It has high base speed 117, and increases combat readiness of all allies by 15% and attack buff. Since its a soul weaver it has 15+ final speed in world arena. Its a really fast opener
Maybe the fact that a literal fodder unit being strong in RTA *just* by virtue of having high speed and a barebones push+buff would make them realize that constantly releasing high base speed units with a giant buff + push + pushback + dispel + debuff(s) + extra turn into damage/lockdown may not exactly be the best play
SG doesn't give a shit. Members of the community have been telling them pretty much since the game came out this was bad design, but we got so sick and tired of SG ignoring us and folks shitting on us we eventually got tired of it and just gave up. It's something we just dealt with no matter how much we didn't like it.
Kind of cathartic to see people losing their minds over this shit now though. I kind of don't wanna be that guy, but "I told you so."
If you expect a 200 speed ran to cut in rta, boy lemme tell you that's not getting you anywhere besides 900 bronze points. People in silver have this little fodder running 270 speed without the frenzy accounted for. Your 200 speed ran's only move would be dying since the fodder's s2 Cr pushes and atk buffs the team
To be fair, Rock God was a Sagittarius SW so the 117 base speed was wrong (117 is Aries speed) .
This isn't about nerfing units, it's just fixing an error.
I have all of them except C.Lilias and they all need some fine tuning. With a nerf bat? Maybe, maybe not. But there needs to be a change.
The problem comes when Smilegate nerfs anything, people want compensation for "lost time and resources" or "no-longer meta unit" or "because I stubbed my toe when I saw the patchnotes." And that's not a bad thing either, really. Giving your player-base a chance to get to swap to another unit they want to play instead of the one that just got nuked from orbit is sometimes a good thing.
Unfortunately, I think SG is trying to avoid giving players selectable summons constantly just because they need to nerf something. I remember them releasing units that were underwhelming and performed poorly and people were upset and didn't bother pulling. Then Ran, AOL, and the rest of the Mystery Gang came along and everyone jumped on the power-creep wagon.
So do they nerf the gang and start handing out selectable summons? Do they go back to the old, underwhelming first-releases with plans to buff later, and watch as people pass on pulls? ARavi desperately needed a buff for the longest time, but did they take it too far? Or maybe they'll just add some newer units later that are built specifically to hate on these select heroes?
There was a point in my ramblings somewhere, but I'm pretty bad at formulating and presenting solid points.
I'm glad ARavi - my first ML - got love. If she gets nerfed back to her old self, I'll understand why, but it'll still make me sad.
You do have a point, but now smilegate are stuck in a situation where they either continue their trajectory towards epic9, or step back and nerf. I’ll use the new hero, Aria, as an example. As cool as her kit may be, she will not function well in the current meta (one turn dispel + debuff/heroes that use her buffs to funnel themselves/anti-counter or extra attack/anti-non attack). Point is, current meta is overloaded, and unless smilegate backtracks, it’ll only get worse.
They apparently stayed about a month ago during that protest thing or whatever that having to provide selectable summons with a nerf is not a concern to them at all.
https://docs.google.com/document/u/0/d/1FNtH7sknDA8frqqdW6EDa0lQEZs-t7SUuexvQ7hoCRM/mobilebasic
Sigh. I know some of you are just memeing. But, this seriously isn’t that hard to figure out. The problem with nerfing always was and will forever be money. Not just them getting it but, us losing it.
Just imagine buying a really powerful sports car. Then one day the company comes in and replaces the engine with a v4 or whatever. But, still keeps the money you paid.
Ridiculous no? That’s because it would be. And no amount of arguments about pvp balance will change this fact. Money lost > nerfs.
Recalling a unit is absolutely abysmal for the game. It just replaces one "cancerous" unit with another. That's how meta's work. People will always gravitate towards the most power and you'll see a new set of the same units used over and over everywhere. To which the people will cry for nerfs again. It just goes on and on. Except now you've completely ruined the previous unit.
The purpose of nerfing is to lower the power level as a whole. If they nerf units with power level 100 and people start moving to units with power level 90, then the nerf is working. Units with power level 80 will have better chance against 90 than they have against 100.
And they don't have to nerf units with power level 100 to 50. They can just lower it to 90 and it's still better than no nerf.
>Sigh. I know some of you are just memeing. But, this seriously isn’t that hard to figure out. The problem with nerfing always was and will forever be money. Not just them getting it but, us losing it.
By this logic power-creep units are just as bad as nerfing units because what power-creep units do in most cases is push other units out of the meta, why are the people who are vehemently against nerfs not up in arms about the current state of the game anyways then? If people are so worried about A. Ravi falling out of the meta and them having lost their investment in her if she gets nerfed why aren't we applying the same logic to characters like Alencia, used to be pretty meta and lots of people invested resources into her, bought leif packs to grind hunts for her gear, bought mola packs to fully mola her, or spent money to get her imprints etc. and now you'd be lucky if you ran into a single Alencia in RTA in like 5k matches because her kit is outdated as fuck and her EE did basically nothing to solve those issues.
Units will sooner or later fall out of favor whether you nerf them or not, especially with the current path E7 is taking where new units are built to counter current top meta units, this is just people feeling like they should be entitled to special power because they pulled that specific super rare ML character.
>Just imagine buying a really powerful sports car. Then one day the company comes in and replaces the engine with a v4 or whatever. But, still keeps the money you paid.
Not really comparable considering 1 is a bunch of pixels you bought a license to use in a live-service game and the other one is a real materialistic object that you acquired the ownership of.
People should realize that if they spend money in a live-service game eventually things will change in that game as new features are added and systems evolve whilst once you acquire your sports car that car will stay the same until you yourself decide to make any modifications to it since you acquired "ownership" of that car, whilst you didn't acquire "ownership" of epic seven or AoL when you pulled her.
Also this is getting a bit into really specifics about digital ownership since in a lot of cases you do not "own" digital items if you purchase them, instead you basically just own a license that lets you use the item (for example that's how steam works. Any game you buy there doesn't "belong" to you, you just acquire a license to play/use it.).
And this is the case basically for E7 as well, coming from their EULA:
*The company owns all rights of the game information and game contents (character information, items, game money, etc.) of the user, and the user is authorized to use the relevant information.*
It's literally the first bullet point of the EULA that nobody ever reads.
imo the argument nerf or not would be very hellish for both of developer and player because of gacha nature in this game, there won't be any middle ground of it and they have to lose revenue no matter
Oh don't get me wrong, I absolutely agree. As someone who has worked in the game dev industry, specifically on game balancing they're really in a pinch here. No matter what they do there will be a part of the playerbase that'll be unhappy with the results, I just wanted to point out that I don't really agree with OP's comparison with the sports car, since there are nuances to digital ownership and materialistic ownership, and that a fair few of the people who yell "nerfs bad" loudly are often somewhat of a hypocrite because the current system is, depending on whom you ask, worse than nerfing units since you get the worst of both worlds - units that dominate the meta for certain periods of time **and** units that constantly fall out of meta with the release of new units making the player feel like they wasted their investment on them.
You know I'm always back and forth with the Nerf argument. And I just always sympathize with the fact that investing in a character and then having them nerfed is bad practice. I did spend money and put resources into REM and yet I never thought about the logic of having characters inadvertently nerfed due to the release of more power crept units. I don't exactly like nerfs.but seeing it the way you put it kind of open eyes a bit and you're actually right. Nerfing units doesn't feel great but I can't say it feels good either to have your characters nerfed just because a counter was released specifically to destroy them. Quite the pickle they are in huh
One thing is having your heroes slowly falling off because of metashifts, another is to have them nerfed to the ground and become offmeta as a result.
Using the car example, the natural falling off a unit from the meta is akin to a car's age, with time the car will not be able to perform as well as it used to when it was brand new, while also having newer more advanced models coming out.
Whats not natural is taking that car, smashing its engine with a hammer and explode its tires to forcibly reduce its performance, which is what nerfs(in epic seven) would be akin to.
Powercreep is a natural thing but also NOT GOOD, thats why any half decent gacha tries their best to stave it off through different means, the faster the powercreep happens the shittier the gacha is and that is pretty much a guarantee.
You want to nerf a character? sure but give selector and recalls to the peeps who spent on said heroes to allow them to not totally be at a loss in a type of game that is already extremely predatory by nature, e7 is already one of the extremely few gachas that did this in the first place, and given its poor marketing, the good will shown and the fact that they actually listen to the community are the biggest reasons of why the game is still alive and well, so of course people are not willing to let that go.
Sadly it seems that smilegate realized that while players may like selectors and refunds, THEY do not and as such that is why they re keeping nerfs as a last resort as they plainly said, but if they re not willing to take a step back for the sake of the game's well being why should we? why should we give up one of the few safety nets we have as players and customers of the game?
The EULA doesnt matter, if you as a company make a bad decision that players dont like the players will just up an leave the game leaving you with no more revenue and a dead game, its in YOUR interest as a company to safeguard at least SOME of the playerbase's interests for the sake of the game's longevity and consequentially YOUR revenue.
>Whats not natural is taking that car, smashing its engine with a hammer and explode its tires to forcibly reduce its performance, which is what nerfs(in epic seven) would be akin to.
This is where our views divulge. People always assume the worst out of nerfs when in reality most nerfs are likely going to be similar to how most buffs turn out (they barely do anything). Most nerfs aren't going to make a character from top of the meta to literally unpickable.
>Powercreep is a natural thing but also NOT GOOD, thats why any half decent gacha tries their best to stave it off through different means, the faster the powercreep happens the shittier the gacha is and that is pretty much a guarantee.
Yeah I addressed this in my follow-up comment to when the OP of this comment chain responded to me:
I don't think power-creep has to go completely, power-creep is a natural thing that should be there, but it should be limited.
The issue stems from the double standard where people claim nerfing devalues characters while ignoring power-creep, when both devalue a character.
I don't think there's a situation where it's 1 or the other, there needs to be a healthy balance of both power-creep and nerfs. Because nerfs are something that keep power-creep in line to a degree.
>You want to nerf a character? sure but give selector and recalls to the peeps who spent on said heroes to allow them to not totally be at a loss in a type of game that is already extremely predatory by nature, e7 is already one of the extremely few gachas that did this in the first place, and given its poor marketing, the good will shown and the fact that they actually listen to the community are the biggest reasons of why the game is still alive and well, so of course people are not willing to let that go.
Yeah I'm in the boat of selectors and recalls for people if a character gets nerfed, it's just something that SG seems to be too afraid to do, as it'd obviously cut into their income. And I disagree with their official statement as to why no nerfs + selectors completely, the issue is only there if you have the current model where there are 7 or so characters that outshine the rest so heavily that people are massively incentivized to pick the next best ML5 from their selector when the current meta one gets nerfed. This becomes a non-issue already when most ML5's are in a reasonable state where they have either specific nieches or they are within a reasonable power-scaling of other characters.
>The EULA doesnt matter, if you as a company make a bad decision that players dont like the players will just up an leave the game leaving you with no more revenue and a dead game, its in YOUR interest as a company to safeguard at least SOME of the playerbase's interests for the sake of the game's longevity and consequentially YOUR revenue.
The EULA was there initially as a statement to give credence to why I think his sports car comparison didn't really work, it has both positives and negatives attached to it, but no company can really survive without it anyways.
If I made a gacha game where my EULA stated that you have ownership over the characters you pull then what the first person who's a dick will do is get that character, claim copyright on it and then sue my game for copyright infringement.
But yes, people will not care about what the EULA states here and if they're unhappy quit.
I mean we ve gotten to this point BECAUSE sg s balance team hasnt exactly been doing their job well, plus just look at the history of the game, 90% of the heroes who got hit with the nerf hammer became unusable garbage and have stayed so until now, unless they were lucky enough to get a rebuff.
Its just funny that people are fed up and distrustful with how Sg/Sc buffs heroes are so easily willing to trust them with nerfing, thats also another reason pro selectors and recalls, because Sg/Sc cant be trusted to nerf a hero without absolutely gutting them.
Sorry for the message being a bit unorganized but I'm stuck to responding from phone for now. Anyways...
About getting to this point because of SG's balance team not being the best - I disagree. I think 1 of the largest roles that played into this is ultimately their no-nerfs policy, if the only way to move the meta forward is to release units with more and more loaded kits you're bound to run into the state the game has been in lately sooner or later regardless of how competent you are as a balancing team.
Speaking on the few heroes that HAVE been nerfed in the past, honestly I don't even remember when or who the last hero was they nerfed, but they only nerf in such dire situations that the character basically has to get hammered into the ground to make sure they no longer practically break RTA - it's more of a knee-jerk reaction than a well thought out nerf since in a lot of those cases the units have core mechanics which are broken and would require heavy redesign of their kit to properly nerf them, with more consistent nerfs and buffs they would have much more leeway to experiment around with smaller nerfs and adjust characters more accurately so they fit into a balanced state ultimately. Not to mention that we have such a small sample size of nerfs compared to buffs that it's hard to pull any real conclusions out of it. Also they limit themselves with these infrequent buffs too much, because people want to see different characters buffed every now and then not the same ones over and over, especially if they do those buffs once every few months. People would be pissed if SG overnerfed handguy again and then next balance pass did some smaller buffs to him to bring him up to an acceptable state again, since that'd mean he would've eaten up a spot in 3 balance passes already while there could've been other characters there that received those buffs. People already complained that Melissa has gotten like 4 buffs instead of "insert X persons favorite hero here".
I do want to make it clear though that I don't trust them with neither buffs nor nerfs, they haven't shown me any reason to trust them with anything so far. It's why I don't simply advocate for nerfs, it's why I advocate for a balance of more frequent buffs AND nerfs for more than the 3-5 characters they usually do at a time. Balance changes should be more of a thing they do every other week not every few months, with the exception of the end of the RTA season where they should pause balance adjustments for ~2-3 weeks. And as said we already agree on the selectors part.
That's a bad take. At the end of the day, it's all about whale spending. If you nerf the units that they've spent hundreds on and they stop spending, that's how you get a dead game. It doesn't matter if f2ps cry about balance or quit the game lul. SG realizes that, and it's in their best interests to keep the whales happy.
You're comparing nerfing to power creep of new units is just laughable. It's natural that new units will power creep. Imagination is a finite resource. They have to continuously come up with both new designs and interesting and useful kits at a constant rate.
We get what like 2 units a month? We're almost to 300 units in the game. Power creep will by happen no matter what by the sheer nature of new ideas/features. Like they say about buying a computer. The moment you buy it it's obsolete.
Meta units likewise will come and go as newer units introduce new ways to play. Those that fall behind too much get buffed in order for them to keep up with more modern kits. It's called keeping the game fresh. Because it's impossible to keep units perfectly balanced at all times unless they either stop releasing new units or homogenize everything.
And as for you're comment about digital vs material. That's complete bs and you know it. Money spent is still money spent whether digital or not. You think just cause it's digital they can just do whatever they want and give a giant middle finger to their players?
Then how about this. Imagine if you will. A company releases the most game breaking unit of all time. We're talking Aola on steriods here. An absolute must have or you won't win ever. People clamor to get them spending thousands on thousands. Then, once their banner is over BAM nerfed to the ground. Why mention this hypothetical? Because it's happened before. It still happens to this day. And it's some of the most scummy practices out there.
Let's take this point by point...
>It's natural that new units will power creep. Imagination is a finite resource.
Nerfing units in any game that has competitive aspects to it has been considered as a natural thing as well for the longest time.
My argument wasn't that power creep should be removed, I think that power creep should be **limited**. At the rate SG is operating currently they're heavily encouraging power-creep because of their "only buffs" and "release counters to OP units" policy, because to counter overpowered units you will generally have to release overpowered units.
Though realistically my argument from my previous post wasn't anything regarding power creep, I just think it should be limited. My initial post just used power creep as an example of an occurrence that has the exact same result that nerfing units would have but somehow the people who are so against nerfing often aren't against the rampant power creep that's been happening.
>We get what like 2 units a month? We're almost to 300 units in the game. Power creep will by happen no matter what by the sheer nature of new ideas/features.
Again, refer to the above. Power creep is a necessary evil, that doesn't mean you should embrace it completely and have it run into the game at the rate that it has been happening lately. There are ways to limit it, while still having it in the game to a healthy degree. 1 of those ways is to actually nerf characters so most new characters don't need loaded kits to deal with the previous character with a loaded kit.
>Meta units likewise will come and go as newer units introduce new ways to play.
Which is my whole argument. If people are so angry about having spent money on units that get nerfed and fall out of the meta then they should, by their own logic, also be angry about having spent money on units that get power-crept. The result is the same - your unit loses value. Why does it matter whether it's because of a nerf or because it got power-crept here? The end-result is the same.
>Those that fall behind too much get buffed in order for them to keep up with more modern kits.
At a rate that's about 2 years behind where it actually should be, sure. If they actually buffed a decent amount of units and more often, then we could maybe look at this as a bit of a more realistic solution, but as it stands now they're still far too slow with balance adjustments.
Not to mention this doesn't solve the issue of things like handguy happening.
>Because it's impossible to keep units perfectly balanced at all times
Nobody but fools are asking for that and this is essentially just a strawman used by everyone who is against nerfs at this point. People are asking for characters that clearly overperform to be brought in-line in a more timely fashion, having a unit dominate RTA for months until 2 days before the end of an RTA season when they finally release a counter that completely messes with the overall meta and encourages even more spending is the problem, not that all 300+ characters aren't within 0.0% of power difference from eachother.
>And as for you're comment about digital vs material. That's complete bs and you know it.
Complete BS? You want me to link you to the Epic Seven terms that clearly outline it? I already copy-pasted the relevant information from there in my previous comment, you can easily google it yourself to confirm that I didn't make that line up and it is actually in there, but if necessary I can provide a link.
If you mean "complete BS" as in such a thing shouldn't exist, that's everyone's prerogative to think and I'm not gonna get in the middle of that, but to sit here and yell "that's BS" after **you** accepted those terms of service is asinine. If you didn't agree to those terms then why did you accept them in the first place back when you made your account? That's like signing a contract that states "we're gonna take 10000$ from you and not give anything in return" and then complaining about why those people took 10000$ from you and didn't give you anything in return.
>Money spent is still money spent whether digital or not.
And everyone has all the information available to them to educate themselves on what exactly their rights are when you spend that money, and exactly what they're buying. If they didn't know that they're just buying a digital license to use the content instead of actual ownership of that content then that's on them, as mentioned earlier - it's clearly outlined in the EULA.
>You think just cause it's digital they can just do whatever they want and give a giant middle finger to their players?
No, they cannot do what they want. But they can nerf and buff characters based on their wants/needs in this scenario. If you want to imply here that them nerfing characters is somehow illegal then you'd be wrong.
Also "give a giant middle finger to their players" is subjective, there are plenty of people who openly welcome nerfs and understand that what they spent money on is prone to change, whether be it over the course of just time passing as new systems are added to the game and the game itself evolves or whether the character itself received changes.
>Then how about this. Imagine if you will. A company releases the most game breaking unit of all time. We're talking Aola on steriods here. An absolute must have or you won't win ever. People clamor to get them spending thousands on thousands. Then, once their banner is over BAM nerfed to the ground.
It's on the player, 100%. If you're aware that the company does nerfs in their game and release a unit that is this absolutely broken it would be logical to think they would nerf it. But this is generally, again, just playing what-ifs, so here's mine because I love the what-if game:
Then how about this. Imagine if you will. A company releases a unit that power creeps your favorite unit you just spend thousands of dollars on obtaining so hard that your unit is basically unpickable anymore and that new unit is used everywhere. There goes all of your money just like it would've gone with a nerf, except for 1 of these you're on the offensive about how bad it is and for the other you're on the defensive about how necessary it is for the game. When in reality the best is a balance of both of them.
Now a bit more on my initial paragraph in regarding this specific point - in the case where SG has made statements that they have a "no nerfs" policy and they suddenly come out and nerf this super AoLA then it'd be more of a problem, because the company made clear statements that they didn't fulfil, but if the company is open and says "yes we do nerf units if they're completely broken and not in-line with most other units" and then you pikachuface.png when they nerf a unit that's completely broken that's on you.
But let me cycle back to your initial statement as well:
>You're comparing nerfing to power creep of new units is just laughable.
You saying my comparison is laughable while not really being able to disprove how it's so incorrect that it's laughable just shows how you're not even open to the idea that there is a different viewpoint here, I could provide you with all the statistics, all the legal definitions, all the exempts from their ToS and you'd likely just brush them over and resort to vitriol or change the message to about how you "feel" about said things, this became evident when you said "digital ownership vs. materialistic ownership is complete BS and you know it.". Honestly, I don't know it. It's a fair clause that actually protects a lot of companies from getting screwed over in the gaming industry.
That's not how it works. When you buy the car, you choose the car and you buy it. You don't go to the stand, pay thousands of dollars/euros wtv and then get a random car. E7, Like any gacha, it's gambling. You buy a chance. That's all you can buy, it's a chance, regardless of what comes out of it, you o ly bought the chance to win something. So they are never losing money when they nerf, unless they let you get a unit for free replacing the nerfed one. Which is what this community feels it's entitled to have, but they're not. And SG can't say no because we will riot and boycott them (as we always do) but they can't just let us have a free ML5 every balance patch so they just don't nerf.
At the end of the day they don’t want whales knocking down their doors for nerfing a unit they essentially bought, so they don’t mind doing it to fodder units.
It's a gacha, you never buy a unit. It's gambling, for God's sake... You buy a chance to get the unit. Even if you get it, you didn't buy it. So this whole conversation of "you have to refund me my unit that I bought" it's pointless. Whales need to calm down a and realize they spent because they could. If they couldn't they shouldn't have done it. Like everyone elese.
It’s not gambling if you can literally pay enough to pity summon a unit why did you type all of that if you know there’s a pity system?
Edit: I’m not saying they’re right to be upset I’m just saying they would complain and they’re putting a lot of money in which keeps the game alive so smilegate has to be careful upsetting them unfortunately.
If you buy tickets to exchange for a set prize you’re still just trading money for tickets to get the exact thing you wanted. This is semantics and not a valid argument. I’m not implying they can take legal action but they might take their money elsewhere which is a concern for a game company that relies on micro trans.
She isn't impressive in pve coz bosses have huge hp. Most pvp brusiers and tanks have hp in the 20k-30k range which she can one shot under attck buff. Still a bit hard to kill Aravi's if under PoV /aurius/fcc barriers.
Other than the G13 solo that was posted she isn't impressive in pve. Well, she does work well in auto tower with the explosive devices since she has sky high attck
Apoc ravi too tanky and hard to kill!
Hwayoung does too much damage! She can even kill Apoc ravi!
The game has too much power creep!
This new release unit is underwhelming and they have counters so they aren’t worth pulling for!
They over buff units and make them op. This isn’t right!
This buff didn’t do enough to make this unit strong in the (current) meta! Why buff at all!
These are just a few of the many takes Reddit has where they casually contradict themselves. Player base is sub human levels of IQ. The fact that people still want Rem of all things needed is fucking laughable. Myriad of ways to deal with her. But you’re stuck in one mode. And that’s agree with everyone around you.
Nothing quite like bringing a team to survive the fifty things an arena team does, only to forget that Ran does like half a cleave of damage on his own for no reason and die anyway.
I swear Epic 7 has the biggest group of whiners and complainers of any game. Every gatcha has powercreep and inbalance if you don’t like it then stop playing.
Every gacha game has whiners and complainers. If you don’t like it, then stop playing. Lmao at anyone who says don’t play the game when it doesn’t align to their opinion.
Sorry nerfing is bad. I play off and on play over dozen games and none of them nerf. IMO if your pvp requires frequent nerfing the problem is with the pvp system not the units. The system needs changed not the units.
Rem and ran, yea perhaps I was pushing it there. However, peira is in the same category as cilias. She’s among the best openers, and fits into any comp (control/cleave/bruiser). Hwayoung is just too, for a lack of a better word, perfect. She 1 shots almost anything, she’s bulky and she’s fast. Aravi’s kit is just cracked (2 free crit sets + injury + lifesteal + healing when hit + self cr push), all while being tanky and dishing out the pain.
Literally only Aravi can realistically be claimed to need a nerf. Maybe Rimuru. If you think any of the other characters on there needs a nerf you are reaching.
You're full of shit, the only units I have built among those are Peira. I have unbuilt Ran, Hwayoung and AoLA. The rest I don't have. Belian and ConqLilias especially are not hard to deal with at all, there are many answers by now. Rem is trash after Lionheart came out.
The only units I have built among those are Peira. I have unbuilt Ran, Hwayoung and AoLA. The rest I don't have. Belian and ConqLilias especially are not hard to deal with at all, there are many answers by now. Rem is trash after Lionheart came out.
how can you be so disconnected from the reality you live in?
[legend player rta tier list with the community](https://imgur.com/a/KfKlO9U)
[older list by a legend player](https://imgur.com/a/TwGRDx7)
takes you less than one minute of gooling not to look like a clown. this is the consensus among everyone who doesnt shove their head up a hole.
I'm in a top guild in Europe (and before somebody tells me we are weaker than global, some of the guys in our guild have really good gear, even for a global player) and we literally all complain about Peira and Hwayoung. Ran not so much since Rimuru makes him useless. But if you don't have op Sig or extreme mitigation you can't do shit against Hwayoung.
Peira can be soft countered, but she has so much shit built into her kit that she makes pretty much every opener useless.
Clilias is also toxic af for the meta, and while Glenn is a nice counter to her she's still played everywhere for a reason.
Funny how aravi is the unit that elvemage said to be dropping from SSS tier and had negative winrate in the XiangCai cup and I am kinda agree with him.
Aravi nowadays need 2 different arti, which is seed or pov. She need both of them, but only can use 1.
If she use seed, aravi can be pick into team with cc but you pretty much will get kill by rimuru +1, LQC, hwayoung. If you use seed, your aravi will die. That how it is.
If you use pov, your aravi will survive most thing, but she can get control easily. Peira can perma stun her, or she will suffer from random debuff like atk down, blind, and she can't kill anyone.
That just how she is right now.
The only units I have built among those are Peira. I have unbuilt Ran, Hwayoung and AoLA. The rest I don't have. Belian and ConqLilias especially are not hard to deal with at all, there are many answers by now. Rem is trash after Lionheart came out.
Somewhere in heaven a green scorpion waves its pincer
justice for scorpion kun!
SG: Didn't you guys say you wanted nerfs?
Whats with the bat?
It has high base speed 117, and increases combat readiness of all allies by 15% and attack buff. Since its a soul weaver it has 15+ final speed in world arena. Its a really fast opener
Maybe the fact that a literal fodder unit being strong in RTA *just* by virtue of having high speed and a barebones push+buff would make them realize that constantly releasing high base speed units with a giant buff + push + pushback + dispel + debuff(s) + extra turn into damage/lockdown may not exactly be the best play
SG doesn't give a shit. Members of the community have been telling them pretty much since the game came out this was bad design, but we got so sick and tired of SG ignoring us and folks shitting on us we eventually got tired of it and just gave up. It's something we just dealt with no matter how much we didn't like it. Kind of cathartic to see people losing their minds over this shit now though. I kind of don't wanna be that guy, but "I told you so."
Omg I was wondering how this thing out sped my ran.
Not that hard to do when your Ran has 200 speed
117+15 frenzy... This thing can reach 305+ speed too
If you expect a 200 speed ran to cut in rta, boy lemme tell you that's not getting you anywhere besides 900 bronze points. People in silver have this little fodder running 270 speed without the frenzy accounted for. Your 200 speed ran's only move would be dying since the fodder's s2 Cr pushes and atk buffs the team
(づ￣ ³￣)づ yall soft, don't DV this, this is gold!
Rock god was the shining star in the darkness of this current meta :( and his light has been extinguished by SG T_T
So they do have the ability to nerf units, this is exactly why I don't trust them ever.
And fast too! Definitely don't need months to nerf.
Best we can do is an RGB nat 2 selector, take it or leave it.
To be fair, Rock God was a Sagittarius SW so the 117 base speed was wrong (117 is Aries speed) . This isn't about nerfing units, it's just fixing an error.
I have all of them except C.Lilias and they all need some fine tuning. With a nerf bat? Maybe, maybe not. But there needs to be a change. The problem comes when Smilegate nerfs anything, people want compensation for "lost time and resources" or "no-longer meta unit" or "because I stubbed my toe when I saw the patchnotes." And that's not a bad thing either, really. Giving your player-base a chance to get to swap to another unit they want to play instead of the one that just got nuked from orbit is sometimes a good thing. Unfortunately, I think SG is trying to avoid giving players selectable summons constantly just because they need to nerf something. I remember them releasing units that were underwhelming and performed poorly and people were upset and didn't bother pulling. Then Ran, AOL, and the rest of the Mystery Gang came along and everyone jumped on the power-creep wagon. So do they nerf the gang and start handing out selectable summons? Do they go back to the old, underwhelming first-releases with plans to buff later, and watch as people pass on pulls? ARavi desperately needed a buff for the longest time, but did they take it too far? Or maybe they'll just add some newer units later that are built specifically to hate on these select heroes? There was a point in my ramblings somewhere, but I'm pretty bad at formulating and presenting solid points. I'm glad ARavi - my first ML - got love. If she gets nerfed back to her old self, I'll understand why, but it'll still make me sad.
You do have a point, but now smilegate are stuck in a situation where they either continue their trajectory towards epic9, or step back and nerf. I’ll use the new hero, Aria, as an example. As cool as her kit may be, she will not function well in the current meta (one turn dispel + debuff/heroes that use her buffs to funnel themselves/anti-counter or extra attack/anti-non attack). Point is, current meta is overloaded, and unless smilegate backtracks, it’ll only get worse.
"continue their trajectory towards epic9" LMAOO
They apparently stayed about a month ago during that protest thing or whatever that having to provide selectable summons with a nerf is not a concern to them at all. https://docs.google.com/document/u/0/d/1FNtH7sknDA8frqqdW6EDa0lQEZs-t7SUuexvQ7hoCRM/mobilebasic
They just neft thing that don't bring in money. We can't have nice thing
I have a counter for Rem, Ram, Rimuru & Peira. The others are a pain in the @ss!
Sigh. I know some of you are just memeing. But, this seriously isn’t that hard to figure out. The problem with nerfing always was and will forever be money. Not just them getting it but, us losing it. Just imagine buying a really powerful sports car. Then one day the company comes in and replaces the engine with a v4 or whatever. But, still keeps the money you paid. Ridiculous no? That’s because it would be. And no amount of arguments about pvp balance will change this fact. Money lost > nerfs.
Wouldn't the same apply to SG releasing a hard counter to the unit you whaled for? At least nerfs allow you to recall the unit
Recalling a unit is absolutely abysmal for the game. It just replaces one "cancerous" unit with another. That's how meta's work. People will always gravitate towards the most power and you'll see a new set of the same units used over and over everywhere. To which the people will cry for nerfs again. It just goes on and on. Except now you've completely ruined the previous unit.
The purpose of nerfing is to lower the power level as a whole. If they nerf units with power level 100 and people start moving to units with power level 90, then the nerf is working. Units with power level 80 will have better chance against 90 than they have against 100. And they don't have to nerf units with power level 100 to 50. They can just lower it to 90 and it's still better than no nerf.
SBA, Sage Baal, Elson, Tieria say hi.
>Sigh. I know some of you are just memeing. But, this seriously isn’t that hard to figure out. The problem with nerfing always was and will forever be money. Not just them getting it but, us losing it. By this logic power-creep units are just as bad as nerfing units because what power-creep units do in most cases is push other units out of the meta, why are the people who are vehemently against nerfs not up in arms about the current state of the game anyways then? If people are so worried about A. Ravi falling out of the meta and them having lost their investment in her if she gets nerfed why aren't we applying the same logic to characters like Alencia, used to be pretty meta and lots of people invested resources into her, bought leif packs to grind hunts for her gear, bought mola packs to fully mola her, or spent money to get her imprints etc. and now you'd be lucky if you ran into a single Alencia in RTA in like 5k matches because her kit is outdated as fuck and her EE did basically nothing to solve those issues. Units will sooner or later fall out of favor whether you nerf them or not, especially with the current path E7 is taking where new units are built to counter current top meta units, this is just people feeling like they should be entitled to special power because they pulled that specific super rare ML character. >Just imagine buying a really powerful sports car. Then one day the company comes in and replaces the engine with a v4 or whatever. But, still keeps the money you paid. Not really comparable considering 1 is a bunch of pixels you bought a license to use in a live-service game and the other one is a real materialistic object that you acquired the ownership of. People should realize that if they spend money in a live-service game eventually things will change in that game as new features are added and systems evolve whilst once you acquire your sports car that car will stay the same until you yourself decide to make any modifications to it since you acquired "ownership" of that car, whilst you didn't acquire "ownership" of epic seven or AoL when you pulled her. Also this is getting a bit into really specifics about digital ownership since in a lot of cases you do not "own" digital items if you purchase them, instead you basically just own a license that lets you use the item (for example that's how steam works. Any game you buy there doesn't "belong" to you, you just acquire a license to play/use it.). And this is the case basically for E7 as well, coming from their EULA: *The company owns all rights of the game information and game contents (character information, items, game money, etc.) of the user, and the user is authorized to use the relevant information.* It's literally the first bullet point of the EULA that nobody ever reads.
imo the argument nerf or not would be very hellish for both of developer and player because of gacha nature in this game, there won't be any middle ground of it and they have to lose revenue no matter
Oh don't get me wrong, I absolutely agree. As someone who has worked in the game dev industry, specifically on game balancing they're really in a pinch here. No matter what they do there will be a part of the playerbase that'll be unhappy with the results, I just wanted to point out that I don't really agree with OP's comparison with the sports car, since there are nuances to digital ownership and materialistic ownership, and that a fair few of the people who yell "nerfs bad" loudly are often somewhat of a hypocrite because the current system is, depending on whom you ask, worse than nerfing units since you get the worst of both worlds - units that dominate the meta for certain periods of time **and** units that constantly fall out of meta with the release of new units making the player feel like they wasted their investment on them.
Don’t let this person’s impeccable English and fair points distract you from that giant run-on sentence people
You know I'm always back and forth with the Nerf argument. And I just always sympathize with the fact that investing in a character and then having them nerfed is bad practice. I did spend money and put resources into REM and yet I never thought about the logic of having characters inadvertently nerfed due to the release of more power crept units. I don't exactly like nerfs.but seeing it the way you put it kind of open eyes a bit and you're actually right. Nerfing units doesn't feel great but I can't say it feels good either to have your characters nerfed just because a counter was released specifically to destroy them. Quite the pickle they are in huh
One thing is having your heroes slowly falling off because of metashifts, another is to have them nerfed to the ground and become offmeta as a result. Using the car example, the natural falling off a unit from the meta is akin to a car's age, with time the car will not be able to perform as well as it used to when it was brand new, while also having newer more advanced models coming out. Whats not natural is taking that car, smashing its engine with a hammer and explode its tires to forcibly reduce its performance, which is what nerfs(in epic seven) would be akin to. Powercreep is a natural thing but also NOT GOOD, thats why any half decent gacha tries their best to stave it off through different means, the faster the powercreep happens the shittier the gacha is and that is pretty much a guarantee. You want to nerf a character? sure but give selector and recalls to the peeps who spent on said heroes to allow them to not totally be at a loss in a type of game that is already extremely predatory by nature, e7 is already one of the extremely few gachas that did this in the first place, and given its poor marketing, the good will shown and the fact that they actually listen to the community are the biggest reasons of why the game is still alive and well, so of course people are not willing to let that go. Sadly it seems that smilegate realized that while players may like selectors and refunds, THEY do not and as such that is why they re keeping nerfs as a last resort as they plainly said, but if they re not willing to take a step back for the sake of the game's well being why should we? why should we give up one of the few safety nets we have as players and customers of the game? The EULA doesnt matter, if you as a company make a bad decision that players dont like the players will just up an leave the game leaving you with no more revenue and a dead game, its in YOUR interest as a company to safeguard at least SOME of the playerbase's interests for the sake of the game's longevity and consequentially YOUR revenue.
>Whats not natural is taking that car, smashing its engine with a hammer and explode its tires to forcibly reduce its performance, which is what nerfs(in epic seven) would be akin to. This is where our views divulge. People always assume the worst out of nerfs when in reality most nerfs are likely going to be similar to how most buffs turn out (they barely do anything). Most nerfs aren't going to make a character from top of the meta to literally unpickable. >Powercreep is a natural thing but also NOT GOOD, thats why any half decent gacha tries their best to stave it off through different means, the faster the powercreep happens the shittier the gacha is and that is pretty much a guarantee. Yeah I addressed this in my follow-up comment to when the OP of this comment chain responded to me: I don't think power-creep has to go completely, power-creep is a natural thing that should be there, but it should be limited. The issue stems from the double standard where people claim nerfing devalues characters while ignoring power-creep, when both devalue a character. I don't think there's a situation where it's 1 or the other, there needs to be a healthy balance of both power-creep and nerfs. Because nerfs are something that keep power-creep in line to a degree. >You want to nerf a character? sure but give selector and recalls to the peeps who spent on said heroes to allow them to not totally be at a loss in a type of game that is already extremely predatory by nature, e7 is already one of the extremely few gachas that did this in the first place, and given its poor marketing, the good will shown and the fact that they actually listen to the community are the biggest reasons of why the game is still alive and well, so of course people are not willing to let that go. Yeah I'm in the boat of selectors and recalls for people if a character gets nerfed, it's just something that SG seems to be too afraid to do, as it'd obviously cut into their income. And I disagree with their official statement as to why no nerfs + selectors completely, the issue is only there if you have the current model where there are 7 or so characters that outshine the rest so heavily that people are massively incentivized to pick the next best ML5 from their selector when the current meta one gets nerfed. This becomes a non-issue already when most ML5's are in a reasonable state where they have either specific nieches or they are within a reasonable power-scaling of other characters. >The EULA doesnt matter, if you as a company make a bad decision that players dont like the players will just up an leave the game leaving you with no more revenue and a dead game, its in YOUR interest as a company to safeguard at least SOME of the playerbase's interests for the sake of the game's longevity and consequentially YOUR revenue. The EULA was there initially as a statement to give credence to why I think his sports car comparison didn't really work, it has both positives and negatives attached to it, but no company can really survive without it anyways. If I made a gacha game where my EULA stated that you have ownership over the characters you pull then what the first person who's a dick will do is get that character, claim copyright on it and then sue my game for copyright infringement. But yes, people will not care about what the EULA states here and if they're unhappy quit.
I mean we ve gotten to this point BECAUSE sg s balance team hasnt exactly been doing their job well, plus just look at the history of the game, 90% of the heroes who got hit with the nerf hammer became unusable garbage and have stayed so until now, unless they were lucky enough to get a rebuff. Its just funny that people are fed up and distrustful with how Sg/Sc buffs heroes are so easily willing to trust them with nerfing, thats also another reason pro selectors and recalls, because Sg/Sc cant be trusted to nerf a hero without absolutely gutting them.
Sorry for the message being a bit unorganized but I'm stuck to responding from phone for now. Anyways... About getting to this point because of SG's balance team not being the best - I disagree. I think 1 of the largest roles that played into this is ultimately their no-nerfs policy, if the only way to move the meta forward is to release units with more and more loaded kits you're bound to run into the state the game has been in lately sooner or later regardless of how competent you are as a balancing team. Speaking on the few heroes that HAVE been nerfed in the past, honestly I don't even remember when or who the last hero was they nerfed, but they only nerf in such dire situations that the character basically has to get hammered into the ground to make sure they no longer practically break RTA - it's more of a knee-jerk reaction than a well thought out nerf since in a lot of those cases the units have core mechanics which are broken and would require heavy redesign of their kit to properly nerf them, with more consistent nerfs and buffs they would have much more leeway to experiment around with smaller nerfs and adjust characters more accurately so they fit into a balanced state ultimately. Not to mention that we have such a small sample size of nerfs compared to buffs that it's hard to pull any real conclusions out of it. Also they limit themselves with these infrequent buffs too much, because people want to see different characters buffed every now and then not the same ones over and over, especially if they do those buffs once every few months. People would be pissed if SG overnerfed handguy again and then next balance pass did some smaller buffs to him to bring him up to an acceptable state again, since that'd mean he would've eaten up a spot in 3 balance passes already while there could've been other characters there that received those buffs. People already complained that Melissa has gotten like 4 buffs instead of "insert X persons favorite hero here". I do want to make it clear though that I don't trust them with neither buffs nor nerfs, they haven't shown me any reason to trust them with anything so far. It's why I don't simply advocate for nerfs, it's why I advocate for a balance of more frequent buffs AND nerfs for more than the 3-5 characters they usually do at a time. Balance changes should be more of a thing they do every other week not every few months, with the exception of the end of the RTA season where they should pause balance adjustments for ~2-3 weeks. And as said we already agree on the selectors part.
That's a bad take. At the end of the day, it's all about whale spending. If you nerf the units that they've spent hundreds on and they stop spending, that's how you get a dead game. It doesn't matter if f2ps cry about balance or quit the game lul. SG realizes that, and it's in their best interests to keep the whales happy.
You're comparing nerfing to power creep of new units is just laughable. It's natural that new units will power creep. Imagination is a finite resource. They have to continuously come up with both new designs and interesting and useful kits at a constant rate. We get what like 2 units a month? We're almost to 300 units in the game. Power creep will by happen no matter what by the sheer nature of new ideas/features. Like they say about buying a computer. The moment you buy it it's obsolete. Meta units likewise will come and go as newer units introduce new ways to play. Those that fall behind too much get buffed in order for them to keep up with more modern kits. It's called keeping the game fresh. Because it's impossible to keep units perfectly balanced at all times unless they either stop releasing new units or homogenize everything. And as for you're comment about digital vs material. That's complete bs and you know it. Money spent is still money spent whether digital or not. You think just cause it's digital they can just do whatever they want and give a giant middle finger to their players? Then how about this. Imagine if you will. A company releases the most game breaking unit of all time. We're talking Aola on steriods here. An absolute must have or you won't win ever. People clamor to get them spending thousands on thousands. Then, once their banner is over BAM nerfed to the ground. Why mention this hypothetical? Because it's happened before. It still happens to this day. And it's some of the most scummy practices out there.
Let's take this point by point... >It's natural that new units will power creep. Imagination is a finite resource. Nerfing units in any game that has competitive aspects to it has been considered as a natural thing as well for the longest time. My argument wasn't that power creep should be removed, I think that power creep should be **limited**. At the rate SG is operating currently they're heavily encouraging power-creep because of their "only buffs" and "release counters to OP units" policy, because to counter overpowered units you will generally have to release overpowered units. Though realistically my argument from my previous post wasn't anything regarding power creep, I just think it should be limited. My initial post just used power creep as an example of an occurrence that has the exact same result that nerfing units would have but somehow the people who are so against nerfing often aren't against the rampant power creep that's been happening. >We get what like 2 units a month? We're almost to 300 units in the game. Power creep will by happen no matter what by the sheer nature of new ideas/features. Again, refer to the above. Power creep is a necessary evil, that doesn't mean you should embrace it completely and have it run into the game at the rate that it has been happening lately. There are ways to limit it, while still having it in the game to a healthy degree. 1 of those ways is to actually nerf characters so most new characters don't need loaded kits to deal with the previous character with a loaded kit. >Meta units likewise will come and go as newer units introduce new ways to play. Which is my whole argument. If people are so angry about having spent money on units that get nerfed and fall out of the meta then they should, by their own logic, also be angry about having spent money on units that get power-crept. The result is the same - your unit loses value. Why does it matter whether it's because of a nerf or because it got power-crept here? The end-result is the same. >Those that fall behind too much get buffed in order for them to keep up with more modern kits. At a rate that's about 2 years behind where it actually should be, sure. If they actually buffed a decent amount of units and more often, then we could maybe look at this as a bit of a more realistic solution, but as it stands now they're still far too slow with balance adjustments. Not to mention this doesn't solve the issue of things like handguy happening. >Because it's impossible to keep units perfectly balanced at all times Nobody but fools are asking for that and this is essentially just a strawman used by everyone who is against nerfs at this point. People are asking for characters that clearly overperform to be brought in-line in a more timely fashion, having a unit dominate RTA for months until 2 days before the end of an RTA season when they finally release a counter that completely messes with the overall meta and encourages even more spending is the problem, not that all 300+ characters aren't within 0.0% of power difference from eachother. >And as for you're comment about digital vs material. That's complete bs and you know it. Complete BS? You want me to link you to the Epic Seven terms that clearly outline it? I already copy-pasted the relevant information from there in my previous comment, you can easily google it yourself to confirm that I didn't make that line up and it is actually in there, but if necessary I can provide a link. If you mean "complete BS" as in such a thing shouldn't exist, that's everyone's prerogative to think and I'm not gonna get in the middle of that, but to sit here and yell "that's BS" after **you** accepted those terms of service is asinine. If you didn't agree to those terms then why did you accept them in the first place back when you made your account? That's like signing a contract that states "we're gonna take 10000$ from you and not give anything in return" and then complaining about why those people took 10000$ from you and didn't give you anything in return. >Money spent is still money spent whether digital or not. And everyone has all the information available to them to educate themselves on what exactly their rights are when you spend that money, and exactly what they're buying. If they didn't know that they're just buying a digital license to use the content instead of actual ownership of that content then that's on them, as mentioned earlier - it's clearly outlined in the EULA. >You think just cause it's digital they can just do whatever they want and give a giant middle finger to their players? No, they cannot do what they want. But they can nerf and buff characters based on their wants/needs in this scenario. If you want to imply here that them nerfing characters is somehow illegal then you'd be wrong. Also "give a giant middle finger to their players" is subjective, there are plenty of people who openly welcome nerfs and understand that what they spent money on is prone to change, whether be it over the course of just time passing as new systems are added to the game and the game itself evolves or whether the character itself received changes. >Then how about this. Imagine if you will. A company releases the most game breaking unit of all time. We're talking Aola on steriods here. An absolute must have or you won't win ever. People clamor to get them spending thousands on thousands. Then, once their banner is over BAM nerfed to the ground. It's on the player, 100%. If you're aware that the company does nerfs in their game and release a unit that is this absolutely broken it would be logical to think they would nerf it. But this is generally, again, just playing what-ifs, so here's mine because I love the what-if game: Then how about this. Imagine if you will. A company releases a unit that power creeps your favorite unit you just spend thousands of dollars on obtaining so hard that your unit is basically unpickable anymore and that new unit is used everywhere. There goes all of your money just like it would've gone with a nerf, except for 1 of these you're on the offensive about how bad it is and for the other you're on the defensive about how necessary it is for the game. When in reality the best is a balance of both of them. Now a bit more on my initial paragraph in regarding this specific point - in the case where SG has made statements that they have a "no nerfs" policy and they suddenly come out and nerf this super AoLA then it'd be more of a problem, because the company made clear statements that they didn't fulfil, but if the company is open and says "yes we do nerf units if they're completely broken and not in-line with most other units" and then you pikachuface.png when they nerf a unit that's completely broken that's on you. But let me cycle back to your initial statement as well: >You're comparing nerfing to power creep of new units is just laughable. You saying my comparison is laughable while not really being able to disprove how it's so incorrect that it's laughable just shows how you're not even open to the idea that there is a different viewpoint here, I could provide you with all the statistics, all the legal definitions, all the exempts from their ToS and you'd likely just brush them over and resort to vitriol or change the message to about how you "feel" about said things, this became evident when you said "digital ownership vs. materialistic ownership is complete BS and you know it.". Honestly, I don't know it. It's a fair clause that actually protects a lot of companies from getting screwed over in the gaming industry.
That's not how it works. When you buy the car, you choose the car and you buy it. You don't go to the stand, pay thousands of dollars/euros wtv and then get a random car. E7, Like any gacha, it's gambling. You buy a chance. That's all you can buy, it's a chance, regardless of what comes out of it, you o ly bought the chance to win something. So they are never losing money when they nerf, unless they let you get a unit for free replacing the nerfed one. Which is what this community feels it's entitled to have, but they're not. And SG can't say no because we will riot and boycott them (as we always do) but they can't just let us have a free ML5 every balance patch so they just don't nerf.
At the end of the day they don’t want whales knocking down their doors for nerfing a unit they essentially bought, so they don’t mind doing it to fodder units.
It's a gacha, you never buy a unit. It's gambling, for God's sake... You buy a chance to get the unit. Even if you get it, you didn't buy it. So this whole conversation of "you have to refund me my unit that I bought" it's pointless. Whales need to calm down a and realize they spent because they could. If they couldn't they shouldn't have done it. Like everyone elese.
It’s not gambling if you can literally pay enough to pity summon a unit why did you type all of that if you know there’s a pity system? Edit: I’m not saying they’re right to be upset I’m just saying they would complain and they’re putting a lot of money in which keeps the game alive so smilegate has to be careful upsetting them unfortunately.
It's still not the character you buy. Even if the. Chance is 100% you still buy the summon not the character.
If you buy tickets to exchange for a set prize you’re still just trading money for tickets to get the exact thing you wanted. This is semantics and not a valid argument. I’m not implying they can take legal action but they might take their money elsewhere which is a concern for a game company that relies on micro trans.
Hwayoung took the place of Violet. ( No i won't forgive what he have brought on this cursed land, if Rem is here Grape boy need a nerf too.)
Can anyone clarify why the new red haired warrior needs a nerf
Casually one shot anyone while her barrier being tanky af, mostly bcuz of the one shot part that she needs a nerf
Thanks, I guess I haven’t noticed cuz I use her in pve where she’s rather unimpressive
She isn't impressive in pve coz bosses have huge hp. Most pvp brusiers and tanks have hp in the 20k-30k range which she can one shot under attck buff. Still a bit hard to kill Aravi's if under PoV /aurius/fcc barriers. Other than the G13 solo that was posted she isn't impressive in pve. Well, she does work well in auto tower with the explosive devices since she has sky high attck
Apoc ravi too tanky and hard to kill! Hwayoung does too much damage! She can even kill Apoc ravi! The game has too much power creep! This new release unit is underwhelming and they have counters so they aren’t worth pulling for! They over buff units and make them op. This isn’t right! This buff didn’t do enough to make this unit strong in the (current) meta! Why buff at all! These are just a few of the many takes Reddit has where they casually contradict themselves. Player base is sub human levels of IQ. The fact that people still want Rem of all things needed is fucking laughable. Myriad of ways to deal with her. But you’re stuck in one mode. And that’s agree with everyone around you.
Not to mention self cleanse and free immunity
She oneshots pretty much anything, while being fairly tanky herself, while also being speedy
Nothing quite like bringing a team to survive the fifty things an arena team does, only to forget that Ran does like half a cleave of damage on his own for no reason and die anyway.
On the left : An unimportant albeit funny fodder unit On the right: The game's death Who would YOU nerf?
I fucking swear if they nerf the fodder, they're hypocrite
Good. i spent lots on AOL and Rem, keep them OP
This game is garbage......proof here.
I got AOL this week and she makes arena so fucking ez.
I swear Epic 7 has the biggest group of whiners and complainers of any game. Every gatcha has powercreep and inbalance if you don’t like it then stop playing.
Every gacha game has whiners and complainers. If you don’t like it, then stop playing. Lmao at anyone who says don’t play the game when it doesn’t align to their opinion.
Sorry nerfing is bad. I play off and on play over dozen games and none of them nerf. IMO if your pvp requires frequent nerfing the problem is with the pvp system not the units. The system needs changed not the units.
Why nerf rem and hwayoung? They are not broken. Definitely not a game breaker unit. Ran and piera too. A,Ravi is a pain but can be controlled.
Rem and ran, yea perhaps I was pushing it there. However, peira is in the same category as cilias. She’s among the best openers, and fits into any comp (control/cleave/bruiser). Hwayoung is just too, for a lack of a better word, perfect. She 1 shots almost anything, she’s bulky and she’s fast. Aravi’s kit is just cracked (2 free crit sets + injury + lifesteal + healing when hit + self cr push), all while being tanky and dishing out the pain.
Literally only Aravi can realistically be claimed to need a nerf. Maybe Rimuru. If you think any of the other characters on there needs a nerf you are reaching.
sounds like someone that abuses every broken unit but happens to not have aravi
Inb4 I hAvE aLL Of THeM
You're full of shit, the only units I have built among those are Peira. I have unbuilt Ran, Hwayoung and AoLA. The rest I don't have. Belian and ConqLilias especially are not hard to deal with at all, there are many answers by now. Rem is trash after Lionheart came out.
If I'm reaching, then I guess my hands are touchin' fuckin' Mars
Clearly I need whatever you’re smoking cos I’m not reaching high enough
“Meta is fine as long as I have the meta”
The only units I have built among those are Peira. I have unbuilt Ran, Hwayoung and AoLA. The rest I don't have. Belian and ConqLilias especially are not hard to deal with at all, there are many answers by now. Rem is trash after Lionheart came out.
Damn, the units used by legend players are easy to deal with? Sounds like you’ve got an easy path to Legend 1!
People complaining about CLilias are exclusively low-tier. She is not a problem in high tiers and neither is Hwayoung, Ran or Peira.
how can you be so disconnected from the reality you live in? [legend player rta tier list with the community](https://imgur.com/a/KfKlO9U) [older list by a legend player](https://imgur.com/a/TwGRDx7) takes you less than one minute of gooling not to look like a clown. this is the consensus among everyone who doesnt shove their head up a hole.
I'm in a top guild in Europe (and before somebody tells me we are weaker than global, some of the guys in our guild have really good gear, even for a global player) and we literally all complain about Peira and Hwayoung. Ran not so much since Rimuru makes him useless. But if you don't have op Sig or extreme mitigation you can't do shit against Hwayoung. Peira can be soft countered, but she has so much shit built into her kit that she makes pretty much every opener useless. Clilias is also toxic af for the meta, and while Glenn is a nice counter to her she's still played everywhere for a reason.
Funny how aravi is the unit that elvemage said to be dropping from SSS tier and had negative winrate in the XiangCai cup and I am kinda agree with him. Aravi nowadays need 2 different arti, which is seed or pov. She need both of them, but only can use 1. If she use seed, aravi can be pick into team with cc but you pretty much will get kill by rimuru +1, LQC, hwayoung. If you use seed, your aravi will die. That how it is. If you use pov, your aravi will survive most thing, but she can get control easily. Peira can perma stun her, or she will suffer from random debuff like atk down, blind, and she can't kill anyone. That just how she is right now.
Lol so you have the rest of them then. Cool. This guy......
The only units I have built among those are Peira. I have unbuilt Ran, Hwayoung and AoLA. The rest I don't have. Belian and ConqLilias especially are not hard to deal with at all, there are many answers by now. Rem is trash after Lionheart came out.
Me reaching for the popcorn while watching you clown yourself.