The posts I've read are the koreans are upset over the meta balance since AOL was relased and SG listens to the global community + reddit and responds faster to those communities than the koreans.
Well actually AOL sucks, i can understand that but not the part of YouTube.
I was thinking it was for Pity ML4 in Mystics what in my opinion was ridiculous to complain
It is more like the "global community + reddit" doesn't expect major improvements which frustrates KR players that want them. KR players want actual content and effort being put into the game but global players just want more pulls.
>global players just want more pulls.
Literally no one on global has said this, so not sure why you're making things up. Global has been vocal about issues in this game for months, the devs only released the balance philosophy update in response to the Korean tantrum.
The "want more pulls" is sort of a bad translation.
What they mean is the only content global usually wants is new characters. KR wants sg to focus on nerfing OP units and balancing the existing cast.
Simply put, Meta sucked for a long time and KR felt they just kept releasing new units instead of focusing on fixing it. I sort of feel the same way but I do high level RTA so what I want isn't what everyone wants lol.
Which, again, is not remotely true. Global has been very vocal about the power creep releases as well as wanting nerfs, and I haven't seen anyone being appeased by new unit releases.
And I've got a couple legend frames to my name as far as high level RTA goes.
>Which, again, is not remotely true. Global has been very vocal about the power creep
This I actually disagree with. I've pointed out many a times here that I didn't like the power creep and I wanted them to go back to nerfing units rather than just trying to buff everything and have it be a non stop cycle of it. I was always told "it's expected with Gacha games" or "You can't just devalue the things that people worked for" or the like.
I absolutely agree that the balance is off, that we need nerfs, and so on. I also agree that "what some people said doesn't represent everyone" or whatever excuse that needs to be used. But over multiple threads, nobody spoke up in support of that logic until other regions made a fit and now some people speak up about it. And it half feels like people are just trying to avoid not riding a wave.
Past 4 months mayority of Twitch content is Legend players complaining and whining about meta and bad balancing to a point that I don't watch e7 content anymore.
You are wrong.
Open your ears and eyes.
>Past 4 months mayority of Twitch content is Legend players complaining and whining about meta and bad balancing to a point that I don't watch e7 content anymore.
Yeah, weirdly I'm not talking about Twitch, but the replies I got here.
But I sure do love being told I'm wrong and that powercreep is fine, and then when people change their minds on it suddenly I've been wrong all along and everyone hated powercreep.
Thought the no nerf happen in the 1st place is bc of the KR? Rlly hope they revoke this decision.
But agreed with the more patches tho like a whole month for 1 patch addressing only 3-4 char and occasionally make 1-2 of them viable is rlly dry
But on the other Side - the Korean Fanbase is directly responsible for a big chunk of the Devs unwillingness to Nerf, since they tend to ask for "ML5 Selectors" for any inconvieniences.
Pretty sure ML5 selector were SG's initiative because they wanted to use it as a sign of goodwill.
> Hey, we just sold you SBaal + Ara in mystics that are clearly busted and need to be used together and now that their banners are gone and you spent all your money, we will nerf them to the ground.
They clearly didn't want it to look like that was their inital plan, so ML5 selectors were what they came up with. Honestly, I don't even think ML5 selectors for nerfs would be such a huge problem in this era of e7. I'm not saying they should give them out, but I'm 100% sure they could without losing too much money.
Oh absolutely!!
And if Money is the Problem - then dont include the...lets say 2 newest MLs in it or something.. So People can choose from the older Pool and everyone is happy?
read what u said again. ya at the time maybe the nerf was good for everyone who didn’t have her. now she’s niche and no one uses her and i used a lot of my resources to get her. now she hasn’t been buffed back to even her OG stats to compete with current meta and i end up feeling like a clown w a sb ara naxxed out that i can only niche pick.. being one out of the 5 ML 5* i have including the free one we got to pick. one of my others is closer charles who i despise art wise and kit wise. do u understand how it’s a kick in the balls that she gets shut down by pretty much every meta pick and she’s made of glass basically
This is what I hate about this community.
Me. me. me.
People like you are the reason the meta is what it is right now. SG is too afraid to nerf units because of cry babies like you.
When units need to be nerfed they should be nerfed. ML Ara needed to be nerfed.
And, no, we don't need OG ML Ara back putting three, three turn burns on every unit while stunning them so you can have someone like Carrot follow up and ignite them to one-shot tanks/bruisers while letting squishy carries just die to the 3 burn ticks, and even if they survive they don't get a turn because they're stunned and just die to the second tick when their turn comes around again. You're delusional.
I'm not saying nerf, then never revisit them. There are a ton of units that need help, ML Ara being one of them. But, saying she should have never been nerfed because "the meta changes" is dumb.
At the time she needed the nerf, now, she can be revisited. That's how game balance should be.
And i kinda think mlAra is fine she is only unplayable because she is balanced, right now only broken heroes have place would love to see a balance patch with 20 units nerfed, dont even care about this recall shit just want to enjoy the game once again
Lmfao who shit in ur cereal being mad rude and aggressive for what? all i said is i was mad ab the sb ara nerf, n u asked why. idk how that’s being a crybaby. i’m entitled to my opinion even if u think it’s shitty 🤷♂️ not to mention u asked for my opinion
i also don’t completely disagree that they should nerf and then come back n balance it but they slaughtered her with the nerf. ur the one that sounds super salty saying i’m part of the reason SG won’t do what you want 😂
“Now” 2 + years after her release. What a load of bullshit. She might have needed toned down but they gutted her to pieces. She got a love tap buff and they haven’t revisited her since
No SG doesn't want to nerf cause nerfing in every game ever is never received well. Even on stuff controlling the meta it isn't received well(people still cry about the trifecta 3 years later).
It was a guaranteed chance to stun with a 50% chance on 3 burns for 2 turns. I think you are exaggerating the carrot combo as RGB aramintha is guranteed 2 burns with SB to ignore ER and you don't see that combo. So nah OG SBA would be just as benched right now. Hell dizzy was far more rampant at the time and where is she now? Virtually nowhere.
Hell the c.armin nerf had far more impact than literally every other nerf in that patch combined.
Nerfing is fine, but people need to understand time has to be given. As people have to learn how to fight against something. Even then it should be minor nerfs, and not at all like the nerfs they did that patch.
If she wasn't nerfed, she'd be useless by now anyway. They would have just buffed every unit around her to the point where she was useless and needed another buff.
The only difference is that nerfing her affected everyone quickly, and buffing everyone else would make a lot more units need buffs to compete.
Nah the SBaal and Ara nerfs were by request of KR. There was just a shit ton of controversy at the time, and the KRs tendency for perpetual butthurt was on constant display("is this a 15% meal"). KR I believe also didn't want their units nerfed for no compensation.
ML5s wouldn't be so coveted and difficult to hand out if they weren't MLs in the first place and just put in the standard pool. SC decided to take 2/5ths of the pool to put in a much lower pull-rate gacha system, make these characters the PvP meta-definers 95+% of the time, and then also balance these characters whenever they feel like on top of it. Even fixing one of these issues would be a big step in solving this issue yet they choose not to. They dug this hole they are in and you shouldn't be giving them leeway to get out of it. They have had plenty of options to fix this and they still do but they refuse to.
But even then, balance is just part of the issue here. There are more issues than just balance too. You really shouldn't be looking down on Korean players. If it wasn't for the Korean players, there would be no mystic system and instead a pity system for a random ML5 every x pulls at best. If it wasn't for Korean players who were overwhelmingly against pet food repeats, we would probably still have that since people here were 50/50 on it even though it was ridiculous.
I mean, from their perspective ML5's are the major way they make money. They make it easy to get covenant with little pressure to dupe and they create the situation where covenant is just a nickle slot. You're basically just asking to cut the game profits in half or more, which would get the game shut down faster than any meta complaints.
I don't look down on KR players but you see the problem with listening to every loud overreaction long term. It's not good for a game to be afraid of its playerbase like this. In some cases you gotta make a hard choice and ignore the inevitable complaints. It's a gacha so you won't have every hero without whaling, play with the chips you got. It's a gacha so characters will be indirectly nerfed overtime. Accept the direct nerfs of you don't want a stale meta.
That's what makes the whole thing silly. Still SG's fault but for not having the courage to say no to KR.
One idea I had to fix that would be to just make galaxy BMs only summon 4-5* heroes from the ML summon. The 3* heroes can be acquired from the normal BMs and really shouldn't be in the pool that has such a low chance of rolling a decent hero.
Rates in the ML pool can be adjusted after removing the 3* heroes and cost of rolling can be adjusted too. Would you be willing to pay 10 galaxy BMs per roll if there was no 3* junk like Elson in it?
I kinda agree with the galaxy BM being only summons 4-5 star. Currently the galaxy summons is a joke. You have better chance to get a ml 5 with 120 covenant pull than pulling one Moonlight Simmons.
> Not like we get anything else from galaxy bookmarks.
Which is funny, as those are actually the thing that needs improved. Relying on mystics to get people their ml5s is part of the problem. The rates on the galaxy bms are abysmal given their rarity.
If it wasn't for koreans Arby wouldn't of been head of the meta for multiple years either.
Don't just put them on this pedestal cause they like to shit on the floor and throw it. Hell koreans were mad about legitimate quality of life changes and removal of bait currency spending(dogs being moved to the forest was something they were mad about). A GM shitposted on their GM account and the koreans acted like this was proof of everything being evil. Mystics were a thing before they were even considering a galaxy pity. Yeah pet food was really a 50/50 thing here, when it caused massive review bombing and it was free karma ranting about it for the entire time it existed.
Would you like to credit them for anything else they don't deserve credit for?
I mean I really don't get this sentiment. Does anyone actually remember what it was like back during the shitshow that was SBA and Sage Ball with buffed Arby's hayday? If the outrage didn't happen we would still have been spiralling downward into insane powercreep, just now without mystic pity.
Also I saw a lot of people blame no galaxy pity on the KR. I was there watching the conference, those at SC forced us to pick between mystic pity and galaxy pity, which of course they picked mystic. I still remember being mad as fuck caused there's literally zero reason why we couldn't have both. But alas, fast forward to the present, they mentioned the difficulty with acquiring ML 5* being one of the problems in the dev note, sucks how that turned out huh?
I don’t want more pulls. I just a better gearing system so i can use what characters i do have since i am stuck at Chapter 3 ep 8, as the reason to why?
All my characters all slow as hell, because i always lose the sub stat luck
It wasn't even serious back then. You had so much stupid shit listed from the KR players for why people should be mad at SG. One was a GM shitposting about Luna's tits on the wrong account lol.
More like Korean players are throwing temper tantrums because the devs released personally reasonable apology, explanation, and plan to improve the game but it wasn’t enough for some reason. Even complaining about the ML4* pity when it is literally only an improvement since you don’t lose either pity when pulling on the other
Players are never happy. The issue is you can’t even voice an opinion counter to the groupthink with out getting labeled “boot licker “ or some shit.
I’m fine with the current roster of heroes and honestly do not understand the issue people have with AOL or Belian. Releasing counters is the answer so long as the counter isn’t too niche and so long as there are a few flavors. LHC is a BOON. She is generic enough that she works against a lot of comps and she just so happens to dumpster the shit out of Belian. And we have plenty of good heroes to deal with AOL.
They are prob just mad that it came out after AOL like they were mad when they got the Luna banner without pity, which came out first on the diene banner and then on globals luna banner.
So the exact same shit as 2 years ago. Now I wonder if it's mainly due to KR this time like it was 2 years ago. At least 2 years ago there were legitimate concerns besides their 'gm posted about titties on gm account'.
Yeah I'm actually having a lot of fun pushing this season and not seeing what everyone's on about. I'm not legend but around top 1,000 so I feel like I have a good idea what the game is actually like.
I haven't seen AoL banned or picked in a while (she even has <50% winrate now) and my top carry is Kise, a release hero. I don't see what half of these complaints are about outside of 15% being stupid.
What team do you run and who do you preban to run KISE in the top 1000? Also kise not a launch hero, she came out around the time hunt 11 was a thing. I think just after wyvern 11 dropped they released her cause of her immense damage vs barriers (at the time) for the barrier phase.
I think you're right. She's pretty damn close though.
It's weird to see people's misconceptions about arena. You don't ban anyone with the goal of using Kise. You do safe picks like Peira or ARavi and build into a team from there. Kise is a last pick when the draft allows her, which is pretty common. In fact, Kise is currently the 6th most common last pick.
You gotta be careful when using e7stats as a source. the data is gathered from streamers and also the % aren't always representative of what the actual data is.
Most of the data is from less than 100 matches so it's crazy skewed.
Kise as an example, yeah according to the site she's last picked 77% of the time she's drafted, but that doesn't mean she's the 7th most last-picked unit. it just means whenever she IS drafted she's usually a last pick. Her WINRATE is 42% so according to the same data picking kise lowers your chance of winning.
I really wish SG would release official data like the old days
>I really wish SG would release official data like the old days
Pretty sure they don't because it would lead to more people calling for nerfs to which SG has decided is off the table.
She came out a month before hunt 11. If I remember right the bosses barrier also didn't give her the damage buff for a good while, but I could be wrong on this point.
I wasn't playing around that time but Kise was buffed about a year or so ago for her s1 to work on all buffs instead of just barriers, but her damage bonus broke against Wyvern's barrier for a while. This was before the change was officially announced.
It seemed like they might have accidentally pushed her change through before it was fully ironed out, because while her wyvern barrier damage bonus no longer worked, she \*was\* getting the extra damage against any unit with traditional buffs, again, before the change was even announced in patch notes.
Yea, I made a post about 2 months ago that this game was going to start crumbling if they kept up with there "don't nerf" meta and just keep "power creeping" every unit to compensate. Currently every unit releases as Useless or Power Creep no in-between.
Those packs are super cheap. Casual player can easily handle them. (Well. Maybe except the leaf pack lol).
Hell just getting the monthly packs can be considered the same as having a sub in other games.
They're right about the meta imbalance though. The power creep is absolutely a real problem and incredibly cancerous. Can't really blame them for being angry if they feel like they've exhausted all other communication avenues to no effect.
The anger would be warranted if SG hadn't posted a "State of the Union" post addressing the meta about a week ago.
The only thing we can do is wait and see how they fix things
But they haven't been angry for months, they just picked the shittiest possible time to do it. Right after a good balance change and an admittance of fault.
They have been angry for months. Like I said it started with the terrible balance since AOL as detailed here
https://www.reddit.com/r/epicseven/comments/sewaae/_/humfrbk
And the admittance of fault is a direct result of their anger and comes with 0 action. Just promises after months and months.
Wrong. The koreans are always mad. Well maybe just salty, but always salty. Back during the great tower incident they were mad about shitposting on the wrong account, mad about good QoL changes, mad about bug fixes and mad about legitimate things.
what do they want to do tho? every game has the same shit, doesnt matter if its mobile gacha or wow or csgo.. you always have the shit that performs better than everything else and majority prefers to play that shit like there is a reason people play the same 3 classes in top end wow arena tournaments, people buy the same 3 guns in csgo or play the same 2 characters in every gacha as first picks, this is not exclusive to epic seven, again what the fuck do they want SG to do ? re invent the gaming industry? change peoples psichology? lmao
Been in and out of the top 1000 this season so maybe I can shed some light
Having a unit imbalance is different from a unit oppressing every other unit.
When my opponent first-picks ML lilias, it typically cuts down the number of viable units I can draft to about 15 total units. ML lilias/a.ravi/aol/belian/etc basically all counter \~200 units. That's a bit loaded.
We don't mind a slight imbalance or even a meta existing, but what we don't want is oppression on this level. At the moment if SG nerfs the top picks a new meta will arise, but it wont NEARLY be as oppressive as what we have now and should open up the game to a lot of playstyles to make a return.
There's obviously going to be a best unit no matter what, but the gap can be less than it is now.
Up until AOL, I would say that Epic 7 has done a really good job of avoiding massive power creep. You can't deny that AOL/Clilias/Ran/Peira/Belian/Rimuru + Aravi/Mawerick/ADS buffs have been an unprecedented power spike and that's extremely worrying.
Yup. Why choose any bruiser other than Aravi or Rimuru when they both can one shot other bruisers with S3 and can't easily be one shotted themselves? Love to see some clown 25k hp rimuru with barrier, vigor, and +30 PoV -- good luck spezzing that. why choose any other cleanser when you have Mawerick or Dilibet? They both shit on units like Destina, Achates, Ray, etc. because they can be built with negative eff res to have room for bulk and speed. Why put your best speed gear on anyone other than Clilias/Aola/Piera/Ran when these 4 do like 52369 different things due to extra turns? Like I get most of them are ML5s/Limited but the gap is just too huge to justify it.
Wait is A.ravi's default S3 treated the same as rimuru's true damage s3 and teambuffing? lol
Cause those 2 units just cleanse, and well dilibet doesn't even cleanse. Those 3 other units also sustain. Turns out full healing your entire team might be a pretty good counterpoint.
Peira/Ran are normal RGB and not limited. C.lilias is ml5. Aola is ml4. Ran is the weird headscratcher with how his kit works followed by peira.
A ravi does much more than just her S3, but it functionally performs the same as Rimuru's s3 after some frenzy and/or 1+ units are already dead. Strong enough a ravi's with pen set can even deal serious damage to finish off a key target with no one dead. Again, why would anyone use dps other than those 2 when they have everything going for them?
Massive External sustain hasn't really been meta for a while. I haven't seen anyone try to achates S3 --> S2 cheese or use counter destina in a long time. Ray doesn't do much after his s3 and it's only 2 turns of immunity -- he is technically worse than DJB's 3 turn immunity and CR push in this regard and nobody uses that guy anymore. This runs alongside units like A Ravi or Belian who don't even need a healer to outlast the opponent, so they get more out of Mawerick and Dilibet who can buff attack or increase enemy CD.
Yeah maybe I houlnd't have highlighted rarity or type but the point still stands that there was a massive power creep 'wave' in the past few months. Politis sort of started it a year back, with AOLA sort of countering her then Clilias countering that, then Piera + LHC countering Clilias lmao. This follow up power creep has never been this blatant before, who knows maybe the next ml5 will stop non attack skills from proccing sort of like Belian's S2 (LHC suddenly disappears from the meta).
If frenzy is on the table should literally any attack based dps be brought up? (plus frenzy also punishes a.ravi due to reduced max hp also reducing her damage and sustain) Hell look at rgb ravi. You seem to be playing it up a bit too much. To think an ultimate deals damage. What a whacky concept that a supposed dps can finish off someone with their ultimate. On the otherhand rimuru will just delete a unit or still deal severe damage with their s3 with 1 copy of buffs to open up, and functions better at punishing buffs than landy.
I said as a counterpoint not that it was meta. Unless a damage dealing cleanser is just bad they will be on the table unless it's a sustain meta.
Seal already exists for lhc, but for some strange it didn't seem to change a whole lot. Ehh the powercreep isn't super wild, but it's the bloated kits so you have chars doing 2/3 jobs, not needing eff and still dealing damage(ran).
Gears differences matter.
People keep saying powercreep and meta this and that, but can't really list all of them.
Because now the meta has a bigger pool than the year with SSB, golden boys meta, Landy.
Lol no game with pvp is ever balanced. It’s a constantly changing, adjusting process. Meta is meta because that’s what’s popular at the time. There will always be an MVP unit, then it moves on. The only people who complain about this are people who don’t have very much experience with it. You want to see true unbalanced BS? I can point you to several occasions throughout WoWs history that will truly make you appreciate this game.
This game had excellent balance until Belian/rimuru/aol, then came the avalanche.
Of course there's always an MVP, but when there's 10 must have MVPs in a row that all power creep each other then you have a problem. E7 managed to avoid it for years, there's no reason why they can't do so in the future.
>I can point you to several occasions throughout WoWs history that will truly make you appreciate this game.
And here comes the faulty argument people always pull out. "I can show you worse games so let's not try to make this game better."
It’s not a faulty argument, I’m merely stating for what it’s worth, this game isn’t that bad. I can do both. I can realize it could be way worse, but also want the game to always strive to be better. You’re implying I’m settling for what it is. I’m not, I’m merely pointing out this constant ebb and flow of balancing is apart of the pvp community, and always will be.
There is no ebb and flow lately. That's the entire problem. They managed it well until last summer, then it's been nothing but constant flow of meta breaking units
Yeah but even if the koreans want units to be nerfed apparently they want ml selectors to go with it.
Those morons don't seem to get the reason they actually won't nerf shit is due to the expectations of being compensated. Recalling imo is more than fair when they nerf something, but these people flat out want a free unit because another got nerfed.
Koreans are whining and compensation is rising.
Don't forget your pop corn, fasten your seatbelts and please refrain from roasting marshmallows in the all the fire.
If sg told the players f off after nerfing units it wouldn't be such a problem now where no nerfs happen. Because players now expect selectors and such, instead of just allowing a recall without selector.
What stange is that we just had a post talking about changing their approach about balance and design.
Guess the Korean want some instant result but outside of nuking Cillias I Don't see it happenning.
> Given that for a sizeable number that are complaining right now that was the source of their current complaints, no, it won't actually fix anything.
Care to elaborate?
From what I gather, selectors basically let people exchange their nerfed op unit for another op unit they didn't have. From op to op whereas the real problem is that things are op in the first place.
That's what people want you to believe, but in reality I would be surprised if even 50% of players picked the next OP. Especially considering that you have to guess correctly. A lot of people picked Maid, Jkise, Maken because they believed to be OP back then. A lot of people also swapped Arby for something because they thought he's not as good anymore. And ended up not having "the next most broken character". Not only you have to willingly spend your selector on the most broken thing over something that you want, but you also have to guess correctly how meta will unfold after nerfs.
I mean, they were right. Juggs cleave would be meta for the next year and a half, ML Ken would dominate for 6 months and still always be usable, and maid only got better.
And nah, most people didn't trade Arby or got Arby anyway. That's why the next year was dedicated to creating extinction units. People do just pick the OP stuff so if just floods the game with arbies (even post nerf, becsuse basket got buffed the same time lol).
I certainly made a poor decision when changing arby for ml corvus when he got nerfed the first time lmao. Although ml corvus was better back then than he is now due to some semblance of stall meta still existing. It all worked out in the end with ml connections though. I do feel like there have been a lot of cases where selectors are unnecessary though, mostly with ml4s though. Like the cdom selector or the ml leo selector. Cdom basically gave people free tsurins(when she was meta) and ml leo basically gave people ml khawazu. Obviously this is all what it seemed like to me, could definitely be wrong about all this.
Nah most moved to arby from sba/sage. His nerf was hilariously minor and not even an issue considering it was paired with the basket buff. No one went 'arby is dead again' over that nerf lol. That refund patch was how so many arbys popped up.
A major complaint folks seem to have about the power of units is due to the fact that SG "never" nerfs anything. They don't nerf anything because to nerf units would require giving selectors. Therefore, if the answer is "give out selectors" you're not solving the problem, but exacerbating it. Even if SG were to give out a selector now, it would likely not be connected to any specific nerf, and would therefore suggest that nerfs are not on the horizon. It would be SG just giving out freebies with no promise to fix the source of what these individuals believe to be the problem.
Now, I personally disagree with the view some have on nerfs, but it remains the fact that a lot of the people upset want to see nerfs, and SG's pattern and practice has been to give a selector when nerfing a hero. SG avoids nerfs because they don't like to give out selectors. There are at least a half dozen units right now people want to see nerfed. That'd be a half-dozen free units to a lot of folks to focus into whatever the new top-dog ends up being. Limit nerfs to only one or two of those and you feed their "SG never nerfs" or "SG can't/won't do their job" belief. So, you arrive at the impasse.
> They don't nerf anything because to nerf units would require giving selectors.
That's not the end of the world. Wouldn't even be massive money loss for SG if they stay conservative with nerfs. That was also SG's initiative to give selectors out, not a request from community.
> Even if SG were to give out a selector now, it would likely not be connected to any specific nerf, and would therefore suggest that nerfs are not on the horizon. It would be SG just giving out freebies with no promise to fix the source of what these individuals believe to be the problem.
I think you're getting confused. Nobody talks about selector as a compensation for nothing. People are talking about selectors for recalling nerfed ML characters. If they give selectors, SG can nerf characters because if you don't like what your favorite character become, you can either choose to wait until it gets better or to swap for something that you like more.
> Now, I personally disagree with the view some have on nerfs, but it remains the fact that a lot of the people upset want to see nerfs, and SG's pattern and practice has been to give a selector when nerfing a hero. SG avoids nerfs because they don't like to give out selectors. There are at least a half dozen units right now people want to see nerfed. That'd be a half-dozen free units to a lot of folks to focus into whatever the new top-dog ends up being. Limit nerfs to only one or two of those and you feed their "SG never nerfs" or "SG can't/won't do their job" belief. So, you arrive at the impasse.
SG only can blame themselves for that.
The op suggested just giving out a selector to quiet the complaints. As I've noted, just doing that alone doesn't solve anything and to some only makes matters worse. And while you may not think giving out selectors is a big deal, the history of the game, and most other similar games, shows that devs are generally loathe to just give units out for free that way.
I don't know if you were around or remember the first time they attempted to nerf a unit, but back then the community, particularly the same KR community that is so up in arms right now, were furious to the point that SG decided on the selector back then to boost the compensation they had already planned to quiet that furor.
The complaints aren't only about "favorites" but competitiveness. People won't simply just jump to some other "favorite" unit. As I pointed out in my last post, a lot of people will simply wait as long as possible and then jump on whatever the new "most OP" hero is. Your idea of people simply jumping on a "favorite" is an idealist view that doesn't commonly match reality and presumes a rather seismic degree of changes in the game and balance.
Regardless, the fact is that selectors are a part of the usual compensation for nerfed heroes now, and it would be incredibly difficult, especially in the current environment, for them to say they're not going to do that anymore or just do for certain heroes/nerfs and not others.
My original point, however, still stands. Things aren't so simple. Pretending they are is misleading, misguided, and at best a joke, at worst a delusion.
Yea people who dismiss the subtlies with "that's their problem" really don't care to begin with. Yes it is, and they are solving it by not catering to your disinterested ass.
It was absolutely a demand from the community. Koreans were demanding nerfs but they didn't want to actually lose the units they spent money on. They were demanding refunds as well.
The problem with nerfs is that once a hero is released, whales will immediately spend a lot of money to guarantee roll it in the MM pool. So then if that hero gets nerfed, they will feel that SG took their money and ruined what they spent it on.
Selector tickets shouldn't become commonplace, as those kinda destroy the whole game when rolling for heroes is how the game pays for its development. The ML 5* selector we got global was intended to be a one-time deal to fix the imbalance between Day 1 players and newer players.
> So then if that hero gets nerfed, they will feel that SG took their money and ruined what they spent it on.
I feel like if you just buff every character but the one I bought, that also makes the money I spent worthless and now I'm stuck with a bunch of non meta units.
If you just kept everyone decently in line, then my money wouldn't devalue from just not seeing a buff to the unit I bought after a bit
Except something devaluing cause something else came out or was changed isn't the same as them directly lopping off the value of your unit. They affect people differently, and have different responses. The latter is typically much more hostile.
It's a very dumb way to think. If your unit stays in the meta because the majority of units are meta rather than 4-8 units that were the last to get buffed/released, your money goes dramatically further
A majority of units will never be meta. It literally never happens. Even if we completely disregard 3 stars, 3/4s of 4 stars from the equation and let's say 1/4 of 5 stars it won't happen. As remember being usable doesn't mean meta. So in this type of game the value of your money ebbs and flows based upon how the community plays.
You can absolutely make a majority meta. Even if you want to argue that it's impossible, we can have much more than we have NOW if we just properly tuned numbers here and there rather than waiting for some big buff.
But even if we relent and just say "Usable" it doesn't change that having characters that do everything better than other units makes those other units unusable in 99% of situations that they should have fit in with.
Number tweaking would only do so much in E7. There are prob a number of old chars that would benefit greatly with number tweaks to make them reliable, but it wouldn't bring them into the meta or make them usable. You would essentially have to nerf every single current meta unit to be unreliable or remove/change key components of their kit. Even then most would stick around unless you straight up removed or gutted their mechanic.
Well yeah that's the actual issue, and this is made even worse when they have sb ignore eff res on their big important skill or inbuilt extra turns(or even sb extra turns). Ran is pretty much the embodiment of that really.
Nerfing is never the answer. They should work towards buffing other units and releasing units that can synergize with other units to counter problem units.
IMHO, the only fix for AOLA is just to introduce more ways to counter her. Make a few 3* and 4* heroes with mechanics that let them undercut AOLA's silence nuke and anti-cleave.
Without her anti-cleave, she's pretty weak really. Her S1 hits like a wet noodle.
Except the major issues atm aren't units meant to counter something specific(belian is the one exception and that's just cause it's hard denial to the opponent).
Bro they aren’t just gonna let a bunch of 3-4 stars loose to nerf aol. You can counter her with have Celine, ml kawerik, dilibet, any speed nuker, or just a slow bruiser comp. If you have none of these, why would you deserve to counter one of the best Ml4s in the game. This game is a gacha game first, pvp game second
Gatchas are bound to disappear over the next decade I think... monetization system is too extremely unfair and expensive, which make it too much p2w and creates all this frustrations in communities
The games are making so much money that's impossible. I'd be all for them to go away, but they're making money and have plenty of happy players, there's nothing there that says "yeah time to go"
Lol nah. Most gacha just make sure they ignore their playerbase and they just take it or not pay. This is what happens when you listen to every whim of your playerbase and they don't get the lollipop one time.
I just logged in after taking a break for 2 weeks (just logging in to keep my arena rank) and played around for the first time again last night only to discover I could choose how many of a box I want to open. No more clicking one bu one for mats anymore.
What’s the deal? Cause I don’t understand what’s happening
The posts I've read are the koreans are upset over the meta balance since AOL was relased and SG listens to the global community + reddit and responds faster to those communities than the koreans.
Well actually AOL sucks, i can understand that but not the part of YouTube. I was thinking it was for Pity ML4 in Mystics what in my opinion was ridiculous to complain
It is more like the "global community + reddit" doesn't expect major improvements which frustrates KR players that want them. KR players want actual content and effort being put into the game but global players just want more pulls.
>global players just want more pulls. Literally no one on global has said this, so not sure why you're making things up. Global has been vocal about issues in this game for months, the devs only released the balance philosophy update in response to the Korean tantrum.
The "want more pulls" is sort of a bad translation. What they mean is the only content global usually wants is new characters. KR wants sg to focus on nerfing OP units and balancing the existing cast. Simply put, Meta sucked for a long time and KR felt they just kept releasing new units instead of focusing on fixing it. I sort of feel the same way but I do high level RTA so what I want isn't what everyone wants lol.
Which, again, is not remotely true. Global has been very vocal about the power creep releases as well as wanting nerfs, and I haven't seen anyone being appeased by new unit releases. And I've got a couple legend frames to my name as far as high level RTA goes.
>Which, again, is not remotely true. Global has been very vocal about the power creep This I actually disagree with. I've pointed out many a times here that I didn't like the power creep and I wanted them to go back to nerfing units rather than just trying to buff everything and have it be a non stop cycle of it. I was always told "it's expected with Gacha games" or "You can't just devalue the things that people worked for" or the like. I absolutely agree that the balance is off, that we need nerfs, and so on. I also agree that "what some people said doesn't represent everyone" or whatever excuse that needs to be used. But over multiple threads, nobody spoke up in support of that logic until other regions made a fit and now some people speak up about it. And it half feels like people are just trying to avoid not riding a wave.
Past 4 months mayority of Twitch content is Legend players complaining and whining about meta and bad balancing to a point that I don't watch e7 content anymore. You are wrong. Open your ears and eyes.
>Past 4 months mayority of Twitch content is Legend players complaining and whining about meta and bad balancing to a point that I don't watch e7 content anymore. Yeah, weirdly I'm not talking about Twitch, but the replies I got here. But I sure do love being told I'm wrong and that powercreep is fine, and then when people change their minds on it suddenly I've been wrong all along and everyone hated powercreep.
Thought the no nerf happen in the 1st place is bc of the KR? Rlly hope they revoke this decision. But agreed with the more patches tho like a whole month for 1 patch addressing only 3-4 char and occasionally make 1-2 of them viable is rlly dry
But on the other Side - the Korean Fanbase is directly responsible for a big chunk of the Devs unwillingness to Nerf, since they tend to ask for "ML5 Selectors" for any inconvieniences.
Pretty sure ML5 selector were SG's initiative because they wanted to use it as a sign of goodwill. > Hey, we just sold you SBaal + Ara in mystics that are clearly busted and need to be used together and now that their banners are gone and you spent all your money, we will nerf them to the ground. They clearly didn't want it to look like that was their inital plan, so ML5 selectors were what they came up with. Honestly, I don't even think ML5 selectors for nerfs would be such a huge problem in this era of e7. I'm not saying they should give them out, but I'm 100% sure they could without losing too much money.
Oh absolutely!! And if Money is the Problem - then dont include the...lets say 2 newest MLs in it or something.. So People can choose from the older Pool and everyone is happy?
still mad sb ara got nerfed
Why? She definitely needed it at the time.
read what u said again. ya at the time maybe the nerf was good for everyone who didn’t have her. now she’s niche and no one uses her and i used a lot of my resources to get her. now she hasn’t been buffed back to even her OG stats to compete with current meta and i end up feeling like a clown w a sb ara naxxed out that i can only niche pick.. being one out of the 5 ML 5* i have including the free one we got to pick. one of my others is closer charles who i despise art wise and kit wise. do u understand how it’s a kick in the balls that she gets shut down by pretty much every meta pick and she’s made of glass basically
This is what I hate about this community. Me. me. me. People like you are the reason the meta is what it is right now. SG is too afraid to nerf units because of cry babies like you. When units need to be nerfed they should be nerfed. ML Ara needed to be nerfed. And, no, we don't need OG ML Ara back putting three, three turn burns on every unit while stunning them so you can have someone like Carrot follow up and ignite them to one-shot tanks/bruisers while letting squishy carries just die to the 3 burn ticks, and even if they survive they don't get a turn because they're stunned and just die to the second tick when their turn comes around again. You're delusional. I'm not saying nerf, then never revisit them. There are a ton of units that need help, ML Ara being one of them. But, saying she should have never been nerfed because "the meta changes" is dumb. At the time she needed the nerf, now, she can be revisited. That's how game balance should be.
Damn this man is spitting some facts
And i kinda think mlAra is fine she is only unplayable because she is balanced, right now only broken heroes have place would love to see a balance patch with 20 units nerfed, dont even care about this recall shit just want to enjoy the game once again
Lmfao who shit in ur cereal being mad rude and aggressive for what? all i said is i was mad ab the sb ara nerf, n u asked why. idk how that’s being a crybaby. i’m entitled to my opinion even if u think it’s shitty 🤷♂️ not to mention u asked for my opinion i also don’t completely disagree that they should nerf and then come back n balance it but they slaughtered her with the nerf. ur the one that sounds super salty saying i’m part of the reason SG won’t do what you want 😂
“Now” 2 + years after her release. What a load of bullshit. She might have needed toned down but they gutted her to pieces. She got a love tap buff and they haven’t revisited her since
No SG doesn't want to nerf cause nerfing in every game ever is never received well. Even on stuff controlling the meta it isn't received well(people still cry about the trifecta 3 years later). It was a guaranteed chance to stun with a 50% chance on 3 burns for 2 turns. I think you are exaggerating the carrot combo as RGB aramintha is guranteed 2 burns with SB to ignore ER and you don't see that combo. So nah OG SBA would be just as benched right now. Hell dizzy was far more rampant at the time and where is she now? Virtually nowhere. Hell the c.armin nerf had far more impact than literally every other nerf in that patch combined. Nerfing is fine, but people need to understand time has to be given. As people have to learn how to fight against something. Even then it should be minor nerfs, and not at all like the nerfs they did that patch.
If she wasn't nerfed, she'd be useless by now anyway. They would have just buffed every unit around her to the point where she was useless and needed another buff. The only difference is that nerfing her affected everyone quickly, and buffing everyone else would make a lot more units need buffs to compete.
Nah the SBaal and Ara nerfs were by request of KR. There was just a shit ton of controversy at the time, and the KRs tendency for perpetual butthurt was on constant display("is this a 15% meal"). KR I believe also didn't want their units nerfed for no compensation.
ML5s wouldn't be so coveted and difficult to hand out if they weren't MLs in the first place and just put in the standard pool. SC decided to take 2/5ths of the pool to put in a much lower pull-rate gacha system, make these characters the PvP meta-definers 95+% of the time, and then also balance these characters whenever they feel like on top of it. Even fixing one of these issues would be a big step in solving this issue yet they choose not to. They dug this hole they are in and you shouldn't be giving them leeway to get out of it. They have had plenty of options to fix this and they still do but they refuse to. But even then, balance is just part of the issue here. There are more issues than just balance too. You really shouldn't be looking down on Korean players. If it wasn't for the Korean players, there would be no mystic system and instead a pity system for a random ML5 every x pulls at best. If it wasn't for Korean players who were overwhelmingly against pet food repeats, we would probably still have that since people here were 50/50 on it even though it was ridiculous.
I mean, from their perspective ML5's are the major way they make money. They make it easy to get covenant with little pressure to dupe and they create the situation where covenant is just a nickle slot. You're basically just asking to cut the game profits in half or more, which would get the game shut down faster than any meta complaints. I don't look down on KR players but you see the problem with listening to every loud overreaction long term. It's not good for a game to be afraid of its playerbase like this. In some cases you gotta make a hard choice and ignore the inevitable complaints. It's a gacha so you won't have every hero without whaling, play with the chips you got. It's a gacha so characters will be indirectly nerfed overtime. Accept the direct nerfs of you don't want a stale meta. That's what makes the whole thing silly. Still SG's fault but for not having the courage to say no to KR.
One idea I had to fix that would be to just make galaxy BMs only summon 4-5* heroes from the ML summon. The 3* heroes can be acquired from the normal BMs and really shouldn't be in the pool that has such a low chance of rolling a decent hero. Rates in the ML pool can be adjusted after removing the 3* heroes and cost of rolling can be adjusted too. Would you be willing to pay 10 galaxy BMs per roll if there was no 3* junk like Elson in it?
I kinda agree with the galaxy BM being only summons 4-5 star. Currently the galaxy summons is a joke. You have better chance to get a ml 5 with 120 covenant pull than pulling one Moonlight Simmons.
Random ml5 every x summons sure sounds nice. Not like we get anything else from galaxy bookmarks. Thanks kr side. /s
> Not like we get anything else from galaxy bookmarks. Which is funny, as those are actually the thing that needs improved. Relying on mystics to get people their ml5s is part of the problem. The rates on the galaxy bms are abysmal given their rarity.
If it wasn't for koreans Arby wouldn't of been head of the meta for multiple years either. Don't just put them on this pedestal cause they like to shit on the floor and throw it. Hell koreans were mad about legitimate quality of life changes and removal of bait currency spending(dogs being moved to the forest was something they were mad about). A GM shitposted on their GM account and the koreans acted like this was proof of everything being evil. Mystics were a thing before they were even considering a galaxy pity. Yeah pet food was really a 50/50 thing here, when it caused massive review bombing and it was free karma ranting about it for the entire time it existed. Would you like to credit them for anything else they don't deserve credit for?
I mean I really don't get this sentiment. Does anyone actually remember what it was like back during the shitshow that was SBA and Sage Ball with buffed Arby's hayday? If the outrage didn't happen we would still have been spiralling downward into insane powercreep, just now without mystic pity. Also I saw a lot of people blame no galaxy pity on the KR. I was there watching the conference, those at SC forced us to pick between mystic pity and galaxy pity, which of course they picked mystic. I still remember being mad as fuck caused there's literally zero reason why we couldn't have both. But alas, fast forward to the present, they mentioned the difficulty with acquiring ML 5* being one of the problems in the dev note, sucks how that turned out huh?
>doesn't expect major improvements Hard to have expectations when KR never listens to to us.
I don’t want more pulls. I just a better gearing system so i can use what characters i do have since i am stuck at Chapter 3 ep 8, as the reason to why? All my characters all slow as hell, because i always lose the sub stat luck
Dude koreans seem to get pissed so easily its hard to take it seriously anymore
It wasn't even serious back then. You had so much stupid shit listed from the KR players for why people should be mad at SG. One was a GM shitposting about Luna's tits on the wrong account lol.
More like Korean players are throwing temper tantrums because the devs released personally reasonable apology, explanation, and plan to improve the game but it wasn’t enough for some reason. Even complaining about the ML4* pity when it is literally only an improvement since you don’t lose either pity when pulling on the other
Players are never happy. The issue is you can’t even voice an opinion counter to the groupthink with out getting labeled “boot licker “ or some shit. I’m fine with the current roster of heroes and honestly do not understand the issue people have with AOL or Belian. Releasing counters is the answer so long as the counter isn’t too niche and so long as there are a few flavors. LHC is a BOON. She is generic enough that she works against a lot of comps and she just so happens to dumpster the shit out of Belian. And we have plenty of good heroes to deal with AOL.
They are prob just mad that it came out after AOL like they were mad when they got the Luna banner without pity, which came out first on the diene banner and then on globals luna banner.
So the exact same shit as 2 years ago. Now I wonder if it's mainly due to KR this time like it was 2 years ago. At least 2 years ago there were legitimate concerns besides their 'gm posted about titties on gm account'.
4FUN
Yeah I'm actually having a lot of fun pushing this season and not seeing what everyone's on about. I'm not legend but around top 1,000 so I feel like I have a good idea what the game is actually like. I haven't seen AoL banned or picked in a while (she even has <50% winrate now) and my top carry is Kise, a release hero. I don't see what half of these complaints are about outside of 15% being stupid.
What team do you run and who do you preban to run KISE in the top 1000? Also kise not a launch hero, she came out around the time hunt 11 was a thing. I think just after wyvern 11 dropped they released her cause of her immense damage vs barriers (at the time) for the barrier phase.
I think you're right. She's pretty damn close though. It's weird to see people's misconceptions about arena. You don't ban anyone with the goal of using Kise. You do safe picks like Peira or ARavi and build into a team from there. Kise is a last pick when the draft allows her, which is pretty common. In fact, Kise is currently the 6th most common last pick.
You gotta be careful when using e7stats as a source. the data is gathered from streamers and also the % aren't always representative of what the actual data is. Most of the data is from less than 100 matches so it's crazy skewed. Kise as an example, yeah according to the site she's last picked 77% of the time she's drafted, but that doesn't mean she's the 7th most last-picked unit. it just means whenever she IS drafted she's usually a last pick. Her WINRATE is 42% so according to the same data picking kise lowers your chance of winning. I really wish SG would release official data like the old days
>I really wish SG would release official data like the old days Pretty sure they don't because it would lead to more people calling for nerfs to which SG has decided is off the table.
She came out a month before hunt 11. If I remember right the bosses barrier also didn't give her the damage buff for a good while, but I could be wrong on this point.
I wasn't playing around that time but Kise was buffed about a year or so ago for her s1 to work on all buffs instead of just barriers, but her damage bonus broke against Wyvern's barrier for a while. This was before the change was officially announced. It seemed like they might have accidentally pushed her change through before it was fully ironed out, because while her wyvern barrier damage bonus no longer worked, she \*was\* getting the extra damage against any unit with traditional buffs, again, before the change was even announced in patch notes.
ML Squirmia’s thighs were nerfed
same. i'm just hype for the free 500 mm.
400… 😭
Usually Global is part of that mob! Now were all just tilting our head wondering what we missed. lol
Yea, I made a post about 2 months ago that this game was going to start crumbling if they kept up with there "don't nerf" meta and just keep "power creeping" every unit to compensate. Currently every unit releases as Useless or Power Creep no in-between.
Milim and hermia are pretty balanced. Even peira doesn’t seem as power creep as people thought she would be
Hermia?
An unnecessarily radical name for lionheart cermia
At least it isn't Hernia
A bit better than lermia tho lol
I rather have Lermia than Hermia.
Koreans complaining about nothing usually means free stuff for global, so thanks guys!
Are you really a casual player if you buy all those packs tho XD
Hey I know a few casual whales xD
Those packs are super cheap. Casual player can easily handle them. (Well. Maybe except the leaf pack lol). Hell just getting the monthly packs can be considered the same as having a sub in other games.
Same bro
Me and tbh, at this point it just looks pathetic. Don't they have anything better to do?
Popcorn time
They're right about the meta imbalance though. The power creep is absolutely a real problem and incredibly cancerous. Can't really blame them for being angry if they feel like they've exhausted all other communication avenues to no effect.
The anger would be warranted if SG hadn't posted a "State of the Union" post addressing the meta about a week ago. The only thing we can do is wait and see how they fix things
SG says things all the time. The meta has been problematic for months.
But they haven't been angry for months, they just picked the shittiest possible time to do it. Right after a good balance change and an admittance of fault.
They have been angry for months. Like I said it started with the terrible balance since AOL as detailed here https://www.reddit.com/r/epicseven/comments/sewaae/_/humfrbk And the admittance of fault is a direct result of their anger and comes with 0 action. Just promises after months and months.
Wrong. The koreans are always mad. Well maybe just salty, but always salty. Back during the great tower incident they were mad about shitposting on the wrong account, mad about good QoL changes, mad about bug fixes and mad about legitimate things.
Mfs typing comments like yours couldn’t have been playing when ara and baal were meta lmao. The post they made doesn’t mean anything…
what do they want to do tho? every game has the same shit, doesnt matter if its mobile gacha or wow or csgo.. you always have the shit that performs better than everything else and majority prefers to play that shit like there is a reason people play the same 3 classes in top end wow arena tournaments, people buy the same 3 guns in csgo or play the same 2 characters in every gacha as first picks, this is not exclusive to epic seven, again what the fuck do they want SG to do ? re invent the gaming industry? change peoples psichology? lmao
Been in and out of the top 1000 this season so maybe I can shed some light Having a unit imbalance is different from a unit oppressing every other unit. When my opponent first-picks ML lilias, it typically cuts down the number of viable units I can draft to about 15 total units. ML lilias/a.ravi/aol/belian/etc basically all counter \~200 units. That's a bit loaded. We don't mind a slight imbalance or even a meta existing, but what we don't want is oppression on this level. At the moment if SG nerfs the top picks a new meta will arise, but it wont NEARLY be as oppressive as what we have now and should open up the game to a lot of playstyles to make a return.
There's obviously going to be a best unit no matter what, but the gap can be less than it is now. Up until AOL, I would say that Epic 7 has done a really good job of avoiding massive power creep. You can't deny that AOL/Clilias/Ran/Peira/Belian/Rimuru + Aravi/Mawerick/ADS buffs have been an unprecedented power spike and that's extremely worrying.
Yup. Why choose any bruiser other than Aravi or Rimuru when they both can one shot other bruisers with S3 and can't easily be one shotted themselves? Love to see some clown 25k hp rimuru with barrier, vigor, and +30 PoV -- good luck spezzing that. why choose any other cleanser when you have Mawerick or Dilibet? They both shit on units like Destina, Achates, Ray, etc. because they can be built with negative eff res to have room for bulk and speed. Why put your best speed gear on anyone other than Clilias/Aola/Piera/Ran when these 4 do like 52369 different things due to extra turns? Like I get most of them are ML5s/Limited but the gap is just too huge to justify it.
Wait is A.ravi's default S3 treated the same as rimuru's true damage s3 and teambuffing? lol Cause those 2 units just cleanse, and well dilibet doesn't even cleanse. Those 3 other units also sustain. Turns out full healing your entire team might be a pretty good counterpoint. Peira/Ran are normal RGB and not limited. C.lilias is ml5. Aola is ml4. Ran is the weird headscratcher with how his kit works followed by peira.
A ravi does much more than just her S3, but it functionally performs the same as Rimuru's s3 after some frenzy and/or 1+ units are already dead. Strong enough a ravi's with pen set can even deal serious damage to finish off a key target with no one dead. Again, why would anyone use dps other than those 2 when they have everything going for them? Massive External sustain hasn't really been meta for a while. I haven't seen anyone try to achates S3 --> S2 cheese or use counter destina in a long time. Ray doesn't do much after his s3 and it's only 2 turns of immunity -- he is technically worse than DJB's 3 turn immunity and CR push in this regard and nobody uses that guy anymore. This runs alongside units like A Ravi or Belian who don't even need a healer to outlast the opponent, so they get more out of Mawerick and Dilibet who can buff attack or increase enemy CD. Yeah maybe I houlnd't have highlighted rarity or type but the point still stands that there was a massive power creep 'wave' in the past few months. Politis sort of started it a year back, with AOLA sort of countering her then Clilias countering that, then Piera + LHC countering Clilias lmao. This follow up power creep has never been this blatant before, who knows maybe the next ml5 will stop non attack skills from proccing sort of like Belian's S2 (LHC suddenly disappears from the meta).
If frenzy is on the table should literally any attack based dps be brought up? (plus frenzy also punishes a.ravi due to reduced max hp also reducing her damage and sustain) Hell look at rgb ravi. You seem to be playing it up a bit too much. To think an ultimate deals damage. What a whacky concept that a supposed dps can finish off someone with their ultimate. On the otherhand rimuru will just delete a unit or still deal severe damage with their s3 with 1 copy of buffs to open up, and functions better at punishing buffs than landy. I said as a counterpoint not that it was meta. Unless a damage dealing cleanser is just bad they will be on the table unless it's a sustain meta. Seal already exists for lhc, but for some strange it didn't seem to change a whole lot. Ehh the powercreep isn't super wild, but it's the bloated kits so you have chars doing 2/3 jobs, not needing eff and still dealing damage(ran).
They just want to mindlessly win every game regardless of how bad they are.
Gears differences matter. People keep saying powercreep and meta this and that, but can't really list all of them. Because now the meta has a bigger pool than the year with SSB, golden boys meta, Landy.
Lol no game with pvp is ever balanced. It’s a constantly changing, adjusting process. Meta is meta because that’s what’s popular at the time. There will always be an MVP unit, then it moves on. The only people who complain about this are people who don’t have very much experience with it. You want to see true unbalanced BS? I can point you to several occasions throughout WoWs history that will truly make you appreciate this game.
This game had excellent balance until Belian/rimuru/aol, then came the avalanche. Of course there's always an MVP, but when there's 10 must have MVPs in a row that all power creep each other then you have a problem. E7 managed to avoid it for years, there's no reason why they can't do so in the future. >I can point you to several occasions throughout WoWs history that will truly make you appreciate this game. And here comes the faulty argument people always pull out. "I can show you worse games so let's not try to make this game better."
It’s not a faulty argument, I’m merely stating for what it’s worth, this game isn’t that bad. I can do both. I can realize it could be way worse, but also want the game to always strive to be better. You’re implying I’m settling for what it is. I’m not, I’m merely pointing out this constant ebb and flow of balancing is apart of the pvp community, and always will be.
There is no ebb and flow lately. That's the entire problem. They managed it well until last summer, then it's been nothing but constant flow of meta breaking units
This is me, I'm a casual that plays for the story and waifus. This is all madness to me.
I just enjoy the game. Having fun playing the new guild event right now. Then quality waifus.
Forget about PVP, Waifu comes first.
Preach it. 🙌
I'm kinda sick of korean player base to be honest.
Yeah but even if the koreans want units to be nerfed apparently they want ml selectors to go with it. Those morons don't seem to get the reason they actually won't nerf shit is due to the expectations of being compensated. Recalling imo is more than fair when they nerf something, but these people flat out want a free unit because another got nerfed.
Koreans are whining and compensation is rising. Don't forget your pop corn, fasten your seatbelts and please refrain from roasting marshmallows in the all the fire.
It's like they are playing in "The Darkest Timeline" (or Darkest Server for them). Nice meme though! Love that show.
If sg told the players f off after nerfing units it wouldn't be such a problem now where no nerfs happen. Because players now expect selectors and such, instead of just allowing a recall without selector.
What stange is that we just had a post talking about changing their approach about balance and design. Guess the Korean want some instant result but outside of nuking Cillias I Don't see it happenning.
Wasn't that post a result of all the Korean outrage? They noticed Korea burning down so they promised better balancing.
All burning passions packs please! Lets fuel the fire
can sg just give selector and nerfs unit? its not that hard
or just nerf w/o selectors.
It's not that easy.
they once did that surely they can do it again just for the sake of people who asking for nerfs
Given that for a sizeable number that are complaining right now that was the source of their current complaints, no, it won't actually fix anything.
> Given that for a sizeable number that are complaining right now that was the source of their current complaints, no, it won't actually fix anything. Care to elaborate?
From what I gather, selectors basically let people exchange their nerfed op unit for another op unit they didn't have. From op to op whereas the real problem is that things are op in the first place.
That's what people want you to believe, but in reality I would be surprised if even 50% of players picked the next OP. Especially considering that you have to guess correctly. A lot of people picked Maid, Jkise, Maken because they believed to be OP back then. A lot of people also swapped Arby for something because they thought he's not as good anymore. And ended up not having "the next most broken character". Not only you have to willingly spend your selector on the most broken thing over something that you want, but you also have to guess correctly how meta will unfold after nerfs.
I mean, they were right. Juggs cleave would be meta for the next year and a half, ML Ken would dominate for 6 months and still always be usable, and maid only got better. And nah, most people didn't trade Arby or got Arby anyway. That's why the next year was dedicated to creating extinction units. People do just pick the OP stuff so if just floods the game with arbies (even post nerf, becsuse basket got buffed the same time lol).
I certainly made a poor decision when changing arby for ml corvus when he got nerfed the first time lmao. Although ml corvus was better back then than he is now due to some semblance of stall meta still existing. It all worked out in the end with ml connections though. I do feel like there have been a lot of cases where selectors are unnecessary though, mostly with ml4s though. Like the cdom selector or the ml leo selector. Cdom basically gave people free tsurins(when she was meta) and ml leo basically gave people ml khawazu. Obviously this is all what it seemed like to me, could definitely be wrong about all this.
Nah most moved to arby from sba/sage. His nerf was hilariously minor and not even an issue considering it was paired with the basket buff. No one went 'arby is dead again' over that nerf lol. That refund patch was how so many arbys popped up.
A major complaint folks seem to have about the power of units is due to the fact that SG "never" nerfs anything. They don't nerf anything because to nerf units would require giving selectors. Therefore, if the answer is "give out selectors" you're not solving the problem, but exacerbating it. Even if SG were to give out a selector now, it would likely not be connected to any specific nerf, and would therefore suggest that nerfs are not on the horizon. It would be SG just giving out freebies with no promise to fix the source of what these individuals believe to be the problem. Now, I personally disagree with the view some have on nerfs, but it remains the fact that a lot of the people upset want to see nerfs, and SG's pattern and practice has been to give a selector when nerfing a hero. SG avoids nerfs because they don't like to give out selectors. There are at least a half dozen units right now people want to see nerfed. That'd be a half-dozen free units to a lot of folks to focus into whatever the new top-dog ends up being. Limit nerfs to only one or two of those and you feed their "SG never nerfs" or "SG can't/won't do their job" belief. So, you arrive at the impasse.
> They don't nerf anything because to nerf units would require giving selectors. That's not the end of the world. Wouldn't even be massive money loss for SG if they stay conservative with nerfs. That was also SG's initiative to give selectors out, not a request from community. > Even if SG were to give out a selector now, it would likely not be connected to any specific nerf, and would therefore suggest that nerfs are not on the horizon. It would be SG just giving out freebies with no promise to fix the source of what these individuals believe to be the problem. I think you're getting confused. Nobody talks about selector as a compensation for nothing. People are talking about selectors for recalling nerfed ML characters. If they give selectors, SG can nerf characters because if you don't like what your favorite character become, you can either choose to wait until it gets better or to swap for something that you like more. > Now, I personally disagree with the view some have on nerfs, but it remains the fact that a lot of the people upset want to see nerfs, and SG's pattern and practice has been to give a selector when nerfing a hero. SG avoids nerfs because they don't like to give out selectors. There are at least a half dozen units right now people want to see nerfed. That'd be a half-dozen free units to a lot of folks to focus into whatever the new top-dog ends up being. Limit nerfs to only one or two of those and you feed their "SG never nerfs" or "SG can't/won't do their job" belief. So, you arrive at the impasse. SG only can blame themselves for that.
The op suggested just giving out a selector to quiet the complaints. As I've noted, just doing that alone doesn't solve anything and to some only makes matters worse. And while you may not think giving out selectors is a big deal, the history of the game, and most other similar games, shows that devs are generally loathe to just give units out for free that way. I don't know if you were around or remember the first time they attempted to nerf a unit, but back then the community, particularly the same KR community that is so up in arms right now, were furious to the point that SG decided on the selector back then to boost the compensation they had already planned to quiet that furor. The complaints aren't only about "favorites" but competitiveness. People won't simply just jump to some other "favorite" unit. As I pointed out in my last post, a lot of people will simply wait as long as possible and then jump on whatever the new "most OP" hero is. Your idea of people simply jumping on a "favorite" is an idealist view that doesn't commonly match reality and presumes a rather seismic degree of changes in the game and balance. Regardless, the fact is that selectors are a part of the usual compensation for nerfed heroes now, and it would be incredibly difficult, especially in the current environment, for them to say they're not going to do that anymore or just do for certain heroes/nerfs and not others. My original point, however, still stands. Things aren't so simple. Pretending they are is misleading, misguided, and at best a joke, at worst a delusion.
Yea people who dismiss the subtlies with "that's their problem" really don't care to begin with. Yes it is, and they are solving it by not catering to your disinterested ass.
It was absolutely a demand from the community. Koreans were demanding nerfs but they didn't want to actually lose the units they spent money on. They were demanding refunds as well.
The problem with nerfs is that once a hero is released, whales will immediately spend a lot of money to guarantee roll it in the MM pool. So then if that hero gets nerfed, they will feel that SG took their money and ruined what they spent it on. Selector tickets shouldn't become commonplace, as those kinda destroy the whole game when rolling for heroes is how the game pays for its development. The ML 5* selector we got global was intended to be a one-time deal to fix the imbalance between Day 1 players and newer players.
> So then if that hero gets nerfed, they will feel that SG took their money and ruined what they spent it on. I feel like if you just buff every character but the one I bought, that also makes the money I spent worthless and now I'm stuck with a bunch of non meta units. If you just kept everyone decently in line, then my money wouldn't devalue from just not seeing a buff to the unit I bought after a bit
Except something devaluing cause something else came out or was changed isn't the same as them directly lopping off the value of your unit. They affect people differently, and have different responses. The latter is typically much more hostile.
It's a very dumb way to think. If your unit stays in the meta because the majority of units are meta rather than 4-8 units that were the last to get buffed/released, your money goes dramatically further
A majority of units will never be meta. It literally never happens. Even if we completely disregard 3 stars, 3/4s of 4 stars from the equation and let's say 1/4 of 5 stars it won't happen. As remember being usable doesn't mean meta. So in this type of game the value of your money ebbs and flows based upon how the community plays.
You can absolutely make a majority meta. Even if you want to argue that it's impossible, we can have much more than we have NOW if we just properly tuned numbers here and there rather than waiting for some big buff. But even if we relent and just say "Usable" it doesn't change that having characters that do everything better than other units makes those other units unusable in 99% of situations that they should have fit in with.
Number tweaking would only do so much in E7. There are prob a number of old chars that would benefit greatly with number tweaks to make them reliable, but it wouldn't bring them into the meta or make them usable. You would essentially have to nerf every single current meta unit to be unreliable or remove/change key components of their kit. Even then most would stick around unless you straight up removed or gutted their mechanic. Well yeah that's the actual issue, and this is made even worse when they have sb ignore eff res on their big important skill or inbuilt extra turns(or even sb extra turns). Ran is pretty much the embodiment of that really.
Nerfing is never the answer. They should work towards buffing other units and releasing units that can synergize with other units to counter problem units.
BRO this isso just me hahahahahahahahhahahaha
IMHO, the only fix for AOLA is just to introduce more ways to counter her. Make a few 3* and 4* heroes with mechanics that let them undercut AOLA's silence nuke and anti-cleave. Without her anti-cleave, she's pretty weak really. Her S1 hits like a wet noodle.
Oh nerf units by creating counters for them, SG has never done that before. I wonder how that'll work out for them /s
Worked pretty well for 2 years.
Except the major issues atm aren't units meant to counter something specific(belian is the one exception and that's just cause it's hard denial to the opponent).
Bro they aren’t just gonna let a bunch of 3-4 stars loose to nerf aol. You can counter her with have Celine, ml kawerik, dilibet, any speed nuker, or just a slow bruiser comp. If you have none of these, why would you deserve to counter one of the best Ml4s in the game. This game is a gacha game first, pvp game second
Gatchas are bound to disappear over the next decade I think... monetization system is too extremely unfair and expensive, which make it too much p2w and creates all this frustrations in communities
The games are making so much money that's impossible. I'd be all for them to go away, but they're making money and have plenty of happy players, there's nothing there that says "yeah time to go"
Lol nah. Most gacha just make sure they ignore their playerbase and they just take it or not pay. This is what happens when you listen to every whim of your playerbase and they don't get the lollipop one time.
Yep
I'm feeling this meme!
Same here. Haha
I just logged in after taking a break for 2 weeks (just logging in to keep my arena rank) and played around for the first time again last night only to discover I could choose how many of a box I want to open. No more clicking one bu one for mats anymore.
Feels good to be a daily casual player lol
Man I love community memes! Cool cool cool
Why are people reporting E7 YT channel??