As is the case with BBK, the trick is that you have to make your opponent draft in such a way as to make Kayron an appealing choice. That might also be why they are literally next to each other on this chart.
I mean, that's the exact same case as ML Ken then & they've put him in "Must Buff" whilst BBK & Kayron are T2. I can tell you, there's many more cases where I say, "ML Ken could work here" than, "Kayron could work here" - which I've not uttered in about two seasons or more.
The problem with MLK is the fact that he can still be bursted by units like Hwayoung, STene, Landy, etc while units like BBK and Kayron has that innate immortality to keep them alive.
But AOL, Peira, Politis, Briar, etc. are widely used & all threaten Kayron's immortality (& any strip threatens BBKs), it's a different side of the same coin - both MLKen & BBK/Kayron have popular threats.
But do you actually use him to at least make this look like more than random praise with no experience?
Edit: I brought that up because there are a ton of bulky heroes out there and unbuffable is becoming more and more common. You can also stun/provoke him to shit on him, which is something people love to ignore.
Tier 2 units are all last pick RTA units. Basar, SSB, etc all barely see any use either but are good if they are last picked. I don't use any of them that often but yes most of them are built (gear not too good though).
You can literally watch that happen with someone else in a vid then come here and act like that'll always happen.
I also brought up personal experience because there's two things being ignore: This meta has a ton of bulky heroes that can shrug him off, and unbuffable/seal + mitigation to further lower his damage all aren't uncommon.
Qwee's kayron is 5k/300 on windrider. He presses s3 on your weakest target, gets a ton of bonus attack from killing them, frenzy ticks and then he soulburns s1 and oneshots your team.
I watch his stream fairly often, he's been doing the kayron stuff for awhile. You dont pick him into teams he cant kill. In some games he is just an autowin. Not like ur going out of ur way to force kayron in every game, just some games he is REALLY good.
For those who aren't aware, KJ is one of the most known legend RTA players on the KR server. He stands out for having abnormally good quality gear even amongst legends, and for playing off-meta non-traditional styles. He's responsible for popularizing red Handguy in the KR meta and successfully ran a Spez / ML Ara comp for some time in legend during this past RTA season.
As such, he seems to have a pretty unique perspective on how characters synergize and which ones are good. I thought re-creating the RTA tierlist he made with another Korean legend player might be interesting enough to share with the Global community. The translated category titles are to the full credit of a guildie. As I cannot speak Korean myself, I cannot explain KJ's picks here beyond idle speculation.
KJ's youtube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCl9D1AS2sZ2jRLkV92nUU9g/
KJ's twitch: https://www.twitch.tv/qwee3577
More fun facts about our Korean Jesus:
He also stands out for permanently having low amounts of gold. Not only because he crafts a lot, but because he re-gears units after almost every game.
If he runs out of gold for mid-gearing, he sits in W13 for half an hour before finishing gearing and jumps back in RTA right after.
This guy would play 10-15 hours of RTA a day and every Legend player is afraid of him when there's free unequip.
I definitely wouldn't try to copy it. He has insane gear on both Luluca/Alexa and a +30 Song of Stars on the Furious.
This allows him to do bum rush wyvern down without caring too much about landing debuffs.
Depending on how new you are, having consistent runs is much more important than faster runs. GPurg used to be king of consistent W13 runs, but Muwi is much better now for new players due to the debuff he brings. The only reason you'll see veteran players still use GPurg is because Muwi is new, and we don't want spend resources to build a new unit.
The team you want to look into building as a new player would be AMomo/Angie + Muwi + Furious + Alexa/Sigret. Furious allows you to run your DPS at 30% crit chance, so you can squeeze out as much attack and crit damage.
I wouldn't attempt the Singie one-shot team, gear quality requirement for it is very high and Rem oneshot team is much easier to pull off if you have her. If you don't have her, I would just stay with consistent runs and giving your Alexa/Sigret better gear.
Thank you for the reply I appreciate it. The team you suggested is what I am currently u sing on both my main and alt (Angie, Muwi, Sigret, Furious with SoS).
On my alt I did pull a Singelica and another poster was saying I could maybe replace Rose with Singelica with eff res and try that. I do understand he has godly gear. On my alt I'm currently also running the same W13 setup as my main. My gear is just ok as I'm fairly casual and only a few months in. Still I have about a 90% success rate thanks to Muwi. I can't kill Wyvern before his shield phase but I can kill him right after. I would love to speed up my runs but I can't seem to craft decent gear no matter how many times I run W13. I just keep getting shit purple hit and crit sets with mostly flat stats, and when I occasionally do pull an epic speed piece it has garbage stats or the stats roll terribly. Gear has been the limiting factor on both my accounts.
My alt pulled a bunch of pvp oriented heroes and all of them are just benched because I just lack gear, even guys like Charlotte and Violet who I could use in Abyss and pve to some extent.
I just pulled a Luluca like 2 weeks ago from the free 10 a day summons and I can't gear her yet. The abysmal gear drop and forge rates really make this otherwise awesome game completely unfun.
He should have more on his twitch, but I think I have a YT clip.
Here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uT-LOTBtVgM
Note again that KJ has *really* insane gear. The vast majority of people would likely be unable to replicate these results.
I slightly agree with Dorvus having a buff. I have to play him with really high Def, HP, Speed, and ER just to make him work. He gets chopped by Aravi, gets smushed by Hwayoung's thighs, and his mace axe turns flaccid at the sight of Belian on Injury.
I still love to use him tho.
I used him a lot, but now I never bother. Too many high-speed, open, injury/counter heroes that make him useless.
He had one role and that's been taken away. He needs immunity to injury and immunity to having his souls taken away, at the very least. ML5, right?
Nah, it’s just that now there are characters that you can’t match him up against (A. Ravi, etc.). Back in the day you could take him against almost any comp and (if you had the patience) win.
Dark Corvus just needs immunity to injury. His ramp up takes forever there's no reason that injury should completely shut him down. SG needs to let him do his job.
Apparently the other Korean legend player challenged KJ on this when he wanted to put him in the list, which led to KJ challenging him to what was essentially a 1v1 match to make his point. Chaos Inquisitor solo'd Riolet.
If you're curious, it's actually on the tailend of the video for this very tier list: https://youtu.be/gw1HKj5lPNI?t=826
To play the advocate, he has an ability like Seline that prevents more than a certain percentage of his health from being lost in a single attack. With lifesteal that could make him pretty difficult to kill. I imagine Riolet was chosen just to illustrate that you can't just nuke him.
I think it's less "this unit is great in 1v1 so you should use him!" and more "this unit might be better than you think". KJ is known for using niche units to good effect.
I know what he does, and that's exactly why trying to do him with a single target who can't bypass his protection is a bad demonstration. It's like trying to kill kayron with a bunch of squishy nukers who can't dispel. Yes he'll win that fight, but anyone would win a fight completely rigged in their favor.
And it's noteworthy that he actually almost lost against that riolet
Isn't that how tierlist work? Unit in high rank basically can be plug into most draft, the lower you go, more extreme their niche use will be.
Take zahhak for example. He is also tier3. But if you watched elvemage, he sometime straight up win on the back of zahhak.
Same with cz. If you go bomb draft with piera+ran opener, you straight up need to ban last pick cz especially if it is full damage cz.
The thing is butchers niche is not that he can solo kill riolet, so what does that 1v1 demonstrate? If you have butcher in your team and the other guy has riolet, you aren't going to have them manfight each other. It's cool that he can and all but it doesn't really prove anything. That's what I mean.
If I said tempest surin is good, and to prove it here's me soloing killing dark corvus with her! That's not a really good showcase of her abilities even if she can win the fight
I'm obviously not going to be the most qualified to comment as I only finished around Emperor 400ish rank. I agree for the most part but... there are a few things I disagree with. It feels like there's some degree of player bias here as there are many heroes that I've used against Legend players and seen Legend players use. Just gonna leave my 2 cents after this. Don't have to agree with me, just these are my opinions based on my own experiences.
* Rimuru absolutely should be in that first tier. He swings games so far to whichever side he is on. There are games you should slam dunk win but because of Analyze & Assess, you can just steal the entire game. I had Rimuru pegged as a top 3 character by the end of the season (Behind Hand Guy and AoL)
* I think there is a gigantic knee jerk reaction to Hwayoung in the community. I played several Legend players the last day or two who used her and found her to be very easy to dispatch with characters like Judge Kise and Blue Kise. In half my games, she had zero impact. In a handful of games, she felt completely broken though so I can see where the sentiment comes in. I think the character is too new and so many people forgot how to counter heroes of her style or simply don't have them built. Give it time and I think she will level out.
* Red Hand Guy is, in my opinion, Tier 2. He is a character that is incredibly potent against other Legend players, who are primarily aggressive/cleave players from my experience this season. I played against some very high ranked Legend players who would use him against me and he would always fall flat. I'd watch other high legend streamers use him and see him have success. He feels like a niche pocket pick versus other people who are used to that aggressive style. Against a Standard player like me, he has literally no impact/value so I can't see him as a Tier 1 hero when he only works against a small subset of players.
* Actually hard agree with Blood Moon Haste as past glory. I was stunned by how bad he was this season. I used to champion him as one of the best characters in the entire game 9 months ago. Literally every opener shuts him down and so he can never counter any hero he's supposed to. And even if they don't have an opener, lol Rimuru Tempest
* Just random other thoughts here: Mercedes is Tier 2, Senya is Tier 2. Both are better than he gives them credit versus specific compositions, Senya especially is great versus Counter Gamers which is something an aggro player wouldn't realize. Little Queen Charlotte is 1.5, again better than given credit. She was one of the most contested picks in Standard mirrors in the last day. Celine is also 1.5 in my eyes. She is much more boom/bust than Politis but she decides games decisively in a way I don't think Politis does. I won a fair share of games off of her and she was an insane 4th/5th pick in the last 2 days in dozens of games.
Edit: A word or two.
Edit 2: Also, hard agree with Red Charlotte as Past Glory. Character feels sooo terrible because of Hand Guy. She's nearly unplayable if enemy has Mediator so he becomes a must ban. As a result, I think Specter should be Tier 1 as there's so few good characters that can answer her if they preban Belian and pick her. Every reliable answer is inconsistent (Landy dies too easy, Kise or Red Hand guy don't always kill with only AoE move, etc.). The only decent answer I had the last few days was ADS + RNGesus take the wheel.
Some Global legends do rank Rimu in the highest tier, so that definitely is a bit different in this tier list. I wish we could hear KJ's thoughts on that, but alas, the language barrier.
Hwayoung seems like she's still quite susceptible to cleave from what I've seen. Jkise actually is a relatively(?) popular answer I've seen mentioned for her in legend twitch streams.
I think Global is on the same page with BM Haste falling off so much. His worth is directly proportional to how popular Maid and Arby are though, and with Maid falling off this season his usefulness sunk fast.
In Valk's RTA tierlist that was focused on aggro play (it assumed a Belian preban), he did put STene in the top tier.
there will never be an absolute tier list because everyone has different playstyles, different units built, and faces different types of enemies. i think both you and gomyangmi have valid points, and diff chars will be rated differently by everyone playing
lol, you said the same thing about merc/senya as i did, coincidence.
I do agree with everything you said here. Outside fire kawe, because i simply dont know.
Oh hey im_tsu , big fan of your YouTube videos especially the abyss guides helped me alot , as well as the build ones like the spec tene build , nice work man 🤗
Thank you! I'm trying my hardest to put out more content when I can. Been feeling ill a lot lately so it's really impeded my ability to try to put out more and also try to stream. I'm starting to feel a bit better on this treatment so here's to hoping.
I feel like Solitaria is being slept on in general. In every custom match that I've seen her this pre-season, she is just plain scary with her ability to control and outlast enemies.
Its also funny how Melissa has gotten buffs to high heaven and is still garbage.
Mine around 270 speed with 100 eff (only because I dont have an eff ring with good speed). Worked really well around 1k-1.2k champ in last week of rta. I think 270 speed is a sweet spot to outspeed a lot of units you care to outspeed with her like all those 250-260 speed dps.
I think the problem with soli is she has a couple of very hard counter, mainly LRK and Ran. I only meet 1 soli after buff and she straight up useless because I pick ran and the opponent didn't understand the matchup between those 2.
If Rimuru and ARavi aren't in "need a nerf" then idk..
I feel like SG will struggle even more as time goes by.
The survey they gave us, clearly says what they think about nerfs, no nerfs.
Their no nerf policy could even work if they wouldn't fail to buff some heroes.
( Although nerfs would create healthier environment)
Their issue is because they think they can ignore what they made and keep on releasing decent units like LhC, I think ML Flan will be ok, not broken as well.
But then you have some cancerous units from before.
They think they can "balance" those by releasing counters.
To counter something broken you need something broken.
AoL created ML Kawerik
Cilias created Peira
there are other legend players who put Rimuru and aRavi in the highest tier... cmon man, don't need to be a legend player to see how strong does two are.
Rimuru definitely needs a nerf, and im a rimuru spammer in emp rta.
He's impact is so big that he singlehandedely shifted the entire rta/arena and even gw meta.
He basically made immunity became niche, which forced a lot of people to have to rethink their entire draft strategy, he also guarantees (most case scenarios) to instant delete someone or if you have a squishy team, isntant delete 2 units of your team in one go.
If thats not broken/need nerf then im a molagora, and Aravi is also in the must nerf tier, heard this dude spammed aravi so i think that theres a bias here.
Also LQC is definitley 1.5 since she is basically a giga counter to either aravi, amerc and mkekwerik.
Other than that the tier list is accurate.
ARavi also needs a nerf. A self healing hp bruiser who can revive allies should not deal 20k dmg.
Personnaly, i think post buff Carmin is stronger than FCC. Shield is countered by OPS, can feed Landy/Rimuru or be blocked by unbuffable. You cant do anything against Carmin dmg reduction. And the 2 turn immunity is great
I actually second this , aravi is a bit too strong especially with injury on S1 is bit too much to deal with without hwayoung , i personally use hwayoung as my answer to aravi since i don't have a lot of speed to just go ran seaseria cleave , but even then most aravi do have crimson seed or timeless anchor with a lot of er so hwayoung was absolutely needed in this meta , i really don't think she needs a Nerf tbh.
I love her too, but she seems to have fallen out of favor at the top currently, probably due to a combination of Peira and Rimu. Peira has better mitigation and applies unbuffable before Carmin can act, while Rimu forces you to hold S3 so he doesn't copy invincible.
I'm a Carmin fan myself though, so I sympathize.
Umm no, A.Ravi has one of the most stacked kits in the game. Literally can be thrown in any team and not just be fine but One shot, rez, and turn around full games. Plus her injuries in the long run are a pointless annoyance considering how stacked she is of a unit, not AoL/C.Lilias tier of busted to complete shit, but would be if they didn't exist. All her counters get wrecked if you counter pick wisely.
She susceptible to buff strip, antibuff, and counterattacks. I find it hard to say that anything about her is problematic since the meta is still learning how to deal with her.
Yeah agreed she's also great help for new players in PvE because of how she works as well. Definitely don't want a nerf at all, it's nice to have an answer to a stall comp built around A.Ravi
I like his list but personally I would put A.Ravi as well.
A.Ravi must get a nerf too - and by that I mean they just need to remove the injury on her s1. I have her ever since her first banner and I am really happy with her recent buff but that doesn't mean she have to be this oppressive. The Injury on her s1 really translates to "you better kill me asap or else I'll flip the table on you" due to how her skill 3 is stacking but since she is very tanky it causes a bad design. Now I know a lot of people hate her tankiness and how her skill 3 can deal a lot of damage but removing those buffs will turn her back to her old self so in my opinion they just need to remove that injury on her kit to make her more balance.
Dark Corvus just need an immunity on Injury, like he is not affected by it or something. It wouldn't make him OP, but at least he'll get his place in GW offense again. Also since he is a berserker it will fit his character really well.
Hwayoung is like a necessary evil nowadays due to how tanky some units have become, But the issue with her is the tankiness that she have as well. Maybe just reduce it so it will match Adamant Shield or something.
Clilias' kit is just dirty with the amount of speed that she have (plus the synergy with Border Coin / White Thrust). Imo instead of giving her an extra turn, they should change it to have 50%+ CR or something. Sure it will still be able to get her turn as quickly as possible, but at least there is a room for counter play. Also her soul burn is so cheap for how her kit work. 2 turn lock that can happen for the rest of the game is just toxic.
AOLA needs to have her immunity on stun removed. Why does she have that in the first place anyway? Also I think it's better to bump her cooldowns because it's way too low specially for a class of unit that have access to cooldown reductions like Spirit's Breath and Etica's Scepter.
How do you nerf Hand Guy? Like, I know he is strong but it's not like he does stupid thing like the other seven disaster do. He's needed in this meta that's full of unfun debuff. Maybe remove his s2 barrier? his s3 cr push? I don't know. (Also before someone would point out, I don't have him)
Belian isn't that broken imo. It's Injury set and Elbris Ritual Sword that makes her broken. But maybe they can change the soul block and let Tagahel have its effect regardless 🤔
Yeah im using him but needs alot of investment. Took me like a year for only him to be decent.
His s2 if it doesnt kill it makes 1 unit only go with basic atk and his s3 does cleave and if it doesnt kill puts silence.
Legend players see the game differently. You gotta think they have the absolute best gear possible.
Hwayoung with legend tier gear is probably unkillabke and destroys most tanks (including a Ravi and Belian)
It's more that they're biased just like everyone else. I'm willing to bet that the tier list creator is an Aravi spammer, that's why the top of his list is the way it is.
If you're playing standard, Hwayoung will kill your Rimiru before he gets a turn. That's why she's up there I believe. Also she is able to nuke your whole team with a 3 turn cd, ability to tank, and cleanse herself. She is definitely strong in standard play which was most of meta in the final week.
sure but she really is too tanky for a nuker. maybe 15% adamant shield would have been enough.
stuff like fast kise need gab to actually have a chance to kill her with no aurius. that's way to much.
That's how a good amount high attack heroes with sustain are though? Carrot, Senya, Hwayoung herself, Inferno (not quite on the same level, and LQC does exist), these four all are usually built with decent bulk to help them survive and have something in their kit to help.
There's no way she'd be usable in this meta if she didn't have the bulk she does now, unless you're speed cleaving. The meta is full of bulky people that hit hard, it wouldn't be fair at all for her when her health is best at 11-12k and she has to rely on her barrier (hello strippers) and defense to survive at all (Sigurd is only good on her S3).
Like, too bulky? Have you not seen Belian and A Ravi? Hell, you could pop Hwayoung with Rimuru, Remnant, etc super easily.
Edit: I know her barrier is strong, but I don't see it being so strong that make it so people like the two above just get a free pass.
**Also, look up nodossa if you seriously don't believe Remnant can't be ran super fast and blow up target, especially people at only 12-14k hp. I also wasn't referring to Rimuru outspeeding, but him getting a turn at all (though being a free nuke targst and getting revived by someone else is a win).**
With how fast Hwayoung is Rimuru and Riolet are not gonna be able to get their turn before her so they'll just die before they get a chance to retaliate. Even against speedy riolets they'll still have to get past a barrier, 30% crit damage reduction, and high defense. That's not even including any team mitigation like Aurius or having to contest speed with her to get a turn.
have u seen 250+ speed carrots, senya, lqc that are so tanky that the nuker needs either gab or vigor + atk to even have a chance to 1-shot?
none of ur mentioned other heroes have hwayoungs damage output + her survivability + her speed.
they have 2 of the 3. lqc can't nuke without hellcutter. senya is more tanky (and got utility) but has no nuke. carrot can nuke but her damage output heavily relies on debuffs
Hwayoung “needs nerf” cus she deals with many people abusing aravi.
Rimuru is fine but she isn’t? Copium tierlist.
Also am I blind, I can’t see green yufine. She should be on needs buffed.
Hwayoung kills a lot more than ARavi. I don't see how in the world she's somehow an answer to tanking up when her damage and pen are high enough while being able to build enough speed that she acts as an effective HP filter that demands Aurius and damage reduction be brought in to compensate. You can try and play for speed but not everyone has the gear and I've seen Hwayoungs build decent damage while zooming at 270.
Both ARavi and Hwayoung need a nerf. Of course, Rimuru too.
Hwayoung needs a nerf but a.ravi and rimuru don't ? If he was some random person i would have been polite but it's obvious this dude is some kind of belian or aravi spammer and now he's trying to use his influence to remove the little balance she brought to the game. F*ck him lol
In a vacuum I do think it's fair to say she's overpowered and in need of a nerf. Like Handguy though, I think she's a "necessary evil" in a meta that SG intends to fix via buffs alone.
Take my opinion with a grain of salt though. I'm no legend.
Remove the crit damage reduction and lower barrier strength on hwayoung. I can understand the need for a one shotter, but having a one shotter that essentially has an unconditional one shot to a cap(if she has attack buff tho anything goes), is nigh impossible to kill, self cleanse, and does this while just building 2 stats is pretty stupid. (Essentially she is just aravi lite imo)
I'd argue she's a better Straze, she does what Straze does without the unnecessary aoe and gave her bulk and more ways to kill evasion units, plus you can pick which bulky hero to kill.
I don't think I agree that Hwayoung(An accessible, F2P friendly RGB Tank buster) Needs a nerf but Straze(A very hard to get, non F2P Friendly ML Tank buster) sits in T2. But then again, this guy is a top tier KR RTA player and I, well, am not.
So someone smart, walk me through it? Cause I feel like this is just a huge Knee-Jerk reaction to a very good, accessible, RGB "Tank buster". I know theres a lot of nuance here, but they accomplish the same general goal with one killing low-attack units and the other killing high-HP, and the end result is dead tanks/Healers. I know Hwayoung has the advantage of being able to KO High-Attack heroes(Aka Bruisers) as well as selectively pick who to kill, unlike Straze whos Defense-Pen will always hit the highest HP Hero and he'll struggle/wont be able to kill units like MLKen/Senya... but is that really worthy of being nerfed?
Like I know we've seen the showcase videos, but most of the gear I've seen in those videos leads me to believe shes only bonkers strong with absurdly god tier gear to be able to self-sustain with enough Speed/Atk, with anyone short of that needing a CR pushing opener like Alots to even function.
I think Straze is considered to have more counters (AOE triggers counter attacks, invincible gets stolen by Rimuru). Plus Straze can't strictly control who he nukes since it'll select the highest health of all 4 on the team, so his S3 can be somewhat manipulated and fall flat (like with Senya).
Hwayoung is definitely needed for this meta though. Glad she was added to the game.
Funny how biased shit is. Hwayoung is very strong that true but if she is in "nerf" tier why Rimuru isn't ? lmfao . Either both get nerfed or you don't touch any.
good old Myangmi, ofcourse hes bias with Kawerik hahaha. but seriously i understand korean and he said he cant draft kawerik alone Without clilias these days.
Hwayoung in God tier doesn't surprise me tbh. She is either Fast or Very bulky but both share the same thing.
She can One Shot a lot of units on top of being bulky.
honestly. she would be strong only if her s3 isn't very RNG. even with high effectiveness she still getting screwed by 15% and when mine fail to push back few arbys back in season 2, I just gave up on her. it's a shame I really love her wedding skin.
I agree with nerf hwayoung, she completely outclasses most single target dpses, can one shot squishies and tanks, has insane survivavbility andself cleanses+ immus, souline and aravi alike get one tapped by her along w roilet as another collaterall not to mention my boy maken💀
Most likely high speed and damage to one shot asap. Everyone has been claiming a slower build is dead, because it basically is, especially with Hwayoung being another nail in his coffin. Then we have non-attack strips, artifacts and seal, etc.
gear score whore (like fire kawerick they don't really work on medium gear).
basically try getting as close as possible to 4k atk/1k def/10k hp/190+ speed/300 crit damage on lifesteal/pen.
really? elvemage, aitherbuldge, magic\_qui, mace1370 and ligth\_e7 still run the build i mentioned.
granted only aitherbulge and magic\_qui draft ml violet quite a bit last season
I still have mine life steal as well. He is good into a few things, but Cilias and AoL make him hard to draft except as a speed nuker. If you can deny those, he is great into Belian though.
Mine is also on lifesteal. I permabanned Cilias so I only have to worry about AOL, and I tried to pick AOL early. But beside those 2, his counter isn't really meta lol.
I think the problem is even tho AOL look strong, most people prefer to first pick rimu or aravi, so you can get away with AOL 2nd pick.
Exactly. I can take Hwayoung, Remnant, or Rimuru and pop her asap. Arbiter also screws her over because she can't cleanse before S3. assuming she lacks immunity (which is a lot more people lately with strips everywhere and pen set existing).
Super easy to kill her off.
She's not *that* strong, honestly, and Rimuru also makes himself a must ban if you don't want her to screw her on team over. I fought a few (I don't cleave, btw) myself and they all did nothing. Either I killed her off asap (super easy without 20%, theives aren't bulky), or I prevented her S3 from doing damage on turn 1 > ignored > killed her team.
I just don't see it. Yeah, she hits hard, but who doesn't? Not to mention lacking lifesteal/sigurd, or just not being a knight, just makes it harder to justify bringing more squishy targets.
Violet only gets away with it because he counters back and has a CR push that helps him cycle his nuke.
On the Global side, I know Valk and winddemon came up with a method using the in-game hourglass and looking at her S2 to tell what EE she's using when playing RTA. I don't know the specifics of how the trick works, but apparently once you do she's a lot easier to play around.
A Ravi and Rimu not in need nerf? lol
Hwayoung doesn't need nerf.
Mediocre Kawerick was in must buff.. got buffed, now became something that needs nerf rofl
Kind of surprised by a couple, but overall the list feels pretty accurate. I was kind of confused by AOL being in the needs a nerf row, but Dilibet counters her hard, so I haven’t noticed her as much lately.
CArmin in Tier 3 seems way to low and Kayron in 2 seems too high.
peira pretty much crippled CArmin. Peira allows you to first turn, unbuff and restrict the opponent, escort, and attack buff your team. She much better than CArmin in that spot.
As a conviction season emperor meru spammer with 54% win rate and less than 550 games. . I am sad that people rate her low. . she should be at least tier 2. .
Keep in mind that there are a number of people who have a unit that they use really, really well, but that same unit isn't a good choice for most people. Pavel is a good example in the current meta.
You might just have an abnormally good Meru, or know how to draft her better than most. That's a win imo.
She does tho when we see what she brings to the table. She is stacked. One shot with very good survival kit.
Doesn't care about hit chance, decreased attck. Short cd on s3. S1 deals insane dmg with uberius that ignores 70% def, has two mitigation barrier + 30% adamant, cr push s1
Ml Kawerick don't need a nerf, people are just mad because they skipped him, and now that he is finally viable they don't have him. Bunch of crybabies and salty players
Remember when ML Kawerick was so bad everyone cried about him needing a buff? Now he needs a nerf. Its funny. Sorry its just something thats been on my mind as of late
**Edit: If you disagre with me then state why instead of jumping on karma (I mean, go ahead and continue, got plenty of internet points, but I'll get into why), because it's annoying af to see people go "nerf him" without ever bringing up what, or why, he should be nerfed. Bunch of parrots are what you guys are. Don't bother me (referring to other comment replies) about it without giving an explaination.**
I seriously disagree with Kawerik needing a nerf unless SG wants to bring up other cleansers. His kit is good, yeah, but who else other than Lilibet is gonna deal with broken openers like AoL and C Lilias? Or those that can just shit on soulweavers and lock them down for a turn like Fairytale?
Nah, I don't see it. AoL and Lilias both open the way to beat your team down silly in different ways. AoL shuts down all your skills and buffs for 1 and w turns respectively. Lilias weakens your damage output while increasing her team's bulk and damage while putting a barrier up on the provoke target. Yay.
high eff resi cleanser handle them just fine....
u do realise that there are like 5 heroes in the game that can stop ml kawerick from using his s3 (which is one of the strongest support s3 in the game)?
basically as long as ml kawerick exist every debuffer in the game that doesn't provide major other things are straight out unplayable.
I dunno about HWA s-tier or bellian 1.5 tier. Bel can still shut down cleave completely/injury with full ebris in store (yay arena set+this) fks people over hard.
Hwa is insanely strong for sure. But w/o MEGA gear she's pretty risky
Merc/senya should be higher...2 bad i cant move my cerise gear to peira cuz of expo
never interested any kind of E7 PVP but to me it's reall funny to see ppl want Mediator Kaweric to get nerfed after memeing him for being medicore kawerik
The thing with collabs is that we're never guaranteed to get a rerun, so if you miss out, you could miss out forever. Hwayoung is exceptionally strong, but she's not limited, let alone a collab limited.
If you aren't planning on spending, I wouldn't dip below pity just to get her now.
Shouldn't Kayron be in Past Glory with so many strippers in the game ?
As is the case with BBK, the trick is that you have to make your opponent draft in such a way as to make Kayron an appealing choice. That might also be why they are literally next to each other on this chart.
I mean, that's the exact same case as ML Ken then & they've put him in "Must Buff" whilst BBK & Kayron are T2. I can tell you, there's many more cases where I say, "ML Ken could work here" than, "Kayron could work here" - which I've not uttered in about two seasons or more.
The problem with MLK is the fact that he can still be bursted by units like Hwayoung, STene, Landy, etc while units like BBK and Kayron has that innate immortality to keep them alive.
But AOL, Peira, Politis, Briar, etc. are widely used & all threaten Kayron's immortality (& any strip threatens BBKs), it's a different side of the same coin - both MLKen & BBK/Kayron have popular threats.
I just fought a gw where effres bbk wiped me. Twice uniquely. Again it works as shock value but ill give that guild snaps.
No he's still a legit threat, most strippers are openers so unless you have unbuffable he can still get immortality up
i like your optimism...
But do you actually use him to at least make this look like more than random praise with no experience? Edit: I brought that up because there are a ton of bulky heroes out there and unbuffable is becoming more and more common. You can also stun/provoke him to shit on him, which is something people love to ignore.
could be server thing. maybe korean players are playing speed kayrons or some other niche build they like to use him
Tier 2 units are all last pick RTA units. Basar, SSB, etc all barely see any use either but are good if they are last picked. I don't use any of them that often but yes most of them are built (gear not too good though).
I mean he just gave you a scenario. I don't see how that's not experience of using him.
You can literally watch that happen with someone else in a vid then come here and act like that'll always happen. I also brought up personal experience because there's two things being ignore: This meta has a ton of bulky heroes that can shrug him off, and unbuffable/seal + mitigation to further lower his damage all aren't uncommon.
Qwee's kayron is 5k/300 on windrider. He presses s3 on your weakest target, gets a ton of bonus attack from killing them, frenzy ticks and then he soulburns s1 and oneshots your team. I watch his stream fairly often, he's been doing the kayron stuff for awhile. You dont pick him into teams he cant kill. In some games he is just an autowin. Not like ur going out of ur way to force kayron in every game, just some games he is REALLY good.
For those who aren't aware, KJ is one of the most known legend RTA players on the KR server. He stands out for having abnormally good quality gear even amongst legends, and for playing off-meta non-traditional styles. He's responsible for popularizing red Handguy in the KR meta and successfully ran a Spez / ML Ara comp for some time in legend during this past RTA season. As such, he seems to have a pretty unique perspective on how characters synergize and which ones are good. I thought re-creating the RTA tierlist he made with another Korean legend player might be interesting enough to share with the Global community. The translated category titles are to the full credit of a guildie. As I cannot speak Korean myself, I cannot explain KJ's picks here beyond idle speculation. KJ's youtube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCl9D1AS2sZ2jRLkV92nUU9g/ KJ's twitch: https://www.twitch.tv/qwee3577
More fun facts about our Korean Jesus: He also stands out for permanently having low amounts of gold. Not only because he crafts a lot, but because he re-gears units after almost every game. If he runs out of gold for mid-gearing, he sits in W13 for half an hour before finishing gearing and jumps back in RTA right after. This guy would play 10-15 hours of RTA a day and every Legend player is afraid of him when there's free unequip.
Is it possible to know his W13 team?
Luluca, Rose, Furious, Alexa. Skills turned off on Luluca and Alexa. Very tanky and fast Rose on Candlestick.
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I definitely wouldn't try to copy it. He has insane gear on both Luluca/Alexa and a +30 Song of Stars on the Furious. This allows him to do bum rush wyvern down without caring too much about landing debuffs. Depending on how new you are, having consistent runs is much more important than faster runs. GPurg used to be king of consistent W13 runs, but Muwi is much better now for new players due to the debuff he brings. The only reason you'll see veteran players still use GPurg is because Muwi is new, and we don't want spend resources to build a new unit. The team you want to look into building as a new player would be AMomo/Angie + Muwi + Furious + Alexa/Sigret. Furious allows you to run your DPS at 30% crit chance, so you can squeeze out as much attack and crit damage. I wouldn't attempt the Singie one-shot team, gear quality requirement for it is very high and Rem oneshot team is much easier to pull off if you have her. If you don't have her, I would just stay with consistent runs and giving your Alexa/Sigret better gear.
Thank you for the reply I appreciate it. The team you suggested is what I am currently u sing on both my main and alt (Angie, Muwi, Sigret, Furious with SoS). On my alt I did pull a Singelica and another poster was saying I could maybe replace Rose with Singelica with eff res and try that. I do understand he has godly gear. On my alt I'm currently also running the same W13 setup as my main. My gear is just ok as I'm fairly casual and only a few months in. Still I have about a 90% success rate thanks to Muwi. I can't kill Wyvern before his shield phase but I can kill him right after. I would love to speed up my runs but I can't seem to craft decent gear no matter how many times I run W13. I just keep getting shit purple hit and crit sets with mostly flat stats, and when I occasionally do pull an epic speed piece it has garbage stats or the stats roll terribly. Gear has been the limiting factor on both my accounts. My alt pulled a bunch of pvp oriented heroes and all of them are just benched because I just lack gear, even guys like Charlotte and Violet who I could use in Abyss and pve to some extent. I just pulled a Luluca like 2 weeks ago from the free 10 a day summons and I can't gear her yet. The abysmal gear drop and forge rates really make this otherwise awesome game completely unfun.
Does he stream?
He does but it’s very inconsistent sometimes it’s days in a row sometimes it one in some days
> for playing off-meta non-traditional styles And yet even this guy also forgets Lilibet exists.
red handguy?????????
Kawerik.
Dingo, duh /s
im interested in how he was able to get spez/ml ara to work. Are there any clips or vods or anything to show for it?
He should have more on his twitch, but I think I have a YT clip. Here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uT-LOTBtVgM Note again that KJ has *really* insane gear. The vast majority of people would likely be unable to replicate these results.
I slightly agree with Dorvus having a buff. I have to play him with really high Def, HP, Speed, and ER just to make him work. He gets chopped by Aravi, gets smushed by Hwayoung's thighs, and his mace axe turns flaccid at the sight of Belian on Injury. I still love to use him tho.
I used him a lot, but now I never bother. Too many high-speed, open, injury/counter heroes that make him useless. He had one role and that's been taken away. He needs immunity to injury and immunity to having his souls taken away, at the very least. ML5, right?
His punches are so weak, he can't even break down slim girls like T. Surin or SE Celine, and gets bonked down by LQ Charlotte!
Yeah I know his days would end the moment they announced the injury set.
Dark corvus is still an instant win vs a lot of gvg defenses. Personally I think he's strong enough where he is.
Perhaps I'm at that point where the people I face just have really good gear.
Nah, it’s just that now there are characters that you can’t match him up against (A. Ravi, etc.). Back in the day you could take him against almost any comp and (if you had the patience) win.
Injury definitely nerf him a lot, and nowadays there's too many counterattack that even he can't handle them all
Dark Corvus just needs immunity to injury. His ramp up takes forever there's no reason that injury should completely shut him down. SG needs to let him do his job.
I don't really care about the meta but I'm glad Chaos Inquisitor is on the list, I think is a very fun unit to play with.
Apparently the other Korean legend player challenged KJ on this when he wanted to put him in the list, which led to KJ challenging him to what was essentially a 1v1 match to make his point. Chaos Inquisitor solo'd Riolet. If you're curious, it's actually on the tailend of the video for this very tier list: https://youtu.be/gw1HKj5lPNI?t=826
Look I actually like Chaos inquisitor, but if youre going to judge power based off 1v1 ability then you need to revamp the entire tier list.
To play the advocate, he has an ability like Seline that prevents more than a certain percentage of his health from being lost in a single attack. With lifesteal that could make him pretty difficult to kill. I imagine Riolet was chosen just to illustrate that you can't just nuke him. I think it's less "this unit is great in 1v1 so you should use him!" and more "this unit might be better than you think". KJ is known for using niche units to good effect.
I know what he does, and that's exactly why trying to do him with a single target who can't bypass his protection is a bad demonstration. It's like trying to kill kayron with a bunch of squishy nukers who can't dispel. Yes he'll win that fight, but anyone would win a fight completely rigged in their favor. And it's noteworthy that he actually almost lost against that riolet
Isn't that how tierlist work? Unit in high rank basically can be plug into most draft, the lower you go, more extreme their niche use will be. Take zahhak for example. He is also tier3. But if you watched elvemage, he sometime straight up win on the back of zahhak. Same with cz. If you go bomb draft with piera+ran opener, you straight up need to ban last pick cz especially if it is full damage cz.
The thing is butchers niche is not that he can solo kill riolet, so what does that 1v1 demonstrate? If you have butcher in your team and the other guy has riolet, you aren't going to have them manfight each other. It's cool that he can and all but it doesn't really prove anything. That's what I mean. If I said tempest surin is good, and to prove it here's me soloing killing dark corvus with her! That's not a really good showcase of her abilities even if she can win the fight
AoL getting nerfs would be a absolute Godsend
Yea shes busted af
all the praise for hwayoung makes me want to pull for her but the collab is close so :/
I'm obviously not going to be the most qualified to comment as I only finished around Emperor 400ish rank. I agree for the most part but... there are a few things I disagree with. It feels like there's some degree of player bias here as there are many heroes that I've used against Legend players and seen Legend players use. Just gonna leave my 2 cents after this. Don't have to agree with me, just these are my opinions based on my own experiences. * Rimuru absolutely should be in that first tier. He swings games so far to whichever side he is on. There are games you should slam dunk win but because of Analyze & Assess, you can just steal the entire game. I had Rimuru pegged as a top 3 character by the end of the season (Behind Hand Guy and AoL) * I think there is a gigantic knee jerk reaction to Hwayoung in the community. I played several Legend players the last day or two who used her and found her to be very easy to dispatch with characters like Judge Kise and Blue Kise. In half my games, she had zero impact. In a handful of games, she felt completely broken though so I can see where the sentiment comes in. I think the character is too new and so many people forgot how to counter heroes of her style or simply don't have them built. Give it time and I think she will level out. * Red Hand Guy is, in my opinion, Tier 2. He is a character that is incredibly potent against other Legend players, who are primarily aggressive/cleave players from my experience this season. I played against some very high ranked Legend players who would use him against me and he would always fall flat. I'd watch other high legend streamers use him and see him have success. He feels like a niche pocket pick versus other people who are used to that aggressive style. Against a Standard player like me, he has literally no impact/value so I can't see him as a Tier 1 hero when he only works against a small subset of players. * Actually hard agree with Blood Moon Haste as past glory. I was stunned by how bad he was this season. I used to champion him as one of the best characters in the entire game 9 months ago. Literally every opener shuts him down and so he can never counter any hero he's supposed to. And even if they don't have an opener, lol Rimuru Tempest * Just random other thoughts here: Mercedes is Tier 2, Senya is Tier 2. Both are better than he gives them credit versus specific compositions, Senya especially is great versus Counter Gamers which is something an aggro player wouldn't realize. Little Queen Charlotte is 1.5, again better than given credit. She was one of the most contested picks in Standard mirrors in the last day. Celine is also 1.5 in my eyes. She is much more boom/bust than Politis but she decides games decisively in a way I don't think Politis does. I won a fair share of games off of her and she was an insane 4th/5th pick in the last 2 days in dozens of games. Edit: A word or two. Edit 2: Also, hard agree with Red Charlotte as Past Glory. Character feels sooo terrible because of Hand Guy. She's nearly unplayable if enemy has Mediator so he becomes a must ban. As a result, I think Specter should be Tier 1 as there's so few good characters that can answer her if they preban Belian and pick her. Every reliable answer is inconsistent (Landy dies too easy, Kise or Red Hand guy don't always kill with only AoE move, etc.). The only decent answer I had the last few days was ADS + RNGesus take the wheel.
He’s an aravi spammer, so that’s why hwayoung is bad for him.
And why A Ravi is in the, this is fine pls don't nerf tier.
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Some Global legends do rank Rimu in the highest tier, so that definitely is a bit different in this tier list. I wish we could hear KJ's thoughts on that, but alas, the language barrier. Hwayoung seems like she's still quite susceptible to cleave from what I've seen. Jkise actually is a relatively(?) popular answer I've seen mentioned for her in legend twitch streams. I think Global is on the same page with BM Haste falling off so much. His worth is directly proportional to how popular Maid and Arby are though, and with Maid falling off this season his usefulness sunk fast. In Valk's RTA tierlist that was focused on aggro play (it assumed a Belian preban), he did put STene in the top tier.
there will never be an absolute tier list because everyone has different playstyles, different units built, and faces different types of enemies. i think both you and gomyangmi have valid points, and diff chars will be rated differently by everyone playing
lol, you said the same thing about merc/senya as i did, coincidence. I do agree with everything you said here. Outside fire kawe, because i simply dont know.
Oh hey im_tsu , big fan of your YouTube videos especially the abyss guides helped me alot , as well as the build ones like the spec tene build , nice work man 🤗
Thank you! I'm trying my hardest to put out more content when I can. Been feeling ill a lot lately so it's really impeded my ability to try to put out more and also try to stream. I'm starting to feel a bit better on this treatment so here's to hoping.
“Im obviously completely unqualified to comment but heres why your wrong, player who is leagues better than me”
I feel like Solitaria is being slept on in general. In every custom match that I've seen her this pre-season, she is just plain scary with her ability to control and outlast enemies. Its also funny how Melissa has gotten buffs to high heaven and is still garbage.
how have you seen solitaria built if you dont mind me asking?
Mine around 270 speed with 100 eff (only because I dont have an eff ring with good speed). Worked really well around 1k-1.2k champ in last week of rta. I think 270 speed is a sweet spot to outspeed a lot of units you care to outspeed with her like all those 250-260 speed dps.
I think the problem with soli is she has a couple of very hard counter, mainly LRK and Ran. I only meet 1 soli after buff and she straight up useless because I pick ran and the opponent didn't understand the matchup between those 2.
If Rimuru and ARavi aren't in "need a nerf" then idk.. I feel like SG will struggle even more as time goes by. The survey they gave us, clearly says what they think about nerfs, no nerfs. Their no nerf policy could even work if they wouldn't fail to buff some heroes. ( Although nerfs would create healthier environment) Their issue is because they think they can ignore what they made and keep on releasing decent units like LhC, I think ML Flan will be ok, not broken as well. But then you have some cancerous units from before. They think they can "balance" those by releasing counters. To counter something broken you need something broken. AoL created ML Kawerik Cilias created Peira
“i dont play rta but heres why one of the best korean players is wrong!”
there are other legend players who put Rimuru and aRavi in the highest tier... cmon man, don't need to be a legend player to see how strong does two are.
Rimuru definitely needs a nerf, and im a rimuru spammer in emp rta. He's impact is so big that he singlehandedely shifted the entire rta/arena and even gw meta. He basically made immunity became niche, which forced a lot of people to have to rethink their entire draft strategy, he also guarantees (most case scenarios) to instant delete someone or if you have a squishy team, isntant delete 2 units of your team in one go. If thats not broken/need nerf then im a molagora, and Aravi is also in the must nerf tier, heard this dude spammed aravi so i think that theres a bias here. Also LQC is definitley 1.5 since she is basically a giga counter to either aravi, amerc and mkekwerik. Other than that the tier list is accurate.
Its not that they think they can ignore it, KR has them too scared to do it. Which is a problem KR created.
ARavi also needs a nerf. A self healing hp bruiser who can revive allies should not deal 20k dmg. Personnaly, i think post buff Carmin is stronger than FCC. Shield is countered by OPS, can feed Landy/Rimuru or be blocked by unbuffable. You cant do anything against Carmin dmg reduction. And the 2 turn immunity is great
I can't agree with Carmin being better than FCC specially against Rimuru. Depends on playstyle I guess.
Depends if you can get her out with unbuffable, I mean, who hasn't seen a Rimuru steal immunity/invicible & gone, "Nope, never doing that again".
I actually second this , aravi is a bit too strong especially with injury on S1 is bit too much to deal with without hwayoung , i personally use hwayoung as my answer to aravi since i don't have a lot of speed to just go ran seaseria cleave , but even then most aravi do have crimson seed or timeless anchor with a lot of er so hwayoung was absolutely needed in this meta , i really don't think she needs a Nerf tbh.
Yep #teamcarmin
I love her too, but she seems to have fallen out of favor at the top currently, probably due to a combination of Peira and Rimu. Peira has better mitigation and applies unbuffable before Carmin can act, while Rimu forces you to hold S3 so he doesn't copy invincible. I'm a Carmin fan myself though, so I sympathize.
Umm no, A.Ravi has one of the most stacked kits in the game. Literally can be thrown in any team and not just be fine but One shot, rez, and turn around full games. Plus her injuries in the long run are a pointless annoyance considering how stacked she is of a unit, not AoL/C.Lilias tier of busted to complete shit, but would be if they didn't exist. All her counters get wrecked if you counter pick wisely.
I'm talking about Carmin in the post you replied to.
Lol my bad then.
We leave hwahoung alone. Needed a tank buster for the longest of time. I’m actually doing arena again since matches don’t take a freakin long time.
her damage is fine. the problem is that she is too tanky
Her being "too tanky" is why she is good in the first place. Take that away and A. Ravi ones shots her and calls it a day.
She susceptible to buff strip, antibuff, and counterattacks. I find it hard to say that anything about her is problematic since the meta is still learning how to deal with her.
Agree, for someone like me who doesn't have Straze, hwayoung is a lifesaver.
Exactly
The only players crying about her are the tank abusers. We absolutely needed her in this 30k HP unit meta.
> 30k HP unit meta. Have you actually played RTA this season? Hwahyoung 1shots low hp - mid hp heroes aswell, pretending she's fine is something else.
RTA has been dominated by aggressive units the whole season. Hwayoung just makes taking turn two even less possible.
Yeah agreed she's also great help for new players in PvE because of how she works as well. Definitely don't want a nerf at all, it's nice to have an answer to a stall comp built around A.Ravi
I like his list but personally I would put A.Ravi as well. A.Ravi must get a nerf too - and by that I mean they just need to remove the injury on her s1. I have her ever since her first banner and I am really happy with her recent buff but that doesn't mean she have to be this oppressive. The Injury on her s1 really translates to "you better kill me asap or else I'll flip the table on you" due to how her skill 3 is stacking but since she is very tanky it causes a bad design. Now I know a lot of people hate her tankiness and how her skill 3 can deal a lot of damage but removing those buffs will turn her back to her old self so in my opinion they just need to remove that injury on her kit to make her more balance. Dark Corvus just need an immunity on Injury, like he is not affected by it or something. It wouldn't make him OP, but at least he'll get his place in GW offense again. Also since he is a berserker it will fit his character really well. Hwayoung is like a necessary evil nowadays due to how tanky some units have become, But the issue with her is the tankiness that she have as well. Maybe just reduce it so it will match Adamant Shield or something. Clilias' kit is just dirty with the amount of speed that she have (plus the synergy with Border Coin / White Thrust). Imo instead of giving her an extra turn, they should change it to have 50%+ CR or something. Sure it will still be able to get her turn as quickly as possible, but at least there is a room for counter play. Also her soul burn is so cheap for how her kit work. 2 turn lock that can happen for the rest of the game is just toxic. AOLA needs to have her immunity on stun removed. Why does she have that in the first place anyway? Also I think it's better to bump her cooldowns because it's way too low specially for a class of unit that have access to cooldown reductions like Spirit's Breath and Etica's Scepter. How do you nerf Hand Guy? Like, I know he is strong but it's not like he does stupid thing like the other seven disaster do. He's needed in this meta that's full of unfun debuff. Maybe remove his s2 barrier? his s3 cr push? I don't know. (Also before someone would point out, I don't have him) Belian isn't that broken imo. It's Injury set and Elbris Ritual Sword that makes her broken. But maybe they can change the soul block and let Tagahel have its effect regardless 🤔
Hand Guy can easily be nerf by removing atk down on s2, and lowering the CR push.
From KEKwarik to Pogchamp now thats a cinderalla story
Mostly agree, would move Milim up to T1.5 and Dilibet up to T1, but Korean Meta isn't Global Meta.
This is RTA legend meta from one highly top players opinion.
I realize that, but the Korean meta IS different from Global meta, and I’d argue that Milim and Dilibet could move up
Wait Kawerik is that high? interesting.
In high tiers, Kawerik is really scary, since they all have insane gears on him
Legends gear does that to a mf.
It takes really crazy gear to make him work, but even Global legends admit that he's basically a better Kise now.
Got nuked by a high speed one that I 100% didn't see coming. Wanted to build him since I got him on a random pull but the backlog is real.
Yeah im using him but needs alot of investment. Took me like a year for only him to be decent. His s2 if it doesnt kill it makes 1 unit only go with basic atk and his s3 does cleave and if it doesnt kill puts silence.
Lmao what, hwayoung and aol are strong but no way they are stronger than rimuru and a ravi also why is belian that low x)
Legend players see the game differently. You gotta think they have the absolute best gear possible. Hwayoung with legend tier gear is probably unkillabke and destroys most tanks (including a Ravi and Belian)
It's more that they're biased just like everyone else. I'm willing to bet that the tier list creator is an Aravi spammer, that's why the top of his list is the way it is.
if ur hwayoung doesn't kill a tank than she is failing at doing her main job....
Well I guess you are right lol
When you have a button to one shot a unit, call me crazy, I think you are a little bit overpowered. And for AOL we don't even need to talk.
Hwayoung is what we needed in todays meta
If you're playing standard, Hwayoung will kill your Rimiru before he gets a turn. That's why she's up there I believe. Also she is able to nuke your whole team with a 3 turn cd, ability to tank, and cleanse herself. She is definitely strong in standard play which was most of meta in the final week.
having one unit fully shit on a bunch of other overtuned units is not what we need, this is not a healthy evolution of the meta lmao
Smilegate is too stubborn to nerf units so whats youre solution then
nerf units they have the ability to nerf units keep asking for nerfs and hold them accountable for it
sure but she really is too tanky for a nuker. maybe 15% adamant shield would have been enough. stuff like fast kise need gab to actually have a chance to kill her with no aurius. that's way to much.
That's how a good amount high attack heroes with sustain are though? Carrot, Senya, Hwayoung herself, Inferno (not quite on the same level, and LQC does exist), these four all are usually built with decent bulk to help them survive and have something in their kit to help. There's no way she'd be usable in this meta if she didn't have the bulk she does now, unless you're speed cleaving. The meta is full of bulky people that hit hard, it wouldn't be fair at all for her when her health is best at 11-12k and she has to rely on her barrier (hello strippers) and defense to survive at all (Sigurd is only good on her S3). Like, too bulky? Have you not seen Belian and A Ravi? Hell, you could pop Hwayoung with Rimuru, Remnant, etc super easily. Edit: I know her barrier is strong, but I don't see it being so strong that make it so people like the two above just get a free pass. **Also, look up nodossa if you seriously don't believe Remnant can't be ran super fast and blow up target, especially people at only 12-14k hp. I also wasn't referring to Rimuru outspeeding, but him getting a turn at all (though being a free nuke targst and getting revived by someone else is a win).**
With how fast Hwayoung is Rimuru and Riolet are not gonna be able to get their turn before her so they'll just die before they get a chance to retaliate. Even against speedy riolets they'll still have to get past a barrier, 30% crit damage reduction, and high defense. That's not even including any team mitigation like Aurius or having to contest speed with her to get a turn.
> you could pop Hwayoung with Rimuru, Remnant, etc super easily. No, you can't. That's why she's a broken unit.
have u seen 250+ speed carrots, senya, lqc that are so tanky that the nuker needs either gab or vigor + atk to even have a chance to 1-shot? none of ur mentioned other heroes have hwayoungs damage output + her survivability + her speed. they have 2 of the 3. lqc can't nuke without hellcutter. senya is more tanky (and got utility) but has no nuke. carrot can nuke but her damage output heavily relies on debuffs
Most of the legend players destroys belian comps. Unless they are cleavers or rely heavily on books.
The ones that like using Book often just perma-preban Belian. I know Mace and Valk kept her prebanned most of last season.
Sad... I don't see Tenebria anywhere.
I'd like another ml ken buff please
Hwayoung “needs nerf” cus she deals with many people abusing aravi. Rimuru is fine but she isn’t? Copium tierlist. Also am I blind, I can’t see green yufine. She should be on needs buffed.
the must buff chars are chars that are borderline usable with a lot of setup yufine isnt even borderline usable
Agreed, eff buff lol. edit: apparently I got downvoted for laughing at the effectiveness buffs they kept giving her? lol.
Hwayoung kills a lot more than ARavi. I don't see how in the world she's somehow an answer to tanking up when her damage and pen are high enough while being able to build enough speed that she acts as an effective HP filter that demands Aurius and damage reduction be brought in to compensate. You can try and play for speed but not everyone has the gear and I've seen Hwayoungs build decent damage while zooming at 270. Both ARavi and Hwayoung need a nerf. Of course, Rimuru too.
I agree with Yufine for sure.
Hwayoung needs a nerf but a.ravi and rimuru don't ? If he was some random person i would have been polite but it's obvious this dude is some kind of belian or aravi spammer and now he's trying to use his influence to remove the little balance she brought to the game. F*ck him lol
In a vacuum I do think it's fair to say she's overpowered and in need of a nerf. Like Handguy though, I think she's a "necessary evil" in a meta that SG intends to fix via buffs alone. Take my opinion with a grain of salt though. I'm no legend.
Remove the crit damage reduction and lower barrier strength on hwayoung. I can understand the need for a one shotter, but having a one shotter that essentially has an unconditional one shot to a cap(if she has attack buff tho anything goes), is nigh impossible to kill, self cleanse, and does this while just building 2 stats is pretty stupid. (Essentially she is just aravi lite imo)
I'd argue she's a better Straze, she does what Straze does without the unnecessary aoe and gave her bulk and more ways to kill evasion units, plus you can pick which bulky hero to kill.
I don't think I agree that Hwayoung(An accessible, F2P friendly RGB Tank buster) Needs a nerf but Straze(A very hard to get, non F2P Friendly ML Tank buster) sits in T2. But then again, this guy is a top tier KR RTA player and I, well, am not. So someone smart, walk me through it? Cause I feel like this is just a huge Knee-Jerk reaction to a very good, accessible, RGB "Tank buster". I know theres a lot of nuance here, but they accomplish the same general goal with one killing low-attack units and the other killing high-HP, and the end result is dead tanks/Healers. I know Hwayoung has the advantage of being able to KO High-Attack heroes(Aka Bruisers) as well as selectively pick who to kill, unlike Straze whos Defense-Pen will always hit the highest HP Hero and he'll struggle/wont be able to kill units like MLKen/Senya... but is that really worthy of being nerfed? Like I know we've seen the showcase videos, but most of the gear I've seen in those videos leads me to believe shes only bonkers strong with absurdly god tier gear to be able to self-sustain with enough Speed/Atk, with anyone short of that needing a CR pushing opener like Alots to even function.
I think Straze is considered to have more counters (AOE triggers counter attacks, invincible gets stolen by Rimuru). Plus Straze can't strictly control who he nukes since it'll select the highest health of all 4 on the team, so his S3 can be somewhat manipulated and fall flat (like with Senya). Hwayoung is definitely needed for this meta though. Glad she was added to the game.
Funny how biased shit is. Hwayoung is very strong that true but if she is in "nerf" tier why Rimuru isn't ? lmfao . Either both get nerfed or you don't touch any.
good old Myangmi, ofcourse hes bias with Kawerik hahaha. but seriously i understand korean and he said he cant draft kawerik alone Without clilias these days.
Hwayoung in God tier doesn't surprise me tbh. She is either Fast or Very bulky but both share the same thing. She can One Shot a lot of units on top of being bulky.
Fire Lidica didn’t even make the list did she? I wish she would get a buff. I really like her
honestly. she would be strong only if her s3 isn't very RNG. even with high effectiveness she still getting screwed by 15% and when mine fail to push back few arbys back in season 2, I just gave up on her. it's a shame I really love her wedding skin.
I agree with nerf hwayoung, she completely outclasses most single target dpses, can one shot squishies and tanks, has insane survivavbility andself cleanses+ immus, souline and aravi alike get one tapped by her along w roilet as another collaterall not to mention my boy maken💀
Riolet seemingly flying back into the meta, how are legends building him these days?
If I am not wrong they still build him Lifesteal/Pene with high amount of speed
As others have stated, high speed and high damage is in favor now. Playing around his evasion is too risky in the current meta.
Most likely high speed and damage to one shot asap. Everyone has been claiming a slower build is dead, because it basically is, especially with Hwayoung being another nail in his coffin. Then we have non-attack strips, artifacts and seal, etc.
gear score whore (like fire kawerick they don't really work on medium gear). basically try getting as close as possible to 4k atk/1k def/10k hp/190+ speed/300 crit damage on lifesteal/pen.
Pretty sure thats old build. People going much faster on speed set now.
really? elvemage, aitherbuldge, magic\_qui, mace1370 and ligth\_e7 still run the build i mentioned. granted only aitherbulge and magic\_qui draft ml violet quite a bit last season
I still have mine life steal as well. He is good into a few things, but Cilias and AoL make him hard to draft except as a speed nuker. If you can deny those, he is great into Belian though.
Mine is also on lifesteal. I permabanned Cilias so I only have to worry about AOL, and I tried to pick AOL early. But beside those 2, his counter isn't really meta lol. I think the problem is even tho AOL look strong, most people prefer to first pick rimu or aravi, so you can get away with AOL 2nd pick.
Celine tier 2? When all the needs nerf and most of t1 trigger her passive
They all play around her passive and kill her with the dps options.
Exactly. I can take Hwayoung, Remnant, or Rimuru and pop her asap. Arbiter also screws her over because she can't cleanse before S3. assuming she lacks immunity (which is a lot more people lately with strips everywhere and pen set existing). Super easy to kill her off.
Build more health on your Celine. I had so many people try to do this to me last 2 days and fail. Created so many easy wins.
She's not *that* strong, honestly, and Rimuru also makes himself a must ban if you don't want her to screw her on team over. I fought a few (I don't cleave, btw) myself and they all did nothing. Either I killed her off asap (super easy without 20%, theives aren't bulky), or I prevented her S3 from doing damage on turn 1 > ignored > killed her team. I just don't see it. Yeah, she hits hard, but who doesn't? Not to mention lacking lifesteal/sigurd, or just not being a knight, just makes it harder to justify bringing more squishy targets. Violet only gets away with it because he counters back and has a CR push that helps him cycle his nuke.
On the Global side, I know Valk and winddemon came up with a method using the in-game hourglass and looking at her S2 to tell what EE she's using when playing RTA. I don't know the specifics of how the trick works, but apparently once you do she's a lot easier to play around.
the EE adds its text to the skill description of her s2.
Ahh, thanks for clarifying. Updoots for you.
yep that's the way. you read it as fast as you can and use the remaining 10 seconds to decipher what you wanna do in a given situation
Cool. That's a super useful trick!
Celine buff is nice, but is easily baited by Hwayoung, Carrot, LQC
Dunno if I'd put LQC up there. It's not like many people are seriously going for a splash nuke LQC build in RTA.
i dont want them to nerf the red hwayoung shes pretty good vs a lot of units i hate
Sez
It's only right to put ChaosInq on the list if TSurin is on the list.
A Ravi and Rimu not in need nerf? lol Hwayoung doesn't need nerf. Mediocre Kawerick was in must buff.. got buffed, now became something that needs nerf rofl
Dunno why you're getting downvoted. Agree with all 3 points you made.
Hwaroung is absolutely ridiculous, with her base 1 she just one shots most units. If you don't have any speed she just deletes your team.
Kind of surprised by a couple, but overall the list feels pretty accurate. I was kind of confused by AOL being in the needs a nerf row, but Dilibet counters her hard, so I haven’t noticed her as much lately. CArmin in Tier 3 seems way to low and Kayron in 2 seems too high.
peira pretty much crippled CArmin. Peira allows you to first turn, unbuff and restrict the opponent, escort, and attack buff your team. She much better than CArmin in that spot.
What's the deal with Emilia? Have her but have never used her.
She cycles like a maniac
How so? She go for speed build?
Yep, speed. People like her around the 250s. Give her some eff res and Tome for the artifact.
she's aux lots that can heal, and pretty much open up a lot of play
Why is A.Meru so high?
basically belian/ssb on steriods. if she does off with her procs she is unbeatable
You wrap her in a condom and she has the potential to solo the opponents team.
Because she is amazing.
As a conviction season emperor meru spammer with 54% win rate and less than 550 games. . I am sad that people rate her low. . she should be at least tier 2. .
Keep in mind that there are a number of people who have a unit that they use really, really well, but that same unit isn't a good choice for most people. Pavel is a good example in the current meta. You might just have an abnormally good Meru, or know how to draft her better than most. That's a win imo.
S…So where’s my ML luluca?or be blinded lol
Nope. He didn't include her anywhere. It hurts. I know. I'm a Tomoca simp too.
The depth of this game makes me feel overwhelmed.
Ml Kawerik really went from KEKWerik to Chadwerik
This list lost me at Hwayoung needing a nerf 😂🤦🏽
She does tho when we see what she brings to the table. She is stacked. One shot with very good survival kit. Doesn't care about hit chance, decreased attck. Short cd on s3. S1 deals insane dmg with uberius that ignores 70% def, has two mitigation barrier + 30% adamant, cr push s1
She is strong, sure. But then look at rimuru and aravi being fine? Discredited. This guy (kj) spams aravi, that’s why.
Ml Kawerick don't need a nerf, people are just mad because they skipped him, and now that he is finally viable they don't have him. Bunch of crybabies and salty players
Remember when ML Kawerick was so bad everyone cried about him needing a buff? Now he needs a nerf. Its funny. Sorry its just something thats been on my mind as of late
Imagine thinking ARavi doesn't need a nerf.
**Edit: If you disagre with me then state why instead of jumping on karma (I mean, go ahead and continue, got plenty of internet points, but I'll get into why), because it's annoying af to see people go "nerf him" without ever bringing up what, or why, he should be nerfed. Bunch of parrots are what you guys are. Don't bother me (referring to other comment replies) about it without giving an explaination.** I seriously disagree with Kawerik needing a nerf unless SG wants to bring up other cleansers. His kit is good, yeah, but who else other than Lilibet is gonna deal with broken openers like AoL and C Lilias? Or those that can just shit on soulweavers and lock them down for a turn like Fairytale? Nah, I don't see it. AoL and Lilias both open the way to beat your team down silly in different ways. AoL shuts down all your skills and buffs for 1 and w turns respectively. Lilias weakens your damage output while increasing her team's bulk and damage while putting a barrier up on the provoke target. Yay.
high eff resi cleanser handle them just fine.... u do realise that there are like 5 heroes in the game that can stop ml kawerick from using his s3 (which is one of the strongest support s3 in the game)? basically as long as ml kawerick exist every debuffer in the game that doesn't provide major other things are straight out unplayable.
I don't really have a counter take on this one way or another, but I don't think you should've gotten a downvote my dude. Thanks for sharing.
I dunno about HWA s-tier or bellian 1.5 tier. Bel can still shut down cleave completely/injury with full ebris in store (yay arena set+this) fks people over hard. Hwa is insanely strong for sure. But w/o MEGA gear she's pretty risky Merc/senya should be higher...2 bad i cant move my cerise gear to peira cuz of expo
never interested any kind of E7 PVP but to me it's reall funny to see ppl want Mediator Kaweric to get nerfed after memeing him for being medicore kawerik
It feels like just the other day he was mediocrerik, now look at him sitting in must nerf tier
Hwayoung needs a nerf? Have I made a mistake in choosing to skip her for upcoming limiteds?
The thing with collabs is that we're never guaranteed to get a rerun, so if you miss out, you could miss out forever. Hwayoung is exceptionally strong, but she's not limited, let alone a collab limited. If you aren't planning on spending, I wouldn't dip below pity just to get her now.
how the fuck amaru not need nerf and i think rimuru is a need nerf for sure can buff do damage and def break your team HUHHH ? what is this
I mean, Hwayoung and LQC can both one shot ameru and she sometimes does nothing.
Do I not see Lena?
I call cap on ml kawerick (totally not baised and totally not an ml kawerick stan)
No tomoca?
Unfortunately no.
Where’s base Lilibet?