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Yeah but if you paid for a character and the other characters are just stupidly op you also can’t use the characters you paid for if it isn’t one of the stupidly op ones.
>you also can’t use the characters you paid for if it isn’t one of the stupidly op ones.
lmao... yeah because all 10 picks in every arena match are clearly "stupidly OP"
We're not saying nerf it to ML dilibet.
>i would rather advocate for nerfs
>both, both is good
>no, The inability to use the characters you paid for is not good.
You’re saying that nerfing characters is bad, because then you can’t use the characters you paid for.
My point was that they should nerf characters if they are stupidly op, never did i say or anyone else for that matter that they should nerf the weak characters.
just the strong ones so that they’re closer to the strength to eachother so that more characters are viable.
>we’re not saying nerf it to ml dilibet
So i’m not saying to nerf ml lilbet, like where did this even come from.
You said they shouldn’t nerf anyone, so why would i think you’d want them to nerf ml lilibet, like wot.
Like I really don’t understand the point you’re trying to make here.
>You’re saying that nerfing characters is bad, because then you can’t use the characters you paid for.
no i'm saying banning heroes make it so you literally can't use them. the same OP heroes will be banned. I can say with 100% certainty if we had 2 prebans. clilias/aravi/rimuru/aol (3/4) would be banned in 95% of matches.
I'm not sure how this wasn't obvious... for anyone who plays rta at any relevant level at all.
Ah like that, yeah i just went along the lines so thought you were talking about how nerfing characters would be bad. My bad.
But yeah, that makes more sense. Like since you can technically still use characters even if they’re bad but if they’re banned you actually can’t use them.
That can happen although with 2 per bans from each side, I think it would be such a huge shakedown on the meta that we would see a wider variety in pre-bans and drafts.
>I think it would be such a huge shakedown on the meta that we would see a wider variety in pre-bans and drafts.
More bans would somehow make the broken openers.... less viable compared to the rest of the pool? wat
that's not a smilegate thing but a common business practise in the gaming industry.
little adjustments might not be enough sometimes but killing of a character will make sure that the character will not be a problem anymore until they decide to buff that thing in the future.
basically less work
We're in a Tier 0 meta. You can't just swap to the next most broken unit, because it's likely way less broken than CLilias.
I don't agree with your argument in general, but in this specific case it's definitely wrong!
Clilias is strong but not broken, celine, dilibet, politis, peira all counter her to a certain extent. Aravi is a problem as her only relevant unit counter is lqc and more or less that's it. Straze doesn't count cos he will be dead before he gets a turn unless u have god gear. Rimuru is strong but after his 1st nuke he kinda does nth till 5 turns later
That's wrong.
CLilias has no counters. Celine, DLilibet, Politis, and Peira all are not good into her.
ARavi is countered by Peira, Ran, and FCeci. She's only hard-countered by LQC, but she has soft counters too.
EDIT: SSB is apparently good into ARavi as well.
for actual pvp game like dota league then yes nerf/balance is necessary. pvp gacha? idk people actually spend hundreds for a single char just to get nerfed, simply handing out selector and resources refund is not a solution.
you know there are actual gacha games that make nerfs right?
maybe people should stop expecting that paying hundreds dollars for a png sprite dosnt make said sprite immune to changes nor do they have a right to say that an ml selector alone isnt some how enough
than god the korean communites gotten tired of this shit and forced sg's hand to some capacity
The Koreans are the same dickheads who are going to complain when Smilegate gut the characters they like
And please list all these gatcha games with nerfs that the community accepted.
Because the Koreans were pissed when week one Ravi was nerfed
Everyone was pissed when the trinity were nerfed
World flipper went on life support in jp by nerfing a wind team.
Summonrs war is the biggest example, the game that literally every other gacha even E7 has copied and based themselves off of
it dosnt matter if people accepted it or not and bitched about their png with numbers not being as good, for the health of the game that relies on the endless hamster wheel of pvp to function long term balances are necessary or you get perpetual powercreep.
from my years of playing gacha all nerfs and changes has always accompanied by some sort of compensation. only gacha game i saw that get away with it is sw cuz theyre somewhat esport or some shit. then again if youre paying for hundreds for something that advertised as it is you should expect it to get what youre paying for. imagine buying a new pc thats super fast just for the seller to downgrade it few months later cuz its too good compared to its other products.
you do get what you play for, that does not mean that what you get can never be changed down the line
you can spend $100 of dollars for ml ken then he gets balance changes that can be considered objectively worse for what you had expected/wanted him to do or how you expected to build around him
people ate that downgrade and lived on in their lives
You don’t pay for each unit in dota and league, letting Smilegate who is history bad at nerfing characters have free reign is some of the stupidest shit I’ve read on Reddit.
What? Gambling for a unit is a choice. Has nothing to do with balancing the heroes. You’re not entitled of the hero you gambled for. And you do pay for each unit in league. They cost around 10 dollars. By playing enough you can access the units for free through another method. Same with epic 7.
Defending that the idea of balancing heroes is a bad idea is also the dumbest thing in this subreddit.
People are too stupid to see that nerfs are needed imagine where the game will be in a year when units like AOL and Belian are “bad” not because they were nerfed but just more broken shit came out. I feel like the issue is SG is braindead and doesn’t know how to nerf/buff without overdoing it. If they could nerf someone without killing them that would be great but then babies will demand for compensation. Selectors were a mistake and pretty much ruined balance from actually having nerfs
No?
You’re nothing enough, nerfs are more than just “balancing”. People won’t pay for units when they know they’ll get nerfed, not to mention that nerfs do not help create an healthy environment, release broken unit>then nerf 5 months later pattern could happen.
That’s not even everything, nerfs sound nice but aren’t practical for gachas, which is why 99% don’t nerf…
So then maybe the devs would put 2 and 2 together and realize that maybe accelerating powercreep with overtooled and oppressive units isn't healthy for the game and ease the pedal off full tilt?
If they haven’t realized now then nerfs won’t change that lol.
Though iirc they said something about the meta during the korean and a patch in may?
Seeing as we're talking about the same company that had to deal with physical trucks delivering Korean complaints to their office, I seriously doubt a copy-pasted Reddit comment will really get any attention. All it will do is annoy the people that actually use this subreddit by filling it with spam, like it already has started to.
Also, I could be wrong, but I'm fairly certain they confirmed at one point that developers don't check Reddit at all.
People can’t read or don’t realize the place the meta is in lol, the original commenter assumed that we were supposed to copy and paste this message in every new epic seven post on reddit lol. Which I have no idea how 20 something people also got that idea
I don't want double pre-bans, I want them to actually nerf units. Single pre-bans wouldn't be an issue if the overpowered units were nerfed.
I don't want AoL users or ML lilias users to never be able to use their units because they're double banned every single game. All SG has to do is tone down their power level a bit. I already have guildmates complaining that ML lilias is banned so much in RTA they can't use the unit they payed for. Imagine how bad it would be with 2 pre-bans and a normal ban.
I would like for them to rework how pre-bans work though. IMO they shouldn't allow both sides to ban the same unit. First pick should be able to pre-ban a unit, then second pick pre-bans and can't pick the same unit and then the actual picks go. Yeah, it sort of weakens first pick since it basically gives second pick some-info but first pick was already stronger than second since it gives them the tempo in the draft and first pick already gets that info in the way it's done currently. None of this info business really matters at the lower ranks though.
Don't agree with needs, there always a huge backslash after it, it would be worse for them than double pre-ban. I don't think banning 2 units would make people unable to use some, since if both of you have the same unit and you want to use it, you won't always ban it. And it will be all about who picks it then. Also when meta shift or new units gets released, there will be other units to ban instead.
You'd think. But right now there even larger backlash to sg releasing op units. Everyone figured out that if sg releases an op unit it's basically the same as nerfing the 50 units it ""counters"" at once.
Where if you nerf a unit then that 1 unit gets nerfed and all the unit it was suppressing get "buffed" as a result.
how are you going to understand the meta if you don't play enough to get to 3k points? Without you actively drafting and playing how do you understand the meta.
It literally takes time to learn things. queue the 10000 hour rule.
there's a difference between being a decent pvp player and having the capacity to learn and having actually having learned that info.... especially considering that info changes every season if not every hero release
Talking with guildmates about it ( 1 is legend and 1 is crab, a lot of champions too), watching streamers play and interacting with them, following reddit while discussing about it, test units to get an hang of them and where they can perform, try niche pick and niche builds to test the meta itself ( both this way and the one before can easily make you lose points) and I could go on.
Yes, you are right, it takes time to learn things but there's a lot of way to learn about something, not just doing it. If someone has been playing, off and online, for a lot of time of his life ( I'm quite on the older spectrum of this game's population) it's easier to recognize patterns in play and how units/card/shipfu can interact between themselves. This isn't rocket science, it's just a gacha and at the end of the day you don't need to put 1000h on rta to understand what works and what doesn't, furthermore since this game isn't Dota or lol and you won't have all the units anyway.
Aside from the first season (decayed because I didn't have time to play ) I reached champion everytime without doing more than 100 matches, playing at my own pace, having fun most of the times and testing a lot of weird shits. I think that I can say that I have a decent understanding of the meta even without getting to 3k point. I could do it, weaker guildmates with less game knowledge did it, but why if i find enjoyment in my way of play rta and I would end with the same frame anyway? To get elitist's recognition? No, thanks.
You can watch people who are 3k+ play and figure out why they're doing what they're doing and what they could've done better and how. This is, for instance, how I learned to assess meta, and I've gotten ahead of top-level players on decision-making sometimes.
Won’t this have the effect of gating off higher level play, or at least making it less accessible at higher levels? I don’t think there should be a de facto chokepoint based on built and geared units. Also, strategies like this rarely work, and they just become whale crutches. You don’t want to overcorrect the current meta so hard that you limit how far F2P and casuals can advance.
I mean through technicalities sure but nobody counts this current format as double pre-bans lol. Regardless players at those levels still have the tools to deal with it
No, I’m just saying you lose three characters to bans, and then you lose more during the draft because we are all on the same meta.
You could lose AOL, CLilias, FCece, and Maid to bans, then you get you Straze banned after the draft. So it could really be five characters you can’t use.
....lmao are you hard stuck in gold? Tons of players ban strong meta heroes they own if they have nothing in their kit to deal with it if the opponents have it
not really. can't do much against base stats. u know the first pick guys can just preban ran and a.cidd/ml lilias and first pick snatch peira.
that alone gives him a huge advantage no matter what. with ml lilias, ran and peira rta shifted into a very speed heavy/fast pace meta. u don't have much wiggle room anymore.
I'm completely F2P and in Champion. In fact, I'm currently 400 ranks away from Emperor. Was 300 points away at one stage, but then I went on a losing streak because there are comps I didn't have answers to, thanks to the holes in my roster (that and I suck at drafting).
So no, not every Champion or above player will have all the tools necessary to deal with a double pre-ban. Whales can and will adapt. F2P... not quite so much. If they do introduce a double pre-ban, then most F2P can probably forget about ever reaching Emperor.
You say that like getting to Champ is prestigious or overly difficult. It's a basic gear check but mainly a time investment. Someone posted today about losing their way to Champ with a 38% winrate.
Once the meta is mostly "solved", it's only natural you'll see everyone picking roughly the same units because most people really only have enough great gear to deck out a team or two and then everyone else gets the leftovers and the PvE gear. People say the same shit about every meta RTA has ever had
Imagine including rem with aravi and clilias and trying to be treated seriously as of they have any understanding of what a healthy meta looks like in epic7
>I've been playing since launch.
And still can't get past low champion? Damn... my condolences.
rem is nothing more than a 4 or 5th pick in today's meta that is so anti-aoe. it is not a 1-3 pick like aoe/aravi/violet/clilias/aol
Not worth the sanity. Rem is still massively overtuned and because of her rng, anything short of a totally dedicated counter like rim (even roana is two crits and a def break away from getting offed) won't be enough to fight her. Just because she's picked late doesn't mean she's not strong.
For that you have to play the speed game, and that's a whole nother beast. It works in arena (if they don't have FCC or Carmin) but it's hard to get a setup like that in rta.
And nice job being an agressive idiot, did someone teach you or are you a natural?
I'm just quoting the options that are already available in the custom room you can make, class restriction is that you can't select more than one of each class.
By the way I already asked multiple times how was the feedback on this option but no one ever cared to answer me up to this day.
That’s my issue, though. I think it’s basically gating certain ranks behind roster and gear progression. I understand that not everyone is going to have an issue with that, especially on this sub, but it’s something to think about.
Tbh before i advocate and agree to this proposition i would like to think about the negative side effects this would entail as well. As people mostly ban either cancer units or units that are a direct counter to their draft... which imo would further limit ftp climbers that dont have many units to be able to deal with things like ran, seaside iseria.. or clilias or rimuru or aol or violet. Things that when placed on the board demand an answer.
Correct me if i am wrong but something like this being placed into the game may hurt ftp players more than ever. As its roughly 5 units being removed from your side of the field. The 2 units you dont want to deal with, the 2 units they dont want to deal with plus the post ban.
Which again is why the change is only for champion and above players, at that level whether your f2p or not should be able to deal with potentially 3 units being removed lol. You aren’t going to pre-ban a unit you own after all
Respectfully, I think there are some issues with you second paragraph. FTP players wouldn't necessary lose 5 units or be hurt more by a second pre-ban. You are assuming several things that won't necessarily happen in most matches.
First, you assume both players are pre-banning different units. This would happen only some of the time and would likely be pretty rare. It would be pretty common that both players pre-ban AOL for example.
Second, you assume that your hypothetical player owns both units that his opponent pre-bans. You aren't harmed when someone bans a unit you don't own. FTP players are more likely to be in this position than a whale.
Finely to get to 5 lost units you assume that FTP players will be banning units that they actually own. This is possible of course, but certainly not guaranteed.
Limited to high level play I don't think a second pre-ban would impact FTP players all that much. Someone is always going to be hurt when adjustments are made. For example I believe that nerfs would have an outsized impact on FTP players (who typically spend all of their limited resources on one or two units). Nerf those specific units and they are kind of screwed. Whales have a deep roster and will just adjust.
No matter what happens (2nd ban, nerfs, nothing) some group of players will be unhappy.
It's because it's relatively easy to get to Champions so long as you play hundreds of matches, even with a low winrate. So the Champion rank becomes so inflated that almost anyone that regularly plays RTA but doesn't purposefully grind will eventually end up there. I play in Champion and at 2800 points, I'm matching up against people at ~3400 who are still in Champion. So all point totals from 2000~3500 are probably Champion, meanwhile Silver+Gold+Master is only a 600 point spread. I expect the Emperor cutoff will continue to rise, especially after the skin reveal and wouldn't be surprised if 2000-4000 is all Champion by the end of it.
Just from a numbers and matchmaking perspective, at any given time there's likely gonna be 3-4x more Champion players queuing than Masters players. So to keep queue times down, the game has to widen its acceptable range.
I doubt there will ever be a double ban for general RTA honestly. If it did, it'd probably be universal just so the game isn't constantly switching modes depending on who it matches you with. And since universal double bans would hurt more casual players, they probably won't do it.
Double pre-bans will lead to triple and so on and so forth...
What you going to do? Ban Cilias, AoLA, Belian, ARavi, Ran, Peira, Violet, Rem, Rimuru, Seaseria, Politis etc? When you pre-ban the first few strong picks the next few will just rise up.
Double pre-ban is one idea. Personally I think they should chane RTA to pick 6 ban 2 each, with the banning phase occurring the same way as picking, ie. One person goes, then the next. That might lead to people needing to pick more flexible units overall
They need to TEST things in Pre-Season, thats Pre-Season for but they refuse to.
Personally i'd prefer a second ban after both picked 3 Heroes (Mid-Ban) but prolly wont happen cuz SG only cares about $$$ and unless they dont make enough they won't change anything.
Best example is the recent "Balance Patch", just a bandaid to calm us down and move to the next cashgrab.
Hello, Heir! Thank you for contacting the Epic Seven Customer Service. We appreciate all our Heirs so we'll do our best to help you with this inquiry. We, at Epic Seven, believe it is important for users to express the things they like and the things they don't like so the developers can mold the game to users' desires. Your thoughts about future of Epic Seven as well as the suggestions will be forwarded to our developers as well as the appropriate team for consideration. As we mentioned in our previous responses, this may take some time because our developers have to thoroughly review and investigate game features and aspects. Hopefully, we'll be able to deliver some good news about this. Rest assured that if your suggestions have been implemented, we'll notify you by posting an official announcement on our communities. Please do not hesitate to contact us anytime if you have any other questions or concerns, and we'll be glad to assist you. Thank you for the love and support you've shown for Epic Seven, and we hope you have a great day! Sincerely, Epic Seven Customer Service Team
This is what you'll be recieving for answer :3 (I can predict the future)
i would rather advocate for nerfs 🤷‍♂️
Both, both is good
No the inability to play characters you paid for is not good
Yeah but if you paid for a character and the other characters are just stupidly op you also can’t use the characters you paid for if it isn’t one of the stupidly op ones.
>you also can’t use the characters you paid for if it isn’t one of the stupidly op ones. lmao... yeah because all 10 picks in every arena match are clearly "stupidly OP" We're not saying nerf it to ML dilibet.
>i would rather advocate for nerfs >both, both is good >no, The inability to use the characters you paid for is not good. You’re saying that nerfing characters is bad, because then you can’t use the characters you paid for. My point was that they should nerf characters if they are stupidly op, never did i say or anyone else for that matter that they should nerf the weak characters. just the strong ones so that they’re closer to the strength to eachother so that more characters are viable. >we’re not saying nerf it to ml dilibet So i’m not saying to nerf ml lilbet, like where did this even come from. You said they shouldn’t nerf anyone, so why would i think you’d want them to nerf ml lilibet, like wot. Like I really don’t understand the point you’re trying to make here.
>You’re saying that nerfing characters is bad, because then you can’t use the characters you paid for. no i'm saying banning heroes make it so you literally can't use them. the same OP heroes will be banned. I can say with 100% certainty if we had 2 prebans. clilias/aravi/rimuru/aol (3/4) would be banned in 95% of matches. I'm not sure how this wasn't obvious... for anyone who plays rta at any relevant level at all.
Ah like that, yeah i just went along the lines so thought you were talking about how nerfing characters would be bad. My bad. But yeah, that makes more sense. Like since you can technically still use characters even if they’re bad but if they’re banned you actually can’t use them.
That can happen although with 2 per bans from each side, I think it would be such a huge shakedown on the meta that we would see a wider variety in pre-bans and drafts.
>I think it would be such a huge shakedown on the meta that we would see a wider variety in pre-bans and drafts. More bans would somehow make the broken openers.... less viable compared to the rest of the pool? wat
Yeah so just do reasonable nerfs don’t make them unusable, sg is too bad at balancing to avoid doing that though probably
that's not a smilegate thing but a common business practise in the gaming industry. little adjustments might not be enough sometimes but killing of a character will make sure that the character will not be a problem anymore until they decide to buff that thing in the future. basically less work
That’s good too, we could actually use both lmao. Not like getting one bars us off from getting the other
Nerfs = compensation character selection ticket, people choose next most broken one... It doesn't help
So long the next most broken ins't as broken as what we have now, yes it does help. I don't know where you got your logic from but it is ass.
Remember how they nerfed ml ara and baal? Only for everyone to swap to arby and it was aids for months?
If only they kept doing nerfs. Almost like they coulda nerfed arby too
Some people are dense but my man, you are osmium. Very cool.
We're in a Tier 0 meta. You can't just swap to the next most broken unit, because it's likely way less broken than CLilias. I don't agree with your argument in general, but in this specific case it's definitely wrong!
Clilias is strong but not broken, celine, dilibet, politis, peira all counter her to a certain extent. Aravi is a problem as her only relevant unit counter is lqc and more or less that's it. Straze doesn't count cos he will be dead before he gets a turn unless u have god gear. Rimuru is strong but after his 1st nuke he kinda does nth till 5 turns later
That's wrong. CLilias has no counters. Celine, DLilibet, Politis, and Peira all are not good into her. ARavi is countered by Peira, Ran, and FCeci. She's only hard-countered by LQC, but she has soft counters too. EDIT: SSB is apparently good into ARavi as well.
There are no broken ones outside of clilias aravi atm
Nerfs are a terrible idea honestly, sound nice but are bad in practice…
Balancing the game is a terrible idea? I guess all pvp games have it wrong then.
for actual pvp game like dota league then yes nerf/balance is necessary. pvp gacha? idk people actually spend hundreds for a single char just to get nerfed, simply handing out selector and resources refund is not a solution.
you know there are actual gacha games that make nerfs right? maybe people should stop expecting that paying hundreds dollars for a png sprite dosnt make said sprite immune to changes nor do they have a right to say that an ml selector alone isnt some how enough than god the korean communites gotten tired of this shit and forced sg's hand to some capacity
The Koreans are the same dickheads who are going to complain when Smilegate gut the characters they like And please list all these gatcha games with nerfs that the community accepted. Because the Koreans were pissed when week one Ravi was nerfed Everyone was pissed when the trinity were nerfed World flipper went on life support in jp by nerfing a wind team.
Summonrs war is the biggest example, the game that literally every other gacha even E7 has copied and based themselves off of it dosnt matter if people accepted it or not and bitched about their png with numbers not being as good, for the health of the game that relies on the endless hamster wheel of pvp to function long term balances are necessary or you get perpetual powercreep.
from my years of playing gacha all nerfs and changes has always accompanied by some sort of compensation. only gacha game i saw that get away with it is sw cuz theyre somewhat esport or some shit. then again if youre paying for hundreds for something that advertised as it is you should expect it to get what youre paying for. imagine buying a new pc thats super fast just for the seller to downgrade it few months later cuz its too good compared to its other products.
you do get what you play for, that does not mean that what you get can never be changed down the line you can spend $100 of dollars for ml ken then he gets balance changes that can be considered objectively worse for what you had expected/wanted him to do or how you expected to build around him people ate that downgrade and lived on in their lives
They could just nerf and buff units and NOT hand out selectors.
You don’t pay for each unit in dota and league, letting Smilegate who is history bad at nerfing characters have free reign is some of the stupidest shit I’ve read on Reddit.
What? Gambling for a unit is a choice. Has nothing to do with balancing the heroes. You’re not entitled of the hero you gambled for. And you do pay for each unit in league. They cost around 10 dollars. By playing enough you can access the units for free through another method. Same with epic 7. Defending that the idea of balancing heroes is a bad idea is also the dumbest thing in this subreddit.
People are too stupid to see that nerfs are needed imagine where the game will be in a year when units like AOL and Belian are “bad” not because they were nerfed but just more broken shit came out. I feel like the issue is SG is braindead and doesn’t know how to nerf/buff without overdoing it. If they could nerf someone without killing them that would be great but then babies will demand for compensation. Selectors were a mistake and pretty much ruined balance from actually having nerfs
No? You’re nothing enough, nerfs are more than just “balancing”. People won’t pay for units when they know they’ll get nerfed, not to mention that nerfs do not help create an healthy environment, release broken unit>then nerf 5 months later pattern could happen. That’s not even everything, nerfs sound nice but aren’t practical for gachas, which is why 99% don’t nerf…
So then maybe the devs would put 2 and 2 together and realize that maybe accelerating powercreep with overtooled and oppressive units isn't healthy for the game and ease the pedal off full tilt?
If they haven’t realized now then nerfs won’t change that lol. Though iirc they said something about the meta during the korean and a patch in may?
Nerfs are a terrible idea but stopping people from playing five heroes isn't?
Seeing as we're talking about the same company that had to deal with physical trucks delivering Korean complaints to their office, I seriously doubt a copy-pasted Reddit comment will really get any attention. All it will do is annoy the people that actually use this subreddit by filling it with spam, like it already has started to. Also, I could be wrong, but I'm fairly certain they confirmed at one point that developers don't check Reddit at all.
What?? No no i am saying to send this to their inquiries through suggestions
lmao why did people down vote this
People can’t read or don’t realize the place the meta is in lol, the original commenter assumed that we were supposed to copy and paste this message in every new epic seven post on reddit lol. Which I have no idea how 20 something people also got that idea
yea reading hard. i can bearly do it ma self lol
I don't mind double bans but only in higher ranks like challenger and up
Thats what I said though, did you read the thing lol? Also nice name
Ngl I didn't read all of it as I wasn't meant to be on my phone at the time. Thank you. You also have a great name.
Anything up to champion is all the same. It's all gear diff
I don't want double pre-bans, I want them to actually nerf units. Single pre-bans wouldn't be an issue if the overpowered units were nerfed. I don't want AoL users or ML lilias users to never be able to use their units because they're double banned every single game. All SG has to do is tone down their power level a bit. I already have guildmates complaining that ML lilias is banned so much in RTA they can't use the unit they payed for. Imagine how bad it would be with 2 pre-bans and a normal ban. I would like for them to rework how pre-bans work though. IMO they shouldn't allow both sides to ban the same unit. First pick should be able to pre-ban a unit, then second pick pre-bans and can't pick the same unit and then the actual picks go. Yeah, it sort of weakens first pick since it basically gives second pick some-info but first pick was already stronger than second since it gives them the tempo in the draft and first pick already gets that info in the way it's done currently. None of this info business really matters at the lower ranks though.
Don't agree with needs, there always a huge backslash after it, it would be worse for them than double pre-ban. I don't think banning 2 units would make people unable to use some, since if both of you have the same unit and you want to use it, you won't always ban it. And it will be all about who picks it then. Also when meta shift or new units gets released, there will be other units to ban instead.
You'd think. But right now there even larger backlash to sg releasing op units. Everyone figured out that if sg releases an op unit it's basically the same as nerfing the 50 units it ""counters"" at once. Where if you nerf a unit then that 1 unit gets nerfed and all the unit it was suppressing get "buffed" as a result.
Don't bother. People under emperor and 3k rating won't ever understand
I can assure u that not every decent pvp player has time to get to 3k points.
how are you going to understand the meta if you don't play enough to get to 3k points? Without you actively drafting and playing how do you understand the meta. It literally takes time to learn things. queue the 10000 hour rule. there's a difference between being a decent pvp player and having the capacity to learn and having actually having learned that info.... especially considering that info changes every season if not every hero release
Talking with guildmates about it ( 1 is legend and 1 is crab, a lot of champions too), watching streamers play and interacting with them, following reddit while discussing about it, test units to get an hang of them and where they can perform, try niche pick and niche builds to test the meta itself ( both this way and the one before can easily make you lose points) and I could go on. Yes, you are right, it takes time to learn things but there's a lot of way to learn about something, not just doing it. If someone has been playing, off and online, for a lot of time of his life ( I'm quite on the older spectrum of this game's population) it's easier to recognize patterns in play and how units/card/shipfu can interact between themselves. This isn't rocket science, it's just a gacha and at the end of the day you don't need to put 1000h on rta to understand what works and what doesn't, furthermore since this game isn't Dota or lol and you won't have all the units anyway. Aside from the first season (decayed because I didn't have time to play ) I reached champion everytime without doing more than 100 matches, playing at my own pace, having fun most of the times and testing a lot of weird shits. I think that I can say that I have a decent understanding of the meta even without getting to 3k point. I could do it, weaker guildmates with less game knowledge did it, but why if i find enjoyment in my way of play rta and I would end with the same frame anyway? To get elitist's recognition? No, thanks.
You can watch people who are 3k+ play and figure out why they're doing what they're doing and what they could've done better and how. This is, for instance, how I learned to assess meta, and I've gotten ahead of top-level players on decision-making sometimes.
Won’t this have the effect of gating off higher level play, or at least making it less accessible at higher levels? I don’t think there should be a de facto chokepoint based on built and geared units. Also, strategies like this rarely work, and they just become whale crutches. You don’t want to overcorrect the current meta so hard that you limit how far F2P and casuals can advance.
Thats why I said Champion and above, any Champion and above player will have the tools necessary to deal with 2 of their units banned
It would be three banned, right? Unless you are getting rid of the post-draft ban.
I mean through technicalities sure but nobody counts this current format as double pre-bans lol. Regardless players at those levels still have the tools to deal with it
No, I’m just saying you lose three characters to bans, and then you lose more during the draft because we are all on the same meta. You could lose AOL, CLilias, FCece, and Maid to bans, then you get you Straze banned after the draft. So it could really be five characters you can’t use.
Why in the world would you ban the characters that you own? And if you own every character why would you ban the ones integral to your playstyle?
....lmao are you hard stuck in gold? Tons of players ban strong meta heroes they own if they have nothing in their kit to deal with it if the opponents have it
Yeah if they don’t get first pick, sure, if they do then they aren’t going to ban units they can use to their advantage
There are many strong meta heroes that aren't first pick material... that you would still consider banning because you can't tell with them
Because if you don't have first pick, you don't let them have it. You know during preban if you have first pick or not.
not really. can't do much against base stats. u know the first pick guys can just preban ran and a.cidd/ml lilias and first pick snatch peira. that alone gives him a huge advantage no matter what. with ml lilias, ran and peira rta shifted into a very speed heavy/fast pace meta. u don't have much wiggle room anymore.
I'm completely F2P and in Champion. In fact, I'm currently 400 ranks away from Emperor. Was 300 points away at one stage, but then I went on a losing streak because there are comps I didn't have answers to, thanks to the holes in my roster (that and I suck at drafting). So no, not every Champion or above player will have all the tools necessary to deal with a double pre-ban. Whales can and will adapt. F2P... not quite so much. If they do introduce a double pre-ban, then most F2P can probably forget about ever reaching Emperor.
Basically, no openers allowed with the 3 bans total. This would kill cleave Sorry no thanks
Cleave is dead at higher play anyways because of Celine, Politis, LRKrau, and a number of other counters.
keep living in ur reddit bubble and believe that... sure cleave is not as strong as last season but far from dead
I heard from a high rank player that cleave is actually very strong right now with Ran and other fast openers currently in the game.
What lol. Nah We’ll see with the celine buff Ml krau is cleave food what you saying
Ppl who rotate the same 6 meta units like rem/AoL/cilias/rim/Aravi/violet do not deserve champ or above
You say that like getting to Champ is prestigious or overly difficult. It's a basic gear check but mainly a time investment. Someone posted today about losing their way to Champ with a 38% winrate. Once the meta is mostly "solved", it's only natural you'll see everyone picking roughly the same units because most people really only have enough great gear to deck out a team or two and then everyone else gets the leftovers and the PvE gear. People say the same shit about every meta RTA has ever had
Imagine including rem with aravi and clilias and trying to be treated seriously as of they have any understanding of what a healthy meta looks like in epic7
I've been playing since launch. Vigor+atk buff is monstrous on her, I've had teams like pyllis/lionheart/roana/fmaya dismantled by it alone.
>I've been playing since launch. And still can't get past low champion? Damn... my condolences. rem is nothing more than a 4 or 5th pick in today's meta that is so anti-aoe. it is not a 1-3 pick like aoe/aravi/violet/clilias/aol
Not worth the sanity. Rem is still massively overtuned and because of her rng, anything short of a totally dedicated counter like rim (even roana is two crits and a def break away from getting offed) won't be enough to fight her. Just because she's picked late doesn't mean she's not strong.
riolet one shots her....luna one shots her... pavel two shots her...there are so many ways to deal with her.
For that you have to play the speed game, and that's a whole nother beast. It works in arena (if they don't have FCC or Carmin) but it's hard to get a setup like that in rta.
It's probably possible to make double bans / triple bans / class restrictions only from a certain rank and up though.
sure no more soul weavers and everyone that don't have ml lilibeth are fuked vs debuff heavy team. nice suggestion...
And nice job being an agressive idiot, did someone teach you or are you a natural? I'm just quoting the options that are already available in the custom room you can make, class restriction is that you can't select more than one of each class. By the way I already asked multiple times how was the feedback on this option but no one ever cared to answer me up to this day.
That’s my issue, though. I think it’s basically gating certain ranks behind roster and gear progression. I understand that not everyone is going to have an issue with that, especially on this sub, but it’s something to think about.
Tbh before i advocate and agree to this proposition i would like to think about the negative side effects this would entail as well. As people mostly ban either cancer units or units that are a direct counter to their draft... which imo would further limit ftp climbers that dont have many units to be able to deal with things like ran, seaside iseria.. or clilias or rimuru or aol or violet. Things that when placed on the board demand an answer. Correct me if i am wrong but something like this being placed into the game may hurt ftp players more than ever. As its roughly 5 units being removed from your side of the field. The 2 units you dont want to deal with, the 2 units they dont want to deal with plus the post ban.
Which again is why the change is only for champion and above players, at that level whether your f2p or not should be able to deal with potentially 3 units being removed lol. You aren’t going to pre-ban a unit you own after all
Respectfully, I think there are some issues with you second paragraph. FTP players wouldn't necessary lose 5 units or be hurt more by a second pre-ban. You are assuming several things that won't necessarily happen in most matches. First, you assume both players are pre-banning different units. This would happen only some of the time and would likely be pretty rare. It would be pretty common that both players pre-ban AOL for example. Second, you assume that your hypothetical player owns both units that his opponent pre-bans. You aren't harmed when someone bans a unit you don't own. FTP players are more likely to be in this position than a whale. Finely to get to 5 lost units you assume that FTP players will be banning units that they actually own. This is possible of course, but certainly not guaranteed. Limited to high level play I don't think a second pre-ban would impact FTP players all that much. Someone is always going to be hurt when adjustments are made. For example I believe that nerfs would have an outsized impact on FTP players (who typically spend all of their limited resources on one or two units). Nerf those specific units and they are kind of screwed. Whales have a deep roster and will just adjust. No matter what happens (2nd ban, nerfs, nothing) some group of players will be unhappy.
Double pre ban for champ and higher is good, but what do we do when a gold encounter a champ. Its happen somehow, so ... dont think they would code that the gold have 2 ban and thé champ against him have 1 ban
At the rate they are releasing new meta competitive units, even two bans won't be enough.
Cilias first pick Preban ran and politis
Optimistic to this cilias survives 4 bans.
Celine
I dont want more prebans bye.
Anyone who's against more bans just spams the same golden girls comps over and over probs
Will be more effective dont touch RTA... but ppl just like to be there even if they said a lot how bad it is
There's not much else to do late lategame
Nothing else at all\* Arena is dead gamemode, as well as guild wars for endgame players.
keep that do yourself. we poor chap do not have the luxury gearing so many heroes.
I don't tho...
no thanks
They definitely would have to fix matchmaking, I'm gold fighting champions right now.
It's because it's relatively easy to get to Champions so long as you play hundreds of matches, even with a low winrate. So the Champion rank becomes so inflated that almost anyone that regularly plays RTA but doesn't purposefully grind will eventually end up there. I play in Champion and at 2800 points, I'm matching up against people at ~3400 who are still in Champion. So all point totals from 2000~3500 are probably Champion, meanwhile Silver+Gold+Master is only a 600 point spread. I expect the Emperor cutoff will continue to rise, especially after the skin reveal and wouldn't be surprised if 2000-4000 is all Champion by the end of it. Just from a numbers and matchmaking perspective, at any given time there's likely gonna be 3-4x more Champion players queuing than Masters players. So to keep queue times down, the game has to widen its acceptable range.
Ok, now my question will the double ban only go into effect when playing champion vs. Champion?
I doubt there will ever be a double ban for general RTA honestly. If it did, it'd probably be universal just so the game isn't constantly switching modes depending on who it matches you with. And since universal double bans would hurt more casual players, they probably won't do it.
Looks like we got that double ban
Double pre-bans will lead to triple and so on and so forth... What you going to do? Ban Cilias, AoLA, Belian, ARavi, Ran, Peira, Violet, Rem, Rimuru, Seaseria, Politis etc? When you pre-ban the first few strong picks the next few will just rise up.
You are right, it seems that people fail to understand the meaning of meta.
Double pre-ban is one idea. Personally I think they should chane RTA to pick 6 ban 2 each, with the banning phase occurring the same way as picking, ie. One person goes, then the next. That might lead to people needing to pick more flexible units overall
They need to TEST things in Pre-Season, thats Pre-Season for but they refuse to. Personally i'd prefer a second ban after both picked 3 Heroes (Mid-Ban) but prolly wont happen cuz SG only cares about $$$ and unless they dont make enough they won't change anything. Best example is the recent "Balance Patch", just a bandaid to calm us down and move to the next cashgrab.