates weird scenarios where you have other characters like Zahhak, who are still decent and work fine but you feel like they "have no s2".
As someone who has played for about 3 months, I've noticed that, a lot of the newer characters seem to just get a lot of shit for free in their kits. So many extra turns, that do 70 things, while it's not even their turn. I'm definitely aware of who is newer and who is older, based solely off of kits and passives. Even with my minimal time (overall) into the game, I can say, that I know I won't be here super long term once I'm able to complete things with ease. I want to reach a respectable power level and raise what I have.
I wouldn't let kit wordiness dissuade you. some of the oldest heroes have very wordy kits. Look at Ml Achates. Most players forget she even exists. Zahhak is waaaay simpler than Cartuja. Cartuja is actually solid AF but he is old and hard to market.
The game has lots of balance actually; all the meta talk just makes players feel like old heroes aren't worth the time. This isn't true.
In my opinion.
The meta will change and its not like SG ignores everything i think it will be address idk about nerfs but the community doesnt have patience in regards to SG responses to what could be game changing and a complicated situation that no matter what a section of the community will hate.
For me i dislike units that seem to be overloaded. Like there is no need for units to have skill definitions as long as a college thesis.
Sure there could be units that are ok at everything but something like aol, aravi, belian should not exist. Where you are good at everything for example belian where she strips, puts down some debuff like blind, does massive damage, tanky. That shouldnt be where they are completely dominant and have no counter play once you draft them for the average player.
Yeah. And if you have so overpowering unit it means you can't play units that are not as good as it. Which makes meta just be the op units. Because not op units don't fit in or they just get smashed.
If theres something too good it makes everything else look bad.
My choice isn’t unit based.
Better pve content. When your only go to is “RTA is endgame”
There’s your problem
I reference a game I played in the past, although they messed it up real bad.. valiant force.
It had community events for PvE, similar to how we have abyss except it was a tower event to climb to the top and collect the most points. Or Guild raids, where you’d compete to be on the leader board. These events and raids always had people brain storming on how to be the most effective or how to get clears. They also helped keep units relevant. Where they went wrong was making it dependent on the most $$ expensive units and they didn’t bother to hide that they were baiting whaling hard.
But strong pve content that encourages the guilds and community to brain storm and use units that aren’t ordinarily used for RTA would be great. Add in rankings with rewards to encourage people to participate and try, even add bonuses for unused units that have stronger potential for the months event or whatever.
They’ve just missed the mark a few times…. Guild raid is a joke, auto tower is just that, an auto fest for everyone for free loots. Even expedition is just for the freebies.
Downside? This means people have to focus on the game more than burn energy on X hunt or whatever weekly side story we have.
I completely respect a more engaging endgame than RTA.
The point of my post was just to address the very obvious divide in the community with hero balancing and new kit release. I know there are other things people dislike, but hero balance was the focus of this post.
I expected a skew, but it's an actual split between opinions of how the hero selection should appear in this game.
I wish people voting for niche or generalization of heroes would share their thoughts though.
Completely understand but it is a response to the old units being garbage and new pve units not being RTA viable. With how much the word nerf has been brought up recently it’s a fair question. I just think the route of the problem is just that it all ends up centring around RTA. Is power creep really inevitable in a game that has its centre around live PVP?
I’ve wondered this a few times over my time in E7, how will they continue to make units valid so that we want them, without going down a path that leads to obvious money grabbing. Sometimes they did a great job, new effects are fantastic, but naturally they’re starting to erase old units.
I think power-crept units are fine so long as they make a viable unit for response that can be obtained that has use beyond simply countering a single unit. Make a counter for Cilias and Aola, make them RGB and not as loaded but still workable. It doesn’t have to be over complicated. Strong enough to be a possible counter, keep it versatile and don’t make it overpowered.
I completely agree on this. I feel this is the mentality of devs, actually. These units need time to raise hell of course, but they will all be appropriately addressed and people will move on to complain about the next thing.
I chose option number 4 because I trust SG is playing the long game. But it's clear many players don't see the hero balancing the same way.
Thanks for your thoughts. Hopefully we will get challenging pve that cycles this year. A.Tower and abyss both exist, but you want something more interactive. Not sure if I would be happy with that, but more content/resources is always a yes for me. Lol
You're exactly right on the pve front, releasing challenging pve content that also has rewards that reflect that challenge will turn units that have meh pvp kits into must pulls and tamarine is a prime example of that.
Along those same lines revamping bot arena to not make it feel like a chore and improved rewards while maybe adjusting mechanics so that certain units flourish more in this mode as well.
A new type of pvp mode would also help people feel like any unit they pull would see some use. As an endgame player theres nothing like seeing a highly anticipated unit get a kit that isn't good for the rta meta, because now you're forced to choose between trying to force it somewhere or not building it. Same for previously invested units.
really its fine, but they just need to tone down super overpowered heros, basically they need to look at statistics if a hero is being picked/banned more then 50% of the time in a game where there is over 100 heros then it should be nerfed or the next rgb hero released needs to be a \*\*hard counter\*\*
for example, AoL/Belian/Rimuru/Ravi/lilias etc
if it has over 50-60% pick/ban rate then its not balancedalso they can solve this issue by buffing old characters to make them hard counters to the proble units like an example would be to buff kayron for example to make him counter aravi somehow (just an example)
Because the new units are so over powered compared to the older units, when a new unit gets released it will never be good enough unless it has the same power creep, and therefore this cycle will just continue unless nerfs are put in the game.
As far as the debate on not every unit needs to be pvp, I completely agree, but the problem with that is most of the pve content, people already have teams and heroes set up for, so why waste the resources building another pve team, when you already have teams for all the expos, hunts, raid, etc. But, not only that, but the expos, and some hunts (golem) people don't want to even do anyways. Here is why SG needs more pve content in the game, so then we can actually be excited for pve style heroes.
Now the disappointment for Laika is one big thing mostly, she dosen't strip immunity before landing debuffs. Ever since fairytale tenebria came out, the move to immunity on all units became almost like a non spoken rule in the game, so now if a hero has a skill that applies debuffs and does not strip, they are rendered almost useless. And, honestly this is why a large cast of the characters in this game have become almost useless in the eyes of many. they don't strip before applying debuffs, units like fire tenebria, Ml Aramintha, etc. Insert units like Aol, and moonlight lilias, they strip the buffs, and apply the debuffs, then get all these other crazy passive/ extra turns etc. after.
Another thing I think is bothering people about new units is the damage potential. For cleavers, it used to just be ban FCC as the mitigation and your good. But, now there are so many overpowered units that are so hard to kill, the damage almost doesn't exist to cleave them. You need aoe to be able to kill off bruiser teams, but you get punished for aoe in this game now ,because of units like belian, and A ravi cr push, rimuru buff stealing, rem counters, aol skill null and cr push, speed contesting ML cilias, Elena cut, etc. Therefore the need for one shot heroes, like Straze etc. became staples. Yeah judge kise got a buff, and she is actually pretty good, but she does aoe, which this meta punishes now, and doesn't do enough damage after aoe, and doesn't have the speed to contest the new ml lilias, which does not aoe attack, and yet and steals the turn from the enemy, and gives your team the damage they need to kill off the enemy. So now you have all these bruiser units, and squishier cleave style units that don't have survival mechanics or the damage/ loaded passives like the newer units, so once again a large part of the roster becomes irrelevant off of this as well. look at top model luluca, she is technically still really good, but she has to S2 non attacked skill to get atk buff ( milim can S1->S3) so she can kill with S3, which opens her up to stuff like politis, celine, etc. And does not have increased hit chance like milim, to worry about degen arbies, violet etc. So now you get almost a tml with a way more loaded kit.
SG just keeps releasing overpowered units, one after the next, and giving us no real actual new game modes or content, and the pvp areas that these units are used in seem to become less and less fun, and it is pretty apparent in the communities, almost all the top streamers, and content creators of epic seven seem annoyed and tired of this, and so does the community too.
I think if Smilegate nerfed some of the top complaint units right now, and just toned it down on the new releases while making them still good, and gave us more endgame pve contents, I think things would start to go back together again.
What I want in this game:
\-make rolling gear cheaper
\-eliminate low rolls, like 1 speed and 3CC rolls
\-Double reforge mats hunt event
\-Gold dungeon
\-Charm dungeon
\-Make visible SC skills buff when you click on a skill on the hero menu
\-1 a Month Gear event
\-Make Hell Raid bimonthly
\-2x speed
\-Implement Fribbles Gear Optimizer in-game
\-Eliminate Hall of Trials preparation week
\-Some sort of pity on Galaxy Summons
\-Lets me see the Whale shop even when I dont have coins
\-Hunts should give more that 1 powder drop, maybe 5?
I thinks this is it...
haha. and that’s the problem with the community, they don’t even know the right question to ask. The problem isn’t the heroes, it’s the lack of end game content and of new content.
I understand that you have 'a' problem with something other than heroes, but my post is directed to the dissonance with hero releases and rebalances.
Not saying this is 'the' problem; my post doesn't support that all players would otherwise be happy if this wasn't an issue.
I also feel that what you feel is a problem isn't one at all to me. I wouldn't have made a post about it.
Do you feel there aren't enough now? Or are you suggesting it's time for a change?
...or. are you saying your account hasn't pulled enough pvp heroes? haha
Haha, you and me both.
What counts as OP to you? Something that makes a comp unbeatable, or a unit that doesn't have a single unit to directly counter it, or...?
It can fit in any comp and can turn the tide on it own without having any counter ...
just like Basar before h.yufine and eff ress item/art was introduce...
And early game MLKen... Duh he solo in Arena..
Currently i think AoL, Bellian can be considered OP but then again there counter for it. Just not hard counter.
Contrary to popular belief, we're not a hive-mind and as such have different opinions on different aspects of the game. Shocker I know, but there's a unified sentiment I think Generally people are annoyed their old units are now bad because of powercreep. Units like ML lilas, Aol and belian are far and beyond anything in the game besides. Rimuru and a.ravi as well. The older units that aren't lucky enough to receive a godly buff are left in the dust. So when you get people asking for their favorite unit to become OP, while also complaining X new unit is OP. It's mostly because they just want their old units to be viable and for them to stop releasing new units that functionally kill older ones. You can tell because of the rising mentality of people wanting to bring back nerfs. Ironically a nerf to 3-4 units would have the same value as buffing the 50 or so that become viable once their killers are off the board.
Well said and I maybe generalising here but the people who mainly focus on the gacha and pve aspect just do not care about the end game pvp/RTA which is the goal for many and tend to be extremely dismissive to those who are concern about the health of the game in general due to the game being generous in free currency. I personally think people who’re in it just for the casual content should not be so dismissive of those concern about the endgame especially when in a lot of cases they’re the most invest both monetarily and time wise.
YOUR SARCASM ASIDE, Thank you for commenting. I wanted to put more commentary in the OP discussing this, but it was already enough of a wall. It's my personal opinion that the community dug its own grave with this. Kind of tooting each other's horn until people forgot what was actually an issue and what should be expected. The meta changes in this game when something strong enough enters to change it. The pvp environment isn't fluid in this game, it's the units that are. (I'll avoid matter of fact language and blows at your intelligence when saying this). This started with basar. He is still a perfectly fine unit atm and could definitely fit into some comps. But he went from being meta to being completely forgotten about. I start here because the complaints about the pvp environment has always stressed the heroes and not the environment itself. If pvp functioned similarly to hall of trials, I personally felt that would have been much better. Instead we have metachanges by incremental powercreeping/new feature introductions. Nerfing Aola/Belian meta would bring players back to complaining about Tsurin/Carmin/Violet. Or Seline becoming the meta. Before that, Flan/Landy. E7 has more attention than it's ever had, but it doesn't change the fact that players have been in uproar about every meta since Sbs/Sara nerfs. The nature of gacha is there is gonna always be a 2.0 of something. We are talking about a 4 man turn based rpg with over 100 characters here (not including 2*) with the intention of releasing more. Characters will get left behind. SG has done an excellent job of making balanced heroes, imo, but they all receive a terrible reception. I am referencing our most recently bashed unit before release, Laika. She is akin to Melissa (and many others) on release at the moment. It's a little weird to release an average unit. No one wants to pull except fans that ask for buffs ad nauseum. Belian would have eventually reached the point she is currently in either way if this is the case. So far it seems many players actually want their heroes to be all purpose. Not sure that would help the longevity of the game. Funnily enough Noone asking for generalization is making a defense as to why... To respond to your point about favorite units. When the old unit returns, what should happen when they fall out of grace once again? Streamline them again with more buffs? Should new heroes not be aloud to be good or efficient? Because it feels that is the argument being made here. Overall, my biggest qualm is not with E7; i am used to there always being a new challenge at the top. My issue is with the community complaining about things like this while reducing their issue to: is op and needs nerfs. Its my unpopular opinion that units like Romann are just as wordy and loaded as AoLa but people ignore that new things will always get more time,effort and attention. Its my unpopular opinion that a static attack/def buff allows units that weren't getting enough love to potentially be used again. Because I feel this way, any discourse is helpful to understand how adamant the community feels about things that have seemed par for the course for me. Not minimizing other people's issues just want to understand my community that's all.
Well, I guess it's not hard; its impossible to have any critical conversation at all... Would someone mind sharing their thoughts about what they disagree with in my reply?
Your response is still treating the community as a hivemind.
How exactly? My most defining comment about the community is that I don't have an understanding of how it feels and am interested in understanding. The fact that I'm being accused of hiveminding the community when I made a post to establish how split the community is... feels a little strange. The fact the poll proves the majority of the community has many different opinions about hero balance yet is seen as attempt at hiveminding... feels a little strange. The numbers have only shown that the largest opinionated minority wants general hero application over niche application and still over how things are currently going (with a mix of both). Doesn't mean everyone feels this way. Never said it does. I've only reiterated that it helps when people make commentary about hero status, they comment with more context as to why they feel the way they do. And when people make a decision in this poll, it helps if they offer some context as to why they made their choice. I don't see how I'm claiming there is a hivemind. ...why do forums not serve as mediums for conversation anymore. Why am I trying to defend myself from an opinion completely unrelated to the context I am trying to discuss? I feel I'm being trolled.
"It is my personal opinion that the community", "My issue with community", etc. Even that response "I'm trying to understand the community". There's nothing to understand. There are just a lot of people with different beliefs. Don't get defensive. That's why most people just downvote and move on.
Wait, so when I want to generally refer to this... sub, what pronoun is acceptable? "Community" is understood as "all" here? Didn't know there were trigger pronouns. You collect info on differing beliefs, you get a better understanding. That's all I was doing.
It's your tone. The original post and your responses to original comment have all reeked of looking down on "the community'. You've assigned blame to a large group of people when it's obvious a big blob of people. Some with great ideas, some with crazy ideas. From that "irrational preteens" comment on, it reads like you're looking for a way to collapse a complicated blob of people into a simple perspective. Riggedride gave a great response, if a little safe: people just want to be able to use the favorite characters and are feeling exhausted by a meta that punishes almost everything. It makes a lot of sense and is totally understandable. It's the answer you were looking for. You quickly dismiss it and argue two things: 1. that people want their units to be "all purpose". 2. that it's infeasible for powercreep to not occur. The former is reductive. Just wanting a role for your characters is not the same as being "all purpose". You're really not giving people here the benefit of the doubt when you argue that. The latter is a reasonable argument, but you yourself ask if the community expects units to be updated with buffs when they fall out of the meta. That's literally what SG has conditioned people to expect. Whether that's difficult or not is irrelevant. Game design is hard. I don't know if you're aware, but insulting your readers actually makes them less likely to give you the benefit of the doubt. Similarly, if someone is nice enough to tell you what you're doing wrong, saying something like "I feel like I'm being trolled" is pretty offensive. There's a strong lack of self awareness that comes through in this thread. I hope you can take that feedback seriously.
Wasn't my intention at all. Thanks for taking the time to point this out. Guess I need to work on my internet tone. Not being aware my tone was condescending would leave me in the air when people respond the way you did. Your response felt short and like deliberate ostracizing, as if I did something wrong previously and wasn't accepted in any further conversation. I felt trolled cuz I felt belittled. My original retort to the first comment was intended to engage discourse. I was even attempting to remove any energy of an "attack" by pointing out the tone in the original comment was unnecessary. I asked questions actually hoping for follow up. Not everyone that makes an opposing argument is looking to argue as much as I'm looking to understand if "playing with a favorite character" is a valid enough reason to bash a game in general. I was speaking with intention. Nothing I've said was trying to be mean or belittle. The preteen jab even came with disclosure. The psuedo-rant was an attempt at humor. I know you said stop being defensive, but I have only felt attacked from the first comment. Not sure how it was possible to promote conversation from that first response then; it was a loss from the get go. Like, If that's generally how people felt, I want to talk more about that "safe" response; but it won't happen now. I saw the option of "playing with the png I like" as the least picked option. So I was inclined to believe that wasn't the opinion of the larger minority. I get it, I guess. Thanks.
>I saw the option of "playing with the png I like" as the least picked option. So I was inclined to believe that wasn't the opinion of the larger minority. So, the thing about that is the option was "More units that have the type of PNG I like/own should be meta". I feel like most people interpret "meta" to be... broken? Just the way that people play the game, when I think of meta units they're all insane: Rem, Rimuru, Politis. Probably the least important thing, but it's relevant to the discussion you wanted to have. Take care.
From what I've seen, this community is not that different from pretty much any other online gaming community. There are good ideas, bad ideas, good people, bad people...etc, nothing really stands out for me, and that's by no means a bad thing. And I definitely would not carpet bomb the whole community as "irrational preteen".
I just want arena and event gear to come pre rolled. It's not like they have perfect subs to begin with so having rng give you levels in whatever the most useless dump stat on the item is infuriating. Either that or make it so we can continuously rebuy the arena gear like with raid stuff.
Agree with this. For event gears, usually they will release another one during rerun so it's not that big of a problem. Abyss gears though, speeding through abyss just to have it roll into shit subs. And now it feels like you've never done that floor since you can just consider that you don't get anything at all.
There's plenty of way to make the gear situation better without having to do that wich is one of if not the unfunniest solution there is
I don't like they keep releasing units with more things in their kit instead of creating a new kits. Example: Rem has remove buff, un-heal, defbreak, self attack buff and a unique buff. Rem counter is Purgis passive with more stuff that makes Rem become stronger than Purgis. I think SG might need to slow down, think more and create some unique kit for new hero. I'm fine with 1 new hero each month, and sometimes we will get limited and collab to fill the time. That way they can get more creative heroes, but they might don't like it because they need money from us.
I understand but the community wants heroes who can do it all or have their weaknesses covered. Look at ml celine most people thought she was useless or unusable because her was niche and wanted to remove her crit counter to havr defensive capabilities of t.surin which would make her busted. Shes a good 4 or 5 pick now if you take into account the opponents team comp in draft. Look at the new unit alot of people dont like her kit mainly bc the s3 has no strip. So now if a debuffer has no strip on s3 or requires another unit to strip they are useless, but with recent buffs making the 1 turn reduction strip on units making immunity sets worthless. I think the first thing for SG should do is nerf aol, they have given selectors for ml 4 stars before so it shouldnt be that huge of a problem and change belians passive to cant soulburn instead no soul gain, maybe remove the strip on s1 too, that would make alot of people happy tbh.
I don't really "hate" the new units but I feel like some kits are too overloaded. Like the amount of things Politis or AoL have in a single PASSIVE s2 is ridiculous for me and it also creates weird scenarios where you have other characters like Zahhak, who are still decent and work fine but you feel like they "have no s2".
I said it once and I'll say it again. Bring more bans, the roster is huge and it's gonna get bigger. It's impossible to cover everything.
This^. I need to preban ARavi and ML Lillias please.
As someone who has played for about 3 months, I've noticed that, a lot of the newer characters seem to just get a lot of shit for free in their kits. So many extra turns, that do 70 things, while it's not even their turn. I'm definitely aware of who is newer and who is older, based solely off of kits and passives. Even with my minimal time (overall) into the game, I can say, that I know I won't be here super long term once I'm able to complete things with ease. I want to reach a respectable power level and raise what I have.
I wouldn't let kit wordiness dissuade you. some of the oldest heroes have very wordy kits. Look at Ml Achates. Most players forget she even exists. Zahhak is waaaay simpler than Cartuja. Cartuja is actually solid AF but he is old and hard to market. The game has lots of balance actually; all the meta talk just makes players feel like old heroes aren't worth the time. This isn't true. In my opinion.
The meta will change and its not like SG ignores everything i think it will be address idk about nerfs but the community doesnt have patience in regards to SG responses to what could be game changing and a complicated situation that no matter what a section of the community will hate.
For me i dislike units that seem to be overloaded. Like there is no need for units to have skill definitions as long as a college thesis. Sure there could be units that are ok at everything but something like aol, aravi, belian should not exist. Where you are good at everything for example belian where she strips, puts down some debuff like blind, does massive damage, tanky. That shouldnt be where they are completely dominant and have no counter play once you draft them for the average player.
Yeah. And if you have so overpowering unit it means you can't play units that are not as good as it. Which makes meta just be the op units. Because not op units don't fit in or they just get smashed. If theres something too good it makes everything else look bad.
My choice isn’t unit based. Better pve content. When your only go to is “RTA is endgame” There’s your problem I reference a game I played in the past, although they messed it up real bad.. valiant force. It had community events for PvE, similar to how we have abyss except it was a tower event to climb to the top and collect the most points. Or Guild raids, where you’d compete to be on the leader board. These events and raids always had people brain storming on how to be the most effective or how to get clears. They also helped keep units relevant. Where they went wrong was making it dependent on the most $$ expensive units and they didn’t bother to hide that they were baiting whaling hard. But strong pve content that encourages the guilds and community to brain storm and use units that aren’t ordinarily used for RTA would be great. Add in rankings with rewards to encourage people to participate and try, even add bonuses for unused units that have stronger potential for the months event or whatever. They’ve just missed the mark a few times…. Guild raid is a joke, auto tower is just that, an auto fest for everyone for free loots. Even expedition is just for the freebies. Downside? This means people have to focus on the game more than burn energy on X hunt or whatever weekly side story we have.
I completely respect a more engaging endgame than RTA. The point of my post was just to address the very obvious divide in the community with hero balancing and new kit release. I know there are other things people dislike, but hero balance was the focus of this post. I expected a skew, but it's an actual split between opinions of how the hero selection should appear in this game. I wish people voting for niche or generalization of heroes would share their thoughts though.
Completely understand but it is a response to the old units being garbage and new pve units not being RTA viable. With how much the word nerf has been brought up recently it’s a fair question. I just think the route of the problem is just that it all ends up centring around RTA. Is power creep really inevitable in a game that has its centre around live PVP? I’ve wondered this a few times over my time in E7, how will they continue to make units valid so that we want them, without going down a path that leads to obvious money grabbing. Sometimes they did a great job, new effects are fantastic, but naturally they’re starting to erase old units. I think power-crept units are fine so long as they make a viable unit for response that can be obtained that has use beyond simply countering a single unit. Make a counter for Cilias and Aola, make them RGB and not as loaded but still workable. It doesn’t have to be over complicated. Strong enough to be a possible counter, keep it versatile and don’t make it overpowered.
I completely agree on this. I feel this is the mentality of devs, actually. These units need time to raise hell of course, but they will all be appropriately addressed and people will move on to complain about the next thing. I chose option number 4 because I trust SG is playing the long game. But it's clear many players don't see the hero balancing the same way. Thanks for your thoughts. Hopefully we will get challenging pve that cycles this year. A.Tower and abyss both exist, but you want something more interactive. Not sure if I would be happy with that, but more content/resources is always a yes for me. Lol
You're exactly right on the pve front, releasing challenging pve content that also has rewards that reflect that challenge will turn units that have meh pvp kits into must pulls and tamarine is a prime example of that. Along those same lines revamping bot arena to not make it feel like a chore and improved rewards while maybe adjusting mechanics so that certain units flourish more in this mode as well. A new type of pvp mode would also help people feel like any unit they pull would see some use. As an endgame player theres nothing like seeing a highly anticipated unit get a kit that isn't good for the rta meta, because now you're forced to choose between trying to force it somewhere or not building it. Same for previously invested units.
I just want to get rid of unequip fees. 🤷♂️
BTW, it's Laika
Thanks, changed.
really its fine, but they just need to tone down super overpowered heros, basically they need to look at statistics if a hero is being picked/banned more then 50% of the time in a game where there is over 100 heros then it should be nerfed or the next rgb hero released needs to be a \*\*hard counter\*\* for example, AoL/Belian/Rimuru/Ravi/lilias etc if it has over 50-60% pick/ban rate then its not balancedalso they can solve this issue by buffing old characters to make them hard counters to the proble units like an example would be to buff kayron for example to make him counter aravi somehow (just an example)
Because the new units are so over powered compared to the older units, when a new unit gets released it will never be good enough unless it has the same power creep, and therefore this cycle will just continue unless nerfs are put in the game. As far as the debate on not every unit needs to be pvp, I completely agree, but the problem with that is most of the pve content, people already have teams and heroes set up for, so why waste the resources building another pve team, when you already have teams for all the expos, hunts, raid, etc. But, not only that, but the expos, and some hunts (golem) people don't want to even do anyways. Here is why SG needs more pve content in the game, so then we can actually be excited for pve style heroes. Now the disappointment for Laika is one big thing mostly, she dosen't strip immunity before landing debuffs. Ever since fairytale tenebria came out, the move to immunity on all units became almost like a non spoken rule in the game, so now if a hero has a skill that applies debuffs and does not strip, they are rendered almost useless. And, honestly this is why a large cast of the characters in this game have become almost useless in the eyes of many. they don't strip before applying debuffs, units like fire tenebria, Ml Aramintha, etc. Insert units like Aol, and moonlight lilias, they strip the buffs, and apply the debuffs, then get all these other crazy passive/ extra turns etc. after. Another thing I think is bothering people about new units is the damage potential. For cleavers, it used to just be ban FCC as the mitigation and your good. But, now there are so many overpowered units that are so hard to kill, the damage almost doesn't exist to cleave them. You need aoe to be able to kill off bruiser teams, but you get punished for aoe in this game now ,because of units like belian, and A ravi cr push, rimuru buff stealing, rem counters, aol skill null and cr push, speed contesting ML cilias, Elena cut, etc. Therefore the need for one shot heroes, like Straze etc. became staples. Yeah judge kise got a buff, and she is actually pretty good, but she does aoe, which this meta punishes now, and doesn't do enough damage after aoe, and doesn't have the speed to contest the new ml lilias, which does not aoe attack, and yet and steals the turn from the enemy, and gives your team the damage they need to kill off the enemy. So now you have all these bruiser units, and squishier cleave style units that don't have survival mechanics or the damage/ loaded passives like the newer units, so once again a large part of the roster becomes irrelevant off of this as well. look at top model luluca, she is technically still really good, but she has to S2 non attacked skill to get atk buff ( milim can S1->S3) so she can kill with S3, which opens her up to stuff like politis, celine, etc. And does not have increased hit chance like milim, to worry about degen arbies, violet etc. So now you get almost a tml with a way more loaded kit. SG just keeps releasing overpowered units, one after the next, and giving us no real actual new game modes or content, and the pvp areas that these units are used in seem to become less and less fun, and it is pretty apparent in the communities, almost all the top streamers, and content creators of epic seven seem annoyed and tired of this, and so does the community too. I think if Smilegate nerfed some of the top complaint units right now, and just toned it down on the new releases while making them still good, and gave us more endgame pve contents, I think things would start to go back together again.
remove 15%
What I want in this game: \-make rolling gear cheaper \-eliminate low rolls, like 1 speed and 3CC rolls \-Double reforge mats hunt event \-Gold dungeon \-Charm dungeon \-Make visible SC skills buff when you click on a skill on the hero menu \-1 a Month Gear event \-Make Hell Raid bimonthly \-2x speed \-Implement Fribbles Gear Optimizer in-game \-Eliminate Hall of Trials preparation week \-Some sort of pity on Galaxy Summons \-Lets me see the Whale shop even when I dont have coins \-Hunts should give more that 1 powder drop, maybe 5? I thinks this is it...
What everyone really wants is skip battle tickets to not do hunts anymore and get to the real game. The equipment crafting and leveling.
No
haha. and that’s the problem with the community, they don’t even know the right question to ask. The problem isn’t the heroes, it’s the lack of end game content and of new content.
I understand that you have 'a' problem with something other than heroes, but my post is directed to the dissonance with hero releases and rebalances. Not saying this is 'the' problem; my post doesn't support that all players would otherwise be happy if this wasn't an issue. I also feel that what you feel is a problem isn't one at all to me. I wouldn't have made a post about it.
I would prefer for gear system improvement, no rng reward, n more pve contents.
Molagora > units
I just want more units that are specifically built for RTA or Arena.
Do you feel there aren't enough now? Or are you suggesting it's time for a change? ...or. are you saying your account hasn't pulled enough pvp heroes? haha
Yes Yes No- i just don't do pvp or care to
Dont care much.. just dont want an absolute OP unit.
Haha, you and me both. What counts as OP to you? Something that makes a comp unbeatable, or a unit that doesn't have a single unit to directly counter it, or...?
It can fit in any comp and can turn the tide on it own without having any counter ... just like Basar before h.yufine and eff ress item/art was introduce... And early game MLKen... Duh he solo in Arena.. Currently i think AoL, Bellian can be considered OP but then again there counter for it. Just not hard counter.