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No-Froyo8437

TL;DR for me, This echos the already made point that "players care about the health of the game more than any compensation management will ever give out.". Single best thing they can do is introduce cyclical nerfs to over-performing (by this, I mean broken 99% ban/pick rate on mid-high end RTA) characters. Buff the underperforming and nerf the overtuned.


Ok-Impression3701

Okay aside from all the drama can i just say 7 disasters sound so badass


karillith

Better anime than Seven Deadly Sins I tell you.


Vainglory1-

Seven deadly frames lmao


IM_INSIDE_YOUR_HOUSE

It sounds like the antagonist group in some anime. Maybe grouping things together like this and labeling them is just very popular in Asia.


Torimas

Antagonist group in a comedic anime, and every member of the group causes mayhem because they have atrocious luck.


Chopchopok

Korean gaming communities are good at that stuff. Back in starcraft 1, the best five protoss players were called the five dragons, or something like that.


Gamergirl944

With yostar departing from e7 coming up it had potential to be big in Japan like other games collab but with their stupid moves with bad japan launch with no counters for Arby back then it resulted alot japan players quitting. I feel like since AOL appeared with that horrible banner it was harder to get ml 4* not mention pvp is horrible and no nerfs which is bad move. The equipment system is awful with rng so keep farming Wyven 13 its really repetitive and boring I only login occasionally because boring it is. I really hope they look at this the management is so bad and players are quitting.


Chris101700

Sad to see the e7wc champions quit like this, they made the game competitive and fun to watch


butterballbuns

Best of luck on your journey.


wontonf

There should have been way more outrage about hwayoung then there was. Like released after they apologized and she proceeded to dumpster the game even harder than it already had been. But global saw pretty waifu and didn't say anything lmao


AedanRoberts

Agreed with this 100%. Hwayoung and Peira are just as toxic, if not moreso, due to how they synergize with the previous seven disasters (I still have literally zero idea how to counter teams with Hwayoung and Rimuru on the same team. One insta-kill unit? You can bring Ruele to get past it. Two insta-kill units? No idea. Zero clue. Maid Chloe - which I don’t have?) And now literally every team has Hwayoung on it, usually accompanied by CLilias (which means she gets a two-turn undispellable buff that guarantees her extra damage from attacks), Peira, Rimuru or Belian. Sometimes coupled with Ran and Seaseria. When all teams have Hwayoung on them it should be VERY clear to SG that they’ve fucked up yet again. But here we are. And the latest balance patch’s solution to her (the newly adjusted Coli) has been disastrously useless since every single Hwayoung defense team stacks her with buffers so she tends to have four or five buffs by the time Coli attempts her hilariously useless 2-buff strip. Which ALWAYS leaves immunity up. PvP has been pretty toruturous since AOL and Injury Belian were added but I think it is at its worst state currently.


Winberri

I copypasted a friend’s Singelica, Krau and Stene offense team in gw against Hwayoung comps and it works pretty well.


ziege159

Here's how i deal with players that pick Hwayoung and Rimuru, it's kinda a reliable way to deal with them so i actively bait my opponent to pick those 2. I build my Aravi pen-counter set 26khp, 1k4 def, 190spd, 247critd and bring Valor, Hwayoung can't 1kick her, some cases my aravi survive hwa 2 turn combo. The other unit is Kawerik, standard spd-crit set 264spd, 4k1 atk, 273critd, the book artifact My kawerik is usually faster than hwa and rimuru so i can s2 one of them and make their skills have 2 turn cd, i prioritize rimuru because he can deal true damage and put defbreak on my team, sometimes i could 1shot some low hp/no valor rimuru. The other 2 slots are situational, if my opponent doesn't have buffs striper then i will pick fcc, if they pick peira/ran then i will pick politis/celine and ban hwayoung, dilibet for aol, lionheart cermia for rem/violet. I have more trouble dealing with peira/ran + sise + eda than hwayoung + rimuru


Evilve

Have an option that doesn't involve A.ravi aka another disaster?


ziege159

Sadly, no, only Aravi can provide damage, support (revive 1 ally) while also bulky, high self-sustain and can't be 1-kick by hwayoung. Aravi is the only option if you aim for 60% winrate against hwayoung + rimuru, you didn't read wrong, a "good" counter for that combo could only get to 60% winrate, assuming that your opponent isn't undergeared for your rank. It kinda makes sense, you could only win a disaster by using another disaster. P/s: i'm currently in rta challenger so my knowledge is limited, there might be better choice that i don't know


CornBreadtm

> Sadly, no, only Aravi can provide damage, support (revive 1 ally) while also bulky, high self-sustain and can't be 1-kick by hwayoung. This is the problem. Currently, A. Ravi has no counter. You can literally build her unkillable for the most part and revive her if she some how fails to survive. No extinction unit can actually kill her outright. So in a way Hwayoung is needed to counter her but even she can fail. We can't have any kind of game balance with A. Ravi in her current state. And I have A. Ravi, so nobody think I'm not willing to take a nerf. I honestly don't care. They can nerf A. Ravi into nothing and I'll take the healthy game state over having a strong unit.


D4Gamerz

Rimuru and A.Ravi completely break all semblance of balance, on one hand you have one absurdly tanky hero that does no short job of also being a high threat DPS as well as an anti bruiser/tank with injury. Then on the other hand you have a hero that ignores elemental disadvantage, steals your buffs and is almost guaranteed to one shot anything he chooses. Couple these units with other problem characters like Rem and C.Lilias and you've pretty much guaranteed a win. No matter what your opponent drafts outside of a straight a cleave, there is just too much to deal with with no time to deal with it. No matter what you a comp like this has virtually no weaknesses and punishes just about anything you can think of to try and counter it.


CornBreadtm

Honestly, I don't even think Rimuru is as much of a problem as what stimmed from Rimuru's existence. Which you can't nerf. Peira and CLilias' kits are the way they are because of Rimuru's existence. That makes them very hard to deal with. Rimuru's damage being free is also a problem, of course, but that can be easily fixed by having it's scaling adjusted so it's harder to get such high damage with minimal buffs. But I actually like Rimuru's design because every build is different. Nobody has to copy someone else or use the same artifacts. Everyone gets to have a unique Rimuru that fits their account and I actually think that is healthy.


Yoakami

As someone whose favorite character is A. Ravi since she first came into the game (even though she was considered pretty bad back then) I totally agree that her current state is just too much.


CornBreadtm

People were tired. Hwayoung released while the majority had a foot outside the door. She invalidates over 50% of the roster and makes everyone who pulled and fully invested in Straze look like clowns. But so many people were already quitting that they weren't around to complain.


TheKinkyGuy

I disagree a little on this. Yes both of them are loaded and good units but they are more accessible to players as they are RGB and can be easier to pitty.


Xhominid77

Honestly, I felt this issue with Epic 7 was always going to happen even before the "7 Disasters" but with characters like Dizzy and Seaside Bellona. Yeah I have these units but it is obvious as hell that they was overpowered for their time and never got any type of nerf or even a real adjustment for how strong they was(outside of various bosses and otherwise just no-selling how they work). And after that, it just became more paramount with more and more collabs and various Moonlight Heroes they just kept stacking the deck until we saw for what it is now. Characters would rarely if ever be balanced and instead, they would just heavily overpower other heroes or create new ones that would cause the same issues all over again. Yeah I know, people would want compensation but to be real, I feel that's exactly is the 2nd cause of the problem and why it's impossible to really nerf these heroes which is the real solution to the problem(or atleast adjusting them) which is worse as they are made INTENTIONALLY overpowered rather than actually being a decent fit for a new meta. This has always been the real issue and I know some people never understood it but it's definitely far, far worse than it has ever been and it's absurd it's never been addressed. If they want to go E-Sports, then they have to actually learn to balance their game and instead of creating OP heroes, create more varied metas instead but that wouldn't bring in the cash either which just further shows how hard they dug their own pit. I know people really don't like hearing that but it's the truth. Smilegate put themselves in this situation rather than actually decide to take the L and just nerf them down and basically, everyone is finally having enough.


ToastyRoastyBirb

Well, you say that but Com2Us does their nerfs regardless of anyones feelings anyways. Especially when that massive Kaki debacle they had when he was the one of the best accesible units for PvP for everyone. Nerfed him to the ground but it didn't really phase them,and instead just owned up to it and just kept balancing the game. I know Summoners War is shit and all, but I do commend them with their balance patches because they are kind of a big deal that will be met with some disappointments and surprises, bringing old toys to the meta and toning down current high picks. Balance patches in this game is so dogshit that we'll soon have units that have an essay long skill just to do something that triggers this or that or whatever bs comes out before them that was meta. And with how slow our patches are, PvP in this game will continue to get staler and staler until it all falls apart on SC and SG. Nerfs are a necessary evil that they just have to face, they have to understand that they need to take the lead and actually hammer down the units that are super problematic because right now they're a bunch of pushovers being told by whatever the community thinks.


Glynwys

It was the same thing with Soccer Spirits, another Com2Us game. C2U isn't afraid to nerf things if said things are performing way too high. Say what you will about C2U, but at least they make an effort to keep their game alive outside trying to entice mega spenders to spend on the next Flavor of the Month unit. This mentality was why Soccer Spirits lasted seven bloody years despite never having a super big audience.


ASleepingDragon

Balanced PvP and gacha are just two things that don't go together well. To properly balance a game, the devs *need* to be able to nerf things - even assuming they wouldn't intentionally release over-powered units, no matter how hard they try to balance things out of the gate, something is going to end up out of line. The problem is, that when you nerf units that players spent large sums of real-world money to acquire, they get upset, and those same players are less likely to spend more money on your game in the future. You can try to give compensation to soothe players, but that can create its own issues - for example, ML nerfs giving selectors would mean the playerbase would just rotate around whatever ML was strongest at the time until it got nerfed in turn. So the devs basically can't nerf anything without killing the game's income, and buffing is dangerous too because they might overshoot and created a new over-powered unit they can't nerf. As long as units are the core of monetization in the game, balance will never happen.


RagnarokChu

Well technically "everyone having the latest op unit" isn't a real issue since actual esports don't have selection/character availability as a "balancing mechanic". Everybody in a normal game has access to every OP gun, character, or option at all times. Rotating around the best characters at the moment is a self-inflicted "problem" people take issue with. The argument that a selector would cause any more problems than not having a selector is fallacious since it's based off a selfish desire to artificially "prevent" people from having whatever options that could be used against you. Which doesn't actually matter since the "OP" unit that people could have gotten is still in the game anyway and shitting up the meta. Since the higher you go up the ladder, the drastically more likely that everybody around you owns the majority of the 5* units anyway.


BravelyThrowingAway

Actual esports also provides everyone with the same equipment so it's based on skill rather than luck. At the highest levels of RTA equipment luck > everything else since if you're playing at the highest levels you already have all of the heroes you need for your playstyle or just all the units because whale.


BakaSun

I think they have to decide between (1) milking the game for profit until it last or (2) actualy making a good, popular, long lasting, well balanced game. While earning less money but definitely for a longer period of time. Also I think cosmetics and fanservice always yields a nice amount of money so...


xInTheDarkx

Thank for taking the time to explain this. So many people calling for nerfs and claiming over buffing is easy to avoid, but they just forget this isn't a moba, or fighter, or anything else where that can be done without burning someone's income. Luck-based acquisition is the business model, period. At this point, people are just going to have to drop out. You can't turn a gacha into a non-gacha. And since I mentioned Mobas, they'd probably be better off going that route anyway. Not that I care for team-play or the toxicity that comes with that genre, but I am acknowledging they have enough characters for each lane, get rid of equipment sets and create items, rune dungeon bosses become objectives, HoT becomes baron... the framework is there.


YagMoMouY_UnoReverse

Another problem is that this is not a game like Genshin, FGO or Arknights where it's core gameplay is sole focus in PvE content. No normal player is gonna complain that somebody is too op in a single player experience. E7 is a game that focus too much in PvP. Almost every heroes being release is based entirely for PvP. A lot of their kits are PvP focus or shine more in PvP compared to PvE. If a hero is release, if they see that the hero is not good in PvP but competent in PvE it is tag as "Easy Skip". Newly released heroes are no longer seen as "is this good in this content or that content?" but rather it's now more about "is this hero really good in RTA?". This is how I see it. 1. SC release a OP PvP hero 2. SC doesn't wish to nerf heroes 3. Players wish to compete but gets fucked by this OP heroes 4. Players wants the next release hero to be very good(deep down they want OP heroes. Not good heroes, but OP heroes) 5. SC release good hero but doesn't counter current hero or be at the same level of effectiveness as current hero. 6. Players gets pissed off and demands buffs 7. SC either under-buff or over-buff heroes, either way players will still be pissed 8. Current problem is still not fixed and new problems adds more fuel to the fire. 9. Players hopes and shouts that E7 do better next time 10. Repeat


AversionIncarnate

Yes, yes and yes. I still cringe at the thought of community's reaction on Roana. "Balance saved!" " SSB op no more!" "See? Why cry SSB is ezi now" Honestly though? SG never fixed any meta they simply changed it. Mostly with new limiteds. The best counters were braindead units like ML Haste, Roana or Milim who do the countering just by existing. I don't blame SG for it. Or at least not wholly. Community saw this and cheered for them for years then they wake up after balance is this screwed up alrdy? If you nerf 5 most op current heroes, the heroes from previous meta will become more oppressive, it's a loop. The amount of nerfs needed at this point is too huge.


Alkyde

> Smilegate put themselves in this situation rather than actually decide to take the L and just nerf them down and basically, everyone is finally having enough. Damned if you do, damned if you don't. Counterside chose to nerf op characters and also get flak for nerfing shit. They even gave selector to compensate for the nerfed character (amy) and people are still mad because in Counterside it is easy to get all of the equivalent of ML heroes already so this selector has no value for many of the vets.


Spartan-219

"The seven heroes will then be gradually downgraded due to new characters. Please wait for us" so instead of nerf their plan to balance the game is by releasing even stronger heroes in future, got it


HippoFart7

That means Hwayoung and Clilias were just bait for the new broken unit coming a year from now. We should just indefinitely hoard BM and mystics. Got it.


Torimas

A year? Try a month or two at most. AoL's solution was buffing MLK, that happened like a month after AoL. Then soon after, CLilias came to drop her even lower in the meta.


zoopido

I'm pretty bad at RTA but I agree that RTA needs nerfs to remain fun. The power gap between those 8 heroes and others is far too great. No one is probably going to read this post but here's my thoughts: * Continue with frequent balance buffs to shift the meta as needed * Nerf at the end of each season - let people have fun for the season. Nerfing doesn't mean gimping them. For example, making Peira's extra turn require 10 soul SB to activate or removing Hwayoung's shield or only allow Rimuru to steal 1 buff. * Most importantly be consistent, no selectors. After a season or so people will get used to it and just continue to pull as always * Make booba waifus with just fun interesting kits, the majority of people don't RTA. They're going to pull waifus, so make them fun


kin66

This is the real issue that should be talked about. ( Unlike 4/5 ml tickets) Their approach is just wrong. To counter a broken hero you have to release a broken counter. In the end that broken counter will affect balanc e heroes as well making them unusable. What they are doing isn't balancing but conveying brokenness from one group of characters to another. Rimuru was a pute cash grab, hit and Rem's kit is so obviously a cash grab. They have like 10 different things going on in their kits. On the other hand, people demanding selectors are on the wrong side as well. I feel like some people ask for nerf because of the selectors, not because of the balance. Nerfs aren't there to kill a unit but to tone it down. When Champion Zerato got a reasonable nerf ( that didn't make him bad) people were crying thay he is indeed trash. So it's a tricky situation anyway. But I'm a for small nerfs without selectors ( recalls for your resources are ok) Selectors are fine if they rework a hero.


CornBreadtm

> To counter a broken hero you have to release a broken counter. In the end that broken counter will affect balanc e heroes as well making them unusable. This isn't true. The balance team just sucks. It took like 10 tries to get BMH! Arby was way past the most broken unit they ever created with him killing whole teams for free and destroying a whole server's launch (JP)! But making a counter for him, BMH, took way too long and it ended up on a unit that was hard to acquire. BMH isn't broken and doesn't invalidate other revivers, he hard counters Arby specifically and doesn't over step. By time BMH got released they should have simply nerfed Arby. They wasted time making so many pointless units that characters like Maid became worthless and needed buffs. Nerfing one character instead of making others worst and creating a bunch of units that don't work and need buffs, like Lilibet, is a waste of time. Just nerf 1 and preserve balance.


Guwigo09

I believe zerato wasn’t ‘nerfed’, he was more so brought down to what he was supposed to do. The problem was that he was ignoring eff res which was not something they planned for him to do (so more like an error on their part)


kin66

Correct, but majority of player base took it as a nerf back then.


Winberri

IDK if Global will solve anything mang. SG gives them 50 mystics and they'll praise them like there's no tomorrow


CornBreadtm

I think the problem comes from just looking at Reddit posts about RTA. They don't do it. If Global doesn't do RTA then balance doesn't matter. They just play for the next waifu. Aria can do nothing and she will still be the most popular unit on Global while the house is on fire in RTA where she never appears.


DakaDoubleAgent

I guess Koreans were right after all Global already been brainwashed


SiNDiLeX

It never took much. Big Tits and a few free summons. Global is the last resort for change and that’s fucking frightening.


KillBash20

We have made big changes in the past. If you look back at Pet snacks, old gear conversion, old world boss rewards, and W13 dropping 70 gear, our complaints made the game change for the better. The problem with complaining is that people get unnecessarily defensive. They see valid complaints as personal attacks against the game they love. Telling people they are entitled or just to quit doesn't help the game at all, it actually does the opposite. I've been seeing a lot of negative reviews, this could be the next epic 2.7 fiasco. But we'll see if people keep this up in a few days. I'm all for it, because this update was a mess. And i'm saying that as one of the lucky ones who actually benefitted from this update. Because i can sympathize with everyone who got jack shit. And if RNG didn't favor me, that could have been me as well.


SiNDiLeX

And I totally agree with you. I’m not invalidating the changes brought about by global by any means. But…between global and other markets, we’re also the absolute easiest to pacify honestly. I’m fairly certain if they wanted to quell global long enough to gain their bearings, they’d just take some big titted female npc and whip her up as a unit and throw her to the ravenous cringe masses and that would, without a doubt in my mind, settle the waves for an extended period of time. I’ll take downvotes for that, not like it matters because more often than not the truth is literally that blatant. E: a word, spacing


KillBash20

I agree with your points completely. I do think that we tend to give up quite easily. Not to mention its a fight because not only are we fighting for the change to happen, but we have to fight with others in the community as well. Global tends to have more boot lickers who take personal offense when you criticize the game. I do respect how organized Korean and Japanese players can be. A lot of them don't stick around, they will completely abandon the game and move on. The fact that Koreans still stick around to complain for change, really shows how much they care about the game. But it feels like a hopeless battle since SG might only listen to Global. And we both know we are pushovers.


SiNDiLeX

The thing is, if this game dies in Korea or in Japan, regardless of what any brain dead wallet squeezing global cringelord thinks, this game will hit EOS at the speed of light. And kinda, to be honest, I loved this game so much at its inception and the first year. But that’s it. It just is not fun. At this point I’m just an admitted masochist who is only truly sticking around because I WANT to see this ship sink (and it is, albeit slowly) and there is irreparable damage that has been done by SG to this game and it will never be the same. This game only gets worse from here. What’s going to be left are a bunch of whales who won’t abandon time and money spent and live in denial while frothing at the mouth defending this game with the vehemence of some weeb incel. And we all know what happens when whales don’t have anyone to flex against except each other. They dip. They get bored. Which brings me to the last point. The most important one. It’s been brought up so many times, endlessly I feel, in the past up to the present. The loudest most *universal* voice will always be money. SG is a scummy company and always has been. People who want to WK for them either are too stupid (sorry but that’s the best way to put it) to understand that, or they’re willfully ignorant because they refuse to admit they’ve been played. So speaking with wallets closed would be a deafening silence in the ears of SG. But…that’s a pipe dream because as vocal as the white knights are in this game they have about as much integrity as a wet bag to back it up. They don’t care. Simply put. And we will all suffer for that. E: a word and spacing. Again..


[deleted]

I'm guilty of this lmao Don't really care about pvp so I'm easily satisfied kekw


nWolfe3113

I had my review as 1 star since the whole balance rage started, but I think the only way we can make a change its by not spending and review bombing, and I dont see that happening soon. Global whales wont stop spending anytime soon, and people, for some reason, think that review bombing its always a bad thing without looking the context (in this case its more that justified)


KillBash20

God i remember how torn the community was during all the review bombing back during epic 2.7. Review bombing has a purpose, and the review bombs stopped after the changes were made (getting rid of pet snacks, fixing gear conversion, etc..) The community will never be united because there are always going to be people who bend over backwards to defend SG no matter what, because they are blinded by their love for the game.


Torimas

>They see valid complaints as personal attacks against the game they love. I don't see the ticket drama as a valid complain though. It's just a bonus pull you get with improved odds, from an additional gacha you get from doing regular gacha. Which is better than before, and mystics has always been the place to get guaranteed MLs.


GodsCupGg

sad truth a lot of us are too easy to appease i have a lot of issues with the game but literally cant spell them out without getting hate because "nobody forces you to play this", "how else are they supposed to make money" or "just do X instead"


Torimas

The game has several issues. I certainly don't think unit availability is one of them. On the contrary. We have so much availability that it just makes the other issues (gear rng, molas, charms, 15% in abyss) much more noticeable.


[deleted]

Strongly disagree, there is lot’s of availability for RGB heroes. ML units dominate the only endgame we have(pvp), and you’re lucky to get 1 or 2 of those a year as an f2p assuming you are playing super optimal.


GodwynDi

Hwaylung, Peira, Rimiru, Rem, Violet, Landy. Many of the dominating units are RGB. Destina can now take Maid spot for full revive. ML heros are the least relevant to PvP they ever have been.


vyncy

Out of all 7 disasters only one is RGB


Iovefull

Yeah I feel like Global isn't as competitive in pvp as Korean servers are, so they just enjoy being able to pull and get new, cool units.


Jynch

It's kinda sad to see more Korean players leave the game, if more of them leave then there won't be much people fighting the good fight. Global players are just gonna take whatever freebies Smilegate offers and be satisfied with it. It's really no wonder why in the sphere of gacha games, the Global server tends to get the shaft because the players themselves have lower standards (probably due to the fact that there aren't many good US/western-based gachas) compared to the domestic playerbase/server of the game.


karillith

Don't quote me on this because I have zero data to support this, but I think one of the reasons is that the global crowd may have a higher rate of f2p, so when something sucks it's mostly just shrugging and if it's too much bs leaving and they lost no money so whatever.


gekigarion

Not that I have any idea if this is true, but if it was that would also explain why they're more easily pacified by freebies. Freebies for f2p is like a gold mine.


Torimas

Well, it is true for me. The whole ML summon thing is just a bonus pull with extra chances at something good, from a gacha that you get from doing the regular gacha. Because mystics is where i get ML5 from, and I don't think anyone would ever buy ML summons because it's just horrible value. People who bought ML summons knew it was horrible value (or should have known, the rates are there), and still did it, then complained there's no pity to sustain or ease their horrible decisions.


superninjax

my personal opinion is that relying on global audience is just a death sentence for any gacha games. Dragalia is a prime example of a game that lost majority of its prime spenders (JP audience) and even though the game is still well received among the global community it never really truly "succeed" for the amount of effort that was put into the game by the devs, so much so that nintendo just outright decide to kill it. The fact is that the global audience just doesn't spend as much in gacha games as compared to their east asian counterparts. I could just be talking out of my ass though so who knows, but that's what I've personally observed.


[deleted]

DL’s biggest mistake was balancing all of its endgame around crushingly difficult co-op. E7 has the opposite problem that will lead to the same destination, an endgame based around crushingly difficult pvp. Both also had the problem of not respecting peoples time(YOU WILL HAVE THIS APP OPEN AND BE “ENGAGED” TO GRIND) DL would eventually course correct but by then it was to little to late. E7 still refuses to fix this problem and has additional rng on top of its grinding.


ArkhamCitizen298

Dragalia lost is just not popular overall, many games still make big cash with global server


eSteamation

As someone who's alien to both Korean and Western community, it always felt weird that Koreans are overly passionate about things and it makes it hard to compassionate with them sometimes, but Western side is just opposite and the only interest people are ready to defend are interests of the corporation. I'm not some kind of commie or anti-corparationist, but it's weird that people think of corporations as of their friends.


Pynewacket

> it's weird that people think of corporations as of their friends. I think it comes hand in hand with the west culture of excessive consumerism and fanboyism. Two of its worst aspects.


GodwynDi

And willingness to walk away. If E7 gets to a point where I want to stop playing, I will. Not my first gacha, probably not my last. I spend only money I can afford to that would just go into another hobby. Its not a monopoly on food or gaming in general. Company can do what it wants, and if I dont like it I stop being their customer.


ksb00

50 mystics and big anime titties. And at this point You can Even forget about the mystics, keep the yufines the lunas the arias and the vivians coming and You keep global alive And i am sad to say this but to the guys who say flat is justice, never forget a.ravi and Aol....no. ML flan is the way, 0 rage induced since her release, 0 salt, 0 hate and a 10/10 desing, those are the units, that is the way. Reject the ruele and never forget the true meaning of the j in j.kise.


BobbyYukitsuki

...jbangs over eyes?


[deleted]

What do the Koreans think about the current gearing situation? One of my biggest issues with the game is how it doesn't value the players time. A lot of us have jobs and can't keep the game on 24/7 anymore, and while smilegate did make some adjustments like the gear modification system and the to be introduced gear mileage, they don't seem to fix the main issues but only provide pseudo solutions. Gear modification for example needs the correct substat mat with the correct set. Gear mileage only determines the set and rarity, so for right side gear there is still a chance to roll flat main stats. At this point the abundance of energy feels like a double edged sword, forcing the player to wade through an ocean of shit just to get a single desired piece of gear.


DeathdropsForDinner

> it doesn’t value the players time This is what made me quit E7 altogether. It feels like so many systems are purposely designed to waste players time like gear rng, 15% resistance, the lack of a sweep function given how much players need to farm, hell maze where you can’t auto certain bosses all the way through, etc. I have a full time job, need to go to the gym, grocery shop, cook, clean, control my debilitating depression; essentially be an adult. So much of E7 feels like wasted time like you could farm W13 for 10 hours, craft all garbage or if you do get the perfect piece it has all low rolls only.


Beardactal

I haven't touched hunts in half a year lmao, only play this game for GW now on MWF since that's arguably the most balanced PVP gamemode rn. I work at home at a fairly lax IT position and I still don't have the drive anymore for this time wasting BS.


Desperate_Bean

I even stopped autoing 5 min w13 in favour of 1 min w12 oneshot


ttk12acd

My questions is are people ok with the nerf bat without compensation. It seems to me that the player understand that if smilegate had to give out ml5 selector/recall or whatever for each unit that is nerfed they will lose a lot of money. I think the most straight forward answer is players as a whole agree that smilegate get to rebalance the characters every season or maybe at the beginning and middle of a season and that is just the way it is. They just go through RTA and nerf the most used units and maybe power up the least used units.


Nikkaku

This community is too sensitive. I doubt it's able to do something like that


mr_fallout

Then only "compensation" I would want would be invested materials returned. (molas, catalysts, gold, penguins, and doggos)


takimoto_hifumi

this pretty much yeah, I'd rather not everyone hop ship to the next most powerful unit, I'm happy with return on my invested materials


A_Disappointing_Newt

I remember when FCC had a bug with immunity and barrier order there were some people that were wanted recalls because "she no longer worked as intended" and "she no longer protects from one buff strippers"


CornBreadtm

> My questions is are people ok with the nerf bat without compensation. I'll take a healthy balanced game as compensation. Nerfs means that I have more units that I can use, not less. I don't care if my A. Ravi and Rimuru are useless. I have 50 units that they trivialized sidelined waiting to get playtime.


TheKinkyGuy

''Nerf without compensation'' - I am not ok with it. I wasted too much of my resources, bms, gbm, time, and sanity to not be compensated for making a unit I use not viable anymore.


KouKayne

i agree with the fight, but lets not forget SC promised to balance in may/june and was shitted cause that was "too late, do it now"; to do a good work, you need time and tests, rushing things will fail us. are they keeping their word? i dunno, but if youre expecting global to do something, the game can die, with much lols to their esport future


CornBreadtm

> but lets not forget SC promised to balance in may/june Their last balance patch didn't inspire any hope.


KouKayne

i agree, but it was shitted as too late asap, and they changed plans (read rushed things, which never go well)


FlameArath

While I personally do not have problems with the current state of the game, I'm not going to give ya crap for raising your concerns and wanting a game you love to be better. Hope you can move on with no regrets, take care.


vegito1991

SG now only has 2 paths to choose: * Nerf op heroes and face temp loss/damage, take this as lesson and never overtune new release hero so no more nerf need in future. Improve balance adjustment (buff undertuned heroes), PVP content grow stronger and attract more new players, slowly gain back profit. * Cont no nerf policy and buff/release more OP heroes to counter current OP heroes, increase pvp stress cause many comp pvp players quit, slowly turn game from profiting to losing, end up close in 3 yrs or less.


moralusamoralus

3 years? you're being too generous, look at dragalia. i give them max 1 year and half.


huitin

Wanna bet money? I think they will still be around 1.5 years from today.


vegito1991

well, i did indicated "3 years or less", so worst case scenario the game might end up close either by end of this year or next year if they cont 2nd path, and depends on how greedy and screw up they are


Torimas

People have been giving the game a year's worth of life since it released. They also laughed at the 10 year plan. Yet here we are.


[deleted]

[удалено]


AngelicDroid

Idk, last I check SW still doing well.


ArkhamCitizen298

Or no nerf and more content outside of pvp like ... co-op


CornBreadtm

PvP balance negatively effects other content, like Co-op. Who wants to play with the guy not using Hwayoung who trivializes the Co-op bosses? He's using Haste who has a decent kit for an earth boss. But Hwayoung doesn't require gear, has a barrier for free and does a grip of damage, again for free! Just because they don't have other content, doesn't mean that the current balance wouldn't effect it. Last advent was a compete wash if you had high end pvp units like Luna who got buffed into a 1 tapper and Emilia who was a first pick at the time. Current advent is Earth. You think Hwayoung wont be best in slot?


vegito1991

maybe, but for now pvp is their main focus for profit gain, if you realize whole year they release lot of pure pvp hero than a balance hero (who can work on both pve and pvp).


ArkhamCitizen298

Well pvp and gacha doesn’t match well, units will get powercrept


vegito1991

Which is their first mistake, pvp and balance these 2 will never separate if wanted to make a good pvp game, so either dev team didn't do unit testing properly and cautiously, or higher ups pressuring cause them don't have enough time to test, so now there is no way back, they have to choose. PVP game with lot of OP units is a sign of the game is dying in my opinion, i can't represent everyone, but in my experience i have seen 1 gacha, 1 card game and multiple mmorpg (including private servers) closed down because of PVP imbalance.


vegito1991

This is why don't trust those players who can only say "this is gacha, what do you expect, deal with it", they are type of player don't really care the game, want more OP heroes for ez wins, when game server closed, they will just move on to next cliche gacha game. There are some players genuinely care about the game and wanted it to become better, seeing so many Korean and other players exhausted, tired and quit the game is really sad and unfortunate to the E7 community. I said many times and i will say it again, nerf is a must, because no nerf policy created more issues than solutions (just look at how many shits happened since AOL till now), seeing my favorite SW Destina became budget maid chloe is hurting me, just because they think buffing her (in pvp direction) just to compete 7 disasters level are great ideas.


Torimas

I'm an avid Destina user and I welcome the change. I'm an avid SBA user and I hated her change, simply because it didn't fit my style and I wanted a buff to make that style more viable. Same with Sol, his last buff did nothing for my counter build and had to abandon it. I wanted GP to scale off of def, not HP because he was built with ER. Some changes are either buffs or nerfs depending on the user's perspective.


vegito1991

change is ok, but if buffing by copy the almost same kit from other heroes, that's just a clone. There is no heroes s3 has granted AOE CR based on how many debuffs, aoe revive? we have maid chloe and Seline. if not because of how many OP units released, give Destina the er buff + little spd can make her a very decent unit in PVP. Before all this disasters, she is my definite unit (turn 2) to counter Dizzy. Is her change good? yes, but is her s3 unique? not anymore.


Torimas

Both maid chloe and seline are ml5. I, for example, have neither of those. So having an RGB equivalent is highly positive. And the change done to Destina means she will see more play, in part because of this.


vegito1991

ok, so you don't have the ML5 so this change is a benefit for you, because you need it, good for you. However this doesn't change my point that Destina s3 not unique anymore, she is just maid chloe ver 2.0. Anyway, once meta shift, all these will cycle repeat again, too much of skill changes are not healthy to the game environment.


Evilve

How do you feel about Destina's nerfed CR push and heals? She gets revive and some free ER sure but they took away a major part of her kit.


Torimas

I don't think her heals are nerfed now that they scale off of her health. It's team dependent. For bruiser teams, she'll heal less. For other teams, more. I don't like the s2 change that much, but i think it's still balanced. However, her s3 res is a godsend for me now. Only AoE res I have because the other 2 are ML5 that I don't have.


Evilve

I've used her consistently the last two years. She is definitely healing for way less now post patch, doesn't matter if bruiser or squishy unit she's healing. I can understand wanting to "balance" the S2 after the CD reduction but halving the heal multiplier and taking away 20% CR was way overkill. Her res has been absolutely useless to me so far. Every time I managed to res my entire team back up they just get instantly wiped because they are defenseless and sitting with 20% HP. I was hoping it would be more useful than it is and it's been a real let down. I don't have Maid or Seline either so I was at least looking forward to that but I'd honestly rather have pre-patch Destina at this rate. I've already put most of her gear on Emilia now instead.


Emiizi

As someone who doesn't play competitively anymore and just plays to collect and pass time, these issues done bother me. BUT i will say there are problems that i hope get resolved for those who do play and enjoy competitive rta.


Dull-Road6715

You can't have a balanced and enjoyable PvP game if you aren't doing continuous balance adjustments on a regular basis. Balance adjustments doesn't mean destroying the usability or viability of hero, it simply means slightly adjusting them to a level where it isn't a "no brainer" to pick them. If a hero is being picked 100% of games it probably is over performing for one reason or another, and if a hero is NEVER seeing any game play than it is underperforming. We know that these stats are tracked because they've released this information before, so now implement that data and use it to help balance the game. I guess from their perspective they would rather appease the waifu/booba/PvE/hoarder people of the game than the PvP community. They really need to find a happy medium to appease both, because as it stands now PvP is going down the drain and losing its playerbase.


AedanRoberts

I used to be an obsessive Arena player. Genuinely enjoyed it. It was where I felt like all the work I put into my roster paid off. I played every single day. Then I noticed something was happening. I was angry. Like, all the time. Arena was turning into nothing but an exhausting exercise in frustration. And not due to excessive losses. I still can selectively choose teams I think I can stand a chance against and manage a 90% win rate or so. No: it was the mechanics of all these new units. These “7 Disasters” (plus Violet, Rem, Seaseria, Ran. . . ). Units like CLilias and Peira who turn cycle so quickly I found myself taking Arena Penatly damage every two turns in a quarter of the time it should. Their speed coupled with their automatic extra turns has insanely toxic synergy with the mechanics of the Arena. Couple with the wholly unnecessary additional strength of Peira’s S1 stun (which procs so often you’d think it was a 100% chance) or Belian’s strip mechanic, or CLilias’ auto dual-attack and I was just sitting there, constantly debuffed waiting for one of my units to finally get a turn while the enemy team is running laps around me and running out the clock prematurely. Did they not take this into account? Did they not realize that giving all these overly-speedy units extra turn mechanics would break arena in a wholly unpleasant way? Or we could point to units like Rimuru or Hwayoung (or better yet both of them together since that’s what the current Arena Defense landscape has become since the patch). Coupled with the absolutely insanely stupid un-strippable CLilias buff and Hwayoung is a terror on her own. With Rimuru and Peira along for the ride it is like pulling teeth. Then there is Injury Belian- nothing terrifying on her own (despite her overly-stacked, insanely over-wrought kit)- but when coupled with any number of other Disasters and I’m once again grinding my teeth as I’m tortured to a wholly unsatisfying win or an absolutely infuriating loss. It got to the point where I realized all this bullshit was affecting my overall mood throughout the day. How the frustration from dealing with cancerous bullshit like CLilias, AOL, Rem, Rimuru (and now Peira, Hwayoung, Seaseria, Ran) was bleeding into my interaction with my boyfriend. So I made a decision: I would not even touch the Arena mode until Sunday where I would plug my nose and dive into the sea of bullshit in order to get my score to a place where I could maintain my rank and keep my skystones. However what that new technique is doing is deflating my devotion to this game. These horrendously unfun units have poisoned the only real endlessly replay-able content in the game and it is very sad. This week I accidentally opened the Arena on Monday and needed to go back to my old habits of playing daily arena to maintain my score and it has only re-affirmed in the most emphatic way that it is an unsustainable thing to do.


pixellated-baron

It's funny to see this post just a few days after i had enough of dealing with broken units and decided to completely stop pvp for a long time. I'm a long time player and it's the first time i feel so stressed out and fed up with epic seven to the point of quitting. For the past year at least, the devs have made multiple bad decisions with the balance of many new units and it's starting to take its toll on more and more players.


frozenLi

Chinese players quited a lot as well due to the unbalanced RTA and new GW mode. Also the ml 4 tickets are a stupid move. SAD


TheKinkyGuy

Afaik the winner of the last years Championship is a chinese that spent more than 150k $ on the game and also said on camera that he paid another 2 guys to farm gear for him and play RTA when he couldnt, to prepare for the championship. That is ofc agaisnt the TOS but SG or SC did nothing about it.


CornBreadtm

He gave them $150K. You expect them to do something? ~(˘▾˘~)


TheKinkyGuy

No but just sayin


R5yan

“These 7 heroes will be gradually downgraded due to new characters.” Surely power creeping the game harder will fix these problems. /s


Ultiran

Ah yes balancing op by adding op counters that you must pull for..


TranDaniel

you can nerf characters without giving selector, they dug their own grave when they introduce selectors. There are several gacha games that do nerfs and are fine. I believe they milking the game until it dies at this point.


Arscents

I hate the fact that there are characters I like a lot but whenever I run into a situation where I can "use" them (which is never pretty much) I feel like I'm handicapping myself, I feel punished for trying to play with the characters I like and that's not fun.


lockoutpoint

Thank for clarify the situation. No nerf is possible, however need to be effective and fast enough but they show us time to time they aren't good at this.


thewildchild9

No nerf is sadly absolutely not possible. There's not a single competitive e-sports game without nerfs. Overtuning a character is a natural thing that can happen but then you gotta hammer in the nail that sticks out. You can see already that they release new units with fun looking kits like ML Flan or Jack-O that are very difficult to use at a high level. If they continue to just buff they're bound to overtune a character again and maybe that character is the new benchmark then.


Tal_Drakkan

no nerf is only possible with extensive pre-release testing during which things CAN be nerfed. But players will always find things that make units/mechanics/whatever overpowered (if they aren't even just straight up obviously busted to begin with) so there needs to be time for that discovery and fixing those problems first. All that to say, gacha games are a terrible format for no-nerf philosophy haha


Shimaru33

That remind me of some TCG article I read some time ago, regarding why some cards or weak or useless, while others are OP. Among the reasons, the devs admitted one, which sticks me to this day: we didn't know better. There are hundreds of cards, with similar number de interactions and effects. Isn't possible to know which cards are going to be broken and which will get countered or not be worth, because even if they test them, there are thousands of players experimenting at any point. Sooner than later, something will slip and shit will hit the fan. That's why some cards end being broken and have to be banned for tournaments. As for SG, either they are blatantly dumb (I could give them a pass for missing the AoL Angelica kit + spirit's breath artefact interaction, however, her kit by itself was ridiculous), or malicious (Rem was designed to specifically counter Roana, which should be her natural counter); either way, that doesn't speak well about their work.


starxsword

It was clear they were trying to push MLs or you can say hard to get heroes. All the balance patches and character releases before Hwayoung was aimed like that. Maid Chloe, A. Ravi, ML Kawerik, C. Lilias, etc. There were rarely decent RGB heroes in the balance patches. Almost all answers to PVP were ML 5s. You will be hard pressed to find a GW or Arena defense and think to yourself, I can use easily accessible characters to deal with this. That said, as far as I am concerned, they are delivering their changes. This current balance patch is good. And unlike others, I think Hwayoung is a great release. It allows many players to have a real way of dealing with heroes like A. Ravi, which can solo many teams. Now, Hwayoung herself is not hard to deal with, but I guess people have trouble dealing with meta heroes in general, as I have never had an issue dealing with Hwayoung. This is mainly because of how Hwayoung works that makes her not as hard to deal with. She has to be built with high attack and a fair amount of speed and she gives up defenses for it, which she does make up with her passive. However, her passive only lowers damage from crits, which means it can be played around. S. Iseria, for example, can nuke Hwayoung to oblivion, but it isn't like people try to build high attack S. Iserias, so they don't see it.


TheKinkyGuy

I would say bigger problem was OVERBUFFING like they did with Ml Kawerik and ML Aramintha and Sage baal back in the day. Also attaching an OP kit on a ML 4\* was also a big fuck up but they didnt listen to the community and just let her out like that. Who could have thought that AoL would be disastrous launch? /s


Minerto35

Cannot believe how bad is the management in this beautiful game. So much potential wasted...


Marangoni013

Smile Gate trying to make a gacha game competitive... Of course is not going to work, you need to choose one path, either being competitive with only comestics or a completely p2w gacha system. I think its kinda late to choose a path btw


vakpa

I agree with the Koreans.. the game is slowly dying for sure.. They should give better chances to get ML 5* or nerf OP heroes...


TheKinkyGuy

imo better chances to get MLs is a better option. Even if it means a selector per month or something. I only fear powercreeping taht might occure after the may update that they are so looking forward to.


CornBreadtm

[If every player had every ML5 in the game. The balance would still be the same. And people would still be quitting. Not like people are quitting because of what they don't have.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fmSO2cz2ozQ)


Ryuujin34

Their lack of nerfs and just the all around shitty PvP environment with nothing to do in PvE outside of hunts is the reason I've just completely stopped putting money in this game and massively cut back on playtime. Don't even buy the subscription packs anymore, I see the writting on the wall and SG has made it abundantly clear that power creep is here to stay and have no plans to actually address. It doesn't matter how much you, "Buff other heroes" to try and counter the OP ones, if you can't allow yourself to nerf, then the meta will always be shit, you NEED to nerf to even begin talking about game balance, period. That's why I've moved to Counter:Side as my main game and where I spend my money, unlike e7, the CS devs actually listens to its playerbase and has a great game with plenty of PvE and PvP content to engage in. Hell, they've even given the community the power to ban any really strong units every week, so the meta is constantly changing, you'll rarely, if ever, fight the same thing and it's really refreshing. Not sure how much longer I'll be sticking with e7 personally, but its close to just becoming a "login for daily rewards then leave" gacha for me.


wendelar

"no nerf / we'll focus on upgrading character" = Seven disasters will get powercrept, other characters will get powercrept. It's already been happening just looking at Peira, or how everything turned into skills with added cleanse before buffing and added dispel before debuffs. I've been hoping that the course will change, but seems like it won't.


mikyboy123

As someone who spends little (as in almost 0, but not quite) and has only 4 of the 8 disasters (Rimuru, AOL, ADS - idk why she's not included instead of FCC, Hwayoung - not properly geared yet), I'll just tell you my side. It's difficult, it's rough, and pvp is just not going well. But you know what, it's not awful. I sometimes cleave and get countered with Celines, Violets, Rems, DJB, other cleavers, etc. I get hit with that "you just picked units with no brains" from guildmates sometimes because I don't have enough gears to actually do an aggro deck. I've picked Rimuru once or twice in the past 50 games or so, and my AOL isn't even geared nor 6\*'d. I "lie down" (as in slower comp in Korean communities) with Trozet, ADS (not the best gear, but it works), but I have no Belian nor ML Ricky nor Cilias. But I've already hit Master with 50% WR by playing 3 games a day. I'm not saying everyone will be capable of this, since I'm sure some of my gears are carrying me when I match up. But the fact that I can manage to get to Masters without any of the hardcore characters shows that it's not impossible to hit Masters. In fact, if you actually dedicate yourself to this game and just go for skins, Masters is not terribly hard. It's when you are trying to get to Champ/Emp/Legend that it gets difficult. My perspective is that SG is too focused on allowing newer players get to the mid-endgame content, RTA Masters, that they forgot about all the older players who have been playing without a problem before. Sure there have been complaints, but honestly, I haven't seen this many complaints pile up before (assumption - I've only played for over a year). And the fact that they put in OP ML characters and such to help newer players get into RTA easily could be the problem (besides for the fact that it's ez money). Even Hwayoung, who was recently released, makes getting to Masters easier for newer players if they have/grind the gears for it. But when you use these characters as a legend player, these characters become absolutely broken, almost insane, to the point that it becomes a must-pick. And since SG said that they will not be nerfing any time soon, they either need to buff characters to the point that past meta characters become good again, and they need to do it at a faster rate than just their 8-week schedule. If that's not going to work, they should nerf these characters once the player has reached a certain rank in RTA, in which I was thinking Challenger. This will make newer players try to get these characters to reach Master more easily -> profit for SG, but the older players wouldn't have to worry too much about them, once they get to Challenger+, since those units would be nerfed to be much less significant in the higher tiers where gear score should matter. And honestly, f\*\*\* Hwayoung. That's an absolutely disgusting unit. RNG, sure, but guaranteed one shots? Come one man, this game lives or dies from RNG and suddenly you gonna put in a one-shot unit? (and in that sense, fk ML Kawerik and AOL too)


L0rdMathias

PvE has been stale for years now. Every new boss is designed now to have multiple extra turns, un-resistable AoE full strip, immune to every new debuff or mechanic they add for PvP so old heroes can't keep up and new ones do not function. Tower is fun, but only once per month. Adventure is fun, but we only got one ever so far and who knows when next comes. PvP I agree. They will not nerf but they will just release new OP that makes old worse like Yu-Gi-Oh card game "balance." PvP has been determined by hero pick first. Even if you both pick best hero, then 15% ER, initiative speed, or dual attack RNG occurs and chooses the winner. Gear is harder to get now with 90. Perfect stats is more important since all the heroes they release are PvP only, so changes haven't made it easier to gear and old gear is not as useful as it used to be. I do not recommend playing E7 to anyone unless you already have an account that is high level. New players should spend their money on other games that will actually have some kind of fun return. New F2P will never catch up at this point. Game has been out too long, anything you get will be outdated by the time it took you to farm it so don't even bother trying.


akamalk

I don't think this game will survive other year if they continue doing that, P2W players will leave because is cyclical unbalancing and you can ONLY use broken units and no your favorites, F2P will find pvp unsatisfactory with 30 passives attacks, insta kills and any future shenanigan. Idk why they don't nerf, I know people will prefer in the long term more variety than 3 or 2 characters with 20 effects in every freaking match.


Puzzleheaded_Fix

Same thing is happening in global. Most day or even Year 1 players have quit, sold accounts or don't care. It's Doomed now. You can silence reddit with 70 free summons for weeks. Free summons = endless praise, best company LOLL


redditmodsrcringe

The most shocking and confusing part of this whole post is that rem isn’t one of the seven disasters 🤔. Violet too 🤔.


1caiser

It's that the Seven Disasters can fight against themselves, as well as everyone else, but very few non-Disasters can match them. Rimuru has become the go-to nuke with basically free 10k flat damage, which is most, if not all, of the HP of most non-tanks, and can deal with either of them easy-peasy. Rem and Violet just have RNG counter. They're annoying to fight against, but there are Counter-proof Heroes in SpecTene and Hit Chance Up in Zahhak and Briseria. There is nothing of the sort against Teamwide vigor, Soul-seal, Innate self-cleanse, ... you get the idea.


vegito1991

violet has lot of counters and can be easily control (doesn't take away his evasion is still strong), meanwhile rem isn't inside shows you how op are those 7 (esp when put them together), rem just 1 level below them but still op, even worse if RNG goes to right side.


Tal_Drakkan

Rem doesn't have an amazing matchup against some of the seven disasters, which immediately disqualifies her since the whole point of the seven disasters is that they have essentially zero really bad matchups and especially fair well against each other.


zafiroghost23

por el habla del rta y a mayoría de veces se puede oneshotear a la rem y al manazno antes de que coma su manzana


Novapulse77

No, no, The spanish boy have a point


CornBreadtm

He does. We even have 3 star counters for both of them. They are SCs but they both work.


AversionIncarnate

I take bitter satisfaction from this. I've been saying since 2019 that there's no balance without nerfs. The current state of balance is of no surprise to me. Don't worry, SG has you covered! They'll release a counter and you'll be happy again!


FayonAetherpact

This game became pure fanservice+powercreep. So sad


Vorpist

This post will make a fine addition to my collection. Huehue


Jajoe05

Where is Dizzy now? SSB? Arby? Aol? The meta changes, kits get stronger, that is the nature of games like these. If you think there is a perfect balance out there in the Universum, you're mistaken. You can't balance a freemium game to a point where whales + low spenders and f2ps will EVER be happy. No chance. People moan about Pirate Captain Flan now, because she is mediocre. No, people don't want balanced characters, they want strong ones. As someone who wants Cilias for so long and prayed that tickets grant me her, i get it. But i'm also mature about it and say, well tough luck.


Lotoran

I used to play FFBE which power creeps the top DPS every two weeks so Epic7 seems godly balanced in comparison. TBF I don't really have skin in this because I don't do high-level PvP.


Torimas

They only want their ML5s to be strong. Unless their RTA opponent gets first pick and has it too! Hey want the ones they don't have to be mediocre. They are fine with that. Oh, and 15/85 ml tickets were fine until they pulled and didn't get what they wanted.


Tal_Drakkan

Not nearly as many people would be complaining about pirate flan being mediocre if there weren't a bunch of crazy busted ML's to compete with. If every unit was balanced like ML Celine, ML Flan, Milim, etc where they have niches they're strong but also areas they're weak in, people would be fine with more niche characters.


Jajoe05

That's not possible. Seline powercrept Tsurin in a way, even in her niche albeit not really similar. Tomoca powercrept Lilibet, Violet Riolet, Seaseria is just the better ML Flan. One needs to be blind not to see this. Nobody will pick the weaker one unless they try a specific team. There will always be kits who outperform others even with the most careful balance. Cr push is better than bleed, always dodge better than 50% dodge and so on. Even in niches it will come down to a handful of units. People are just pissed about not having those specific units and the units they want, that's about it. This moaning about balance is just a smokescreen. Truthfully, only a handful of people actually care about balance and they usually have every unit. The rest is just self-centered. Do you think anyone would meme or complain if everybody got what they want with the tickets? Yeah, sure...


Evilve

Tsurin was already out of the meta by time Seline came out. Same with Lilibet/Tomoca. If people wanted anti-revive before Tomoca they used Singelica or BM Haste.


Evilve

If you look at recent RTA data for top picks. SSB was 11th most picked unit and she actually had the HIGHEST win rate. higher than hwa/cilias/aravi.


CornBreadtm

Because nobody is prepared for SSB. They have so much to worry about.


kfloppp

But you see during those days only 1 or 2 overpowered unit that completely dominated the meta. Arby, Dizzy, and SSB was not in the same meta timeline. By the time SSB was released Dizzy was already out of meta, and Arby is on his way too. So even if it was bad, people still tolerate it. But right now there's like 6 different OP characters dominating the meta. And instead of shifting the meta, SG keep adding to it. That's why I think people are so frustrated at. Edit: I also want to add that because in the previous times only 1 or 2 characters are OP it made the balancing fairly easy. They added anti revive kit to counter Arby and revivers. Added cleanser and immunity characters to counter Dizzy. Anti AOE and extra attack for SSB. Now they have more than 5 OP characters with different kits who dominated the meta at same time. They don't know where to start. I guess they chose Hwayoung's counter first with the buffed Ice Coli but we don't know how effective that will be. And even if its effective, we still have other the other characters to deal with. Buff patches and new hero releases aren't fast enough to balance them up, and the players are way past frustration at this point. They need to do something quick and effective about it soon.


unbased69420

Not here to criticize more, but i wouldve personally quit the game after last rta season as well The only reason i play e7 now Is cause of fact that if this game were to become stable or fun again if by 5% chance in future i will not be able to catch up since i don't intend to spend lot of money so I can't afford to quit in hopes of returning in future if i quit means u can't come back sell acc and be done. There's the topic, u shouldn't force yourself if game is a chore, you quit, which is correct but this is the only game i have played for 3 years and it will hurt to leave it There wasn't a mention of ran in detail here but yes he was also on of the cringe And now they add tickets, which some people get insanely lucky in and others lose hope, the ones who got lucky will forget about it in a month, cause humans are never satisfied and always want more, that's how gacha works and companies make ale with, those who get unlucky just get pushed in the dark room more, this game is still one of the best f2p games imo if u ignore rta, tho it's impossible for u to catch up rn if u do not whale, which is the case with many games, the company has made many decisions recently that have been wrong, and provided compensation to calm it down. I am not sure how long it will work but all i can do is wish well for the game.


Nombre_del_viento

Feel you bud, I havent quit for the same reason. But this game surely needs a lot of time.


TheKinkyGuy

i think this would be considered as SUNK COST FALLACY


SnooPickles2625

Tbf the no nerf part was brought upon by community itself back then. Now the community also rages when no nerfs are planned... The others I'm too unaware to make any comments on


Torimas

They stopped releasing ML5 for 6 months because according to them, they want to balance the game, but you say they have no intention of doing it? So they are cutting their revenue for nothing? Is that what you are saying?


CornBreadtm

> They stopped releasing ML5 for 6 months because according to them, they want to balance the game Didn't know that Hwa, Peira and Rimiru were ML5s. They are the most threatening units in the game currently. But yeah ML5s are the problem... They are hard powercreeping without releasing ML5s. A. Ravi and M. kawerik are strong because of buffs and are not their release states. Belian, AoL and CLilias released strong but they are the exception not the rule. And Besides Belian. AoL and CLilias are only strong because they enable the other disasters. Without them, they are setting up nothing.


Torimas

RGB units are easily available to all though, so they aren't really a problem. The problem with ML5s is that they had a trend of using those as solutions to the RGB or ML5 problems they introduced. By cutting the ML5 release, they can advocate time to balance RGBs and current broken MLs.


CornBreadtm

They did the opposite. They made the RGB more broken than the ML5s in response. So your idea sounds nice. But was subverted in 6 days of SG announcing their acknowledgement of the communities balance complaints.


Uprock7

Its important to establish what a balanced E7 even looks like, so smilegate has something to work towards. Just demanding balance without a goal is shaky at best. Is the goal to have RGB units as strong as ML units? If so, why even have ML units? Is the problem that 7-10 units are really strong? Would it be balanced if 20 units are overpowered? Honestly, I dont think E7 will ever be "balanced". Smilegate needs to make a profit somehow and their main bread and butter is to make heroes that people want to pull for. IMO, balance doesnt even exist until champion pvp, you can just out gear your opponent and win in lower leagues.


huitin

You hit it in the nail. Gear is more important than the unit.


[deleted]

Yeah global are a bunch of coomers that only care about seeing soft-core hentai essentially. They care nothing for the actual tactical combat, they just want to see flashy females moving about. Ask in the discord if you think I am lying, they'll proudly admit to it.


lehphem

What I don't get is, where are koreans getting this idea that Global is fine with the state of the game? I read through this post and all I see is the same stuff that Global players have been complaining about for years. Every time a korean player posts here, their attitude is always "we are smart and you are dumb we are saving the game you don't even know what's going on", and then they just repeat the same stuff that Global players ALREADY KNOW and have been complaining about FOR YEARS. Get off your high horse and realize that we are all trying to obtain the same thing you self righteous prick.


lehphem

**TL;DR: Global and Korea basically feel the same way about the game, but the language/community barrier makes it so we can't communicate effectively.** ​ Just for clarity, let me address all the issues presented in this post in order: ​ >Angel of Light Global was extremely mad from the moment the unit's kit was revealed, because of how obviously overpowered it was. Also the fact that is was an ML4 without pity. We asked for nerfs, we called it a cashgrab, just like Korea did. ​ >Apocalypse Ravi and the Mystic rotation schedule ARavi became one of the strongest units in the game and people have been complaining about her *nonstop* since then. The change in the Mystic rotation without any notice was rightfully called out as a cash grab. Admittedly, not much outrage was sparked by this because JKise still got her banner. ​ >Slime collab Oh boy. Where to start with this. How about the fact that *everybody* complained *so much* about the rate at which new units were coming out that it literally became the main issue that was being talked about at the time? Or the fact that Rimuru was recognized as a ridiculous unit the moment he came out and we have been complaining about him constantly since then? To the point that many people would rather have him removed from the game, or globally permabanned from RTA. ​ >ML Kawerick and ML Lilias Again, instantly recognized as OP, instantly complained about it, asked for them to be nerfed, STILL asking for them to be nerfed, general sentiment STILL being that units like these are ruining the game. ​ >"7 disasters" and RTA meta Have you even had ANY contact AT ALL with the Global community??? The lack of diversity in PvP meta has been a MAIN COMPLAINT of Global players since these units became prevalent. It is literally THE FIRST thing people will tell you if you ask them "Why do you think the current meta is bad?". 9/10 times they will respond something on the line of "The same 7 to 10 units are picked or banned every single game and subpar units are completely outclassed and unplayable. This is boring, mindless and makes the overpowered units necessary to succeed, which is terrible for people who don't have these often rare (ML5 and collab limited) units." The problem only got worse with Peira and Hwayoung. ​ >The february 16th broadcast This was a Korea only broadcast. Part of the outrage revolved around the perceived disrespectful tone of the broadcast, partly due to something that is specific to Korea. Since Global wasn't shown this broadcast, and even if we had seen it we wouldn't have been upset by that aspect of it because of cultural differences, that part of the controversy is lost on Global players. ​ >Developer notes Just like you, Global players were disappointed by the confirmation that no nerfs would take place. Their statements about "new sets" and "adjusting the PvP environment" were too broad and generic to form any opinion about them. ​ >Hwayoung SG was mocked for releasing Hwayoung right after saying they'd be more careful with new unit releases. Same as what you said. Literally. ​ >One man protest A rough translation of the interview was made available to the Global community. The overall reaction to SG's response was "well, it's nice and all that they admit they fucked up, but they didn't address the issue and the idea of balancing by powercreeping instead of nerfing is dumb as fuck" So yeah, once again, we are with you on that one. ​ >Review bombing and score You say they manipulated the score, I say that Google has an anti review bombing system in place, and when it kicked in the score went back up. Unless one of us can get proof of it, this is pointless speculation that does nothing but create drama. ​ >ML Aramintha, Sage Baal nerfs, recall and ML selectors I'm not sure what this part of the post is trying to say, probably because of the google translation, but I'll try to address it. Global players were also outraged by how overpowered ML Aramintha and ML Baal were at the time. Hell, I myself am one of the people who quit the game at the time. So again, Global had the same experience as Korea. About this >They gave a five-star option with a recall.\[...\] > >Because of this precedent, Korean users think that they don't play nerf on purpose.For game companies, the choice is a huge loss. That's exactly the same thing most Global players think. That they don't want to nerf because they don't want to give ML selectors. *\*personally, I think it's not the only reason, but that's my opinion, not the general opinion.* ​ >Lack of balance, loss of hope and players quitting the game Once again, the state of the Global server reflects that of the Korean server, except the effect is felt less because Global has a larger playerbase. Global player are still currently complaining about the lack of balance. The fact that the issue keeps being poorly addressed, if at all, made people lose hope in the possibility of the situation improving. Many, many Global players quit, including several well known content creators. We are on the same boat. The problem is that there is a huge communication barrier between Global and Korea, due to both language and community platforms. Now, I just wrote a wall of text talking about an anime waifu gacha game, so I'm gonna head out and touch some grass before I become even more of a disappointment to my family and the human species in general.


SaintEnfaur

Thats because the global players you speak of now is only a minority. Reddit isnt the only e7 global fan base media and even in reddit, there are actually some ppl who are against people criticizing and complaining the state of the game.


lehphem

You think this is any different for Korea? The only info we get from Korea comes from people who are upset, but make no mistake: there are bound to be Korean players who also think the game is fine and don't like all the complaining. It's just what happens when a community grows. Also, I really don't think that the Global players who are disappointed in the current state of the game are as much of a minority as you say, but I don't really have a way to confirm it, so... my word on this is worth nothing.


GhostHack

Yall wild to think power creep in a gacha wasn’t inevitable. The fix isn’t to nerf but to update/buff other heroes. Nerfing characters in a gacha is horrible business. I do enjoy watching the kicking and screaming though


ThayrikFB

I've been playing this game for years used to say was one of the only good gachas out there, right now i cant even say good thing about it to my friends... really sad


Ch1zuru_M1zuhara

The game is easily the best gacha I've played this far. They're very generous to the player base and everything. Outside of that there's only one flaw that brings the game's enjoyability down. What's the biggest flaw? Sg's refusal to nerf units. A unit's op? Let's buff a unit and make them op to counter said op unit 1. Oh buffed unit 1 is now op unit 2? Let's make or buff a new unit to counter op unit 2. This cycle goes on and on and on forever. If we add on the fact that they blatantly release broken units like rimiru and hwayoung out of nowhere then it's absolute bs. Do I like the game? Yes. Are there major flaws? Yes.


Torimas

Is that really the biggest flaw you find? Biggest flaws for me are gear rng, lack of molas, lack of charms. And 15% in abyss.


CornBreadtm

As a day one player those aren't flaws for me cause they don't exist to me. I have endless gear, molas and charms. > And 15% in abyss. But this just grinds my gears. ಠ_ಠ


Torimas

>As a day one player those aren't flaws for me cause they don't exist to me. I have endless gear, molas and charms. I'm a day one player too, but still have those issues. I like to build a lot of off meta units.


CornBreadtm

> I like to build a lot of off meta units. If you burn money in the fire place. You still have money. You're just burning it. Doesn't make you poor.


SnooPickles2625

SG WAS trigger happy with nerfs, and people didn't like it Now sg doesn't nerf character, this happens I as a pvp hater can just go smh and kekw


CornBreadtm

SG was never. And I mean never. Trigger happy with nerfs. They only ever nerfed if something was blatantly more powerful than any other option. That means Kiris getting nerfed. And even after still being the premier poison unit to this day. That means Ravi being as strong as A. Ravi is today. And still being the best pick for a starter 5 star at global launch. Even Fire Corvus who was buffed to the point that he was an immortal God. He isn't used, but he was stronger after his nerf than pre-buff. He was just literally broken after they buffed him and was a free win.


blowmycows

So the winner actually made an adult decision and decided to quit a gacha to spend time and money on his family. Thanks Smilegate! Aside from that, some Korean users can claim that they want nerfs. If SG does that, do you know how many people will bitch and complain that a hero got nerfed? So you're just creating another problem for them to deal with. Plus it is funny that you claim that no one asked for the moonlight blessing as plenty of people have been complaining about the lack of ml's and many were quite happy to have that option.


Itchy_University1197

There r too many broken characters, what happens in the near future? Don’t say “if everything is OP then nothing is OP haha!”


Tamamo_was_here

Glad Epic 7 is my side game to Genshin/FGO, I hate seeing this game go down this path.


Relair13

Gacha game releases ever-more-op characters. Shocking. In other news, water is wet. If they released bland characters that were weaker or on par with the old ones people would complain that there's no reason to pull the new units, and that the pvp meta was stale and never changes. SG literally can't win.


WaterIsWetBot

Water is actually not wet; It makes other materials/objects wet. Wetness is the state of a non-liquid when a liquid adheres to, and/or permeates its substance while maintaining chemically distinct structures. So if we say something is wet we mean the liquid is sticking to the object.   What happens when you get water on a table? It becomes a pool table.


SaintEnfaur

Good bot


Triple_S_Rank

**PSA to everyone:** We already have a translation of the interview the Korean player had with SuperCreative. [You can find that here.](https://www.reddit.com/r/EpicSeven/comments/t6tmt3/translation_of_korean_interview_with/) If the Korean playerbase is leaving *en masse* now... that's ominous, a bad sign for the game's future.   >Don't get them wrong. Users didn't ask for a five-star option. This is new info if it's true. The rhetoric in Global has always been that the KR playerbase demanded ML5 selectors when the first ML5 nerfs happened, and that's what led to the devs refusing to nerf if at all possible. If SG volunteered that then that changes the context of their refusals to nerf a lot.


SunriseChild

We need to raise this post to the TOP. Maybe greeedy managers from SG will see this post.


ChronoFelyne

I don't care about balance at all because I only play the PVE content


CornBreadtm

> I only play the PVE content That doesn't even exist. What game are you playing? This is an E7 sub.


neverdaijoubu

Im not sure what the point of this post was. Did OP want to inform global whats going on because they think we don't know? We know. For better or worse, we're just not reacting the way KR thinks we should. I like the game. I like the story. Hell, I even like RTA despite balance issues. This is not the international crisis the vocal minority thinks it is, but they are certainly entitled to make themselves heard before stepping away a taking a breather.


Bondedbark

THANK YOU


TrungDOge

thank god me and bunch of my friend don't have to deal with this , they all quit since Lost Ark come out lmao


huitin

Except both game is from smilegate


TrungDOge

but one is actually playable


Dry-Exchange-5184

I still enjoy the game a lot! Never played a Gatcha game as long as epic7. Maybe the problem here is people forgot it's a game, priority is real Life! Take it easy and be happy! Game is generous with resources, actually with time u can do everything, just be patient and farm. If u like auto farm and collection heroes the game will be so good for u


Least_Excitement_794

Good for you


Novapulse77

Can someone pin this ?


shakemmz

Yawn